It’s refreshing to see such a pointed, accurate, thorough, yet fair assessment of the situation. I’ve made excuses for some of the FO moves with respect to the sale, maintaining some continuity with the upheaval and coaching changes, Olympic and World Cup years, etc. but nobody top to bottom has done as well as they could and should have even under adverse conditions. I’d entertain firing the whole staff minus Lowdon, including Norris and LeBlanc, to start a turnaround. We’ll look like clowns firing another coach so soon but we set ourselves back even more the longer we wait. There will be some fans who will see the new owners as too pragmatic or ruthless if they fire the lot, but it’s a statement of intent that needs to be made. We will lose great players to free agency and won’t attract and retain the best talent if we don’t quickly show we are moving in the right direction and that we mean business, that we aren’t just a place for Canadians to go to retire. We are embarrassing right now. That’s worse than bad.
Tnank you Phuoc for putting this summary of frustrations (and plea for action) out there where, hopefully, the ownership may notice it. I imagine this won't endear you to the team if they start to see you as an independent critical eye, and that their actions/inactions are, in fact being scrutinized.
Hopefully they can see the greater good in an honest media not afraid to be critical when it's appropriate, and that the Thorns organization will be better off in the long run for it.
I tend to push the “beginning of the end” even further back - to the end of Parsons tenure and the Riley scandal breaking in 2020-2021. The troubles caused by Paulson’s increasingly erratic and irresponsible behavior, his unwillingness to expedite the sale and lack of investment in the club during that period…it built up a store of problems the ‘22 star just kind of papered over.
It’s easy to forget the ugly start to ‘22, with points dropped as Wilkinson persisted in Gale-esque tactical errors (the 3-5-2!) and playing people out of position. I’m glad the club came back to win the semi on a late Dunn banger then rolled over a hapless KCC…but that season hung by a thread as often as not.
And as Richard points out - LeBlanc’s handwaving l’affaire Mengesson AND doxing the players whom it worried is a play right out of the Paulson Era book.
That’s why I’d hoped the Bhathals would come in hot and sweep out the nasty remnants of Paulson. That they didn’t has helped put us where we are now.
One thing not to overlook in your history lesson is that LeBlanc initially tried to gloss over Wilkinson's indiscretion, which led to the players complaining to the league and Wilkinson's departure. LeBlanc lost trust within the fan base with her "Gavinesque" behavior of denial, coverup and insisting that it "wasn't illegal" (as if that was relevant).
This fan was upset by this icky action, and she's done little since to improve my opinion of her. Re-signing Smith was good, getting Muller was good, getting Obaze & Payne may turn out good, and I really hope that Weaver justifies the hefty contract. So it's not all horrible but the farcical coach hirings (three now with zero experience!) really make me wonder. The Bathals sending her off to GM school for 18 months makes me fear that she's charmed them blind. We cannot stagger down this dark alley for two more seasons.
Been saying that since it came out! But, who would've done it? She's basically had no oversight or accountability for the entirety of her tenure...part of the problem and reason she's stuck around so long imo.
All this would be buttressed by a more in-depth analysis of Gale’s initial 6-game streak. He got a pass because of it, but the team didn’t look good for at least half those games. They happened to play a few lackluster opponents and have some things go their way that had nothing to do with any semblance of a coherent system/plan/strategy/set of tactics.
I think the general belief is that Gale was elevated to full time HC too quickly on the heels of the 6 game win streak. I was hopeful, but wanted to see if there was more coaching acumen to be had, but the FO decided they saw enough. Its too bad, because they painted themselves into a corner with the decision. It would have been a lot easier to say the Gale will finish out the season as HC.
It's now all about the ownership. They talked a big game when they took over. They have provided nothing to back all that happy talk up in the least. The club has fallen so far behind that they are going to have to spend a ton of money just to get back to even. Meanwhile, hey look over there, a shiny new WNBA team. Phffft.
Tbh I hope they win these Concacaf games because they are important for the eventual club world cup, and if we get our shit together in the offseason we have a shot (the finals I think are in 2025.)
