I honestly don't have strong feelings about making it to the playoffs or, if we get there, making a good run. I just want to end the season having shed the malaise that has hung over this team for most of this year so that we can move into next year without a lot of baggage.
Of course I'm interested in seeing where it will go and want them to do well. Maybe a better way to say it is that this year the normal markers of success for the team--the season record and a deep run in the playoffs--matter less to me than more vibes-y things like the rapport, connection and unity in their interactions on and off the field, being "on" for the entire time they're on the field, playing with joy, etc. What I care most about this year is that they shake off what's had them stuck for much of this year.
This. Plus I'm also worried that somehow sneaking in to the playoffs will make Ned think "oh, things are better now!" and just keep the coaching staff exactly as is for next year. Which, in my head, also leads to marginal tweaks in playing personnel rather than the overhaul that is both possible and necessary this winter.
If Joseph finishes this season strong with this group, and then gets the job permanently, what are the odds he's going to want to blow up the group that got him a full time job?
I Ned sticks with Joseph it would be a huge mistake. This is the opportunity for the team to move in a new direction. If Joseph gets the team to the playoffs, its a great feather in his cap and gives him a real bullet point on his CV, but the Timbers need to make a strong effort to bring in fresh ideas.
Especially now, at the point where the Timbers will have a TON of money off the books and open roster spots this winter. This is a unique opportunity to turbocharge the team from the top down, and if they just go the safe route it will be a huge disappointment.
Joseph has switched us to a 4-3-3, rotated players, substitutions have been both logical and impactful, and this team is showing a bit of swagger it hasn't had in a long time. I don't have the expertise to say whether or not he should be manager, but there has definitely been some 'freshness' since he took over.
While I appreciate the work that Joseph has done, I just think its time to move in a new direction. The Timbers offer a good number of positive conditions for a new coach, some decent players to work with, a passionate fan base, and the clear desire to see improvement from the teams performance. We may not have the flash of a NY or LA, but I believe it is a desirable destination for a coach looking to develop a program. Going with an assistant coach who wasn't even the primary replacement for when the head coach is unavailable just doesn't drive any interest. I would feel that the team is settling for the easiest hire, similar to what happened with the Thorns.
Perhaps I'm wrong and Joseph is the hidden gem who becomes a great manager, but I'm looking for something more at this time.
I don't mean this as a slight against Joseph, but that "freshness" would probably happen with any interim coach - after 6 years of the same thing, a new thing is always refreshing.
That's why I'm hoping the Timbers look far and wide for a new coach, and don't get seduced by "he did well in his 10 game stint and he's already here". He may earn the right to be on the short list (I'm also not willing to say that after three games), but he better not be the whole list.
I don't think that Ned can really just do marginal personnel tweaks. He's got *at least* 3 big contracts that he simply *cannot* renew (Mabiala, Blanco, Niezgoda). Yimmi and Ivacic need to be decided and Moreno needs to be sorted out (and at least as of a couple of weeks ago, clearly wanted to go elsewehere). That's essentially 5 starting spots, which is in and of itself a good bit of mandatory rotation. In fact, I'm kinda worried that I don't even know if Ned and his staff have that many signings in them. They are like two dudes with shit analytics. Not to mention they need to sign a new coach and if it's not Joseph, they are going to have to sign the new guy some of his own guys (and staff).
Oof. That's an excellent point--especially since I think a reluctance to do so in the past is a big part of why we've struggled. There's significant changes to be made. I'd want them to go into the off-season with a sense of, "Well, we made a lot of progress and turned things around, but we've got a lot of work to do." Rather than what you're describing ("Maybe we're closer to what we need than we thought?") or a "Burn it all down!" sense if there's no sense of healing or progress in the remainder of the season.
If I'm being snarky, I would say "every year that Gio snuck a team into the playoffs late, rather than actually playing well all season". Or, if I'm being super cynical, I would say "because I don't think MP gives enough of a shit any more to greenlight paying for a world class/top of MLS-class coach when an in-house option is doing just fine".
There's no, like, official precedent, but there is definitely reason for concern that the Timbers will value the status quo over taking a big swing if Joseph closes this season strongly.
Note: I am not rooting for the Timbers to tank! I just fear that papering over the cracks will become the default mode of operation, and in this particular off season, the Timbers have a chance to build something special. I hope they don't waste that chance.
One little bit of information we got from Ryan Clarke recently is that Merritt Paulson is actually at Timbers training usually. If he didn’t care he would not be doing that. Do owners from any other MLS teams show up to any training sessions, let alone on a near daily basis? If he makes the wrong decision in terms of coaching (and currently we don’t really know if hiring Joseph would be right or wrong), I think that just means he’s not good at his job, not that he doesn’t care
So Gio was the source and sum of all our problems? Such an easy fix if that's the case! Unfortunately, I think sacking Gio will prove to be the easiest part of the work that's needed to get the team back to being upper-level competitors in the league. Ah well, time will tell, and I'll be delighted if it turns out I'm wrong.
I think it was a big part, and also having leadership guys back - Mora, Blanco - and a new coach who is holding guys accountable and playing the right guys, because Gio did not, I believe.
This game was awesome for a variety of reasons, but the post game press conferences were my favorite part. Zac, Larrys, and Miles shared some really interesting information that I'd like to highlight for those who missed it.
When asked about making offensive substitutions instead of defensive ones, Miles said "2-0. What do you have to lose? Lets go for it, lets go for more goals, and I think that's important at this point. We need 3 points, we don't need 1. ... You gotta be brave and you gotta be bold in times like this." LOVE IT!! Love that he's not scared, we can't settle down and let the opponent come at us, we should be trying to win every minute. He's probably seen us falter in the final 15 minutes a lot over the past six years and he wasn't about to let that happen again.
The Mabiala quote in regards to Ridgewell that's been going around is great as well. When Liam came in I think we all assumed he would be coaching the defense, but he was probably #2 to Llamosa, following his orders. Now he's the head defensive coach, and he's all over it. Mabiala said, "Liam's like all over everything and doesn't let anything slide, and that's good because I feel like especially for the last two seasons we've been letting a lot of small things slide that cost us so many points. And Ridgy's here and not letting anything slide and I like it." Really happy to see that Ridgy being in a more involved role is having a positive impact on the team. He's not too far removed from his playing days, so his knowledge is very valuable. Zac also mentioned that Ridgy was very upset by goals allowed from set pieces in the past couple games, and he placed an emphasis on set piece defending (30-35 minutes on set pieces is what he said).
Similarly to the previous quote, Zac mentioned that Miles and the coaching staff is calling players out in film sessions, holding players accountable for their mistakes. That is huge. With this and the last quote, I'm starting to think that maybe Gio was a little too nice to his players. I don't want my coach to let mistakes slide and not hold players accountable. Zac said, "We're not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but at the end of the day it's a professional sport and we're all trying to win and all trying to be better for each other." Hell yeah, they're big boys, they can take criticism to make themselves better.
Another thing he said is a small change but something that I think makes a big difference. Bingham was playing higher this game (and in general) so they can incorporate him in possession between the center backs. Previously, it's been Diego Chara (or another CM) dropping deep to receive the ball, which takes a key player out of the midfield. Bringing the keeper up allows for our midfield to stay intact, and now we can advance the ball much easier out of the back because we have that midfielder there to create triangles. I love this, it's a really small change but we've been able to play out of the back so much easier the last few games. I love that we're seeing these little tweaks that Joseph is implementing that make a noticeable difference on the field. Under Gio our gameplan to play out of the back has been to just give the ball to our fullbacks and have them play a pass to a central midfielder or winger, who usually has a defender on their back and often times will lose the ball. We're seeing the team click so much better in possession because of Miles (maybe I'm giving him too much credit and Gio was just really bad? Eh) and it's great to see.
Then something I observed myself this game was Paredes playing much more disciplined and not going up high as much. He likes to press high and try to win the ball high up the field, which is great, but it leaves a lot of space in the midfield. He was doing none of that this game, he stayed back a lot and it really helped to plug up the midfield. So while maybe he didn't do much on the ball, I felt his positioning was really effective and key for the win. Or maybe he was just tired from playing so many minutes this season, who knows lol
I may be overreacting but hearing all this responses gives me so much hope. It seems the players are really responding well to the coaching change, and it shows that with just a slight upgrade in coaching this team can play so much better than they have. I thought we were going to get crushed this game, I'll be honest. But now I'm excited to see where this team will go for the last few months
Shoutout to u/rzle on reddit, he makes summaries of the pre and post game press conferences each week and it's super helpful when I don't have time to watch the whole thing. That's where I got all this info.
