One of my questions on the handball is where is the defenders body when the ball hits his hand? Is he over the line so it is hand keeping it out? Does that make a difference if that was the case?
I don't think the handball call was a good call at all. From what I saw, the arm was in line with the body. That the ref called a HB was fortunate for the Timbers, and then he compounded it by sending the player off which I don't think was warranted at all. It was really good to get the win, and perhaps it balances out other bad call during the year, but that was a ref inserting himself into the game in a bad way.
Lets hope this can be a springboard to better play, but we really only saw 30 minutes of good play in this game. We are going to need to see a lot more for me to think this is turning around.
That rule should change. Ref’s discretion would be much better. The call was borderline at best, but the sending off made it like a lawyer’s three points last night.
I totally agree on this. If the player reached out to stop the ball, its automatic. But to my untrained eye it looked like he kept his arm with his body and was just making an effort to throw his body in front of the ball. Yellow card would have made sense, the red card just felt excessive. If it happened to the Timbers I would be furious.
You can't give a yellow card for a DOGSO via handball in the box. It's explicitly in the Laws of the Game.
" A player... who commits any of the following offences is sent off:... denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence..."
As soon as you call that handball, it's a straight red and a PK.
I get that, and I suppose it is there to reduce the impact of a Ref's judgement in these situations. It really felt like the punishment was extreme for the play. The effort was amazing, and I felt like the player was unlucky for the ball to his his arm. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the team won, but it felt cheapened by the call.
In a sport rife with dumb subjective rules, the double jeopardy of red card plus penalty in that situation is probably the dumbest. I know it benefited the Timbers this time, but in my opinion it should always be one or the other - it should either be a red card OR a yellow and a penalty, not a red PLUS a penalty.
I need to go back and rewatch the second half, as I was busy explaining a lot of stuff to my newbie soccer inlaws so I missed a bunch, but I have always hated the two-penalties-on-one-play thing in that situation.
One of the MLS commentators on the wrap up stated, If the call is made for a handball there, a RED is a must. The rules state that if a handball prevents a ball, that is on target and would be a goal if not for the handball, than it must be a RED. I have looked for the actual rules, but can't haven't found that specifically stated (haven't looked that hard yet either.)I do find it interesting that there was NO context on if the natural position was part of that rule or not (hence my desire to go look.) and it was interesting that the statement was made for for the vancouver game, but he excused it for the Timbers/San Jose game. So maybe natural position is still a thing for that. If so it shouldn't have been called, but again once called, based off the comment from MLS commentators it must be a red.
I think it's not a rule so much as IFAB advice to referees (amounts to the same thing). The trouble I saw with the PK is that it looked to my eye that his arm was in line with his hip and leg, not extended. If he was magically Carson Pickett, that ball hits his leg to the same effect as what actually happened. So a tough call for San Jose, but VAR is not going to reverse it - it was not wrong so much as badly judged. Given the yellow card given for being near a diving player, this ref was brimful of bad judgment. He does, however, have a flair for the dramatic. Which was fun.
Naw, it's a rule: "A player... who commits any of the following offences is sent off:... denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence..."
It's literally the first thing listed in "sending off" offenses in the book.
I was referring (not very clearly, on rereading) to the advice about position of the hand. There is no question that the red card was the correct remedy.
That's a good point, but I just watched the replay, and it looked as though his body was still out of goal when it hit his arm (even though he was definitely headed into the goal). I think it hits his body in the field of play if his arm isn't there. Now, the ball could do a number of different things when it hits his body, including going into the goal on a deflection. Or it could bounce back to the goalie like it did (only off of his body instead of his arm). I have to assume this is the logic behind the ruling, because it wasn't in an unnatural position and he didn't make himself bigger.
I agree. I was thinking also the person that called it was the linesman so I am wondering what it looked like from down the line. Like is his arm really away from body as he is falling in and the camera angles we have doesn’t capture that? Either way I will take it after the non-called penalty’s and just jankey garbage that has gone against us this year.
the ball also looked like slight upward trajectory and arm blocked it downward, whereas body would not have blocked down so did change trajectory of ball significantly
As I said in the other thread, my main takeaway from whatever that was I watched last night is that Jonathan Rodriguez may finally be feeling comfortable, and maybe thus the floodgates are starting to open there. Watching him get service from Evander and score directly from it was delightful. Otherwise, the rest of this game...oof.
