Took some time to emotionally recover after being in the stadium (if I ever have to hear another “Angel City Cornerrrrr kick presented by Cedars Cinai” I might blow my brains out) for that absolute disgrace of a performance. A few points of reflection/projection on the season as a whole:
1. Credit to Angel City, and Tweed specifically: They were absolutely locked in from the jump, had clear pressing triggers, and have gotten elevated performances from players (most notably Hammond on Sunday) who I’ve never really rated. Vignola’s a terror and I’m stoked she’s getting a look with the Nats.
2. Been pounding this drum for a while, but this team needs to add some real B-level depth. It’s just impossible to play the same pressing style when the bench is so, so much less talented than the starters....especially when that style is designed around one of the best strikers in the world. I’d love to be able to play the same style regardless of personnel, but that’s not realistic with the drop off in talent.
3. Get a gd real coach. I just want someone with a system who can come in and impose their structure on the roster. I don’t even need to like it. Just someone with a tactical plan who knows how they want to play and can make it clear to the players. The one thing that’s been crystal clear to me is that the players don’t know how to execute when the opposition throws a wrench into Plan A. They get rattled way too easily for the experience and talent on the field at any given time, and that’s largely a coaching issue to me. I don’t know that Norris is any worse than 50% of the coaches in the league, but he’s shown himself to be nowhere near the top end.
4. I know she’s had a real rough year mentally, but Bella’s gotta go. Constant positional errors, lack of command, and dreadful distribution. Also, while less important than the positional stuff, this is a team that *wants to play out from the back.* They are the rare NWSL team that has the defenders to do it, but Bella absolutely panics every time the ball comes to her feet. Just try literally anyone else.
So.... on a higher level, I’m ready for this season to end. I want to see what the off-season looks like, get clarity on Dunn, see who the new owners are, and get out of the Norris/Sinc purgatory. Bring in some new blood. The team is mostly fine and we’re still in a better situation than 75% of the league. I just think that the players themselves need a little clarity on where the team is going, because the elephant in the room is that coaching issues aside, they fully checked out after Goal 2 on Sunday, and that’s just not acceptable.
In the meantime, can we try to win a few playoff games? Please?
Heh, I can do you one better: our boys' corners are sponsored by Atlas Disposal waste haulers and every corner is accompanied by the sound of a truck reverse warning beeper. Still pondering the hidden message.
All season I bitched about the keeper just wailing the ball well beyond center field and because it's USL there are no metrics, but SWAG it's possessed by the correct side maybe 40%, and instigates a high press attack <20%. High-risk/modest reward.
But the last match we attended featured a different keeper who distributed it directly from the back and the attack was utterly transformed from SOP, like a different team. Led to a win against a tough team, so I'm wondering what's the lesson going forward.
I was worried about this one because LA had so much to play for and the Thorns have shown this season that they lack focus and discipline under pressure. And so it went.
I don't get it with this group. How do you go from the 10-player win over Carolina through a sterile draw in D.C. to the loss in Louisville to the thumping win over Seattle to the appalling San Diego loss to the solid Gotham win to this vile mess?
It's not just form. It's going from a team that looks like a runaway Shield lock (Carolina, Seattle, Gotham) through meh (Washington) to a hot mess (Louisville, San Diego, LA)? It's like the group needs medication or something because if a person showed those kind of mood swings they'd be in a doctor's care.
I mean...we can talk about the technical problems we've seen all season, and the depressing desuetude of the former GOAT. But...what the hell? What can you do with a bunch like this? They're like John Travolta's cans with no labels; "Could be peaches, could be meatloaf!"
Well…I won’t pretend that if I’d been in the squad I might not have pretty much checked out after the fourth concession. The tactical mess alongside teammates just cratering or never in the match at all (sorry, Sinc, but…) and my coach has no answers? It’d be tempting to phone the last forty minutes in.
But it’s also hard to distinguish tactical chaos from jakin’ it. It’s possible that the squad WAS still trying…which kind of makes it worse, because they looked like a rec league side out there, not a defending champion.
The shield rewards consistent quality throughout the season. The 2023 Thorns have not had that, although the other teams have not been much better.
Coach Norris acknowledged that the game state deteriorated after the first fifteen minutes, but he did nothing effective to respond. When he did make a sub, it didn't improve the team on the field. Instead of taking Moultire off, he could have subbed Rodriguez for Sinclair and Moved Sugita higher up the field. That would have improved the team both offensively and defensively.
I agree that you can't blame the loss on one or two players, but I think you can put a good deal of the blame on poor coaching.
Anyway, it's over - time to look forward. Not time, however, to forget the lessons of this game.
As much on the coach as on the general manager... Our depth is abysmal. We really only have like a couple of reasonable subs in the midfield, one not-horrible horrible but not good sub at CB and goalie, and the rest of the roster is just a dumpster fire. I hope that the new ownership brings in somebody who knows what they are doing because the team leadership right now is pretty darn incompetent.
I'll be exceptionally sad if Sinc is part of the new ownership group/given a position with any major personnel decision-making role, or has any sway there. On the player-level, I think her input would be good. But, we need someone with a fresh perspective (and, experience) at GM. I think KK is fine if they give her a new role....let her do all her motivational speeches and schmoozing events, and get us an actual GM. And I agree, our depth is poor, and the writing has been on the wall with many of these players for several seasons now. GM has dropped the ball (or never had it) over the last couple seasons...
Where is all this talk of Sinc being part of the new ownership group coming from? I doubt she has that kind of money... She's been playing in a *super* salary-capped sport forever (mostly when players made zero), for Canada (who we know doesn't pay players much), and has had nowhere near the sponshorship deals that a player on the USWNT would command. The league has made it pretty explicit that they want the new ownership groups to be ~billionaire level families. Not sure where Since would fit into that.
I meant more so if she has a minority share (like Carli Lloyd does; who has a net worth of 2 mil to Sinc’s reported 10 mil), but because of her stature is given authority or sway to, say, keep KK around as GM. Or even Norris. Seems like a nice person, but they really need a fresh start with personnel. KK has already said in an interview with Sinc that the plan is for her to have a job when she retires. It was in a 10 min-or-so video that was filmed at PP with her and KK just after she agreed to another year after the championship last season. Sinc specifically says something about wanting a job there after she retires, and KK says something like “that’s the plan!” You can find it on their YouTube. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility for a retirement/“but she’s still gonna be here because…!” announcement to happen concurrently. I think she’s gonna be a part of this club, but I hope it’s not an immediate role where she then gets to decide which Canadian friends she wants to keep around.
