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DebbiMc's avatar

I've eliminated all my Musk and Zuckerberg apps, so I'm

depending on all of you fine people on here to keep me up-to-date on breaking Thorns news.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Quite a few of our players (weaver, Hina, Bixby, McKenzie, Moultrie, Fleming, Reyes off the top of my head) have started pre-pre-season with MK.Elite in Beaverton.

ABell4's avatar

That’s who they all train with individually every off-season.

Also, that field they’re playing on- pretty sure that’s at Moultrie’s house lol.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Well I hope she gets a tifo every practice!

Do you recognize anyone else “interesting” in the videos?

ABell4's avatar

Nahh…just looks like a buncha folks who usually train with MK.

Kinda funny they’re doing trainings with him still rather than our preseason just…starting lol.

kielbj's avatar

Bluesky ain't a bad option either, fwiw. Most of my NWSL media follows (including Linehan) moved there after the election anyhow.

ABell4's avatar

Hmm. Never heard of her. Looks like she’s a midfielder? So maybe we’re building some depth with another young college player? She’s v small/petite. Smaller than Hina. Topdrawer ranks her at #46 in their college player rankings for 2024. Looks like she’s been part of the Colombian youth teams, and has just started getting time with the senior team….went to/played in the Olympics. We do need midfield depth, but honestly hope we don’t spend an int’l slot on more depth (esp in midfield)…at least that’s my initial feelings. It’s nice she has int’l pedigree, but again she’s young. Would be nice to use those slots to upgrade our starting XI, which still has not improved this off-season. Finding another CB and RW would be best uses of those so we aren’t restricted to using only the domestic market.

Regardless, not sure how I’d feel yet. Seems like a good depth piece to raise our floor, but we really need more than that. Still trying to be patient for some signings that will actually raise our ceiling. I beg that they’ll sign some players with actual pro experience and not just a bunch of kids. Would be nice if she had a green card from playing in college but I’m unsure how that works. It’s hard to make any judgements because I’ve never seen her play, and I haven’t looked up any stats. Curious what type of midfielder she is…I’m guessing more of a box-to-box bc it's the depth spot in mf that needs filling.

kielbj's avatar

Assuming this is true and Theo is just giving away unannounced transfer info on Twitter lol, she's a bit more than an another Tordin-esque college kid- She's 22 and started 2/4 matches as an 8 for Colombia's senior team at the Olympics. Just anecdotal so take it for what you will, but I have a Colombian friend who played for their youth teams when she was younger and apparently Izquierdo's been a real fast riser and bit of a late bloomer both through the Colombia youth ranks and in college. She was VERY good for MSU this season the 3-4 times I watched them. Also was arguably Colombia's best player in the Gold Cup against the U.S if you remember that game. Crazyyy work rate.

Definitely agree that using an international spot on what would presumably be a backup 8 would dampen my enthusiasm, so I do hope she has a green card. If she does it's pretty much the ideal high upside depth add imo.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Haha yeah I was standing in my freezing garage waiting for a load of laundry to finish, and thought, “Hey I wonder if that one dude has any Thorns rumors. I guess I’ll just ask him”

Ask and you shall receive…

ABell4's avatar

I thought that very funny also...but I guess sometimes you gotta just ask? Lol.

Anyways, that's cool you're familiar and have some insight into the Colombian youth teams. I also just read something that mentioned how she grew up playing only futsal and she didn't learn how to play the 11v11 game until she was like 18. And she's only 22! So, it would be interesting to see how she grows. It looks like she's also played a bit in the USL-W league with Asheville. I'd love to go back and watch a Colombia game from the Olympics if I find some time. Also this Gold Cup game you mention...I don't remember! Didn't think we could get a player smaller than Hina, but that's fun lol. She's basically my size.

Anyways, this is the exact kind of depth I've been wanting to see us bring in (high-upside youth), but yes, hope it's not at the expense of an int'l slot. Raising the floor is great (and was needed), but they've yet to raise the ceiling at all this offseason.

