Yes. The games are super enjoyable. The chemistry on the attack keeps getting better and better. We have a lot of attacking talent that are fun to watch.
I just feel like Evander is capable of stepping up and dominating, but just seems like he’s still kind of half-assing it much of the time or trying to make those cutesy plays
Evander is pretty much never "half-assing it". Watch him through the whole game, and especially when the Timbers are struggling. He's one of the only guys out there actively trying to make things happen. He's all over the place; yesterday he made several plays almost as a CDM in addition to his usual creator-type role. This team has a lot of issues, but Evander is absolutely not one of them.
This off season, I was extremely excited about the acquisitions of both Kamal Miller and Maxime Crepeau, because I thought they were significant upgrades at positions of need. I thought Miller was a very underrated defender who would come here and immediately upgrade a defense badly in need of said upgrade.
I could not have been more wrong.
Crepeau is...decent. I'm still thinking Pantemis might be a better starter, but I'm not giving up on Crepeau just yet, because he's not a liability overall (still not sure why he started tonight after Pantemis bossed things on Wed, but that's a nit I don't need to pick). But man, was I wrong about K Miller. He is just not as good as I thought he was. Tonight was a microcosm of who he is as a player, and not at all in a good way. I was annoyed when I saw Phil had him back in his natural position, after Miller played well out on the left the last couple games, because why tinker with success? But even that move doesn't explain why Miller had the game he had.
Overall, this game could have been a whole lot worse, and but for a crossbar, actually could have been better; but the Timbers are a long way from being as fixed as they looked in the last couple games, and it boggles the mind as to why that might be, after how good they looked for those games. They regressed to the mean haaaaaaaard tonight
Crepeau and Miller are not the problems, though I agree they're not as good as advertised. Mosquera is a glaring liability, defensively and offensively. And while it was great to have Bravo back as a starter, he gave up the ball repeatedly. It also looks like he injured his foot again. Moreno? Give me Asprilla instead, especially his energy and size in the box.
Also, Houston's stellar passing and positioning are exactly what the Timbers lack. The Timbers have scored 32 goals in 17 games (compared to 45 in the entire MLS season last year). Imagine how better passing and fewer turnovers would add up to more goals and better defense.
That second was all Miller. Limited pressure passes right the dynamo player, one pass and they are in on goal. You can't just give the ball away that easily in that position.
I feel like Miller has been great this year, but he’s good for a few blunders every game, which is what I heard from a few Miami fans. I really like him, he provides a lot with his defense and passing. Maybe it’s just me
My issue with Miller is that he is really slow. I think he is a really good defender when he can face up a player, but get him in space and Miller is simply toast. And that glaring problem limits who the team can put on the field with him. You have to have either Zuparic or Araujo on the field next to him because the other two (McGraw and Mabiala) are also slow. You add in the high line that we played early in the season and Miller was a liability. We are playing better because of the defensive lineup bein put out there. But any team with a scouting department should be able to attack this weakness.
If we're grading players on a 1-10 scale, I was expecting him to be about an 8 or so, from what I saw of him the last couple seasons, and I've seen him consistently be about a 5 this season. Certainly not the worst defender in the world, but I feel like he has taken a step back this season, instead of the step forward I was hoping he'd take. I'm not ready to say he should be gone, but he's not the upgrade I was hoping for.
Whether that's the system he's in or his skillset, I'm not sure, and I think he's definitely capable of better play. He's just not producing consistently enough at this point and it's frustrating, particularly those blunders, because I also really like him and I hope he finds that consistency.
Pantemis is clearly the better Keeper of the two. Crepeau too many times is slow to react and leaving one side of the goal wide open is happening too many times. Miller is not even worth talking about, and Mosquera is lost
They regressed because of the personnel on the field. Just look at who started and who was on the bench from the previous game. The only positive addition was Mora as a starter. I think it might have worked out ok had Pantemis started.
First goal - Crepeau was slow off his line and very slow to react. He needs to own the box and cut down that angle, just like Pantemis did on that poor clearance sequence from Mosquera in Austin game when Driussi almost scored.
Second goal - Longer arms, quicker reaction to push that out. I think that was saveable.
What a clown show. @RCTEYEDEE: You were right not to trust Phil. I don't know if I ever can again. He built up my trust with two good games, and then he pisses it all away.
1. Araujo plays himself onto the field with outstanding play for the past three or four games and for some reason doesn't start.
2. Ayala and Antony both look fresh coming off the bench, and for some reason, don't start.
3. You take Mora off at half? What?
4. You start Chara three games in one week. Not wise.
5. Pantemis, who you called the best player on the field last game, who pitches a shutout, doesn't start?
Phil, why are you changing something that works? Why do coaches mess with success?
