I believe he was traded for some GAM in the offseason. It might have been one of those "handshake deals" to prevent Austin from picking anyone else from the roster - which happens a lot!
Ah, that does sound familiar now that you mention it. Hmm, Zac spent his earlier years in SoCal. Might be a win-win if we do the same with him and SDFC.
Speaking of Zac... How much to you think he rides the bench because he's not one to play a high line in back versus his skills/talent level has plateaued? Odd he went from being part of our starting XI to only riding the bench.
The problem with "sell now" is twofold: One, it would essentially be a panic sale, on the back of an unfortunate situation that Ned did not handle well. Every potential suitor knows that, which would mean the Timbers would not be able to get as much for Evander as they could if they wait until things calm down, over the summer or next winter. And two, it means Evander doesn't play here any more, which would, to use a highly technical sports term, suck.
The first one is arguably the more serious, as far as the business of soccer goes. I want Evander to stay here as long as he wants to, but if Ned feels like a bridge has been burnt, then sure, maybe he should be looking to sell Evander. But if he does so now, he is a dingdong essentially throwing a fit because a player hurt his feelings, and won't get as much for Evander as he could if he lets Evander's career here play out a bit more.
Let things calm down, let Evander do Evander things until the summer, and if Ned still is incapable of being the adult in this situation, as he's shown so far, then maybe consider a sale - but only if it's a top-five all time MLS sale price. That's the level Evander's at right now, everyone knows it, and anything less from Ned in a transaction would or should be a fireable offense for any competent front office.
I wouldn't necessarily say Ned has handled it poorly. Firing off those tweets in the hours after that loss when the body was still warm and emotions were still high was poor judgment on Evander's part imo. As much as I would love Ned to just pay the man so Evander can still ball out in PDX, that's unfortunately not his whole job. He can't put just one player above the needs of building a roster - even someone as good as Evander.
And I would also say Ned still has faith in Evander. He's maintained that he wants Evander to stay. Don't think it's a matter of character or anything.
While that may have been poor judgment on Evander's part, it was done in the heat of the moment, as you say, when emotions were still high. Ned said what he said about Evander's actions in a press conference two days later, after everything had cooled down, when what he should have said in public was...nothing.
The whole thing should have been handled in-house, privately, with at most a public statement saying "Evander said things in the heat of the moment, we handle these matters internally, and we're moving on" and nothing more.
Instead, Ned decided to double down on the stupidity, Phil decided to, for some dumb reason, pull out some bizarre flavor of "disappointed parent" card, and now there's bad vibes all around that could have easily been avoided, had Ned done his job properly.
"As much as I would love Ned to just pay the man so Evander can still ball out in PDX,"
As I understand it, that's part of the issue - Evander's pay isn't seemingly what it was advertised to him as being. I'm not sure whether that's because of a tax burden he wasn't aware of or what, but it sounds like the Timbers weren't 100% transparent about the "gross v. net" part of his salary, and if that's the case, that seems to be also a problem that Ned created.
I'm not saying the Timbers lied or misrepresented intentionally - it just sounds like there may have been some "he'll figure it out"-type assumptions made about Evander's take home pay that didn't end up happening (maybe Evander doesn't get into Workday to look at his paystubs very often? hahaha), and that's causing some bad feelings as well. That's fully on Ned and the Timbers, and the bad vibes there have been festering for a while, from the sounds of it. Post-Vancouver was just the last straw, and I get why Evander said what he said at the time.
It's up to Ned to defuse that situation, and instead, he chose to accelerate it in his press conference.
I get that people want to side with Evander in this situation, and I think it’s largely down to how the front office has handled things in the past. But Ned had to respond to what Evander said publicly, it was detrimental to the franchise. It was said in the heat of the moment, but that doesn’t mean he gets a free pass for it. Evander undoubtedly made the situation worse for everyone involved. It has made negotiating an extension harder if that’s what he truly wants, and if he wants to move (which it seems like he does based on him literally saying he wants to move to Brazil or Europe) it has put the Timbers in a terrible negotiating position with other clubs who now know he’s disgruntled. It’s a nuanced situation, and if Evander didn’t know how US taxes would impact his take home that’s on him and his representation as much as it is on the Timbers. “It’s up to Ned to diffuse the situation” is a bit short sided, it takes two to tango. Like I said in the pod - If Evander has made up his mind about wanting a move to a bigger club/league, then there’s nothing Ned can do to change his mind. Even if he negotiated a new contract, Evander isn’t going to retire a Timber, so long-term can you invest in a player that you know wants a move? Or do you move him now when his value is the highest it will ever be and reinvest that money into players who might want to be here long-term?
