That was possibly the sloppiest game I’ve ever seen this team play- Misplaced passes everywhere, lazy balls out of the defense by the CBs, bad tackles leading to bad set piece defense, and bad goalkeeper mistakes.
Takeaways:
1. Weaver was the only Thorn on the field that should come out of that game feeling good about themself. …
That was possibly the sloppiest game I’ve ever seen this team play- Misplaced passes everywhere, lazy balls out of the defense by the CBs, bad tackles leading to bad set piece defense, and bad goalkeeper mistakes.
Takeaways:
1. Weaver was the only Thorn on the field that should come out of that game feeling good about themself. Worked her ass off all night, created chances, got her goal, and made some really intelligent runs. She still gets a little too over her skis at times but she’s turned into a much more polished player.
2. The full Bixby experience: She cannot get beat at her near post on the Thompson goal- Just straight up bad goalkeeping. Yes, she definitely gets fouled by Ertz on the 2nd, but I think she had already misjudged the ball (similar to KC) when Ertz made contact. Then she pops up and scores a back heel winner. I’ll reiterate what I said when Hogan got time against SD- Bella is prone to a really bad mistake or two once every few games and I’m not really sure she ever cleans it up.
3. We played a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond after the Soph and Moultrie subs, with Sinc in the hole and Soph and Weaver up top. Soph wasn’t effective at all, and I think that was partially down to her being shunted to one side in minimal space rather than being able to patrol centrally and float in and out like she usually does. Looked like they went back to a version of the 4-3-3 once Izzy came in with Smith on the RW. I’d prefer we not see that diamond again!
4. Sinc can’t be the last of the Dunn/Hina/Sinc trio to be taken off every match- she’s freakin 40.
5. Moultrie’s assist was OUTRAGEOUS. It’s one thing to be able to see that pass, but another thing entirely to be able to play it. She’s really a pleasure to watch when she gets license to create.
6. We really missed Becky’s composure and leadership in the back- The defensive unit felt totally out of sync all match, even if they didn’t really allow much from open play.
7. The crowd felt like an old, pre-scandal, pre-Covid crowd! Not sure if the attendance number backs it up, but that felt like (at least one of) the biggest non-playoff crowds I’ve seen since 2019.
Overall- Bad result, decent outcome. ACFC is an undoubtedly better team with Ertz, and both Seattle (should’ve lost) and SD (did lose to gd Orlando) dropped points too. A lot of stuff to clean up, though- Hope Norris lets em have it a little bit.
Just dropping a note to say that I really enjoy your work, but I keep noticing some grammatical errors such as “would of” rather than would have or would’ve. *takes pedant hat off* HOLY SHIT BELLA BACKHEEL STOPPAGE TIME GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
I don’t think Sinc was being utilized well, if they had taken advantage of her as a target, back to goal forward, like Adi was for the Timbers, she could play the wingers in and use Weaver’s ability to get forward better.
Kuikka had a stinker of a game. We’ve all had those days, but wow. I hope it’s a one off.
That great it's trending up...the best number I've seen in a while. When I first got there, it looked pretty empty....I thought Portland took the beautiful weather to do something else. Filled in a ton after the game started though...it was LOUD. Hina had her Japanese fan section again and I just love them! Flags and little drums, ect....
I had no idea who would take it...I assumed Sinc. Hina looked a little spooked to be taking it so I was hiding my face for that one lol. I've taken enough PK's in my day that I know an apprehensive PK taker can be an issue. I was relieved to hear the crowd after!
I think if you look back at the broadcast, you will see literally a dozen times where Hubly and Menges are passing the ball back and forth with Weaver and/or Sugita absolutely unmarked beyond halfway. When Hubly or Menges decide to finally make a forward pass, it's to Klingenberg or Kuikka. NEVER to the open wing. Becky makes that pass 2-4 times per match. And that forces ACFC centerbacks to stay somewhat closer to home, which in turns reduces ACFC's ability to triple team our midfielders. Now, I don't know if H & M are not CAPABLE of making that pass (I am pretty sure I've seen Menges dime that before), or if they have been drilled to not try. But IMO, either is a bad sign.