Yep! These were all questions that were going through our entire section throughout the game. I'm still not sure what's up with Mora - he didn't sit on the bench that I saw in the second half, so he may be injured, that might be something to keep an eye on, but all those other decisions...what the actual fuck, Phil. I get that it's a three game week, and you need to keep guys somewhat fresh, but that does not even start to explain, for one, why Pantemis didn't start tonight, particularly since he'll start the next couple games since Crepeau's on international duty. Crepeau's a decent keeper, but Pantemis earned the right to start tonight after what he did Weds, I thought.
And the rest of those points are equally baffling, and all contribute to why I can't and won't trust Neville as a coach at this point.
I'm not big on Antony. I just don't know what he gives the Timbers? He's quick, gets in good space, however he has big touches or he just loses the ball to a defender who stays patient.
I'll give Phil credit for rotating the team over the last 3 games. Better than playing the same XI for 3 games and waiting till the 80 minute to use some subs, then wondering why someone is out for 6 months.
Mora injured is the only thing that makes sense. I hate to crap on Crepeau, but he gives up two goals a game every game. Not good, not going to win games that way.
Agree. Crepeau and Miller were touted as elite defensive addition this year and both (imho) have sorely disappointed. I’ll give Crepeau a lot more leeway, however, due to the absolutely atrocity of a defense this team fields night in night out. FFS Mosquera and Miller were both awful again tonight. Zup is literally the only one worth keeping.
Yeah, I still think Crepeau is an upgrade on Ivacic, even as I think that Pantemis should have started last night and will hopefully take the starting job permanently in the next couple weeks in Crepeau's absence. But Miller...I haven't whiffed that badly on my estimation of a player since I thought that Danny Welbeck would be a 20 goal/season scorer when he moved to Arsenal from Manchester United.
Zuparic is putting in yet another solid season and it's frustrating how much of his good work is being wasted.
I do not get all the Crepeau “hate”. Pantemis had a good game yes defensively. Pantemis distribution though? It is a good thing Austin was so inept as I don’t recall Pantemis springing us for a goal. Crepau on the other hand is partially responsible on that second goal as his distribution caused the foul to be drawn. I think of Miller the same way. Yes defensively Zupric does a good job, but offensively he brings little to nothing. He isn’t hitting the pass to break lines.
I don't hate Crepeau, at all. I did think he would be better than he's been since he arrived, but he hasn't been actively bad - he's just been less commanding of his area than he was at his peak with LAFC. Pantemis has been a very strong surprise, though, and I do think he has a chance to steal the starting job if he plays well enough while Crepeau's gone.
But even if he doesn't, I'm content with Crepeau remaining as the starter - both current keepers are a big upgrade over Ivacic and Bingham.
"Yes defensively Zupric does a good job, but offensively he brings little to nothing."
I'm just old-school enough in my soccer fandom that I don't really care about this. A defender's job to me, primarily, is to defend. Anything else is a bonus. And Zup is very good at his primary job.
I thought we were told that Pantemis got the start the other night so that he and the D could get to know each other with Crepeau soon being gone for a few games. Seems that same rationale would have applied last night. Like JRod's game last night. Seemed to really be going after it. I am concerned about my guy Bravo's health. Looked like he wasn't feeling great. Loved the energy that Focaca brought late.
Yeah, I'd love to say the choice to go back to Crepeau was baffling, but most of Phil's choices are baffling, so it's of a piece with the way he manages I guess.
The one fun thing throughout this whole season is that the two players that can be counted on to bring 100% of themselves every single game have been Evander and, since he arrived, JR. Both of them singlehandedly want to will this team to win, every minute of every game they play, and it's fantastic to watch.
Man, if we can fix the defensive problems, this team would be on top of the table. Our attacking players are very good and we have a lot of depth in that area. Hopefully we'll add some talent on D during the summer transfer window. I really enjoy watching this team when they play hard. Ayala was like a whirling dervish out there last night.
Good soccer fortune always evens out. Timbers had some earlier, all gone this game. Two crossbars at the end, Ayala had JR for the winner and launches the stupidest shot II’ve seen all year. If I could reached inside my tv, I’d have strangled him.
No, no. Read the post. Deep in stoppage. Ayala breaking, JR on the left, onside. A simple pass and JR is in on the keeper. And don’t call him Cabecita, he doesn’t care for it.
Not Timbers-related, but in case anybody ever doubts that Atlanta (along with S**ttle) are the most petty teams in the league, they won't even acknowledge Charlotte exists in their game today, refusing to put their team name on the scoreboard, and also cutting off the city name on the team logo:
Crepeau and Miller are good if we don’t play a high defensive line. Neither of them are quick enough or good enough with the ball at their feet: Neville should know this. That he apparently doesn’t is further testament to how stubbornly oblivious he is. Miller is built for a 3-back. Neville plays the wrong system, strategy, and tactics for the players he picks, and picks the wrong players for the strategy, system, and tactics.