Great post JJ. I've never seen a keeper so high as Bingham was and it is a new wrinkle that is definitely working. I love hearing about accountability. The team is responding really well, and when you get results, you start to build credibility.
At this point, I don't really care about who the coach is next season. Just enjoying the fact that the Timbers DO have good players and just needed a coach to get everyone on the same page and are starting to put it all together. This season has been a drudge until recently, so I'm getting on the bandwagon and going to milk it. I don't see how anyone can enjoy anything if they are thinking about how it should be in three months time. Enjoy the moment people.
"I don't see how anyone can enjoy anything if they are thinking about how it should be in three months time. Enjoy the moment people"
I mean, it's possible to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time? I enjoyed the hell out of Saturday, even as I'm worried about what this off season looks like.
Yes, I think people can do it, but I can't. I'm way too into the season and I actually dread the off season.
I'm mainly rooting for the team and delighted that Joseph is mostly doing what I would like to see and he is getting results. I get that the big picture definitely requires a deeper dive into the coaching search than who's sitting on the bench now, but I'm just not there yet.
I actually have a lot of faith in Ned to get it done. Who knows what he's told Joseph. I'm sure no promises were made. I don't know much about the staff, or who else might have been in the running for the interim job. Ned picked Joseph, and so far it's worked out pretty well, small sample size and all. I wonder what the story was with Llamosa. He just vanished. Was he loyal to Gio or did he get passed over for the interim job? Anyone ever get the scoop on that?
"He just vanished. Was he loyal to Gio or did he get passed over for the interim job?"
I've never seen anything public about it but either one is definitely possible - in my head it's because he got passed over for the interim job, but that could also have been because of his loyalty to Gio. I would be very interested to know.
My gut feeling on Llamosa is that he left when Gio was fired. If I remember correctly he was definitely a Gio guy, and it makes sense that he moved on.
This is my thought as well, roughly. I don’t think he was explicitly fired with Gio, but I think they kind of come as a package deal together, so firing Gio is essentially firing Llamosa as well. The club fired Gio and gave Llamosa the option to choose whether to continue with the Timbers or go with Gio, and of course he chose Gio. Would he have been offered the head coaching gig if he wasn’t so closely related with Gio? Who knows, and hell maybe he was and he turned it down. I’m sure both of them will get a job very soon
"it shows that with just a slight upgrade in coaching this team can play so much better than they have."
And without invalidating anything you say - because you're spot on with your observations - a "slight upgrade" at the head coach spot would be a HUGE failure of vision for this club. Like, compulsory-sale-because-of-mismanagement huge (even if I know that's not a thing).
In most years, I'd be OK with that level of "slight upgrade". But this year, with so many bad players coming off the books and thus so many salary dollars and roster spots potentially open, the Timbers have a chance that not many teams get. They could completely reinvent themselves and completely position themselves to be in the top tier of whatever the next, Messi-driven phase of MLS is. And they could start that by bringing in a coach that has a vision and a plan and a desire to push a team to that top tier.
Miles Joseph has been good in his first few games, and the Timbers have been a better team overall. But they're still not a good team, and this winter, they have a chance to become that through a wholesale change of staff, both playing and coaching. If in March next year we're still talking about Miles and this particular group of guys, because Miles did well with them in his interim stint, that's a massive problem.
I guess mostly I don't trust the Timbers to execute the vision the way I feel like they could; I hope I'm proven wrong, but the better the team does for the rest of 2023 the more I fear for the shape of things in 2024. I don't want them to tank, but I don't want a brief upswing to hide the fact that this roster is a mess and that a new coach with a vision and a plan could do some really good work this off season.
Of course -- trusting the Timbers organization to do the right thing isn’t usually advisable. I also don’t have any opinion on Miles in terms of whether I want him to stay or not, I just like what I’m seeing. And what I mean about a “slight upgrade” is that Joseph hasn’t been in charge long enough to make any significant upgrades. He’s only been able to implement slight changes. But it’s very possible that next year he can be a very significant upgrade with time to work with the squad, we just don’t know.
Being ambitious can also backfire massively. MLS is a weird league, and sometimes it’s best to go with someone that knows the league and it’s weird machinations (whether that’s Joseph or someone else). That goes for coach, players, and GM. Eric Miller is not very talented but he’s been very effective because he knows the league and how to play in it. Not saying I prefer one way or another -- I don’t care to make any judgements about this topic until the end of the season because there’s still tons of data we haven’t gotten -- but it’s something to consider
Your point on miller is pretty profound in MLS though. We need more MLS vets that have played elsewhere. I am not saying load the roster with them. But a couple guys that know the league. Have seen how things are done. Can convey that to the younger newer guys would go a long way to helping this teams
Totally agree on Miller. And this is one reason I'm not very critical of Ned, I think he has made some solid acquisitions over the past two years. He hasn't hit a home run on many, but the players he has brought in seem to be improvements to what we had.
100%. MLS teams are getting massive boosts from buying players from within the league, and we don’t exploit that market enough. Often, teams like the Timbers will spend millions on a foreign player just for them to be overpaid and perform worse than an MLS veteran making half their salary. The value of knowing the league is massive
I have always been a firm believer that every MLS team needs at least two, maybe three Eric Miller-level guys, primarily in defense but also occasionally in midfield. Not all as automatic starters, but they're very useful spot starters or 30 min guys.
As you say, they know the league, they know how to play against MLS teams and players, and they're reasonably cheap. This is where guys like Zarek tend to shine (not advocating getting him back, just saying that's his level/role) and why I will never complain about a player like that on the roster.
I think the Timbers have mostly gotten that mix of replacement-level guys and stars right in the past; they haven't always gotten the stars right, don't get me wrong, but they have always seemed to understand the need for a mix.
I'm not hoping the Timbers go full on early 2000's Real Madrid this winter and bring in nothing but super expensive guys, at all positions; I do want upgrades on the likes of Mabiala and Niezgoda, but I could easily see a Mabiala replacement, for instance coming from within MLS.
And that's why this winter is so exciting/terrifying for me - if the Timbers do it right, we're looking at mostly a new team next year, and that's all upside.
Well it’s not even entirely about getting the “Eric Miller type” guy, you can get starter level players too. What if we had nicked Julian Carranza from Miami instead of Philly? That probably would’ve solved our forward problems. Mihailovic was great for Montreal (and hell Bryce Duke was a good pickup for them too recently), Hollingshead for LAFC, Gioacchini for St Louis, Kamal Miller for Miami, Zimmerman for Nashville, Farfan for Dallas (ouch..), etc. Looking within MLS is a great way to not only get experienced veterans, but also really damn good players at a cheap price. San Jose for a 17 goal striker for just over $1 million... from US! Now Jebo has cooled off since then but still. Not saying we should only be shopping in MLS but it’s really something we should be doing much more for various types of players
Okay, this is a little lunatic, but for anyone wanting to remove the spoilers from Season Pass while watching on a browser, I found a wonderful workaround described in the following reddit post:
It involves adding an extension on the browser then cutting and pasting some CSS code, and the spoiler scores vanish, and stay vanished so long as the site is up on your browser.
Not super hard, I'm not a coder at all but I was able to figure it out in a few minutes.
I found the Chrome browser to be the least glitchy when it comes to Season Pass.
Chrome extensions aren't available for the Chrome mobile browser, so it isn't as straightforward for mobile, unless you're part of the 87% of Americans who have an iPhone and therefore don't have to watch MLS Season Pass on a mobile browser.
Well dang, it feels like it’s been awhile since a Timbers recap thread had over 100 comments. Happy to see all the chatting and have it not be depressing!
Mora is playing really well and is linking up and helping with possession. So much more flow with him.
Mabiala is less prone to defensive miscues when he doesn't have to play defense all the time, and our possession certainly helps with that. He had a really good game. His passing is a real benefit.
Bravo had a good game even without the goal. He was the key matchup and held Vela in check.
Evander looked like the bully on the playground, doing whatever he wanted. Awesome game from him.
McGraw - super solid.
Miller did great. He's no offensive juggernaut but he is super reliable as he demonstrated last night.
Bingham has taken the job and is not letting go. I can respect that.
Joseph is set on his rotation, and it is working, so kudos to him for how it is playing out. We'll see how it works on the road in another big game next week.