She wouldn't have to be a majority owner or anything. She would merely have to be part of the group.
If the franchise sells for $65M and someone holds a 1% stake, that's $650K, and it's not like you have to put that up in cash.
That would be enough to be the person who represents the franchise at the Board of Governors, especially if the rest of the investors know relatively nothing about the NWSL, WoSo, soccer, etc.
Exactly, Carli Lloyd has a minority share in Gotham, and her net worth is only 2 mil. Sinc’s reported to be at 10 mil. I think she’d be great in certain FO roles, but I’m kinda over the Canadian nepotism happening already so I’d prefer a more neutral soccer brain (with reach beyond Canada) for some of those roles, like GM.
The more I think about this, the more I think you're right about the danger stagnation-by-nepotism.
Do we really think that Sinclair as the soccer-knowledgeable member of an ownership group would oust KK?
And, if that were unlikely to happen, do we think that KK would oust Norris?
That said, I'll be the first one to get Maple Leaf tats on the shoulders and chest if they can somehow figure out how to bring us Buchanan and Lawrence (who would solve so many defensive problems), Fleming (who gives us a young midfield running mate), and Sheridan (who is both a great shot stopper and distributor).
Yeah, the days of Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland "Fixin' up the old barn and puttin' on a musical to save the team" have left the building. It's now another bauble for tech bros and the like to accumulate on account of "what's it going to be worth in another five years!?!"
If Sinc comes in as "partner" it's for name, not her giant sacks of looneys.
This BTW is why I think the days of NCC, CRS, OP and HD are numbered, at least as presently organized.
This is a really interesting article to highlight some of the things that DID work (on offense.) According to this, the Thorns make the most of their shots/goals by high-pressing opponents, and scoring goals from those chances created. Particularly, look at the "Best Pressing Team" paragraph, which was given to the Thorns.
With Sinc up top, they simply can't do that....so, the best pressing team in the league cannot access its most potent weapon. Or, how it scores most of its goals. And it's especially apparent when Sinc is at the 9. She doesn't draw any defenders for either winger to operate better, either.
"According to Opta, the Thorns have scored seven goals via high turnovers -- defined as 'sequences that start in open play and begin 40 meters or less from the opposing goal.' That's three more goals than any of Portland's NWSL opponents.
The Thorns have also created more shots from high turnovers (53) than the rest of the league, all while picking their moments to press.
Portland allow 10.7 passes before intervening defensively. That figure paints them as one of the league's more frequent pressing teams, but still shows them as being more passive than a third of the league...."
Even with Betfort up top, they were able to carry out the same general plan to disrupt and capitalize. When I say Sinc is a big problem (not THEE problem), I mean that she really hinders how the Thorns score most of their goals. She simply can't do it, and the attack becomes impotent. Really, any quick player would do a better job. Add in the poor defensive tactics, poor GK-ing, and individual focus issues, and well, we get messes like we've seen.
I think once we lost Soph, the best thing we could do was look at Betfort, and decide what her best asset was....which to me, is she's a quick disruptor. She's great in a high press. She's not a great goal-scorer, so it had to be more of "score by committee", but again, with Sinc up top here and there, we couldn't at all execute what the team was statistically best at. And we had no outlet with her, so the ball was just shoved right back up our gut.
Another interesting article by Kassouf says, "Portland is the epitome of finding the right blend of styles. The Thorns are perennial contenders and are atop the table once again heading into the final weekend (like last year, when they let the NWSL Shield slip away with a fluky draw at Gotham). Portland can build through a talented midfield anchored by defensive midfielder Sam Coffey, who leads the league in assists, but the Thorns can also strike quickly through 2022 NWSL MVP Sophia Smith and strike partner Morgan Weaver."
Yeah, it's kinda all or nothing with a press. Every player has to do it collectively, or it can really backfire and create spacing issues if even one player isn't effective/capable. Especially because the Thorns are so reliant on the press, it's more of a disaster when they're unable to effectively do it. Norris doesn't have the experience or acumen to be flexible in his tactics with different players on the field, and instead mostly just tries to push the same tactics onto very differently profiled players. Soph, Sinc, Betfort....all require a different plan up top. Sinc requires a very different plan, one that I'm not really sure of....and I don't think we have the personnel to execute it if it actually exists.
Just finished tape review. I’ll post the match report here in a bit, but worth noting in view of the Kassouf piece that Coffey had an absolutely abysmal match.
Nobody outside Sugita was in strong positive figures, but Coffey was among the poorest of the starters. Sinclair-grade poor.
Hmmm. Could that be...that having a single pivot (whom has to drop into the back line almost next to our CB because the LB is getting too far forward but then nobody is filling into the central midfield) AND essentially has two 10's just couldn't be covered by one human person? Like, jeezus...look at this. Sam is just totally sent to slaughter by Norris because of his tactics. He literally couldn't have found a better way to make the best 6 in the league look so poor. I'm not sure Norris could've picked a worse game plan for this one....
This is straight up Vlako-level blindness and idiocy imo, that is repeated over and over and over....he seemed to have figured it out for like 2 matches, but then went back to the early season playbook of single pivot, 2 10's, and high FB's because he had no idea what to do. If I were Sam I'd be hoping for a media spotlight to be put on the coach, and hope to hell I get a new one next year. This shit will ruin a bubble player's shot at a national team career.
Coffey had next to no impact on the match, either good or ill. She wasn't being slaughtered; she was half a mile down the road from the killing floor picking grass and acting tame. Or something.
She had the exact same problem against San Diego; not bad, but invisible. Completely nerfed.
I don't disagree that the overall collapse is on Norris; you can delegate authority but not responsibility.
But there's something very wrong with Coffey as a player in two of the last three games and I sure wish I understood what.
I wonder if the angst of will she or won't she play for the nationals is playing on her. How many times do you have to be told you're not good enough to let it get to you. This game happening in yet another international break couldn't be helping that.
OTOH, if you want to make the national team you want to shine for your club. Disappearing in two of the three big end-of-season matches is unlikely to get you the attention of the federation...
