The balanced --if perhaps generous-- view is that this was a season defined by chaos: The Thorns had months of injuries to two of their three most important players. Becky was out for months. Soph missed the entire stretch run and wasn’t able to regain full fitness for the semi. Weaver clearly wasn’t right after her knock against ACFC. Combine the injuries with the WC, internal uncertainty over ownership leading to minimal improvements and no depth, and an inexperienced coach, and you get what we got. Now, other teams had some of the same issues, so that’s not necessarily an excuse...but it’s certainly a fair element to bring up.
So, the positives:
- We have a 25 year old future captain at the 6 who is not only a total delight as a human, but is the best holding midfielder in the league. Things can change, but there’s a good possibility we get to watch her play for us for the next decade....and that’s pretty damn cool.
- We have the league MVP and golden boot winner under contract for another year.
- We have very talented, young building blocks (Moultrie, Weaver, Hina, and Reyes) at key positions.
- This is still probably the most scary on-paper team in the league with a competent coach who runs a clearly defined tactical system.
Things that need to happen:
- The sale. Obviously.
- Hire a real coach, and have said coach ease Sinc as far away from the starting 11 as possible.
- Start Shelby Hogan over Bixby next season.
- Make Soph confident --both financially and from a team-building and franchise stability perspective-- that she can re-sign and have the club match her ambition.
- Sign a high level CB and real forward depth utilizing BOTH free agency and international signings.
Ultimately, this roster is more in need of tweaks than a total overhaul. Gotta get the coach right, and new ownership has to come out swinging. If those things happen, there’s no reason this team can’t be right up there next season. Hell, they were right up there this season despite everything.
Excited --if a little nervous re: Dunn and new ownership-- for the offseason!
That was so well said Kielbj. It deserves more than a like. Thanks Phouc and Wilder also for your recap, it is hard to put a happy face on disappointing, but this was a challenging season and very unlucky that our two most important offensive weapons were not at full strength and with Kuikka and Hina having a brutal trip back from Nationals, Sheesh. I could see Hina made an immediate impact and then seemed to fade quickly. Who could blame her?
"- Make Soph confident --both financially and from a team-building and franchise stability perspective-- that she can re-sign and have the club match her ambition."
Getting a grass field would go a long way toward this, IMO.
Does that mean she’s for sure leaving or that she’s just shopping around to see what she can get? I can’t tell if her being here next year is like 80/20 (y/n), 50/50, or slim…
I'm not sure that's the worst thing. She had a bad second half of the season and is entering her age 32 season. We don't win the Championship last year without her, and that's enough of a legacy for me.
I personally don't think she has done a ton for the club in the grand scheme of things, but don't expect her to suddenly turn around and tear it up as she enters her mid 30s. A part of that is obviously due to the pregnancy/maternity leave, another part is due to bad coaching, but overall, I don't think I can think of 5 games where I'm like "Man, Dunn was the best player on the field" or "If it wasn't for Dunn, there's no way we win that". She's not done done, but also not the player she once was (which is fine), so I could go either way with her staying or moving on (assuming the new ownership know what they are doing and they hire a GM that can build a roster and coach that can actually coach because Karina/Williamson/Norris have been meh to bad).
I have felt that Dunn has seemed a little checked out this year and would not be surprised to see her leave and I wouldn’t be devastated either. She is a great player, but also a mom and a wife and I think she would like to be in a situation where she has her family together and a more important role on the team. The Thorns are Soph’s team and Sam’s and Weaver is the fan’ favorite.
I hope Becky doesn’t leave she really showed her value and I think she is happy here.
Can't really disagree with any of this. I still think Portland is a destination for players provided the sale is done and done to someone competent. We have, in my biased opinion, the best fanbase in the league and one of the best in WoSo in the world. That alone makes us a destination. Add in competent ownership and a commitment to upgrading the facilities? Then all that existential fear will disappear.
I doubt we have Sophia for ten years. Emma Hayes has stated publicly that US team players need to go over to Europe to get better. The NWSL boat is sinking and Hayes has a drill in her hand.
I was referring to Coffey, not Soph- I think there’s a 50% Soph stays or goes after next season, probably depending on a combo of new ownership and whatever she views as necessary to get better.
I’d quibble a little bit with saying the NWSL is sinking- It’s actively growing in both popularity and size. I’d agree that it’s inevitable that the big European leagues will pass it up eventually just because of the size and financial heft of the clubs over there, but aside from the tippy top (Barca, Chelsea, Lyon), the quality is in no way any better than NWSL *at the moment*. Emma Hayes ain’t benching Sophia Smith just because she plays in the U.S.
Honestly, those comments are concerning, but mostly for the Sav Demelos, Ashley Hatches, and Sam Coffeys of the world. I don’t think she’ll hold the elite talent out of the lineup based on where they play- She’d be rightly shredded for it. She’ll also have to adapt to being USWNT coach now vs. commenting as an outsider: You can’t tell players they have to leave the domestic league of the nation you coach. That’s just immensely damaging to youth development in the country.
I’d also say that the NWSL will have to --and likely will-- grow tactically as the league gains popularity. We’ve already seen better managers start to get hired, and I think it will get better and better.
I think both things can be true. Hayes can be speaking to the status of the league and American WoSo at a certain point in time. It's on the NWSL league, ownership, and coaching staffs to change that. It has to be clear that it's not just a good investment or a fun fan experience, but that we're actually committed to playing at levels that the top European clubs play when they train and when they play each other. It's no exaggeration to say that Lyon's Second XI are better than most NWSL club's First XI.
Right, but Lyon is also one of three (if you count Paris FC) teams in their league that wouldn’t get beaten --badly in many cases-- by most NWSL teams. Same goes for La Liga, Bundesliga, and until recently, the WSL.
I do think there are real critiques to be made about American soccer, specifically in terms of youth development and our lack of academies. I don’t think that foreign coaches reducing the issue to lack of tactical sophistication is accurate or helpful, and Hayes’ comment about the lack of creative talent in the States is just flat out wrong at best and ignorant/uneducated at worst.
2."... overall, I think America are massively short of creative talent. When you're playing against more well-organised teams, better-coached teams, you have to break them down, and that breaking teams down is a combination of strategy, tactics and personnel, and I don't see that they've got the personnel to do that.
Again, I would agree. I didn't see a lot of that ability on display at the most recent Olympics or WWC. I think we've had more players who had that ability in times past, and I don't think we had our strongest roster at the WWC.
1."There's still a huge amount of talent in this U.S. team, but with so many of the squad playing solely in the NWSL, it doesn't offer enough diversity to their squad in terms of playing against different styles. Here in Europe, where you're playing in different competitions, Champions League or cups, players aren't going to be fazed by other things because they come up against different football week in, week out.
I'd say that's true, but that's also remedied to some degree by bringing more high-quality internationals into the league. I do not think it's a good thing for the NWSL or the Nats for the NWSL to be strongly identified as a US collegiate pipeline.
Eidevall's comments about this in the summer on a Men in Blazers podcast were pretty good too. Said diversity can come into the league through different coaching. Think that has to be a priority of this league too; not the same retreads of American soccer. Look at what hiring someone like Amoros has done for Gotham.
Do you have a few shouts for a new Thorns coach, should they do that? I'm curious about the pool of coaches out there that I'm less familiar with. I see people on the internet crowing to get Mark Parsons back here and I just wanna scream lol.
Well that was cathartic. That story was worth the subscription.