I will happily take and celebrate the win, but if Phil's idea of "major change" is starting Larrys Mabiala, this team is in even bigger coaching trouble than even I feared. Putting wallpaper over foundational cracks won't hold up a house; we'll see what happens on Saturday but the joy I'm feeling from yesterday does not yet translate into optimism.
Prove me wrong, PhilOut. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
Oh, and can I just say, those Tillamook logos look better and better every time I see them. I got irrationally happy whenever the camera went to a closeup of the players and I saw those. Best sponsor in the league by a mile. Is it possible it’s better than Alaska?
That was a hilarious and entertaining game for so many reasons. The first half I thought we actually played quite well, I thought the formation worked. We were playing with intensity and energy, and played a lot in transition. It was an open back and forth game for much of the first half. We pressed a bit and closed down passing lanes a bit better than we have in the past (still not great, but I’ll take it). Then blink, and set piece defending and Old Man Larry send us 0-2 behind! I don’t understand starting Mabiala over Eric Miller, I think Eric would work quite well in a back three. But the goals we gave up were not because of formation/system. Which is why I don’t understand why Phil abandoned it in the second half and went back to the 4-2-3-1. Now I’m gonna be honest, tinkering with the formation with this team won’t solve the issues, but I don’t know, I just don’t get the change. We looked so much worse in the second half I thought for those first 20 minutes. Much less fluid, more rigid, less intensity, just not good. It was frustrating to see the experiment last a half, and because of a few mistakes, we go back to what hasn’t worked for months? Okay…
Evander next to Chara is not something I want to see more of. I know people say he’s an 8, but I really don’t think so. He’s performed so much better as a 10. When Paredes came on and put Evander higher, he automatically got on the ball more and was more influential. He’s good on the ball anywhere he plays, but we need his talent around the 18, not defending. Or just floating around and finding the game which that spot allows him to do, and then he can go deep and get on the ball and, for example, hit an amazing 40 yard through ball to an onrushing Rodriguez. I just think the number 10 slot fits him and the team so much better. I love the pocket of space he found on Rodriguez’ first goal (and a great pass from Kamal), it was a really nice recognition to see the space and hold the ball up.
Once again, Moreno was the man running things the most consistently I felt. The dude has been giving it all on the field the last several games, and again being one of the few players consistently running off the ball when we have possession. Our off the ball movement was actually pretty decent this game but Moreno was the best. A lot of it doesn’t come off for him in the final third, but he’s like, our most consistent “almost chance creator,” if that’s a thing. I know that sounds kinda sad but I will take that over how the rest of the attack has looked as of late. And that fourth goal? That’s all him, he does so well to hold that player off and then accelerate from a standstill really quickly away from the defender
We got super lucky this game. We were getting stomped on that second half before the red card. Which I believe is a completely bogus call. If they call it it’s a red, but it shouldn’t have been called I think. His arm was right on his hip and he was actively trying to move it out of the way of the path of the ball. Natural position and ball hits his hand and his hip at the same time basically. It’s really harsh, and it bailed us out. But, it made for some entertaining soccer. That yellow on Kamal Miller on Preston Judd, who just tripped over himself?? That is just gold. Ball cleared off the line in the last second leading to a goal? Peak MLS. I was laughing my ass off the entire time. We did not deserve to win that game, but honestly with how this team has been going, I’m just happy to be feeling something. It was fun, what can I say? I hope Phil keeps experimenting with formation and tactics, because the first half was easily the best soccer we’ve played in a month. It’s a low bar to be fair
The formation really did help defensively in the run of play - there was always somebody to cover if someone screwed up, and they just seemed more organized and could play out of it. San Jose seemed befuddled. Phil must've thought, screw it, we just gotta add another defensive player, and I'm with you, why not E. Miller in that situation for Mabiala? And it mitigates some of the liability with Mosquera, who doesn't have to play as much defense. (Ironically, it still led to a 2-0 deficit - but only because of mistakes). I think it will be a good formation to throw at some teams and give them a different look. I think Phil does change things up without giving it a full chance in a lot of cases. However, he really had to do something at halftime, though, so it seemed like the right thing to do and be more offensive. The formation would have worked offensively (IMO) if it were more of a 3-4-1-2 or a 3-5-2 because it would have played to the strengths of Moreno, who could be more inside as a 10 and Antony, who could play up top. Instead Antony plays left where he has not shone particularly well, and Moreno plays right wing, and needs a gazillion touches to produce something. Defensively they could switch back to a 3-4-3. If it is a 4-2-3-1, then yes, Evander needs to play the 10, especially with a solid spine of Chara and Paredes behind him.