I think Sam could watch the San Diego and this last game all day and not be able to fix what is going wrong for her performance. Teams with a Julie Ertz, Keira Walsh and Amadine Henry can go right up the middle. They are not booting the ball all the way up the field or trying to always take it down the sidelines. Her teammates in the back need to look for her. All five of them. When Soph is back the team's best player is in the middle and Sam needs to provide that service. In my opinion Sam wasn't getting killed defensively, she was on a deserted isle offensively, just out of the picture. Like Chief said just invisible.
Yep, it made no sense to start Sinc yesterday, let alone play her for 96 minutes. LA had a relatively inexperienced keeper and were looking right into the sun in the 1st half. That's a situation that has Betfort's name written all over it.
multiple times saw her look directly at Sinc waiting for the run and just stood there marked. The body language from weaver in those instances didn't seem to be very positive, almost a cmon' again lets go!
Yeah, I'd be super frustrated to get stuck with Sinc in a game that important. Weaver knew even before stepping on the field that she was gonna have to do things alone (and she couldn't)...she wasn't even particularly sharp herself. They are the mismatch of the century...
Assuming that it's already a done deal. This piece was clearly written by her representation, and it's placed in the form of a question at the end. But it wouldn't surprise me if it is a done deal, because Merritt still owns the team and KK is still the President of Soccer Ops.
Makes me think we're the bridge to what she does next -- either coaching strikers or maybe even playing for a time in the Canadian league.
Pretty sure Sinc just announced her retirement on Instagram. Just a short video of her boots hung up over a pole. No caption. Looks national team related though, with the Team Canada logo. Not sure about club…
Hahaha I saw those. And this headline from Ryan Clarke lmao…
It’s def for Canada, but she’s said in a previous interview (a while ago now, granted) that she wanted to play a season of just club after she retired for country. Hoping this doesn’t mean another full 90 in a semi-final. Give her her flowers, but Norris, please don’t F around because we’re gonna find out, if so lol.
What’s funny is that’s a US Army tradition that goes back at least to the 1960s; the soldier getting out the next morning threw a (usually pretty drunky) ETS party that included tying his field boots together and throwing them up on the power line wire outside the billets. So “boots hanging on the wire” was visual shorthand for “getting out”. Had no idea that was also a Canadian soccer thing…
Good write-up from the Chief, but the question lingers…what’s up with these guys?
It’s a roster dichotomy of young and fast with second generation skill, attitude and mentality versus old and slow with diminishing skill and first generation mentality. I don’t have to name names. The young uns want to play a certain way, the elders abhor change and will play the way they’ve always played. Norris has not been able to harmonize these two groups within the team. Not even paper over the differences.
Yeah I don't see it as old vs young either. The comments I hear from the younger players are all about how happy they are to learn from the likes of Sinclair, Sauerbrunn, etc.
But I do agree we need to get significantly younger and faster.
Coffey, Becky, Soph, Crystal, and Moutrie called up for this window.
I can't imagine Weaver wasn't dispirited going into that last game after getting snubbed...then imagine getting stuck next to a Sinc #9. She sure played like a distracted and defeated person. I'm guessing they found out just prior to that final game if they were called up, and I can't imagine doing all she does to still not get called in. Kinda shocked that Midge was called in over her....how many goals has she scored this year? Looking at that F pool, it's a hard one to break into for her, but there's no logical reason why she'd get passed over for Midge, specifically, who has never really stuck at the national level.
Anyways, I'm happy that 5 of our players get to flex their heads outside of the Norris bubble...it's great for Liv to start getting that higher level experience. It'll no doubt improve her club play to have a second coach in her ear. I'm excited to see her defending, in particular, improve...which I think should be a growth area for her if she keeps getting called in. Sam, gawd, I just hope they play her dammit! She's probably happy that she keeps getting called in, but it's gotta be confusing to constantly get 0 minutes.
In other news...Sinc still getting called into camp Canada. I can't imagine she's retiring anytime soon if they're still calling her in? I guess they aren't gonna just *stop* calling her in before an announcement is made since she's royalty. Unless something is announced in the next week, and those games become her retirement games...
Calling in Sinc while this club season is on is one thing, and I suspect it's her unofficial farewell with them. I would be surprised if they call her in after November.
Without a permanent manager I don’t know if these callups mean much of anything other than a look. I certainly wouldn’t read “USSF contract” into them. If the players show well? Great! Hopefully that’ll translate into another look once the head coach hire is completed.
That’s why I wouldn’t make too much of who did and didn’t get called up. I’m guessing the players aren’t; this is literally the very beginning of the next cycle to build up to the OG. New HC, huge rotation in the WNT…there’s going to be a massive revolving door to the Nats’ over the next year. If the next HC thinks Weaver fits into the system? She’ll get the call.
That said, I didn’t see Coffey or Moultrie playing a blinder, and they DID get the call. So I suspect Weaver’s troubles at BMO weren’t hurt feelings that Midge was getting Nat love and she wasn’t. I think she was still doing Weaver things (did you read my writeup? I had her at +9/-3; that’s not outstanding for an hour, but it’s not unrespectable) but with her squad cratering around her just couldn’t act the game-changer. It happens.
Agree on Coffey, Liv, and Weaver. A little surprised to see Sophia in the mix since she’s on pretty limited minutes as she recovers from her knee injury. I agree with Kielbj elsewhere in this stream that she could benefit from some game time; I just hope she takes it easy so we get to have her healthy for the semifinal game.
Usually I would be angry about the international break in the middle of the playoffs (and it IS really stupid), but Soph really, really needs minutes. I don’t really see how she plays 90 on the 5th without more game time.
And yeah... I get it’s mostly a positional/age thing, but Moultrie getting called up and Weaver not getting the call is a real weird one.
Yeah, I agree about Soph for sure. I just hope they don't push it. We don't need a Rose Lavelle situation on our hands. It'd be smart for our FO to schedule a game with a local team in the week-ish before the semis. I think the college season has started, but I'm sure there's several teams that'd jump at being able to play a scrimmage against the Thorns. 3 weeks is really no advantage, and, is actually a disadvantage imo.
It's def still gonna be hard to have that many of our starters gone this week and still expect to turn around the shitshow we saw last weekend. I think Hina has 3(!) friendlies with Japan (in Uzbekistan?) and the 3rd game is on the 1st. Even if she doesn't play much that 3rd game, she's gonna be exhausted. Her worst game of the season came after their last int'l match on short rest/travel.