Moreno's moments continue to be when he is playing centrally. His flick on, for example, when he drifted in, and I still maintain he is not at his best as a winger.
Yimmi underwhelmed for the most part.
Blanco is still super dangerous and can provide opportunities. He's going to be a great asset down the stretch.
Paredes was so-so again offensively.
I'm not sure if Antony is going to get a good run or not. It looks like he is down in the pecking order, which is all right I guess.
Looking good! Great win! It's always great to send LA teams packing with an L.
Went to the game and had a great time. The team is really playing a lot better, and other than a 15 minute stretch after our first goal I felt we really outplayed the 3rd best team in the west. To be honest, this is the style of play I was expecting to see from the beginning of the season. We have younger players this year and a more attacking style should be what we have been doing the whole year. It looks like Evander and Moreno are both playing with more freedom, and are having a lot more fun playing as well. I'm not sure its enough to keep Moreno happy here in Portland, but it would help.
Enjoyed the game myself. Got a little luck on the first goal but nothing but happy for the second. Ran a clean sheet as well. It helps that Joseph is benefiting from a healthy Mora. I'll bet Gio wishes he'd had that but Moreno looks reborn. He's such a talented kid but he really needs to hone his craft. His eyes get caught on the keeper and the ball follows. I also think Parades is playing his best soccer. It just seems Gio's voice just got old to the players. It happens.
Obviously the coach has changed, however what has changed within the team's style of play? Well the attack is more varied, not wholly reliant on trying to break lines with a killer counter. Not sure about some of the direct long balls to Mora or Moreno, however the fact they are varying the attack we aren't predictable.
All this plus we are looking to retain possession, rather than constant counter is helping the defense transition.
Overall, a solid performance.
Bingham's distribution was terrible, he might as well kick the ball out of play and give us a chance to reset.
Bingham's distribution is a work in progress for sure but I've come around otherwise. I think he is much better at marshaling the defense than Ivacic is. You can see him working anytime the opposition has the ball. He's a good shot stopper as well. If you are only going to have two out of three then those are the two to have.
Bingham has been a professional keeper for far too long for his distribution to be a work in progress. He's not going to get better. We need to a better starter than him or Ivacic.
If we trade or waive him, which I'm fine with as long as it doesn't mean doubling down on Bingham as the starter. Otherwise, he's under contract. He might have a redemption arc. I think he could be better than Bingham, even if he's never good enough.
I think you're right. The good thing is that Ivacic's under contract until 2025, and he's still got enough value that he should bring something good in return.
GK is not a position where DP-level money should be spent, but sticking at that 375K level should result in a pretty good keeper - there's a handful that make significantly more, like Andre Blake and Stefan Frei, but most MLS starting keepers are in that sort of 300-425K range. So it's definitely possible to upgrade quality for a similar cost.
I replied before seeing your comment but you said it and then some. We would have been paying too much to have Clark and Ivacic in that range and I think we were already committed to Ivacic, so letting Clark go made financial sense even if he weren't asking for more. I'm a bit more flexible about how much we're spending at keeper since Sulte is on a homegrown contract but that's still money better spent elsewhere.
I am not entirely sure about your retain possession point. I find starting the action with the ball at the feet of the gk and a cb paired square on his flank, just to bang a 50-50 ball out wide for Yimmi Chara to try to win it in the air a bit perplexing. There were 4-5 of those that went straight out of play. What is the desired result of that?
However, to your point there were other passages of play where there was patience and they did look to unlock LA, but I think that was more of a result of having a lead.
Their best opportunities came from springing a trap in the central third and quick countering, which is what this team is built to do.
Mora seems to get in behind better than most for direct through balls, but I would like to see him paired with Boli on top in a 3-5-2. Both those guys want to score so badly neither should be out of the 11.
It was nice to see them keep a clean sheet. They are going to need more of those if this season is to go anywhere since they struggle to bag goals.
In the random soccer news category, Inter Miami tickets immediately dropped from $150 to $40 when it was revealed Messi couldn't make their game v. Atlanta.
Makes me *really hope this phenomenon is a one off and doesn't happen to Portland, regardless of results. I like being able to afford tickets.
Wednesday will be the only minutes Chara has been eligible for this season that he hasn't played - he missed one game for yellow card suspension, but otherwise he's played every minute of every game so far.
They're playing Austin on Sunday, so unless he's suspended for that one that will be his first miss (excluding suspension). He'll miss Wednesday against San Jose too, of course. And probably next weekend's Colorado game. It's just not Timbers' year.
ON another note. This is the perfect time to put Paredes in at the six and move Moreno to the eight alonside Evander. Start Yimmi and Blanco at the wing. Watch it cook. Chances are, though, that Yimmi and Asprilla will. Not my preference.
Or worse case scenario for me: Paredes stays at the eight and they start Acosta at the six and leave Moreno at the wing.
It was really great to see Mabiala have a good game. He was solid and almost brilliant on the second header attempt. He looked fit and physical and smart. Where did that come from? Pride?
I'll agree with you on Mabiala, he looked good in the game. He is a pro, and I don't mind seeing him on the field in limited minutes. I'm even okay with a start here and there, but the team simply can't rely on him to play 90 minutes game after game. I like him as a depth player at this point in his career, but for him to be one the highest paid players on the team really hurts the roster.
I desperately want Mabiala gone, but he's not as highly paid relative to the roster as he used to be. He's making 400K/year, 10th highest on the squad. He's out of contract after this season, so that's an easy decision for me - reclaim the roster spot and that salary and upgrade the defense.
He’s not super highly paid but he’s highly paid relative to his contributions to the team. He had a decent game and he scored so we’re all happy for him, but let’s not forget that he’s costed us a goal almost every time he’s started the past 12 months at least. He’s a leader in the locker room which is great, but anytime he starts he’s a massive liability. He did almost make a few mistakes that could’ve costed goals this game
I seemed to recall him being paid more. Perhaps I was thinking of prior years? Regardless he is highly paid to be a rotation/spot starter. He should be done after this season, and we should see a CB group of McGraw, Zuparic and Arraujo.
Also, I really am liking the 433. I was kind of nervous about Evander playing in the second line of the 433, but it looks like he’s enjoying himself and he’s definitely getting opportunities to move and to connect. I do really wish that Asprilla would’ve come on for younger Chara. As much as I’d like the guy generally and adore, his older brother, his performance in the game was subpar. It would’ve been nice to have both Moreno and Asprilla as point people to receive balls. Asprilla is definitely better at that than Jimmy and his overall physical presence is an absolute menace.
A wide winger to run at people is always what Darion was/is good at. A striker he is not. Just to be clear that was a foolhardy experiment imo. Oh, also, that half hearted attempt at a bicycle from Evander was kind of sad. Had to laugh. If you’re going to get on the bike, you got to really commit to it and I’m not sure there’s anyone who commits much better than Asprilla, lol.
First, Dairon is great coming off the bench. He can do a lot of damage in 15 - 20 minutes and can fade as a starter. He had a good outing last night. In general, I've always wondered about Dairon -- to me he does seem like a striker. He's got all of the characteristics - not a great passer, looks to score, rarely sends in a cross, usually drifts into the middle. I wonder if the Timbers screwed up his trajectory by playing him on the wing. I think he's been game, but to me he seems more like a natural forward/striker. But whatever, he's doing well right now.
Add to that, we started him at striker in multiple games in what, 2021 (I may have the timeline wrong, but before Mora arrived and during the period when Niezgoda was out injured, Ebo had been shipped out and we didn't have a fit striker on the team. He wasn't good, much better on the wing.
I think he can do both. He’s been a winger his whole career and that’s his natural position for sure, but as his play has developed he can be a pretty serviceable striker too. We played him at striker for 4-5 games down the stretch last year because Niezgoda wasn’t cutting it and we looked soooooooo much better and dynamic. Gio’s persistence on playing Niezgoda up top when we had, in my opinion, two much better options in Asprilla and Nathan was mind boggling
I too wonder where Evander plays best. It seems he likes the left channel and slide in on his right foot and he can bang it. However, defensively he is too selective in his participation and with 3 midfielders that is too much space left open. I like him in the 11 but I would rather a 3-5-2 and would like to see Moreno and Boli paired on top. Both are out and out strikers who want the ball, and make commanding movements off the ball. None of matters if they don’t keep the ball out of their net, which they did this week and was a big positive adjustment.