I know I am a homer, but the statistics I have looked at the statistics presented in this story show that she is underrated. I know there are a lot of reasons she was omitted and we see the same thing on the nominees for Balón de Or. I hope Morgan sees the Equalizer story. Some recognition anyway.
I will also say that I don’t believe there is a more loved player in the league over her.
Her attitude is infectious and the level of joy she gets in playing just resonates with the crowd. Sophia is always going to get the biggest pop, because she’s generational and she deserves it … but Morgan has a real connection with that fan base.
I wish she popped that opportunity. It didn’t happen, but I’m comfortable she’ll work and continue to get better.
I don’t want to go in depth until I’ve had the chance to review tape (and let me say for the record, thanks,NWSL! for having to do this on the DVR with its fussiness about freezing and scanning forward and back!) but I saw the same things last night I’ve seen bite this team in the ass all season:
1) Overreliance on Smith hero-ball and individual effort in front of goal.
Especially with Chesky in the middle Gotham was gonna lay bodies on Smith like a back-alley beating. The Krieger foul was just the most visible; most of the time Smith got possession in or near the 18 she was instantly smothered and dispossessed.
2) Sloppy passing and turnovers. Nuff’ said.
3) Poor composure when pressed, slow to release or move to space. Unlike the October win here virtually no pressure on Gotham, especially in their own half.
4) Lack of quick thought and action; Gotham was quicker to damn near most loose balls, won duels and looked much better composed on and off the ball.
Almost all of that is either techniques that should have been drilled on the training ground, or tactics, and both come down principally to coaching.
So the next steps are 1) get the new ownership in place ASAP, and 2) get the new GM and HC - and, please, no Peregrine internal hires and retreads - in place, also ASAP.
There’s quality on this roster. But the depth is suspect and there’s some obvious immediate as well as likely future needs from draft losses, free agency, and retirement.
This isn’t Houston. Finishing second, losing playoff games isn’t “good try!”, it’s problems to be solved. Let’s get working on them!
She played at Chelsea in their youth academy, again on the full team, and then was also a player manager there shortly, for a season after the previous manager left. I know she's just gone through a long emigration process to get her kids here from the UK, but I'd still not be surprised at all to see her choose to go back there by the next WSL season, which would be around Oct, 2024. EH will be finishing this season with Chelsea, so there's not a rush.
2023 NWSL Best XI First Team (listed by position, alphabetically by last name): Goalkeeper: Jane Campbell, Houston Dash – Defenders: Naomi Girma, San Diego Wave FC; Sarah Gorden, Angel City FC; Ali Krieger, NJ/NY Gotham FC; Sam Staab, Washington Spirit – Midfielders/Forwards: Sam Coffey, Portland Thorns FC; Debinha, Kansas City Current; Kerolin, North Carolina Courage; Jaedyn Shaw, San Diego Wave FC; Sophia Smith, Portland Thorns FC; Lynn Williams, NJ/NY Gotham FC
2023 NWSL Best XI Second Team (listed by position, alphabetically by last name): Goalkeeper: Kailen Sheridan, San Diego Wave FC – Defenders: Emily Fox, North Carolina Courage; Kaleigh Kurtz, North Carolina Courage; Jenna Nighswonger, NJ/NY Gotham FC; M.A. Vignola, Angel City FC – Midfielders/Forwards: Savannah DeMelo, Racing Louisville FC; Ashley Hatch, Washington Spirit; Savannah McCaskill, Angel City FC; Alex Morgan, San Diego Wave FC; Denise O’Sullivan, North Carolina Courage; Trinity Rodman, Washington Spirit
Miffed to not see Morgan Weaver and Hina up there, but two on Best XI ain't a bad thing.
Weaver is underrated. I don't know why. That first team is stacked. But she's at least second best XI. And she really carried this team during Sophia's absence. I feel like Rodman is on there because name and hype, more than form this year.
I always see comments here about how Rodman’s overhyped and it makes me feel insane- She’s an AWESOME player who does much more than what shows up on the stat sheet. She might be the best defensive forward in the league, is constantly keyed on by defenses because the Spirit don’t really have a second creator in behind, and is always near the top in G+.
THAT SAID: Weaver had a better year than Rodman did and should have been on the second team. As should Adriana, who was also robbed.
Yeah, Rodman is excellent but playing on a team with little vision for that final 3rd. Nonetheless, she's a top player. Also agree about Adriana. Every time I watched her play, I was like, damn! How can we get her to Portland?! She's so so skilled. I can't believe she didn't make either.
For whatever reason, Rodman doesn't seem to have improved since her meteoric rookie season, and the raw numbers suggest even a bit of a backslide. Maybe it's hard to make that next leap when you started off so high?
My guess is Washington cratering last year has colored some of the opinions on Rodman. She still remains super talented with much of it unobtained so far. I think by the time we get to the next World Cup she's going to be at the top of her game.
If Williams (7g , 3a) made the Best XI, Weaver (7g, 4a) definitely should have made the Next Best XI and arguably should have been in the Best XI instead of Williams. Rodman (5g, 2a) should not have been on either team. Heck, Hina (6g, 3a) or Dunn (5g, 2a) could have easily replaced her in the Next Best XI.
I thought so too re: Lynn. That should've been Weaver, just based on stats. There are definitely "players that are popular" and players that don't fit that media narrative and I think Weaver comes down on the wrong side of that, unfortunately. And I think the lackluster end to the season probably denied Sugita (especially) or Dunn any individual accolades, another negative to playing for a coach that doesn't know what they're doing.
At least we can all delight in the fact that Seattle has no players in either XI lol. If they win, it'll be hilarious because they were absolutely not the best team this year.
I think Weaver is seen as all “run fast shoot hard” one-trick pony. If you don’t see her a lot you probably don’t appreciate the refinements she’s including in her game. We do, so we don’t get the exclusion.
I think she also suffers from Norrisball, which tends to overrely on Smith creating herself, so neutrals don’t see Weaver doing a lot of “team goal” things that get wingers noticed.
The league figured Norris out, and from then on we were average.
And it's not just tactics or roster, but technical... passes off, sloppy giveaways in midfield. Given the direct style of play, at times I felt like I was watching Gio ball.
Injuries and absences didn't help, but every team has to deal with those. Despite a second place finish on the table and semifinal, this year seemed like a regression. No back-to-back wins since June and lopsided losses away from home with a trophy on the line, is below standard for this club.
They gave it their best last night, and the team culture is still strong. But there are clear roster issues to address and I think we need a manager who is up to it. Norris seems like a nice guy and did an admirable job as placeholder during a difficult period. But this clubs' talent and ambition demands a top class manager.
Paulson has to sell the team already. No more limbo. Either sell or don't. If not, own up to it, and then start investing in the team again. Otherwise, he's just milking it and we fall behind.
Agree with all of this here. Though, it's not IF the sale is gonna happen, it's WHEN. It's already on track to be done by the end of the year and the process is already reportedly far along. Becky said last night some of the players are being looped into the process, and it's a really difficult process splitting them from the Timbers...but that she's really excited for new ownership. The wait has been a bit excruciating, but thankfully, we don't have much longer.