Nothing about this situation is about long-term investment, though. This is about maximizing investment while he's here, and getting the most out of an Evander sale. Nobody thought Evander was here for multiple contracts (probably not even Ned); this situation is all about what happens over the course of this one, and the value the Timbers can extract from him when it's time for him to exit.
"Ned had to respond to what Evander said publicly, it was detrimental to the franchise."
Yes, he did. And the best way for a grownup GM to respond, as I said, was to say "After the play-in game and Evander's comments, we spoke to Evander. What we said will remain private, and we consider the matter closed". Continuing the feud does nobody any good.
Should Evander have said what he said? Probably not, but he is a young athlete, who was running hot after a very emotional loss. Ned's ENTIRE JOB in that situation is to defuse situations like this, not perpetuate them.
"Or do you move him now when his value is the highest it will ever be"
That's my point, though. By Ned taking shots at Evander, he's making it clear to other teams that, if he's sold right now, he'll accept a lesser value for Evander than had this feud not spilled out into the public sphere. That's 100% on Ned, and is Bad GM'ing 101.
I agree that missteps were probably made by Ned & co. Part of his job is keeping players happy, and it's clear that he hasn't done that well with Evander. But at this point, it is what it is. It's hard for us to speculate with what has and hasn't happened, especially when both sides have a vested financial interest to maintain their own stance and perspective. Ned's job wasn't necessarily to defuse the situation. He had to represent the rest of the locker room and his coaching staff. Make no mistake, if Evander is transferred it would be a huge bummer all around, and we can have a discussion over whether it should be viewed as a "failure" overall or not by the club. But my point is I can see the logic of selling, *if* that relationship is indeed beyond repair.
I’m not a fan of Evander or Grabavoy (as a GM, at least), so if I’m lucky this issue sends them both on their way eventually.
Evander may be very talented, but his attitude in general has sucked since he arrived and it has negatively affected this team for two seasons. He appears to have low leadership skills and is far too focused on himself to be an effective leader. I’d rather replace him with talent that gives off the impression that they care about the club as much as they care about themselves.
For all the talent, I don’t see him making the Timbers a better TEAM. He drives too much focus on individualism for this team to succeed with him.
He is no Diego Valeri. Sell him now.
And on the Ned side, I’d just prefer someone who has had far more experience in that realm. Ned felt like an immediate-need hire when the Timbers should have done a proper search for the position.
"He appears to have low leadership skills and is far too focused on himself to be an effective leader."
Evander finished 2024 tied for the league lead - the LEAGUE LEAD, not just the team, not just the Western Conference - in assists with 19. Evander finished 2024 with 0.55 assists per 90 minutes. And that's not even getting into the actual goals he scored, the raw number of which, by the way (15), is fewer than his number of assists.
I'm pretty sure there are some criticisms one could make of Evander should one try hard enough, but "far too focused on himself" - well, that sure is a take.
Water under the bridge at this point. In addition to improving our roster, Ned needs to make the best of the situation with Evander whether he's sold or stays, but most of all, Ned needs learn from this experience. Perhaps Ned could have addressed the concerns before they got to the breaking point for Evander. I'm sure Ned was aware of how Evander was feeling. Taking that a step further, it was obvious the locker room was having Front Office issues with Dario, Santi, and whomever else had expressed concerns from previous seasons. Phil is far from perfect, but it does seem like he turned the mood in the locker room around a bit - or at least did a better job than Gio did.
Obviously, Ned needed to do damage control after Evander's Tweets, but I agree with RCTEyeDee, Ned and Phil should have just acknowledged Evander's concerns and let the rest of the Timbers fandom know its an internal issue that will be handled as such.
