There are two things that need to happen to revitalize the Timbers:
- Gio's gotta go
- MP's gotta sell
The latter will not happen any time soon, and without that, I fear that the former will not happen either. I have never been an MP fan, and the sooner he cashes in his daddy's investment and goes somewhere else, the better off this club will be. The Timbers are stagnating, ownership doesn't care, and I don't see a clear pathway out of it until ownership changes.
As for Gio, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bringing a new coach in with this squad won't automatically turn the Timbers into a good team overnight; this roster has a ceiling, for sure. But a new coach, with new training methodologies and new ideas, might be the breath of fresh air that the Timbers need after six years of Gio, and might turn some of the desperately poor and hard to watch 4-1 losses into interesting 3-2 losses or draws, or maybe even the occasional win.
This off season is going to be the most important one in the Timbers' MLS existence. Lots of money coming off the books, so lots of non-DP cap space to be used. Ned's got a good reputation among his MLS peers, so let's see if they're right. I'm actually very excited about this offseason, it's a great chance for the team to basically reinvent itself. I hope they do.
Nailed it. Unlike plenty of folks in RCTID-land, I am a Gio fan. After all, this is a league focused on knock out tournaments which is his calling card. But it's pretty clear that his voice isn't hitting like it used to and the club needs a change.
But you really hit the nail on the head with your off season talk. I'm hopeful Ned gets the resources he needs to prove he can build a winner. MLS teams can build a contender in one off season so let's get er done!
Y Chara $1.5M total, $651K of which counted against the MLS salary budget
Blanco $1.38M total, significantly less than that in salary budget (details unknown, but he has been bought down from DP status)
Niezgoda $850K total, also significantly less in terms of salary budget
Mabiala $400K total, probably all of that will be available in salary budget
Asprilla $365K total, all of which will be available in salary budget
Boli, $450K total, unknown how much is bought down (and honestly I'd be OK with him re-signing for about that same money)
Right there, you've got probably somewhere around $2M (depending on how much of any player's salary is bought down, details at that level aren't really made public) in salary budget availability. Not to mention the about $5M in actual cash those deals represent.
So if you free up $2M+ from that $11M through the natural attrition of contract expiration, you've got a good chunk of change available to reform a squad in desperate need of help.
Should be a busy offseason. Ned better be planning well right now, because even if there isn't a change in the budget there should be plenty of dollars to work with. Lots of holes to fill, fortunately defense isn't one of them. Here is how I would prioritize the positions:
Wing - need to get an impact player here. Scoring is a problem, and we should have open positions here.
CDM - Chara isn't ageless, he just seems to be. We need someone to fill this role going forward, and with Ayala and Williamson coming off serious knee injuries its a position with little to no depth.
Striker - Boli seems okay, but then we are working with Mora and Nathan. That is a weak group. If we don't resign Boli than this jumps to #1!
Wing Back - I like Mosquera and Bravo, and Miller is fine as a backup but we probably need one more.
I think almost more importantly than "we need someone to fill this role", the Timbers need to evolve the team past where a destroyer CDM is vital to the success of the midfield. Chara's the last of a dying breed there, and finding a like for like replacement is probably not gonna be that realistic.
I'd be fine with the evolving playing style coming from a new coach, too, but either way, the Chara era of Timbers play should be winding down gracefully at this point and not frantically trying to be replicated with Much Lesser Chara just for the sake of it.
True, but I guess I wasn't clear. With the injuries to the midfield we simply need a good player there. Our current midfield is Chara (aging), Paredes, Ayala (knee) and Williamson (knee). Even if the ACL recovery is 9 months to see the field, I think we are looking at 14-20 months before a player is back to where they started so I'm not expecting a lot from Ayala/Williamson until the end of next season. If we keep Evander in the CAM role, we are going to need another CDM.
If we are changing the formation, we don't need a direct replacement. But we will need midfielders, and it would be great to have a high level player there. I'm totally on board with change, especially after seeing the Timbers play so far this year.
I’ve been one of the most vocal “Gio isn’t the problem” people in various comment sections around the Timber-sphere in the last couple years. Honestly, until recently I didn’t think he was a problem at all.
And then Moreno happened. And that happened on the heals of the Ivacic incident that got quietly sidestepped.
He has lost the locker room. It’s time for a change.
bad vibes aside... I can't wait to give Valeri the send off he deserves this weekend. I hope no one lets the current state of affairs with our club get in the way of that. Heck, I'm even gonna try to catch a glimpse of him training for a bit with the team on Friday as part of his 1 day contract so he can retire a Timber. Adios to a legend. (I'm fortunate enough to live next to the training facility and work close enough to go home for lunch, which is usually when they are out there.)
Yeah, I'm full on the Gio's got to go train. Yes, not a quick fix but at least it would bring some hope of a fresh, new approach to the game. Maybe get more out of the players than we've seen? I've been wondering lately if the Thorns could actually beat the Timbers. Not at all sure that couldn't happen.
I've had four season tickets since the Timbers joined MLS. Nine years in the TA and since then a couple of different reserved seat areas. I'm seriously questioning whether I want to continue to buy these tickets. It used to be fun and exciting to go to the games. Now, I just wonder how badly the team will lose each game. It's sad feeling that way, but I do....
Totally normal stuff. Our owner is in hiding. We shipped off a promising young striker because he had issues with the FO/coach. Our USMNT player has had issues with the coach and injuries. Our starting GK had a public spat with the coach. Now a promising young player wants out because of the coach and FO.
This is all great. No criticisms. We're like a big club now. /s for any who need it.
There's no comparison between the two teams...the Thorns will be fine when they get their stars back. The Timbers though are in a deep hole, and not just the standings. In a way, not making the playoffs would be the pretext for action, but for the fact that the owner would have to actually do something about the coaching and recruitment staff. He doesn't seem to be engaged. A clean sweep might be the only answer, but where's the new ownership group? I would put up my $1,000 and buy a share if I was convinced it would help the supporters find new owners who could run a clean and effective operation.
While I tend to agree on the Thorns, I have to admit I didn't think they would fall off this far. I should have known better given the number of Nats on our team, I will admit. In years past I recall us at least being competitive during the WC and OGs, even at times that bolstered some playoff position putting in some work while the stars were gone. It is fairly depressing to realize that we go from one of the best to one of the worst teams in the league on the basis of about 4 players.