My hope is that it happens sooner to now than to Dec. 31st, because I'd love a new GM and head coach in there for the expansion draft on Dec. 15th, but more so, for the college draft. The timeline is very short for a proper HC search and to get them in before the expansion draft...and also, who is doing that search? KK? Is she out too? My guess is they don't NEED a new coach by the expansion draft because the club will likely just have the deals made or know which players are likely to be picked by then so there's not much work there for a head coach. But, it would be imperative they conclude a search and get the new coach in before the college draft....a date they haven't announced yet, but I think it was mid-January last time.
As usual, I suspect that at least some of this stuff is done but not yet announced. Maybe wishful thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some significant news soon after the Final.
GK -- Menges -- Sauerbrunn -- Kuikka. What's the next pass? Like 90% of the time? Kuikka infield to Coffey or Moultrie. If Menges sees an opening to the right, then it's GK -- Menges -- Kling and then infield to Coffey or Moultrie. Gotham cut off that infield pass two dozen times last night.
I get that we all hate Paulson, but the holdup on the sale isn't necessarily down to him. I think the league is very much involved and they are making darn sure the team goes to a strong committed ownership group. Sometimes that takes awhile.
It is also a complicated deal because the stadium-will the Thorns be renters, part owners, so many issues with that side of things, not surprised this is taking months.
"Playoff form is a real thing, and Portland didn't look to be the team we expected them to be at this point of the season."
- "Portland had class all over the field but couldn't find a class moment."
- Hard for the higher-seeded team to remain in form while sitting for a few weeks.
- Semifinal coming after international break is disruptive for players, especially those who go off to train with their national team during their club's postseason. Smith traveled with the USWNT, while Lavelle stayed in Seattle, trained with the team, and saw minutes in the quarterfinals.
- Gotham and Reign had more energy from the outset than did Thorns and Wave.
- Compare substitution of Sugita and Kuikka at 75th with how Amoros handled substitutions situationally and strategically.
New Equalizer pod says Thorns have a lot of off-season questions to answer and many things to figure out, including:
- starting keeper - who is it going forward?
- coach - this one is isn't winning chess matches or pulling the right levers at the right time
- connection & composure
- where does team and club go from here? was 2023 like 2019?
- free agency
- expansion draft impacts
- ownership change as "continually told, or at least promised, by the end of the year"
- plenty of individual talent, but does everybody stick around?
- need for new ideas and ability to respond to questions, because "they haven't had the answers when they do get hit" and they don't know why they're underperforming when that happens
Of course he can! Gavin and Golub were assigned to both Timbers and Thorns, so why not Phil? On paper, he's totally qualified, having coached England women 2018-21 and culturally, he's a great fit with the Thorns because he's been an assistant for Canada this year. And, given his strong social media game of making sexist tweets, he's vintage NWSL material. How this man hasn't already been named NWSL Coach of the Decade, I have no idea.
Interesting to hear the 2019 reference- I made the 2019/2023 comp before the semi just from a “it feels like this car is rolling off a cliff and I have an intense dread about this playoff game” perspective, but I do feel the roster situations are entirely different.
Aside from the Sinc/Menges/Kling trio, the top 6 on that 2019 team were Horan, Raso, Carpenter, Sonnett, Purce, and a perennially injured Heath. Carpenter left for Lyon (I was v upset about this). Sonnett was traded for the Smith pick in the fleecing of the decade. Raso left for Everton. Purce went to Gotham. Heath was taken in the expansion draft. Smith, Weaver, Rocky, Dunn, Becky, and Kuikka were brought in. Looking back, a remarkable overhaul from 2019-2021, even taking the COVID year into account.
This team has some questions, but mostly on the management level with the (hopefully) new coach and new ownership. Our top 6 --assuming Becky is back-- is (seemingly) locked in for at least next season with the exception of Dunn and her FA decision: Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, and Becky should all be here next year. The GK question is really the one that needs answering, but it’s really a roster that needs touching up, not an a total overhaul.
No question Soph got mugged, and it was hardly the first time it happened to Soph, let alone any other Thorn, on the day.
But I can't see the DOGSO because although Soph was the closest Thorn to the ball and *likely* would have been the first player to it, that was a through ball put well out into open space.
Just because Soph was closest to it doesn't mean she was close to it. That ball was a good 20 or more yards ahead of her, and she would have to run it down, either beating Haught to it or Haught staying in place.
Several times yesterday, Haught came out aggressively and got to the ball first, so even though it's a DOGSO situation, I don't feel confident in saying it was a clear DOGSO. Weaver had created a 50/50 ball, and Soph would have to get to it before Haught or Haught would have to choose to stay put. Neither of those options are that clear in my mind.
While I certainly think Gotham should have been playing at least 1 player down by that point in the match (somebody should have been shown 2 yellows), I don't think a straight red would have been the right call there. Would have helped us, no doubt, but not the right call.
I think there's a gap in the LOTG that needs to be addressed with this kind of foul by Krieger. I'm seeing it more and more in the game, with rugby tackles/professional fouls and players getting a yellow based on the current LOTG.
The yellow card seems insufficient, red card disproportionate so maybe a 10 minute sin bin is more appropriate.
I also wonder if we are seeing more of these fouls due to 5 subs rules because you can let someone take a yellow and repeat 4-5 times, knowing you can sub out.
I think that's right. Gotham used their yellows strategically. I do think a couple of players could have been shown 2 yellows, but they really distributed the load as to who's turn it was to "take one for the team."
If the ball was twenty yards in front of Smith it was that far from Krieger. Fouls like that with no available play on the ball can be red cards but it would have been shocking if that happened. The referee last night seems like a nice person. She was certainly chatting up the players. But she has no clue how to manage such a big game. It was a lot to ask for her.
I thought it was yellow at the time, and if it had been our defender there is no way it's DOGSO :D But I did think it was questionable, and VAR did take a look at it. So I have to accept it as the right call. But it was close. If Sophia had broken away, it's clear DOGSO.
I think that’s exactly right. It was both far enough away from goal and had juuuust enough uncertainty about who was getting to the ball first that a red would have been the slightest bit harsh. I think the fact that it was such a cynical, blatant grab from Krieger makes it seem much worse. If the roles were reversed, would I have thought a red was warranted? Probably not.
(I actually thought Chesky was mostly decent last night. You’re right that she coulda dished out a few more cards, but she wasn’t terrible)
I agree. There was too much uncertainty in the situation for the 'obvious' portion of the DOGSO. But the blatant cynicism by Krieger is what's frustrating. Completely off-ball bear-hug tackle on a player who had taken a beating. But then I'm of the opinion that more cards for obstruction and off-ball fouls should be given. And that there needs to be some mechanism of collective punishment for backlines where the strategy is for everyone to kick the opposing star player just enough to put them off but not enough for anyone specifically to get carded.
My final hot take prediction of the season: Mark Parsons returns for a second go and a 3rd re-boot of the roster (I saw him post "go thorns" on X during the semi). He makes a series of deals for drafts picks, picking up two starters and a crap ton of undrafted rookies. He re-hires Pierre, insuring Dunn's return. Brings in a few free agents (CB, FB, FW). In the end, we again loose at home in the semis to resurgent Chicago team.
Their form (incl. playoffs and not CC games) since that beastmode Sophia Smith Washington Spirit game at home just before the WC has been pretty abysmal: L-L-W-L-W-L-D-W-L-L
They had lost 3 of their last 5 going into playoffs. They lost 6 of their last 10. Pretty pretty poor...