The centerbacks should be initiating the offense with quick, decisive passes. They have been slow all year. Hubly in particular could eat a sandwich while she takes 3or 4 touches and decides where to go with the ball. If she can’t decide, she usually punts long. Bixby too takes too much time. It’s like they’re waiting for the defense to set up. The first pass goes wide maybe 8 o 9 times out of ten, with the defenders already there, ready and waiting. When was the last time anybody needed to scout this team?
After multiple games of data, I tend to thing it's something that's being coached. The CB pass maps are almost exclusively to the fullbacks, who try to act more like wingbacks....Kling is not that. Kuikka is more suited for that play, but she's gotta work on her passing if she wants to get higher without turning the ball over. On the same pass maps, the wingers almost exclusively receive balls from the fullback on the same side. The midfielders aren't even being used for triangle passes or anything. I'm always questioning what the plan is...
Bypassing the midfield is definitely tactical, and it's because neither Sinc or Dunn are true possession 8s- You can't play through a one woman (Coffey) midfield. We don't see the long balls to Hina because she's not a threat in behind, but Hubly does look for Weaver relatively frequently on the diagonals
I think the game plan is relatively clear, and generally effective: Get Weaver and Soph in space. They do, however, need to put a bigger emphasis on midfield play when Soph isn't on the field, because there's nobody else that can come close to having the draw that she does. It seems like they don't change the tactics when the personnel is different, which Norris needs to figure out- One of Sinc or Dunn needs to be taken off for Moultrie imo.
Yeah, Sinc and Dunn didn't work well together in the Parsons diamond...and they don't work together here. It's kinda gotta be either/or for me. They both tend to occupy the same space high and centrally, and it just leaves too many gaps.
During the game my daughter and I were lamenting the Thorns' over-reliance on passing around the back this season, instead of involving the midfield at least occasionally. We were trying to decide if this was a tactical choice by the coaches, or something players are doing because opponents are somehow shutting out our midfield.
So I guess it's good to hear you say it's a tactical choice. But the results don't seem great (I mean aside from still being top of the table!). Is the coaching staff making this strategy choice because they think the midfield can't be effective possessing the ball and connecting with the forwards up top? Or do they truly think this is the best way to maximize Soph? Because it seems like you can still hit Soph in open spaces passing from the center of the midfield -- as seen by Moultrie's pass to Weaver in the last game. And it seems preposterous to suggest that some combination of Coffey, Rocky, Dunn can't effectively connect on short passes in space. (Oh, if only we could include Hina in the midfield .... )
I feel like Coffey hasn't played as well this season as last year -- maybe that's partly because of a change in tactics so that she's not being put in the same kinds of situations, eg. to be able to play thru the midfield?
I think Coffey generally had an 8 closer to her last year, be it Rocky or Hina. That just made it easier. She's passing more so far this season but her completion on medium and shot passes are both down a little. Interestingly, her long passes per 90 are also down.
I’m just someone who watches the games so who know what the real intent is, but my observation is that the lineup and Norris’ comments seem to indicate a preference to isolate Smith and Weaver in space over playing possession in the midfield.
My reasoning is pretty straightforward:
1. Dunn and Sinclair are both natural attackers: Sinc has been a striker her whole career, and Dunn won a golden boot with NC as a 9. If you want to control the ball in midfield, it doesn’t make sense to play with both of them on the pitch ostensibly as midfielders.
2. The pass maps match the eye test- A lot of interplay involving Kling and Kuikka, much less through Dunn/Sinc.
3. Anecdotally, it seems like Kelli has tried (often successfully) the over the top dink to Smith more frequently than last season.
On the whole, I do think it maximizes Smith and Weaver, both of whom are best with green grass in front of them. We’ve seen Soph have her worst games against Girma and SD when the Wave pack it in and tighten the space. But, we are seeing that it makes Sam cover a TON of ground while having limited options through the midfield. Ideally, I’d have Moultrie replace Sinc and try to play through the midfield a little more....but thats’s unlikely to happen.