I saw a quote about Moultrie from the coach about how she's been a USSF lifer and has gone through the whole youth system. That, unfortunately, weighs pretty heavily still in roster construction. Though, Moultrie is the type of calm possession-based midfielder (like Horan) that the USWNT needs to move towards if they wanna compete going forward...maybe they see that. Weaver is definitely further along, but Moultrie has a higher window (imo.) I do think Weaver should've gotten a chance to prove herself at that level though. She can still be rough on things like decision-making or easily revert back to run-real-fast-kick-real-hard Weaver, so I can see where hesitancy lies....but with how much she's been able to progress over the last 2 years, I think she should be given the opportunity, at the very least. She's shown real capacity for continuous growth, and I think she would do more for that team than Midge (which pains me bc I love her.) Also, I totally forgot she went out with an injury (knee?) Oof.
The Nadeshiko matches are not, if I'm remembering correctly, friendlies. They're Round 1 of the Asian Olympics qualifiers. Important matches, and I expect Hina to play...but probably not starter minutes, as Ikeda seems to favor Jun Endo in the position he plays them at. That does, however, mean that if she _does_ get a start (and potentially 90 minutes), most likely it would be in that third match on the 1st. =/
Hmmm...then again, with Endo playing today for LA (and, I assume, hopping right on a plane to report a bit late to camp), Ikeda might play Hina in the first match, then see how it goes for the rest of Round 1. Three matches total.
Yeah they definitely have more of a need in Moultrie’s position so it makes sense logically, but I think your point about the USSF lifer/reputation thing is really the reason why she’s there (not that she doesn’t deserve a look on merit, but still).
The fact that Purce is there over Weaver (I’m assuming the decision was made before her injury Sunday) is ridiculous. Weaver’s really toned down her out of control moments and channeled her chaos energy into real production. More than that, she’s *at worst* fourth in line for the league MVP. That should mean something! It’s not like she’s a 33 year old having a career year either.
Yeah, agree on both points. Kinda like with Thompson, I get why Liv is being called up....because their ceilings should be high and it's good to get them into the system early just to get them comfortable and get to know what the expectations for int'l level play is. They're very malleable. Do I think either are particularly ready for playing much in games...not really. They're both still not even starters at the club level, though they both should be. Weaver...I mean yeah you can't ignore the upward trajectory of the last two seasons. She's been mostly consistent, and has been scoring, assisting, and has a huge workrate on defense. I really don't get it.
I just saw that they’re playing Columbia and now I am really nervous to see Soph out there at all lol…one of the most needlessly fouling teams I’ve seen recently. A good test, but my gawd, I hope everyone comes out uninjured for playoffs…
It didn’t look serious she walked off. She looked troubled by it for a few minutes before she was shown sitting on the ground. The game was over at that point. Hina didn’t get the memo and was playing like the Thorns were still in it. The goal she scored could have kept AC out but Endo immediately scored to keep the margin four.
I hate that the Thorns lost but still impressed with the way AC played and found a way into the playoffs.
She wasn't herself in LA and now I can understand why. That wasn't a good performance by her standards or her fans. She is way better than that. Her stats this year attest to her improvement. Hopefully her injury is just a knock and in the next two games she goes out and shows them they made a mistake.
A stinker, yes, but a team stinker. Morgan wasn’t very good and she’s usually the best Thorn out there. I counted maybe three positive encounters from Sinclair in 96 minutes. Otherwise, jog over here, jog over there, like she was on a Sunday morning stroll. The defense was equally atrocious. Kuikka beat on two goals and beat on the cross that led to another goal. Kling beat on the back post. Hubly doing Hubly things.
Old and slow, old mentality and old tactics. I seriously doubt Norris is calling the shots, rather veterans are calling the shots for him. It makes no sense for the team to come out so passive, maybe even quit, for a big game against a SoCal rival.
Having watched WS-NCC highlights I now see how Rodman got the boot, and it's VAR that elevated it to red from yellow. Bad choice on her part.
IDK why NCC could only manage one goal playing XI v X but who had Tyler Lussi, scoring hero on their 2023 bingo cards? Agnostic on which team travels to PDX, each has their challenges and both are beatable. Since Good Janet Thorns are scheduled, let's move on to the final.
The shield would have been a great achievement. The team has talked all year about wanting to win both. But yesterday was also an opportunity to show that they've figured some things out and establish a little consistency in their performance, which, evidently, was too much to hope for. I almost wish this season they were either hot (which they had plenty of talent to be) or cold (which would have been somewhat understandable given the limbo the club is in). All the ups and downs this year have been brutal, and I can only imagine how much more so for the players. After this season, if they do somehow pull it out for the championship (big if), I still don't feel like that will be satisfying for the season.
Took some time to emotionally recover after being in the stadium (if I ever have to hear another “Angel City Cornerrrrr kick presented by Cedars Cinai” I might blow my brains out) for that absolute disgrace of a performance. A few points of reflection/projection on the season as a whole:
1. Credit to Angel City, and Tweed specifically: They were absolutely locked in from the jump, had clear pressing triggers, and have gotten elevated performances from players (most notably Hammond on Sunday) who I’ve never really rated. Vignola’s a terror and I’m stoked she’s getting a look with the Nats.
2. Been pounding this drum for a while, but this team needs to add some real B-level depth. It’s just impossible to play the same pressing style when the bench is so, so much less talented than the starters....especially when that style is designed around one of the best strikers in the world. I’d love to be able to play the same style regardless of personnel, but that’s not realistic with the drop off in talent.
3. Get a gd real coach. I just want someone with a system who can come in and impose their structure on the roster. I don’t even need to like it. Just someone with a tactical plan who knows how they want to play and can make it clear to the players. The one thing that’s been crystal clear to me is that the players don’t know how to execute when the opposition throws a wrench into Plan A. They get rattled way too easily for the experience and talent on the field at any given time, and that’s largely a coaching issue to me. I don’t know that Norris is any worse than 50% of the coaches in the league, but he’s shown himself to be nowhere near the top end.
4. I know she’s had a real rough year mentally, but Bella’s gotta go. Constant positional errors, lack of command, and dreadful distribution. Also, while less important than the positional stuff, this is a team that *wants to play out from the back.* They are the rare NWSL team that has the defenders to do it, but Bella absolutely panics every time the ball comes to her feet. Just try literally anyone else.
