Timbers signing Kamal Miller! Ngl I don’t know much about him in terms of how good he is, but lots of people really like him. MLS experience at the back which is VITAL, I’m so thrilled Ned got someone like that for that spot because we’ve desperately needed leadership and experience there. Only 26 so he and Zac could be a great pairing, and they’re international teammates! Plus Neville was an assistant coach to them for Canada this past year. $625k + an international slot seems like a steal for him too. On paper, to me, this is a really great move! I’m not used to this
For reference, we traded Tuiloma for $800k + $100k in incentives. An international roster slot is priced around $150-175k right now. Miller should be a pretty big upgrade over Tuiloma. His salary last year was $420k guaranteed. Good business!
...I think. Again, don’t know much about him besides a lot of people seem to like him. Maybe Araujo ends up being the starter over him, idk. Also it’s concerning that we have three international center backs. When the international break comes, we are screwed if McGraw is called up.
I like this. He's good and he's consistent. One of those guys who isn't super flashy, won't make a lot of highlight-reel defensive plays, but always is where he needs to be and is good at getting the job done. He's also good at playing the ball out of the back and helping the buildup; I have no idea how Neville wants to play here, but obviously he liked Miller enough to pay to bring him here, so.
Also young, as you point out, which is great news. Ned did pretty good here, for sure.
Apparently he started nearly all games once he arrived in Miami. Sounds like a solid center back, which we desperately need. Anyone know what Miami fans think of him?
So what I’ve gathered from Miami and Canadian fans is that he’s generally pretty good but is prone to bad mistakes and getting burned. Not very fast and can get caught for speed on counters. Can have some amazing games and moments from time to time. Pretty average on the ball. Likes to get forward but can’t do much up there. Will hustle and give 100% and be a great locker room presence. Strong. He’s probably not going to blow us away consistently but will be a good, solid, MLS center back.
For the price that seems like a great deal, should be a sizable upgrade over Tuiloma for a similar price. Plus should have chemistry with McGraw and Neville. Domestic center backs with MLS experience are always worth it in my opinion, they generally come with less risk than international center backs. A few concerns I have is that it seems like Miller and McGraw would be a pretty slow pairing and could get burned by quick forwards (looking at you, Denis Bouanga...), and if Miller is mistake prone that might not be a great pairing with Bravo on the left side of defense, who is also prone to over committing and getting burned. Other than that I’m pretty happy with this signing
How so? Downgrade over Zuparic you think? Could be right on an individual level and maybe as a whole, but chemistry and familiarity with the league is a big deal. Plus, Zuparic is 31. Miller is 26, with a salary (if it stays the same) less than half of Dario’s
There is some control over international breaks though. GW always said "f-it, we are playing" in an attempt to manage schedule congestion elsewhere. Many MLS teams don't play through every international break though. Not saying we have complete control and I strongly suspect there will be times when what now appears to be our starting center backs are both gone for Canada ... but this pain can be managed to some degree.
Other than that, I like this signing too. I am still confused about Mabiala (per above discussion), but we will find out soon enough whether he is back as a reserve for 2024 or actually out of contract. I think the later, but perhaps there was an option or extension that was never announced along the way. His last announced contract was "multi-year" in 3 years ago and the Timbers would have been crazy to sign him until age 37 already showing signs of being unable to keep up at 33.
Zuparic under contract until end of 2025, but stated he wants to be moved. Have seen no smoke nor fire with the movement piece there, but Miller's signing suggests that is now possible.
Araujo - who knows. From what I saw he looks like the #3 option at best. Maybe he will prove us wrong and be way better in 2024, but no breath holding.
Still going to need more depth at CB if Zup and/or Mabs leave, so lets not get too carried away on expectations when we sign a couple of value propositions / projects to be #4 and 5 on the CB depth chart.
Looks good. Good pace. Good technique. His numbers on the production end are not that great but he is 22 and the production side of his game can come. All of his other abilities are there. If I were to rate him I would give him a 7. He is a lefty but can use both feet. Really good at set pieces and crosses. Soccer IQ might be the biggest issue putting the production to paper, because he has all the attributes to be a good player. Not buonga level but he is still young.
I wish there was more transparency about contracts. I truly thought Mabiala was out of contract at the end of this year and that next year would be a club option for Yimmi, so I'm disappointed we're still saddled with them.
Not sure it's always 100% accurate, but it's usually pretty reliable. And it does look like Yimmi's out of contract at the end of the week (MLS contracts run through 12/31 of their expiration year). Which, if true, means either the Timbers are working to extend him or they're just letting the deal expire with no comment/action on their part. OLive (I think - I can't find the link/mention now) mentioned the other day that a club in Colombia's interested in signing him, so I still don't expect him to be back with the Timbers next season.
3 out of top4 gone or on way out with a couple spots likely freeing come 12/31. Hopefully timbers ready to pull trigger during euro transfer window so can start new season near full strength and aren't having to claw our way back
I hope so too but I suspect we’ll still be behind. It’s unfortunate that the calendars don’t align so we often have to wait until the summer window to have the best prospects. I don’t see how Neville would be much of a draw as a coach but maybe other people are more impressed by what his playing career might suggest about his potential than I am.
Oh, according to this, Hunter Sulte is out of contract too? That would make signing 3 goalkeepers make more sense. I figured 3 for the first team and one for T2 is pretty standard. If he would still qualify for Homegrown status it might make sense to bring him back, if he wants. I wasn't impressed by what little I saw of him but I saw next to nothing of him under the worst circumstances so I don't think that counts for much. I'd be okay with giving him more time if the powers that be think he's got potential.
Also, Mabiala, which I suspected. Some are speaking of him as if he's still here for another year. It is confusing.
