We were debating on the walk home whether winning the Cascadia Cup is better than being the only Cascadia team to miss the playoffs. I'm honestly not sure.
I really don’t pay any attention to the Cascadia Cup. It’s a pure fiction. I only cared about doing well in the playoffs and this is deeply disappointing. Off-season changes anyone? Luckily I am getting the news on vacation in the French Alps so that allows me a little detachment.
It's not a fiction, though. It's been a thing for 20 years. Whether you care about it or not is up to you, but it has existed as a thing longer than the MLS Portland Timbers, MLS Seattle Sounders, or MLS Vancouver Whitecaps have, so it carries regional pride for a lot of people at least.
That doesn't mean an early exit from this season doesn't hurt though.
Been following the Timbers closely for 24 years now, and this is really the lowest of the low. Not only has the defense put up no effort at all, the "powerful three" of our offense has barely shown up. It's not like we are losing 5-3 where at least there was a Timbers offense on the field.
We didn't show up. There's no heart, no effort, no passion, no pride, and it's so sad to see. Will there be a cleaning of the house after this? You'd think so, but somehow I doubt it.
The real problem is our owner, of course. He thinks just spending big on one or two players cuts it in today's mls. Not really especially for a smaller market team with a bare cupboard academy and a mls next pro team that can't produce anybody for the first team. If we could somethow get MP to sell - and that's a big if - maybe there would be change. Starting with the FO and the coaching from the first team to the academy.
Well there is a salary cap that restricts how many players we can spend big on. The problem is that we have a bad scouting department. They aren't good at finding players on the cheap that can make an impact. In mls ALL teams spend on offense and spend what they can on defense. It's why mls is a scoring league and not defensively sound league. They go big on offense and cheap on defense. It's why no player in mls should be on the national team unless they are performing at a very high level.
The amazing thing is Pantemis really hasn't been responsible for any of the goals. The defense just gave up, in all three instances. We saw this many times this year, then they got their act together, a bit, as the season progressed, but the poor defense is back and on full display tonight, and we are deservedly paying for it.
I know some folks feel like Pantemis should have been starting ahead of Max - that the defense played better in front of him. But as you've said, the defense has been poor tonight as it has been that way in too many games this season. Just me but don't really think it makes that much of a difference as to who the starter is between Crepeau or Pantemis with regard to the back line. If it's about distribution, that's a different story. But this back line is just sorta playing the way they've been all season.
I tried to get to this one but it just didn't work out. Midweek games are hard with my new work schedule. But the Timbers tend to do well in games I miss, so ...
Phil can’t rah rah this team to victory. The previous coach tried to do that. “Mentality” is the job of the coach and so are tactics. The TA can’t “pull the ball into the net.”This is on Phil and Ned. They need to raise the bar to the expectations that a top of the League team has. The fans deserve and have earned that. It’s been years. Find a defense. Make better acquisitions.
Just to play the counterpoint, I mean on some level the players play the game, right? I’m not absolving Phil here, but the bottom line is he’s not on the pitch choking and giving up horrible goals or disappearing on offense at the worst time of the season, is he? This is on the players, plain and simple.
It's both, honestly. The players need to perform, but the coach also needs to set them up to be in the best position to be able to perform. That has to be more than "NOW LET'S GO OUT THERE AND DO IT FOR THE HOME CROWD, BOYS".
That has to be actionable tactics, strategy, and a plan, and it has to be from a guy who doesn't then casually throw unnamed players under the bus after a bad performance in the name of "motivation" or whatever.
I'm not at training, not in the locker room, but seeing what I see and hearing what I hear from Phil, he absolutely looks like a guy who mostly coaches from the gut. Whether that works for every player or not, who knows? But I think that style of coaching has its limits, and I think we're seeing what that looks like playing out in real time when he has a squad that also has its limits. With a more talented squad, he might get better results, but this team - particularly on the defensive side - needs actual coaching, not just vibes.
Well said and don’t disagree. Was going to come back and add that I think Phil mismanaged this game. Down 3-0 with 15 or 20 minutes still left in the half or whatever it was, changes needed to be made. Finn should have been in there, Mora & Rodriguez should have been pulled, Toye in, etc etc. I mean not like the bench is full of Messi’s but still.