So.... on a higher level, I’m ready for this season to end. I want to see what the off-season looks like, get clarity on Dunn, see who the new owners are, and get out of the Norris/Sinc purgatory. Bring in some new blood. The team is mostly fine and we’re still in a better situation than 75% of the league. I just think that the players themselves need a little clarity on where the team is going, because the elephant in the room is that coaching issues aside, they fully checked out after Goal 2 on Sunday, and that’s just not acceptable.
In the meantime, can we try to win a few playoff games? Please?
Heh, I can do you one better: our boys' corners are sponsored by Atlas Disposal waste haulers and every corner is accompanied by the sound of a truck reverse warning beeper. Still pondering the hidden message.
All season I bitched about the keeper just wailing the ball well beyond center field and because it's USL there are no metrics, but SWAG it's possessed by the correct side maybe 40%, and instigates a high press attack <20%. High-risk/modest reward.
But the last match we attended featured a different keeper who distributed it directly from the back and the attack was utterly transformed from SOP, like a different team. Led to a win against a tough team, so I'm wondering what's the lesson going forward.
Really good summary of the whole situation, both the 30,000 foot view and the view of the game.
Well said!
Thorns Highlight: the final whistle.
Remember the final whistle that wasn't, and they had to keep playing? Nice metaphor for the entire shitshow.
Speaking of which, I've heard that in Japanese "shitshow" translates as "a show that is shit."
Seems apt here.
Yep: たわごとショー (tawagoto shō)
That WAS an extra special kick in the shorts, wasn't it?
Match report: https://rivetingpdx.com/2023/10/16/thorns-fc-horrid/
I was worried about this one because LA had so much to play for and the Thorns have shown this season that they lack focus and discipline under pressure. And so it went.
I don't get it with this group. How do you go from the 10-player win over Carolina through a sterile draw in D.C. to the loss in Louisville to the thumping win over Seattle to the appalling San Diego loss to the solid Gotham win to this vile mess?
It's not just form. It's going from a team that looks like a runaway Shield lock (Carolina, Seattle, Gotham) through meh (Washington) to a hot mess (Louisville, San Diego, LA)? It's like the group needs medication or something because if a person showed those kind of mood swings they'd be in a doctor's care.
I mean...we can talk about the technical problems we've seen all season, and the depressing desuetude of the former GOAT. But...what the hell? What can you do with a bunch like this? They're like John Travolta's cans with no labels; "Could be peaches, could be meatloaf!"
Yeah. I think there's a coaching and tactics issue but yesterday was also a problem of application, unfortunately. It honestly looked like they quit.
Well…I won’t pretend that if I’d been in the squad I might not have pretty much checked out after the fourth concession. The tactical mess alongside teammates just cratering or never in the match at all (sorry, Sinc, but…) and my coach has no answers? It’d be tempting to phone the last forty minutes in.
But it’s also hard to distinguish tactical chaos from jakin’ it. It’s possible that the squad WAS still trying…which kind of makes it worse, because they looked like a rec league side out there, not a defending champion.
Hard to say which would be worse…
tbf i would've checked out too but that's one reason (among many others) why i'm not a professional athlete
They are so hot and cold. They could either get a total smackdown during the semifinals, or run away with it. Who knows?
The shield rewards consistent quality throughout the season. The 2023 Thorns have not had that, although the other teams have not been much better.
Coach Norris acknowledged that the game state deteriorated after the first fifteen minutes, but he did nothing effective to respond. When he did make a sub, it didn't improve the team on the field. Instead of taking Moultire off, he could have subbed Rodriguez for Sinclair and Moved Sugita higher up the field. That would have improved the team both offensively and defensively.
I agree that you can't blame the loss on one or two players, but I think you can put a good deal of the blame on poor coaching.
Anyway, it's over - time to look forward. Not time, however, to forget the lessons of this game.
As much on the coach as on the general manager... Our depth is abysmal. We really only have like a couple of reasonable subs in the midfield, one not-horrible horrible but not good sub at CB and goalie, and the rest of the roster is just a dumpster fire. I hope that the new ownership brings in somebody who knows what they are doing because the team leadership right now is pretty darn incompetent.
I'll be exceptionally sad if Sinc is part of the new ownership group/given a position with any major personnel decision-making role, or has any sway there. On the player-level, I think her input would be good. But, we need someone with a fresh perspective (and, experience) at GM. I think KK is fine if they give her a new role....let her do all her motivational speeches and schmoozing events, and get us an actual GM. And I agree, our depth is poor, and the writing has been on the wall with many of these players for several seasons now. GM has dropped the ball (or never had it) over the last couple seasons...
Where is all this talk of Sinc being part of the new ownership group coming from? I doubt she has that kind of money... She's been playing in a *super* salary-capped sport forever (mostly when players made zero), for Canada (who we know doesn't pay players much), and has had nowhere near the sponshorship deals that a player on the USWNT would command. The league has made it pretty explicit that they want the new ownership groups to be ~billionaire level families. Not sure where Since would fit into that.
I meant more so if she has a minority share (like Carli Lloyd does; who has a net worth of 2 mil to Sinc’s reported 10 mil), but because of her stature is given authority or sway to, say, keep KK around as GM. Or even Norris. Seems like a nice person, but they really need a fresh start with personnel. KK has already said in an interview with Sinc that the plan is for her to have a job when she retires. It was in a 10 min-or-so video that was filmed at PP with her and KK just after she agreed to another year after the championship last season. Sinc specifically says something about wanting a job there after she retires, and KK says something like “that’s the plan!” You can find it on their YouTube. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility for a retirement/“but she’s still gonna be here because…!” announcement to happen concurrently. I think she’s gonna be a part of this club, but I hope it’s not an immediate role where she then gets to decide which Canadian friends she wants to keep around.
She wouldn't have to be a majority owner or anything. She would merely have to be part of the group.
If the franchise sells for $65M and someone holds a 1% stake, that's $650K, and it's not like you have to put that up in cash.
That would be enough to be the person who represents the franchise at the Board of Governors, especially if the rest of the investors know relatively nothing about the NWSL, WoSo, soccer, etc.