The language on timbers.com is "current roster status ahead of the 2024 season" (as of Nov 30). It looks like many contracts run through 12/31/2023, so not through the 2024 season. According to Capology, Sulte's is one of them. Transfermarkt doesn't have the expiration but agrees on the signing date. The signing was announced in November 2020 but apparently didn't go into effect until January 1, 2021, which seems normal.
So, Sulte was signed in 2021. Contracts seem to typically be for 2 or 3 years, with a 1 or 2 year option. I would usually think it would be safe to assume Sulte is on a 3-year with a 1-year, meaning 2024 would be an option. But the club said nothing about an option one way or the other, and they haven't thanked him for his service, so he's probably still around? But I don't think it is exactly crystal clear. Chara, Blanco, Niezgoda, Williamson, Boli, Mabiala, Asprilla, Miller, Bingham, Rasmussen, Gutierrez, and Caliskan are/were in the same camp according to Capology. We know Blanco, Niezgoda, Miller, Bingham, Rasmussen, Gutierrez, and Caliskan had their options declined, though we were still in discussions with Miller and Bingham (and Blanco to a point) to bring them back. Acosta wasn't on capology's 12/31/2023 list for some reason but we are/were still trying to bring him back too. We picked up Boli's option but he declined. Asprilla is a free agent now but I don't know if anyone has said anything about his status. It seems we must have picked up Chara's option so we could get some value from him in sale/trade but that was never announced, as far as I know. I expect the same is true of Williamson but there's been silence on that front as well. Mabiala and Sulte remain the biggest uncertainties IMHO. I think we can infer a lot but the information out there points to 12/31 expirations and/or quietly picking up option years. I don't have an opinion on Sulte really but would prefer Mabiala not return, at least not for what we were paying him. I don't know why the FO would be so coy about it. It's also possible that capology and transfermarkt don't have accurate info?
The announcement of roster status says who is under contract for next year. That's the whole point of the announcement and of teams having to give this list to the league before the trade window opens. Capology is wrong.
That makes sense but it's poorly communicated. Makes me wonder where Capology and Transfermarkt get their info. Bottom line, I wish there was more transparency and clarity in MLS (and NWSL).
There’s definitely a few discrepancies on that site, since we now know from the Timbers’ end-of-year roster status update that Yimmi and Mabiala are (unfortunately) under contract for next year, as well as Williamson and Asprilla, all of whom are listed there as their contracts expiring in five days. The salaries are also all out of wack and don’t line up with the MLSPA salary lists at all. I’m very curious to know how they’re getting their salary numbers since they seem extremely inflated.
Either way, more and more reports from Columbia are saying Yimmi is on his way back already and the deal is basically done, so I definitely expect that to be announced pretty soon. As for Mabiala... I thought for sure he was out of contract as well, but oh well. He’s a leader in the locker room, and his contract isn’t terribly massive I guess (it’s massive relative to his role in the team), so having him around might not be the worst thing in the world in a team that is in dire need of leadership, especially with all the turnover that is (hopefully) coming
Whoops, totally looked at the wrong column on the salary part, ignore what I said there. I was looking at the gross remaining, not the per year category. Wish I could edit on mobile. My bad lol
Thanks. I was unfamiliar with that site. I’ve been wondering about how to interpret the contracts ending 12/31. Like, saying they’re still under contract is technically accurate but it seems like whether they’re under contract next season is the pertinent question.
I know there have been times we’ve picked up a player’s option with the intention of selling or trading them so we retain their rights and can get some $ for them. Seems a gamble but if they’ve got a deal worked out…
I think if the end date is 12/31/23, it's safe to assume there's no contract currently in place for 2024. I have no idea whether YC's contract contains an option, but I'm interpreting the silence here as "evidence" that it might. If he was truly done here, they would have said something by now, and with only a few days left in the year that may mean they're trying to find a way to return some value for him.
If the rumors I saw about him returning to Colombia are true, it may be that they exercise an option on him, then trade him. If he's truly out of contract, that wouldn't be an issue and he'd just walk.
TL;DR: nobody knows anything and I'm just guessing here...hahaha.
I think you’re right. I figured we’d just have to decline his option and let him go but it’s better if we can get some $ for him. I wouldn’t want to be stuck with him another year at DP level, so it’s a risk. I think they’d want to keep Diego happy by not screwing Yimmi too.
This may be some sort of Timber sacrilege, but I could not care less if ditching YC makes Diego unhappy. The Timbers should be making roster decisions based on talent alone. Diego knows it's a business, and if the Timbers decide to move on from YC, that should not in any way impact Diego's commitment to this team. If it does, that says more about Diego than I think anyone would want to hear.
So two gk that aren't starting quality. I seriously have a feeling Merritt is gonna take this team to moneyball town from here on out. Cheap players and old free agent players. I have no faith that Merritt will make this team an mls contender.
This isn't even "moneyball". This is "let's build a team on the cheap". Moneyball, as a term, implies there's some undervalued-by-other-teams skillset or value for money being spent, and this isn't that as much as it is 'we need warm bodies'.
They’re two backups. Really can’t make any bigger conclusions like that from those moves. Ones a young guy who did well in a lower league, and ones an old veteran. That’s probably the ideal backup situation to have at keeper. I’m actually really happy we got a USL kid, maybe he turns out to be great and I’m sure he’s cheap. I hope he’s the number 2, I remember seeing some really awful howlers from Pantemis a few years back. Tom Bogert said we aren’t done at keeper, so I expect us to sign a starter, and I really hope it’s a good one. We need a rock back there to anchor our back line.