Obviously the turf didn’t help, but, seriously, what did Horan have left to pull her back here? She’s BTDT. Hard to see how the softest lush practice pitch would have helped all that much unless she had a challenge in this league and personal ties to motivate her instead of the other way around…
Her family is still in the US. Europe is great, but living in different time zones can be problematic. My guess is she said it because others complain about it. If the Thorns are the world class franchise they claim to be, a grass field to practice on seems like a minimum
I think we're looking at two very different problems with a similar root.
It sure looks like Paulson is in a DGAF state. I'm not sure what he's doing, but from here it looks like "nothing". Both clubs are sort of running in Safe Mode.
The Timbers are a long-term problem. Poor scouting, bad use of long-term contracts, player development issues, and what now looks like a locker room gone sour.
The Thorns, OTOH, are a recent issue brought on by the unexpected departure of Rhian Wilkinson and the unexpected lack of managerial nous by LeBlanc.
The problems with the ownership seem to have prevented any sort of action to solve the issues facing either team.
And, frankly, we don't know if a sale will solve them, either!
A new Thorns owner could be tonic, or just same-old-same-old...or worse. Right now we have no idea if the Thorns are even in negotiation, and, if so, who the potential buyers are. We can hope...but hope is not a plan.
And, unfortunately, Paulson doesn't seem willing to sell the Timbers, period, and without pressure from the other owners? He can't be forced. Seems odd, since he doesn't seem engaged, either! But there it is.
So I guess what I'm saying is that at the moment there doesn't seem to be anything likely to change these clubs' issues anytime soon.
But know nothing beyond names and their c.v.s from other roles such as finance or management. And much of what we “know” is now over half a year old. Has anyone dropped out from that group? Anyone added? What are the internal roles of the members?
So I’d still say we have no real knowledge of the supposed prospective owners.
I've heard a rumor about an addition to one of the potential ownership groups but think I'd be betraying a confidence to say anything about it. It gives me some reason for optimism though.
But I concede that we don't "know" enough and the club and league are really lacking in transparency about all of this.
It could make sense that we might not hear news around the World Cup. Hopefully, we'll get some news in the offseason.
It is very hard to not see Paulson as dragging his feet on or even reneging on the whole thing though.
I prefer that a Thorns sale go to a group that might be able to acquire the Timbers as well at some future point. I'm a believer in two teams, one club, with the caveat that the Thorns should have their own staff, freaking website, etc. and actually be treated like their own team. I know one possible ownership group is pressing for that potential outcome, which might draw things out.
I suspect that the biggest issue is the lease. If I was a prospective buyer I’d haaaaate to have my new inamorata’s ex holding the lease on our apartment. But I don’t see an easy way out of the current lease…plus there’s staffing, concessions, maintenance…
What I don’t get is why the big secret? All it’d take would be a presser every couple of weeks; “We’re discussing contracts and facilities, and talks are moving along, thanks.”
My guess is that these things work better in silence, because you don't have to deal with the headaches that come from a million questions being lobbed at you. Neither side wants to deal with the problem of hammering out the details to find that little cup-holder on the seats fouls it all up. It also allows either side to walk away without serious repercussions. I'm hopeful that once the silence is broken the deal is finalized in weeks or even days.
The lease doesn’t apply to the sale of the Thorns though. Great point with respect to the Timbers. I know they have to negotiate access to the stadium for the Thorns though. Paulson has pinky-sweared that he won’t be a jerk but, especially when grass is put in, he can start hosting fifa matches to make up some lost Thorns and other revenue, which could interfere with NWSL matches.
Office and practice space are considerations too.
But yeah, I don’t know what the secrecy is about, if it’s the potential buyers, Peregrine, the league.
I also have to remind myself that Peregrine Sports isn’t just the Paulson family. I don’t know who are how many but I’ve reliably heard that there are other investors.
The lease is massive to the Thorns sale. It doesn't apply to the TIMBERS, if they were up for sale.
But the problem for the Thorns is exactly as you lay it out; scheduling, concessions, staffing, practice-and-playing-time. Right now Peregrine has a massive interest in ensuring that the two teams can share the venue with minimal head-butting. After a sale? Not so much!
The ideal situation for new Thorns owners would be a three-way deal between Peregrine, whatever-their-outfit-is-called, and MAC/Portland that would spell out in detail who gets what when, how much, how conflicts are resolved, etc. I can see how that would be crazy difficult to hammer out, and the many stop points in there.
There isn’t sufficient pressure on Paulson to sell the Timbers because we didn’t care and try hard enough. Too many supporters made excuses or ignored what was going on with Thorns, or didn’t care. I gave up protesting and I was more hardcore than many. Paulson isn’t going to think about selling the Timbers until expansion is done, after the next World Cup cycle, and maybe his dad dies. Or, perhaps if he gets a real shot at MLB or buying the Blazers. His inheritance is the Timbers. He’s got to get as much out of it as he can before it levels off a bit. His pride fucks with him too.
My father always said, “You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.”
Those on the pitch are second and third choices. Gio Out won't solve this. He is probably doing a good job given what he has to work with and the competition he is facing.
I don't know what is going on on the organization - and you don't either unless you are a MP drinking buddy or are the kit guy on the locker room. To say “the ownership doesn't care” or MP is in a DGAF state” is just stuff you are projecting or making up.
99% of all discussion about sports is conjecture. That's the fun of it. If we could only talk about what we knew concretely, and only in terms of how concretely we knew it, this and every other sports website would be endless comments that "the score was 0-0" "this player scored a goal in the game" and other recitations of fact.
If you don't want to take part in the conjecture, that's fine, but in 2023 you can't really be surprised or upset that people on the internet do it, can you?
"Gio Out won't solve this. He is probably doing a good job given what he has to work with and the competition he is facing."
How do you know Gio Out won't solve for even somewhat improving the play of those second or third choices though? You don't, and you told us not to project or make stuff up, so either practice what you preach or join in the fun.
Much as the clubs are in two very different places, the problems are largely the same:
**The players simply aren't good enough.**
In the case of the Timbers, they took a team that missed the playoffs, traded their 3rd best center back (who has looked decidedly mediocre at his new club too), and brought in a high-priced facilitator (to facilitate what?). I actually kinda like the starting back four and keeper, but there's no depth there and the farther you go up the field the more dire it gets. The 6/8 spots are okay even given the injury woes but the front four have been mostly useless all season. It's hard to even know what we have in Evander when he's surrounded by this much incompetence. Moreno, Asprilla, and Loria are turnover machines. It's hard to play pleasing soccer with *any* of those in your lineup, let alone all three; you simply can't hold the ball long enough to build anything before one of them screws up and gives it away. And the situation at the 9 goes without saying; one guy who can occasionally make something happen if he gets some service and others who probably shouldn't be on the team at all. We can talk about the issues with the manager (and I will below), but I don't think there's a coach in the world who could turn this bunch into a winning team at this level.
