There were three key passes in getting the ball to Smith for the score - from Girma to Coffey, then to Swanson, then to Smith, then into goal. All these passes were perfectly executed on both ends, sent with accurate aim and weight as well as received under control and without a significant bounce. Everyone did their part and did it skillfully and quickly. It was a beautiful sequence.
I agree and would only add that those passes were all made so decisively, which with the accuracy of the passes involved (particularly on Mal's extraordinary assist) is the sort of play that wins matches like that.
I've been sitting on this take all tournament, but I think it's time to release it into the wild: One of the big reasons why Soph is thriving (in her own words!) is because she's getting used virtually identically to how the Thorns use her: centrally, in behind, and with the freedom to rotate into pretty much any position on the front line. Even the formation --which has played as a 4-2-4 at times because of how high Horan has been playing-- is eerily similar to how the Thorns play, in both the good and the bad ways.
Obviously, this is the USWNT so the talent level is at a much higher level and the burden is distributed more evenly....but it looks very much like the Thorns stylistically in that they rely on balls in behind to their playmakers, don't play through the midfield very much, and allow their attackers the freedom to rotate to hunt matchups. You know what the US pass map against Germany looks a hell of a lot like? The Thorns when Weaver was healthy: https://ibb.co/48rFxF4
I've definitely thought this myself recently but didn't really look into it further lol. Funny to see some evidence for that. I even thought Norris Thorns were running parallel to the Vlatko-era USWNT as well, with overplaying the olds and just overall incohesive mess with a clueless coach at the helm.
So if we wanna copy some of Emma's homework and recreate a cohesive attack here, Weaver provides the Rodman width and motor, and then we need to find a Swanson-type to fill in on the RW and interchange with Soph. And then we basically just have to get a Girma lol (and a Fox would be nice), or at least try to solidify that backline so that it can work lol. The way the US plays with 3 in the back and oftentimes 4 up front is so dependant on Girma being the literal best CB in the world and Fox being world-class as well. Thorns should watch and take notes on where to strengthen lol...(heading to fbref to look at "players most similar to Mallory Swanson" lol.)
This is also funny to think about the Thorns mirroring this because it works for the USWNT to not play much through the midfield where possible because it’s easily the weakest line in the team, whereas with Portland, I’d say we have the most high caliber talent in our midfield and so it’s kinda funny (and frustrating honestly) to not utilize them.
So, what you're saying is that we need to trade for Swanson, Rodman, and Girma, convince Fox to return to the States, and bring back Dunn but put her at LB where she is most effective. =)
Yes exactly. The best present for Sam and Soph returning will be a refreshed and amped up Weaver. Add Linnehan and an increasingly dangerous but not lethal Janine and the Thorns will be pretty good.
I think Fleming is going to comeback with her confidence restored.
I think that's true, but I also notice that she's been really effective playing in a manner that probably doesn't work here. We don't need her to cover 80% of the field, for example, as that would render other Thorns less effective and less impactful. But she did just that for Canada when she was most effective and impactful. So, that's one of the areas of concern I have for integration or reintegration into the Thorns.
I think this is partially true, but she was very much Canada Fleming in the last Thorns match she played against SD, and it worked wonderfully. That's kinda why I've been preaching (and she's spoken about this as well) that adaptation and confidence --both to the league and her own team-- are the biggest challenges for her in her first season. It seems counterintuitive, but it can be really difficult to learn how to play with other supremely talented players effectively and figure out your what your role is, especially with the constant change we've had all season. As her teammates say constantly, she's an incredibly smart player. She and the coaches should be able to work it out.
That's one of the things that is often true of bringing together collections of elite players -- they need time to gel because they've never had to fit in and find their way and place among similarily-skilled players, indeed figure out how to elevate each other. That's been an incredibly pleasant, and somewhat exceptional, surprise with this USWNT group, so hats off to Emma, as it's no mean feat.
Hey Phuoc, I'm curious if you've heard anything recently about summer signings...it seems like a month ago or so (or maybe more?) that you mentioned we'd likely be getting 2-3 more players beyond the Arnold pickup....still kind of a lethargic summer window for us so far, with little movement in either direction. Do you have any recent or updated news? Anything coming soon?
I've been wondering if the FO is waiting until after the Olympic break to announce anything. It would help re-focus attention on the Thorns after everyone watches the games in Paris.