I don’t want a back 3 in the grand scheme of things. I don’t think we are built for it. I don’t want to work toward it. I generally don’t like it as a matter of personal preference. But it’s about the only way to get our best players on the pitch, not cough up goals, and score. Or, the Christmas tree with the right midfield that he’s never tried.
Rotating players for health and fitness is the only excuse for this starting XI right now. But I’m afraid that’s not the entire reason for Neville’s decision. I fear he’s a just kind of thick.
7 points in 3 games looks great on paper, costly if there’s a win on the road in Texas. But a draw at home against Houston right now isn’t great. Giving up an early goal is bad. We have yet to play consistently well for 90 minutes, especially against good teams, and we have the same problems we always do. I haven’t seen any post-match comments yet, so I don’t know what the excuses and explanations are. I thought we’d win this one ugly. Instead we drew ugly. I continue to be impressed by our DPs but we shouldn’t be that reliant on them. The rest of the team isn’t as bad as Phil makes them look. No idea how he earned so much trust and why anyone defends him.
“You wanna coach the team? It can’t be much worse.”
How does Neville not see this?
I don’t like the idea of a back 3 and railed against it since preseason but even I’ve come around as I’ve seen the reality of the situation. I still think a back 4 could work in a Christmas tree, with better upfield defensive tactics, or faster CBs, but a 3-back is a stopgap at least. It lets Bravo and Mosquera play to their strengths and gives Evander, Mora, and Rodriguez space to find each other. I thought Antony and Moreno would be more ready. I didn’t realize how slow our CBs are and that Crepeau isn’t a sweeper keeper. I didn’t imagine we’d cede so much time and space on the ball until our final third. I assumed too much and was wrong.
The 4-2-3-1 can work with two offensively-minded fullbacks, but you need a specific combo in the "2" part of that formation. Specifically, you need a regista and a box-to-box midfielder to support both ends of the field. The best example of this I'm in my mind was the Davide Pizzaro-Danielle DeRossi combo in the late 2000's AS Roma teams. I think Paredes can play that DDR role, but unless we can reverse time on Chara, I don't know who we have that can play as a proper regista. The big thing for me is that we simply don't have the quality at CB.
I'm afraid Paredes doesn't have it in him. I've wanted him to evolve into that kind of 6 but it doesn't seem like we've been trying to mold him that way, even as he's improved at 8. Ayala gives me some optimism but I'm starting to feel like he's the 8 we need and that we're going to have to use a DP slot to replace Chara. Eyrk would work better with a DP 6 behind him as well but he's still not the best in possession. Regardless, our CBs and keepers aren't technical and quick enough for the tactics.
We have a lot of talent but not to fit the style Neville appears to want. He coaches like he's got Premier League talent. I never thought of that kind of thing being an issue with international coaches but I think it may be. They take technique for granted and don't consider the physicality and sloppiness of the league, or the climate and travel constraints. They also don't seem to adapt well to the drop-off in talent from DPs to the rest of the squad, or starters to subs.
"No idea how he earned so much trust and why anyone defends him."
He's the classic example of what Americans have wildly overromanticized as a skillset in soccer. I mean, first of all, credit where it's due - Phil Neville was definitely a good player on some amazingly good Manchester United teams in the 90's. That is unquestionable.
But so many people in and around the game in this country just fall all over themselves because "HE PLAYED IN ENGLAND ON SOME REALLY GOOD TEAMS FROM WHEN I FIRST FELL IN LOVE WITH SOCCER AND HE HAS A WELL KNOWN NAME FROM THEN", as if that's a qualification for coaching, and then just don't bother wondering whether he's actually good at coaching or not.
He was handed his first coaching job despite having basically no coaching experience, mostly because he was Phil Neville, and he's Peter Principled his way here, and now we get to deal with him every week for the foreseeable future.
Would you like to have an actual substantive discussion about Neville's coaching - in this game or any game - or would you just like to try to paint me as the outlier or only person on this site who has that opinion? I'd be happy to have an actual discussion about the merits of his abilities if you would like to, and I'm absolutely open to having my mind changed about him if you have something of substance to say, but if all you want to do is snark, there's not much point in engaging with you.
Right now? No one, we are stuck with Phil for at least this season and probably next, unless things go catastrophically wrong and they lose literally every game from now until October. And for the record, for the multiple people on here who seem to think I exist only to hate Phil Neville: I DO NOT WANT THAT.