This does suggest that Bingham is out though, which I’m not happy about, I felt he did very well when he was in a backup role. He made lots of great saves and saved our ass on several occasions, the problems only came when he was a starter for more than 3 games. Perhaps getting a young keeper suggests Sulte is also out? Seems like he lost his spot to Bilichuk at T2. Who knows
This is the best news I could imagine going into 2024. I wish him as a person no ill, but he belonged nowhere near the 2024 Timbers and I'm glad he's not a part of the plans going forward.
Yeah, something about this says Evander wants out. "Flamengo are in talks with his representatives" that alone is highly unprofessional. The first thing flamengo should be doing is talking to Portland to see if there is any chance they sell. Not go to the player first. That tells me that they are trying to force a sell. And the fact its a Brazilian team, tells me that he probably somehow instigated it. Either way the whole thing is suspicious.
I saw a report that Flamengo *did* actually make an offer for Evander, but it was a laughable $5.5 million. No idea on the veracity of the report, though...
And again, the word "interested" is doing a looooooooot of heavy lifting here.
JOURNALIST, BORED AT HIS DESK WITH NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT:
/picks up phone
/calls contact at club
/says "hey would you be interested in signing this guy?"
CLUB CONTACT:
/picks up phone
/hears question
/says "yes, he's a good player and anyone would be interested in him, although we are not currently pursuing him nor have we talked to anyone about him, as he's under contract with another club"
Don’t see it happening. I can see Evander perhaps not being happy here and wanting to go to Brazil, but we have him locked down for several years and it would be basically punting the season if we sold our best player a month before preseason starts. That only adds another (MASSIVE) item on the shopping list for this offseason, and considering how slow we’ve moved thus far on signing players, I don’t see us being able to replace him. We have the cards and I just don’t see us agreeing, unless they somehow give us $15+ million
given his central role in this team 15 million + minimum and a sell on fee considering in 3 years he will be in his prime. Even then he is so gifted would hate to do this.
I do think it is a decision point for the Timbers though. Is Evander really the guy that the new boss wants? If not, there is no reason to prolong the sham (other than possibly increasing the selling price - but the risk is he gets injured and the other edge of that sword swings).
It really depends on factors we as fans are not privy to. Do we have the budget and ability to move a different direction and is there someone out there interested? If the answers are no, no and no - welp, why move him? If the answers are yes, yes, and yes and he wants to go, the offer is good, well - you have to at least consider doing it.
Agreed on Yimmi, but I haven’t experienced such lack of confidence in this front office/ownership since the Spencer era. Bingham isn’t even average for MLS, so why they even are stringing him along at this point makes no sense if they are really serious about improving the GK position. These first two hires aren’t exactly ready for prime time, so an imminent high end keeper better be on the near horizon.
So I'm gonna throw this out there, the Timbers need to sign Matthew Corcoran from Birmingham Legion in USL. I've watched him play the last two seasons and he's legit. Just got a call up to the US under 23 team. He's the kind of player we need to target for our future. I'd love to see him develop with Williamson and Evander.
Bet Dallas has his MLS rights. Maybe he could fill Caliskan's vacancy? If he stays at Birmingham he'd actually get to play though. Also looks like he'd be more competition for Ayala than a Caliskan replacement. Regardless of any talent he's got, it's hard to figure out where he fits with respect to roster and cap space until Diego Chara retires. Wait, if we don't re-sign Bryan Acosta, we'd have an opening there.
I know nothing about either of those two keepers, but "Muse, a 24-year-old former Sounders homegrown player from Tukwila, Washington (yep, he’s crossing enemy lines!) has spent the last three seasons bouncing around the USL Championship" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Pantemis having 40 MLS starts is good, I guess, but considering those 40 starts are spread out over six years, and considering Montreal ultimately let him go without much fuss...again I'm not sure this is The Guy. But I was very wrong about Steve Clark when he came here, I thought he'd be a disaster, so I'm willing to be proven wrong by either of these two.
I wish this FO would take the GK position seriously. They let Clark go over some money, signed Bingham, who dropped out of MLS and couldn't sign a deal for a couple years just because he was around in training. Now they want to sign a young guy who plays a bit in USL and a guy who seems not unlike Bingham, if he was great he'd be signed but he's not so PTFC will get a good deal on him. He played 2 games last season
gamesDon't know anything about Pantemis, but Muse played at Indiana University in 17 & 18. He gave up a total of 20 goals in 49 games for a 0.39 GA/avg. and making 112 saves. IU made it to the NCAA championship game in 2017, losing to champion Stanford 1-0 in double overtime. In 2018 IU lost to eventual champion Maryland 2-0 in the semi-final. (Can you guess I'm an IU fan?) I know this is college I'm talking about, but he has a winning resume. I'm on board with this one. BTW, Grabavoy is also an IU graduate.
Should also mention that Muse went to High School in Washington, but his hometown is Louisville, Kentucky.
I’m with you on the keepers. You’re telling me out of all the guys out there these are the two we should invest in? Given how unpredictable MLS is I don’t see why we should view this upcoming season as a rebuilding one. Hell, a thrown together expansion club rode the back of a top keeper to the top spot in the west and MLS playoffs.
As for Yimmi, he probably didn’t produce enough but I liked him and he did have a special quality about him. I just hope we can bring someone in that’s a better fit I guess.
Always bothers me how much opacity there is with MLS FO operations (and what players are really paid, what is accounted for in the caps for various mechanisms, how big of a pile of GarberBux exists in the GarberBank, etc.). Makes MLS "hot stove league" essentially non existent except for some very round numbers and many assumptions.