As for the Thorns, the obvious issue is that their top players are all out for WWC. Now, we can point to the FO's inability to supplement the top end players with enough depth (and I will), but the players on the field also need to be better. Weaver has been great, but she can't do it alone. Vasconcelos has been a pleasant surprise this season, but only because expectations were so low; she's a fine depth piece, but probably shouldn't be starting at this level, let alone being the second best front line player. Everyone else (D'Aquila, Betfort, Beckman, etc.) has been mostly awful with perhaps a few glimpses of promise, but even that feels charitable. Further back, Moultrie has been up and down, which is to be expected from her age, but also she suffers from her teammates' complete inability to put themselves in dangerous positions or do anything useful when she gets them the ball (I see a lot of similarities between her frustrations and Evander's for the Timbers). Sam has been great (other than a pretty bad stretch I thought she had around when she got left off the USWNT), but she's being asked to do too much and then even she can get caught out of position. The back line has been inconsistent; individually I think they've been fine but the leadership and cohesiveness just isn't there. Kling has been bad at times. Reyes got off to rough start, but I think she' been mostly solid. Bixby has been all over the place; love her when she's locked in, but that hasn't been nearly often enough this season.
**The managers look lost and out of ideas**
In the case of the Timbers, I think this is mostly a function of the aforementioned players not being good enough. Pep Guardiola couldn't get this team to the playoffs. That said, Gio seems to have lost the locker room and, while I don't think most of the locker room is worth keeping anyway, you can't trade everyone and the players who are reacting badly to their own team ineptitude are clearly starting to spoil the whole locker room (Eryk, Santi, and Evander have been notable from the outside, but I suspect there are many others inside). So yes, Gio has to go. I see no reason to rush it since this team is going nowhere, but Gio has to have his name called on Black Monday if not sooner. But let's not pretend that's going to fix anything. I would absolutely bet anybody who wants a piece that Gio gets to 10 wins at his next stop in fewer games than the Timbers do after they let him go.
As for the Thorns, it's hard to be this tough on Norris so early in his coaching career. Like Gio, he doesn't really have a lot to work with right now. That said, he was making some questionable moves before the WWC and is clearly not adapting particularly well to not having his stars. Though I'm not sure Parsons did dramatically better four years ago. I'm not sure it's time to pull the cord on Norris's young career, but he's clearly part of the problem at the moment, not the solution.
**The front office has been MIA for both clubs**
Hard to know what's going on behind the scenes with the FO, but clearly there's been a bunch of upheaval and the only person we can really blame (who's still around anyway) is Paulson (Merritt; as far as we know, daddy's checks are still clearing). Ned has been doing two jobs and we have no real way to know if he's good at either, since he hasn't exactly been set up to succeed. Karina hasn't done much of note to improve her club either, but with the pending sale of the club it's hard to know if she's actually been given any funds or a mandate to improve the club, or if her hands are tied.
We can say for sure the FO for both clubs are a mess, but given how dependent they are on leadership (and money) from the top I can't really in good conscience place blame on anyone in particular. Well, except for one person. To me, this all comes down on MP. Aside from a couple injuries (and I guess NWSL playing through times when players are out for WWC, but that seems like something that should just be factored in), all of both clubs' problems can be traced fairly directly to MP himself. I could speculate that he's petulantly hanging both teams out to dry because he's so butt-hurt that we don't love him enough, but maybe he's just incompetent. Or maybe he needed his buddy Gavin to remind him to get shit done. It doesn't really matter. In the end, this all comes down to him. Obviously the Thorns will be sold sooner rather than later (after the season, I assume at this point), but MP needs to unload the Timbers too. He probably won't, in which case he needs to get serious about actually owning the club again. We'll see...
I call bullshit on this statement: "Pep Guardiola couldn't get this team to the playoffs" - we've all seen this team pull it together in spurts. 20 minutes here, 10 minutes there. What I see is that there is no real "team" on a regular basis. On the occasion it shows up I feel we can go toe-to-toe with any MLS team.
It's like the Thorns are a listing ship in the middle of the sea. So many points lost we'll be lucky to get into any playoffs at the end of season. Sure, there have been USWNT players gone for stretches of time (She Believes crap, Olympics, World Cup) but the players coming off the bench always helped the Thorns stay in the hunt. Frankly at this point my family is wondering if season tickets we've invested in are worth keeping. Losing isn't fun and we don't see a lot of hope in resurrecting a once great team destroyed by mismanagement. This saddens us as we've loved the Thorns since their formation was announced in 2012/2013.
Not make the playoffs? They remain in second place in the table, and there are only Challenge Cup matches left w/o all or at least part of the missing internationals. If the US, Canada, Japan, or Costa Rica get to the finals __and_ are slow to return (like for some "victory tour" cash grab), those players might miss another league match.
Yes, the usual Thorns advantage of crazy depth isn't there right now, based on the inability of a lot of players to step up in the last three games, but missing the playoffs entirely would be a stretch, I'd say.
The Thorns are literally in second place in a league where half the teams make the playoffs. They are one point off first. Their next home game is against the team in first.
It's not as bad as it looks. There are some glaring issues but overall it is still a team capable of competing for the shield and another championship.
Hadn’t seen that article about Santi missing practice until now.
Gio’s response—completely denying there’s a problem or that Santi is even unhappy—is just shocking. To completely negate a reported piece? That feels… weird at best and desperate at worst? Thoughts? Feelings? Emotions? What’s everyone else thinking about that response?
Not only did he miss training, but he’s still in Columbia right now and will not be at the game tonight. I’m at the point where I’d be surprised if we see him in a Timbers shirt again... and that breaks my heart
and yeah, if in a short period of time the Timbers part ways with Ebobisse and Moreno, largely due to differences of opinion about playing style/position/time (I'd include Tuiloma in there but his sale was more budgetary, which is a separate set of issues), at some point fingers have to be pointed at the coach/coaching setup, right?