Just finished some massive Thorns fan survey and hope I helped y'all out by declaring I want more expensive food and beer choices, more games on Tuesdays, less fan engagement, the entire Team Canada shipped to PDX, management included, home kits sporting a Tide box color scheme, break dancing at halftime (2nd option, calf roping), and matches broadcast across a minimum of six streaming services.
Yeah I did that survey too, and said the main thing that would improve this fan's experience would be to have a team that could win silverware again. It feels like the top teams have passed us by in player acquisition and maybe also in tactics. The NWSL is diverging, with a handful of teams really reaching for the top, others taking a nosedive, and a mid-section (us included) still operating in NWSL 2.0. Let's get back on the horse.
My only regret about Spain losing the bronze medal game was that the players will be that much more motivated come World Cup 2027. Otherwise-- they've won enough lately, let someone else in.
I think this might have been the last major international competition for several USWNTers, as this is how old they will be come 2027:
Lavelle (32), Horan (33), Sonnett (33), Williams (34), Dunn (35), Krueger (36), Naeher (39)
OTOH, a lot of current field players will be in their mid-to-late 20s and Murphy (31) and Campbell (32) should still be in their primes. With all the talent in the pipeline, the future looks pretty bright.
As a coda for Naher, this tournament sparkles. Hope Solo may have sucked all the oxygen out of the room but Alissa became our ninja keeper for the ages, with arguably fewer physical advantages. She was magnificent.
A little bit more Seattle pile-on: Angelina, who Harvey kept pinned to the bench while in Seattle, is now captaining Brazil in a gold medal match and is one of the best midfielders in the league lol
Hahaha, I said this to my partner during the game yesterday. Thought it was insane that she still wasn't given the start to fill in the Lavelle-sized hole when she was injured for most of their season, especially when their midfield had no players to progress the ball and it was a glaring issue. Also thought they were stupid to let Luany go without giving her any proper shot. She's looked really fun in the small amount I've seen her. Keep it up Seattle!
I know she has a reputation and that some of her Reign teams have done very well. Aside from roster building, though, I'm not clear what it's based on. A conversation about this would maybe be enlightening.
She won three straight titles with Arsenal over a decade ago and back to back shields with the Reign in the early NWSL years. She's been fine at building sturdy teams when the talent's there and elevated a few less-than-great rosters recently, but no, she's never been any kind of creative tactical mind.
I also think she won back when the NWSL (and women’s football in general) was pretty different than it is now. Her tactics are so stale and inflexible and predictable and I think LH in 2024 is not cut out for it. Her defense-first play worked against the relatively mediocre attacking talent that existed in this league until pretty recently, but now the attacking talent in the league has really taken off…and now her defensive tactics that maybe worked 5 years ago are just recycled crap. And now, her lack of attacking nous has been exposed as well because she can’t rely on what used to work. She hasn’t shown any sort of flexibility or at least willingness to try much different. Don’t know how long she’s just gonna keep trying to shove a square peg into a round hole and expect something different.
I should acknowledge there’s an obvious talent deficit on the team that will make any coach have to get creative, but I haven’t even seen her make good/obvious coaching decisions with the players she does have so I don’t feel that bad. I think Seb Hines and Sean Nahas have both done a whole lot with pretty deficient rosters without a lot of high-end talent (though both teams have made a lot of great signings recently that will move them further along.)
This is how I feel, frankly. This is presented as admirable because people like Hayes and because she's winning.....but there are some very real negatives to this approach and I'm not sure it should be lionized.
Oh I'm in agreement that it's a little sociopathic lol. Not in favor of the "sacrifice to benefit the all" approach. Real humans involved and there's already a mismatch of player load vs resources that we see in the women's game and it's already destroyed the careers of many women who've very publicly said that a mismanagement of workload was a huge factor. Are there people who actually think this is a good thing? Most of the team is also midseason for club (who pay their wages, btw) and will be expected to contribute post-Olympics.
Well yeah I agree the author is obv pushing that narrative. I can't see many folks agreeing with this very old school mentality. Probably Carli Lloyd lol.
If USWNT players sustain injuries or major burnout post-Olympics, this will def be a point of reference to return to...
It seems like the article lacks the key context that soccer is not marathon running - It's a team effort and you're not trying to beat a number. Yes you have to be tough, but specifically you have to be tougher than your direct opponent. Make one more run, find one more gear for one more second. You don't need to outrun the bear, just the bait.