That said, I think we need to give Ned a chance to put his stamp on the organization. He inherited Niezgoda and Yimmi, both under contract from the former guy. Almost certainly the Evander deal was done, just not announced before he took the job 14 months ago as it was announced less than 2 months later - DP deals take 6-12 to make them happen.
He gets to own bringing back Blanco - hopefully he learned from that, don't spend big money on broken former stars in their 30s.
We do need to move on from Yimmi and aim higher with our DP spots. I have no problem with Evander and hope he keeps looking better and better, but he is the minimum quality we should be looking at when we bring in DPs.
"Almost certainly the Evander deal was done, just not announced before he took the job 14 months ago as it was announced less than 2 months later - DP deals take 6-12 to make them happen."
I'd heard they were trying to get Evander but he didn't agree until Gavin was gone and Ned took over, meaning Ned persuaded him when GW couldn't.
I have no idea. It would be a little weird for Evander and his agents to say "we won't sign until GW is gone", but they might have. I suspect it was more general than that since it was quite well known that there was a ton of FO turmoil and GW was suspended pending some final reports and a decision.
This didn't happen, but in a hypothetical world where those reports come out and totally exonerate GW and he keeps his job, would Evander's people have said "no thanks, we just don't like this guy enough to not sign"? Maybe, but that again would be a little weird.
I suspect it was just the FO certainty and not the actual individuals involved that really allowed the deal to go forward, and that the deal had been ready to go. Ned day one said "OK, we are moving forward, are you in?".
I can't imagine that anyone really wanted to sign with the Timbers in 2022 with all of the turmoil going on.
I wasn’t trying to suggest Evander’s people have the Timbers an ultimatum. The impression I got was just that GW wasn’t getting through to them but Ned got it across the line.
I'm 100% behind giving Ned a chance, for sure. And I'm really trying hard not to be a "SPEND MONEY ASSHOLES.......NO NOT LIKE THAT YOU SPENT MONEY WRONG" kind of person. I'm not thrilled with these two GK acquisitions, but I'm also hoping that these are the first two of a bigger series of moves, and I'm also confident Ned has forgotten more about player evaluation than I'll ever know.
As long as there are 267 different types of MLS salary money, I don't think we'll ever get to the transparency most of us would like to see as far as roster construction goes. Which is too bad because we on the outside can't even roughly track how much a team might be able to spend in any given transfer window. I mean, we don't have the absolute right to know that info down to the penny, for sure, but the broad strokes of salary budgets are so widely known in other sports that it's kind of jarring that MLS still isn't at that level.
Okay, so I don't have to feel bad for being baffled about the rules governing financing and staffing the Timbers.
I just hope they can afford, and decide to hire, good players.
And wonder why Miami was able to bring people like Messi and Suarez onboard whereas Evander was a huge expenditure for PTFC at a fraction of their earnings.
"whereas Evander was a huge expenditure for PTFC at a fraction of their earnings."
Because that's not how DP's work. Nor is it how MLS salaries work in general, which is where/why it gets really confusing. MLS sets the budget for each team, and there is a maximum salary available to each type of player (young DP, regular roster, DP, etc).
In addition, there are two types of "Garberbux" as people call them: Targeted Allocation Money and General Allocation Money. TAM was introduced a few years ago in the last CBA, as a way for MLS to bring in more of the mid-to-high-tier talent it was at the time lacking, or to give an existing player a substantial raise without going over the salary cap. Each team is given about $3M in TAM every year. A TAM player can make up to $1.6M a year, but the TAM piece of that is not counted against the salary budget.
This way, teams can pay a (hypothetical example) player, say, $250K that counts against the salary cap and $455K in TAM, and thus be able to pay a player $655K, which results in a team having a DP-level player without actually making him a DP.
GAM is, as the name implies, a general mechanism to do the same buydown of a cap hit, but can be done on any player on the current roster (cannot be used to acquire new players).
Miami has, in the past, circumvented and been punished for breaking MLS salary cap rules, but they knew they were going to go after Messi et al., so they cleared their decks for them - they cut loose Josef Martinez and Gregore was injured all last season, so there's two DP spots from last season, and Suarez occupies an international player spot. Jordi Alba was brought in on a TAM deal, so no DP spot needed.
This is prior to Suarez, of course, but there was a good rundown of how Miami did what they did here:
I don't like what they did player-wise, it's very MLS 2005, but there's no denying they did it above board and their FO deserves credit for pulling it off.
Timbers signing Kamal Miller! Ngl I don’t know much about him in terms of how good he is, but lots of people really like him. MLS experience at the back which is VITAL, I’m so thrilled Ned got someone like that for that spot because we’ve desperately needed leadership and experience there. Only 26 so he and Zac could be a great pairing, and they’re international teammates! Plus Neville was an assistant coach to them for Canada this past year. $625k + an international slot seems like a steal for him too. On paper, to me, this is a really great move! I’m not used to this
For reference, we traded Tuiloma for $800k + $100k in incentives. An international roster slot is priced around $150-175k right now. Miller should be a pretty big upgrade over Tuiloma. His salary last year was $420k guaranteed. Good business!
...I think. Again, don’t know much about him besides a lot of people seem to like him. Maybe Araujo ends up being the starter over him, idk. Also it’s concerning that we have three international center backs. When the international break comes, we are screwed if McGraw is called up.
I like this. He's good and he's consistent. One of those guys who isn't super flashy, won't make a lot of highlight-reel defensive plays, but always is where he needs to be and is good at getting the job done. He's also good at playing the ball out of the back and helping the buildup; I have no idea how Neville wants to play here, but obviously he liked Miller enough to pay to bring him here, so.
Also young, as you point out, which is great news. Ned did pretty good here, for sure.
Apparently he started nearly all games once he arrived in Miami. Sounds like a solid center back, which we desperately need. Anyone know what Miami fans think of him?
