I know it's pointless to talk about her contract, but MAN, if they could somehow lock Soph up......A U-26 core of Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, and Fleming to go along with Reyes and Obaze is about as good as it gets league wide.
If we had just fired him immediately after the season and hired Donaldson, I'd be feeling SO good right now, both about the team and Soph's future. And they might have, had the ownership change happened three months earlier.
As it is, I still feel much much MUCH better than I did this time yesterday, which is something. I don't know if it will work, but I like the Coffey-Fleming-Moultrie trio in the 4-3-3 Norris likes quite a bit better than Coffey-Sinc-Dunn. A lot more balanced.
12 returning players who are 27 or younger, and this does not include addition of Obaze, Fleming, and all of our draft picks and any NRI's who might make the squad. Fleming, at 25, is the oldest of the bunch.
Now just have Sinclair, Sauerbruun, Klingenberg, and Hubly ages 28 and over.
If it weren't for my concerns about the coach, this would be an exciting rebuild! Adding Fleming and Obaze to the core of Smith, Coffey, Weaver, Sugita, Moultre and Reyes gives the team a lot of quality youth to grow with. 2 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 forwards gives the team balance with the youth as well. The future could be very bright for the Thorns!
Fleming has worn 17 for Canada since before she graduated high school. Though I can't see her demanding it so I assume she will take one of the free numbers.
Um. What? Also poor Sam Hiatt? I thought the whole point of the expansion draft stuff was that she wanted to stay in Seattle. How does Gotham keep doing this lol
I assume Seattle is getting cash for more signings- Gallimore said they have two more planned. Still not entirely sure why they wasted resources to protect Hiatt and then traded her away for cash and a squad player.
Gotham's gonna be good! Hiatt's a real nice Krieger replacement in their only real position of need.
Last year this time I said KC was going to run the table. Williams healthy + Debinha and all the other talent they added to a team that made the final. Look how that worked out for them. This year it's Gotham doing the same thing and, on paper, already have the Shield. We will see how it plays out in real life.
KC spent a lot, but even at the time it felt reckless and they had bigg holes in their roster (crucially at CB) going into the year. Gotham have none. I thought KC would be good going into last year, but also had real questions about their lineup composition, their GM/coach dynamic, and defense.
I don't think Gotham will dominate necessarily, but they don't really have many holes. Most importantly, the roster build makes sense and they have a coach who is both good tactically and has a close relationship with the GM. Could take some time for the new pieces to gel, however- They changed a lot from a team that won a title.
It does seem like Gotham's biggest remaining weakness is goal. My game plan against them would call for shooting from distance (Smith has trouble reaching the upper 90) and long balls into space (Smith loves to come out for those and gets caught out more than any other keeper in the league). Betos is less reckless but has her own struggles guarding her post and getting down fast enough on daisycutters.
And they picked up Tierna Davidson already! Who I assume starts next to Maintane. Hiatt won't even start, unfortunately....So many other teams would give her a starting spot.
I don't remember if she played as a true lone 6, but she definitely played deeper at UCLA than for Canada....which is why I'm really excited to see her as an 8 in PDX.
I'd bet Moultrie (or Sinc, blech) will play the higher of the two 8s and Fleming will drop in where Rocky would sometimes play next to Coffey.
If we sign all our draft picks (not a certainty) we sit at 23 active players in a league that allows you 23-26 players. It will be interesting to who if anyone gets added. By the start of the season.
Rocky was a player and fan favorite. It will be sad to see her play against us. 275K seems like a lot of money for her though. The midfield was crowded with the addition of a 25 year old Fleming I wasn't surprised to see someone go.
The new owners seem to be willing to spend. We don't know what Katrina's vision is as they aren't talking to the public but I am ready to see how this group with Norris and Lowdon do on the artificial pitch this coming year. It would be nice to see non-canadians join this team but Fleming has a lot more upside than Leon or Beckie do. With McGrady a NRI at Bay City only Porter's fate from last year is unknown.
Why? She just acquired one of the 5 best players from Europe that would likely move to the NWSL and created a massive buzz in doing so. This might be the first thing she’s done to show she might be worth keeping long term
We also just paid Chelsea $317K in transfer fee for someone who was only playing 40 minutes a match and starting only 40% of the time for them, and to get her and make room for her we traded away a very good player. Something about eggs and omelets comes to mind... at least I hope.