DavidK's avatar

Miharu Shinjo is smaller than Hina. Just pointing that out...

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Jan 20, 2025
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kielbj's avatar

If she can't do better than an NRI deal (I would be very surprised if that's what it is), she should fire her agent into the sun. Kid started games in central midfield for a Olympic quarterfinalist at 21 and was a consensus top 50 prospect.

ABell4's avatar

Yeah for a roster still sitting at 21 players that would be strange…

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Jan 20, 2025
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Beckenbauer's avatar

pretty sure she had a banger of a goal against us in gold cup

ABell4's avatar

Naw I went back and watched highlights but there were no Colombia goals.

Beckenbauer's avatar

You are correct of The Wall made a great save but a decent shot on goal. Minute 2:15 in video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HoMjXIEc5AM

BarcaSiempre's avatar

I saw highlights of a Columbia versus Paraguay game. She scored the first goal on a header on a cross from the right winger. She is a quick little player.

I remember being worried about Hina’s size. That seems ages ago. Hina is so stealthy but surprisingly tough.

Thornando's avatar

Hina's superpower is her core strength and flexibility. She can evade or withstand just about anything.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Also why is she in Ft. Lauterdale with the US team? Edit I guess she’s not necessarily with the US team, but it’s an odd coincidence.

kielbj's avatar

https://ibb.co/rxWjRm5

Maybe they're going to photoshop her into this photo with Sam

ABell4's avatar

Could just be a connection flight from Colombia to Portland...but funny coincidence.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

I assume she plays on the left?

Constant Weeder's avatar

Maybe we should call her Derecho.

IIRC she plays on the right.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Insights from smart people plz :D

Beckenbauer's avatar

She is tiny. Stats seem so-so

Thornando's avatar

Anyone else's Thorns jerseys with the TikTok sleeve logo suddenly stop fitting?

SactoRick's avatar

Jersey drawer suddenly very quiet. CBD sleeve told the others to knock it off.

SactoRick's avatar

Good link. I think this matches the eye test from later in the season:

But the year took a toll, and Smith says that prioritizing rest has been essential to preparing herself for everything 2025 has to offer.

"I feel like this offseason was very much needed for me," she says. "While it was a great year, it was a long year — we just gave everything 110%, 24/7, so when we got to the offseason, it kind of just smacked us in the face."

Smith says she's physically bouncing back after a lingering ankle injury limited her playing time in the later half of 2024. "Most offseasons I'll take a few weeks and I'll start training," she says. "This offseason I took a little longer. I knew that in order to start this next year off right, I needed to give my body what it needed while I could."

Even @ 80% health when you represent a third of your team's scoring, they are not going much further. Here's to Soph 2.0.

ABell4's avatar

Yeah I'm still optimistic they'll get her some decent help on the RW. Also very happy that Weaver has been getting lots of reps in the offseason.

"Since I arrived in Portland, every year there's been change. I'm just used to it at this point," she says...

Let's get this gal some stability here though, please!

BarcaSiempre's avatar

Yes a rested and recharged Smith; Morgan Weaver and Reilyn Turner with some National Team exposure, reps and confidence boost; that is all promising for 2025. I hope Linnehan and Spaanstra are getting ready because RW help doesn’t seem to coming.

Pietra Tordin will add a jolt to the midfield that is already pretty good.

Call me an optimist, but I am looking for Diaene to surprise us.

ABell4's avatar

We do still have a couple months until the season starts. I think a lot of the int'l signings end up happening late in the offseason due to Euro league transfer windows not opening until around Jan 1st...so I think they'll bring in some more folks. Unless they're still making the same weird FO choices, I don't think they wouldn't have gotten an additional int'l spot in the Hogan trade (we already had 1) if they didn't intend to use them both. Bigger deals tend to take longer as well. Still holding out some hope there. Agoos specifically mentioned getting Sophia some help up there, so I imagine they're trying to do so. Tordin will be a good depth piece, but is very young so I don't think that's what they meant by getting Soph more help. She's likely depth for Moultrie for a while.