Ebobisse was pretty much about budget too. He wanted to go to Europe and we thought we could make that happen for him, so his salary was structured under that assumption. Covid-19 borked that. In Gio’s defense, he was unhappy about trading him. Jebo was being played out of position though. That’s what this team does to players. He was struggling early on, so rather than have patience and try to develop him (which we suck at, especially at forward), we signed Niezgoda. Then we had to play Niezgoda up top because pride and how much money we sunk into him. And with everything else, Jebo was still better out of position as a winger than other options.
Ned hasn’t impressed me yet beyond his reputation but he’s still saddled with a bunch of Wilkinson and Paulson created problems.
I’ve always liked Gio as a person, while questioning his tactics, roster selections, substitutions, etc. He always got enough wins that I could ignore my concerns about his nonsensical comments in the press and occasional bed shitting. I’ve been on the Gio Out train for months now but the latest really clinches it. Regardless of whether I trust the guy anymore or think he’s actually as pleasant as he comes across, he appears to have lost the locker room, and he doesn’t have a string of good results to support him.
We lose against Colorado tonight, I hope he’s gone tomorrow.
But. I don’t see why any self respecting manager would take a job for either club in Portland now. Paulson wrecked both PTFCs and Heather Davis hasn’t shown she knows where she is.
"Ned hasn’t impressed me yet beyond his reputation but he’s still saddled with a bunch of Wilkinson and Paulson created problems."
Yeah, that's why I think this off season is crucial - Ned hasn't really had a chance to do his own thing, while he was dealing with untangling the mess that GW left behind (and it kind of can't be understated how messed up this roster and salary structure was when GW was forced out). Now he can, and I hope he makes the most of it.
I'll own up to having been generally impressed with GW as a dealmaker. I don't think his scouting was good and he's a dishonest, garbage person. But I thought he was shrewd about navigating the rules and juggling finances. He made enough unpopular decisions that I don't really buy that fan pressure influenced him directly, but I could see him being overruled by Paulson's petulance. But the state of things now really undermines my assessment of him even with respect to the financial decisions.
That said, regardless of how creative he was with signings, we wasted so many prospects by not properly scouting players and/or fielding them out of position, or never really giving them opportunities. We crashed the potential or stalled the progression of a number of players because we didn't see what we had or properly utilize it. That isn't to say all of that is GW's fault, but the coaches were chosen by him and Paulson, answered to them, and had to work within their constraints.
I think GW was good at juggling finances in the short term. Unfortunately, contracts aren't short-term, and a lot of the decisions GW made were for the now at the expense of the later.
GW wasn't really one to care about what the salary budget looked like three years from now; he was trying to optimize a roster for winning now. Which works great as an "all in" strategy if you get good players that can, you know, win now. But he couldn't do that. And so he left behind a big ol' mess that Ned is in the midst of cleaning up.
Except Ned doesn’t have his “own thing.” He’s on the latest iteration of a new position. IDK why so many folks think that Ned can solve these problems. Player quality has dropped across his entire tenure in the FO. He’s been the guy for what, five or six years now. And 2023 Timbers are what he has to show for it.
I don't think it's fair to say that Ned has been "the guy" for five or six years. GW was "the guy" since pre-MLS, and it didn't really seem, to my untrained outside eye, that GW welcomed a lot of assistance.
I don't think Ned's a miracle worker. I do think that now that the job is solely his, and now that he is getting out from under the mess GW made of both the salary budget and the playing roster, I am willing to give him a window or two to do things solely his way.
Nobody's bulletproof, and I will criticize Ned plenty where and when it's warranted, but I honestly don't think we've seen Ned do things on his own as GM for enough time to assume he can't do the job.
Technicality, I know, but: Gio *publicly stated* that he was unhappy about trading him. He has also publicly stated that everything is fine with Moreno and he toooootally hasn’t lost the locker room at all.
Yeah, Gio doesn't have much credibility at this point, but at the time it would be hard to see an upside for him throwing Wilkinson under the bus over Jebo. However, Wilkinson knew plenty of supporters already hated him, so why not take the heat? But Wilkinson also made up stories about his wife being harassed at the grocery store to get supporters to take it easier on him. Wilkinson doesn't seem like a "take one for the team" type. It's also possible that Gio just speaks nonsense without really thinking and that whatever he says doesn't really mean much. Why attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence?
“After requesting a transfer and not showing up to training this week, Santiago Moreno is still in Colombia, per a source. He did not accompany the Timbers for their match tonight in Colorado.”
New article about the Moreno situation on OregonLive, and Moreno is now saying he never asked to be moved and made a mistake by missing extra days this past week. My best guess is that his agent told him that taking the steps he did makes it harder for the Timbers to move him, and to walk back the comments and apologize for the actions. I'll bet he still wants to move on from the Timbers, but realizes that his actions make him less desirable to other teams. At this point, I'm expecting to see him moved before the start of next season. It's unfortunate, as I really like his game, and think that he can develop into a really good player with some refinement. Just another position the team will likely need to fill in the coming months.
There are two things that need to happen to revitalize the Timbers:
- Gio's gotta go
- MP's gotta sell
The latter will not happen any time soon, and without that, I fear that the former will not happen either. I have never been an MP fan, and the sooner he cashes in his daddy's investment and goes somewhere else, the better off this club will be. The Timbers are stagnating, ownership doesn't care, and I don't see a clear pathway out of it until ownership changes.
As for Gio, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bringing a new coach in with this squad won't automatically turn the Timbers into a good team overnight; this roster has a ceiling, for sure. But a new coach, with new training methodologies and new ideas, might be the breath of fresh air that the Timbers need after six years of Gio, and might turn some of the desperately poor and hard to watch 4-1 losses into interesting 3-2 losses or draws, or maybe even the occasional win.
This off season is going to be the most important one in the Timbers' MLS existence. Lots of money coming off the books, so lots of non-DP cap space to be used. Ned's got a good reputation among his MLS peers, so let's see if they're right. I'm actually very excited about this offseason, it's a great chance for the team to basically reinvent itself. I hope they do.
That only works if Gio goes
Nailed it. Unlike plenty of folks in RCTID-land, I am a Gio fan. After all, this is a league focused on knock out tournaments which is his calling card. But it's pretty clear that his voice isn't hitting like it used to and the club needs a change.
But you really hit the nail on the head with your off season talk. I'm hopeful Ned gets the resources he needs to prove he can build a winner. MLS teams can build a contender in one off season so let's get er done!