Exactly, Carli Lloyd has a minority share in Gotham, and her net worth is only 2 mil. Sinc’s reported to be at 10 mil. I think she’d be great in certain FO roles, but I’m kinda over the Canadian nepotism happening already so I’d prefer a more neutral soccer brain (with reach beyond Canada) for some of those roles, like GM.
The more I think about this, the more I think you're right about the danger stagnation-by-nepotism.
Do we really think that Sinclair as the soccer-knowledgeable member of an ownership group would oust KK?
And, if that were unlikely to happen, do we think that KK would oust Norris?
That said, I'll be the first one to get Maple Leaf tats on the shoulders and chest if they can somehow figure out how to bring us Buchanan and Lawrence (who would solve so many defensive problems), Fleming (who gives us a young midfield running mate), and Sheridan (who is both a great shot stopper and distributor).
Yeah, the days of Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland "Fixin' up the old barn and puttin' on a musical to save the team" have left the building. It's now another bauble for tech bros and the like to accumulate on account of "what's it going to be worth in another five years!?!"
If Sinc comes in as "partner" it's for name, not her giant sacks of looneys.
This BTW is why I think the days of NCC, CRS, OP and HD are numbered, at least as presently organized.
This is a really interesting article to highlight some of the things that DID work (on offense.) According to this, the Thorns make the most of their shots/goals by high-pressing opponents, and scoring goals from those chances created. Particularly, look at the "Best Pressing Team" paragraph, which was given to the Thorns.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38617590/nwsl-superlatives-data-numbers-analytics-best-worsts-2023-season
With Sinc up top, they simply can't do that....so, the best pressing team in the league cannot access its most potent weapon. Or, how it scores most of its goals. And it's especially apparent when Sinc is at the 9. She doesn't draw any defenders for either winger to operate better, either.
"According to Opta, the Thorns have scored seven goals via high turnovers -- defined as 'sequences that start in open play and begin 40 meters or less from the opposing goal.' That's three more goals than any of Portland's NWSL opponents.
The Thorns have also created more shots from high turnovers (53) than the rest of the league, all while picking their moments to press.
Portland allow 10.7 passes before intervening defensively. That figure paints them as one of the league's more frequent pressing teams, but still shows them as being more passive than a third of the league...."
Even with Betfort up top, they were able to carry out the same general plan to disrupt and capitalize. When I say Sinc is a big problem (not THEE problem), I mean that she really hinders how the Thorns score most of their goals. She simply can't do it, and the attack becomes impotent. Really, any quick player would do a better job. Add in the poor defensive tactics, poor GK-ing, and individual focus issues, and well, we get messes like we've seen.
I think once we lost Soph, the best thing we could do was look at Betfort, and decide what her best asset was....which to me, is she's a quick disruptor. She's great in a high press. She's not a great goal-scorer, so it had to be more of "score by committee", but again, with Sinc up top here and there, we couldn't at all execute what the team was statistically best at. And we had no outlet with her, so the ball was just shoved right back up our gut.
Another interesting article by Kassouf says, "Portland is the epitome of finding the right blend of styles. The Thorns are perennial contenders and are atop the table once again heading into the final weekend (like last year, when they let the NWSL Shield slip away with a fluky draw at Gotham). Portland can build through a talented midfield anchored by defensive midfielder Sam Coffey, who leads the league in assists, but the Thorns can also strike quickly through 2022 NWSL MVP Sophia Smith and strike partner Morgan Weaver."
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38635304/nwsl-uswnt-tactics-compete-wsl-ligaf-england-spain
Reading this just makes me upset for what happened yesterday.
Exactly, all the tools should have been at our disposal and we should have had an idea how to make use of them.
Yeah, it's kinda all or nothing with a press. Every player has to do it collectively, or it can really backfire and create spacing issues if even one player isn't effective/capable. Especially because the Thorns are so reliant on the press, it's more of a disaster when they're unable to effectively do it. Norris doesn't have the experience or acumen to be flexible in his tactics with different players on the field, and instead mostly just tries to push the same tactics onto very differently profiled players. Soph, Sinc, Betfort....all require a different plan up top. Sinc requires a very different plan, one that I'm not really sure of....and I don't think we have the personnel to execute it if it actually exists.
Just finished tape review. I’ll post the match report here in a bit, but worth noting in view of the Kassouf piece that Coffey had an absolutely abysmal match.
Nobody outside Sugita was in strong positive figures, but Coffey was among the poorest of the starters. Sinclair-grade poor.
Bless you for willingly doing that!
Hmmm. Could that be...that having a single pivot (whom has to drop into the back line almost next to our CB because the LB is getting too far forward but then nobody is filling into the central midfield) AND essentially has two 10's just couldn't be covered by one human person? Like, jeezus...look at this. Sam is just totally sent to slaughter by Norris because of his tactics. He literally couldn't have found a better way to make the best 6 in the league look so poor. I'm not sure Norris could've picked a worse game plan for this one....
This is straight up Vlako-level blindness and idiocy imo, that is repeated over and over and over....he seemed to have figured it out for like 2 matches, but then went back to the early season playbook of single pivot, 2 10's, and high FB's because he had no idea what to do. If I were Sam I'd be hoping for a media spotlight to be put on the coach, and hope to hell I get a new one next year. This shit will ruin a bubble player's shot at a national team career.
https://twitter.com/arielle_dror/status/1713701797293183355/photo/2
And in this one there's a straight up chasm in the midfield between attackers and defenders...
https://twitter.com/tayvincent6/status/1713731914287485088/photo/2
It's actually worse than that.
Coffey had next to no impact on the match, either good or ill. She wasn't being slaughtered; she was half a mile down the road from the killing floor picking grass and acting tame. Or something.
She had the exact same problem against San Diego; not bad, but invisible. Completely nerfed.
I don't disagree that the overall collapse is on Norris; you can delegate authority but not responsibility.
But there's something very wrong with Coffey as a player in two of the last three games and I sure wish I understood what.
I wonder if the angst of will she or won't she play for the nationals is playing on her. How many times do you have to be told you're not good enough to let it get to you. This game happening in yet another international break couldn't be helping that.
OTOH, if you want to make the national team you want to shine for your club. Disappearing in two of the three big end-of-season matches is unlikely to get you the attention of the federation...