The article makes it sound like suffering for its own sake. But I bet Hayes' real point is "we suffer together, you are not alone, once this is over nobody will ever take away the bond we built based on what we could do together." Psychology more than physiology. I have to hope that gets moderated by actual performance data, since they can pinpoint where the limits truly are with a pretty high degree of specificity. Nobody should be pushed past those limits - it's not a death match.
"Nobody should be pushed past those limits - it's not a death match."
Funny thing is that these knockout matches sure come close to it!
-You play 90 minutes, often with lots of extra time.
- If no one has lost, you play another 30 minutes, often with more extra time.
- If no one has lost yet, your keeper gets to face one-at-time firing squad attempts, hoping not to lose.
And perhaps do that after having played 5 matches in the preceding 14 days, moving sites between matches, being away from home, in front of a worldwide viewing audience, while representing your country.
No pressure.
If that's not running a marathon followed by playing Russian Roulette to establish a loser, I don't know what is!
Yeah, exactly this. There's definitely benefit to learning how to push past your own perceived limits and learning through experience what you didn't realize you were capable of, and the psychological aspect is valuable for high-level athletes in a really condensed tournament...but I think that can also be done in tandem with the insight from performance data and not ingraining damaging and outdated ideology about sacrificing yourself for your team to such an extent. Doesn't have to be one or the other...
There is unquestionably something, psychologically, to suffering for sufferings sake simply in that overcoming adversity helps you be better. And yeah, I'd imagine the mental is more Hayes' point than "you have to run yourself into the ground in order to know what it's like to win."
The problem is that you can't really dissociate the psychological and the physiological when you're playing over 300 minutes of soccer in the same week. At some point, there becomes a reasonable chance that your body just breaks down and the mental no longer matters OR that the effort you put in over the course of a few weeks causes issues down the line. What if that line is Saturday in the 100th minute and someone gets injured? As you say: They're not ultra-marathoners. There's a reason why a club team would NEVER EVER EVER push their players like this!
So ultimately The "rah rah we're a team let's suffer together cause it'll make us better" is great when you're winning, have a gold medal in sight, and don't need to worry about anything that happens after Saturday....but that doesn't mean it's an inherently good way to approach things. Frankly, it's also not entirely Hayes' fault: The Olympic schedule is absolutely absurd.
Glad to see Sophia and Michael getting engaged. She can easily develop over here and she’s proving it. Just hoping he stays with Phoenix long term and the NWSL does not expand to there or Denver :)
Soph's a sharp cookie, and if a yob like me has noticed that the old truism "go to Europe to hone your technical skills and footy IQ" doesn't really seem to work in real life (o hai, Lindsey), you can bet she has, too. I think she'll stay, at least as long as we can be in the ballpark in terms of salary. If we can't and she leaves, you can bet that the reason given publicly will be some form of the above Euro-stroking...but we'll know better.
But honestly, you don't improve by slaughtering horribly overmatched teams in 7-0 blowouts. A half-dozen truly competitive league matches (FAWSL) or maybe just TWO (Serie A Women, LaLigaF, D1 Féminine) plus however far you get in the Champions League can't match a league in which the top of the table is under at least some degree of threat from the wooden spoon leader (NWSL, WE League). Not in terms of making you a better player.
Great composure from Soph, and a burst of speed that was hard to believe at that point. Great through ball from Swanson and hockey assist from Sam. Altogether a very team goal and a very cohesive game.
Can't wait to see the final. Although I guess I can wait for the players to get a tiny bit of rest.
That was maybe my biggest takeaway: Soph digging deep for that sprint with legs that just HAD to feel like limp pasta. So much for the clowns that have bleated that "this team has no heart."
The gold medal game's likely to be rough. Brazil play a physical brand of football and both teams are going to be dealing with fatigue. US defenders are going to have to do their best to avoid early yellows.
A classic Soph quote, re: her reaction to scoring, as reported by Yahoo: "Then (Smith) simply fell to the ground, because: 'F***, we still have to play so much longer.'"
I love and revere Julie Foudy, but I can't believe how wrong she got it today.
Besides repeating her absolutely-correct but already-stated health-and-safety criticism of how the women's tournament was scheduled, she kept hammering a "the US have tired legs/Brazil have fresh legs" and "Hayes needs to make a change" narrative.
However, it was clear in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half that the US had begun putting consistent pressure on Brazil's backline and that it was probably only a matter of time (indeed the 57th minute) until one or the other member of Triple Espresso found the back of the net.
Contra Foudy, (1) the US forwards are in phenomenal condition and connection with each other and (2) it was actually Brazil who were thin (due to knocks), tiring, and not making needed adjustments (i.e., in defensive formation).
