Wow, I didn't think Ned would pull the trigger during the season. I've been a Gio defender, but this loss coupled with the very public disagreements with players absolutely forced Ned's hand. The good times were great with Gio, but it's been a miserable couple of seasons and this team lacks an identity as currently constructed.
Wow, I didn't think Ned would pull the trigger during the season. I've been a Gio defender, but this loss coupled with the very public disagreements with players absolutely forced Ned's hand. The good times were great with Gio, but it's been a miserable couple of seasons and this team lacks an identity as currently constructed.
Even the good times with Gio was kind of unconvincing to me. Sure, it was nice to win the "MLS is back" trophy and make the cup finals twice but like we sorta go there playing the kind of ball that only fans of a team could appreciate. I always felt that Gio ball was unsustainable in the long run given the progress the league's been making the last few years. now with Messi the bar has been raised. Maybe Ned felt he had to pull the trigger now or we would get lost in the Messi-led wave.
The good times were only ok and at best good with Gio, not great. Timbers continue to have the same issues they always have. Mental issues where their play is subpar until it matters (playoffs) where they overachieve and then flounder in the final (all but the build better back, covid cup, or whatever it was called). BTW, that is an issue that went across Porter AND Gio, and someone in the Front office needs to figure out WHY. He was also outcoached by more than one coach across more than a few games. All in all i thought he was good for the first few years; however, seemed to get worse the more players he got to form HIS team. Thanks Gio, All the best on your future endeavors.
His time has come. He was failed, but also failed. We don’t have to pretend like he doesn’t know the shape of a soccer ball. He did some good things here. And a couple of great things. Fun guy. Decent guy, unless you’re an AR.
Hopeful in moving on. But the Gio bashing (there should be some post-mortem criticism, certainly) should stop now and maybe we can reflect on some of his achievements as well. Despite how this place has talked about Gio every time a player makes a dipshit pass, there were some GREAT successes.
Yeah, #CampGioOut was focused on a few dipshit passes here and there...
No one is arguing there weren't successes. There obviously were. Covid Cup was really fun, and the team was clicking. Yeah the 21 playoff run was great, and having an MLS Cup at home was amazing, even with the loss.
My issue, and the issue of a lot of people, was the overarching timbre of the seasons under Gio. It wasn't fun to watch. The Timbers did not play attractive, engaging soccer for the vast majority of every season under Gio. The entertainment value wa abysmal.
Sure, they'd cork off some big wins here and there (loved that PTFC had the best of the Sounders during his reign). But then they'd get embarrassingly trounced. At home. The random highs were high, but the frequent lows were very low. Two weeks of hot play at the end of the season will always struggle to make up for six or seven months of derpy, incohesive, and listless soccer. But I suppose for some fans, the ends justify the means, and all that matters is that fleeting hot run in the playoffs.
So yeah, Gio presided over some fun moments. He sure seemed a decent tournament coach. But stylistically, what imprint is he leaving behind? What players are significantly better than they were when they arrived? On a football basis, how has the club grown under his tutelage? And, most importantly, what the hell was GioBall? I don't think anyone will remember what GioBall was, because no one can actually articulate what it is. And therein lies the heart of the problem, imho. This club has zero identity on the pitch. And that comes full circle to the issue a lot of us have had with Gio.
Wish him well. Seems like a great human. I bet kids and dogs like him. But I've never been a fan of him as a coach, and seriously doubt I'll look back on the Gio Era with much fondness other than good times with friends in the stands.
But that is the past. It is time to move forward. This is a pivotal moment for the club. I hope Ned & Co are up for the challenge, and I hope MP can dredge up some of the ambition he used to have and allow this club to grow.
The biggest mystery to me is why the team has made the same defensive mistakes year after year across coaches. It's like the fundamentals don't exist--horror show back post marking, falling asleep, out of sync offside plays, facing our own goal too much, penalties conceded... The team has often been talented if mercurial in attack under both Porter and Gio, the defense has been juvenile for most of the team's MLS tenure.
The whole cold start, hot finish has really been with this team since I can remember both under Porter and Gio. It almost makes me wonder if there are huge bonuses attached to winning the cup and management said it is okay to just do well enough in the regular season as long as you go far in the playoffs.
I honestly think that it's more a league-wide byproduct of the fact that 65% of teams make the playoffs, and that this has always been a league where more teams make the playoffs than don't. Bruce Arena's Galaxy teams were famous for doing nothing for the first half or more of a season, then turning it on late. Problem is, Portland's teams haven't been as talented as some of those LAG teams, so while they were able to turn it on late, they rarely turned it into anything other than early playoff exits most years.
What would be a better system though, if not pro /rel?