But once Gio was fired, there was a list of candidates floated as potential replacements. That list included Neville, and names like Dome Torrent, Ezra Hendrickson, Robin Fraser, Miles Joseph, John Herdman, Danny Cruz, and a few others.
My personal wish, because I want the Timbers to be one of the dominant tier of teams in MLS, was that they'd show some ambition and back the money truck up to Jesse Marsch's door and ask "HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU WANT", and also give him some roster control, but I knew MP would never let that happen. Of the list of probable candidates, I would have preferred they go with Torrent, Herdman, or Joseph.
Neville showed no real managerial skill with the England women's team (and wasn't particularly well liked, either), didn't do much of note with a Miami team with a very in-flux roster (sound familiar?), and his history gave no reason to believe he'd do any better here. He was easily the least impressive name on the list of potential managers, but he was the Biggest Name Because He's English, and I think that put stars in a lot of front office people's eyes.
We already waived Ivavic. Unless a rule change in the summer window gives us a chance to waive another, we can’t amnesty Mabiala. It doesn’t make sense anyway because he’s out of contract at the end of this season. If previously argued to use a second amnesty in Zuparic. Now he’s arguably out best CB. Zac? He’s got trade or sale value. And apparently we need him for international breaks. He’s also cheap. And if we go three at the back we need more depth.
If we play a 3-back or a Christmas tree, Antony and Moreno get more time to develop with spot starts, sub on, and rotation minutes based on the schedule and game state. They both have upside. I don’t like either formation. I can see viewing them as a capitulation. But conceding goals is capitulation in another sense and using tactics that don’t work and have little prospects with the current roster is stubbornly arrogant and self-defeating.
I’m looking at the 8 spot for a DP now. If Ayala moves into the 6 role to replace Chara, neither Paredes or Williamson have consistently shown themselves good enough in possession to be the 8 in our system. Evander has come into his own as a 10 or I’d say just move him back to his original position and sign someone who has been a successful 10.
Unless the DP/U22 rules really do change, we can only sign a young DP on this window. We also need to be mindful that Mora and Rodriguez are both 30ish. I haven’t seen us have much success developing players in general, especially young attacking players, so I’m wary of trying to groom a successor for either of them but we don’t have many options barring a rule change.
Unless we waive, sell, or trade the right players, we only have one senior roster spot open. Williamson is on a HG contract. Paredes has sale or trade value. Apparently Moreno has some interest. As much as I like certain players and don’t actually trust Ned and Neville to make smart roster moves, we should take good offers and let the players have better opportunities. I’d be more confident in N&N if they didn’t keep insisting Rodriguez is a lone striker and (despite his success there) we hadn’t brought Evander in to be a 10, among other things.
MLS actually did change the amnesty rule in April, and teams can amnesty two players a season. At this point, though, an amnesty is prorated, I believe - an off-season amnesty gives a full season's cap space and an in-season one only gives a half-season's worth (with the accompanying salary still being paid, as was always the case). But there is the flexibility for one more buyout if they want to do it.
The presumed rule change was reported on in April but isn't official yet. It doesn't matter much because we can't bring in new players until the summer transfer window anyway.
My understanding is amnesty doesn't alleviate cap space, only roster space, until a player signs a contract with a new team.
And as I've always understood it (this article isn't 100% clear on it), the amnesty rule does immediately free up cap space, but the team who releases the player is still on the hook for the player's salary until that player signs for another team. So it is a costly move from an ownership standpoint, but it does give a team flexibility to move on from a roster-building point of view.
"Semi-Guaranteed Players waived on or after the Contract Guarantee Date and Guaranteed Players waived anytime, and who clear Waivers (i.e., not picked up by another club), will continue to have their respective Salary Budget Charges count against the applicable Club Salary Budgets."
A thing that discourages me about the idea of Ned going out and signing defenders that fit Neville’s system is that Neville brought in Kamal and Crepeau, who don’t fit his system, and that he seems to be completely oblivious to this. A faster right centerback would help. None of our defenders are bad, per se, except arguably Mosquera with respect to the extent he’s expected to defend. We just aren’t playing to their strengths and weaknesses. Phil doesn’t have us challenging opponents farther up the pitch so, especially when we play a high line, we can get beat by a press or counter. I may have seen some improvements in upfield defense but I’m not convinced it isn’t just players saying, “fuck this” and trying. There’s some video from training where Phil specifically says he doesn’t want them going into challenges one v one. A player isn’t always going to have the luxury to double team. If one of their teammates moves to assist them, they’re probably leaving someone else open. Not only have we not consistently been stepping to challenges to trying to win the ball back, we haven’t been moving to block passing lanes. When we are in possession, we still too often don’t have good off-the-ball movement. The DPs seem to be finding their own rhythm and chemistry at least. Whenever it seems like we’ve improved, Neville changes something that seemed like part of the fix before. Dude is flailing. But he’s confident, which many find convincing.