"I'm hopeful Ned gets the resources he needs"
These are the salaries coming off the books at the end of 2023 (from https://www.capology.com/club/portland-timbers/salaries/2023/):
Y Chara $1.5M total, $651K of which counted against the MLS salary budget
Blanco $1.38M total, significantly less than that in salary budget (details unknown, but he has been bought down from DP status)
Niezgoda $850K total, also significantly less in terms of salary budget
Mabiala $400K total, probably all of that will be available in salary budget
Asprilla $365K total, all of which will be available in salary budget
Boli, $450K total, unknown how much is bought down (and honestly I'd be OK with him re-signing for about that same money)
Right there, you've got probably somewhere around $2M (depending on how much of any player's salary is bought down, details at that level aren't really made public) in salary budget availability. Not to mention the about $5M in actual cash those deals represent.
Per MLS (https://mlssoccer.com/news/heres-how-mls-player-compensation-will-grow-through-2024-new-cba), the salary budget for 2024 is $6.425M/team. The base "salary budget" is what people generally refer to as the "salary cap", but it's not, because in addition to that, teams get about $3M in GAM and $2.1M in TAM, for a total available budget of about $11.6M.
So if you free up $2M+ from that $11M through the natural attrition of contract expiration, you've got a good chunk of change available to reform a squad in desperate need of help.
Should be a busy offseason. Ned better be planning well right now, because even if there isn't a change in the budget there should be plenty of dollars to work with. Lots of holes to fill, fortunately defense isn't one of them. Here is how I would prioritize the positions:
Wing - need to get an impact player here. Scoring is a problem, and we should have open positions here.
CDM - Chara isn't ageless, he just seems to be. We need someone to fill this role going forward, and with Ayala and Williamson coming off serious knee injuries its a position with little to no depth.
Striker - Boli seems okay, but then we are working with Mora and Nathan. That is a weak group. If we don't resign Boli than this jumps to #1!
Wing Back - I like Mosquera and Bravo, and Miller is fine as a backup but we probably need one more.
Just my thoughts.
I think almost more importantly than "we need someone to fill this role", the Timbers need to evolve the team past where a destroyer CDM is vital to the success of the midfield. Chara's the last of a dying breed there, and finding a like for like replacement is probably not gonna be that realistic.
I'd be fine with the evolving playing style coming from a new coach, too, but either way, the Chara era of Timbers play should be winding down gracefully at this point and not frantically trying to be replicated with Much Lesser Chara just for the sake of it.
True, but I guess I wasn't clear. With the injuries to the midfield we simply need a good player there. Our current midfield is Chara (aging), Paredes, Ayala (knee) and Williamson (knee). Even if the ACL recovery is 9 months to see the field, I think we are looking at 14-20 months before a player is back to where they started so I'm not expecting a lot from Ayala/Williamson until the end of next season. If we keep Evander in the CAM role, we are going to need another CDM.
If we are changing the formation, we don't need a direct replacement. But we will need midfielders, and it would be great to have a high level player there. I'm totally on board with change, especially after seeing the Timbers play so far this year.
I’ve been one of the most vocal “Gio isn’t the problem” people in various comment sections around the Timber-sphere in the last couple years. Honestly, until recently I didn’t think he was a problem at all.
And then Moreno happened. And that happened on the heals of the Ivacic incident that got quietly sidestepped.
He has lost the locker room. It’s time for a change.
What is the Ivacic full story? I'm having trouble finding much info on that one.
High level mentions of it here:
https://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/2023/03/amid-injuries-goalkeeper-controversy-portland-timbers-play-to-scoreless-draw-vs-la-galaxy.html
Ivacic's shot fired here:
https://twitter.com/RyanTClarke/status/1639730692459495424
Thanks. Love this stuff.
bad vibes aside... I can't wait to give Valeri the send off he deserves this weekend. I hope no one lets the current state of affairs with our club get in the way of that. Heck, I'm even gonna try to catch a glimpse of him training for a bit with the team on Friday as part of his 1 day contract so he can retire a Timber. Adios to a legend. (I'm fortunate enough to live next to the training facility and work close enough to go home for lunch, which is usually when they are out there.)
100%. Stoked to see him Saturday night!!!
Is this event happening just before kick off?
Advertised as starting at 7.15. I'd plan on being in by 7 just to be safe.
Yeah, I'm full on the Gio's got to go train. Yes, not a quick fix but at least it would bring some hope of a fresh, new approach to the game. Maybe get more out of the players than we've seen? I've been wondering lately if the Thorns could actually beat the Timbers. Not at all sure that couldn't happen.
I've had four season tickets since the Timbers joined MLS. Nine years in the TA and since then a couple of different reserved seat areas. I'm seriously questioning whether I want to continue to buy these tickets. It used to be fun and exciting to go to the games. Now, I just wonder how badly the team will lose each game. It's sad feeling that way, but I do....
Totally normal stuff. Our owner is in hiding. We shipped off a promising young striker because he had issues with the FO/coach. Our USMNT player has had issues with the coach and injuries. Our starting GK had a public spat with the coach. Now a promising young player wants out because of the coach and FO.
This is all great. No criticisms. We're like a big club now. /s for any who need it.
There's no comparison between the two teams...the Thorns will be fine when they get their stars back. The Timbers though are in a deep hole, and not just the standings. In a way, not making the playoffs would be the pretext for action, but for the fact that the owner would have to actually do something about the coaching and recruitment staff. He doesn't seem to be engaged. A clean sweep might be the only answer, but where's the new ownership group? I would put up my $1,000 and buy a share if I was convinced it would help the supporters find new owners who could run a clean and effective operation.
While I tend to agree on the Thorns, I have to admit I didn't think they would fall off this far. I should have known better given the number of Nats on our team, I will admit. In years past I recall us at least being competitive during the WC and OGs, even at times that bolstered some playoff position putting in some work while the stars were gone. It is fairly depressing to realize that we go from one of the best to one of the worst teams in the league on the basis of about 4 players.
Lindsey Horan shares her views of training facilities for Portland Thorns FC and how they affected her physically. (Around 4 min mark)
WWC interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_bcmePCOQ
Paulson deciding not to make the grass fields available to the Thorns has cost us one great player. I’d prefer it not to cost us others. Sell the team
Obviously the turf didn’t help, but, seriously, what did Horan have left to pull her back here? She’s BTDT. Hard to see how the softest lush practice pitch would have helped all that much unless she had a challenge in this league and personal ties to motivate her instead of the other way around…
Her family is still in the US. Europe is great, but living in different time zones can be problematic. My guess is she said it because others complain about it. If the Thorns are the world class franchise they claim to be, a grass field to practice on seems like a minimum
Interview with Norris here:
https://richlaverty.substack.com/p/the-big-interview-portland-thorns?nthPub=61
I think we're looking at two very different problems with a similar root.