That’s just an aggregation of her post game quotes from Sunday. While I don’t think it’s nothing -- she’s not on the Sinc or Kling level-- we can’t expect every player to tell us they want to end their career here when asked about their future. I’d still be shocked if she left given her age, family situation, and quotes regarding the new ownership; but I suppose its possible. She can say she will “test out” free agency and still have every intent to return. If she gets a godfather offer from say, KC? Yeah, I think she’d consider it. I also think it would have to be something massive to get her out of Portland.
I also agree that she’s intentional with her words...and I think her intent was to:
1. Use free agency as a bargaining chip with the Thorns. Players do this all the time: They want to stay where they are, but they also need to have leverage for a better contract.
2. Praise the union and highlight the importance of having free agency. That absolutely is a Becky thing to do.
I think this is a non-story based on the one question asked from Ryan in the after game presser. Her body language and other answers seemed to indicate she wasn’t going anywhere…but, I guess who knows for sure. There’s no additional info in this story…it’s just quotes from the presser that had nothing to do with Becky’s free agency taken out of context to support the writer's narrative. Kinda shoddy journalism there imo…
I think she’s saying that because she, as you say, wants to model the process for other players…but I also just think it’s because, if she does re-sign here, it will be Dec 16th after the expansion draft and keeping it intentionally ambiguous because that’s what every other club is doing with their free agents. If Becky goes elsewhere for a year during an Olympic year (where she’ll be competing to even make the roster) after having a house and partner here (and saying otherwise how much she loves the city), especially when she’s considered a leader of a team going through a whole lot of changes in 2024…then I will eat my hat lol.
Becky is very thoughtful, composed, an excellent communicator, a true leader in all respects.
She took that opportunity to provide the answer she wanted to provide.
If she didn't want to address it there and then, and put out the message she intended, there are many ways to do so that are unremarkable and befitting of the moment.
For example, "Our season just ended, and all of us are disappointed in the way it ended. That goes for my teammates, our coaching staff, the entire organization, and our incredible fans. That's where all of us are right now."
So, I don't think Becky's response was a nothingburger or not worth reporting. She didn't sidestep it or go with a cliche. She also didn't go with a "I want to finish my career as a Thorn."
I agree. I think Becky feels the PA fought hard for it and as a free agent she needs to try it out. I see her as pretty comfortable finishing her career here. But if she were given a great offer, well she might take it and who could blame her. At the presser I saw her interest in free agency as more intellectual.
Anyone have any Thorns trade predictions? Feels like they usually come out of nowhere-The Smith, Purce and Yaz deals off the top of my head.
I’d say, Rocky and Bixby are the two most obvious candidates, but the roster is so thin after that I don’t really see any other possibilities barring something crazy.
With the roster so thin, I'm not sure they really need to trade anything, at least in respect to the expansion draft. Rocky will likely be protected (she's contracted through 2025), and then with the +1 that we can use, we'll only lose one of the Bixby/Hubly/Beckie tier (and two of those will be the 9th and +1 so we do have some choice there, with the last left unprotected) and then, one would be picked from Betfort/Nally/Porter/et al....
I'd just roll the dice with the expansion draft and not try to make any deals, because we don't really have much to lose. Pointless to make trades for more than we'd lose if we did nothing. Leave Bixby unprotected and maybe we only lose one field player (even though I don't even think Bix would be chosen if unprotected.) I have a nagging feeling that Hubly will be left out to dry because Beckie is valued waaaay more by KK than what is reality....which would be unfortunate. We also have a Sevecke waiting in the wings (somewhere?)...did we really bring her here just to let her contract expire and to go on the waiver wire? Maybe she's some nice draft bait? But, I'm guessing as a (younger) international, she's probably better and more valuable than Hubly overall. My guess is her +1 year will be exercised, but she'll be left unprotected. So then we at least have one CB if the other is taken....I dunno. KK seems like she just makes impulsive decisions on the fly and I have no idea if there's any method to her madness.
Bixby is signed through 2024. Beckie, 2024 + 1 yr option, and Hubly, through 2024.
Now, if they're gonna try to game for the college draft? I have no idea...those are always baffling when they happen and usually aren't easily predicted. Free agents also add another angle just because we have no idea who we're losing and who stays, and makes positional predictions v hard. I also don't know what resources each expansion team holds for the college draft, and I haven't been paying attention to college ball so I've got no idea if there's someone they'd really wanna get. Anyone know if this college draft is valuable? I think we have like the 12th pick or something, so we could try to improve there....
Yeah I was thinking less in the context of the expansion draft and more in the context of random out of nowhere swaps- My thought is still that they’ll pay somebody off if they really want to keep Hubly or anyone else....maybe donate a Tegan McGrady to Bay City if needed.
Ironically, we really could have used Beckie this season, but I have no idea what influence KK will have going forward on who stays and who goes. I’m sure there will be some shenanigans regardless. Also no idea regarding the college class, though I am of the opinion that they should be done betting on the non-elite college prospects and go out and make a real splash international signing.
I am not a fan of trading Rocky - she is our only depth at the 6 if, gods forbid, Coffey goes down. Bixby could be tough - she might just hang up the gloves - and probably would have to be accompanied by a big bag o' TAM. But I'd at least entertain that if we were talking about Sam Staab, Jane Campbell, or Caprice Didasco, for example.
My season post-mortem:
The balanced --if perhaps generous-- view is that this was a season defined by chaos: The Thorns had months of injuries to two of their three most important players. Becky was out for months. Soph missed the entire stretch run and wasn’t able to regain full fitness for the semi. Weaver clearly wasn’t right after her knock against ACFC. Combine the injuries with the WC, internal uncertainty over ownership leading to minimal improvements and no depth, and an inexperienced coach, and you get what we got. Now, other teams had some of the same issues, so that’s not necessarily an excuse...but it’s certainly a fair element to bring up.
So, the positives:
- We have a 25 year old future captain at the 6 who is not only a total delight as a human, but is the best holding midfielder in the league. Things can change, but there’s a good possibility we get to watch her play for us for the next decade....and that’s pretty damn cool.
- We have the league MVP and golden boot winner under contract for another year.
- We have very talented, young building blocks (Moultrie, Weaver, Hina, and Reyes) at key positions.
- This is still probably the most scary on-paper team in the league with a competent coach who runs a clearly defined tactical system.
Things that need to happen:
- The sale. Obviously.
- Hire a real coach, and have said coach ease Sinc as far away from the starting 11 as possible.
- Start Shelby Hogan over Bixby next season.
- Make Soph confident --both financially and from a team-building and franchise stability perspective-- that she can re-sign and have the club match her ambition.
- Sign a high level CB and real forward depth utilizing BOTH free agency and international signings.
Ultimately, this roster is more in need of tweaks than a total overhaul. Gotta get the coach right, and new ownership has to come out swinging. If those things happen, there’s no reason this team can’t be right up there next season. Hell, they were right up there this season despite everything.
Excited --if a little nervous re: Dunn and new ownership-- for the offseason!
That was so well said Kielbj. It deserves more than a like. Thanks Phouc and Wilder also for your recap, it is hard to put a happy face on disappointing, but this was a challenging season and very unlucky that our two most important offensive weapons were not at full strength and with Kuikka and Hina having a brutal trip back from Nationals, Sheesh. I could see Hina made an immediate impact and then seemed to fade quickly. Who could blame her?
"- Make Soph confident --both financially and from a team-building and franchise stability perspective-- that she can re-sign and have the club match her ambition."
Getting a grass field would go a long way toward this, IMO.