So what I’ve gathered from Miami and Canadian fans is that he’s generally pretty good but is prone to bad mistakes and getting burned. Not very fast and can get caught for speed on counters. Can have some amazing games and moments from time to time. Pretty average on the ball. Likes to get forward but can’t do much up there. Will hustle and give 100% and be a great locker room presence. Strong. He’s probably not going to blow us away consistently but will be a good, solid, MLS center back.
For the price that seems like a great deal, should be a sizable upgrade over Tuiloma for a similar price. Plus should have chemistry with McGraw and Neville. Domestic center backs with MLS experience are always worth it in my opinion, they generally come with less risk than international center backs. A few concerns I have is that it seems like Miller and McGraw would be a pretty slow pairing and could get burned by quick forwards (looking at you, Denis Bouanga...), and if Miller is mistake prone that might not be a great pairing with Bravo on the left side of defense, who is also prone to over committing and getting burned. Other than that I’m pretty happy with this signing
sounds like younger mabiala?
It certainly does! And I’ll take that, Mabiala was great when he was younger
Our defense just got worse
How so? Downgrade over Zuparic you think? Could be right on an individual level and maybe as a whole, but chemistry and familiarity with the league is a big deal. Plus, Zuparic is 31. Miller is 26, with a salary (if it stays the same) less than half of Dario’s
There is some control over international breaks though. GW always said "f-it, we are playing" in an attempt to manage schedule congestion elsewhere. Many MLS teams don't play through every international break though. Not saying we have complete control and I strongly suspect there will be times when what now appears to be our starting center backs are both gone for Canada ... but this pain can be managed to some degree.
Other than that, I like this signing too. I am still confused about Mabiala (per above discussion), but we will find out soon enough whether he is back as a reserve for 2024 or actually out of contract. I think the later, but perhaps there was an option or extension that was never announced along the way. His last announced contract was "multi-year" in 3 years ago and the Timbers would have been crazy to sign him until age 37 already showing signs of being unable to keep up at 33.
Zuparic under contract until end of 2025, but stated he wants to be moved. Have seen no smoke nor fire with the movement piece there, but Miller's signing suggests that is now possible.
Araujo - who knows. From what I saw he looks like the #3 option at best. Maybe he will prove us wrong and be way better in 2024, but no breath holding.
Still going to need more depth at CB if Zup and/or Mabs leave, so lets not get too carried away on expectations when we sign a couple of value propositions / projects to be #4 and 5 on the CB depth chart.
Mabiala is most definitely still under contract... https://www.timbers.com/news/timbers-announce-roster-status-ahead-of-2024-mls-season
Potential new winger. Gabriel Pec from Vasca de Gama. reported on total timbers insta
Looks good. Good pace. Good technique. His numbers on the production end are not that great but he is 22 and the production side of his game can come. All of his other abilities are there. If I were to rate him I would give him a 7. He is a lefty but can use both feet. Really good at set pieces and crosses. Soccer IQ might be the biggest issue putting the production to paper, because he has all the attributes to be a good player. Not buonga level but he is still young.
I wish there was more transparency about contracts. I truly thought Mabiala was out of contract at the end of this year and that next year would be a club option for Yimmi, so I'm disappointed we're still saddled with them.
I generally use this site for contract info:
https://www.capology.com/club/portland-timbers/salaries/2023/
Not sure it's always 100% accurate, but it's usually pretty reliable. And it does look like Yimmi's out of contract at the end of the week (MLS contracts run through 12/31 of their expiration year). Which, if true, means either the Timbers are working to extend him or they're just letting the deal expire with no comment/action on their part. OLive (I think - I can't find the link/mention now) mentioned the other day that a club in Colombia's interested in signing him, so I still don't expect him to be back with the Timbers next season.
3 out of top4 gone or on way out with a couple spots likely freeing come 12/31. Hopefully timbers ready to pull trigger during euro transfer window so can start new season near full strength and aren't having to claw our way back
I hope so too but I suspect we’ll still be behind. It’s unfortunate that the calendars don’t align so we often have to wait until the summer window to have the best prospects. I don’t see how Neville would be much of a draw as a coach but maybe other people are more impressed by what his playing career might suggest about his potential than I am.
Oh, according to this, Hunter Sulte is out of contract too? That would make signing 3 goalkeepers make more sense. I figured 3 for the first team and one for T2 is pretty standard. If he would still qualify for Homegrown status it might make sense to bring him back, if he wants. I wasn't impressed by what little I saw of him but I saw next to nothing of him under the worst circumstances so I don't think that counts for much. I'd be okay with giving him more time if the powers that be think he's got potential.
Also, Mabiala, which I suspected. Some are speaking of him as if he's still here for another year. It is confusing.
Sulte is still under contract. https://www.timbers.com/news/timbers-announce-roster-status-ahead-of-2024-mls-season
"...according to this, Hunter Sulte is out of contract too?"