With Daiane- hope so! We have many of the best attackers in the world in this league, so when I hear a CB isn't good in the Brazilian league because they are slow and/or a bad defender...well, it gives me pause when they come here. Hiatt and Obaze should be decent enough, but they will have to add at least 1 more CB. Hopefully that will be a solid addition as well, then I'll feel better about our CB group.

BarcaSiempre's avatar

Yes and when one says soccer player the position defender doesn’t pop into your head. BUT Roberto Carlos was one of the best FB to ever play the game; he had a canon for a leg. So I will keep on hoping for a great surprise from Daiane.

Thornando's avatar

All-Time Leading Thorns Goal Scorers (regular season, playoffs, cups, other):

Christine Sinclair: 75

Sophia Smith: 48

Lindsey Horan: 31

Allie Long: 30

Morgan Weaver: 26

Nadia Nadim: 19

Alex Morgan: 15

Tobin Heath: 15

Jbill83's avatar

A decent year for Weaver will put her right behind Soph. Go Weave!

SactoRick's avatar

Impressed to see Nadia among them. 19 in only 37 appearances.

Thornando's avatar

She could put the biscuit in the basket, though 8 of those were PKs. Scored 21 (3 PKs) in 36 matches with PSG, and 10 (2 PKs) in 25 matches with Loovull despite coming back from TWO ACLs while there.

kielbj's avatar

Weaver has 26 goals all comps, Soph has 48, and Sinc has 75 per fbref

Thornando's avatar

Thanks! Don't trust Wikipedia.

PTFC Dave's avatar

Allie Long has more goals than I would have guessed and Morgan Weaver has fewer. Shows what I know.

Also, I've been wondering for a while if Smith will catch Sinclair, which will depend on how long she plays here. Hopefully that's a long time!

A Dozen Roses, Eleven Thorns's avatar

As I recall (and being too lazy at the moment to just search her seasonal stats), Allie was scoring in bunches particularly during that period when she was trying to catch on w/ the nats.

I'm also delighted to note that Soph and Morgan combined are one goal behind Sinc; delighted because I have a hunch they would both be amused at that.

Thornando's avatar

I think she had 10 goals in 2015 and 5 goals in 2016, but don't quote me. JMac had 11 goals here in her single season as a Thorn too.

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Jan 21, 2025
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BarcaSiempre's avatar

Weaver could easily wind up in third place this year.

ABell4's avatar

Here's the full interview/video with Agoos. Says all the things you wanna hear...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75dHbRwd1UQ

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Jan 22, 2025Edited
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ABell4's avatar

Really? Hmmm. I generally have a pretty good bullshit detector and am usually pretty skeptical until proven otherwise...and I don't really get that with him (yet.) He is polished and says things we want to hear, but I'm inclined to believe he'll try to better this roster until he proves otherwise.

Just out of the gate, though, I can say that even just having someone who can say the right things is refreshing. After years of KK, Norris, and Gale...it's nice to honestly just have someone who sounds like a professional and like they might have a plan. Never felt a whiff of competency any time I listened to any of those 3 speak tbh, and Agoos at least *sounds* competent. He literally just got into the job, though...let's let him cook a bit. It's not his fault the FO/owners hired him as preseason was upon us all...

My real qualm is more with his lack of experience/connections on the women's side. But maybe he watches a ton of women's sports, who knows? Either way, it's why he came with data people.

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Jan 22, 2025Edited
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Stefan's avatar

Feeling the same- the interviewer's last question was the "oh you haven't mentioned Clive Charles yet" prompt. Two interviews so far, and it's like they're aiming for a sweet spot audience of people who are fan enough to care who the GM is, but too casual to care what a GM does.

FDChief's avatar

I kinda get the nostalgia for the "team culture" of the Parsons period. But Parsons chose to take the Netherlands gig, and I don't see how that culture could have remained unchanged in place without him.