The shift in mentality is really undeniable. But as someone else has said, there’s often a bit of a bump when a new manager hits. The real question is does his coaching philosophy and tactics stick and pay off long term. I’d also say that if Miles Joseph gets us into the playoffs, which quite frankly is a tough ask, and we do relatively well. I think he’s earned himself a front runner position for the full-time job. I do not think though that that should keep Ned and Company from casting a wide net which I fully agree with. If Portland wants to keep pace with the best clubs in MLS, they need to make sure they’re homegrown talent, players, or coaches, are quality enough to compete with the best talent from outside.
Is it crazy to think that this guy was probably just sitting in the coaches' meetings and supporting Gio and probably had his own ideas, but kept them to himself, and then lo and behold Ned taps him on the shoulder. The results and the eye test say he's done a very good job. I also think he has more to play with, but so did Gio at times, but he would get the lineup wrong. Ned deserves some credit so far for pulling the trigger but also getting the right guy in there right now.
Who knows how this will all shake out, but the way the Timbers are playing, who would want to play them? Maybe Miami.
I hope he doesn't end up being our coach. I don't think he has a progressive soccer mind. I could be wrong but I'm hoping for more possession oriented progressive soccer in the Timber's future with a brainy coach. I'm kind of tired of the rudimentary style of play.
I think Joseph has already shifted the team to be a little more possession oriented. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t dominating games, but we aren’t sitting back as much as we used to and we’re looking to always keep the ball. We’re playing out of the back under pressure a lot more. He can’t change a lot right now but I think we’ve seen signs that if he does get the job full time, he will be a much more possession based, progressive coach than Gio
I agree that we are seeing a shift in how the team plays. There is only so much a coach can implement in the last 2? months of a season. While I appreciate the work that Joseph has done with the new style of play, I still don't think he should be in the mix. There is a lot of roster building to do on this team.
That was...weird? At half time I called it "the most unconvincing 1-0 lead I've seen in a long time". The Timbers struggled for coherence, and when you're seeing Larrys Mabiala score a goal, welll....hmmm.
I will happily take the win, and eat my words from yesterday; I'm just kinda confused as to how it happened. But three points are good!
Timbers managed the big moments. There was a 15 minute period before half-time, where I felt LAFC were turning the screw on us. If they had scored then, the momentum would probably have switched.
The Timbers came out for the 2nd half in a positive frame and once it was 2-0 LAFC were on the flight home.
I think that's the coaching mentality switch. Gio would have continued to sit and counter after going 1-0 up.
The ending of that match with Portland actually finishing off the game in LAFC's half instead of with 10 guys bunkered in our own box was the most satisfying stretch of Timbers soccer I've seen in a long time. Obviously there have been massive moments, but in terms of actually just getting shit done, this was up there.
And that was extremely important too because LAFC were building up some pressure. And Joseph actually has the team defending with the ball! I don’t know if we’re just accustomed to terribly play the last few years, but seeing simple things like that feel so damn good
I think the Timbers started pressing a little higher up the pitch with more aggressive D. LA started making a lot of turnovers and then we had the counter attack.
I’m really torn as to our coaching situation. History has shown that most teams respond well to a mid season coaching change. It’s usually the next season that truly determines success or failure. I really like what our new coach has done. Has he done enough? Can he develop talent? Can he help Grabavoy make those tough decisions about getting rid of non performing players? I really want a new coach, but I will say that yesterday’s performance makes it harder to justify.
If the outcome of this 10 game interim coach stretch is "Miles Joseph gets the job full time", I will be extreeeeeeeeeemely disappointed. After all, he and Liam and the other coaches are all Gio proteges; if they promote from the existing staff, will anything really change about the club or will there just be tweaks around the edges?
"I really want a new coach, but I will say that yesterday’s performance makes it harder to justify."
I would hope the Timbers make decisions on facts, not one-game emotional reactions. If the Timbers keep winning like this, there's a conversation to be had, for sure, but I hope the Timbers show more ambition than Miles Joseph.
I think calling Miles Joseph (and Ridgy to an extent) “Gio protégé” is pretty harsh. He’s been an assistant at two clubs prior to Portland, and while his job the past six years has been to execute Gio’s vision, he probably has a different idea of how to see the game and coach the team. We’re already seeing that with the team, it’s only been, what, 3 weeks with him at the helm? We see a team more organized defensively and offensively with more of an emphasis on possession. Llamosa is more of a Gio protege, Miles seems like a guy who was brought in as a successful assistant with a different philosophy
Not saying he wouldn’t be an underwhelming hire, he probably would be, but let’s be fair to the guy. There are also several other coaches we could hire that would be underwhelming
Yeah, I didn't mean that as as much of a dig as it sounded like. I only meant that I don't think an assistant from the staff of the fired coach would be an ambitious hire for a team that should want to use this opportunity to rebuild the coaching staff and take a big step forward as an organization.
The Timbers have been more organized, for sure, and are more interesting to watch now, for the most part, but what I don't want is for the club to look at no one other than who they have in-house for their next coach. If the Timbers finish strong under Joseph, that's great, but I don't want their coaching search to begin and end with "this guy did well for 10 games, compared to the last guy - let's hire him".
Should he be in the conversation to be the next coach? Sure, if he finishes well over these last, what, 7 games. But if the Timbers sneak into the playoffs somehow, that doesn't mean Joseph should automatically get the job, and I fear that's what will happen.
I guess all I'm saying is that the Timbers need to cast a wide net for their next coach, and not just automatically settle for the in-house option if said option does fine for 10 games.
Yes, exactly. The Timbers need to be ambitious in hiring a coach with some serious credentials. We are supposed to be one of the best organizations in America. We need to think big.
For sure. I also have the nagging feeling that we’ll end up hiring Joseph at the end, for better or for worse. Would not be ambitious but it could pay off (I’d probably rather not take that risk)
Oh god no.... Experienced coach please. I will be MASSIVELY disappointed if they hire Ridgy as head coach. Love the man, total legend, but in no way shape or form ready to be the head coach of a team that it theory wants to be a contender.
I don’t. Does he have his A coaching license? Genuine question, I’m not sure. This is his first coaching gig, right? Making him a head coach this early would be a massive mistake. I don’t think he’s a real possibility
Ok I snorted coffee at Ridgy being a 'Gio protegé'. Their relationship literally started with Ridgy getting benched for philosophical differences. Ridgewell has also played at a higher level than Gio has ever sniffed, and he's only been on the coaching staff for what, 6 months?
Your point seemed to be that you didn't think Ridgewell was a "Gio protege". You then went on to talk about Ridgewell's playing career as evidence of that, which doesn't really have anything to do with refuting Ridgewell's coaching arc so far.
He's learning how to coach in MLS, and up until four weeks ago, all that learning - all six months of it - has been under Gio. Whether six months' time is enough to be called a "protege" is a fair question, but there's no question his coaching learning was being done under Gio.
I am with you on this. A few more years and he may be ready. But to give it to him now feels way premature.
I like the direction in terms of attention to detail and a system. But I feel someone new with a new system. Something exciting and bold. I do not want a pragmatic boring team. For as much as I dislike Seattle they used to be entertaining as heck, now they have been successful under Brian but they are painfully boring to watch. End line pull back to the penalty spot over and over and over.
I honestly don't have strong feelings about making it to the playoffs or, if we get there, making a good run. I just want to end the season having shed the malaise that has hung over this team for most of this year so that we can move into next year without a lot of baggage.
The Timbers just ragdolled LAFC. You don't want to see where this can go?
Of course I'm interested in seeing where it will go and want them to do well. Maybe a better way to say it is that this year the normal markers of success for the team--the season record and a deep run in the playoffs--matter less to me than more vibes-y things like the rapport, connection and unity in their interactions on and off the field, being "on" for the entire time they're on the field, playing with joy, etc. What I care most about this year is that they shake off what's had them stuck for much of this year.
This. Plus I'm also worried that somehow sneaking in to the playoffs will make Ned think "oh, things are better now!" and just keep the coaching staff exactly as is for next year. Which, in my head, also leads to marginal tweaks in playing personnel rather than the overhaul that is both possible and necessary this winter.
If Joseph finishes this season strong with this group, and then gets the job permanently, what are the odds he's going to want to blow up the group that got him a full time job?