It’s Chelsea. They’re at WORST the third or fourth best team in the entire world. Fleming’s recent lack of playing time in that midfield doesn’t reflect on her quality as a player, and is the only reason we even had a chance of acquiring her in the first place.
This isn’t like we’re gambling on some rando unproven prospect to replace Rocky- Anyone who’s watched Fleming consistently knows how good she is.
...which was EXACTLY my thinking about why it was a good idea for the Thorns to take that 2022 friendly against them seriously. Not often you get to test yourself against one of the top 4 clubs in the world, even if it's just their preseason.
And Chelsea is scrambling those eggs trying to replace Sam Kerr, signing Mayra Ramirez (club-record fee) and pursuing Lena Oberdorf, who will cost even more.
The transfer fee we paid was less than Horan and Menges (with about 25 to 30k left) when you consider the USD exchange rate.
I’m curious what they are buying with the Rodriguez money, because I don’t think they needed it. A RB comes to mind.
To be fair, Chelsea’s other players at her position look like world class players as well. How many minutes did Macario or Fishel play before Kerr’s injury? I’d be happy with either of them too
Coming out of UCLA, she was as highly regarded as Sophia for what it’s worth
I’d say Fleming was even more highly regarded than Soph. People forget Smith was the consolation (albeit an excellent one) once it became clear Macario was going to Europe. She was a clear number 1 pick, but she’s turned into something much greater than most would have expected.
I'm assuming by draft year, you're referring to if each player had finished a full four years of college. I was saying that had Macario or Fleming decided to enter the draft in 2020, both of them would have been drafted ahead of Soph. They both decided to go abroad (we always knew Fleming wasn't going to enter the draft, but there was some uncertainty about Cat), so Smith and Sanchez became the top prospects in the 2020 draft. Smith only entered the draft once the Thorns traded for the #1 pick.
That's my hope - that we're using the $$$ to shop for an RB.
Well, Macario didn't play because she's taken a long time to come back to form and fit. As for Fishel, that's fair.
I know that Fleming has long been regarded very highly. I'm not down on her or anything like that. We may actually have procured someone whom we couldn't get otherwise, precisely because she wasn't in Chelsea's plans.
Jessie Fleming is likely going to slot into the role that Rocky would have played, and Fleming is a younger, better player according to a number of sources. as for playing time, Rocky was injured early last year and was only coming back towards the end of the season.
It is disappointing to see Rocky go, but all in all this is a good move for both the team and her. It relieves a potential logjam in the midfield for the Thorns, and get Rocky a clear path to playing time with ACFC.
I think part of it was that Norris never really had a good fit for her; his midfield system (such as it was) never seemed to match her strengths. Plus he had to find minutes for Sinclair without shifting Dunn, so it was either Rocky or Moultrie that sat.
Just guessing - I have a hard time figuring how Mike Norris thinks...
The double pivot - which is often how Coffey would combine w Rodriguez when they were on together - is more defensive, so no surprise there. But Norris preferred Dunn, who is a fine defender but preferred to go forward. That combined w Norris’ fullbacks-up preference and Sinc’s glacial pace meant Coffey ended up trying to hold back the tide…
This is really the key point. Norris, given the choice, wants to play that classic 4-3-3. Rocky and Sinc aren't mobile enough to play that B2B 8 role and Dunn liked to attack too much, so it left Coffey all alone. Norris then went to the double pivot, which worked better...until it didn't. Kassouf reported that they had been shopping Rocky for a while, so it seems clear Norris didn't see her in his plans.
Fleming is a more mobile, younger player who theoretically should fit that 8 role better so long as her partner isn't Sinc. I still have major doubts about Norris' ability to make a pretty challenging system work, but we shall see!
Crystal Dunn had the speed and tenacity to press all over the field. Rocky brought a more physical nature to the game. I love Rocky, but she was a different type of defender. I thought Dunn was a lot
More important to our defensive structure than most seem to see right now
Both very good players, neither fit very well into the 4-3-3. Rocky didn’t have the mobility to cover the ground she needed to cover as an 8 and Dunn was always far up the field. Sinc being the other 8 hurt both of them.
Like I said, Fleming’s on paper fit next to Moultrie makes more sense, but I still have worries about defensive cover.
^This. Rocky gave our midfield steel that it was missing at times and was more defensive-minded than all our other good midfielders save Coffey. She's a good two-way player, not to mention a fan favorite, and we'll miss her.