In the meantime, I’d like to see a little more flexibility- They seem to try to play the same way regardless of opposition and personnel, and I want to see that Norris can make those adjustments game by game.
It's interesting to me that he started Rocky last night, and brought Moultrie on; Rocky's a definite 8, Moultrie can drop in more than Sinc can. Thought the passing was a little more incisive in the second half, where I think the Thorns played pretty well aside from basically being rattled for 5 minutes.
He probably trusts Rocky in possession more- Moultrie's best moments are great, but she still floats in and out of games. I wish he had started both and brought Dunn or Sinc off the bench with Soph. The next step for him as a coach is to show a little flexibility tactically- It's been pretty rigid so far.
Hubly is usually pretty good at those long switches, but she didn't do very many last night. She was picking her head up enough to spot the far-side winger, she just didn't go for it much. Coaching decision?
Yeah, this sums it up for me. The goals we conceded were all sloppy - the concession of the free kick by Kuikka for the third is one of the stupidest plays in recent memory from this team and she was lucky not to get a second yellow, having just been booked.
I will say I thought Dunn and Coffey were good; along with Weaver, they were the only players who showed up in the first half.
Think the lineup was wrong; if Soph isn't available and Sinc is playing a kind of hybrid 9/10 role you have to start two wingers, not Hina and Sinc with Weaver. The lack of pace hampered the Thorns who were only good in the first half when Hina, Dunn, Sinc etc could combine and then use Weaver's runs. However, the lineup being wrong doesn't excuse the team's basic lack of fundamentals in the first half, like not winning 50-50s
all good points. I think Norris is in way over his head, but to be fair, there's no reason to have thought he wouldn't be, being a rookie and thrust into a role he's not ready for because the front office can't find anyone else in Canada with pro experience. I'm not as anxious about it, though, because the memories of last year starting out with another rookie coach kind of went the same way. Hopefully the players still believe in him and he can figure it out in time like last Coach Wilkinson did.
I actually think Norris has been perfectly fine- Every coach has substitution patterns and lineup decisions fans disagree with, but he's set up the team to succeed in a way that RW very much did not at the start of last season. I haven't seen anything to suggest he's in way over his head. I'm not saying he's been exceptional, but I feel comfortable with most of his choices so far. There are some tactical tweaks he'll need to make -- I'm not happy with how isolated Coffey is with Sinc and Dunn on the field -- but he's a smart guy and I'm optimistic he can adapt.
I put performances like last night mostly on the players. Just a boatload of individual errors: Kuikka and Rocky making sloppy, unnecessary fouls leading to dangerous FKs. Terrible set piece defending, foul or no foul. Bella leaving her near post open. Lazy passes all over the field. If I'm Norris, I'm telling the players that their play simply wasn't good enough last night.
Really weird game yesterday, haven't seen them look that out of sync for awhile. These upcoming games hopefully will see them getting back to Thorns football.
I agree on this point. While there are some issues with the substitutions, I feel like I understand why he is making the decision at the time. The glaring issue remains Sinclaire, but we have know that will be an issue for a few years now (Parsons, Wilkinson and now Norris). Otherwise I have to trust levels of fitness and recognition that a player is at the end of their game.
I think Norris has to find a way to light a fire under the team, and do it consistently. The difficulty of that is this team is so experienced that those efforts are really difficult. This will be a good indicator if Norris can do it, because there are a number of points he can bring up to challenge the team. Sloppy game they should have won, poor refereeing, even the choice to pass on VAR can be used to motivate the team to play better.
Wild night!
That was possibly the sloppiest game I’ve ever seen this team play- Misplaced passes everywhere, lazy balls out of the defense by the CBs, bad tackles leading to bad set piece defense, and bad goalkeeper mistakes.
Takeaways:
1. Weaver was the only Thorn on the field that should come out of that game feeling good about themself. Worked her ass off all night, created chances, got her goal, and made some really intelligent runs. She still gets a little too over her skis at times but she’s turned into a much more polished player.