I think the structure of MLS sort of forces the situation.
If a bottom of the table team can't fight against relegation , or fight for promotion, and there aren't solid financial reasons to remain in the top league, what do people have to cheer for towards the end of the season?
Getting into the playoffs, or failing that, winning some other trophy - Leagues Cup, Cascadia Cup, etc.
I didn't say anything one way or the other about whether MLS' system was good or bad. It is what it is, and it's not gonna change (and I like the playoffs). But given that a majority of teams make the playoffs, it stands to reason that some teams will just tick over in neutral until they have to turn it on to qualify for the playoffs.
I guess it comes down to incentive. This system gives fans more incentive to attend matches- dangling the playoffs - but it gives the teams less incentive to grind it out throughout the whole season.
Don't teams really have to do that, though? I mean, Toronto in 2017 and LAFC are the only 2 teams that won SS/MLS cup recently. And both of those teams were stacked. Salary caps keep teams from adding depth that allows them to do both.
Not at all! Just look 180 miles north of here. The Sounders are in the SS conversation more years than they aren't, which means they take the entirety of the regular season seriously. Even if they don't win the SS (except one time), they're at least in position to do it most every season.
A number of teams in the Eastern Conference, which in case nobody's noticed is actually better than the West at this point in MLS' development, also take the entire season seriously.
I'm not talking about automatically winning the SS/MLS Cup. But it's entirely possible to build a team that cares about games in March as much as it does games in September - but that's down to coaching as much as it is talent on the roster.
That 2016 year was when Sigi Schmid got fired mid-season, after a disastrous loss in Kansas City where his team clearly quit on him.
After Schmid was fired, they only lost twice in their last 14 games under their new, and still current, coach. I think that's less "taking it easy" and more doing the same thing that the Timbers did this year - greatly underperforming under a long-term coach and hitting rock bottom before a change was made.
At any rate, yes, it is possible for teams to take the entire season seriously, and we are in agreement that the Timbers should definitely do that.
Wow, I didn't think Ned would pull the trigger during the season. I've been a Gio defender, but this loss coupled with the very public disagreements with players absolutely forced Ned's hand. The good times were great with Gio, but it's been a miserable couple of seasons and this team lacks an identity as currently constructed.
“The good times were great with Gio.” Sure there were some fun moments. But it was mainly a root canal without nitrous.
Even the good times with Gio was kind of unconvincing to me. Sure, it was nice to win the "MLS is back" trophy and make the cup finals twice but like we sorta go there playing the kind of ball that only fans of a team could appreciate. I always felt that Gio ball was unsustainable in the long run given the progress the league's been making the last few years. now with Messi the bar has been raised. Maybe Ned felt he had to pull the trigger now or we would get lost in the Messi-led wave.
The good times were only ok and at best good with Gio, not great. Timbers continue to have the same issues they always have. Mental issues where their play is subpar until it matters (playoffs) where they overachieve and then flounder in the final (all but the build better back, covid cup, or whatever it was called). BTW, that is an issue that went across Porter AND Gio, and someone in the Front office needs to figure out WHY. He was also outcoached by more than one coach across more than a few games. All in all i thought he was good for the first few years; however, seemed to get worse the more players he got to form HIS team. Thanks Gio, All the best on your future endeavors.
Hosting the MLS Cup is great.
Regardless of context.
His time has come. He was failed, but also failed. We don’t have to pretend like he doesn’t know the shape of a soccer ball. He did some good things here. And a couple of great things. Fun guy. Decent guy, unless you’re an AR.
Hopeful in moving on. But the Gio bashing (there should be some post-mortem criticism, certainly) should stop now and maybe we can reflect on some of his achievements as well. Despite how this place has talked about Gio every time a player makes a dipshit pass, there were some GREAT successes.
Yeah, #CampGioOut was focused on a few dipshit passes here and there...
No one is arguing there weren't successes. There obviously were. Covid Cup was really fun, and the team was clicking. Yeah the 21 playoff run was great, and having an MLS Cup at home was amazing, even with the loss.
My issue, and the issue of a lot of people, was the overarching timbre of the seasons under Gio. It wasn't fun to watch. The Timbers did not play attractive, engaging soccer for the vast majority of every season under Gio. The entertainment value wa abysmal.
Sure, they'd cork off some big wins here and there (loved that PTFC had the best of the Sounders during his reign). But then they'd get embarrassingly trounced. At home. The random highs were high, but the frequent lows were very low. Two weeks of hot play at the end of the season will always struggle to make up for six or seven months of derpy, incohesive, and listless soccer. But I suppose for some fans, the ends justify the means, and all that matters is that fleeting hot run in the playoffs.