Had Wilkinson and Norris not augered in over successive seasons one or the other might have created their own...but no. The turnover made continuity almost impossible, so I think the idea that the club actively trashed Parsons' legacy (which is how it came across) is a trifle harsh.

Other than that...yeah, CB, RW/FW...definitely needs.

PTFC Dave's avatar

Okay, all of us stans are jonesing for Thorns news, but there are plenty of reasons why we might not have heard anything yet.

1. As kielbj pointed out, the transfer window in Europe is open until the end of the month.

2. That might not even matter much, since players can transfer OUT of teams anytime; it's only incoming player registrations that are subject to a league's window. IIRC the NWSL window extends beyond the start of the season.

3. If we sign a Europe-based player who wants to keep playing there until, say, a month before our season, it WOULDN'T be announced, to avoid spoiling her relations with her current team.

4. The Thorns might well want to wait until just before the season to announce major signings, as a means of drumming up interest at a time when it matters to casual fans who might then decide to buy tickets. For all we know, the Thorns have acquired Girma, Banda, and Bonmatí, and just haven't said so.

5. Agoos is new so it's expected that he'll take some time to spin up. Fingers crossed that he's good at his GMing; we don't have any evidence one way or the other yet.

6. There are still plenty of free agents and foreign players, some quite good, who we can potentially sign.

7. Although it's unsettling to see other teams stocking up while the Thorns are mostly silent, we do have two international slots and should have a decent amount of cap space to spend. I can wait to see what Agoos will do with those.

[...ok no we haven't signed any of Girma, Banda, or Bonmatí....]

kielbj's avatar

It's not just that the Euro window is still open until the end of the month, it's that the *NWSL* transfer window doesn't actually even OPEN until January 28th. In other words, the ITC for any players transferred into the league cannot be finalized until then. That's why I pointed out that there have been very few actual announced transfers from Euro teams (Dufour, Kennedy, Koyama, and MacIver). So, it makes sense that deals that are in progress will not be announced until the ITC can actually be finalized and the player can join their team.

But yeah, the biggest thing is that Agoos and Co have only been on the job for two weeks. Transfers take time. I would bet there will be adds before the season (and he's said as much both times we've heard him speak), but they might very well come later than impatient fans want.

kielbj's avatar

Alanna Kennedy to ACFC, for whoever was terrified she’d end up here

Jacob Stevens's avatar

I was terrified, if for no other reason than because I can’t tell her apart from Macca

PTFC Dave's avatar

Didn't realize Kennedy is a journeywoman. She's been with 10 different clubs, or 13 if you count her 4 stints at Sydney FC separately.

I suspect this happens a lot for top-level Aussies, since they come up through Aussie clubs and then move back and forth between Europe, North America, and Australia. Raso, as another example, has been with 9 (or 11) clubs.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

*Yaaawwnnn* did we sign Girma yet?

FDChief's avatar

Sounds like Girma doesn’t want out so much as she wants to go TO, Europe generally and the WSL specifically. I hope we at least bid…but the Magic 8-Ball says “reply hazy”…

ABell4's avatar

Nicole Barnhart retired after this past season and now joins the Spirit technical staff as an assistant GK coach. Pretty cool. Would be awesome if we could give that assistant coach position that we have available to Becky! If she wanted it, of course. Just think she'd be an amazing add for any team because of the culture she would create.

https://x.com/WashSpirit/status/1880270901016748313

FDChief's avatar

Always hard to know how good a coach a good player will be. Barnie was a solid keeper. As a coach? Could be peaches…

Same with Sauerbrunn. Fine player, and I think we’d be nuts not to offer her a job…but where? I’d suggest she starts at the Academy. From there, if she does well, then to an AC gig w the senior team. Who knows…maybe she’s the gaffer here five years from now.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

And that’s how we sign Girma

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Prediction: Agoos is motivated to notch a big early win, and figures out a way to sign Girma. But it will mean making some sacrifices.