It sure looks like Paulson is in a DGAF state. I'm not sure what he's doing, but from here it looks like "nothing". Both clubs are sort of running in Safe Mode.
The Timbers are a long-term problem. Poor scouting, bad use of long-term contracts, player development issues, and what now looks like a locker room gone sour.
The Thorns, OTOH, are a recent issue brought on by the unexpected departure of Rhian Wilkinson and the unexpected lack of managerial nous by LeBlanc.
The problems with the ownership seem to have prevented any sort of action to solve the issues facing either team.
And, frankly, we don't know if a sale will solve them, either!
A new Thorns owner could be tonic, or just same-old-same-old...or worse. Right now we have no idea if the Thorns are even in negotiation, and, if so, who the potential buyers are. We can hope...but hope is not a plan.
And, unfortunately, Paulson doesn't seem willing to sell the Timbers, period, and without pressure from the other owners? He can't be forced. Seems odd, since he doesn't seem engaged, either! But there it is.
So I guess what I'm saying is that at the moment there doesn't seem to be anything likely to change these clubs' issues anytime soon.
I sure hope I'm wrong.
We do know who some of the potential Thorns buyers are.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2022/10/would-be-buyers-line-up-to-purchase-portland-timbers-thorns-from-embattled-owner-merritt-paulson.html
But know nothing beyond names and their c.v.s from other roles such as finance or management. And much of what we “know” is now over half a year old. Has anyone dropped out from that group? Anyone added? What are the internal roles of the members?
So I’d still say we have no real knowledge of the supposed prospective owners.
I've heard a rumor about an addition to one of the potential ownership groups but think I'd be betraying a confidence to say anything about it. It gives me some reason for optimism though.
This is a bit more recent:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland-thorns/2023/03/nwsl-commissioner-jessica-berman-upcoming-sale-of-portland-thorns-in-advanced-stages.html
But I concede that we don't "know" enough and the club and league are really lacking in transparency about all of this.
It could make sense that we might not hear news around the World Cup. Hopefully, we'll get some news in the offseason.
It is very hard to not see Paulson as dragging his feet on or even reneging on the whole thing though.
I prefer that a Thorns sale go to a group that might be able to acquire the Timbers as well at some future point. I'm a believer in two teams, one club, with the caveat that the Thorns should have their own staff, freaking website, etc. and actually be treated like their own team. I know one possible ownership group is pressing for that potential outcome, which might draw things out.
I suspect that the biggest issue is the lease. If I was a prospective buyer I’d haaaaate to have my new inamorata’s ex holding the lease on our apartment. But I don’t see an easy way out of the current lease…plus there’s staffing, concessions, maintenance…
What I don’t get is why the big secret? All it’d take would be a presser every couple of weeks; “We’re discussing contracts and facilities, and talks are moving along, thanks.”
My guess is that these things work better in silence, because you don't have to deal with the headaches that come from a million questions being lobbed at you. Neither side wants to deal with the problem of hammering out the details to find that little cup-holder on the seats fouls it all up. It also allows either side to walk away without serious repercussions. I'm hopeful that once the silence is broken the deal is finalized in weeks or even days.
Or months. Or, maybe not? It's impossible to tell at this point.
The lease doesn’t apply to the sale of the Thorns though. Great point with respect to the Timbers. I know they have to negotiate access to the stadium for the Thorns though. Paulson has pinky-sweared that he won’t be a jerk but, especially when grass is put in, he can start hosting fifa matches to make up some lost Thorns and other revenue, which could interfere with NWSL matches.
Office and practice space are considerations too.
But yeah, I don’t know what the secrecy is about, if it’s the potential buyers, Peregrine, the league.
I also have to remind myself that Peregrine Sports isn’t just the Paulson family. I don’t know who are how many but I’ve reliably heard that there are other investors.
Whuuuu..?
The lease is massive to the Thorns sale. It doesn't apply to the TIMBERS, if they were up for sale.
But the problem for the Thorns is exactly as you lay it out; scheduling, concessions, staffing, practice-and-playing-time. Right now Peregrine has a massive interest in ensuring that the two teams can share the venue with minimal head-butting. After a sale? Not so much!
The ideal situation for new Thorns owners would be a three-way deal between Peregrine, whatever-their-outfit-is-called, and MAC/Portland that would spell out in detail who gets what when, how much, how conflicts are resolved, etc. I can see how that would be crazy difficult to hammer out, and the many stop points in there.
There isn’t sufficient pressure on Paulson to sell the Timbers because we didn’t care and try hard enough. Too many supporters made excuses or ignored what was going on with Thorns, or didn’t care. I gave up protesting and I was more hardcore than many. Paulson isn’t going to think about selling the Timbers until expansion is done, after the next World Cup cycle, and maybe his dad dies. Or, perhaps if he gets a real shot at MLB or buying the Blazers. His inheritance is the Timbers. He’s got to get as much out of it as he can before it levels off a bit. His pride fucks with him too.
If I had an asset which increased in value 50m per annum I'd probably hang on to it as well, tbh.
My father always said, “You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.”
Those on the pitch are second and third choices. Gio Out won't solve this. He is probably doing a good job given what he has to work with and the competition he is facing.
I don't know what is going on on the organization - and you don't either unless you are a MP drinking buddy or are the kit guy on the locker room. To say “the ownership doesn't care” or MP is in a DGAF state” is just stuff you are projecting or making up.
99% of all discussion about sports is conjecture. That's the fun of it. If we could only talk about what we knew concretely, and only in terms of how concretely we knew it, this and every other sports website would be endless comments that "the score was 0-0" "this player scored a goal in the game" and other recitations of fact.
If you don't want to take part in the conjecture, that's fine, but in 2023 you can't really be surprised or upset that people on the internet do it, can you?
"Gio Out won't solve this. He is probably doing a good job given what he has to work with and the competition he is facing."
How do you know Gio Out won't solve for even somewhat improving the play of those second or third choices though? You don't, and you told us not to project or make stuff up, so either practice what you preach or join in the fun.