So yeah, Gio presided over some fun moments. He sure seemed a decent tournament coach. But stylistically, what imprint is he leaving behind? What players are significantly better than they were when they arrived? On a football basis, how has the club grown under his tutelage? And, most importantly, what the hell was GioBall? I don't think anyone will remember what GioBall was, because no one can actually articulate what it is. And therein lies the heart of the problem, imho. This club has zero identity on the pitch. And that comes full circle to the issue a lot of us have had with Gio.
Wish him well. Seems like a great human. I bet kids and dogs like him. But I've never been a fan of him as a coach, and seriously doubt I'll look back on the Gio Era with much fondness other than good times with friends in the stands.
But that is the past. It is time to move forward. This is a pivotal moment for the club. I hope Ned & Co are up for the challenge, and I hope MP can dredge up some of the ambition he used to have and allow this club to grow.
Onward, Rose City.
"Gio Ball"
It's backyard soccer at breakneck speed.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Agree: it’s time to move forward. And I strongly hope the style is elevated.
I will stop the Gio bashing. I will also stop thinking about Gio almost entirely and move on to the next.
I'm already sharpening my knives for ______ Bashing lol.
Please explain how I am either Gio bashing or saying that he didn't have good achievements. I didn't, I specifically said there was good!
This is me misplacing some angst. Good point, I hope, poorly placed.
We can argue about good vs great, but you weren’t bashing. I apologize.
The biggest mystery to me is why the team has made the same defensive mistakes year after year across coaches. It's like the fundamentals don't exist--horror show back post marking, falling asleep, out of sync offside plays, facing our own goal too much, penalties conceded... The team has often been talented if mercurial in attack under both Porter and Gio, the defense has been juvenile for most of the team's MLS tenure.
The whole cold start, hot finish has really been with this team since I can remember both under Porter and Gio. It almost makes me wonder if there are huge bonuses attached to winning the cup and management said it is okay to just do well enough in the regular season as long as you go far in the playoffs.
I honestly think that it's more a league-wide byproduct of the fact that 65% of teams make the playoffs, and that this has always been a league where more teams make the playoffs than don't. Bruce Arena's Galaxy teams were famous for doing nothing for the first half or more of a season, then turning it on late. Problem is, Portland's teams haven't been as talented as some of those LAG teams, so while they were able to turn it on late, they rarely turned it into anything other than early playoff exits most years.
What would be a better system though, if not pro /rel?
I think the structure of MLS sort of forces the situation.
If a bottom of the table team can't fight against relegation , or fight for promotion, and there aren't solid financial reasons to remain in the top league, what do people have to cheer for towards the end of the season?
Getting into the playoffs, or failing that, winning some other trophy - Leagues Cup, Cascadia Cup, etc.
I didn't say anything one way or the other about whether MLS' system was good or bad. It is what it is, and it's not gonna change (and I like the playoffs). But given that a majority of teams make the playoffs, it stands to reason that some teams will just tick over in neutral until they have to turn it on to qualify for the playoffs.
I guess it comes down to incentive. This system gives fans more incentive to attend matches- dangling the playoffs - but it gives the teams less incentive to grind it out throughout the whole season.
Don't teams really have to do that, though? I mean, Toronto in 2017 and LAFC are the only 2 teams that won SS/MLS cup recently. And both of those teams were stacked. Salary caps keep teams from adding depth that allows them to do both.
Not at all! Just look 180 miles north of here. The Sounders are in the SS conversation more years than they aren't, which means they take the entirety of the regular season seriously. Even if they don't win the SS (except one time), they're at least in position to do it most every season.
A number of teams in the Eastern Conference, which in case nobody's noticed is actually better than the West at this point in MLS' development, also take the entire season seriously.
I'm not talking about automatically winning the SS/MLS Cup. But it's entirely possible to build a team that cares about games in March as much as it does games in September - but that's down to coaching as much as it is talent on the roster.
Sounders? They were bottom of the table in 2016 and 17 when they made the cup due to getting hot. 6th overall in 2020. 2019 a respectable 4th.
I think they learned in 2014 teams can't go all in to get both and finally won.
And to be clear, this stinking it up from early on by ptfc for the last 10 years has to stop.
That 2016 year was when Sigi Schmid got fired mid-season, after a disastrous loss in Kansas City where his team clearly quit on him.
After Schmid was fired, they only lost twice in their last 14 games under their new, and still current, coach. I think that's less "taking it easy" and more doing the same thing that the Timbers did this year - greatly underperforming under a long-term coach and hitting rock bottom before a change was made.
At any rate, yes, it is possible for teams to take the entire season seriously, and we are in agreement that the Timbers should definitely do that.