El Jefe's avatar

One would think he would be motivated to make a big signing. In truth, I'm betting he was brought in to play "money ball" rather than Pep Ball. Thus the analytics folks. I foresee a bunch of "value" picks are coming our way rather than big names. Less fun for us.

kielbj's avatar

“Analytics = cheap” hasn’t been an accurate way to describe the role data plays in sports since, well, the Billy Beane A’s.

All analytics means is that the club is using data to evaluate players and their fit in the ecosystem. If that data suggests leads that a big money player is the best fit, that’s what it suggests. Just look at the signings Bay made last summer.

FDChief's avatar

I think another aspect of the "Billy Beane's A's" thing is that is that baseball is 1) more "structured" than soccer in terms of play (so the stats are more useful as predictive measures because they reflect individual play better), and 2) has a deep historic well of metric analyses - James/SABR goes back to the Seventies - that can help predict a player's ability to, say, step up from AA or AAA to the Show.

Not perfect, obviously. But I suspect it's a LOT more difficult to, say, look at a youngish centerback playing for a lower division side in Portugal and infer her ability to succeed here or in the FBL, say. The context differences are murder; one of the reasons the big EU clubs try and bring young players in through their academy systems is to give apples-to-apples measures of evaluation.

I'm glad the Thorns finally have some data analysts. But I'm not expecting crazy awesome moneyball signings. I don't think soccer can work that way. But every little edge DOES help...

ABell4's avatar

Preseason officially starts today.

KC the only team I’ve seen so far that’s starting today.

In other news…SD have a German incoming.

kielbj's avatar

Remember two days ago when I brought up Gia Corley?

ABell4's avatar

Was just coming back here to say “sorry kielbj” lol.

SD making good decisions for quality young players.

kielbj's avatar

Like the player, really not sure *why in the world* they’re signing another player whose best position is winger. I suppose maybe they’ll try to play her at striker or attacking midfield

ABell4's avatar

Lol right they do have Sanchez and Cascarino who won't be on the bench anytime soon. Though, I haven't seen her play so I offer no opinion.

All the signings they've made this offseason has been for high-level young players.

kielbj's avatar

Yeah I mean they’ve brought in some decent kids, but I wouldn’t say any of them really change my outlook on the team overall. Still no starting striker and they literally have only Savannah McKaskill in midfield.

They have a TON of roster spots though, so expect we’ll see a few big adds going forward.

SactoRick's avatar

Retaining my dictum that any team fielding an offense built around McKaskill is angling for a failed season.

ABell4's avatar

Well, same. They've just brought in 2 of the top signings of the college class, as well as a Nigerian up-and-comer and now Corley. So a good young group of attackers, and seemingly a high-ceiling defender. It doesn't necessarily improve their starting XI, but it does improve their depth. McCaskill still holding on there is really funny to me.

They should have a good deal of $$$ to work with after retirements and outgoing players.

Jacob Stevens's avatar

Am I the only one who thinks Haracic to San Diego is a little… weird?

Thornando's avatar

Goes back to being Sheridan's backup and doesn't have to leave SoCal. She's a surfer.

kielbj's avatar

She lost her job to Anderson and there aren't any open jobs....so I figure it's be a backup in LA or be a backup in SD. Or maybe Sheridan is next out the SD door, who knows.

Stefan's avatar

that IS weird. Sheridan looking to transfer, perhaps? Seems strange Haracic would sign to be Sheridan's backup again (like she was at Gotham).

Beckenbauer's avatar

North Carolins is knocking it out of the park. Also though SD lost Shaw they have added a strong youth group. Houston has made some good moves. Kansas City got stronger. But yeah we have definetly sharted our pants if not a staight up solid one.

Thornando's avatar

Have we jumped the shart?