2. The full Bixby experience: She cannot get beat at her near post on the Thompson goal- Just straight up bad goalkeeping. Yes, she definitely gets fouled by Ertz on the 2nd, but I think she had already misjudged the ball (similar to KC) when Ertz made contact. Then she pops up and scores a back heel winner. I’ll reiterate what I said when Hogan got time against SD- Bella is prone to a really bad mistake or two once every few games and I’m not really sure she ever cleans it up.
3. We played a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond after the Soph and Moultrie subs, with Sinc in the hole and Soph and Weaver up top. Soph wasn’t effective at all, and I think that was partially down to her being shunted to one side in minimal space rather than being able to patrol centrally and float in and out like she usually does. Looked like they went back to a version of the 4-3-3 once Izzy came in with Smith on the RW. I’d prefer we not see that diamond again!
4. Sinc can’t be the last of the Dunn/Hina/Sinc trio to be taken off every match- she’s freakin 40.
5. Moultrie’s assist was OUTRAGEOUS. It’s one thing to be able to see that pass, but another thing entirely to be able to play it. She’s really a pleasure to watch when she gets license to create.
6. We really missed Becky’s composure and leadership in the back- The defensive unit felt totally out of sync all match, even if they didn’t really allow much from open play.
7. The crowd felt like an old, pre-scandal, pre-Covid crowd! Not sure if the attendance number backs it up, but that felt like (at least one of) the biggest non-playoff crowds I’ve seen since 2019.
Overall- Bad result, decent outcome. ACFC is an undoubtedly better team with Ertz, and both Seattle (should’ve lost) and SD (did lose to gd Orlando) dropped points too. A lot of stuff to clean up, though- Hope Norris lets em have it a little bit.
Attendance was 17k which is a good sign, some of those were traveling fans from LA, but still.
Becky's brilliance can't be more obvious, she keeps the backline so organized which is why it's almost impossible to score when she's out there.
Olivia is so good when given the chance to be herself.
Would of liked to see Izzy with more minutes as the 9, with Sophia on the bench, would of been nice to see her start too.
This game was very uncharacteristic and can't happen anymore. These road games will be telling though.
Just dropping a note to say that I really enjoy your work, but I keep noticing some grammatical errors such as “would of” rather than would have or would’ve. *takes pedant hat off* HOLY SHIT BELLA BACKHEEL STOPPAGE TIME GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
I don’t think Sinc was being utilized well, if they had taken advantage of her as a target, back to goal forward, like Adi was for the Timbers, she could play the wingers in and use Weaver’s ability to get forward better.
Kuikka had a stinker of a game. We’ve all had those days, but wow. I hope it’s a one off.
That great it's trending up...the best number I've seen in a while. When I first got there, it looked pretty empty....I thought Portland took the beautiful weather to do something else. Filled in a ton after the game started though...it was LOUD. Hina had her Japanese fan section again and I just love them! Flags and little drums, ect....
You know how it is, most fans are there barely on time or still getting their snacks or drinks for the game.
It was so warm out!
I love that for Hina, deserves it all. Glad they let her take the PK. I thought it was going to be Rocky.
I had no idea who would take it...I assumed Sinc. Hina looked a little spooked to be taking it so I was hiding my face for that one lol. I've taken enough PK's in my day that I know an apprehensive PK taker can be an issue. I was relieved to hear the crowd after!
I think if you look back at the broadcast, you will see literally a dozen times where Hubly and Menges are passing the ball back and forth with Weaver and/or Sugita absolutely unmarked beyond halfway. When Hubly or Menges decide to finally make a forward pass, it's to Klingenberg or Kuikka. NEVER to the open wing. Becky makes that pass 2-4 times per match. And that forces ACFC centerbacks to stay somewhat closer to home, which in turns reduces ACFC's ability to triple team our midfielders. Now, I don't know if H & M are not CAPABLE of making that pass (I am pretty sure I've seen Menges dime that before), or if they have been drilled to not try. But IMO, either is a bad sign.
Truth.