I Ned sticks with Joseph it would be a huge mistake. This is the opportunity for the team to move in a new direction. If Joseph gets the team to the playoffs, its a great feather in his cap and gives him a real bullet point on his CV, but the Timbers need to make a strong effort to bring in fresh ideas.
Especially now, at the point where the Timbers will have a TON of money off the books and open roster spots this winter. This is a unique opportunity to turbocharge the team from the top down, and if they just go the safe route it will be a huge disappointment.
Joseph has switched us to a 4-3-3, rotated players, substitutions have been both logical and impactful, and this team is showing a bit of swagger it hasn't had in a long time. I don't have the expertise to say whether or not he should be manager, but there has definitely been some 'freshness' since he took over.
While I appreciate the work that Joseph has done, I just think its time to move in a new direction. The Timbers offer a good number of positive conditions for a new coach, some decent players to work with, a passionate fan base, and the clear desire to see improvement from the teams performance. We may not have the flash of a NY or LA, but I believe it is a desirable destination for a coach looking to develop a program. Going with an assistant coach who wasn't even the primary replacement for when the head coach is unavailable just doesn't drive any interest. I would feel that the team is settling for the easiest hire, similar to what happened with the Thorns.
Perhaps I'm wrong and Joseph is the hidden gem who becomes a great manager, but I'm looking for something more at this time.
We were playing a 4-3-3 several games before Joseph was in charge
I don't mean this as a slight against Joseph, but that "freshness" would probably happen with any interim coach - after 6 years of the same thing, a new thing is always refreshing.
That's why I'm hoping the Timbers look far and wide for a new coach, and don't get seduced by "he did well in his 10 game stint and he's already here". He may earn the right to be on the short list (I'm also not willing to say that after three games), but he better not be the whole list.
I don't think that Ned can really just do marginal personnel tweaks. He's got *at least* 3 big contracts that he simply *cannot* renew (Mabiala, Blanco, Niezgoda). Yimmi and Ivacic need to be decided and Moreno needs to be sorted out (and at least as of a couple of weeks ago, clearly wanted to go elsewehere). That's essentially 5 starting spots, which is in and of itself a good bit of mandatory rotation. In fact, I'm kinda worried that I don't even know if Ned and his staff have that many signings in them. They are like two dudes with shit analytics. Not to mention they need to sign a new coach and if it's not Joseph, they are going to have to sign the new guy some of his own guys (and staff).
Oof. That's an excellent point--especially since I think a reluctance to do so in the past is a big part of why we've struggled. There's significant changes to be made. I'd want them to go into the off-season with a sense of, "Well, we made a lot of progress and turned things around, but we've got a lot of work to do." Rather than what you're describing ("Maybe we're closer to what we need than we thought?") or a "Burn it all down!" sense if there's no sense of healing or progress in the remainder of the season.
Is there some kind of precedent indicating that Ned will do this, rather than do the obvious, look for a top flight coach?
If I'm being snarky, I would say "every year that Gio snuck a team into the playoffs late, rather than actually playing well all season". Or, if I'm being super cynical, I would say "because I don't think MP gives enough of a shit any more to greenlight paying for a world class/top of MLS-class coach when an in-house option is doing just fine".
There's no, like, official precedent, but there is definitely reason for concern that the Timbers will value the status quo over taking a big swing if Joseph closes this season strongly.
Note: I am not rooting for the Timbers to tank! I just fear that papering over the cracks will become the default mode of operation, and in this particular off season, the Timbers have a chance to build something special. I hope they don't waste that chance.
One little bit of information we got from Ryan Clarke recently is that Merritt Paulson is actually at Timbers training usually. If he didn’t care he would not be doing that. Do owners from any other MLS teams show up to any training sessions, let alone on a near daily basis? If he makes the wrong decision in terms of coaching (and currently we don’t really know if hiring Joseph would be right or wrong), I think that just means he’s not good at his job, not that he doesn’t care
How does the chain of command work here? Does Grabavoy submit proposals to Paulson, who then has the final word?
"What I care most about this year is that they shake off what's had them stuck for much of this year."
Yes, they relieved Gio of his duties, so it's full steam ahead.
So Gio was the source and sum of all our problems? Such an easy fix if that's the case! Unfortunately, I think sacking Gio will prove to be the easiest part of the work that's needed to get the team back to being upper-level competitors in the league. Ah well, time will tell, and I'll be delighted if it turns out I'm wrong.
I think it was a big part, and also having leadership guys back - Mora, Blanco - and a new coach who is holding guys accountable and playing the right guys, because Gio did not, I believe.
This game was awesome for a variety of reasons, but the post game press conferences were my favorite part. Zac, Larrys, and Miles shared some really interesting information that I'd like to highlight for those who missed it.
When asked about making offensive substitutions instead of defensive ones, Miles said "2-0. What do you have to lose? Lets go for it, lets go for more goals, and I think that's important at this point. We need 3 points, we don't need 1. ... You gotta be brave and you gotta be bold in times like this." LOVE IT!! Love that he's not scared, we can't settle down and let the opponent come at us, we should be trying to win every minute. He's probably seen us falter in the final 15 minutes a lot over the past six years and he wasn't about to let that happen again.
The Mabiala quote in regards to Ridgewell that's been going around is great as well. When Liam came in I think we all assumed he would be coaching the defense, but he was probably #2 to Llamosa, following his orders. Now he's the head defensive coach, and he's all over it. Mabiala said, "Liam's like all over everything and doesn't let anything slide, and that's good because I feel like especially for the last two seasons we've been letting a lot of small things slide that cost us so many points. And Ridgy's here and not letting anything slide and I like it." Really happy to see that Ridgy being in a more involved role is having a positive impact on the team. He's not too far removed from his playing days, so his knowledge is very valuable. Zac also mentioned that Ridgy was very upset by goals allowed from set pieces in the past couple games, and he placed an emphasis on set piece defending (30-35 minutes on set pieces is what he said).
Similarly to the previous quote, Zac mentioned that Miles and the coaching staff is calling players out in film sessions, holding players accountable for their mistakes. That is huge. With this and the last quote, I'm starting to think that maybe Gio was a little too nice to his players. I don't want my coach to let mistakes slide and not hold players accountable. Zac said, "We're not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but at the end of the day it's a professional sport and we're all trying to win and all trying to be better for each other." Hell yeah, they're big boys, they can take criticism to make themselves better.
Another thing he said is a small change but something that I think makes a big difference. Bingham was playing higher this game (and in general) so they can incorporate him in possession between the center backs. Previously, it's been Diego Chara (or another CM) dropping deep to receive the ball, which takes a key player out of the midfield. Bringing the keeper up allows for our midfield to stay intact, and now we can advance the ball much easier out of the back because we have that midfielder there to create triangles. I love this, it's a really small change but we've been able to play out of the back so much easier the last few games. I love that we're seeing these little tweaks that Joseph is implementing that make a noticeable difference on the field. Under Gio our gameplan to play out of the back has been to just give the ball to our fullbacks and have them play a pass to a central midfielder or winger, who usually has a defender on their back and often times will lose the ball. We're seeing the team click so much better in possession because of Miles (maybe I'm giving him too much credit and Gio was just really bad? Eh) and it's great to see.
Then something I observed myself this game was Paredes playing much more disciplined and not going up high as much. He likes to press high and try to win the ball high up the field, which is great, but it leaves a lot of space in the midfield. He was doing none of that this game, he stayed back a lot and it really helped to plug up the midfield. So while maybe he didn't do much on the ball, I felt his positioning was really effective and key for the win. Or maybe he was just tired from playing so many minutes this season, who knows lol
I may be overreacting but hearing all this responses gives me so much hope. It seems the players are really responding well to the coaching change, and it shows that with just a slight upgrade in coaching this team can play so much better than they have. I thought we were going to get crushed this game, I'll be honest. But now I'm excited to see where this team will go for the last few months
Shoutout to u/rzle on reddit, he makes summaries of the pre and post game press conferences each week and it's super helpful when I don't have time to watch the whole thing. That's where I got all this info.
Great post JJ. I've never seen a keeper so high as Bingham was and it is a new wrinkle that is definitely working. I love hearing about accountability. The team is responding really well, and when you get results, you start to build credibility.
At this point, I don't really care about who the coach is next season. Just enjoying the fact that the Timbers DO have good players and just needed a coach to get everyone on the same page and are starting to put it all together. This season has been a drudge until recently, so I'm getting on the bandwagon and going to milk it. I don't see how anyone can enjoy anything if they are thinking about how it should be in three months time. Enjoy the moment people.