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Jan 21, 2025
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Beckenbauer's avatar

somehow waiting until the end of the european window, most of the top college talent and roster worthy nwsl vets are all signed seems a bit too patient for me. Picking up others cast offs should not be a viable OP for this club.

kielbj's avatar

A few things:

- The NWSL transfer window doesn't actually officially open until January 28th. Do you know how many Euro signings have been made so far across the entire league? TWO!

- The Thorns signed arguably the best U-20 striker in the entire country literally a week ago and are rumored to be signing another high level college player.

- The Thorns signed the either the first or second best FA CB on the market over a month ago.

- The Thorns signed another CB over a month ago who everyone just decided sucks because a random twitter user said so.

- There are over 40 free agents still on the market.

- The Thorns have a brand new front office that have been on the job for two weeks. They don't care about our impatience, and they also aren't going to tell us about stuff that's in the works until it comes to pass.

So, in short, none of the things you're complaining about are actually true. If you don't like the moves when they happen (or, and I'd be shocked if this is the case, don't happen), complain then! Until then, it's just a bunch of pointless moping about nothing. We all want to see new players, but I just don't understand the point of all the complaining until we see who is brought in.

Constant Weeder's avatar

Well, we have to mope about something, but they don't give us anything, so we have to mope about nothing. Being a fan is very hard.

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Jan 21, 2025
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Beckenbauer's avatar

While others have gotten better and been aggressive we are stuck in neutral with a very suspect CB situation. very good young player who barely played last year (injury?) and another injury risk with some upside but is very iffy and a squad player that is on their third team in 2 years? Having a strong CB pairing might be important. Not to mention still no RW and questions at the 8. And that is just the roster issues leaving the 800 pound Galerilla not even talked about. Ya, I think sharting seems a reasonable analysis.

ABell4's avatar

Abby Smith traded to Houston. To be another #2/3, I guess.

In other news that I missed that is LOL: KC signed college player Mary Long, yes, daughter of the owners of KC. I've seen a bit of play of hers with Duke (didn't turn my head really), so I'm guessing this signing doesn't happen without her parents, um, owning a club lol.

DavidK's avatar

I dunno...I also watch Formula One, so any nepotism in football seems weaksauce in comparison. I mean, when you have a billionaire not just buying an F1 team but becoming part owner of the ENTIRE CAR COMPANY itself (Aston Martin) in order to put his dubiously-qualified kid in one of the race seats, setting aside a footy roster spot barely registers.

FDChief's avatar

The Sahlens said to say hi!

Thornando's avatar

we all know how that turned out.

ABell4's avatar

Yeah thought of the Flash first lol

kielbj's avatar

Not as bad as the Timbers signing Phil's kid tbf. At least Long plays for the baby Nats lol

PTFC Dave's avatar

Harvey Neville (Phil's kid) played for the Ireland U-19s so he must have some level of talent. But there are definitely questions when you sign for two successive teams your dad coaches.

ABell4's avatar

Does she? Man she was really not that great to me when I watched Duke...granted it was maybe only 5 of their games.

kielbj's avatar

I mean at that age most of the kids that play for the U-17s don't ever amount to anything so you're probably right. It's mostly just the elite prospects that go on to be good pros and those are usually pretty easy to notice.

kielbj's avatar

Yeah this is getting some real momentum. Looks like there’s a real chance it happens, if not now, then in the summer.

https://x.com/emilyskeogh/status/1879835108053832080

Thornando's avatar

If it's getting this much traction, I'd say it's moving toward likelihood. Which sucks on many levels, but it absolutely makes sense for her development. If Hayes thinks she's already the best defender she's ever seen, then how does she continue to develop? New challenges.

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Jan 16, 2025Edited
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Thornando's avatar

Fun fact: Sauerbruun is, by far and away, the most capped UWSNTer never to score. That includes keepers like Scurry and Solo.

FDChief's avatar

At one time the U.S. women’s game was dominated by the NCAA/USWNT style, all based around workrate and relentless running. So playing in Europe DID help teach technical skills. The example that springs to my mind is Heath, whose thing was ball trickery and touch, who went to PSG for that…plus the payday! Remember how chintzy NWSL 1.0 was!