Evander is full-on league class. There were flashes, but it wasn’t clear last year. And it hasn’t stopped or stalled all year.
This season has been disappointing. But as far as entertaining games (independent of results) go, it has exceeded any reasonable expectation.
Two good reasons to watch it all.
Yes. The games are super enjoyable. The chemistry on the attack keeps getting better and better. We have a lot of attacking talent that are fun to watch.
I thought he was trying to hard to make pretty plays last night. Half of those almost-moments he needed to just shoot the ball FFS
True. He does get a little too cheeky at times, but I'll take it.
I just feel like Evander is capable of stepping up and dominating, but just seems like he’s still kind of half-assing it much of the time or trying to make those cutesy plays
Evander is pretty much never "half-assing it". Watch him through the whole game, and especially when the Timbers are struggling. He's one of the only guys out there actively trying to make things happen. He's all over the place; yesterday he made several plays almost as a CDM in addition to his usual creator-type role. This team has a lot of issues, but Evander is absolutely not one of them.
This off season, I was extremely excited about the acquisitions of both Kamal Miller and Maxime Crepeau, because I thought they were significant upgrades at positions of need. I thought Miller was a very underrated defender who would come here and immediately upgrade a defense badly in need of said upgrade.
I could not have been more wrong.
Crepeau is...decent. I'm still thinking Pantemis might be a better starter, but I'm not giving up on Crepeau just yet, because he's not a liability overall (still not sure why he started tonight after Pantemis bossed things on Wed, but that's a nit I don't need to pick). But man, was I wrong about K Miller. He is just not as good as I thought he was. Tonight was a microcosm of who he is as a player, and not at all in a good way. I was annoyed when I saw Phil had him back in his natural position, after Miller played well out on the left the last couple games, because why tinker with success? But even that move doesn't explain why Miller had the game he had.
Overall, this game could have been a whole lot worse, and but for a crossbar, actually could have been better; but the Timbers are a long way from being as fixed as they looked in the last couple games, and it boggles the mind as to why that might be, after how good they looked for those games. They regressed to the mean haaaaaaaard tonight
Crepeau and Miller are not the problems, though I agree they're not as good as advertised. Mosquera is a glaring liability, defensively and offensively. And while it was great to have Bravo back as a starter, he gave up the ball repeatedly. It also looks like he injured his foot again. Moreno? Give me Asprilla instead, especially his energy and size in the box.
Also, Houston's stellar passing and positioning are exactly what the Timbers lack. The Timbers have scored 32 goals in 17 games (compared to 45 in the entire MLS season last year). Imagine how better passing and fewer turnovers would add up to more goals and better defense.
That second was all Miller. Limited pressure passes right the dynamo player, one pass and they are in on goal. You can't just give the ball away that easily in that position.
that second goal was a tough one to watch. PTFC looked like freakin road cones.
The clue on Miller was Inter didn't want him and for a significant part of last season, he was part of the leagues worse defense.
I feel like Miller has been great this year, but he’s good for a few blunders every game, which is what I heard from a few Miami fans. I really like him, he provides a lot with his defense and passing. Maybe it’s just me
My issue with Miller is that he is really slow. I think he is a really good defender when he can face up a player, but get him in space and Miller is simply toast. And that glaring problem limits who the team can put on the field with him. You have to have either Zuparic or Araujo on the field next to him because the other two (McGraw and Mabiala) are also slow. You add in the high line that we played early in the season and Miller was a liability. We are playing better because of the defensive lineup bein put out there. But any team with a scouting department should be able to attack this weakness.
If we're grading players on a 1-10 scale, I was expecting him to be about an 8 or so, from what I saw of him the last couple seasons, and I've seen him consistently be about a 5 this season. Certainly not the worst defender in the world, but I feel like he has taken a step back this season, instead of the step forward I was hoping he'd take. I'm not ready to say he should be gone, but he's not the upgrade I was hoping for.
Whether that's the system he's in or his skillset, I'm not sure, and I think he's definitely capable of better play. He's just not producing consistently enough at this point and it's frustrating, particularly those blunders, because I also really like him and I hope he finds that consistency.
Pantemis is clearly the better Keeper of the two. Crepeau too many times is slow to react and leaving one side of the goal wide open is happening too many times. Miller is not even worth talking about, and Mosquera is lost
They regressed because of the personnel on the field. Just look at who started and who was on the bench from the previous game. The only positive addition was Mora as a starter. I think it might have worked out ok had Pantemis started.