I mean the US --while fully deserving Gold overall-- very much got away with one today. Brazil clearly came out hard, were fit enough to press high the entire first half, and and really should have scored- They did rotate much more (both today and throughout the tournament) despite their injuries, and looked fresher pretty much all match, even if their threat level went down after Ludmila got subbed and they began to tired a little.
Hayes has done a fantastic job in a very short time, but this wasn't some tactical mastermind. I think the goal rightly stood but it was very, very close, and one of only 2-3 real chances all match: They were mostly outplayed all over the field outside of the stretch just after the Swanson goal --https://x.com/nwslstat/status/1822331986813329639 -- Sometimes that's just how tournament soccer goes, and I'm glad they won!
I'm happy to see this gold, too...but yeah: the team is still not where it should be defensively, lack of concessions notwithstanding. They're still relying on defensive hero ball too much: last-second bits of brilliancy by people like Girma and Dunn and on Naeher making highlight reel saves. They're NOT succeeding defensively largely on the basis of disciplined defense that keeps its shape and makes the right decisions early. If Japan wasn't in a bit of a finishing funk, the US would have been out in the QFs...they allowed the Nadeshiko lots of chances. Germany has some good ones too, and Brazil were clearly better in the first half of the Final. Still work to do.
No one involved with the team seems to think it's a finished product at this point. Without being specific, they all talk about how much better the team can be. I would say that:
* Horan has not figured out how to contribute best.
* Relatedly, midfield integration needs work.
* As you say, the defense has lots of room for improvement.
* The Triple Espresso needs to be more efficient in the box.
* The keeper pipeline needs more attention; Naeher won't play like this forever.
* Likewise, the full roster needs to be gelled, so that subs don't risk a breakdown.
This was essentially a (self-inflicted?) emergency situation. In the coming tournaments we'll get a much better picture of what a fully developed Hayes USWNT will look like, hopefully culminating at WWC 2027. And then maintaining that level for years.
Maybe I'm just too attuned to my own sense of rhythm, but it was clear to me before Swanson's goal -- 5100 miles away and on streaming telly -- that it was only a matter of time; the momentum had shifted and the US were knocking on the door. I even said it aloud within 1 minute of it happening, "they're gonna score here." My point, though, is that Foudy was stuck on her narrative and wasn't really seeing what was unfolding.
I mean yeah, the threat is ALWAYS there with that front line, but it felt --to me, at least-- that the goal kinda came out of nowhere. Brazil still had almost all of the ball in the second half up until the goal....which is why they really needed to capitalize on that first half. Good on ya for sensing it cause I definitely didn't feel great lol. It did feel like the US should have gotten a second in the ten minutes after, however.
(and I thought Foudy was mostly dreadful all tournament, fwiw. Great player, commentating ain't her thing)
There were three key passes in getting the ball to Smith for the score - from Girma to Coffey, then to Swanson, then to Smith, then into goal. All these passes were perfectly executed on both ends, sent with accurate aim and weight as well as received under control and without a significant bounce. Everyone did their part and did it skillfully and quickly. It was a beautiful sequence.
I agree and would only add that those passes were all made so decisively, which with the accuracy of the passes involved (particularly on Mal's extraordinary assist) is the sort of play that wins matches like that.
I've been sitting on this take all tournament, but I think it's time to release it into the wild: One of the big reasons why Soph is thriving (in her own words!) is because she's getting used virtually identically to how the Thorns use her: centrally, in behind, and with the freedom to rotate into pretty much any position on the front line. Even the formation --which has played as a 4-2-4 at times because of how high Horan has been playing-- is eerily similar to how the Thorns play, in both the good and the bad ways.
Obviously, this is the USWNT so the talent level is at a much higher level and the burden is distributed more evenly....but it looks very much like the Thorns stylistically in that they rely on balls in behind to their playmakers, don't play through the midfield very much, and allow their attackers the freedom to rotate to hunt matchups. You know what the US pass map against Germany looks a hell of a lot like? The Thorns when Weaver was healthy: https://ibb.co/48rFxF4
I've definitely thought this myself recently but didn't really look into it further lol. Funny to see some evidence for that. I even thought Norris Thorns were running parallel to the Vlatko-era USWNT as well, with overplaying the olds and just overall incohesive mess with a clueless coach at the helm.