Now? Not so much, I think. It’s more for the lulz of a foreign excursion.

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Jan 17, 2025
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FDChief's avatar

Mmmmyeah...fourth in a five-team league ain't exactly a huge reputation boost...

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Jan 17, 2025
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ag167's avatar

and has been more or less comically bad

ABell4's avatar

I think Horan, Macario, and Albert aren't great examples, only because Horan and Albert play in a non-league and Macario has been mostly injured. I know Horan balls for Lyon, but she has been pretty bad at times for the USWNT. Albert has been at PSG since college so there's no point of comparison except to say, sure she's better than she was in college.

I would say that a player going to a top club in the WSL probably *will* improve though...just by virtue of training constantly with some of the best players in the world, and then playing matches with and against top players also. Chelsea is basically all international level players on a team. Even in the NWSL, maybe Gotham is the only team close enough to offering that competition within the team just because how our league is structured. And also, the coaching she will get there (if we're comparing Portland, for instance) is much better. For top level players my guess is, developing is very high, if not at the top of their reasons for being at a given club. Because they usually can take their pick. There are of course intangibles, like family and partners or liking where you live, that can shift or delay things....but that's very individual.

kielbj's avatar

Here's the thing though:

1. There are MORE high level players in the NWSL than the WSL --especially in attacking positions-- and I don't even think that's debatable! Go through the rosters! It's not close! The whole bottom half of the league might be favorites for the spoon in the NWSL.

2. I'd also say that there are MORE high level coaches in the NWSL! I'd take Amoros, Hines, Jona, and probably even Vlatko over literally any WSL manager now that Hayes is gone. Hell, Eidevall was a relatively successful Arsenal manager for the last few years. What manager(s) are you looking at in the WSL that makes you think there's superior coaching?

3. The NWSL is developing team-specific facilities --some teams already have-- and the WSL owners (prem owners, in other words) couldn't give less of a shit about their women's sides.

So, is there value in playing in a different league? Sure! Is it because the WSL has better players or coaching? I think the answer is *unquestionably* no. It's literally all media-driven narratives.

DavidK's avatar

On your point 1: I wasn't kidding in another post when I speculated that Tokyo Verdy Menina, the Beleza U17 Academy team, could find themselves realistically competing for a (distant) second or third in LaLigaF or Première Ligue Féminine. Sure, they're an astonishingly good team for high school age kids, but that's also a matter of those leagues having no real depth.

Agree w/ your other points, too...

ag167's avatar

p sure the facilities at Cobham are far superior than what San Diego and other NWSL teams like Angel City have. Same goes for Colney, the Eithad campus.

Arsenal are building a separate building and gym for the women's team, the academy is a central part of Hale End. Is that true of every team in the WSL? No, because you have guys like Ratcliffe, but a lot of the established WSL teams now have facilities that are actually built for them.

kielbj's avatar

They might have re-done them in the last few years under Boehly, but the Cobham facilities the women use are/were reportedly pretty dreadful- There was a huge uproar a few years back about how the women's facilities were in substandard condition and how the players were being forced to come in at off-hours to use the men's facilities.

Good to know Arsenal is building a separate one. I don't doubt that even the worst of the shared facilities are better than what some NWSL teams (especially SD) use, but I do think the standard is generally still pretty poor.

ABell4's avatar

I just meant on a single roster. Of course the NWSL is more competitive overall...but it's a way more more spread out amongst the teams. In WSL, it's highly concentrated amongst the top clubs. So there's more intrasquad competition at Chelsea...which does help a player improve. She will always be the best CB on her team in the NWSL and would never have to fight for a position, ever. That may even be the case at Chelsea, but she certainly has more competition for starts. And she's just training against only national team level players. It's just a function of our league being capped. Maybe it's not a huge difference for her...but who knows? There's also been a lot of change and volatility amongst teams in the NWSL in recent years. Chelsea, as far as I know from the outside, has been relatively stable and the leadership (even with Emma leaving) has remained. It's just not that hard to see why she'd wanna leave SD.