I’d say a grass practice facility is probably the most important thing tbh.
Heard from someone who was friendly with Pierre (if not best buds) before he moved that Dunn is shopping her services around.
Does that mean she’s for sure leaving or that she’s just shopping around to see what she can get? I can’t tell if her being here next year is like 80/20 (y/n), 50/50, or slim…
I'm not sure that's the worst thing. She had a bad second half of the season and is entering her age 32 season. We don't win the Championship last year without her, and that's enough of a legacy for me.
I personally don't think she has done a ton for the club in the grand scheme of things, but don't expect her to suddenly turn around and tear it up as she enters her mid 30s. A part of that is obviously due to the pregnancy/maternity leave, another part is due to bad coaching, but overall, I don't think I can think of 5 games where I'm like "Man, Dunn was the best player on the field" or "If it wasn't for Dunn, there's no way we win that". She's not done done, but also not the player she once was (which is fine), so I could go either way with her staying or moving on (assuming the new ownership know what they are doing and they hire a GM that can build a roster and coach that can actually coach because Karina/Williamson/Norris have been meh to bad).
I have felt that Dunn has seemed a little checked out this year and would not be surprised to see her leave and I wouldn’t be devastated either. She is a great player, but also a mom and a wife and I think she would like to be in a situation where she has her family together and a more important role on the team. The Thorns are Soph’s team and Sam’s and Weaver is the fan’ favorite.
I hope Becky doesn’t leave she really showed her value and I think she is happy here.
Can't really disagree with any of this. I still think Portland is a destination for players provided the sale is done and done to someone competent. We have, in my biased opinion, the best fanbase in the league and one of the best in WoSo in the world. That alone makes us a destination. Add in competent ownership and a commitment to upgrading the facilities? Then all that existential fear will disappear.
I doubt we have Sophia for ten years. Emma Hayes has stated publicly that US team players need to go over to Europe to get better. The NWSL boat is sinking and Hayes has a drill in her hand.
I was referring to Coffey, not Soph- I think there’s a 50% Soph stays or goes after next season, probably depending on a combo of new ownership and whatever she views as necessary to get better.
I’d quibble a little bit with saying the NWSL is sinking- It’s actively growing in both popularity and size. I’d agree that it’s inevitable that the big European leagues will pass it up eventually just because of the size and financial heft of the clubs over there, but aside from the tippy top (Barca, Chelsea, Lyon), the quality is in no way any better than NWSL *at the moment*. Emma Hayes ain’t benching Sophia Smith just because she plays in the U.S.
I will add that I lifted these from an ESPN article and have no idea when they were made.
Honestly, those comments are concerning, but mostly for the Sav Demelos, Ashley Hatches, and Sam Coffeys of the world. I don’t think she’ll hold the elite talent out of the lineup based on where they play- She’d be rightly shredded for it. She’ll also have to adapt to being USWNT coach now vs. commenting as an outsider: You can’t tell players they have to leave the domestic league of the nation you coach. That’s just immensely damaging to youth development in the country.
I’d also say that the NWSL will have to --and likely will-- grow tactically as the league gains popularity. We’ve already seen better managers start to get hired, and I think it will get better and better.
I think both things can be true. Hayes can be speaking to the status of the league and American WoSo at a certain point in time. It's on the NWSL league, ownership, and coaching staffs to change that. It has to be clear that it's not just a good investment or a fun fan experience, but that we're actually committed to playing at levels that the top European clubs play when they train and when they play each other. It's no exaggeration to say that Lyon's Second XI are better than most NWSL club's First XI.
Right, but Lyon is also one of three (if you count Paris FC) teams in their league that wouldn’t get beaten --badly in many cases-- by most NWSL teams. Same goes for La Liga, Bundesliga, and until recently, the WSL.
I do think there are real critiques to be made about American soccer, specifically in terms of youth development and our lack of academies. I don’t think that foreign coaches reducing the issue to lack of tactical sophistication is accurate or helpful, and Hayes’ comment about the lack of creative talent in the States is just flat out wrong at best and ignorant/uneducated at worst.
2."... overall, I think America are massively short of creative talent. When you're playing against more well-organised teams, better-coached teams, you have to break them down, and that breaking teams down is a combination of strategy, tactics and personnel, and I don't see that they've got the personnel to do that.
Again, I would agree. I didn't see a lot of that ability on display at the most recent Olympics or WWC. I think we've had more players who had that ability in times past, and I don't think we had our strongest roster at the WWC.
1."There's still a huge amount of talent in this U.S. team, but with so many of the squad playing solely in the NWSL, it doesn't offer enough diversity to their squad in terms of playing against different styles. Here in Europe, where you're playing in different competitions, Champions League or cups, players aren't going to be fazed by other things because they come up against different football week in, week out.
I'd say that's true, but that's also remedied to some degree by bringing more high-quality internationals into the league. I do not think it's a good thing for the NWSL or the Nats for the NWSL to be strongly identified as a US collegiate pipeline.
Eidevall's comments about this in the summer on a Men in Blazers podcast were pretty good too. Said diversity can come into the league through different coaching. Think that has to be a priority of this league too; not the same retreads of American soccer. Look at what hiring someone like Amoros has done for Gotham.
Do you have a few shouts for a new Thorns coach, should they do that? I'm curious about the pool of coaches out there that I'm less familiar with. I see people on the internet crowing to get Mark Parsons back here and I just wanna scream lol.
I will post the two quotes she's made about it. Judge for yourself
Here's a cathartic read re: award snubs for the Weaver stan in us all:
https://equalizersoccer.com/2023/11/06/morgan-weaver-may-be-the-most-underrated-player-in-the-nwsl-right-now/
It won't stay that way forever.
Thanks for this; it is cathartic. Hopefully Thornando’s view on recognition for Weaver happens next season. She deserves it.
I love this!! Morgan deserves the article if she’s not getting the accolades. Watching Weaver play is just fun
This content is showing up as full access for free. That's a rarity!
I know, I had to make sure I didn't have an Equalizer sub that I didn't know about lol
Well that was cathartic. That story was worth the subscription.
I know I am a homer, but the statistics I have looked at the statistics presented in this story show that she is underrated. I know there are a lot of reasons she was omitted and we see the same thing on the nominees for Balón de Or. I hope Morgan sees the Equalizer story. Some recognition anyway.
I will also say that I don’t believe there is a more loved player in the league over her.
Her attitude is infectious and the level of joy she gets in playing just resonates with the crowd. Sophia is always going to get the biggest pop, because she’s generational and she deserves it … but Morgan has a real connection with that fan base.
I wish she popped that opportunity. It didn’t happen, but I’m comfortable she’ll work and continue to get better.
Morgan has certainly shown that she’s hungry and will put the work in. I would love to see her and Soph together for at least a couple more years
Proper tribute. God, to have had her at WWC.
IMHO it all gelled for Morgan this season and if she repeats her off-season work of last year, who can guess the ceiling?
I don’t want to go in depth until I’ve had the chance to review tape (and let me say for the record, thanks,NWSL! for having to do this on the DVR with its fussiness about freezing and scanning forward and back!) but I saw the same things last night I’ve seen bite this team in the ass all season:
1) Overreliance on Smith hero-ball and individual effort in front of goal.
Especially with Chesky in the middle Gotham was gonna lay bodies on Smith like a back-alley beating. The Krieger foul was just the most visible; most of the time Smith got possession in or near the 18 she was instantly smothered and dispossessed.