I generally root for individual awards and poor performances against us. Weaver and Rodriguez have reminded me of people I adore to this day in my old age
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9TVkkJ_iP8
For those unacquainted.....Girl can play! (forward passes, specifically)
Feeding Sophia Smith > Feeding Sam Kerr
::)
I know it's pointless to talk about her contract, but MAN, if they could somehow lock Soph up......A U-26 core of Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, and Fleming to go along with Reyes and Obaze is about as good as it gets league wide.
If we can really get that attack humming, it's gonna be FUN (and maybe Soph just stays!) More so just worried that the driver is...Norris.
If we had just fired him immediately after the season and hired Donaldson, I'd be feeling SO good right now, both about the team and Soph's future. And they might have, had the ownership change happened three months earlier.
As it is, I still feel much much MUCH better than I did this time yesterday, which is something. I don't know if it will work, but I like the Coffey-Fleming-Moultrie trio in the 4-3-3 Norris likes quite a bit better than Coffey-Sinc-Dunn. A lot more balanced.
I had the same thought about our suddenly young "core" who are all about the same age. Don't forget Moultrie.
Right! Forgot her somehow. Edited
Sophia would be smiling in anticipation if watching this video!
Youth movement is afoot, for sure.
12 returning players who are 27 or younger, and this does not include addition of Obaze, Fleming, and all of our draft picks and any NRI's who might make the squad. Fleming, at 25, is the oldest of the bunch.
Now just have Sinclair, Sauerbruun, Klingenberg, and Hubly ages 28 and over.
That is a serious overhaul.
If it weren't for my concerns about the coach, this would be an exciting rebuild! Adding Fleming and Obaze to the core of Smith, Coffey, Weaver, Sugita, Moultre and Reyes gives the team a lot of quality youth to grow with. 2 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 forwards gives the team balance with the youth as well. The future could be very bright for the Thorns!
Now let's have some draftee signings and create some positional traffic jams.
But crucially, will she take over the magic #17 jersey - Heath's old number - from Coffey? That's the number she wears for both Canada and Chelsea.
Coffey should change to #6 anyways imo unless she has some special reason for choosing 17
Sam Coffey stays 17. She’s worn it since her days at BC and my guess is her jersey is probably one of the top ones in sales.
Fleming wore 21 in college
Fleming has worn 17 for Canada since before she graduated high school. Though I can't see her demanding it so I assume she will take one of the free numbers.
Personally, I think this would be more about the fans who have jerseys. I bought a 9, 17, and 22.
If the Jerseys are good this offseason, I imagine I will be picking up an 8 and one more number
Agreed. Was perhaps tricky giving her 17 to begin with and one can't dispossess her now.
https://x.com/TheDanLauletta/status/1749968121568403629?s=20
Um. What? Also poor Sam Hiatt? I thought the whole point of the expansion draft stuff was that she wanted to stay in Seattle. How does Gotham keep doing this lol
Wtf...Gotham needs to be stopped. Don't they have enough damn CB's? How are they getting all of these high quality players :((((
Gawd I would've looooved to find a way to end up with her. But Lester to...Seattle? Kay. Lol.
I assume Seattle is getting cash for more signings- Gallimore said they have two more planned. Still not entirely sure why they wasted resources to protect Hiatt and then traded her away for cash and a squad player.
Gotham's gonna be good! Hiatt's a real nice Krieger replacement in their only real position of need.
Last year this time I said KC was going to run the table. Williams healthy + Debinha and all the other talent they added to a team that made the final. Look how that worked out for them. This year it's Gotham doing the same thing and, on paper, already have the Shield. We will see how it plays out in real life.
KC spent a lot, but even at the time it felt reckless and they had bigg holes in their roster (crucially at CB) going into the year. Gotham have none. I thought KC would be good going into last year, but also had real questions about their lineup composition, their GM/coach dynamic, and defense.
I don't think Gotham will dominate necessarily, but they don't really have many holes. Most importantly, the roster build makes sense and they have a coach who is both good tactically and has a close relationship with the GM. Could take some time for the new pieces to gel, however- They changed a lot from a team that won a title.
Gotham is going to be good. Their midfield of Lavelle, Dunn, and Sonnett with Ryan as the primary backup is as good as any group in the league
I do wonder if they move Ryan back up to forward with Purce and Williams.