This entire night was a complete effing embarrassment. Down 4-0 I turned to my buddy and jokingly said kind of wish they would just score again and then we’d know it was time to leave. Swear to God three seconds later they scored. 🤦🏻♂️
Vibes only get a team so far. Phil's vibes are good and it's arguable that this team absolutely needed some good vibes after the late Gio years, but we know now the limits of "vibe coaching", and they ain't pretty. Better players, actual tactics, and a Plan B when things aren't going well are essential, and at both Miami and here, Phil hasn't shown a whole lot of any of the three (only two of which, of course, he's in complete control of).
In high school soccer they end the game if one team leads by 8 goals. It's called the mercy rule. Five feels like a reasonable pro equivalent to the high school mercy rule.
I sorta there myself except for Phil's contract. And we gave Gio a real long leash to hang himeself - even with making mls cup final and winning the covid tournament - so maybe give Neville another year. Also, I'm now on the #NG out wagon. He's the one who said this roster was adequate and stood pat on the defense. Sure Phil wanted K Miller but what about the other guys?
I won't pretend to understand the financial side of the game but I'm sure NG can spend what MP provides and it just isn't enough anymore. Also Timbers teams of the past would at least play pissed off and so far I'm not seeing that passion.
May everyone here have a peaceful rest of their year. Remember to vote, be kind to your fellow humans, say no to fascists. Good night and good luck
Save of the night right here. Good night and good luck to you too!
Would that I had more than one rec for this. Same to you, friend.
Already voted. Remember, no matter the outcome don't burn down portland.
At this point the only honorable move is give the Cascadia Cup back to Vancouver. This team deserves nothing.
We were debating on the walk home whether winning the Cascadia Cup is better than being the only Cascadia team to miss the playoffs. I'm honestly not sure.
I really don’t pay any attention to the Cascadia Cup. It’s a pure fiction. I only cared about doing well in the playoffs and this is deeply disappointing. Off-season changes anyone? Luckily I am getting the news on vacation in the French Alps so that allows me a little detachment.
It's not a fiction, though. It's been a thing for 20 years. Whether you care about it or not is up to you, but it has existed as a thing longer than the MLS Portland Timbers, MLS Seattle Sounders, or MLS Vancouver Whitecaps have, so it carries regional pride for a lot of people at least.
That doesn't mean an early exit from this season doesn't hurt though.
Been following the Timbers closely for 24 years now, and this is really the lowest of the low. Not only has the defense put up no effort at all, the "powerful three" of our offense has barely shown up. It's not like we are losing 5-3 where at least there was a Timbers offense on the field.
We didn't show up. There's no heart, no effort, no passion, no pride, and it's so sad to see. Will there be a cleaning of the house after this? You'd think so, but somehow I doubt it.
The real problem is our owner, of course. He thinks just spending big on one or two players cuts it in today's mls. Not really especially for a smaller market team with a bare cupboard academy and a mls next pro team that can't produce anybody for the first team. If we could somethow get MP to sell - and that's a big if - maybe there would be change. Starting with the FO and the coaching from the first team to the academy.
Well there is a salary cap that restricts how many players we can spend big on. The problem is that we have a bad scouting department. They aren't good at finding players on the cheap that can make an impact. In mls ALL teams spend on offense and spend what they can on defense. It's why mls is a scoring league and not defensively sound league. They go big on offense and cheap on defense. It's why no player in mls should be on the national team unless they are performing at a very high level.
What is Chara thinking? That was clearly a 2nd yellow.
The amazing thing is Pantemis really hasn't been responsible for any of the goals. The defense just gave up, in all three instances. We saw this many times this year, then they got their act together, a bit, as the season progressed, but the poor defense is back and on full display tonight, and we are deservedly paying for it.
I know some folks feel like Pantemis should have been starting ahead of Max - that the defense played better in front of him. But as you've said, the defense has been poor tonight as it has been that way in too many games this season. Just me but don't really think it makes that much of a difference as to who the starter is between Crepeau or Pantemis with regard to the back line. If it's about distribution, that's a different story. But this back line is just sorta playing the way they've been all season.