If you run three in the back, then you probably sacrifice Paredes.
I wouldn't mind seeing a 3-5-2:
......Rodriguez .... Antony
...Evander ................Moreno
Bravo ......Chara..........Mosquera
......Zup ....K. Miller ....Araujo
or you could take Moreno off and put Paredes in and run a 3-4-1-2 with Evander at the 10.
There are a lot of options with this team.
One thing I like about Phil is he does seem to be putting his heart and soul into this team, and I appreciate that. I really want this team to light the MLS on fire.
Tbh, I think it's *because* he tries to move the hand out of the way that it gets called. Hand ends up moving kinda weird right before the ball hits it. Pretty surprised it didn't go to VAR though.
It seemed like they changed the attack in the second half. Instead of constantly crossing the ball into the box with short Mora going against the two tall centerbacks, they finally had Moreno and others drive down the middle of the box which created those PK opportunities. All the goals came from passes in the middle not crosses. The endless crosses are so tedius.
Love the comeback (lucky or not), but for the love of all that is holy, can we PLEASE go spend on a true DP defender? The three back defense is and will always be death for us.
I'm not sure I would call that game "thoroughly entertaining". It was fun as hell for about 24 minutes, but the first 66 or so were a complete fucking slog and there were several points at which we were thinking "why are we still here? This is awful and we don't need to sit through this trash".
Crazy/lucky as this game was there were some positives. Evander/Mora/J Rod have the potential to combine really well; Phil found a good defender (we knew Zuparic was good but he was not in Phil’s plans). On the other hand we only look good offensively when we are down and desperately pushing forward and the other team is defending (game state) and that good defender wants to be out of here ASAP. And even with 3 center backs we still can’t defend set pieces and gave up 2 goals. But have to enjoy the moment of the win.
Going forward I think this team needs to accept that they are going to lose possession in bad places and be ready to recover quickly. Moreno, Anthony, Mosquera and even Evander all lose the ball or get pushed off the ball in bad places (and when they get mauled they look for the ref to call a foul instead of playing defense). Maybe that means keeping Chara back with the CBs or putting Miller in for Mosquera to start the game (when Bravo is healthy). Three CBs helps but I don’t think we have any that are fast enough to recover. Somehow the defense needs to stop giving up goals. Is it weird to be thinking a 0-0 draw against Minnesota would be a big step forward for this team?
We've only ever won 3 at Alianz Field and the Loons have won 3 out if their last 4 and tied the other against a solid LAG team. They recently tied a red hot RSL team. I would take 0-0 and run for sure!
Since from what I can tell PTFC have given up 27 goals this season - more than any other team in the League - a clean sheet 0-0 draw would definitely be a step in the right direction. Atypical for this team.
There haven't been too many signs of progress, have there? Saturday was a bit of a fluke from what I can tell...
yeah, I'm not giving Phil credit for "finding" one of the best defenders in a squad when he's been there and been that good all along. That's a thing a coach should already have known.
Exactly. He also “found” a bad/problematic/disaster of a defender in Mabiala. Seems like everyone knew about his propensity for making a mess or more every game . . . except for Phil. I hate bashing on players and I think Mabs is probably a good dude. But for all that’s holy, just don’t.
The whole Zuparic situation is strange. I wonder if there is something else going on there, because there is no reason not to be playing him. I recall he did ask to be moved at the end of last year, so perhaps there is something there? I'm just happy to see him playing again.
I think the Timbers new kit sponsor should have been USPS because we just keep mailing it in. And how on earth is Mabiala still in a Timbers kit? I could have sworn we waved him. He’s been past it for three years! Ugh.