The centerbacks should be initiating the offense with quick, decisive passes. They have been slow all year. Hubly in particular could eat a sandwich while she takes 3or 4 touches and decides where to go with the ball. If she can’t decide, she usually punts long. Bixby too takes too much time. It’s like they’re waiting for the defense to set up. The first pass goes wide maybe 8 o 9 times out of ten, with the defenders already there, ready and waiting. When was the last time anybody needed to scout this team?
After multiple games of data, I tend to thing it's something that's being coached. The CB pass maps are almost exclusively to the fullbacks, who try to act more like wingbacks....Kling is not that. Kuikka is more suited for that play, but she's gotta work on her passing if she wants to get higher without turning the ball over. On the same pass maps, the wingers almost exclusively receive balls from the fullback on the same side. The midfielders aren't even being used for triangle passes or anything. I'm always questioning what the plan is...
Bypassing the midfield is definitely tactical, and it's because neither Sinc or Dunn are true possession 8s- You can't play through a one woman (Coffey) midfield. We don't see the long balls to Hina because she's not a threat in behind, but Hubly does look for Weaver relatively frequently on the diagonals
I think the game plan is relatively clear, and generally effective: Get Weaver and Soph in space. They do, however, need to put a bigger emphasis on midfield play when Soph isn't on the field, because there's nobody else that can come close to having the draw that she does. It seems like they don't change the tactics when the personnel is different, which Norris needs to figure out- One of Sinc or Dunn needs to be taken off for Moultrie imo.
Yeah, Sinc and Dunn didn't work well together in the Parsons diamond...and they don't work together here. It's kinda gotta be either/or for me. They both tend to occupy the same space high and centrally, and it just leaves too many gaps.
During the game my daughter and I were lamenting the Thorns' over-reliance on passing around the back this season, instead of involving the midfield at least occasionally. We were trying to decide if this was a tactical choice by the coaches, or something players are doing because opponents are somehow shutting out our midfield.
So I guess it's good to hear you say it's a tactical choice. But the results don't seem great (I mean aside from still being top of the table!). Is the coaching staff making this strategy choice because they think the midfield can't be effective possessing the ball and connecting with the forwards up top? Or do they truly think this is the best way to maximize Soph? Because it seems like you can still hit Soph in open spaces passing from the center of the midfield -- as seen by Moultrie's pass to Weaver in the last game. And it seems preposterous to suggest that some combination of Coffey, Rocky, Dunn can't effectively connect on short passes in space. (Oh, if only we could include Hina in the midfield .... )
I feel like Coffey hasn't played as well this season as last year -- maybe that's partly because of a change in tactics so that she's not being put in the same kinds of situations, eg. to be able to play thru the midfield?
I think Coffey generally had an 8 closer to her last year, be it Rocky or Hina. That just made it easier. She's passing more so far this season but her completion on medium and shot passes are both down a little. Interestingly, her long passes per 90 are also down.
I’m just someone who watches the games so who know what the real intent is, but my observation is that the lineup and Norris’ comments seem to indicate a preference to isolate Smith and Weaver in space over playing possession in the midfield.
My reasoning is pretty straightforward:
1. Dunn and Sinclair are both natural attackers: Sinc has been a striker her whole career, and Dunn won a golden boot with NC as a 9. If you want to control the ball in midfield, it doesn’t make sense to play with both of them on the pitch ostensibly as midfielders.
2. The pass maps match the eye test- A lot of interplay involving Kling and Kuikka, much less through Dunn/Sinc.
3. Anecdotally, it seems like Kelli has tried (often successfully) the over the top dink to Smith more frequently than last season.
On the whole, I do think it maximizes Smith and Weaver, both of whom are best with green grass in front of them. We’ve seen Soph have her worst games against Girma and SD when the Wave pack it in and tighten the space. But, we are seeing that it makes Sam cover a TON of ground while having limited options through the midfield. Ideally, I’d have Moultrie replace Sinc and try to play through the midfield a little more....but thats’s unlikely to happen.
In the meantime, I’d like to see a little more flexibility- They seem to try to play the same way regardless of opposition and personnel, and I want to see that Norris can make those adjustments game by game.