And yes, there are more high level coaches in the NWSL, I also agree. I never said the WSL had better coaching? Again, it's because the dropoff from top to bottom isn't severe like it is in the WSL. But that doesn't really matter...I'm talking about her going to Chelsea, where she *will* have a good coach. She's not going to Aston Villa lol. Maybe Bompastor isn't Hayes, I don't watch enough Chelsea to know, but they're at the top of the WSL table! Pretty good! Was this move prompted before they hired Jonas? When Landon Donovan was interim? When they had no coach? We just don't know.

I'm not comparing the overall leagues here so much as just the top teams in the WSL, where she's rumored to be heading. There are of course payoffs for staying in the NWSL...facilities, as mentioned. Same for attendance levels. Proximity to family.

Anyways, who doesn't wanna live in London? It's a cool city!

kielbj's avatar

My issue isn't with the idea that she wants to play abroad, it's with the idea that even the top of the WSL is better than the top of the NWSL. I don't think Chelsea would comfortably win the NWSL. I don't think their roster is substantially better than KC's, Gotham's, Orlando's, or Washington's. I don't think any of Chelsea's CBs are challenging her for spots. I'd also say that the value of intrasquad competition --especially when you're at the level Girma is-- has minimal value compared to the actual level of competition in the league.

So: more power to her if she wants to leave SD and go to the WSL, but I do think it's important to be clear that neither the talent level nor the coaching --even at Chelsea-- is substantially higher (again, Eidevall gets a lot of shit nowadays, but he was a pretty good manager for most of his time at Arsenal), and I think it's even more important that the move is not presented as a step up for her, because it's really not.

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Jan 17, 2025
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SactoRick's avatar

Found it interesting Macario never openly displayed strong interest in NWSL, jetted straight for OL, and has never looked back across the pond. Maybe NWSL circa 2021 could not offer what she wanted but if so, does the 2025 edition correct anything?

Is she a media star there? At a certain level commercial endorsements exceed sports salaries for elite players, and I wonder how that aspect is working for her.

Thornando's avatar

Horan has improved in how much Europeans respect her game. =) She jumped to #6 on the Guardian's Top 100 Female Footballers list in 2024.

Has Fox improved playing for Arsenal? Don't know. I've always been sold on her.

DavidK's avatar

True...but in terms of her actual game, Horan has pretty clearly declined, imo...and that's less a matter of time marching on than it is the lack of competitive match play. In Europe, only the FAWSL combines any real depth with genuinely world-class play, with the Frauenbundesliga being probably the next-best. France and Spain? One- or two-team leagues (although those top teams are some of the world's very best). Some of the smaller countries have fairly deep first divisions, but the overall quality of play isn't that high (that is, competitive, but no team that would be anywhere near competing against teams like Barca, Lyon, Chelsea, etc.).

The three genuinely deep and genuinely top-level 1st division leagues are the NWSL, the WE League, and the FAWSL.

ag167's avatar

Horan's had knee tape for like 3 years, of course it's physical

Thornando's avatar

She's very efficient in her movement, but in the same way LeBron James is. It's all straight line running now, and that has to be because of the knee. In LeBron's, it's because he's gotten old and stiff, but if he can run straight at you and go over you he's still a monster.

Beckenbauer's avatar

this is like salt in the wound as we sit here adrift in the sea of tranquility

kielbj's avatar

There’s no salt in the wound at all, a rival is losing their best player and she’s not going to be stay in the league. Pretty ideal situation as a rival fan.

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Jan 16, 2025
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kielbj's avatar

I agree with that in principle as a fan of the league, but it’s undoubtedly a major win from a pure Thorns fan perspective

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Jan 16, 2025
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ag167's avatar

Buchanan also hasn’t worked at all with Bright, Girma and Bright make more sense as a partnership.