I try to put myself in other teams shoes at times. Did we get lucky, maybe, but other teams have been lucky against us and have received fortunate calls from refs and easy goals. I also believe you make your own luck. San Jose must feel hosed but we know that feeling. Rodriquez came on and changed our luck. His attitude, urgency, is what Phil was asking from others. He tried to make things happen instead of standing around. Watching his speed or intent made me think,wow, this guy could play for Club America. He, Mora, Evander just play at another level. I thought Santi was fine and Antony was trying to create 1v1. Zuparic sacrifices himself, always has and, it sucks that this year McGraw decided to disappear. It was clear that the defense was trying to kill any free shots from the 18 yard line area and the commitment to defense was better. Too bad no one can jump on this team for corners and free kicks. Again, McGraw hurts us there by being unavailable. I think the first pen, the arm was unnatural, up, not straight down, away from the body, he wasn’t jumping. Maybe again it was luck but, in general, I think we created it and it sucks to be SJ.
Holy Diego Valeri! We’re traveling in Europe and thus not at the game. There’s a 7 hour time difference so I assumed the game was over at 2 nil. Imagine how amazed I was to wake up and see the 4-2 score! And here I had been cheering in my sleep “hey, ho, Phil must go!” Anyway, got to run to the train but do so in a much lighter mood.
Keep that cheer in your head. This game wasn't as good as the scoreline indicated and against an actual good team it would have been a disaster. A fun win, for sure, but the whole reason the Timbers were down 2-0 in the first place is because of Phil.
20-25 min of decent play doesn't absolve Phil of the last three games being an almost complete lackluster performance. Most of the team didn't put forth much effort for most of the last three games and it shows. I almost feel like this team just tries to save up the energy at the beginning of the game but not doing ANY running off the ball to get open and relying on the other team getting tired before turning on the effort.
Hey we look pretty good when we're at home playing against a bad team with 10 men.
One of my questions on the handball is where is the defenders body when the ball hits his hand? Is he over the line so it is hand keeping it out? Does that make a difference if that was the case?
I don't think the handball call was a good call at all. From what I saw, the arm was in line with the body. That the ref called a HB was fortunate for the Timbers, and then he compounded it by sending the player off which I don't think was warranted at all. It was really good to get the win, and perhaps it balances out other bad call during the year, but that was a ref inserting himself into the game in a bad way.
Lets hope this can be a springboard to better play, but we really only saw 30 minutes of good play in this game. We are going to need to see a lot more for me to think this is turning around.
I can see your point, as to the sending off though as soon as you call a handball on the line he has to be sent off.
That rule should change. Ref’s discretion would be much better. The call was borderline at best, but the sending off made it like a lawyer’s three points last night.
I totally agree on this. If the player reached out to stop the ball, its automatic. But to my untrained eye it looked like he kept his arm with his body and was just making an effort to throw his body in front of the ball. Yellow card would have made sense, the red card just felt excessive. If it happened to the Timbers I would be furious.
You can't give a yellow card for a DOGSO via handball in the box. It's explicitly in the Laws of the Game.
" A player... who commits any of the following offences is sent off:... denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence..."
As soon as you call that handball, it's a straight red and a PK.
I get that, and I suppose it is there to reduce the impact of a Ref's judgement in these situations. It really felt like the punishment was extreme for the play. The effort was amazing, and I felt like the player was unlucky for the ball to his his arm. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the team won, but it felt cheapened by the call.
In a sport rife with dumb subjective rules, the double jeopardy of red card plus penalty in that situation is probably the dumbest. I know it benefited the Timbers this time, but in my opinion it should always be one or the other - it should either be a red card OR a yellow and a penalty, not a red PLUS a penalty.
I need to go back and rewatch the second half, as I was busy explaining a lot of stuff to my newbie soccer inlaws so I missed a bunch, but I have always hated the two-penalties-on-one-play thing in that situation.
One of the MLS commentators on the wrap up stated, If the call is made for a handball there, a RED is a must. The rules state that if a handball prevents a ball, that is on target and would be a goal if not for the handball, than it must be a RED. I have looked for the actual rules, but can't haven't found that specifically stated (haven't looked that hard yet either.)I do find it interesting that there was NO context on if the natural position was part of that rule or not (hence my desire to go look.) and it was interesting that the statement was made for for the vancouver game, but he excused it for the Timbers/San Jose game. So maybe natural position is still a thing for that. If so it shouldn't have been called, but again once called, based off the comment from MLS commentators it must be a red.