Their defense is solid with numbers. O’Hara is tied to the northeast, but she’d be a good get for the Thorns if she was available.
While Abby Smith has ability, i do think they are going to miss Mandy Haught.
It does seem like Gotham's biggest remaining weakness is goal. My game plan against them would call for shooting from distance (Smith has trouble reaching the upper 90) and long balls into space (Smith loves to come out for those and gets caught out more than any other keeper in the league). Betos is less reckless but has her own struggles guarding her post and getting down fast enough on daisycutters.
And they picked up Tierna Davidson already! Who I assume starts next to Maintane. Hiatt won't even start, unfortunately....So many other teams would give her a starting spot.
Damn you right, I guess they didn't even need her! That's a weird one!
Anyone else combing through everyone's preseason season rosters hoping to see Taylor Porter's name? Lol just me?
Unless we're signing someone else I'd take her over Gabby as a back-up back-up CDM tbh
True, I just hoped that it meant we'd HAVE to find a backup lol.
As an aside, but speaking of the 6...did Jessie play the 6 at UCLA? I saw it mentioned somewhere...
I don't remember if she played as a true lone 6, but she definitely played deeper at UCLA than for Canada....which is why I'm really excited to see her as an 8 in PDX.
I'd bet Moultrie (or Sinc, blech) will play the higher of the two 8s and Fleming will drop in where Rocky would sometimes play next to Coffey.
This puts us at
3 keepers - 1 on leave = 2 keepers
15 + Fleming field players = 16 field players
5 draft picks
If we sign all our draft picks (not a certainty) we sit at 23 active players in a league that allows you 23-26 players. It will be interesting to who if anyone gets added. By the start of the season.
Rocky was a player and fan favorite. It will be sad to see her play against us. 275K seems like a lot of money for her though. The midfield was crowded with the addition of a 25 year old Fleming I wasn't surprised to see someone go.
The new owners seem to be willing to spend. We don't know what Katrina's vision is as they aren't talking to the public but I am ready to see how this group with Norris and Lowdon do on the artificial pitch this coming year. It would be nice to see non-canadians join this team but Fleming has a lot more upside than Leon or Beckie do. With McGrady a NRI at Bay City only Porter's fate from last year is unknown.
KK HAS TO GO. I hope the new owners are reading these posts!!!!
Why? She just acquired one of the 5 best players from Europe that would likely move to the NWSL and created a massive buzz in doing so. This might be the first thing she’s done to show she might be worth keeping long term
We also just paid Chelsea $317K in transfer fee for someone who was only playing 40 minutes a match and starting only 40% of the time for them, and to get her and make room for her we traded away a very good player. Something about eggs and omelets comes to mind... at least I hope.
It’s Chelsea. They’re at WORST the third or fourth best team in the entire world. Fleming’s recent lack of playing time in that midfield doesn’t reflect on her quality as a player, and is the only reason we even had a chance of acquiring her in the first place.
This isn’t like we’re gambling on some rando unproven prospect to replace Rocky- Anyone who’s watched Fleming consistently knows how good she is.
...which was EXACTLY my thinking about why it was a good idea for the Thorns to take that 2022 friendly against them seriously. Not often you get to test yourself against one of the top 4 clubs in the world, even if it's just their preseason.
And Chelsea is scrambling those eggs trying to replace Sam Kerr, signing Mayra Ramirez (club-record fee) and pursuing Lena Oberdorf, who will cost even more.
Wonder what that's like?
Anyhoo, they need some Fleming cash is my guess.
The transfer fee we paid was less than Horan and Menges (with about 25 to 30k left) when you consider the USD exchange rate.
I’m curious what they are buying with the Rodriguez money, because I don’t think they needed it. A RB comes to mind.
To be fair, Chelsea’s other players at her position look like world class players as well. How many minutes did Macario or Fishel play before Kerr’s injury? I’d be happy with either of them too
Coming out of UCLA, she was as highly regarded as Sophia for what it’s worth
I’d say Fleming was even more highly regarded than Soph. People forget Smith was the consolation (albeit an excellent one) once it became clear Macario was going to Europe. She was a clear number 1 pick, but she’s turned into something much greater than most would have expected.
Fleming was a senior when Sophia was a sophomore and Macario was a junior.