Much as the clubs are in two very different places, the problems are largely the same:
**The players simply aren't good enough.**
In the case of the Timbers, they took a team that missed the playoffs, traded their 3rd best center back (who has looked decidedly mediocre at his new club too), and brought in a high-priced facilitator (to facilitate what?). I actually kinda like the starting back four and keeper, but there's no depth there and the farther you go up the field the more dire it gets. The 6/8 spots are okay even given the injury woes but the front four have been mostly useless all season. It's hard to even know what we have in Evander when he's surrounded by this much incompetence. Moreno, Asprilla, and Loria are turnover machines. It's hard to play pleasing soccer with *any* of those in your lineup, let alone all three; you simply can't hold the ball long enough to build anything before one of them screws up and gives it away. And the situation at the 9 goes without saying; one guy who can occasionally make something happen if he gets some service and others who probably shouldn't be on the team at all. We can talk about the issues with the manager (and I will below), but I don't think there's a coach in the world who could turn this bunch into a winning team at this level.
As for the Thorns, the obvious issue is that their top players are all out for WWC. Now, we can point to the FO's inability to supplement the top end players with enough depth (and I will), but the players on the field also need to be better. Weaver has been great, but she can't do it alone. Vasconcelos has been a pleasant surprise this season, but only because expectations were so low; she's a fine depth piece, but probably shouldn't be starting at this level, let alone being the second best front line player. Everyone else (D'Aquila, Betfort, Beckman, etc.) has been mostly awful with perhaps a few glimpses of promise, but even that feels charitable. Further back, Moultrie has been up and down, which is to be expected from her age, but also she suffers from her teammates' complete inability to put themselves in dangerous positions or do anything useful when she gets them the ball (I see a lot of similarities between her frustrations and Evander's for the Timbers). Sam has been great (other than a pretty bad stretch I thought she had around when she got left off the USWNT), but she's being asked to do too much and then even she can get caught out of position. The back line has been inconsistent; individually I think they've been fine but the leadership and cohesiveness just isn't there. Kling has been bad at times. Reyes got off to rough start, but I think she' been mostly solid. Bixby has been all over the place; love her when she's locked in, but that hasn't been nearly often enough this season.
**The managers look lost and out of ideas**
In the case of the Timbers, I think this is mostly a function of the aforementioned players not being good enough. Pep Guardiola couldn't get this team to the playoffs. That said, Gio seems to have lost the locker room and, while I don't think most of the locker room is worth keeping anyway, you can't trade everyone and the players who are reacting badly to their own team ineptitude are clearly starting to spoil the whole locker room (Eryk, Santi, and Evander have been notable from the outside, but I suspect there are many others inside). So yes, Gio has to go. I see no reason to rush it since this team is going nowhere, but Gio has to have his name called on Black Monday if not sooner. But let's not pretend that's going to fix anything. I would absolutely bet anybody who wants a piece that Gio gets to 10 wins at his next stop in fewer games than the Timbers do after they let him go.
As for the Thorns, it's hard to be this tough on Norris so early in his coaching career. Like Gio, he doesn't really have a lot to work with right now. That said, he was making some questionable moves before the WWC and is clearly not adapting particularly well to not having his stars. Though I'm not sure Parsons did dramatically better four years ago. I'm not sure it's time to pull the cord on Norris's young career, but he's clearly part of the problem at the moment, not the solution.
**The front office has been MIA for both clubs**
Hard to know what's going on behind the scenes with the FO, but clearly there's been a bunch of upheaval and the only person we can really blame (who's still around anyway) is Paulson (Merritt; as far as we know, daddy's checks are still clearing). Ned has been doing two jobs and we have no real way to know if he's good at either, since he hasn't exactly been set up to succeed. Karina hasn't done much of note to improve her club either, but with the pending sale of the club it's hard to know if she's actually been given any funds or a mandate to improve the club, or if her hands are tied.
We can say for sure the FO for both clubs are a mess, but given how dependent they are on leadership (and money) from the top I can't really in good conscience place blame on anyone in particular. Well, except for one person. To me, this all comes down on MP. Aside from a couple injuries (and I guess NWSL playing through times when players are out for WWC, but that seems like something that should just be factored in), all of both clubs' problems can be traced fairly directly to MP himself. I could speculate that he's petulantly hanging both teams out to dry because he's so butt-hurt that we don't love him enough, but maybe he's just incompetent. Or maybe he needed his buddy Gavin to remind him to get shit done. It doesn't really matter. In the end, this all comes down to him. Obviously the Thorns will be sold sooner rather than later (after the season, I assume at this point), but MP needs to unload the Timbers too. He probably won't, in which case he needs to get serious about actually owning the club again. We'll see...
I call bullshit on this statement: "Pep Guardiola couldn't get this team to the playoffs" - we've all seen this team pull it together in spurts. 20 minutes here, 10 minutes there. What I see is that there is no real "team" on a regular basis. On the occasion it shows up I feel we can go toe-to-toe with any MLS team.
It's like the Thorns are a listing ship in the middle of the sea. So many points lost we'll be lucky to get into any playoffs at the end of season. Sure, there have been USWNT players gone for stretches of time (She Believes crap, Olympics, World Cup) but the players coming off the bench always helped the Thorns stay in the hunt. Frankly at this point my family is wondering if season tickets we've invested in are worth keeping. Losing isn't fun and we don't see a lot of hope in resurrecting a once great team destroyed by mismanagement. This saddens us as we've loved the Thorns since their formation was announced in 2012/2013.
Not make the playoffs? They remain in second place in the table, and there are only Challenge Cup matches left w/o all or at least part of the missing internationals. If the US, Canada, Japan, or Costa Rica get to the finals __and_ are slow to return (like for some "victory tour" cash grab), those players might miss another league match.
Yes, the usual Thorns advantage of crazy depth isn't there right now, based on the inability of a lot of players to step up in the last three games, but missing the playoffs entirely would be a stretch, I'd say.
The Thorns are literally in second place in a league where half the teams make the playoffs. They are one point off first. Their next home game is against the team in first.
It's not as bad as it looks. There are some glaring issues but overall it is still a team capable of competing for the shield and another championship.
Hadn’t seen that article about Santi missing practice until now.
Gio’s response—completely denying there’s a problem or that Santi is even unhappy—is just shocking. To completely negate a reported piece? That feels… weird at best and desperate at worst? Thoughts? Feelings? Emotions? What’s everyone else thinking about that response?