So if we wanna copy some of Emma's homework and recreate a cohesive attack here, Weaver provides the Rodman width and motor, and then we need to find a Swanson-type to fill in on the RW and interchange with Soph. And then we basically just have to get a Girma lol (and a Fox would be nice), or at least try to solidify that backline so that it can work lol. The way the US plays with 3 in the back and oftentimes 4 up front is so dependant on Girma being the literal best CB in the world and Fox being world-class as well. Thorns should watch and take notes on where to strengthen lol...(heading to fbref to look at "players most similar to Mallory Swanson" lol.)
Wow - thank you for your comments and astute observations- fascinating!
This is also funny to think about the Thorns mirroring this because it works for the USWNT to not play much through the midfield where possible because it’s easily the weakest line in the team, whereas with Portland, I’d say we have the most high caliber talent in our midfield and so it’s kinda funny (and frustrating honestly) to not utilize them.
So, what you're saying is that we need to trade for Swanson, Rodman, and Girma, convince Fox to return to the States, and bring back Dunn but put her at LB where she is most effective. =)
I mean you're joking, but yeah pretty much! Get some more good players!
Joking, but that's basically what the KCs and Gothams of the league are trying to do - upgrade and stockpile.
Yes exactly. The best present for Sam and Soph returning will be a refreshed and amped up Weaver. Add Linnehan and an increasingly dangerous but not lethal Janine and the Thorns will be pretty good.
I think Fleming is going to comeback with her confidence restored.
I think that's true, but I also notice that she's been really effective playing in a manner that probably doesn't work here. We don't need her to cover 80% of the field, for example, as that would render other Thorns less effective and less impactful. But she did just that for Canada when she was most effective and impactful. So, that's one of the areas of concern I have for integration or reintegration into the Thorns.
I think this is partially true, but she was very much Canada Fleming in the last Thorns match she played against SD, and it worked wonderfully. That's kinda why I've been preaching (and she's spoken about this as well) that adaptation and confidence --both to the league and her own team-- are the biggest challenges for her in her first season. It seems counterintuitive, but it can be really difficult to learn how to play with other supremely talented players effectively and figure out your what your role is, especially with the constant change we've had all season. As her teammates say constantly, she's an incredibly smart player. She and the coaches should be able to work it out.
That's one of the things that is often true of bringing together collections of elite players -- they need time to gel because they've never had to fit in and find their way and place among similarily-skilled players, indeed figure out how to elevate each other. That's been an incredibly pleasant, and somewhat exceptional, surprise with this USWNT group, so hats off to Emma, as it's no mean feat.
And Twila too, who got this process started and then shepherded it.
Hey Phuoc, I'm curious if you've heard anything recently about summer signings...it seems like a month ago or so (or maybe more?) that you mentioned we'd likely be getting 2-3 more players beyond the Arnold pickup....still kind of a lethargic summer window for us so far, with little movement in either direction. Do you have any recent or updated news? Anything coming soon?
I've been wondering if the FO is waiting until after the Olympic break to announce anything. It would help re-focus attention on the Thorns after everyone watches the games in Paris.
I envy your ability to believe the Thorns' front office is that shrewd.
Kling being named to NWSL best XI shall be my summer's gift,
Well earned.
Just finished some massive Thorns fan survey and hope I helped y'all out by declaring I want more expensive food and beer choices, more games on Tuesdays, less fan engagement, the entire Team Canada shipped to PDX, management included, home kits sporting a Tide box color scheme, break dancing at halftime (2nd option, calf roping), and matches broadcast across a minimum of six streaming services.
Yeah I did that survey too, and said the main thing that would improve this fan's experience would be to have a team that could win silverware again. It feels like the top teams have passed us by in player acquisition and maybe also in tactics. The NWSL is diverging, with a handful of teams really reaching for the top, others taking a nosedive, and a mid-section (us included) still operating in NWSL 2.0. Let's get back on the horse.
I asked for a mascot. I'm thinking a tater tot or a teddy bear.
Ooh, nice. Or how about a Keen sandal in tie dye, or a rainbow Leatherman?
Sonny Subaru?
Siouxsie Subaru, thank you.
Siouxsie Subaru and the Bandashees?
If we got Banda, I would be okay with that. I might even wear eyeliner to the matches.
Honestly, happy for Germany that they took home the Bronze. Spain, back to the drawing board with you.
Don't really want to see Marta cry again tomorrow, but LFG USWNT!