It's interesting to me that he started Rocky last night, and brought Moultrie on; Rocky's a definite 8, Moultrie can drop in more than Sinc can. Thought the passing was a little more incisive in the second half, where I think the Thorns played pretty well aside from basically being rattled for 5 minutes.
He probably trusts Rocky in possession more- Moultrie's best moments are great, but she still floats in and out of games. I wish he had started both and brought Dunn or Sinc off the bench with Soph. The next step for him as a coach is to show a little flexibility tactically- It's been pretty rigid so far.
Hubly is usually pretty good at those long switches, but she didn't do very many last night. She was picking her head up enough to spot the far-side winger, she just didn't go for it much. Coaching decision?
Yeah, this sums it up for me. The goals we conceded were all sloppy - the concession of the free kick by Kuikka for the third is one of the stupidest plays in recent memory from this team and she was lucky not to get a second yellow, having just been booked.
I will say I thought Dunn and Coffey were good; along with Weaver, they were the only players who showed up in the first half.
Think the lineup was wrong; if Soph isn't available and Sinc is playing a kind of hybrid 9/10 role you have to start two wingers, not Hina and Sinc with Weaver. The lack of pace hampered the Thorns who were only good in the first half when Hina, Dunn, Sinc etc could combine and then use Weaver's runs. However, the lineup being wrong doesn't excuse the team's basic lack of fundamentals in the first half, like not winning 50-50s
Yup, gotta have more pace if Soph isn't starting.
Yeah, with Weaver's pace, you can't have Sinc jogging behind the play if she is the central forward. The attack was toothless with that trio up top.
all good points. I think Norris is in way over his head, but to be fair, there's no reason to have thought he wouldn't be, being a rookie and thrust into a role he's not ready for because the front office can't find anyone else in Canada with pro experience. I'm not as anxious about it, though, because the memories of last year starting out with another rookie coach kind of went the same way. Hopefully the players still believe in him and he can figure it out in time like last Coach Wilkinson did.
I actually think Norris has been perfectly fine- Every coach has substitution patterns and lineup decisions fans disagree with, but he's set up the team to succeed in a way that RW very much did not at the start of last season. I haven't seen anything to suggest he's in way over his head. I'm not saying he's been exceptional, but I feel comfortable with most of his choices so far. There are some tactical tweaks he'll need to make -- I'm not happy with how isolated Coffey is with Sinc and Dunn on the field -- but he's a smart guy and I'm optimistic he can adapt.
I put performances like last night mostly on the players. Just a boatload of individual errors: Kuikka and Rocky making sloppy, unnecessary fouls leading to dangerous FKs. Terrible set piece defending, foul or no foul. Bella leaving her near post open. Lazy passes all over the field. If I'm Norris, I'm telling the players that their play simply wasn't good enough last night.
Really weird game yesterday, haven't seen them look that out of sync for awhile. These upcoming games hopefully will see them getting back to Thorns football.
To me the problems mostly had to do with:
1) Lineup -- who wasn't available and who didn't start, which made for a toothless attack
2) Substitutions -- when they were made and why
3) Set pieces -- Emslie has delivered brilliant balls that resulted in gorgeous goals twice this year, including last night
4) Natu's rough second half stretch
5) Ertz -- she's definitely a presence out there and willing to throw her body around
But, hey, on the night when the league celebrated its 1000 match, this was classic NWSL After Dark. Frustrating but fun.
I agree on this point. While there are some issues with the substitutions, I feel like I understand why he is making the decision at the time. The glaring issue remains Sinclaire, but we have know that will be an issue for a few years now (Parsons, Wilkinson and now Norris). Otherwise I have to trust levels of fitness and recognition that a player is at the end of their game.
I think Norris has to find a way to light a fire under the team, and do it consistently. The difficulty of that is this team is so experienced that those efforts are really difficult. This will be a good indicator if Norris can do it, because there are a number of points he can bring up to challenge the team. Sloppy game they should have won, poor refereeing, even the choice to pass on VAR can be used to motivate the team to play better.