There is literally nothing in Neville's coaching history to indicate he's any better of a coach than Gio was. And that's my problem; as I've said before, this was a unique chance for the Timbers to completely reinvent who they wanted to be by showing some ambition, and instead, they chose the worst possible candidate from an already unde…
There is literally nothing in Neville's coaching history to indicate he's any better of a coach than Gio was. And that's my problem; as I've said before, this was a unique chance for the Timbers to completely reinvent who they wanted to be by showing some ambition, and instead, they chose the worst possible candidate from an already underpromising list of candidates. If they wanted to continue to underperform, they should have just held on to Gio.
I'm not hoping for Neville to fail, but his hire doesn't inspire confidence that the Timbers want to get dramatically better any time soon, and that's the most depressing/upsetting thing about this whole hire to me.
I would tend to agree. This looks like a middling hire (at best) as far talent is concerned. The vitriol over the hire has less to do with Neville and more to do with an organization that can't help but slam its junk in the door at every opportunity. Do I think Neville is allowed to be repentent for really stupid stuff he said a decade ago? Yes. Does that mean he is the right hire for a club that still hasn't recovered from being a sexist boy's club? No. But that requires self-awareness that is fairly rare for the Portland Timbers.
However, when looking at the MLS landscape, the Timbers are no longer one of the class organizations in the league. The owner is polarizing, there is always a controversy of some sort, other than Ned the front office has disappeared into the ether--who the hell is piloting this ship?, the front office and supporters lack mutual respect, the team is solidly mediocre by default, and there are more empty seats than ever. I'm wondering if Phil Neville and Jason Kreis coming here is the best the Timbers can do at this point. I mean, that original list was far from inspiring.
"I'm wondering if Phil Neville and Jason Kreis coming here is the best the Timbers can do at this point. "
I mean, Miles Joseph would have been better than either, honestly - and I say that as someone who wasn't convinced he was the man for the job a month ago. But this...ugh.
"the Timbers are no longer one of the class organizations in the league."
Haven't been for years, honestly. A couple Cup runs out of nowhere don't really cement that status. the ability to go deep in the playoffs - not just make them, but actually progress - every season does.
That's not true at all. He did well with the Lionesses (2nd SheBelieves and a 1st) until a bad run of form. One of his Miami teams made the playoffs despite being hamstrung by roster limitations/inability to spend.
He also has A LOT more experience with high level players than Gio did when he came in (and even now.) He may not work out, but I don't think this is the doom and gloom hiring people are wanting it to be.
The Lioness players weren't very happy with Neville's coaching, that is one of the reasons (and results) that he didn't see out his contract. There was a general feeling that the Lionesses were winning despite the coach.
The only club evidence we have is a 39% win percentage at Inter Miami. So I think there's justified concern.
Yeah, Sarina Wiegman came in and the Lionesses were instantly better. I remember thinking that the USWNT had a secret ace up their sleeve when they played England in the 2019 World Cup - Phil Neville. He's never been more than mediocre in his coaching gigs.
True...but I'd call Wiegman one of WoSo's current elite coaches (along with Hayes, Ikeda, Bompastor, and - from a purely coaching perspective* - Vilda). You can count on the fingers of one hand the teams she wouldn't make better straight away. It's more his record at Inter Miami what concerns me about his coaching. How well does he understand what's needed to succeed in MLS?
His subsequent Miami team won 5 of 15 games before he was shown the door in the Messi rebuild.
"I don't think this is the doom and gloom hiring people are wanting it to be."
For me, Neville's hire shows the utter and complete lack of ambition to be a next-tier-up good team that seems to be driving the Timbers now. They had a chance to hire a really good coach who would be able to work with a dramatically reshaped roster and make the Timbers into something pretty great, and instead we get...a guy who did OK in one of his coaching jobs and did nothing of note in his others. Why should anybody be excited about this hire? What is it that I'm missing here?
Let me be clear, I’m not excited about this hire but when you look at the list of candidates we interviewed could/would you get excited about any of those guys? Is the PT job that undesirable that those are the type of guys we are bringing in as potential replacements? I don’t think Portland is a big enough draw to bring in a guy like an Antonio Conte or someone of that ilk but there are surely better candidates than what we got.