https://www.capology.com/club/portland-timbers/salaries/2023/
The language on timbers.com is "current roster status ahead of the 2024 season" (as of Nov 30). It looks like many contracts run through 12/31/2023, so not through the 2024 season. According to Capology, Sulte's is one of them. Transfermarkt doesn't have the expiration but agrees on the signing date. The signing was announced in November 2020 but apparently didn't go into effect until January 1, 2021, which seems normal.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/hunter-sulte/profil/spieler/617576
So, Sulte was signed in 2021. Contracts seem to typically be for 2 or 3 years, with a 1 or 2 year option. I would usually think it would be safe to assume Sulte is on a 3-year with a 1-year, meaning 2024 would be an option. But the club said nothing about an option one way or the other, and they haven't thanked him for his service, so he's probably still around? But I don't think it is exactly crystal clear. Chara, Blanco, Niezgoda, Williamson, Boli, Mabiala, Asprilla, Miller, Bingham, Rasmussen, Gutierrez, and Caliskan are/were in the same camp according to Capology. We know Blanco, Niezgoda, Miller, Bingham, Rasmussen, Gutierrez, and Caliskan had their options declined, though we were still in discussions with Miller and Bingham (and Blanco to a point) to bring them back. Acosta wasn't on capology's 12/31/2023 list for some reason but we are/were still trying to bring him back too. We picked up Boli's option but he declined. Asprilla is a free agent now but I don't know if anyone has said anything about his status. It seems we must have picked up Chara's option so we could get some value from him in sale/trade but that was never announced, as far as I know. I expect the same is true of Williamson but there's been silence on that front as well. Mabiala and Sulte remain the biggest uncertainties IMHO. I think we can infer a lot but the information out there points to 12/31 expirations and/or quietly picking up option years. I don't have an opinion on Sulte really but would prefer Mabiala not return, at least not for what we were paying him. I don't know why the FO would be so coy about it. It's also possible that capology and transfermarkt don't have accurate info?
The announcement of roster status says who is under contract for next year. That's the whole point of the announcement and of teams having to give this list to the league before the trade window opens. Capology is wrong.
That makes sense but it's poorly communicated. Makes me wonder where Capology and Transfermarkt get their info. Bottom line, I wish there was more transparency and clarity in MLS (and NWSL).
There’s definitely a few discrepancies on that site, since we now know from the Timbers’ end-of-year roster status update that Yimmi and Mabiala are (unfortunately) under contract for next year, as well as Williamson and Asprilla, all of whom are listed there as their contracts expiring in five days. The salaries are also all out of wack and don’t line up with the MLSPA salary lists at all. I’m very curious to know how they’re getting their salary numbers since they seem extremely inflated.
Either way, more and more reports from Columbia are saying Yimmi is on his way back already and the deal is basically done, so I definitely expect that to be announced pretty soon. As for Mabiala... I thought for sure he was out of contract as well, but oh well. He’s a leader in the locker room, and his contract isn’t terribly massive I guess (it’s massive relative to his role in the team), so having him around might not be the worst thing in the world in a team that is in dire need of leadership, especially with all the turnover that is (hopefully) coming
Whoops, totally looked at the wrong column on the salary part, ignore what I said there. I was looking at the gross remaining, not the per year category. Wish I could edit on mobile. My bad lol
Thanks. I was unfamiliar with that site. I’ve been wondering about how to interpret the contracts ending 12/31. Like, saying they’re still under contract is technically accurate but it seems like whether they’re under contract next season is the pertinent question.
I know there have been times we’ve picked up a player’s option with the intention of selling or trading them so we retain their rights and can get some $ for them. Seems a gamble but if they’ve got a deal worked out…
I think if the end date is 12/31/23, it's safe to assume there's no contract currently in place for 2024. I have no idea whether YC's contract contains an option, but I'm interpreting the silence here as "evidence" that it might. If he was truly done here, they would have said something by now, and with only a few days left in the year that may mean they're trying to find a way to return some value for him.
If the rumors I saw about him returning to Colombia are true, it may be that they exercise an option on him, then trade him. If he's truly out of contract, that wouldn't be an issue and he'd just walk.
TL;DR: nobody knows anything and I'm just guessing here...hahaha.
I think you’re right. I figured we’d just have to decline his option and let him go but it’s better if we can get some $ for him. I wouldn’t want to be stuck with him another year at DP level, so it’s a risk. I think they’d want to keep Diego happy by not screwing Yimmi too.
This may be some sort of Timber sacrilege, but I could not care less if ditching YC makes Diego unhappy. The Timbers should be making roster decisions based on talent alone. Diego knows it's a business, and if the Timbers decide to move on from YC, that should not in any way impact Diego's commitment to this team. If it does, that says more about Diego than I think anyone would want to hear.
I get this and basically agree, but I think we’ve underpaid Diego long enough that I view some concessions as part of his compensation.
So two gk that aren't starting quality. I seriously have a feeling Merritt is gonna take this team to moneyball town from here on out. Cheap players and old free agent players. I have no faith that Merritt will make this team an mls contender.
This isn't even "moneyball". This is "let's build a team on the cheap". Moneyball, as a term, implies there's some undervalued-by-other-teams skillset or value for money being spent, and this isn't that as much as it is 'we need warm bodies'.
They’re two backups. Really can’t make any bigger conclusions like that from those moves. Ones a young guy who did well in a lower league, and ones an old veteran. That’s probably the ideal backup situation to have at keeper. I’m actually really happy we got a USL kid, maybe he turns out to be great and I’m sure he’s cheap. I hope he’s the number 2, I remember seeing some really awful howlers from Pantemis a few years back. Tom Bogert said we aren’t done at keeper, so I expect us to sign a starter, and I really hope it’s a good one. We need a rock back there to anchor our back line.
This does suggest that Bingham is out though, which I’m not happy about, I felt he did very well when he was in a backup role. He made lots of great saves and saved our ass on several occasions, the problems only came when he was a starter for more than 3 games. Perhaps getting a young keeper suggests Sulte is also out? Seems like he lost his spot to Bilichuk at T2. Who knows
Billy Beane actually wanted to win games though.
Billy Beane actually *did* win games! At this point, I don't have a lot of confidence in the Timbers doing that.
He played moneyball the right way I guess
Yimmi out is necessary and good - love him but it's time. Need full DP/YDP flexibility
Does Paulson make the full commitment to make this team a legitimate contender?