First goal - Crepeau was slow off his line and very slow to react. He needs to own the box and cut down that angle, just like Pantemis did on that poor clearance sequence from Mosquera in Austin game when Driussi almost scored.
Second goal - Longer arms, quicker reaction to push that out. I think that was saveable.
And that is on Phil, I meant to say. He makes the selections.
What a clown show. @RCTEYEDEE: You were right not to trust Phil. I don't know if I ever can again. He built up my trust with two good games, and then he pisses it all away.
1. Araujo plays himself onto the field with outstanding play for the past three or four games and for some reason doesn't start.
2. Ayala and Antony both look fresh coming off the bench, and for some reason, don't start.
3. You take Mora off at half? What?
4. You start Chara three games in one week. Not wise.
5. Pantemis, who you called the best player on the field last game, who pitches a shutout, doesn't start?
Phil, why are you changing something that works? Why do coaches mess with success?
Yep! These were all questions that were going through our entire section throughout the game. I'm still not sure what's up with Mora - he didn't sit on the bench that I saw in the second half, so he may be injured, that might be something to keep an eye on, but all those other decisions...what the actual fuck, Phil. I get that it's a three game week, and you need to keep guys somewhat fresh, but that does not even start to explain, for one, why Pantemis didn't start tonight, particularly since he'll start the next couple games since Crepeau's on international duty. Crepeau's a decent keeper, but Pantemis earned the right to start tonight after what he did Weds, I thought.
And the rest of those points are equally baffling, and all contribute to why I can't and won't trust Neville as a coach at this point.
I'm not big on Antony. I just don't know what he gives the Timbers? He's quick, gets in good space, however he has big touches or he just loses the ball to a defender who stays patient.
I'll give Phil credit for rotating the team over the last 3 games. Better than playing the same XI for 3 games and waiting till the 80 minute to use some subs, then wondering why someone is out for 6 months.
I think Antony is going to grow into a good player. Just needs experience.
Mora injured is the only thing that makes sense. I hate to crap on Crepeau, but he gives up two goals a game every game. Not good, not going to win games that way.
Agree. Crepeau and Miller were touted as elite defensive addition this year and both (imho) have sorely disappointed. I’ll give Crepeau a lot more leeway, however, due to the absolutely atrocity of a defense this team fields night in night out. FFS Mosquera and Miller were both awful again tonight. Zup is literally the only one worth keeping.
Yeah, I still think Crepeau is an upgrade on Ivacic, even as I think that Pantemis should have started last night and will hopefully take the starting job permanently in the next couple weeks in Crepeau's absence. But Miller...I haven't whiffed that badly on my estimation of a player since I thought that Danny Welbeck would be a 20 goal/season scorer when he moved to Arsenal from Manchester United.
Zuparic is putting in yet another solid season and it's frustrating how much of his good work is being wasted.
I do not get all the Crepeau “hate”. Pantemis had a good game yes defensively. Pantemis distribution though? It is a good thing Austin was so inept as I don’t recall Pantemis springing us for a goal. Crepau on the other hand is partially responsible on that second goal as his distribution caused the foul to be drawn. I think of Miller the same way. Yes defensively Zupric does a good job, but offensively he brings little to nothing. He isn’t hitting the pass to break lines.
I don't hate Crepeau, at all. I did think he would be better than he's been since he arrived, but he hasn't been actively bad - he's just been less commanding of his area than he was at his peak with LAFC. Pantemis has been a very strong surprise, though, and I do think he has a chance to steal the starting job if he plays well enough while Crepeau's gone.
But even if he doesn't, I'm content with Crepeau remaining as the starter - both current keepers are a big upgrade over Ivacic and Bingham.
"Yes defensively Zupric does a good job, but offensively he brings little to nothing."
I'm just old-school enough in my soccer fandom that I don't really care about this. A defender's job to me, primarily, is to defend. Anything else is a bonus. And Zup is very good at his primary job.
I thought we were told that Pantemis got the start the other night so that he and the D could get to know each other with Crepeau soon being gone for a few games. Seems that same rationale would have applied last night. Like JRod's game last night. Seemed to really be going after it. I am concerned about my guy Bravo's health. Looked like he wasn't feeling great. Loved the energy that Focaca brought late.
Yeah, I'd love to say the choice to go back to Crepeau was baffling, but most of Phil's choices are baffling, so it's of a piece with the way he manages I guess.
The one fun thing throughout this whole season is that the two players that can be counted on to bring 100% of themselves every single game have been Evander and, since he arrived, JR. Both of them singlehandedly want to will this team to win, every minute of every game they play, and it's fantastic to watch.
Neville said in press conference Mora's leg had tightened by halftime so they didn't want to risk further messing it up.