The one thing those other guys didn't do is make misogynistic public statements. In jest or in any other way. In the wake of the Riley / Polo scandals you'd think the FO could at least come up with someone who didn't have that kind of baggage.
I am far from an expert on who is available at any given time. But I do know that, apart from that list (which I agree was fairly uninspired), there are a whole bunch of assistant coaches at the Miles Joseph level, all over the world, who would be good coaching candidates, and would be good to build around long term, if that's what the Timbers really want. I mean, Gio was an NASL coach when he was hired, so it's not like plucking someone from the lower leagues/assistant ranks is a bad idea.
I would never expect the Timbers - or any MLS team that doesn't employ Leo Messi, really - to attract a coach like Conte. And that's fine, because MLS isn't that elite of a league. But I would expect them to not just fall back on a checklist whose top two items are "has he coached in MLS before" and "is he English", which seems to be two of the main drivers here.
Nobody wants a doom and gloom hiring. And those of us who have serious doubts about Neville — and hoped for someone with much better credentials — have no choice but see how he pans out.
The article below is somewhat reassuring. But of course it will take time to see if the execution backs up the words. Also, Grabavoy discussing the job with 20 diverse coaches is intriguing given the choice he made.
This is nothing against you or your comment, but forgive me if I don't take reassurance from an article published on the league's own website...hahaha.
I don't want Neville to fail. I want desperately to be wrong about his ability to coach at a high level. I just...don't see a ton of evidence that I am.
Good point. The article was timed to create talking points and blunt criticism leading up to today's news conference. I noticed that Neville didn't address or wasn't asked anything about his lackluster results at Miami. As a friend noted last night, the article is largely a "crisis comms" exercise guided by PR professionals. But it's helpful to hear from Neville and Grabavoy, who face intense scrutiny going forward.
As for the invisible CEO, I know she's not an apparition — I spoke with her after the Timbers preseason fan forum. But she's either muzzled or as another poster suggested hyper-focused on driving revenue.
Now I’m not gonna sit here and say Neville is the best coach we COULD have gotten but I think you’d be lying to yourself if you didn’t say he was the best out of the coaches we were interviewing. He’s had pretty decent success when coaching the England women’s national team, took Miami to the playoffs while they were going though MLS sanctions, and he’s worked at top clubs like Man U and Valencia.
Robin Fraser drove Colorado into ground before leaving the club with a sub .500 record, Torrent has proven to be a good assistant but not great on the head coaching front, Hendrickson tanked with Chicago, and while Miles did a pretty good job steadying the ship it still ended up sinking in the end. So for me the Timbers aimed pretty low when it came to hiring a new coach and in the end I think we got the option with the most potential upside out of those rather weak candidates.
he did nothing spectacular with England (55% winning percentage compared with Wiegman's 74% and Vlatko's 78.5% with the USWNT), was in a bad run of form that got bailed out by the pandemic and left as soon as one of his friends in the old boys network offered him a gig.
As for his work at Valencia...well it was very enjoyable for those of us who have cultured a hatred of the Nevilles for years
You might want to look at Colorado's cheap ownership before blaming Fraser for the Rapids' decline. How would you feel if Gio wasn't able to have two DPs?
He has a great coaching resume but he has a track record of not sticking around places for whatever reason. I think the Timbers really want to build something with this hire and I’m not sure Torrent has shown he can do that.
Torrent was extremely unhappy with how MLS roster/salary rules work, which is one of the reasons he left NY, so it may not have been possible to get him, and I get that. But the gulf in coaching talent between what the Timbers could have had and what they got is...stark.
And my standard disclaimer: I desperately hope I'm wrong! I really hope that Ned/MP saw something in Neville that we on the outside don't/can't see, that made them go "this is the guy to build around", and I hope Neville makes me eat every single one of my critical words. I'm just very afraid he won't.
There is literally nothing in Neville's coaching history to indicate he's any better of a coach than Gio was. And that's my problem; as I've said before, this was a unique chance for the Timbers to completely reinvent who they wanted to be by showing some ambition, and instead, they chose the worst possible candidate from an already underpromising list of candidates. If they wanted to continue to underperform, they should have just held on to Gio.