But I do feel this way about our league games. I feel like it's gonna take a historically bad season to really leave owners no choice and we're already halfway (or more) there...I don't want our good players providing cover for the GM/HC/FO, papering over the very obvious coaching and roster issues. Torn, but it seems it needs to happen now before another year does that much more damage...
Very helpful and needed diagnosis, Chief. Everything about the current. bosses at the Thorns is backwards looking. Sinc: My hero for life and she should play, tactics: Antiquated at best, player management: Incomprehensible. It's true that Saurbrunn is age-defying but we all know that can't last. That she, Klingenberg and Sinclair are taking up not only precious roster spots but even more precious cap space is simply a refusal to let the past go. This is what Emma Hayes has been saying about American soccer. It's why she is not so subtly pushing players to Europe. Time to join the remaining 75% of the 21st century.
Not just late, but with less than 2 minutes to go in stoppage! Our 6 was not even in the picture in the buildup to the winning goal. Interesting strategy for a team in desperate need of points and non-losses.
Great analysis and historical summary of how we got here by Phouc. Well done.
When you see a team walking off the field completely frustrated, I think what that says is that Gale has lost the locker room. I am wondering how many players have tuned him out.
I am wondering, again, whether it's time to put the focus on increasing the playing time of those that have been sitting on the bench waiting for Sinclair to retire.
I'm reluctant to suggest Sauerbrunn retire given that she seems to be the only one who has the ability to instruct the line about what they should be doing. I still remember an article that I read on Equalizer that Sauerbrunn makes the attack better as a result of guiding the back line.
I love Kling. She's among those who I'd prefer announce their retirement (as did Kelly O'Hara) and leave on her own terms.
Since Sinclair appears to not see the value in leaving on her own terms, someone needs to tell her that she's done. Way past the expiration date. Period. End story.
I've skimmed this while I should be working lol, but this was the piece that needed to be written...thank you Phuoc!!
I'm bookmarking to come back and read more thoroughly when I've got more time later. Just off the top of my head...another player that KK brought in that is easy to forget is Vasconcelos. Another NTRP-first-turned-signing player that did pretty much nothing (and is now no longer here.)
It is helpful to have this detailed review. As your excellent analysis shows through a litany of poor decisions, the rebuild has to start with a new General Manager/President of Operations. I believe the sooner the better. Hopefully the Bethels have the resources and skills to recruit a first class person to lead the Thorns.
Obviously it's an academic exercise and moot as of a few weeks ago, but I'm actually curious what the hit rate was for the NWSL Draft for most teams? I only know how to assess that in terms of the NFL Draft and what teams can hope for from a player in each round, ranging from day 1 starter to "hey, he made the practice squad and that's great!"; KK's drafting doesn't look great but I don't know how that compares to other GMs, my understanding was even round 1 picks were largely lottery cards and outside of a couple picks nobody was certain who'd transition and who wouldn't grow from their college days.
Obviously some draft classes have been better than others, but we can say that two clubs in particular drafted very well and made trades to help themselves build/rebuild their clubs - the Western NY Flash and the Portland Thorns.
The Flash selected Dahlkemper, Mewis, Williams, and Hinkle (Daniels) with 4 of the first 7 picks in the 2015 draft.
And, of course, Portland selected Smith and Weaver 1-2 in the 2020 draft.
Timbers are playing at the same time. I have always chosen the Thorns in these situations, but mat have to go with the boys in green tonight. They've at least been entertaining for most of the season.
Karina is a talker, and I'm just guessing that she sold the naive newcomer Bhathals a bill of goods. That should now be abundantly clear to them. If it's not, then we're in deep shit.
I suspect most rich people recognize BS and sycophancy when they see it. Otherwise, they'd have been fleeced long ago. Also, even a rich person knows L-L-L-L-L is not a good thing. Also, they've been in sports for a while and should know generally what coaches and GMs do, and don't do. They may be more patient than we are; not as emotionally invested yet. But I have trouble believing they're being taken for a ride (or if they are, that they don't know it).
It's crazy to me that we have a GM who is being sent to GM school three years into the job rather than trying to find someone else. Is there really such a lack of institutional operations knowledge that this is the best decision they could make?