"I don't see how anyone can enjoy anything if they are thinking about how it should be in three months time. Enjoy the moment people"
I mean, it's possible to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time? I enjoyed the hell out of Saturday, even as I'm worried about what this off season looks like.
Yes, I think people can do it, but I can't. I'm way too into the season and I actually dread the off season.
I'm mainly rooting for the team and delighted that Joseph is mostly doing what I would like to see and he is getting results. I get that the big picture definitely requires a deeper dive into the coaching search than who's sitting on the bench now, but I'm just not there yet.
I actually have a lot of faith in Ned to get it done. Who knows what he's told Joseph. I'm sure no promises were made. I don't know much about the staff, or who else might have been in the running for the interim job. Ned picked Joseph, and so far it's worked out pretty well, small sample size and all. I wonder what the story was with Llamosa. He just vanished. Was he loyal to Gio or did he get passed over for the interim job? Anyone ever get the scoop on that?
"He just vanished. Was he loyal to Gio or did he get passed over for the interim job?"
I've never seen anything public about it but either one is definitely possible - in my head it's because he got passed over for the interim job, but that could also have been because of his loyalty to Gio. I would be very interested to know.
My gut feeling on Llamosa is that he left when Gio was fired. If I remember correctly he was definitely a Gio guy, and it makes sense that he moved on.
This is my thought as well, roughly. I don’t think he was explicitly fired with Gio, but I think they kind of come as a package deal together, so firing Gio is essentially firing Llamosa as well. The club fired Gio and gave Llamosa the option to choose whether to continue with the Timbers or go with Gio, and of course he chose Gio. Would he have been offered the head coaching gig if he wasn’t so closely related with Gio? Who knows, and hell maybe he was and he turned it down. I’m sure both of them will get a job very soon
"it shows that with just a slight upgrade in coaching this team can play so much better than they have."
And without invalidating anything you say - because you're spot on with your observations - a "slight upgrade" at the head coach spot would be a HUGE failure of vision for this club. Like, compulsory-sale-because-of-mismanagement huge (even if I know that's not a thing).
In most years, I'd be OK with that level of "slight upgrade". But this year, with so many bad players coming off the books and thus so many salary dollars and roster spots potentially open, the Timbers have a chance that not many teams get. They could completely reinvent themselves and completely position themselves to be in the top tier of whatever the next, Messi-driven phase of MLS is. And they could start that by bringing in a coach that has a vision and a plan and a desire to push a team to that top tier.
Miles Joseph has been good in his first few games, and the Timbers have been a better team overall. But they're still not a good team, and this winter, they have a chance to become that through a wholesale change of staff, both playing and coaching. If in March next year we're still talking about Miles and this particular group of guys, because Miles did well with them in his interim stint, that's a massive problem.
I guess mostly I don't trust the Timbers to execute the vision the way I feel like they could; I hope I'm proven wrong, but the better the team does for the rest of 2023 the more I fear for the shape of things in 2024. I don't want them to tank, but I don't want a brief upswing to hide the fact that this roster is a mess and that a new coach with a vision and a plan could do some really good work this off season.
Of course -- trusting the Timbers organization to do the right thing isn’t usually advisable. I also don’t have any opinion on Miles in terms of whether I want him to stay or not, I just like what I’m seeing. And what I mean about a “slight upgrade” is that Joseph hasn’t been in charge long enough to make any significant upgrades. He’s only been able to implement slight changes. But it’s very possible that next year he can be a very significant upgrade with time to work with the squad, we just don’t know.
Being ambitious can also backfire massively. MLS is a weird league, and sometimes it’s best to go with someone that knows the league and it’s weird machinations (whether that’s Joseph or someone else). That goes for coach, players, and GM. Eric Miller is not very talented but he’s been very effective because he knows the league and how to play in it. Not saying I prefer one way or another -- I don’t care to make any judgements about this topic until the end of the season because there’s still tons of data we haven’t gotten -- but it’s something to consider
Your point on miller is pretty profound in MLS though. We need more MLS vets that have played elsewhere. I am not saying load the roster with them. But a couple guys that know the league. Have seen how things are done. Can convey that to the younger newer guys would go a long way to helping this teams
Totally agree on Miller. And this is one reason I'm not very critical of Ned, I think he has made some solid acquisitions over the past two years. He hasn't hit a home run on many, but the players he has brought in seem to be improvements to what we had.
100%. MLS teams are getting massive boosts from buying players from within the league, and we don’t exploit that market enough. Often, teams like the Timbers will spend millions on a foreign player just for them to be overpaid and perform worse than an MLS veteran making half their salary. The value of knowing the league is massive
I have always been a firm believer that every MLS team needs at least two, maybe three Eric Miller-level guys, primarily in defense but also occasionally in midfield. Not all as automatic starters, but they're very useful spot starters or 30 min guys.
As you say, they know the league, they know how to play against MLS teams and players, and they're reasonably cheap. This is where guys like Zarek tend to shine (not advocating getting him back, just saying that's his level/role) and why I will never complain about a player like that on the roster.
I think the Timbers have mostly gotten that mix of replacement-level guys and stars right in the past; they haven't always gotten the stars right, don't get me wrong, but they have always seemed to understand the need for a mix.
I'm not hoping the Timbers go full on early 2000's Real Madrid this winter and bring in nothing but super expensive guys, at all positions; I do want upgrades on the likes of Mabiala and Niezgoda, but I could easily see a Mabiala replacement, for instance coming from within MLS.
And that's why this winter is so exciting/terrifying for me - if the Timbers do it right, we're looking at mostly a new team next year, and that's all upside.
Well it’s not even entirely about getting the “Eric Miller type” guy, you can get starter level players too. What if we had nicked Julian Carranza from Miami instead of Philly? That probably would’ve solved our forward problems. Mihailovic was great for Montreal (and hell Bryce Duke was a good pickup for them too recently), Hollingshead for LAFC, Gioacchini for St Louis, Kamal Miller for Miami, Zimmerman for Nashville, Farfan for Dallas (ouch..), etc. Looking within MLS is a great way to not only get experienced veterans, but also really damn good players at a cheap price. San Jose for a 17 goal striker for just over $1 million... from US! Now Jebo has cooled off since then but still. Not saying we should only be shopping in MLS but it’s really something we should be doing much more for various types of players
Okay, this is a little lunatic, but for anyone wanting to remove the spoilers from Season Pass while watching on a browser, I found a wonderful workaround described in the following reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/11d6un3/removing_spoilers_in_apple_tv/
It involves adding an extension on the browser then cutting and pasting some CSS code, and the spoiler scores vanish, and stay vanished so long as the site is up on your browser.
Not super hard, I'm not a coder at all but I was able to figure it out in a few minutes.
I found the Chrome browser to be the least glitchy when it comes to Season Pass.
Chrome extensions aren't available for the Chrome mobile browser, so it isn't as straightforward for mobile, unless you're part of the 87% of Americans who have an iPhone and therefore don't have to watch MLS Season Pass on a mobile browser.
Well dang, it feels like it’s been awhile since a Timbers recap thread had over 100 comments. Happy to see all the chatting and have it not be depressing!
A couple of things:
Mora is playing really well and is linking up and helping with possession. So much more flow with him.
Mabiala is less prone to defensive miscues when he doesn't have to play defense all the time, and our possession certainly helps with that. He had a really good game. His passing is a real benefit.
Bravo had a good game even without the goal. He was the key matchup and held Vela in check.
Evander looked like the bully on the playground, doing whatever he wanted. Awesome game from him.
McGraw - super solid.
Miller did great. He's no offensive juggernaut but he is super reliable as he demonstrated last night.
Bingham has taken the job and is not letting go. I can respect that.
Joseph is set on his rotation, and it is working, so kudos to him for how it is playing out. We'll see how it works on the road in another big game next week.
Moreno's moments continue to be when he is playing centrally. His flick on, for example, when he drifted in, and I still maintain he is not at his best as a winger.
Yimmi underwhelmed for the most part.
Blanco is still super dangerous and can provide opportunities. He's going to be a great asset down the stretch.
Paredes was so-so again offensively.
I'm not sure if Antony is going to get a good run or not. It looks like he is down in the pecking order, which is all right I guess.
Looking good! Great win! It's always great to send LA teams packing with an L.