Fleming and Castellanos were 1-2 in the 2020 draft
Macario and Sanchez were 1-2 in the 2021 draft
Sophia was the 1 in the 2022 draft
When Macario decided to go back and Fleming/Castellanos went overseas, both Sanchez and Smith came out early.
Smith was likely going to be rated similarly, but Fleming had the career
I'm assuming by draft year, you're referring to if each player had finished a full four years of college. I was saying that had Macario or Fleming decided to enter the draft in 2020, both of them would have been drafted ahead of Soph. They both decided to go abroad (we always knew Fleming wasn't going to enter the draft, but there was some uncertainty about Cat), so Smith and Sanchez became the top prospects in the 2020 draft. Smith only entered the draft once the Thorns traded for the #1 pick.
That's my hope - that we're using the $$$ to shop for an RB.
Well, Macario didn't play because she's taken a long time to come back to form and fit. As for Fishel, that's fair.
I know that Fleming has long been regarded very highly. I'm not down on her or anything like that. We may actually have procured someone whom we couldn't get otherwise, precisely because she wasn't in Chelsea's plans.
The tough thing is how do players adjust to the physical nature of the NWSL.
Endo was someone everyone was afraid was signing with ACFC and she’s been outplayed by Sugita.
Everyone was fearful of Sofia Jakobssen when she signed with San Diego and she’s struggled.
Others have become immediate MVP candidates
Could be a LB as well.
Maybe we bring in Sydney Nasello and Jaelene Daniels as NRI’s to remove all good will.
That would get KK fired, but this was an exciting move even though it has risks
she signed a new contract a year ago.
I don't get it. Can someone help me understand this trade? Or why Rocky's playing time dwindled last season?
Jessie Fleming is likely going to slot into the role that Rocky would have played, and Fleming is a younger, better player according to a number of sources. as for playing time, Rocky was injured early last year and was only coming back towards the end of the season.
It is disappointing to see Rocky go, but all in all this is a good move for both the team and her. It relieves a potential logjam in the midfield for the Thorns, and get Rocky a clear path to playing time with ACFC.
They acquired someone who will start over her in Jessie Fleming and likely need the allocation money to fill another hole (they have a big one at RB)
I think part of it was that Norris never really had a good fit for her; his midfield system (such as it was) never seemed to match her strengths. Plus he had to find minutes for Sinclair without shifting Dunn, so it was either Rocky or Moultrie that sat.
Just guessing - I have a hard time figuring how Mike Norris thinks...
There were matches last season where the midfield was getting overrun and when Rocky came in things would settle down (no disrespect to Sam).
I think Mike is very offensive focused but it can be to the detriment of having a midfield that can consistently stop attacks
The double pivot - which is often how Coffey would combine w Rodriguez when they were on together - is more defensive, so no surprise there. But Norris preferred Dunn, who is a fine defender but preferred to go forward. That combined w Norris’ fullbacks-up preference and Sinc’s glacial pace meant Coffey ended up trying to hold back the tide…
This is really the key point. Norris, given the choice, wants to play that classic 4-3-3. Rocky and Sinc aren't mobile enough to play that B2B 8 role and Dunn liked to attack too much, so it left Coffey all alone. Norris then went to the double pivot, which worked better...until it didn't. Kassouf reported that they had been shopping Rocky for a while, so it seems clear Norris didn't see her in his plans.
Fleming is a more mobile, younger player who theoretically should fit that 8 role better so long as her partner isn't Sinc. I still have major doubts about Norris' ability to make a pretty challenging system work, but we shall see!
Crystal Dunn had the speed and tenacity to press all over the field. Rocky brought a more physical nature to the game. I love Rocky, but she was a different type of defender. I thought Dunn was a lot
More important to our defensive structure than most seem to see right now
Both very good players, neither fit very well into the 4-3-3. Rocky didn’t have the mobility to cover the ground she needed to cover as an 8 and Dunn was always far up the field. Sinc being the other 8 hurt both of them.
Like I said, Fleming’s on paper fit next to Moultrie makes more sense, but I still have worries about defensive cover.
^This. Rocky gave our midfield steel that it was missing at times and was more defensive-minded than all our other good midfielders save Coffey. She's a good two-way player, not to mention a fan favorite, and we'll miss her.
I generally root for individual awards and poor performances against us. Weaver and Rodriguez have reminded me of people I adore to this day in my old age