Sure. I could be wrong, but camp for 18 mos seems like more of a commitment than ongoing PD. And the results that have been laid out so thoroughly suggest more than ongoing PD is needed. But man, that's a long time to wait if the Bathals are expecting this to produce a turnaround.
It’s refreshing to see such a pointed, accurate, thorough, yet fair assessment of the situation. I’ve made excuses for some of the FO moves with respect to the sale, maintaining some continuity with the upheaval and coaching changes, Olympic and World Cup years, etc. but nobody top to bottom has done as well as they could and should have even under adverse conditions. I’d entertain firing the whole staff minus Lowdon, including Norris and LeBlanc, to start a turnaround. We’ll look like clowns firing another coach so soon but we set ourselves back even more the longer we wait. There will be some fans who will see the new owners as too pragmatic or ruthless if they fire the lot, but it’s a statement of intent that needs to be made. We will lose great players to free agency and won’t attract and retain the best talent if we don’t quickly show we are moving in the right direction and that we mean business, that we aren’t just a place for Canadians to go to retire. We are embarrassing right now. That’s worse than bad.
"we aren’t just a place for Canadians to go to retire"
LOL
I mean, Oregon IS Canada's California, after all.
Ahem, I believe we're also a place for Canadians to train before big international tournaments.
Tnank you Phuoc for putting this summary of frustrations (and plea for action) out there where, hopefully, the ownership may notice it. I imagine this won't endear you to the team if they start to see you as an independent critical eye, and that their actions/inactions are, in fact being scrutinized.
Hopefully they can see the greater good in an honest media not afraid to be critical when it's appropriate, and that the Thorns organization will be better off in the long run for it.
THANK YOU!
I tend to push the “beginning of the end” even further back - to the end of Parsons tenure and the Riley scandal breaking in 2020-2021. The troubles caused by Paulson’s increasingly erratic and irresponsible behavior, his unwillingness to expedite the sale and lack of investment in the club during that period…it built up a store of problems the ‘22 star just kind of papered over.
It’s easy to forget the ugly start to ‘22, with points dropped as Wilkinson persisted in Gale-esque tactical errors (the 3-5-2!) and playing people out of position. I’m glad the club came back to win the semi on a late Dunn banger then rolled over a hapless KCC…but that season hung by a thread as often as not.
And as Richard points out - LeBlanc’s handwaving l’affaire Mengesson AND doxing the players whom it worried is a play right out of the Paulson Era book.
That’s why I’d hoped the Bhathals would come in hot and sweep out the nasty remnants of Paulson. That they didn’t has helped put us where we are now.
One thing not to overlook in your history lesson is that LeBlanc initially tried to gloss over Wilkinson's indiscretion, which led to the players complaining to the league and Wilkinson's departure. LeBlanc lost trust within the fan base with her "Gavinesque" behavior of denial, coverup and insisting that it "wasn't illegal" (as if that was relevant).
This fan was upset by this icky action, and she's done little since to improve my opinion of her. Re-signing Smith was good, getting Muller was good, getting Obaze & Payne may turn out good, and I really hope that Weaver justifies the hefty contract. So it's not all horrible but the farcical coach hirings (three now with zero experience!) really make me wonder. The Bathals sending her off to GM school for 18 months makes me fear that she's charmed them blind. We cannot stagger down this dark alley for two more seasons.
Yup, big same! And here's a quick refresher of that letter:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qYorWe1Quwdyr5DlzOQmxlVLngxkFbo7SisvXx_FiEU/mobilebasic
first I have seen that. I am actually surprised leblanc was not terminated with cause based on the statements in that letter.
Been saying that since it came out! But, who would've done it? She's basically had no oversight or accountability for the entirety of her tenure...part of the problem and reason she's stuck around so long imo.
I'd argue that the coach-hire fails go a long way to negating even the good player signings. "A pride of lionesses led by donkeys"...
All this would be buttressed by a more in-depth analysis of Gale’s initial 6-game streak. He got a pass because of it, but the team didn’t look good for at least half those games. They happened to play a few lackluster opponents and have some things go their way that had nothing to do with any semblance of a coherent system/plan/strategy/set of tactics.