Went to the game and had a great time. The team is really playing a lot better, and other than a 15 minute stretch after our first goal I felt we really outplayed the 3rd best team in the west. To be honest, this is the style of play I was expecting to see from the beginning of the season. We have younger players this year and a more attacking style should be what we have been doing the whole year. It looks like Evander and Moreno are both playing with more freedom, and are having a lot more fun playing as well. I'm not sure its enough to keep Moreno happy here in Portland, but it would help.
Enjoyed the game myself. Got a little luck on the first goal but nothing but happy for the second. Ran a clean sheet as well. It helps that Joseph is benefiting from a healthy Mora. I'll bet Gio wishes he'd had that but Moreno looks reborn. He's such a talented kid but he really needs to hone his craft. His eyes get caught on the keeper and the ball follows. I also think Parades is playing his best soccer. It just seems Gio's voice just got old to the players. It happens.
Yes, Mora is the key that unlocks the possession box. He's a cut above and we're really benefitting.
Obviously the coach has changed, however what has changed within the team's style of play? Well the attack is more varied, not wholly reliant on trying to break lines with a killer counter. Not sure about some of the direct long balls to Mora or Moreno, however the fact they are varying the attack we aren't predictable.
All this plus we are looking to retain possession, rather than constant counter is helping the defense transition.
Overall, a solid performance.
Bingham's distribution was terrible, he might as well kick the ball out of play and give us a chance to reset.
Bingham's distribution is a work in progress for sure but I've come around otherwise. I think he is much better at marshaling the defense than Ivacic is. You can see him working anytime the opposition has the ball. He's a good shot stopper as well. If you are only going to have two out of three then those are the two to have.
Bingham has been a professional keeper for far too long for his distribution to be a work in progress. He's not going to get better. We need to a better starter than him or Ivacic.
I'm pretty sure Ivacic is done at the Timbers.
If we trade or waive him, which I'm fine with as long as it doesn't mean doubling down on Bingham as the starter. Otherwise, he's under contract. He might have a redemption arc. I think he could be better than Bingham, even if he's never good enough.
Yep, not sure why but the fact is Bingham is our #1 keeper now. I would be shocked if Ivacic is still with us next season.
I think you're right. The good thing is that Ivacic's under contract until 2025, and he's still got enough value that he should bring something good in return.
GK is not a position where DP-level money should be spent, but sticking at that 375K level should result in a pretty good keeper - there's a handful that make significantly more, like Andre Blake and Stefan Frei, but most MLS starting keepers are in that sort of 300-425K range. So it's definitely possible to upgrade quality for a similar cost.
I replied before seeing your comment but you said it and then some. We would have been paying too much to have Clark and Ivacic in that range and I think we were already committed to Ivacic, so letting Clark go made financial sense even if he weren't asking for more. I'm a bit more flexible about how much we're spending at keeper since Sulte is on a homegrown contract but that's still money better spent elsewhere.
I am not entirely sure about your retain possession point. I find starting the action with the ball at the feet of the gk and a cb paired square on his flank, just to bang a 50-50 ball out wide for Yimmi Chara to try to win it in the air a bit perplexing. There were 4-5 of those that went straight out of play. What is the desired result of that?
However, to your point there were other passages of play where there was patience and they did look to unlock LA, but I think that was more of a result of having a lead.
Their best opportunities came from springing a trap in the central third and quick countering, which is what this team is built to do.
Mora seems to get in behind better than most for direct through balls, but I would like to see him paired with Boli on top in a 3-5-2. Both those guys want to score so badly neither should be out of the 11.
It was nice to see them keep a clean sheet. They are going to need more of those if this season is to go anywhere since they struggle to bag goals.
soft disagree. He was more on than off. I'm warming up to Bingham.
In the random soccer news category, Inter Miami tickets immediately dropped from $150 to $40 when it was revealed Messi couldn't make their game v. Atlanta.
Makes me *really hope this phenomenon is a one off and doesn't happen to Portland, regardless of results. I like being able to afford tickets.
Diego Chara just had an emergency appendectomy and will be out for a while:
https://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/2023/09/portland-timbers-midfielder-diego-chara-undergoes-emergency-appendectomy.html
Chará hardly ever misses games. Even this absence is only 1-3 weeks.... too bad it's happening just when the team has been playing better.
Best wishes Diego, I hope your illness and surgery aren't too painful.
Wednesday will be the only minutes Chara has been eligible for this season that he hasn't played - he missed one game for yellow card suspension, but otherwise he's played every minute of every game so far.
They're playing Austin on Sunday, so unless he's suspended for that one that will be his first miss (excluding suspension). He'll miss Wednesday against San Jose too, of course. And probably next weekend's Colorado game. It's just not Timbers' year.
yeah, I meant Sunday against Austin. Either way he's had quite the year and I hope he recovers quickly.
This is unbelievable! Get well!
ON another note. This is the perfect time to put Paredes in at the six and move Moreno to the eight alonside Evander. Start Yimmi and Blanco at the wing. Watch it cook. Chances are, though, that Yimmi and Asprilla will. Not my preference.
Or worse case scenario for me: Paredes stays at the eight and they start Acosta at the six and leave Moreno at the wing.
Do the right thing Joseph!
Did anyone watch the Spanish broadcast with Valeri?
no, and that's one of the best reasons I regret my Spanish is not fluent. Any thoughts?
It was really great to see Mabiala have a good game. He was solid and almost brilliant on the second header attempt. He looked fit and physical and smart. Where did that come from? Pride?
I'll agree with you on Mabiala, he looked good in the game. He is a pro, and I don't mind seeing him on the field in limited minutes. I'm even okay with a start here and there, but the team simply can't rely on him to play 90 minutes game after game. I like him as a depth player at this point in his career, but for him to be one the highest paid players on the team really hurts the roster.
Ooof, I didn't realize he is highly paid. We have a few players that aren't living up to their pay/DB designation. Yimmi especially...
I desperately want Mabiala gone, but he's not as highly paid relative to the roster as he used to be. He's making 400K/year, 10th highest on the squad. He's out of contract after this season, so that's an easy decision for me - reclaim the roster spot and that salary and upgrade the defense.
He’s not super highly paid but he’s highly paid relative to his contributions to the team. He had a decent game and he scored so we’re all happy for him, but let’s not forget that he’s costed us a goal almost every time he’s started the past 12 months at least. He’s a leader in the locker room which is great, but anytime he starts he’s a massive liability. He did almost make a few mistakes that could’ve costed goals this game
To be fair I did start my comment with "I desperately want Mabiala gone"....hahaha.
Oh for sure lol, it was more of a response to some other people, not you. I thought he was fine but MOTM (which I saw some people say)? Nah
I seemed to recall him being paid more. Perhaps I was thinking of prior years? Regardless he is highly paid to be a rotation/spot starter. He should be done after this season, and we should see a CB group of McGraw, Zuparic and Arraujo.
Also, I really am liking the 433. I was kind of nervous about Evander playing in the second line of the 433, but it looks like he’s enjoying himself and he’s definitely getting opportunities to move and to connect. I do really wish that Asprilla would’ve come on for younger Chara. As much as I’d like the guy generally and adore, his older brother, his performance in the game was subpar. It would’ve been nice to have both Moreno and Asprilla as point people to receive balls. Asprilla is definitely better at that than Jimmy and his overall physical presence is an absolute menace.
A wide winger to run at people is always what Darion was/is good at. A striker he is not. Just to be clear that was a foolhardy experiment imo. Oh, also, that half hearted attempt at a bicycle from Evander was kind of sad. Had to laugh. If you’re going to get on the bike, you got to really commit to it and I’m not sure there’s anyone who commits much better than Asprilla, lol.
First, Dairon is great coming off the bench. He can do a lot of damage in 15 - 20 minutes and can fade as a starter. He had a good outing last night. In general, I've always wondered about Dairon -- to me he does seem like a striker. He's got all of the characteristics - not a great passer, looks to score, rarely sends in a cross, usually drifts into the middle. I wonder if the Timbers screwed up his trajectory by playing him on the wing. I think he's been game, but to me he seems more like a natural forward/striker. But whatever, he's doing well right now.
He's played RW his entire career including for five years before coming to Portland. He's also 31.
Add to that, we started him at striker in multiple games in what, 2021 (I may have the timeline wrong, but before Mora arrived and during the period when Niezgoda was out injured, Ebo had been shipped out and we didn't have a fit striker on the team. He wasn't good, much better on the wing.