I'm not hoping for Neville to fail, but his hire doesn't inspire confidence that the Timbers want to get dramatically better any time soon, and that's the most depressing/upsetting thing about this whole hire to me.
I would tend to agree. This looks like a middling hire (at best) as far talent is concerned. The vitriol over the hire has less to do with Neville and more to do with an organization that can't help but slam its junk in the door at every opportunity. Do I think Neville is allowed to be repentent for really stupid stuff he said a decade ago? Yes. Does that mean he is the right hire for a club that still hasn't recovered from being a sexist boy's club? No. But that requires self-awareness that is fairly rare for the Portland Timbers.
However, when looking at the MLS landscape, the Timbers are no longer one of the class organizations in the league. The owner is polarizing, there is always a controversy of some sort, other than Ned the front office has disappeared into the ether--who the hell is piloting this ship?, the front office and supporters lack mutual respect, the team is solidly mediocre by default, and there are more empty seats than ever. I'm wondering if Phil Neville and Jason Kreis coming here is the best the Timbers can do at this point. I mean, that original list was far from inspiring.
"I'm wondering if Phil Neville and Jason Kreis coming here is the best the Timbers can do at this point. "
I mean, Miles Joseph would have been better than either, honestly - and I say that as someone who wasn't convinced he was the man for the job a month ago. But this...ugh.
"the Timbers are no longer one of the class organizations in the league."
Haven't been for years, honestly. A couple Cup runs out of nowhere don't really cement that status. the ability to go deep in the playoffs - not just make them, but actually progress - every season does.
I agree, if we were going to have ZERO ambition we could have just stayed with Joseph
That's not true at all. He did well with the Lionesses (2nd SheBelieves and a 1st) until a bad run of form. One of his Miami teams made the playoffs despite being hamstrung by roster limitations/inability to spend.
He also has A LOT more experience with high level players than Gio did when he came in (and even now.) He may not work out, but I don't think this is the doom and gloom hiring people are wanting it to be.
The Lioness players weren't very happy with Neville's coaching, that is one of the reasons (and results) that he didn't see out his contract. There was a general feeling that the Lionesses were winning despite the coach.
The only club evidence we have is a 39% win percentage at Inter Miami. So I think there's justified concern.
Yeah, Sarina Wiegman came in and the Lionesses were instantly better. I remember thinking that the USWNT had a secret ace up their sleeve when they played England in the 2019 World Cup - Phil Neville. He's never been more than mediocre in his coaching gigs.
True...but I'd call Wiegman one of WoSo's current elite coaches (along with Hayes, Ikeda, Bompastor, and - from a purely coaching perspective* - Vilda). You can count on the fingers of one hand the teams she wouldn't make better straight away. It's more his record at Inter Miami what concerns me about his coaching. How well does he understand what's needed to succeed in MLS?
* elite-tier coach...garbage tier human
"How well does he understand what's needed to succeed in MLS?"
Judging by his record and the purported lack of chemistry with his front office staff...not well.
His subsequent Miami team won 5 of 15 games before he was shown the door in the Messi rebuild.
"I don't think this is the doom and gloom hiring people are wanting it to be."
For me, Neville's hire shows the utter and complete lack of ambition to be a next-tier-up good team that seems to be driving the Timbers now. They had a chance to hire a really good coach who would be able to work with a dramatically reshaped roster and make the Timbers into something pretty great, and instead we get...a guy who did OK in one of his coaching jobs and did nothing of note in his others. Why should anybody be excited about this hire? What is it that I'm missing here?
Let me be clear, I’m not excited about this hire but when you look at the list of candidates we interviewed could/would you get excited about any of those guys? Is the PT job that undesirable that those are the type of guys we are bringing in as potential replacements? I don’t think Portland is a big enough draw to bring in a guy like an Antonio Conte or someone of that ilk but there are surely better candidates than what we got.
The one thing those other guys didn't do is make misogynistic public statements. In jest or in any other way. In the wake of the Riley / Polo scandals you'd think the FO could at least come up with someone who didn't have that kind of baggage.