I think the general belief is that Gale was elevated to full time HC too quickly on the heels of the 6 game win streak. I was hopeful, but wanted to see if there was more coaching acumen to be had, but the FO decided they saw enough. Its too bad, because they painted themselves into a corner with the decision. It would have been a lot easier to say the Gale will finish out the season as HC.
It's now all about the ownership. They talked a big game when they took over. They have provided nothing to back all that happy talk up in the least. The club has fallen so far behind that they are going to have to spend a ton of money just to get back to even. Meanwhile, hey look over there, a shiny new WNBA team. Phffft.
Am I kinda crazy for hoping we lose tonight? I think winning would be a red herring and perhaps delay tough decision making by the owners.
Tbh I hope they win these Concacaf games because they are important for the eventual club world cup, and if we get our shit together in the offseason we have a shot (the finals I think are in 2025.)
But I do feel this way about our league games. I feel like it's gonna take a historically bad season to really leave owners no choice and we're already halfway (or more) there...I don't want our good players providing cover for the GM/HC/FO, papering over the very obvious coaching and roster issues. Torn, but it seems it needs to happen now before another year does that much more damage...
You got your wish!
I'm not so much hoping for a loss in any game, but I'm hoping the truth of our situation and need for changes is apparent to all as soon as possible.
I'm looking at it like a practice match. Gale will mix and match players and strategies to see what he can come up with that looks like it will work.
The players will be trying to decide whether they want to come back next season if Gale stays on as coach for another year.
Late but apropos of this post; Riveting! match report: https://rivetingpdx.com/2024/09/17/thorns-fc-empty/
Very helpful and needed diagnosis, Chief. Everything about the current. bosses at the Thorns is backwards looking. Sinc: My hero for life and she should play, tactics: Antiquated at best, player management: Incomprehensible. It's true that Saurbrunn is age-defying but we all know that can't last. That she, Klingenberg and Sinclair are taking up not only precious roster spots but even more precious cap space is simply a refusal to let the past go. This is what Emma Hayes has been saying about American soccer. It's why she is not so subtly pushing players to Europe. Time to join the remaining 75% of the 21st century.
"Ken is trying to make Sam Coffey sit deep as a pure destroyer."
Perhaps, but that doesn't explain Coffey making at least two deep runs into the box late in the Chicago game.
Did you see the para in the Coffey comment how Ken either let her off the leash after the break or she just said “Fuck you, Jobu, I do it myself.”?
THAT explains the runs, and her monster attacking PMR in the second half.
Did not. But yeah, that takes care of that. Gracias!
Not just late, but with less than 2 minutes to go in stoppage! Our 6 was not even in the picture in the buildup to the winning goal. Interesting strategy for a team in desperate need of points and non-losses.
Great analysis and historical summary of how we got here by Phouc. Well done.
When you see a team walking off the field completely frustrated, I think what that says is that Gale has lost the locker room. I am wondering how many players have tuned him out.
I am wondering, again, whether it's time to put the focus on increasing the playing time of those that have been sitting on the bench waiting for Sinclair to retire.
I'm reluctant to suggest Sauerbrunn retire given that she seems to be the only one who has the ability to instruct the line about what they should be doing. I still remember an article that I read on Equalizer that Sauerbrunn makes the attack better as a result of guiding the back line.
I love Kling. She's among those who I'd prefer announce their retirement (as did Kelly O'Hara) and leave on her own terms.
Since Sinclair appears to not see the value in leaving on her own terms, someone needs to tell her that she's done. Way past the expiration date. Period. End story.
Yup, way past the expiration date, but still has just about the best vision and touch on the team, sadly.
just doesn't do much good when you can't keep uo with the Olay and are not occupying needed spaces on offense and defense.
Agree with all these sentiments, I've posted similar and stronger statements the past few weeks.
But does anyone know anything about how Hina Sugita is - looked like a nasty injury to an awesome player.
I've skimmed this while I should be working lol, but this was the piece that needed to be written...thank you Phuoc!!
I'm bookmarking to come back and read more thoroughly when I've got more time later. Just off the top of my head...another player that KK brought in that is easy to forget is Vasconcelos. Another NTRP-first-turned-signing player that did pretty much nothing (and is now no longer here.)