Not only did he miss training, but he’s still in Columbia right now and will not be at the game tonight. I’m at the point where I’d be surprised if we see him in a Timbers shirt again... and that breaks my heart
*Colombia
and yeah, if in a short period of time the Timbers part ways with Ebobisse and Moreno, largely due to differences of opinion about playing style/position/time (I'd include Tuiloma in there but his sale was more budgetary, which is a separate set of issues), at some point fingers have to be pointed at the coach/coaching setup, right?
Ebobisse was pretty much about budget too. He wanted to go to Europe and we thought we could make that happen for him, so his salary was structured under that assumption. Covid-19 borked that. In Gio’s defense, he was unhappy about trading him. Jebo was being played out of position though. That’s what this team does to players. He was struggling early on, so rather than have patience and try to develop him (which we suck at, especially at forward), we signed Niezgoda. Then we had to play Niezgoda up top because pride and how much money we sunk into him. And with everything else, Jebo was still better out of position as a winger than other options.
Ned hasn’t impressed me yet beyond his reputation but he’s still saddled with a bunch of Wilkinson and Paulson created problems.
I’ve always liked Gio as a person, while questioning his tactics, roster selections, substitutions, etc. He always got enough wins that I could ignore my concerns about his nonsensical comments in the press and occasional bed shitting. I’ve been on the Gio Out train for months now but the latest really clinches it. Regardless of whether I trust the guy anymore or think he’s actually as pleasant as he comes across, he appears to have lost the locker room, and he doesn’t have a string of good results to support him.
We lose against Colorado tonight, I hope he’s gone tomorrow.
But. I don’t see why any self respecting manager would take a job for either club in Portland now. Paulson wrecked both PTFCs and Heather Davis hasn’t shown she knows where she is.
"Ned hasn’t impressed me yet beyond his reputation but he’s still saddled with a bunch of Wilkinson and Paulson created problems."
Yeah, that's why I think this off season is crucial - Ned hasn't really had a chance to do his own thing, while he was dealing with untangling the mess that GW left behind (and it kind of can't be understated how messed up this roster and salary structure was when GW was forced out). Now he can, and I hope he makes the most of it.
I'll own up to having been generally impressed with GW as a dealmaker. I don't think his scouting was good and he's a dishonest, garbage person. But I thought he was shrewd about navigating the rules and juggling finances. He made enough unpopular decisions that I don't really buy that fan pressure influenced him directly, but I could see him being overruled by Paulson's petulance. But the state of things now really undermines my assessment of him even with respect to the financial decisions.
That said, regardless of how creative he was with signings, we wasted so many prospects by not properly scouting players and/or fielding them out of position, or never really giving them opportunities. We crashed the potential or stalled the progression of a number of players because we didn't see what we had or properly utilize it. That isn't to say all of that is GW's fault, but the coaches were chosen by him and Paulson, answered to them, and had to work within their constraints.
I think GW was good at juggling finances in the short term. Unfortunately, contracts aren't short-term, and a lot of the decisions GW made were for the now at the expense of the later.
GW wasn't really one to care about what the salary budget looked like three years from now; he was trying to optimize a roster for winning now. Which works great as an "all in" strategy if you get good players that can, you know, win now. But he couldn't do that. And so he left behind a big ol' mess that Ned is in the midst of cleaning up.
Except Ned doesn’t have his “own thing.” He’s on the latest iteration of a new position. IDK why so many folks think that Ned can solve these problems. Player quality has dropped across his entire tenure in the FO. He’s been the guy for what, five or six years now. And 2023 Timbers are what he has to show for it.
I don't think it's fair to say that Ned has been "the guy" for five or six years. GW was "the guy" since pre-MLS, and it didn't really seem, to my untrained outside eye, that GW welcomed a lot of assistance.
I don't think Ned's a miracle worker. I do think that now that the job is solely his, and now that he is getting out from under the mess GW made of both the salary budget and the playing roster, I am willing to give him a window or two to do things solely his way.
Nobody's bulletproof, and I will criticize Ned plenty where and when it's warranted, but I honestly don't think we've seen Ned do things on his own as GM for enough time to assume he can't do the job.
I'll add that Jebo's USMNT ambitions and the added incompetence of Gregg Berhalter affected his position and playing time as well.
Technicality, I know, but: Gio *publicly stated* that he was unhappy about trading him. He has also publicly stated that everything is fine with Moreno and he toooootally hasn’t lost the locker room at all.
I agree that Gio can give milquetoast responses to things, but he really threw GW under the bus when Jebo got shipped out.
https://twitter.com/NickKrupke/status/1423147319042531336
Yeah, Gio doesn't have much credibility at this point, but at the time it would be hard to see an upside for him throwing Wilkinson under the bus over Jebo. However, Wilkinson knew plenty of supporters already hated him, so why not take the heat? But Wilkinson also made up stories about his wife being harassed at the grocery store to get supporters to take it easier on him. Wilkinson doesn't seem like a "take one for the team" type. It's also possible that Gio just speaks nonsense without really thinking and that whatever he says doesn't really mean much. Why attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence?
Really. Wilkinson made up a story about his wife being harassed. When did that story come out.
I'm glad I got his autograph when I had the chance!
Link to this article?
Where did you see that Moreno is in Colombia?
https://twitter.com/ryantclarke/status/1679186700806021120?s=46&t=P0cWAAEKVmNsqd97sIhlvw
“After requesting a transfer and not showing up to training this week, Santiago Moreno is still in Colombia, per a source. He did not accompany the Timbers for their match tonight in Colorado.”
Damn. He's like "fuck those guys..."
Thanks! That is a quick trip considering we were in Colorado last wednesday.
Ouch. I did not know all that. That’s heavy…
Fire Gio
Looks like Santi doesn't want to leave after all
https://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/2023/07/santiago-moreno-denies-making-transfer-request-apologizes-to-portland-timbers.html
New article about the Moreno situation on OregonLive, and Moreno is now saying he never asked to be moved and made a mistake by missing extra days this past week. My best guess is that his agent told him that taking the steps he did makes it harder for the Timbers to move him, and to walk back the comments and apologize for the actions. I'll bet he still wants to move on from the Timbers, but realizes that his actions make him less desirable to other teams. At this point, I'm expecting to see him moved before the start of next season. It's unfortunate, as I really like his game, and think that he can develop into a really good player with some refinement. Just another position the team will likely need to fill in the coming months.
Off topic-why doesn't this site allow us to do fan post like the old one did?
Because Substack is an entirely different platform from SB Nation sites, built with and powered by entirely different technology.