My only regret about Spain losing the bronze medal game was that the players will be that much more motivated come World Cup 2027. Otherwise-- they've won enough lately, let someone else in.
Cry in the beginning so you can cry at the end too?
Go USA!
Marta is crying either way. Last games are emotional. Would prefer the gold :)
We've been in the wilderness quite long enough. Time to reclaim the throne.
I think this might have been the last major international competition for several USWNTers, as this is how old they will be come 2027:
Lavelle (32), Horan (33), Sonnett (33), Williams (34), Dunn (35), Krueger (36), Naeher (39)
OTOH, a lot of current field players will be in their mid-to-late 20s and Murphy (31) and Campbell (32) should still be in their primes. With all the talent in the pipeline, the future looks pretty bright.
As a coda for Naher, this tournament sparkles. Hope Solo may have sucked all the oxygen out of the room but Alissa became our ninja keeper for the ages, with arguably fewer physical advantages. She was magnificent.
Presser was hard to find. Lindsey getting emotional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZeh4qkXyEU
Love Lindsey's shout-out to Tobin, who helped her survive PSG and Paris 2019 and thrive in the Peak Thorns era.
Does the moderator with the French accent realize that "Oran" is the setting for Camus's "The Plague"?
(shows self out)
"I 'ad a fvckin' blast."
Heh.
This is a gem. Thank you for finding it. Love Emma's energy.
A lot more here about Mal than Soph, but not surprising as he's currently Mal's coach and has known her her whole life. A fun read.
https://www.allforxi.com/2024/8/9/24216474/lorne-donaldson-talks-about-coaching-sophia-smith-and-mal-swanson-in-their-youth
Happy Birthday, Soph! You go, Sam! And congrats to the seeming dozens of ex-Thorns on the USWNT!
A little bit more Seattle pile-on: Angelina, who Harvey kept pinned to the bench while in Seattle, is now captaining Brazil in a gold medal match and is one of the best midfielders in the league lol
Hahaha, I said this to my partner during the game yesterday. Thought it was insane that she still wasn't given the start to fill in the Lavelle-sized hole when she was injured for most of their season, especially when their midfield had no players to progress the ball and it was a glaring issue. Also thought they were stupid to let Luany go without giving her any proper shot. She's looked really fun in the small amount I've seen her. Keep it up Seattle!
If they keep adding older players, I suggest a renaming to Seattle Pylon FC.
Is Harvey a good coach? Was Harvey a good coach?
I know she has a reputation and that some of her Reign teams have done very well. Aside from roster building, though, I'm not clear what it's based on. A conversation about this would maybe be enlightening.
She won three straight titles with Arsenal over a decade ago and back to back shields with the Reign in the early NWSL years. She's been fine at building sturdy teams when the talent's there and elevated a few less-than-great rosters recently, but no, she's never been any kind of creative tactical mind.
I also think she won back when the NWSL (and women’s football in general) was pretty different than it is now. Her tactics are so stale and inflexible and predictable and I think LH in 2024 is not cut out for it. Her defense-first play worked against the relatively mediocre attacking talent that existed in this league until pretty recently, but now the attacking talent in the league has really taken off…and now her defensive tactics that maybe worked 5 years ago are just recycled crap. And now, her lack of attacking nous has been exposed as well because she can’t rely on what used to work. She hasn’t shown any sort of flexibility or at least willingness to try much different. Don’t know how long she’s just gonna keep trying to shove a square peg into a round hole and expect something different.
I should acknowledge there’s an obvious talent deficit on the team that will make any coach have to get creative, but I haven’t even seen her make good/obvious coaching decisions with the players she does have so I don’t feel that bad. I think Seb Hines and Sean Nahas have both done a whole lot with pretty deficient rosters without a lot of high-end talent (though both teams have made a lot of great signings recently that will move them further along.)
Re: the "suffer" comment (ft. pain caves!) from Hayes...
https://sports.yahoo.com/i-want-them-to-suffer-how-emma-hayes-an-ultramarathoner-and-pain-caves-inspired-uswnt-to-olympic-final-234452624.html
https://x.com/_Zeets/status/1821550448295186873
This is how I feel, frankly. This is presented as admirable because people like Hayes and because she's winning.....but there are some very real negatives to this approach and I'm not sure it should be lionized.
Oh I'm in agreement that it's a little sociopathic lol. Not in favor of the "sacrifice to benefit the all" approach. Real humans involved and there's already a mismatch of player load vs resources that we see in the women's game and it's already destroyed the careers of many women who've very publicly said that a mismanagement of workload was a huge factor. Are there people who actually think this is a good thing? Most of the team is also midseason for club (who pay their wages, btw) and will be expected to contribute post-Olympics.