From what I can tell he isn't moving like that's his intention.
He hasn't up to this point, in the last few seasons, and I have no reason to think he will now.
Thoughts?
DONE DEAL: Yimmi Charà ▶️ JuniorClubSA✅
🔍 The former Portland Timbers winger has just signed a 2-years contract with the Colombian side Atletico Junior.
best of luck to Yimmi, was fun why it lasted
This is the best news I could imagine going into 2024. I wish him as a person no ill, but he belonged nowhere near the 2024 Timbers and I'm glad he's not a part of the plans going forward.
Any thoughts?
"Flamengo is interested in signing Portland Timbers midfielder Evander"
I'm interested in winning the Powerball jackpot; that doesn't mean it'll ever happen. There's no way the Timbers sell Evander after only one season.
Yeah, something about this says Evander wants out. "Flamengo are in talks with his representatives" that alone is highly unprofessional. The first thing flamengo should be doing is talking to Portland to see if there is any chance they sell. Not go to the player first. That tells me that they are trying to force a sell. And the fact its a Brazilian team, tells me that he probably somehow instigated it. Either way the whole thing is suspicious.
I bet it has to do with difference in culture.
I saw a report that Flamengo *did* actually make an offer for Evander, but it was a laughable $5.5 million. No idea on the veracity of the report, though...
His "representative" is literally his dad who is his agent.
And again, the word "interested" is doing a looooooooot of heavy lifting here.
JOURNALIST, BORED AT HIS DESK WITH NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT:
/picks up phone
/calls contact at club
/says "hey would you be interested in signing this guy?"
CLUB CONTACT:
/picks up phone
/hears question
/says "yes, he's a good player and anyone would be interested in him, although we are not currently pursuing him nor have we talked to anyone about him, as he's under contract with another club"
JOURNALIST:
"Flamenco Expresses Interest in Evander!"
now I'm a journalist too!
Don’t see it happening. I can see Evander perhaps not being happy here and wanting to go to Brazil, but we have him locked down for several years and it would be basically punting the season if we sold our best player a month before preseason starts. That only adds another (MASSIVE) item on the shopping list for this offseason, and considering how slow we’ve moved thus far on signing players, I don’t see us being able to replace him. We have the cards and I just don’t see us agreeing, unless they somehow give us $15+ million
given his central role in this team 15 million + minimum and a sell on fee considering in 3 years he will be in his prime. Even then he is so gifted would hate to do this.
I do think it is a decision point for the Timbers though. Is Evander really the guy that the new boss wants? If not, there is no reason to prolong the sham (other than possibly increasing the selling price - but the risk is he gets injured and the other edge of that sword swings).
It really depends on factors we as fans are not privy to. Do we have the budget and ability to move a different direction and is there someone out there interested? If the answers are no, no and no - welp, why move him? If the answers are yes, yes, and yes and he wants to go, the offer is good, well - you have to at least consider doing it.
Have you all read reports of ❗️Flamengo is interested in signing Portland Timbers midfielder Evander 👀🇧🇷
🗣️ The Brazilian club opened conversations with the player's agent.
📊 Evander played 29 games, scoring 11 goals and providing 4 assists.
(h/t: @venecasagrande)
Really it's been *one* report regurgitated over and over. I don't see this happening unless Flamengo shows up with a shipping container of cash.
Agreed on Yimmi, but I haven’t experienced such lack of confidence in this front office/ownership since the Spencer era. Bingham isn’t even average for MLS, so why they even are stringing him along at this point makes no sense if they are really serious about improving the GK position. These first two hires aren’t exactly ready for prime time, so an imminent high end keeper better be on the near horizon.
So I'm gonna throw this out there, the Timbers need to sign Matthew Corcoran from Birmingham Legion in USL. I've watched him play the last two seasons and he's legit. Just got a call up to the US under 23 team. He's the kind of player we need to target for our future. I'd love to see him develop with Williamson and Evander.
Bet Dallas has his MLS rights. Maybe he could fill Caliskan's vacancy? If he stays at Birmingham he'd actually get to play though. Also looks like he'd be more competition for Ayala than a Caliskan replacement. Regardless of any talent he's got, it's hard to figure out where he fits with respect to roster and cap space until Diego Chara retires. Wait, if we don't re-sign Bryan Acosta, we'd have an opening there.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QhSmHo_iNU4&si=2DpBTK0ZWPNip9Br
Must get Yimmi off the books. Critically important.
I know nothing about either of those two keepers, but "Muse, a 24-year-old former Sounders homegrown player from Tukwila, Washington (yep, he’s crossing enemy lines!) has spent the last three seasons bouncing around the USL Championship" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Pantemis having 40 MLS starts is good, I guess, but considering those 40 starts are spread out over six years, and considering Montreal ultimately let him go without much fuss...again I'm not sure this is The Guy. But I was very wrong about Steve Clark when he came here, I thought he'd be a disaster, so I'm willing to be proven wrong by either of these two.
As for Yimmi, well...see ya.
I wish this FO would take the GK position seriously. They let Clark go over some money, signed Bingham, who dropped out of MLS and couldn't sign a deal for a couple years just because he was around in training. Now they want to sign a young guy who plays a bit in USL and a guy who seems not unlike Bingham, if he was great he'd be signed but he's not so PTFC will get a good deal on him. He played 2 games last season
gamesDon't know anything about Pantemis, but Muse played at Indiana University in 17 & 18. He gave up a total of 20 goals in 49 games for a 0.39 GA/avg. and making 112 saves. IU made it to the NCAA championship game in 2017, losing to champion Stanford 1-0 in double overtime. In 2018 IU lost to eventual champion Maryland 2-0 in the semi-final. (Can you guess I'm an IU fan?) I know this is college I'm talking about, but he has a winning resume. I'm on board with this one. BTW, Grabavoy is also an IU graduate.