Win or we're out. Despite the criticisms that I have about the team, I am willing to go down with the ship. So team, let's do this.
The season ticket sales staff can probably take the rest of the week off.
Pour it on, Whitecaps. We deserve it. And maybe the point will finally be made.
Ooh. That Timbers fan they showed in a Lakers hat. Gross. This is all on him.
I tried to get to this one but it just didn't work out. Midweek games are hard with my new work schedule. But the Timbers tend to do well in games I miss, so ...
Go Timbers!
Phil can’t rah rah this team to victory. The previous coach tried to do that. “Mentality” is the job of the coach and so are tactics. The TA can’t “pull the ball into the net.”This is on Phil and Ned. They need to raise the bar to the expectations that a top of the League team has. The fans deserve and have earned that. It’s been years. Find a defense. Make better acquisitions.
Just to play the counterpoint, I mean on some level the players play the game, right? I’m not absolving Phil here, but the bottom line is he’s not on the pitch choking and giving up horrible goals or disappearing on offense at the worst time of the season, is he? This is on the players, plain and simple.
It's both, honestly. The players need to perform, but the coach also needs to set them up to be in the best position to be able to perform. That has to be more than "NOW LET'S GO OUT THERE AND DO IT FOR THE HOME CROWD, BOYS".
That has to be actionable tactics, strategy, and a plan, and it has to be from a guy who doesn't then casually throw unnamed players under the bus after a bad performance in the name of "motivation" or whatever.
I'm not at training, not in the locker room, but seeing what I see and hearing what I hear from Phil, he absolutely looks like a guy who mostly coaches from the gut. Whether that works for every player or not, who knows? But I think that style of coaching has its limits, and I think we're seeing what that looks like playing out in real time when he has a squad that also has its limits. With a more talented squad, he might get better results, but this team - particularly on the defensive side - needs actual coaching, not just vibes.
Well said and don’t disagree. Was going to come back and add that I think Phil mismanaged this game. Down 3-0 with 15 or 20 minutes still left in the half or whatever it was, changes needed to be made. Finn should have been in there, Mora & Rodriguez should have been pulled, Toye in, etc etc. I mean not like the bench is full of Messi’s but still.
This entire night was a complete effing embarrassment. Down 4-0 I turned to my buddy and jokingly said kind of wish they would just score again and then we’d know it was time to leave. Swear to God three seconds later they scored. 🤦🏻♂️
Vibes only get a team so far. Phil's vibes are good and it's arguable that this team absolutely needed some good vibes after the late Gio years, but we know now the limits of "vibe coaching", and they ain't pretty. Better players, actual tactics, and a Plan B when things aren't going well are essential, and at both Miami and here, Phil hasn't shown a whole lot of any of the three (only two of which, of course, he's in complete control of).
In high school soccer they end the game if one team leads by 8 goals. It's called the mercy rule. Five feels like a reasonable pro equivalent to the high school mercy rule.
Chara is just asking to get ejected at this point. Sub him now Phil.
#PhilOut
I'm ready for #EveryoneOut This is is embarrassing
I sorta there myself except for Phil's contract. And we gave Gio a real long leash to hang himeself - even with making mls cup final and winning the covid tournament - so maybe give Neville another year. Also, I'm now on the #NG out wagon. He's the one who said this roster was adequate and stood pat on the defense. Sure Phil wanted K Miller but what about the other guys?
I won't pretend to understand the financial side of the game but I'm sure NG can spend what MP provides and it just isn't enough anymore. Also Timbers teams of the past would at least play pissed off and so far I'm not seeing that passion.
Chara is super lucky to not get sent-off for that trip
I'm willing to let San Diego have all our defenders except for Zup and Surman. Just take them all for some GAM - whatever we can get.
Just take all of them. Ridgewell too.
Throw Chara in too. Unlikely to be taken so can protect a more valuable. He's not got much longer to go anyway.
he's out of contract.
Thought he had one more year. I hope the F. O. does the right thing, but it's the Timbers, so I'm not holding my breath.
More valuable player, that is. If we have any of value.