I think the Yahoo article is fetishizing the "suffering so they can be great" a little too much, yes.
Well yeah I agree the author is obv pushing that narrative. I can't see many folks agreeing with this very old school mentality. Probably Carli Lloyd lol.
If USWNT players sustain injuries or major burnout post-Olympics, this will def be a point of reference to return to...
It seems like the article lacks the key context that soccer is not marathon running - It's a team effort and you're not trying to beat a number. Yes you have to be tough, but specifically you have to be tougher than your direct opponent. Make one more run, find one more gear for one more second. You don't need to outrun the bear, just the bait.
The article makes it sound like suffering for its own sake. But I bet Hayes' real point is "we suffer together, you are not alone, once this is over nobody will ever take away the bond we built based on what we could do together." Psychology more than physiology. I have to hope that gets moderated by actual performance data, since they can pinpoint where the limits truly are with a pretty high degree of specificity. Nobody should be pushed past those limits - it's not a death match.
"Nobody should be pushed past those limits - it's not a death match."
Funny thing is that these knockout matches sure come close to it!
-You play 90 minutes, often with lots of extra time.
- If no one has lost, you play another 30 minutes, often with more extra time.
- If no one has lost yet, your keeper gets to face one-at-time firing squad attempts, hoping not to lose.
And perhaps do that after having played 5 matches in the preceding 14 days, moving sites between matches, being away from home, in front of a worldwide viewing audience, while representing your country.
No pressure.
If that's not running a marathon followed by playing Russian Roulette to establish a loser, I don't know what is!
Now... how do we change that?
Yeah, exactly this. There's definitely benefit to learning how to push past your own perceived limits and learning through experience what you didn't realize you were capable of, and the psychological aspect is valuable for high-level athletes in a really condensed tournament...but I think that can also be done in tandem with the insight from performance data and not ingraining damaging and outdated ideology about sacrificing yourself for your team to such an extent. Doesn't have to be one or the other...
There is unquestionably something, psychologically, to suffering for sufferings sake simply in that overcoming adversity helps you be better. And yeah, I'd imagine the mental is more Hayes' point than "you have to run yourself into the ground in order to know what it's like to win."
The problem is that you can't really dissociate the psychological and the physiological when you're playing over 300 minutes of soccer in the same week. At some point, there becomes a reasonable chance that your body just breaks down and the mental no longer matters OR that the effort you put in over the course of a few weeks causes issues down the line. What if that line is Saturday in the 100th minute and someone gets injured? As you say: They're not ultra-marathoners. There's a reason why a club team would NEVER EVER EVER push their players like this!
So ultimately The "rah rah we're a team let's suffer together cause it'll make us better" is great when you're winning, have a gold medal in sight, and don't need to worry about anything that happens after Saturday....but that doesn't mean it's an inherently good way to approach things. Frankly, it's also not entirely Hayes' fault: The Olympic schedule is absolutely absurd.
Eye-opener of an article. Hayes is really something.
Lord, compare and contrast vs. Ellis.
Glad to see Sophia and Michael getting engaged. She can easily develop over here and she’s proving it. Just hoping he stays with Phoenix long term and the NWSL does not expand to there or Denver :)
Soph's a sharp cookie, and if a yob like me has noticed that the old truism "go to Europe to hone your technical skills and footy IQ" doesn't really seem to work in real life (o hai, Lindsey), you can bet she has, too. I think she'll stay, at least as long as we can be in the ballpark in terms of salary. If we can't and she leaves, you can bet that the reason given publicly will be some form of the above Euro-stroking...but we'll know better.
But honestly, you don't improve by slaughtering horribly overmatched teams in 7-0 blowouts. A half-dozen truly competitive league matches (FAWSL) or maybe just TWO (Serie A Women, LaLigaF, D1 Féminine) plus however far you get in the Champions League can't match a league in which the top of the table is under at least some degree of threat from the wooden spoon leader (NWSL, WE League). Not in terms of making you a better player.
The future of Team USA looks very bright:
https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_594,h_334,x_0,y_40/c_fill,w_1080,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FvoltaxMediaLibrary%2Fmmsport%2Fsi%2F01j4s20h70b3zktj7z2x.jpg
The Triple Espresso. I'd guess that's Paris in the background.