2) Sloppy passing and turnovers. Nuff’ said.
3) Poor composure when pressed, slow to release or move to space. Unlike the October win here virtually no pressure on Gotham, especially in their own half.
4) Lack of quick thought and action; Gotham was quicker to damn near most loose balls, won duels and looked much better composed on and off the ball.
Almost all of that is either techniques that should have been drilled on the training ground, or tactics, and both come down principally to coaching.
So the next steps are 1) get the new ownership in place ASAP, and 2) get the new GM and HC - and, please, no Peregrine internal hires and retreads - in place, also ASAP.
There’s quality on this roster. But the depth is suspect and there’s some obvious immediate as well as likely future needs from draft losses, free agency, and retirement.
This isn’t Houston. Finishing second, losing playoff games isn’t “good try!”, it’s problems to be solved. Let’s get working on them!
Rumor that Stoney might replace Hayes at Chelsea. Hmmm....
Other names so far include Harvey and Parsons.
Harvey, maybe I could see.
But Parsons? I know he was an assistant for Chelsea at one point, but he's received a quick hook at his last two gigs.
She played at Chelsea in their youth academy, again on the full team, and then was also a player manager there shortly, for a season after the previous manager left. I know she's just gone through a long emigration process to get her kids here from the UK, but I'd still not be surprised at all to see her choose to go back there by the next WSL season, which would be around Oct, 2024. EH will be finishing this season with Chelsea, so there's not a rush.
The winning team must offer bespoke ice chests. It's the only way.
WSL poaching the NWSL’s great tactical minds tsk tsk tsk
2023 NWSL Best XI First Team (listed by position, alphabetically by last name): Goalkeeper: Jane Campbell, Houston Dash – Defenders: Naomi Girma, San Diego Wave FC; Sarah Gorden, Angel City FC; Ali Krieger, NJ/NY Gotham FC; Sam Staab, Washington Spirit – Midfielders/Forwards: Sam Coffey, Portland Thorns FC; Debinha, Kansas City Current; Kerolin, North Carolina Courage; Jaedyn Shaw, San Diego Wave FC; Sophia Smith, Portland Thorns FC; Lynn Williams, NJ/NY Gotham FC
2023 NWSL Best XI Second Team (listed by position, alphabetically by last name): Goalkeeper: Kailen Sheridan, San Diego Wave FC – Defenders: Emily Fox, North Carolina Courage; Kaleigh Kurtz, North Carolina Courage; Jenna Nighswonger, NJ/NY Gotham FC; M.A. Vignola, Angel City FC – Midfielders/Forwards: Savannah DeMelo, Racing Louisville FC; Ashley Hatch, Washington Spirit; Savannah McCaskill, Angel City FC; Alex Morgan, San Diego Wave FC; Denise O’Sullivan, North Carolina Courage; Trinity Rodman, Washington Spirit
Miffed to not see Morgan Weaver and Hina up there, but two on Best XI ain't a bad thing.
Agree that Weaver should have been on the Next XI, in place of either Hatch or Rodman.
Weaver is underrated. I don't know why. That first team is stacked. But she's at least second best XI. And she really carried this team during Sophia's absence. I feel like Rodman is on there because name and hype, more than form this year.
I always see comments here about how Rodman’s overhyped and it makes me feel insane- She’s an AWESOME player who does much more than what shows up on the stat sheet. She might be the best defensive forward in the league, is constantly keyed on by defenses because the Spirit don’t really have a second creator in behind, and is always near the top in G+.
THAT SAID: Weaver had a better year than Rodman did and should have been on the second team. As should Adriana, who was also robbed.
Yeah, Rodman is excellent but playing on a team with little vision for that final 3rd. Nonetheless, she's a top player. Also agree about Adriana. Every time I watched her play, I was like, damn! How can we get her to Portland?! She's so so skilled. I can't believe she didn't make either.
For whatever reason, Rodman doesn't seem to have improved since her meteoric rookie season, and the raw numbers suggest even a bit of a backslide. Maybe it's hard to make that next leap when you started off so high?
There's a couple on there that we could say that for, I think.
My guess is Washington cratering last year has colored some of the opinions on Rodman. She still remains super talented with much of it unobtained so far. I think by the time we get to the next World Cup she's going to be at the top of her game.
If Williams (7g , 3a) made the Best XI, Weaver (7g, 4a) definitely should have made the Next Best XI and arguably should have been in the Best XI instead of Williams. Rodman (5g, 2a) should not have been on either team. Heck, Hina (6g, 3a) or Dunn (5g, 2a) could have easily replaced her in the Next Best XI.
I thought so too re: Lynn. That should've been Weaver, just based on stats. There are definitely "players that are popular" and players that don't fit that media narrative and I think Weaver comes down on the wrong side of that, unfortunately. And I think the lackluster end to the season probably denied Sugita (especially) or Dunn any individual accolades, another negative to playing for a coach that doesn't know what they're doing.
At least we can all delight in the fact that Seattle has no players in either XI lol. If they win, it'll be hilarious because they were absolutely not the best team this year.
Maybe Weaver needs to appear frequently on "Snacks", or start her own podcast.
No Weaver on the second team is outrageous! Should have been an MVP candidate!
I think Weaver is seen as all “run fast shoot hard” one-trick pony. If you don’t see her a lot you probably don’t appreciate the refinements she’s including in her game. We do, so we don’t get the exclusion.
I think she also suffers from Norrisball, which tends to overrely on Smith creating herself, so neutrals don’t see Weaver doing a lot of “team goal” things that get wingers noticed.
Equalizer has a rather indignant article about Weaver's lack of recognition. It asks the right question - Why? But has no answer.
The league figured Norris out, and from then on we were average.
And it's not just tactics or roster, but technical... passes off, sloppy giveaways in midfield. Given the direct style of play, at times I felt like I was watching Gio ball.
Injuries and absences didn't help, but every team has to deal with those. Despite a second place finish on the table and semifinal, this year seemed like a regression. No back-to-back wins since June and lopsided losses away from home with a trophy on the line, is below standard for this club.
They gave it their best last night, and the team culture is still strong. But there are clear roster issues to address and I think we need a manager who is up to it. Norris seems like a nice guy and did an admirable job as placeholder during a difficult period. But this clubs' talent and ambition demands a top class manager.
Paulson has to sell the team already. No more limbo. Either sell or don't. If not, own up to it, and then start investing in the team again. Otherwise, he's just milking it and we fall behind.
The support was fantastic last night.
Agree with all of this here. Though, it's not IF the sale is gonna happen, it's WHEN. It's already on track to be done by the end of the year and the process is already reportedly far along. Becky said last night some of the players are being looped into the process, and it's a really difficult process splitting them from the Timbers...but that she's really excited for new ownership. The wait has been a bit excruciating, but thankfully, we don't have much longer.
My hope is that it happens sooner to now than to Dec. 31st, because I'd love a new GM and head coach in there for the expansion draft on Dec. 15th, but more so, for the college draft. The timeline is very short for a proper HC search and to get them in before the expansion draft...and also, who is doing that search? KK? Is she out too? My guess is they don't NEED a new coach by the expansion draft because the club will likely just have the deals made or know which players are likely to be picked by then so there's not much work there for a head coach. But, it would be imperative they conclude a search and get the new coach in before the college draft....a date they haven't announced yet, but I think it was mid-January last time.