I think Sam could watch the San Diego and this last game all day and not be able to fix what is going wrong for her performance. Teams with a Julie Ertz, Keira Walsh and Amadine Henry can go right up the middle. They are not booting the ball all the way up the field or trying to always take it down the sidelines. Her teammates in the back need to look for her. All five of them. When Soph is back the team's best player is in the middle and Sam needs to provide that service. In my opinion Sam wasn't getting killed defensively, she was on a deserted isle offensively, just out of the picture. Like Chief said just invisible.
Yep, it made no sense to start Sinc yesterday, let alone play her for 96 minutes. LA had a relatively inexperienced keeper and were looking right into the sun in the 1st half. That's a situation that has Betfort's name written all over it.
Weaver was another in the net-plus group but also the villainess of turnovers. Like, almost twice as many as the closest other Thorns…
multiple times saw her look directly at Sinc waiting for the run and just stood there marked. The body language from weaver in those instances didn't seem to be very positive, almost a cmon' again lets go!
Yeah, I'd be super frustrated to get stuck with Sinc in a game that important. Weaver knew even before stepping on the field that she was gonna have to do things alone (and she couldn't)...she wasn't even particularly sharp herself. They are the mismatch of the century...
Reign just did one thing we couldn't do: Hold ACFC 5 goals under last weekend's tally.
Helps when you hold your opponent to 4 shots and 0 on goal.
Reign v Wave in SD. Fun on a bun!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CyoGc_yrjCQ/
it's several panels long.
Yeah, she will be here next year accordingly to her new ig post…
Assuming that it's already a done deal. This piece was clearly written by her representation, and it's placed in the form of a question at the end. But it wouldn't surprise me if it is a done deal, because Merritt still owns the team and KK is still the President of Soccer Ops.
Makes me think we're the bridge to what she does next -- either coaching strikers or maybe even playing for a time in the Canadian league.
Pretty sure Sinc just announced her retirement on Instagram. Just a short video of her boots hung up over a pole. No caption. Looks national team related though, with the Team Canada logo. Not sure about club…
What do I have to sacrifice to the soccer gods to turn that into a Thorns logo
(Look at Weaver and Coffey’s comments under the post lmfao)
Hahaha I saw those. And this headline from Ryan Clarke lmao…
It’s def for Canada, but she’s said in a previous interview (a while ago now, granted) that she wanted to play a season of just club after she retired for country. Hoping this doesn’t mean another full 90 in a semi-final. Give her her flowers, but Norris, please don’t F around because we’re gonna find out, if so lol.
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland-thorns/2023/10/portland-thorns-canada-national-team-legend-christine-sinclair-appears-to-announce-retirement-on-instagram.html
What’s funny is that’s a US Army tradition that goes back at least to the 1960s; the soldier getting out the next morning threw a (usually pretty drunky) ETS party that included tying his field boots together and throwing them up on the power line wire outside the billets. So “boots hanging on the wire” was visual shorthand for “getting out”. Had no idea that was also a Canadian soccer thing…
OT: Can we get Thorns games cancelled when they shit the bed?
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-flight-cancellation-passenger-defecates-b2432251.html
Good write-up from the Chief, but the question lingers…what’s up with these guys?
It’s a roster dichotomy of young and fast with second generation skill, attitude and mentality versus old and slow with diminishing skill and first generation mentality. I don’t have to name names. The young uns want to play a certain way, the elders abhor change and will play the way they’ve always played. Norris has not been able to harmonize these two groups within the team. Not even paper over the differences.
I think it's leadership - on the pitch and sidelines - as much or more than old vs young and it's the lack of tactical nous from Mike Norris.
Yeah I don't see it as old vs young either. The comments I hear from the younger players are all about how happy they are to learn from the likes of Sinclair, Sauerbrunn, etc.
But I do agree we need to get significantly younger and faster.
I’d be okay with “smarter”, too. Tired of seeing the exact same problems time after time…
Coffey, Becky, Soph, Crystal, and Moutrie called up for this window.
I can't imagine Weaver wasn't dispirited going into that last game after getting snubbed...then imagine getting stuck next to a Sinc #9. She sure played like a distracted and defeated person. I'm guessing they found out just prior to that final game if they were called up, and I can't imagine doing all she does to still not get called in. Kinda shocked that Midge was called in over her....how many goals has she scored this year? Looking at that F pool, it's a hard one to break into for her, but there's no logical reason why she'd get passed over for Midge, specifically, who has never really stuck at the national level.
Anyways, I'm happy that 5 of our players get to flex their heads outside of the Norris bubble...it's great for Liv to start getting that higher level experience. It'll no doubt improve her club play to have a second coach in her ear. I'm excited to see her defending, in particular, improve...which I think should be a growth area for her if she keeps getting called in. Sam, gawd, I just hope they play her dammit! She's probably happy that she keeps getting called in, but it's gotta be confusing to constantly get 0 minutes.
In other news...Sinc still getting called into camp Canada. I can't imagine she's retiring anytime soon if they're still calling her in? I guess they aren't gonna just *stop* calling her in before an announcement is made since she's royalty. Unless something is announced in the next week, and those games become her retirement games...
Agree Weaver deserves a shot and perhaps a permanent US coach makes that happen? Her 2023 has been blue chip.
But Liv called up? What a breakthrough for our Superteen!
Calling in Sinc while this club season is on is one thing, and I suspect it's her unofficial farewell with them. I would be surprised if they call her in after November.
Explains the Sinc start against AC.
Without a permanent manager I don’t know if these callups mean much of anything other than a look. I certainly wouldn’t read “USSF contract” into them. If the players show well? Great! Hopefully that’ll translate into another look once the head coach hire is completed.
That’s why I wouldn’t make too much of who did and didn’t get called up. I’m guessing the players aren’t; this is literally the very beginning of the next cycle to build up to the OG. New HC, huge rotation in the WNT…there’s going to be a massive revolving door to the Nats’ over the next year. If the next HC thinks Weaver fits into the system? She’ll get the call.
That said, I didn’t see Coffey or Moultrie playing a blinder, and they DID get the call. So I suspect Weaver’s troubles at BMO weren’t hurt feelings that Midge was getting Nat love and she wasn’t. I think she was still doing Weaver things (did you read my writeup? I had her at +9/-3; that’s not outstanding for an hour, but it’s not unrespectable) but with her squad cratering around her just couldn’t act the game-changer. It happens.