I think he can do both. He’s been a winger his whole career and that’s his natural position for sure, but as his play has developed he can be a pretty serviceable striker too. We played him at striker for 4-5 games down the stretch last year because Niezgoda wasn’t cutting it and we looked soooooooo much better and dynamic. Gio’s persistence on playing Niezgoda up top when we had, in my opinion, two much better options in Asprilla and Nathan was mind boggling
I think that is a big reason why I am glad Gio is gone. He really did do some head scratching personnel decisions.
I too wonder where Evander plays best. It seems he likes the left channel and slide in on his right foot and he can bang it. However, defensively he is too selective in his participation and with 3 midfielders that is too much space left open. I like him in the 11 but I would rather a 3-5-2 and would like to see Moreno and Boli paired on top. Both are out and out strikers who want the ball, and make commanding movements off the ball. None of matters if they don’t keep the ball out of their net, which they did this week and was a big positive adjustment.
Mora, right? Moreno is definitely not a striker.
The shift in mentality is really undeniable. But as someone else has said, there’s often a bit of a bump when a new manager hits. The real question is does his coaching philosophy and tactics stick and pay off long term. I’d also say that if Miles Joseph gets us into the playoffs, which quite frankly is a tough ask, and we do relatively well. I think he’s earned himself a front runner position for the full-time job. I do not think though that that should keep Ned and Company from casting a wide net which I fully agree with. If Portland wants to keep pace with the best clubs in MLS, they need to make sure they’re homegrown talent, players, or coaches, are quality enough to compete with the best talent from outside.
Is it crazy to think that this guy was probably just sitting in the coaches' meetings and supporting Gio and probably had his own ideas, but kept them to himself, and then lo and behold Ned taps him on the shoulder. The results and the eye test say he's done a very good job. I also think he has more to play with, but so did Gio at times, but he would get the lineup wrong. Ned deserves some credit so far for pulling the trigger but also getting the right guy in there right now.
Who knows how this will all shake out, but the way the Timbers are playing, who would want to play them? Maybe Miami.
I hope he doesn't end up being our coach. I don't think he has a progressive soccer mind. I could be wrong but I'm hoping for more possession oriented progressive soccer in the Timber's future with a brainy coach. I'm kind of tired of the rudimentary style of play.
I think Joseph has already shifted the team to be a little more possession oriented. Don’t get me wrong we aren’t dominating games, but we aren’t sitting back as much as we used to and we’re looking to always keep the ball. We’re playing out of the back under pressure a lot more. He can’t change a lot right now but I think we’ve seen signs that if he does get the job full time, he will be a much more possession based, progressive coach than Gio
I agree that we are seeing a shift in how the team plays. There is only so much a coach can implement in the last 2? months of a season. While I appreciate the work that Joseph has done with the new style of play, I still don't think he should be in the mix. There is a lot of roster building to do on this team.
That was...weird? At half time I called it "the most unconvincing 1-0 lead I've seen in a long time". The Timbers struggled for coherence, and when you're seeing Larrys Mabiala score a goal, welll....hmmm.
I will happily take the win, and eat my words from yesterday; I'm just kinda confused as to how it happened. But three points are good!
Timbers managed the big moments. There was a 15 minute period before half-time, where I felt LAFC were turning the screw on us. If they had scored then, the momentum would probably have switched.
The Timbers came out for the 2nd half in a positive frame and once it was 2-0 LAFC were on the flight home.
I think that's the coaching mentality switch. Gio would have continued to sit and counter after going 1-0 up.
The ending of that match with Portland actually finishing off the game in LAFC's half instead of with 10 guys bunkered in our own box was the most satisfying stretch of Timbers soccer I've seen in a long time. Obviously there have been massive moments, but in terms of actually just getting shit done, this was up there.
And that was extremely important too because LAFC were building up some pressure. And Joseph actually has the team defending with the ball! I don’t know if we’re just accustomed to terribly play the last few years, but seeing simple things like that feel so damn good
I think the Timbers started pressing a little higher up the pitch with more aggressive D. LA started making a lot of turnovers and then we had the counter attack.
I’m really torn as to our coaching situation. History has shown that most teams respond well to a mid season coaching change. It’s usually the next season that truly determines success or failure. I really like what our new coach has done. Has he done enough? Can he develop talent? Can he help Grabavoy make those tough decisions about getting rid of non performing players? I really want a new coach, but I will say that yesterday’s performance makes it harder to justify.
If the outcome of this 10 game interim coach stretch is "Miles Joseph gets the job full time", I will be extreeeeeeeeeemely disappointed. After all, he and Liam and the other coaches are all Gio proteges; if they promote from the existing staff, will anything really change about the club or will there just be tweaks around the edges?
"I really want a new coach, but I will say that yesterday’s performance makes it harder to justify."
I would hope the Timbers make decisions on facts, not one-game emotional reactions. If the Timbers keep winning like this, there's a conversation to be had, for sure, but I hope the Timbers show more ambition than Miles Joseph.
I think calling Miles Joseph (and Ridgy to an extent) “Gio protégé” is pretty harsh. He’s been an assistant at two clubs prior to Portland, and while his job the past six years has been to execute Gio’s vision, he probably has a different idea of how to see the game and coach the team. We’re already seeing that with the team, it’s only been, what, 3 weeks with him at the helm? We see a team more organized defensively and offensively with more of an emphasis on possession. Llamosa is more of a Gio protege, Miles seems like a guy who was brought in as a successful assistant with a different philosophy
Not saying he wouldn’t be an underwhelming hire, he probably would be, but let’s be fair to the guy. There are also several other coaches we could hire that would be underwhelming
Yeah, I didn't mean that as as much of a dig as it sounded like. I only meant that I don't think an assistant from the staff of the fired coach would be an ambitious hire for a team that should want to use this opportunity to rebuild the coaching staff and take a big step forward as an organization.
The Timbers have been more organized, for sure, and are more interesting to watch now, for the most part, but what I don't want is for the club to look at no one other than who they have in-house for their next coach. If the Timbers finish strong under Joseph, that's great, but I don't want their coaching search to begin and end with "this guy did well for 10 games, compared to the last guy - let's hire him".
Should he be in the conversation to be the next coach? Sure, if he finishes well over these last, what, 7 games. But if the Timbers sneak into the playoffs somehow, that doesn't mean Joseph should automatically get the job, and I fear that's what will happen.
I guess all I'm saying is that the Timbers need to cast a wide net for their next coach, and not just automatically settle for the in-house option if said option does fine for 10 games.
Yes, exactly. The Timbers need to be ambitious in hiring a coach with some serious credentials. We are supposed to be one of the best organizations in America. We need to think big.
For sure. I also have the nagging feeling that we’ll end up hiring Joseph at the end, for better or for worse. Would not be ambitious but it could pay off (I’d probably rather not take that risk)
I think Ridgy is a real possibility as well.
Oh god no.... Experienced coach please. I will be MASSIVELY disappointed if they hire Ridgy as head coach. Love the man, total legend, but in no way shape or form ready to be the head coach of a team that it theory wants to be a contender.
I don’t. Does he have his A coaching license? Genuine question, I’m not sure. This is his first coaching gig, right? Making him a head coach this early would be a massive mistake. I don’t think he’s a real possibility
Ok I snorted coffee at Ridgy being a 'Gio protegé'. Their relationship literally started with Ridgy getting benched for philosophical differences. Ridgewell has also played at a higher level than Gio has ever sniffed, and he's only been on the coaching staff for what, 6 months?
"he's only been on the coaching staff for what, 6 months?"
Yet another reason he shouldn't be seriously considered as a candidate for head coach.
That's an excellent point for an argument that wasn't being made.
Your point seemed to be that you didn't think Ridgewell was a "Gio protege". You then went on to talk about Ridgewell's playing career as evidence of that, which doesn't really have anything to do with refuting Ridgewell's coaching arc so far.
He's learning how to coach in MLS, and up until four weeks ago, all that learning - all six months of it - has been under Gio. Whether six months' time is enough to be called a "protege" is a fair question, but there's no question his coaching learning was being done under Gio.
I am with you on this. A few more years and he may be ready. But to give it to him now feels way premature.
I like the direction in terms of attention to detail and a system. But I feel someone new with a new system. Something exciting and bold. I do not want a pragmatic boring team. For as much as I dislike Seattle they used to be entertaining as heck, now they have been successful under Brian but they are painfully boring to watch. End line pull back to the penalty spot over and over and over.