Btw, the Bhathals follow Phuoc/STF on twitter so go show your love and support to him in the comments over there because they'll likely see it.
When reporters pursue accountability I think it's extra important they receive community support.
It is helpful to have this detailed review. As your excellent analysis shows through a litany of poor decisions, the rebuild has to start with a new General Manager/President of Operations. I believe the sooner the better. Hopefully the Bethels have the resources and skills to recruit a first class person to lead the Thorns.
STF folks/Phuoc- I hope y'all keep this article pinned until changes are made, and I hope you also repost it on twitter every time we lose a game.
To summarize Phuoc's summarization of Karina's tenure, which began in November 2021
- 3 permanent head coach hires
- 12 draft picks selected; only 7 remain and 3 are likely to leave after 2024
- 1 draft pick (out of 12) has been extended
- 4 players acquired through trade; 3 remain
- 9 players acquired through transfer or loan; 5 remain
- 6 GKs on the roster at one time
Obviously it's an academic exercise and moot as of a few weeks ago, but I'm actually curious what the hit rate was for the NWSL Draft for most teams? I only know how to assess that in terms of the NFL Draft and what teams can hope for from a player in each round, ranging from day 1 starter to "hey, he made the practice squad and that's great!"; KK's drafting doesn't look great but I don't know how that compares to other GMs, my understanding was even round 1 picks were largely lottery cards and outside of a couple picks nobody was certain who'd transition and who wouldn't grow from their college days.
Obviously some draft classes have been better than others, but we can say that two clubs in particular drafted very well and made trades to help themselves build/rebuild their clubs - the Western NY Flash and the Portland Thorns.
The Flash selected Dahlkemper, Mewis, Williams, and Hinkle (Daniels) with 4 of the first 7 picks in the 2015 draft.
And, of course, Portland selected Smith and Weaver 1-2 in the 2020 draft.
Thorns play SD in North Tijuana tonight @ 7PM. CONCACAF W Champions Cup. NWSL 6th v NWSL 12th.
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/concacaf-w-champions-cup-schedule-standings-scores-how-to-watch-on-cbs-sports-paramount/
Viewable tonight on the CBS Sports Golazo Network.
Don't blame me if you choose to watch it!
Timbers are playing at the same time. I have always chosen the Thorns in these situations, but mat have to go with the boys in green tonight. They've at least been entertaining for most of the season.
"Don't blame me if you choose to watch it!"
:-D :-D :-D ROFL
Karina is a talker, and I'm just guessing that she sold the naive newcomer Bhathals a bill of goods. That should now be abundantly clear to them. If it's not, then we're in deep shit.
I suspect most rich people recognize BS and sycophancy when they see it. Otherwise, they'd have been fleeced long ago. Also, even a rich person knows L-L-L-L-L is not a good thing. Also, they've been in sports for a while and should know generally what coaches and GMs do, and don't do. They may be more patient than we are; not as emotionally invested yet. But I have trouble believing they're being taken for a ride (or if they are, that they don't know it).
I mean, if it is true that they are sending her to a camp for 18 months to learn how to do the job, it is unlikely they're going to get rid of her.
I very much could be wrong, but I don't think it makes sense to invest in her like that if you're planning on letting her go.
It's crazy to me that we have a GM who is being sent to GM school three years into the job rather than trying to find someone else. Is there really such a lack of institutional operations knowledge that this is the best decision they could make?
I don't mind ongoing professional development. I DO mind our GM's mediocre record, which Phuouc did an incredible job of laying out there.
Sure. I could be wrong, but camp for 18 mos seems like more of a commitment than ongoing PD. And the results that have been laid out so thoroughly suggest more than ongoing PD is needed. But man, that's a long time to wait if the Bathals are expecting this to produce a turnaround.
I agree. The Thorns should be going after the person(s) TEACHING the camp, not the flunky they are trying to bring up to a C average.
At the very least, maybe she'll expand her network for the next "world wide" coaching search.
And that's what scares me.
Eighteen months? We could have two-three more coaches in that time.
We'll have a WNBA team starting its inaugural season in that time.