As usual, I suspect that at least some of this stuff is done but not yet announced. Maybe wishful thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some significant news soon after the Final.
GK -- Menges -- Sauerbrunn -- Kuikka. What's the next pass? Like 90% of the time? Kuikka infield to Coffey or Moultrie. If Menges sees an opening to the right, then it's GK -- Menges -- Kling and then infield to Coffey or Moultrie. Gotham cut off that infield pass two dozen times last night.
I get that we all hate Paulson, but the holdup on the sale isn't necessarily down to him. I think the league is very much involved and they are making darn sure the team goes to a strong committed ownership group. Sometimes that takes awhile.
It is also a complicated deal because the stadium-will the Thorns be renters, part owners, so many issues with that side of things, not surprised this is taking months.
Heath and Press bring back Re-Cap for NWSL Semifinals and Championship
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-re-cap-show/id1698132164
Nothing earth-shattering, but....
"Playoff form is a real thing, and Portland didn't look to be the team we expected them to be at this point of the season."
- "Portland had class all over the field but couldn't find a class moment."
- Hard for the higher-seeded team to remain in form while sitting for a few weeks.
- Semifinal coming after international break is disruptive for players, especially those who go off to train with their national team during their club's postseason. Smith traveled with the USWNT, while Lavelle stayed in Seattle, trained with the team, and saw minutes in the quarterfinals.
- Gotham and Reign had more energy from the outset than did Thorns and Wave.
- Compare substitution of Sugita and Kuikka at 75th with how Amoros handled substitutions situationally and strategically.
https://justwomenssports.com/reads/naomi-girma-wins-nwsl-defender-of-the-year-in-back-to-back-seasons/
Girma is now 2x DoY, in just two seasons. Wow.
The Stanford squad that had Macario, Smith, Girma, Pickett, Briede, Meyer, et al was loaded, baby. (24-1-0, 11-0-0)
Has to be one of the best college teams in history.
New Equalizer pod says Thorns have a lot of off-season questions to answer and many things to figure out, including:
- starting keeper - who is it going forward?
- coach - this one is isn't winning chess matches or pulling the right levers at the right time
- connection & composure
- where does team and club go from here? was 2023 like 2019?
- free agency
- expansion draft impacts
- ownership change as "continually told, or at least promised, by the end of the year"
- plenty of individual talent, but does everybody stick around?
- need for new ideas and ability to respond to questions, because "they haven't had the answers when they do get hit" and they don't know why they're underperforming when that happens
- ownership change as "continually told, or at least promised, by the end of the year"*
*"Which year?" unspecified.
Also under consideration: "Can Phil Neville coach two teams at once? You'll be surprised at the answer."
Of course he can! Gavin and Golub were assigned to both Timbers and Thorns, so why not Phil? On paper, he's totally qualified, having coached England women 2018-21 and culturally, he's a great fit with the Thorns because he's been an assistant for Canada this year. And, given his strong social media game of making sexist tweets, he's vintage NWSL material. How this man hasn't already been named NWSL Coach of the Decade, I have no idea.
But we still don't know if he can coach one team at once.
Interesting to hear the 2019 reference- I made the 2019/2023 comp before the semi just from a “it feels like this car is rolling off a cliff and I have an intense dread about this playoff game” perspective, but I do feel the roster situations are entirely different.
Aside from the Sinc/Menges/Kling trio, the top 6 on that 2019 team were Horan, Raso, Carpenter, Sonnett, Purce, and a perennially injured Heath. Carpenter left for Lyon (I was v upset about this). Sonnett was traded for the Smith pick in the fleecing of the decade. Raso left for Everton. Purce went to Gotham. Heath was taken in the expansion draft. Smith, Weaver, Rocky, Dunn, Becky, and Kuikka were brought in. Looking back, a remarkable overhaul from 2019-2021, even taking the COVID year into account.
This team has some questions, but mostly on the management level with the (hopefully) new coach and new ownership. Our top 6 --assuming Becky is back-- is (seemingly) locked in for at least next season with the exception of Dunn and her FA decision: Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, and Becky should all be here next year. The GK question is really the one that needs answering, but it’s really a roster that needs touching up, not an a total overhaul.
I am still torn about the yellow on Krieger.
No question Soph got mugged, and it was hardly the first time it happened to Soph, let alone any other Thorn, on the day.
But I can't see the DOGSO because although Soph was the closest Thorn to the ball and *likely* would have been the first player to it, that was a through ball put well out into open space.
Just because Soph was closest to it doesn't mean she was close to it. That ball was a good 20 or more yards ahead of her, and she would have to run it down, either beating Haught to it or Haught staying in place.
Several times yesterday, Haught came out aggressively and got to the ball first, so even though it's a DOGSO situation, I don't feel confident in saying it was a clear DOGSO. Weaver had created a 50/50 ball, and Soph would have to get to it before Haught or Haught would have to choose to stay put. Neither of those options are that clear in my mind.
While I certainly think Gotham should have been playing at least 1 player down by that point in the match (somebody should have been shown 2 yellows), I don't think a straight red would have been the right call there. Would have helped us, no doubt, but not the right call.
I think there's a gap in the LOTG that needs to be addressed with this kind of foul by Krieger. I'm seeing it more and more in the game, with rugby tackles/professional fouls and players getting a yellow based on the current LOTG.
The yellow card seems insufficient, red card disproportionate so maybe a 10 minute sin bin is more appropriate.
I also wonder if we are seeing more of these fouls due to 5 subs rules because you can let someone take a yellow and repeat 4-5 times, knowing you can sub out.
I think that's right. Gotham used their yellows strategically. I do think a couple of players could have been shown 2 yellows, but they really distributed the load as to who's turn it was to "take one for the team."
If the ball was twenty yards in front of Smith it was that far from Krieger. Fouls like that with no available play on the ball can be red cards but it would have been shocking if that happened. The referee last night seems like a nice person. She was certainly chatting up the players. But she has no clue how to manage such a big game. It was a lot to ask for her.
I thought it was yellow at the time, and if it had been our defender there is no way it's DOGSO :D But I did think it was questionable, and VAR did take a look at it. So I have to accept it as the right call. But it was close. If Sophia had broken away, it's clear DOGSO.
I think that’s exactly right. It was both far enough away from goal and had juuuust enough uncertainty about who was getting to the ball first that a red would have been the slightest bit harsh. I think the fact that it was such a cynical, blatant grab from Krieger makes it seem much worse. If the roles were reversed, would I have thought a red was warranted? Probably not.
(I actually thought Chesky was mostly decent last night. You’re right that she coulda dished out a few more cards, but she wasn’t terrible)
I agree. There was too much uncertainty in the situation for the 'obvious' portion of the DOGSO. But the blatant cynicism by Krieger is what's frustrating. Completely off-ball bear-hug tackle on a player who had taken a beating. But then I'm of the opinion that more cards for obstruction and off-ball fouls should be given. And that there needs to be some mechanism of collective punishment for backlines where the strategy is for everyone to kick the opposing star player just enough to put them off but not enough for anyone specifically to get carded.
I agree too. I want players to decide the game, and that means not allowing for WoSo to become Roller Derby.
Match report: https://rivetingpdx.com/2023/11/08/thorns-fc-like-tears-in-rain/
My final hot take prediction of the season: Mark Parsons returns for a second go and a 3rd re-boot of the roster (I saw him post "go thorns" on X during the semi). He makes a series of deals for drafts picks, picking up two starters and a crap ton of undrafted rookies. He re-hires Pierre, insuring Dunn's return. Brings in a few free agents (CB, FB, FW). In the end, we again loose at home in the semis to resurgent Chicago team.