And at this point in time, Ned has arguably more to lose over this situation than anybody else.
PTFC's reputation as an organization already sucked; Phil's suffered a bit of collateral damage at most; and Evander hasn't lost one bit of value because he's operated just like everybody who watches pro sports expects from a player in a stuck negotiation.
A year ago, Ned was a "MLS GM to Watch". Since then his team 'rebuild' was a defensive disaster, backed into the playoff and cratered, and he's allowed himself to look petty and vindictive by fighting publicly with his team's most valuable asset.
I would think that the longer you wait, the less leverage you have as a club to sell. I don't want to see him go either, but maybe they could add two or three good players for one sale.
Evander wanting to elevate his profile with an international call up is awesome, and it's something the Timbers can't really do anything about as far as making him want to stay here. The only thing that could change his mind is offering him more money than he could dream of and change his mind. They should try that, but the alternative is that I think the Timbers should embrace the idea of Evander wanting to move on and get on the same page with him. It's a win-win with a big sale and the prestige of a player like him playing on a bigger stage as a former Timber. They have to work together on this and agree on what they both want to facilitate making it happen. Ultimately, it's a business, and the egos and the feelings need to take a back seat. An earlier sale will potentially give the Timbers some time to build the roster with the huge hole he will leave.
I think, and I'd have to go back and look, he was clear from day one that the Timbers were a step on a ladder for him. He was gonna use the Timbers to get to the next level in his career, and I'm pretty sure the Timbers embraced that idea - as you say, it's a win-win because the Timbers would get the absolute best out of him, and at the end of his time here, they'd get the absolute best value out of him when he moves on.
As much as many people hate to hear it, not every player "plays for the badge", as antiquatedly romantic as that phrase is. Some play for themselves, and their career advancement, and that's absolutely fine, because that also benefits "the badge". That's what we're seeing with Evander, and it's brought a fantastic benefit to this team and this city.
"Ultimately, it's a business, and the egos and the feelings need to take a back seat."
Thank you Sam & Alex! I needed my Timbers fix! I sure hope Ned make some positive signings this off-season...
Hey, was Julio Cascante picked by FC Austin during their expansion draft?
I believe he was traded for some GAM in the offseason. It might have been one of those "handshake deals" to prevent Austin from picking anyone else from the roster - which happens a lot!
Ah, that does sound familiar now that you mention it. Hmm, Zac spent his earlier years in SoCal. Might be a win-win if we do the same with him and SDFC.
Speaking of Zac... How much to you think he rides the bench because he's not one to play a high line in back versus his skills/talent level has plateaued? Odd he went from being part of our starting XI to only riding the bench.
The problem with "sell now" is twofold: One, it would essentially be a panic sale, on the back of an unfortunate situation that Ned did not handle well. Every potential suitor knows that, which would mean the Timbers would not be able to get as much for Evander as they could if they wait until things calm down, over the summer or next winter. And two, it means Evander doesn't play here any more, which would, to use a highly technical sports term, suck.
The first one is arguably the more serious, as far as the business of soccer goes. I want Evander to stay here as long as he wants to, but if Ned feels like a bridge has been burnt, then sure, maybe he should be looking to sell Evander. But if he does so now, he is a dingdong essentially throwing a fit because a player hurt his feelings, and won't get as much for Evander as he could if he lets Evander's career here play out a bit more.
Let things calm down, let Evander do Evander things until the summer, and if Ned still is incapable of being the adult in this situation, as he's shown so far, then maybe consider a sale - but only if it's a top-five all time MLS sale price. That's the level Evander's at right now, everyone knows it, and anything less from Ned in a transaction would or should be a fireable offense for any competent front office.
I wouldn't necessarily say Ned has handled it poorly. Firing off those tweets in the hours after that loss when the body was still warm and emotions were still high was poor judgment on Evander's part imo. As much as I would love Ned to just pay the man so Evander can still ball out in PDX, that's unfortunately not his whole job. He can't put just one player above the needs of building a roster - even someone as good as Evander.
And I would also say Ned still has faith in Evander. He's maintained that he wants Evander to stay. Don't think it's a matter of character or anything.