Agree on Coffey, Liv, and Weaver. A little surprised to see Sophia in the mix since she’s on pretty limited minutes as she recovers from her knee injury. I agree with Kielbj elsewhere in this stream that she could benefit from some game time; I just hope she takes it easy so we get to have her healthy for the semifinal game.
Usually I would be angry about the international break in the middle of the playoffs (and it IS really stupid), but Soph really, really needs minutes. I don’t really see how she plays 90 on the 5th without more game time.
And yeah... I get it’s mostly a positional/age thing, but Moultrie getting called up and Weaver not getting the call is a real weird one.
Speaking of, do we know what Weaver’s injury is?
Yeah, I agree about Soph for sure. I just hope they don't push it. We don't need a Rose Lavelle situation on our hands. It'd be smart for our FO to schedule a game with a local team in the week-ish before the semis. I think the college season has started, but I'm sure there's several teams that'd jump at being able to play a scrimmage against the Thorns. 3 weeks is really no advantage, and, is actually a disadvantage imo.
It's def still gonna be hard to have that many of our starters gone this week and still expect to turn around the shitshow we saw last weekend. I think Hina has 3(!) friendlies with Japan (in Uzbekistan?) and the 3rd game is on the 1st. Even if she doesn't play much that 3rd game, she's gonna be exhausted. Her worst game of the season came after their last int'l match on short rest/travel.
I saw a quote about Moultrie from the coach about how she's been a USSF lifer and has gone through the whole youth system. That, unfortunately, weighs pretty heavily still in roster construction. Though, Moultrie is the type of calm possession-based midfielder (like Horan) that the USWNT needs to move towards if they wanna compete going forward...maybe they see that. Weaver is definitely further along, but Moultrie has a higher window (imo.) I do think Weaver should've gotten a chance to prove herself at that level though. She can still be rough on things like decision-making or easily revert back to run-real-fast-kick-real-hard Weaver, so I can see where hesitancy lies....but with how much she's been able to progress over the last 2 years, I think she should be given the opportunity, at the very least. She's shown real capacity for continuous growth, and I think she would do more for that team than Midge (which pains me bc I love her.) Also, I totally forgot she went out with an injury (knee?) Oof.
The Nadeshiko matches are not, if I'm remembering correctly, friendlies. They're Round 1 of the Asian Olympics qualifiers. Important matches, and I expect Hina to play...but probably not starter minutes, as Ikeda seems to favor Jun Endo in the position he plays them at. That does, however, mean that if she _does_ get a start (and potentially 90 minutes), most likely it would be in that third match on the 1st. =/
Hmmm...then again, with Endo playing today for LA (and, I assume, hopping right on a plane to report a bit late to camp), Ikeda might play Hina in the first match, then see how it goes for the rest of Round 1. Three matches total.
Yeah they definitely have more of a need in Moultrie’s position so it makes sense logically, but I think your point about the USSF lifer/reputation thing is really the reason why she’s there (not that she doesn’t deserve a look on merit, but still).
The fact that Purce is there over Weaver (I’m assuming the decision was made before her injury Sunday) is ridiculous. Weaver’s really toned down her out of control moments and channeled her chaos energy into real production. More than that, she’s *at worst* fourth in line for the league MVP. That should mean something! It’s not like she’s a 33 year old having a career year either.
Yeah, agree on both points. Kinda like with Thompson, I get why Liv is being called up....because their ceilings should be high and it's good to get them into the system early just to get them comfortable and get to know what the expectations for int'l level play is. They're very malleable. Do I think either are particularly ready for playing much in games...not really. They're both still not even starters at the club level, though they both should be. Weaver...I mean yeah you can't ignore the upward trajectory of the last two seasons. She's been mostly consistent, and has been scoring, assisting, and has a huge workrate on defense. I really don't get it.
I just saw that they’re playing Columbia and now I am really nervous to see Soph out there at all lol…one of the most needlessly fouling teams I’ve seen recently. A good test, but my gawd, I hope everyone comes out uninjured for playoffs…
It didn’t look serious she walked off. She looked troubled by it for a few minutes before she was shown sitting on the ground. The game was over at that point. Hina didn’t get the memo and was playing like the Thorns were still in it. The goal she scored could have kept AC out but Endo immediately scored to keep the margin four.
I hate that the Thorns lost but still impressed with the way AC played and found a way into the playoffs.
Weaver is probably psychologically damaged at this point seeing her efforts akin to a hamster wheel.
She wasn't herself in LA and now I can understand why. That wasn't a good performance by her standards or her fans. She is way better than that. Her stats this year attest to her improvement. Hopefully her injury is just a knock and in the next two games she goes out and shows them they made a mistake.
FWIW: Swanson has been out 6 months, Macario has been out for 16 months, and Mewis is 9 months since her most recent surgery.
Two years in a row, Thorns have turned Decision Day into The Crappening.
A stinker, yes, but a team stinker. Morgan wasn’t very good and she’s usually the best Thorn out there. I counted maybe three positive encounters from Sinclair in 96 minutes. Otherwise, jog over here, jog over there, like she was on a Sunday morning stroll. The defense was equally atrocious. Kuikka beat on two goals and beat on the cross that led to another goal. Kling beat on the back post. Hubly doing Hubly things.
Old and slow, old mentality and old tactics. I seriously doubt Norris is calling the shots, rather veterans are calling the shots for him. It makes no sense for the team to come out so passive, maybe even quit, for a big game against a SoCal rival.
Having watched WS-NCC highlights I now see how Rodman got the boot, and it's VAR that elevated it to red from yellow. Bad choice on her part.
IDK why NCC could only manage one goal playing XI v X but who had Tyler Lussi, scoring hero on their 2023 bingo cards? Agnostic on which team travels to PDX, each has their challenges and both are beatable. Since Good Janet Thorns are scheduled, let's move on to the final.
The shield would have been a great achievement. The team has talked all year about wanting to win both. But yesterday was also an opportunity to show that they've figured some things out and establish a little consistency in their performance, which, evidently, was too much to hope for. I almost wish this season they were either hot (which they had plenty of talent to be) or cold (which would have been somewhat understandable given the limbo the club is in). All the ups and downs this year have been brutal, and I can only imagine how much more so for the players. After this season, if they do somehow pull it out for the championship (big if), I still don't feel like that will be satisfying for the season.