I think it's not a rule so much as IFAB advice to referees (amounts to the same thing). The trouble I saw with the PK is that it looked to my eye that his arm was in line with his hip and leg, not extended. If he was magically Carson Pickett, that ball hits his leg to the same effect as what actually happened. So a tough call for San Jose, but VAR is not going to reverse it - it was not wrong so much as badly judged. Given the yellow card given for being near a diving player, this ref was brimful of bad judgment. He does, however, have a flair for the dramatic. Which was fun.
Naw, it's a rule: "A player... who commits any of the following offences is sent off:... denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence..."
It's literally the first thing listed in "sending off" offenses in the book.
I was referring (not very clearly, on rereading) to the advice about position of the hand. There is no question that the red card was the correct remedy.
That's a good point, but I just watched the replay, and it looked as though his body was still out of goal when it hit his arm (even though he was definitely headed into the goal). I think it hits his body in the field of play if his arm isn't there. Now, the ball could do a number of different things when it hits his body, including going into the goal on a deflection. Or it could bounce back to the goalie like it did (only off of his body instead of his arm). I have to assume this is the logic behind the ruling, because it wasn't in an unnatural position and he didn't make himself bigger.
I agree. I was thinking also the person that called it was the linesman so I am wondering what it looked like from down the line. Like is his arm really away from body as he is falling in and the camera angles we have doesn’t capture that? Either way I will take it after the non-called penalty’s and just jankey garbage that has gone against us this year.
the ball also looked like slight upward trajectory and arm blocked it downward, whereas body would not have blocked down so did change trajectory of ball significantly
Is a win that feels like a draw a thing? Cuz there's a DEEP exhale of relief but not a whole lot of joy in this win.
In the moment, in the stadium, it was indeed sheer joy.
But I think we can all acknowledge that we aren't the least bit out of the woods and relief has not arrived.
As I said in the other thread, my main takeaway from whatever that was I watched last night is that Jonathan Rodriguez may finally be feeling comfortable, and maybe thus the floodgates are starting to open there. Watching him get service from Evander and score directly from it was delightful. Otherwise, the rest of this game...oof.
I will happily take and celebrate the win, but if Phil's idea of "major change" is starting Larrys Mabiala, this team is in even bigger coaching trouble than even I feared. Putting wallpaper over foundational cracks won't hold up a house; we'll see what happens on Saturday but the joy I'm feeling from yesterday does not yet translate into optimism.
Prove me wrong, PhilOut. Prove me wrong. I dare you.
Since no one else brought it up, I want to give props to the Unipiper's comeback performance.
Oh, and can I just say, those Tillamook logos look better and better every time I see them. I got irrationally happy whenever the camera went to a closeup of the players and I saw those. Best sponsor in the league by a mile. Is it possible it’s better than Alaska?
That was a hilarious and entertaining game for so many reasons. The first half I thought we actually played quite well, I thought the formation worked. We were playing with intensity and energy, and played a lot in transition. It was an open back and forth game for much of the first half. We pressed a bit and closed down passing lanes a bit better than we have in the past (still not great, but I’ll take it). Then blink, and set piece defending and Old Man Larry send us 0-2 behind! I don’t understand starting Mabiala over Eric Miller, I think Eric would work quite well in a back three. But the goals we gave up were not because of formation/system. Which is why I don’t understand why Phil abandoned it in the second half and went back to the 4-2-3-1. Now I’m gonna be honest, tinkering with the formation with this team won’t solve the issues, but I don’t know, I just don’t get the change. We looked so much worse in the second half I thought for those first 20 minutes. Much less fluid, more rigid, less intensity, just not good. It was frustrating to see the experiment last a half, and because of a few mistakes, we go back to what hasn’t worked for months? Okay…
Evander next to Chara is not something I want to see more of. I know people say he’s an 8, but I really don’t think so. He’s performed so much better as a 10. When Paredes came on and put Evander higher, he automatically got on the ball more and was more influential. He’s good on the ball anywhere he plays, but we need his talent around the 18, not defending. Or just floating around and finding the game which that spot allows him to do, and then he can go deep and get on the ball and, for example, hit an amazing 40 yard through ball to an onrushing Rodriguez. I just think the number 10 slot fits him and the team so much better. I love the pocket of space he found on Rodriguez’ first goal (and a great pass from Kamal), it was a really nice recognition to see the space and hold the ball up.