Wow, that is hot, El Jefe. Muy Caliente!
It's spelled "loco" not caliente.
Me, being pedantic.
New owners, I presume, are hitting ctrl+alt+del but what the heck do I know?
Their form (incl. playoffs and not CC games) since that beastmode Sophia Smith Washington Spirit game at home just before the WC has been pretty abysmal: L-L-W-L-W-L-D-W-L-L
They had lost 3 of their last 5 going into playoffs. They lost 6 of their last 10. Pretty pretty poor...
That's the worst Wheel of Fortune consonant draw I've ever seen.
That is "Portland, Oregon" in Welsh.
Ha! So true
"Smith logged 105 of a possible 810 normal-time minutes in the final nine games of the regular season."
Ah yes, the end of the 2023 regular season. Thorns fans know it by its Welsh name, "LLWLWLDWLL."
And the season's end is known as "The Death of Welshy"
https://youtu.be/nwYu8Ns_DbU?t=5
https://justwomenssports.com/reads/becky-sauerbrunn-portland-thorns-free-agency-playoff-exit-2023/
Uh oh.
That’s just an aggregation of her post game quotes from Sunday. While I don’t think it’s nothing -- she’s not on the Sinc or Kling level-- we can’t expect every player to tell us they want to end their career here when asked about their future. I’d still be shocked if she left given her age, family situation, and quotes regarding the new ownership; but I suppose its possible. She can say she will “test out” free agency and still have every intent to return. If she gets a godfather offer from say, KC? Yeah, I think she’d consider it. I also think it would have to be something massive to get her out of Portland.
I also agree that she’s intentional with her words...and I think her intent was to:
1. Use free agency as a bargaining chip with the Thorns. Players do this all the time: They want to stay where they are, but they also need to have leverage for a better contract.
2. Praise the union and highlight the importance of having free agency. That absolutely is a Becky thing to do.
Completely agree on both points.
I think this is a non-story based on the one question asked from Ryan in the after game presser. Her body language and other answers seemed to indicate she wasn’t going anywhere…but, I guess who knows for sure. There’s no additional info in this story…it’s just quotes from the presser that had nothing to do with Becky’s free agency taken out of context to support the writer's narrative. Kinda shoddy journalism there imo…
Well, it's also bargaining, process, and modeling for other players.
But it's not exactly like Sinc's winking at Portland while announcing her international retirement, is it?
I think she’s saying that because she, as you say, wants to model the process for other players…but I also just think it’s because, if she does re-sign here, it will be Dec 16th after the expansion draft and keeping it intentionally ambiguous because that’s what every other club is doing with their free agents. If Becky goes elsewhere for a year during an Olympic year (where she’ll be competing to even make the roster) after having a house and partner here (and saying otherwise how much she loves the city), especially when she’s considered a leader of a team going through a whole lot of changes in 2024…then I will eat my hat lol.
Becky is very thoughtful, composed, an excellent communicator, a true leader in all respects.
She took that opportunity to provide the answer she wanted to provide.
If she didn't want to address it there and then, and put out the message she intended, there are many ways to do so that are unremarkable and befitting of the moment.
For example, "Our season just ended, and all of us are disappointed in the way it ended. That goes for my teammates, our coaching staff, the entire organization, and our incredible fans. That's where all of us are right now."
So, I don't think Becky's response was a nothingburger or not worth reporting. She didn't sidestep it or go with a cliche. She also didn't go with a "I want to finish my career as a Thorn."
I agree. I think Becky feels the PA fought hard for it and as a free agent she needs to try it out. I see her as pretty comfortable finishing her career here. But if she were given a great offer, well she might take it and who could blame her. At the presser I saw her interest in free agency as more intellectual.
https://x.com/Sportico/status/1722322285988569112?s=20
Christttt. Good for the Reign, good for the league, but the contrast to what’s happening here is so, so, stark.
It's what we had.
As a condition of the sale, they *must* go back to being "Seatle Reign FC" and revive the original logo.
Yes, my point exactly. Paulson has many sins but forcing the separation of the two clubs by being a tremendous ass is right up there with the worst.
Anyone have any Thorns trade predictions? Feels like they usually come out of nowhere-The Smith, Purce and Yaz deals off the top of my head.
I’d say, Rocky and Bixby are the two most obvious candidates, but the roster is so thin after that I don’t really see any other possibilities barring something crazy.
With the roster so thin, I'm not sure they really need to trade anything, at least in respect to the expansion draft. Rocky will likely be protected (she's contracted through 2025), and then with the +1 that we can use, we'll only lose one of the Bixby/Hubly/Beckie tier (and two of those will be the 9th and +1 so we do have some choice there, with the last left unprotected) and then, one would be picked from Betfort/Nally/Porter/et al....
I'd just roll the dice with the expansion draft and not try to make any deals, because we don't really have much to lose. Pointless to make trades for more than we'd lose if we did nothing. Leave Bixby unprotected and maybe we only lose one field player (even though I don't even think Bix would be chosen if unprotected.) I have a nagging feeling that Hubly will be left out to dry because Beckie is valued waaaay more by KK than what is reality....which would be unfortunate. We also have a Sevecke waiting in the wings (somewhere?)...did we really bring her here just to let her contract expire and to go on the waiver wire? Maybe she's some nice draft bait? But, I'm guessing as a (younger) international, she's probably better and more valuable than Hubly overall. My guess is her +1 year will be exercised, but she'll be left unprotected. So then we at least have one CB if the other is taken....I dunno. KK seems like she just makes impulsive decisions on the fly and I have no idea if there's any method to her madness.
Bixby is signed through 2024. Beckie, 2024 + 1 yr option, and Hubly, through 2024.
Now, if they're gonna try to game for the college draft? I have no idea...those are always baffling when they happen and usually aren't easily predicted. Free agents also add another angle just because we have no idea who we're losing and who stays, and makes positional predictions v hard. I also don't know what resources each expansion team holds for the college draft, and I haven't been paying attention to college ball so I've got no idea if there's someone they'd really wanna get. Anyone know if this college draft is valuable? I think we have like the 12th pick or something, so we could try to improve there....
Yeah I was thinking less in the context of the expansion draft and more in the context of random out of nowhere swaps- My thought is still that they’ll pay somebody off if they really want to keep Hubly or anyone else....maybe donate a Tegan McGrady to Bay City if needed.
Ironically, we really could have used Beckie this season, but I have no idea what influence KK will have going forward on who stays and who goes. I’m sure there will be some shenanigans regardless. Also no idea regarding the college class, though I am of the opinion that they should be done betting on the non-elite college prospects and go out and make a real splash international signing.
I am not a fan of trading Rocky - she is our only depth at the 6 if, gods forbid, Coffey goes down. Bixby could be tough - she might just hang up the gloves - and probably would have to be accompanied by a big bag o' TAM. But I'd at least entertain that if we were talking about Sam Staab, Jane Campbell, or Caprice Didasco, for example.
I am also not a fan of trading Rocky. She’s just one of our only real assets that other teams may give real return for.
I should also have included Hubly on that list- I imagine she’d be a desirable piece for many clubs, including the expansion clubs.
I could see either or both of those being offered up in expansion roster-protection deals which also bring back some assets.