While that may have been poor judgment on Evander's part, it was done in the heat of the moment, as you say, when emotions were still high. Ned said what he said about Evander's actions in a press conference two days later, after everything had cooled down, when what he should have said in public was...nothing.
The whole thing should have been handled in-house, privately, with at most a public statement saying "Evander said things in the heat of the moment, we handle these matters internally, and we're moving on" and nothing more.
Instead, Ned decided to double down on the stupidity, Phil decided to, for some dumb reason, pull out some bizarre flavor of "disappointed parent" card, and now there's bad vibes all around that could have easily been avoided, had Ned done his job properly.
"As much as I would love Ned to just pay the man so Evander can still ball out in PDX,"
As I understand it, that's part of the issue - Evander's pay isn't seemingly what it was advertised to him as being. I'm not sure whether that's because of a tax burden he wasn't aware of or what, but it sounds like the Timbers weren't 100% transparent about the "gross v. net" part of his salary, and if that's the case, that seems to be also a problem that Ned created.
I'm not saying the Timbers lied or misrepresented intentionally - it just sounds like there may have been some "he'll figure it out"-type assumptions made about Evander's take home pay that didn't end up happening (maybe Evander doesn't get into Workday to look at his paystubs very often? hahaha), and that's causing some bad feelings as well. That's fully on Ned and the Timbers, and the bad vibes there have been festering for a while, from the sounds of it. Post-Vancouver was just the last straw, and I get why Evander said what he said at the time.
It's up to Ned to defuse that situation, and instead, he chose to accelerate it in his press conference.
I get that people want to side with Evander in this situation, and I think it’s largely down to how the front office has handled things in the past. But Ned had to respond to what Evander said publicly, it was detrimental to the franchise. It was said in the heat of the moment, but that doesn’t mean he gets a free pass for it. Evander undoubtedly made the situation worse for everyone involved. It has made negotiating an extension harder if that’s what he truly wants, and if he wants to move (which it seems like he does based on him literally saying he wants to move to Brazil or Europe) it has put the Timbers in a terrible negotiating position with other clubs who now know he’s disgruntled. It’s a nuanced situation, and if Evander didn’t know how US taxes would impact his take home that’s on him and his representation as much as it is on the Timbers. “It’s up to Ned to diffuse the situation” is a bit short sided, it takes two to tango. Like I said in the pod - If Evander has made up his mind about wanting a move to a bigger club/league, then there’s nothing Ned can do to change his mind. Even if he negotiated a new contract, Evander isn’t going to retire a Timber, so long-term can you invest in a player that you know wants a move? Or do you move him now when his value is the highest it will ever be and reinvest that money into players who might want to be here long-term?
Nothing about this situation is about long-term investment, though. This is about maximizing investment while he's here, and getting the most out of an Evander sale. Nobody thought Evander was here for multiple contracts (probably not even Ned); this situation is all about what happens over the course of this one, and the value the Timbers can extract from him when it's time for him to exit.
"Ned had to respond to what Evander said publicly, it was detrimental to the franchise."
Yes, he did. And the best way for a grownup GM to respond, as I said, was to say "After the play-in game and Evander's comments, we spoke to Evander. What we said will remain private, and we consider the matter closed". Continuing the feud does nobody any good.
Should Evander have said what he said? Probably not, but he is a young athlete, who was running hot after a very emotional loss. Ned's ENTIRE JOB in that situation is to defuse situations like this, not perpetuate them.
"Or do you move him now when his value is the highest it will ever be"
That's my point, though. By Ned taking shots at Evander, he's making it clear to other teams that, if he's sold right now, he'll accept a lesser value for Evander than had this feud not spilled out into the public sphere. That's 100% on Ned, and is Bad GM'ing 101.
I agree that missteps were probably made by Ned & co. Part of his job is keeping players happy, and it's clear that he hasn't done that well with Evander. But at this point, it is what it is. It's hard for us to speculate with what has and hasn't happened, especially when both sides have a vested financial interest to maintain their own stance and perspective. Ned's job wasn't necessarily to defuse the situation. He had to represent the rest of the locker room and his coaching staff. Make no mistake, if Evander is transferred it would be a huge bummer all around, and we can have a discussion over whether it should be viewed as a "failure" overall or not by the club. But my point is I can see the logic of selling, *if* that relationship is indeed beyond repair.