Should also mention that Muse went to High School in Washington, but his hometown is Louisville, Kentucky.
I’m with you on the keepers. You’re telling me out of all the guys out there these are the two we should invest in? Given how unpredictable MLS is I don’t see why we should view this upcoming season as a rebuilding one. Hell, a thrown together expansion club rode the back of a top keeper to the top spot in the west and MLS playoffs.
As for Yimmi, he probably didn’t produce enough but I liked him and he did have a special quality about him. I just hope we can bring someone in that’s a better fit I guess.
Reminds me of the "search" for a new coach. Is this really the best they could come up with? GK is a sorta important position, from what I can tell.
Always bothers me how much opacity there is with MLS FO operations (and what players are really paid, what is accounted for in the caps for various mechanisms, how big of a pile of GarberBux exists in the GarberBank, etc.). Makes MLS "hot stove league" essentially non existent except for some very round numbers and many assumptions.
That said, I think we need to give Ned a chance to put his stamp on the organization. He inherited Niezgoda and Yimmi, both under contract from the former guy. Almost certainly the Evander deal was done, just not announced before he took the job 14 months ago as it was announced less than 2 months later - DP deals take 6-12 to make them happen.
He gets to own bringing back Blanco - hopefully he learned from that, don't spend big money on broken former stars in their 30s.
We do need to move on from Yimmi and aim higher with our DP spots. I have no problem with Evander and hope he keeps looking better and better, but he is the minimum quality we should be looking at when we bring in DPs.
"Almost certainly the Evander deal was done, just not announced before he took the job 14 months ago as it was announced less than 2 months later - DP deals take 6-12 to make them happen."
I'd heard they were trying to get Evander but he didn't agree until Gavin was gone and Ned took over, meaning Ned persuaded him when GW couldn't.
I have no idea. It would be a little weird for Evander and his agents to say "we won't sign until GW is gone", but they might have. I suspect it was more general than that since it was quite well known that there was a ton of FO turmoil and GW was suspended pending some final reports and a decision.
This didn't happen, but in a hypothetical world where those reports come out and totally exonerate GW and he keeps his job, would Evander's people have said "no thanks, we just don't like this guy enough to not sign"? Maybe, but that again would be a little weird.
I suspect it was just the FO certainty and not the actual individuals involved that really allowed the deal to go forward, and that the deal had been ready to go. Ned day one said "OK, we are moving forward, are you in?".
I can't imagine that anyone really wanted to sign with the Timbers in 2022 with all of the turmoil going on.
I wasn’t trying to suggest Evander’s people have the Timbers an ultimatum. The impression I got was just that GW wasn’t getting through to them but Ned got it across the line.
I'm 100% behind giving Ned a chance, for sure. And I'm really trying hard not to be a "SPEND MONEY ASSHOLES.......NO NOT LIKE THAT YOU SPENT MONEY WRONG" kind of person. I'm not thrilled with these two GK acquisitions, but I'm also hoping that these are the first two of a bigger series of moves, and I'm also confident Ned has forgotten more about player evaluation than I'll ever know.
As long as there are 267 different types of MLS salary money, I don't think we'll ever get to the transparency most of us would like to see as far as roster construction goes. Which is too bad because we on the outside can't even roughly track how much a team might be able to spend in any given transfer window. I mean, we don't have the absolute right to know that info down to the penny, for sure, but the broad strokes of salary budgets are so widely known in other sports that it's kind of jarring that MLS still isn't at that level.
Okay, so I don't have to feel bad for being baffled about the rules governing financing and staffing the Timbers.
I just hope they can afford, and decide to hire, good players.
And wonder why Miami was able to bring people like Messi and Suarez onboard whereas Evander was a huge expenditure for PTFC at a fraction of their earnings.
"whereas Evander was a huge expenditure for PTFC at a fraction of their earnings."
Because that's not how DP's work. Nor is it how MLS salaries work in general, which is where/why it gets really confusing. MLS sets the budget for each team, and there is a maximum salary available to each type of player (young DP, regular roster, DP, etc).
In addition, there are two types of "Garberbux" as people call them: Targeted Allocation Money and General Allocation Money. TAM was introduced a few years ago in the last CBA, as a way for MLS to bring in more of the mid-to-high-tier talent it was at the time lacking, or to give an existing player a substantial raise without going over the salary cap. Each team is given about $3M in TAM every year. A TAM player can make up to $1.6M a year, but the TAM piece of that is not counted against the salary budget.
This way, teams can pay a (hypothetical example) player, say, $250K that counts against the salary cap and $455K in TAM, and thus be able to pay a player $655K, which results in a team having a DP-level player without actually making him a DP.
GAM is, as the name implies, a general mechanism to do the same buydown of a cap hit, but can be done on any player on the current roster (cannot be used to acquire new players).
Miami has, in the past, circumvented and been punished for breaking MLS salary cap rules, but they knew they were going to go after Messi et al., so they cleared their decks for them - they cut loose Josef Martinez and Gregore was injured all last season, so there's two DP spots from last season, and Suarez occupies an international player spot. Jordi Alba was brought in on a TAM deal, so no DP spot needed.
This is prior to Suarez, of course, but there was a good rundown of how Miami did what they did here:
https://theathletic.com/4775474/2023/08/14/inter-miami-roster-analysis-messi/
I don't like what they did player-wise, it's very MLS 2005, but there's no denying they did it above board and their FO deserves credit for pulling it off.
Thanks for breaking it down !