Once again, Moreno was the man running things the most consistently I felt. The dude has been giving it all on the field the last several games, and again being one of the few players consistently running off the ball when we have possession. Our off the ball movement was actually pretty decent this game but Moreno was the best. A lot of it doesn’t come off for him in the final third, but he’s like, our most consistent “almost chance creator,” if that’s a thing. I know that sounds kinda sad but I will take that over how the rest of the attack has looked as of late. And that fourth goal? That’s all him, he does so well to hold that player off and then accelerate from a standstill really quickly away from the defender
We got super lucky this game. We were getting stomped on that second half before the red card. Which I believe is a completely bogus call. If they call it it’s a red, but it shouldn’t have been called I think. His arm was right on his hip and he was actively trying to move it out of the way of the path of the ball. Natural position and ball hits his hand and his hip at the same time basically. It’s really harsh, and it bailed us out. But, it made for some entertaining soccer. That yellow on Kamal Miller on Preston Judd, who just tripped over himself?? That is just gold. Ball cleared off the line in the last second leading to a goal? Peak MLS. I was laughing my ass off the entire time. We did not deserve to win that game, but honestly with how this team has been going, I’m just happy to be feeling something. It was fun, what can I say? I hope Phil keeps experimenting with formation and tactics, because the first half was easily the best soccer we’ve played in a month. It’s a low bar to be fair
The formation really did help defensively in the run of play - there was always somebody to cover if someone screwed up, and they just seemed more organized and could play out of it. San Jose seemed befuddled. Phil must've thought, screw it, we just gotta add another defensive player, and I'm with you, why not E. Miller in that situation for Mabiala? And it mitigates some of the liability with Mosquera, who doesn't have to play as much defense. (Ironically, it still led to a 2-0 deficit - but only because of mistakes). I think it will be a good formation to throw at some teams and give them a different look. I think Phil does change things up without giving it a full chance in a lot of cases. However, he really had to do something at halftime, though, so it seemed like the right thing to do and be more offensive. The formation would have worked offensively (IMO) if it were more of a 3-4-1-2 or a 3-5-2 because it would have played to the strengths of Moreno, who could be more inside as a 10 and Antony, who could play up top. Instead Antony plays left where he has not shone particularly well, and Moreno plays right wing, and needs a gazillion touches to produce something. Defensively they could switch back to a 3-4-3. If it is a 4-2-3-1, then yes, Evander needs to play the 10, especially with a solid spine of Chara and Paredes behind him.
If you run three in the back, then you probably sacrifice Paredes.
I wouldn't mind seeing a 3-5-2:
......Rodriguez .... Antony
...Evander ................Moreno
Bravo ......Chara..........Mosquera
......Zup ....K. Miller ....Araujo
or you could take Moreno off and put Paredes in and run a 3-4-1-2 with Evander at the 10.
There are a lot of options with this team.
One thing I like about Phil is he does seem to be putting his heart and soul into this team, and I appreciate that. I really want this team to light the MLS on fire.
Tbh, I think it's *because* he tries to move the hand out of the way that it gets called. Hand ends up moving kinda weird right before the ball hits it. Pretty surprised it didn't go to VAR though.
It seemed like they changed the attack in the second half. Instead of constantly crossing the ball into the box with short Mora going against the two tall centerbacks, they finally had Moreno and others drive down the middle of the box which created those PK opportunities. All the goals came from passes in the middle not crosses. The endless crosses are so tedius.
Love the comeback (lucky or not), but for the love of all that is holy, can we PLEASE go spend on a true DP defender? The three back defense is and will always be death for us.
Phil has some good attackers and no clue.
But somehow it leads to lots of fun games. Whacky. Super lucky last night. Thoroughly entertaining.
I'm not sure I would call that game "thoroughly entertaining". It was fun as hell for about 24 minutes, but the first 66 or so were a complete fucking slog and there were several points at which we were thinking "why are we still here? This is awful and we don't need to sit through this trash".
It was the soft, soft, soft part before the loud—like a 90s rock song. All part of the experience. The palette-subduer.
As long as it's more Mudhoney than Creed, I'll take it.
Crazy/lucky as this game was there were some positives. Evander/Mora/J Rod have the potential to combine really well; Phil found a good defender (we knew Zuparic was good but he was not in Phil’s plans). On the other hand we only look good offensively when we are down and desperately pushing forward and the other team is defending (game state) and that good defender wants to be out of here ASAP. And even with 3 center backs we still can’t defend set pieces and gave up 2 goals. But have to enjoy the moment of the win.