I am far from an expert on who is available at any given time. But I do know that, apart from that list (which I agree was fairly uninspired), there are a whole bunch of assistant coaches at the Miles Joseph level, all over the world, who would be good coaching candidates, and would be good to build around long term, if that's what the Timbers really want. I mean, Gio was an NASL coach when he was hired, so it's not like plucking someone from the lower leagues/assistant ranks is a bad idea.
I would never expect the Timbers - or any MLS team that doesn't employ Leo Messi, really - to attract a coach like Conte. And that's fine, because MLS isn't that elite of a league. But I would expect them to not just fall back on a checklist whose top two items are "has he coached in MLS before" and "is he English", which seems to be two of the main drivers here.
Nobody wants a doom and gloom hiring. And those of us who have serious doubts about Neville — and hoped for someone with much better credentials — have no choice but see how he pans out.
The article below is somewhat reassuring. But of course it will take time to see if the execution backs up the words. Also, Grabavoy discussing the job with 20 diverse coaches is intriguing given the choice he made.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/phil-neville-brings-unfinished-business-into-portland-timbers-opportunity
This is nothing against you or your comment, but forgive me if I don't take reassurance from an article published on the league's own website...hahaha.
I don't want Neville to fail. I want desperately to be wrong about his ability to coach at a high level. I just...don't see a ton of evidence that I am.
Good point. The article was timed to create talking points and blunt criticism leading up to today's news conference. I noticed that Neville didn't address or wasn't asked anything about his lackluster results at Miami. As a friend noted last night, the article is largely a "crisis comms" exercise guided by PR professionals. But it's helpful to hear from Neville and Grabavoy, who face intense scrutiny going forward.
As for the invisible CEO, I know she's not an apparition — I spoke with her after the Timbers preseason fan forum. But she's either muzzled or as another poster suggested hyper-focused on driving revenue.
Now I’m not gonna sit here and say Neville is the best coach we COULD have gotten but I think you’d be lying to yourself if you didn’t say he was the best out of the coaches we were interviewing. He’s had pretty decent success when coaching the England women’s national team, took Miami to the playoffs while they were going though MLS sanctions, and he’s worked at top clubs like Man U and Valencia.
Robin Fraser drove Colorado into ground before leaving the club with a sub .500 record, Torrent has proven to be a good assistant but not great on the head coaching front, Hendrickson tanked with Chicago, and while Miles did a pretty good job steadying the ship it still ended up sinking in the end. So for me the Timbers aimed pretty low when it came to hiring a new coach and in the end I think we got the option with the most potential upside out of those rather weak candidates.
he did nothing spectacular with England (55% winning percentage compared with Wiegman's 74% and Vlatko's 78.5% with the USWNT), was in a bad run of form that got bailed out by the pandemic and left as soon as one of his friends in the old boys network offered him a gig.
As for his work at Valencia...well it was very enjoyable for those of us who have cultured a hatred of the Nevilles for years
You might want to look at Colorado's cheap ownership before blaming Fraser for the Rapids' decline. How would you feel if Gio wasn't able to have two DPs?
honestly we were running like 1.5 DP's throughout his tenure
Dome Torrent was interviewed by the Timbers, if reports are to be believed anyway. Dome Torrent is 100x the coach Phil Neville is.
his name is also 100x better than Neville
Right?
I honestly would have thought that was the name of some dark web application
it's the torrent site for people who really, really loved Under The Dome
He has a great coaching resume but he has a track record of not sticking around places for whatever reason. I think the Timbers really want to build something with this hire and I’m not sure Torrent has shown he can do that.
Torrent was extremely unhappy with how MLS roster/salary rules work, which is one of the reasons he left NY, so it may not have been possible to get him, and I get that. But the gulf in coaching talent between what the Timbers could have had and what they got is...stark.
And my standard disclaimer: I desperately hope I'm wrong! I really hope that Ned/MP saw something in Neville that we on the outside don't/can't see, that made them go "this is the guy to build around", and I hope Neville makes me eat every single one of my critical words. I'm just very afraid he won't.