I’m not a fan of Evander or Grabavoy (as a GM, at least), so if I’m lucky this issue sends them both on their way eventually.
Evander may be very talented, but his attitude in general has sucked since he arrived and it has negatively affected this team for two seasons. He appears to have low leadership skills and is far too focused on himself to be an effective leader. I’d rather replace him with talent that gives off the impression that they care about the club as much as they care about themselves.
For all the talent, I don’t see him making the Timbers a better TEAM. He drives too much focus on individualism for this team to succeed with him.
He is no Diego Valeri. Sell him now.
And on the Ned side, I’d just prefer someone who has had far more experience in that realm. Ned felt like an immediate-need hire when the Timbers should have done a proper search for the position.
"He appears to have low leadership skills and is far too focused on himself to be an effective leader."
Evander finished 2024 tied for the league lead - the LEAGUE LEAD, not just the team, not just the Western Conference - in assists with 19. Evander finished 2024 with 0.55 assists per 90 minutes. And that's not even getting into the actual goals he scored, the raw number of which, by the way (15), is fewer than his number of assists.
I'm pretty sure there are some criticisms one could make of Evander should one try hard enough, but "far too focused on himself" - well, that sure is a take.
Water under the bridge at this point. In addition to improving our roster, Ned needs to make the best of the situation with Evander whether he's sold or stays, but most of all, Ned needs learn from this experience. Perhaps Ned could have addressed the concerns before they got to the breaking point for Evander. I'm sure Ned was aware of how Evander was feeling. Taking that a step further, it was obvious the locker room was having Front Office issues with Dario, Santi, and whomever else had expressed concerns from previous seasons. Phil is far from perfect, but it does seem like he turned the mood in the locker room around a bit - or at least did a better job than Gio did.
Obviously, Ned needed to do damage control after Evander's Tweets, but I agree with RCTEyeDee, Ned and Phil should have just acknowledged Evander's concerns and let the rest of the Timbers fandom know its an internal issue that will be handled as such.
All true, RCTEyeDee...
And at this point in time, Ned has arguably more to lose over this situation than anybody else.
PTFC's reputation as an organization already sucked; Phil's suffered a bit of collateral damage at most; and Evander hasn't lost one bit of value because he's operated just like everybody who watches pro sports expects from a player in a stuck negotiation.
A year ago, Ned was a "MLS GM to Watch". Since then his team 'rebuild' was a defensive disaster, backed into the playoff and cratered, and he's allowed himself to look petty and vindictive by fighting publicly with his team's most valuable asset.
I would think that the longer you wait, the less leverage you have as a club to sell. I don't want to see him go either, but maybe they could add two or three good players for one sale.
Evander wanting to elevate his profile with an international call up is awesome, and it's something the Timbers can't really do anything about as far as making him want to stay here. The only thing that could change his mind is offering him more money than he could dream of and change his mind. They should try that, but the alternative is that I think the Timbers should embrace the idea of Evander wanting to move on and get on the same page with him. It's a win-win with a big sale and the prestige of a player like him playing on a bigger stage as a former Timber. They have to work together on this and agree on what they both want to facilitate making it happen. Ultimately, it's a business, and the egos and the feelings need to take a back seat. An earlier sale will potentially give the Timbers some time to build the roster with the huge hole he will leave.
I think, and I'd have to go back and look, he was clear from day one that the Timbers were a step on a ladder for him. He was gonna use the Timbers to get to the next level in his career, and I'm pretty sure the Timbers embraced that idea - as you say, it's a win-win because the Timbers would get the absolute best out of him, and at the end of his time here, they'd get the absolute best value out of him when he moves on.
As much as many people hate to hear it, not every player "plays for the badge", as antiquatedly romantic as that phrase is. Some play for themselves, and their career advancement, and that's absolutely fine, because that also benefits "the badge". That's what we're seeing with Evander, and it's brought a fantastic benefit to this team and this city.
"Ultimately, it's a business, and the egos and the feelings need to take a back seat."
100%.