Three Amigolazos.
Yeah I'm old. (Edit. no the in the movie title.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzZ7UGZETxo
Only Strikers in the Building
Great composure from Soph, and a burst of speed that was hard to believe at that point. Great through ball from Swanson and hockey assist from Sam. Altogether a very team goal and a very cohesive game.
Can't wait to see the final. Although I guess I can wait for the players to get a tiny bit of rest.
That was maybe my biggest takeaway: Soph digging deep for that sprint with legs that just HAD to feel like limp pasta. So much for the clowns that have bleated that "this team has no heart."
The gold medal game's likely to be rough. Brazil play a physical brand of football and both teams are going to be dealing with fatigue. US defenders are going to have to do their best to avoid early yellows.
Soph is on record that after the goal she was too tired to celebrate.
A classic Soph quote, re: her reaction to scoring, as reported by Yahoo: "Then (Smith) simply fell to the ground, because: 'F***, we still have to play so much longer.'"
I love and revere Julie Foudy, but I can't believe how wrong she got it today.
Besides repeating her absolutely-correct but already-stated health-and-safety criticism of how the women's tournament was scheduled, she kept hammering a "the US have tired legs/Brazil have fresh legs" and "Hayes needs to make a change" narrative.
However, it was clear in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half that the US had begun putting consistent pressure on Brazil's backline and that it was probably only a matter of time (indeed the 57th minute) until one or the other member of Triple Espresso found the back of the net.
Contra Foudy, (1) the US forwards are in phenomenal condition and connection with each other and (2) it was actually Brazil who were thin (due to knocks), tiring, and not making needed adjustments (i.e., in defensive formation).
Ah well. Even the greats get it wrong sometimes.
I mean the US --while fully deserving Gold overall-- very much got away with one today. Brazil clearly came out hard, were fit enough to press high the entire first half, and and really should have scored- They did rotate much more (both today and throughout the tournament) despite their injuries, and looked fresher pretty much all match, even if their threat level went down after Ludmila got subbed and they began to tired a little.
Hayes has done a fantastic job in a very short time, but this wasn't some tactical mastermind. I think the goal rightly stood but it was very, very close, and one of only 2-3 real chances all match: They were mostly outplayed all over the field outside of the stretch just after the Swanson goal --https://x.com/nwslstat/status/1822331986813329639 -- Sometimes that's just how tournament soccer goes, and I'm glad they won!
I'm happy to see this gold, too...but yeah: the team is still not where it should be defensively, lack of concessions notwithstanding. They're still relying on defensive hero ball too much: last-second bits of brilliancy by people like Girma and Dunn and on Naeher making highlight reel saves. They're NOT succeeding defensively largely on the basis of disciplined defense that keeps its shape and makes the right decisions early. If Japan wasn't in a bit of a finishing funk, the US would have been out in the QFs...they allowed the Nadeshiko lots of chances. Germany has some good ones too, and Brazil were clearly better in the first half of the Final. Still work to do.
No one involved with the team seems to think it's a finished product at this point. Without being specific, they all talk about how much better the team can be. I would say that:
* Horan has not figured out how to contribute best.
* Relatedly, midfield integration needs work.
* As you say, the defense has lots of room for improvement.
* The Triple Espresso needs to be more efficient in the box.
* The keeper pipeline needs more attention; Naeher won't play like this forever.
* Likewise, the full roster needs to be gelled, so that subs don't risk a breakdown.
This was essentially a (self-inflicted?) emergency situation. In the coming tournaments we'll get a much better picture of what a fully developed Hayes USWNT will look like, hopefully culminating at WWC 2027. And then maintaining that level for years.
Maybe I'm just too attuned to my own sense of rhythm, but it was clear to me before Swanson's goal -- 5100 miles away and on streaming telly -- that it was only a matter of time; the momentum had shifted and the US were knocking on the door. I even said it aloud within 1 minute of it happening, "they're gonna score here." My point, though, is that Foudy was stuck on her narrative and wasn't really seeing what was unfolding.
I mean yeah, the threat is ALWAYS there with that front line, but it felt --to me, at least-- that the goal kinda came out of nowhere. Brazil still had almost all of the ball in the second half up until the goal....which is why they really needed to capitalize on that first half. Good on ya for sensing it cause I definitely didn't feel great lol. It did feel like the US should have gotten a second in the ten minutes after, however.
(and I thought Foudy was mostly dreadful all tournament, fwiw. Great player, commentating ain't her thing)