Ah, good to know. Thanks.
Man, if we can fix the defensive problems, this team would be on top of the table. Our attacking players are very good and we have a lot of depth in that area. Hopefully we'll add some talent on D during the summer transfer window. I really enjoy watching this team when they play hard. Ayala was like a whirling dervish out there last night.
Good soccer fortune always evens out. Timbers had some earlier, all gone this game. Two crossbars at the end, Ayala had JR for the winner and launches the stupidest shot II’ve seen all year. If I could reached inside my tv, I’d have strangled him.
If we’re making a list of Timbers to pin this one on, Cabecita is near the bottom if you ask me
No, no. Read the post. Deep in stoppage. Ayala breaking, JR on the left, onside. A simple pass and JR is in on the keeper. And don’t call him Cabecita, he doesn’t care for it.
Ah, got it.
Thumbs up
Not Timbers-related, but in case anybody ever doubts that Atlanta (along with S**ttle) are the most petty teams in the league, they won't even acknowledge Charlotte exists in their game today, refusing to put their team name on the scoreboard, and also cutting off the city name on the team logo:
http://www.pdxcite.net/soccercityusa/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/atl060224.jpg
Wow, that is some petty, third grade BS.
Looks like Charlotte was motivated by the disrespect.
Final: Visitors 3, Atlanta 2.
Employed head coaches: Visitors 1, Atlanta 0
Sounders reject clap clap clapclapclap
Crepeau and Miller are good if we don’t play a high defensive line. Neither of them are quick enough or good enough with the ball at their feet: Neville should know this. That he apparently doesn’t is further testament to how stubbornly oblivious he is. Miller is built for a 3-back. Neville plays the wrong system, strategy, and tactics for the players he picks, and picks the wrong players for the strategy, system, and tactics.
I don’t want a back 3 in the grand scheme of things. I don’t think we are built for it. I don’t want to work toward it. I generally don’t like it as a matter of personal preference. But it’s about the only way to get our best players on the pitch, not cough up goals, and score. Or, the Christmas tree with the right midfield that he’s never tried.
Rotating players for health and fitness is the only excuse for this starting XI right now. But I’m afraid that’s not the entire reason for Neville’s decision. I fear he’s a just kind of thick.
7 points in 3 games looks great on paper, costly if there’s a win on the road in Texas. But a draw at home against Houston right now isn’t great. Giving up an early goal is bad. We have yet to play consistently well for 90 minutes, especially against good teams, and we have the same problems we always do. I haven’t seen any post-match comments yet, so I don’t know what the excuses and explanations are. I thought we’d win this one ugly. Instead we drew ugly. I continue to be impressed by our DPs but we shouldn’t be that reliant on them. The rest of the team isn’t as bad as Phil makes them look. No idea how he earned so much trust and why anyone defends him.
with two offensive minded wingbacks and only one true winger of quality, i’d say they are better set up to play 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 than 4-2-3-1.
Ding ding ding
“You wanna coach the team? It can’t be much worse.”
How does Neville not see this?
I don’t like the idea of a back 3 and railed against it since preseason but even I’ve come around as I’ve seen the reality of the situation. I still think a back 4 could work in a Christmas tree, with better upfield defensive tactics, or faster CBs, but a 3-back is a stopgap at least. It lets Bravo and Mosquera play to their strengths and gives Evander, Mora, and Rodriguez space to find each other. I thought Antony and Moreno would be more ready. I didn’t realize how slow our CBs are and that Crepeau isn’t a sweeper keeper. I didn’t imagine we’d cede so much time and space on the ball until our final third. I assumed too much and was wrong.
The 4-2-3-1 can work with two offensively-minded fullbacks, but you need a specific combo in the "2" part of that formation. Specifically, you need a regista and a box-to-box midfielder to support both ends of the field. The best example of this I'm in my mind was the Davide Pizzaro-Danielle DeRossi combo in the late 2000's AS Roma teams. I think Paredes can play that DDR role, but unless we can reverse time on Chara, I don't know who we have that can play as a proper regista. The big thing for me is that we simply don't have the quality at CB.
I'm afraid Paredes doesn't have it in him. I've wanted him to evolve into that kind of 6 but it doesn't seem like we've been trying to mold him that way, even as he's improved at 8. Ayala gives me some optimism but I'm starting to feel like he's the 8 we need and that we're going to have to use a DP slot to replace Chara. Eyrk would work better with a DP 6 behind him as well but he's still not the best in possession. Regardless, our CBs and keepers aren't technical and quick enough for the tactics.