Going forward I think this team needs to accept that they are going to lose possession in bad places and be ready to recover quickly. Moreno, Anthony, Mosquera and even Evander all lose the ball or get pushed off the ball in bad places (and when they get mauled they look for the ref to call a foul instead of playing defense). Maybe that means keeping Chara back with the CBs or putting Miller in for Mosquera to start the game (when Bravo is healthy). Three CBs helps but I don’t think we have any that are fast enough to recover. Somehow the defense needs to stop giving up goals. Is it weird to be thinking a 0-0 draw against Minnesota would be a big step forward for this team?
We've only ever won 3 at Alianz Field and the Loons have won 3 out if their last 4 and tied the other against a solid LAG team. They recently tied a red hot RSL team. I would take 0-0 and run for sure!
Since from what I can tell PTFC have given up 27 goals this season - more than any other team in the League - a clean sheet 0-0 draw would definitely be a step in the right direction. Atypical for this team.
There haven't been too many signs of progress, have there? Saturday was a bit of a fluke from what I can tell...
yeah, I'm not giving Phil credit for "finding" one of the best defenders in a squad when he's been there and been that good all along. That's a thing a coach should already have known.
Exactly. He also “found” a bad/problematic/disaster of a defender in Mabiala. Seems like everyone knew about his propensity for making a mess or more every game . . . except for Phil. I hate bashing on players and I think Mabs is probably a good dude. But for all that’s holy, just don’t.
The whole Zuparic situation is strange. I wonder if there is something else going on there, because there is no reason not to be playing him. I recall he did ask to be moved at the end of last year, so perhaps there is something there? I'm just happy to see him playing again.
I think the Timbers new kit sponsor should have been USPS because we just keep mailing it in. And how on earth is Mabiala still in a Timbers kit? I could have sworn we waved him. He’s been past it for three years! Ugh.
I speak mostly of the first half, of course.
I try to put myself in other teams shoes at times. Did we get lucky, maybe, but other teams have been lucky against us and have received fortunate calls from refs and easy goals. I also believe you make your own luck. San Jose must feel hosed but we know that feeling. Rodriquez came on and changed our luck. His attitude, urgency, is what Phil was asking from others. He tried to make things happen instead of standing around. Watching his speed or intent made me think,wow, this guy could play for Club America. He, Mora, Evander just play at another level. I thought Santi was fine and Antony was trying to create 1v1. Zuparic sacrifices himself, always has and, it sucks that this year McGraw decided to disappear. It was clear that the defense was trying to kill any free shots from the 18 yard line area and the commitment to defense was better. Too bad no one can jump on this team for corners and free kicks. Again, McGraw hurts us there by being unavailable. I think the first pen, the arm was unnatural, up, not straight down, away from the body, he wasn’t jumping. Maybe again it was luck but, in general, I think we created it and it sucks to be SJ.
"Rodriquez came on and changed our luck"
Should have started, but for the tactical genius that was Phil Neville's Major Changes, but whatever.
"He tried to make things happen instead of standing around."
He and Evander both. All night in Evander's case.
"Watching his speed or intent made me think,wow, this guy could play for Club America."
Not sure if serious, but...he literally did? For several years.
"it sucks to be SJ."
in so many ways.
I interpret the comment about Club America as being more like "we hadn't seen Club America level play from him but he showed that tonight"
Holy Diego Valeri! We’re traveling in Europe and thus not at the game. There’s a 7 hour time difference so I assumed the game was over at 2 nil. Imagine how amazed I was to wake up and see the 4-2 score! And here I had been cheering in my sleep “hey, ho, Phil must go!” Anyway, got to run to the train but do so in a much lighter mood.
Keep that cheer in your head. This game wasn't as good as the scoreline indicated and against an actual good team it would have been a disaster. A fun win, for sure, but the whole reason the Timbers were down 2-0 in the first place is because of Phil.
20-25 min of decent play doesn't absolve Phil of the last three games being an almost complete lackluster performance. Most of the team didn't put forth much effort for most of the last three games and it shows. I almost feel like this team just tries to save up the energy at the beginning of the game but not doing ANY running off the ball to get open and relying on the other team getting tired before turning on the effort.
It was a super fun watch. More WTF than Hell Yeah. But a game I may re-watch myself. Phil should probably go, but I’ll miss the madness.