We have a lot of talent but not to fit the style Neville appears to want. He coaches like he's got Premier League talent. I never thought of that kind of thing being an issue with international coaches but I think it may be. They take technique for granted and don't consider the physicality and sloppiness of the league, or the climate and travel constraints. They also don't seem to adapt well to the drop-off in talent from DPs to the rest of the squad, or starters to subs.
"No idea how he earned so much trust and why anyone defends him."
He's the classic example of what Americans have wildly overromanticized as a skillset in soccer. I mean, first of all, credit where it's due - Phil Neville was definitely a good player on some amazingly good Manchester United teams in the 90's. That is unquestionable.
But so many people in and around the game in this country just fall all over themselves because "HE PLAYED IN ENGLAND ON SOME REALLY GOOD TEAMS FROM WHEN I FIRST FELL IN LOVE WITH SOCCER AND HE HAS A WELL KNOWN NAME FROM THEN", as if that's a qualification for coaching, and then just don't bother wondering whether he's actually good at coaching or not.
He was handed his first coaching job despite having basically no coaching experience, mostly because he was Phil Neville, and he's Peter Principled his way here, and now we get to deal with him every week for the foreseeable future.
Haha, he's kinda the Chauncey Billups of soccer.
Would you like to have an actual substantive discussion about Neville's coaching - in this game or any game - or would you just like to try to paint me as the outlier or only person on this site who has that opinion? I'd be happy to have an actual discussion about the merits of his abilities if you would like to, and I'm absolutely open to having my mind changed about him if you have something of substance to say, but if all you want to do is snark, there's not much point in engaging with you.
Have a great day.
Geez, dude, chill out! So, curious, if not Gio or Phil, who would be a realistic, viable coaching alternative for the Timbers!
Right now? No one, we are stuck with Phil for at least this season and probably next, unless things go catastrophically wrong and they lose literally every game from now until October. And for the record, for the multiple people on here who seem to think I exist only to hate Phil Neville: I DO NOT WANT THAT.
But once Gio was fired, there was a list of candidates floated as potential replacements. That list included Neville, and names like Dome Torrent, Ezra Hendrickson, Robin Fraser, Miles Joseph, John Herdman, Danny Cruz, and a few others.
My personal wish, because I want the Timbers to be one of the dominant tier of teams in MLS, was that they'd show some ambition and back the money truck up to Jesse Marsch's door and ask "HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU WANT", and also give him some roster control, but I knew MP would never let that happen. Of the list of probable candidates, I would have preferred they go with Torrent, Herdman, or Joseph.
Neville showed no real managerial skill with the England women's team (and wasn't particularly well liked, either), didn't do much of note with a Miami team with a very in-flux roster (sound familiar?), and his history gave no reason to believe he'd do any better here. He was easily the least impressive name on the list of potential managers, but he was the Biggest Name Because He's English, and I think that put stars in a lot of front office people's eyes.
You don’t get much else apparently.
*especially if there’s a win on the road in Texas
We already waived Ivavic. Unless a rule change in the summer window gives us a chance to waive another, we can’t amnesty Mabiala. It doesn’t make sense anyway because he’s out of contract at the end of this season. If previously argued to use a second amnesty in Zuparic. Now he’s arguably out best CB. Zac? He’s got trade or sale value. And apparently we need him for international breaks. He’s also cheap. And if we go three at the back we need more depth.
If we play a 3-back or a Christmas tree, Antony and Moreno get more time to develop with spot starts, sub on, and rotation minutes based on the schedule and game state. They both have upside. I don’t like either formation. I can see viewing them as a capitulation. But conceding goals is capitulation in another sense and using tactics that don’t work and have little prospects with the current roster is stubbornly arrogant and self-defeating.
I’m looking at the 8 spot for a DP now. If Ayala moves into the 6 role to replace Chara, neither Paredes or Williamson have consistently shown themselves good enough in possession to be the 8 in our system. Evander has come into his own as a 10 or I’d say just move him back to his original position and sign someone who has been a successful 10.
Unless the DP/U22 rules really do change, we can only sign a young DP on this window. We also need to be mindful that Mora and Rodriguez are both 30ish. I haven’t seen us have much success developing players in general, especially young attacking players, so I’m wary of trying to groom a successor for either of them but we don’t have many options barring a rule change.
Unless we waive, sell, or trade the right players, we only have one senior roster spot open. Williamson is on a HG contract. Paredes has sale or trade value. Apparently Moreno has some interest. As much as I like certain players and don’t actually trust Ned and Neville to make smart roster moves, we should take good offers and let the players have better opportunities. I’d be more confident in N&N if they didn’t keep insisting Rodriguez is a lone striker and (despite his success there) we hadn’t brought Evander in to be a 10, among other things.
MLS actually did change the amnesty rule in April, and teams can amnesty two players a season. At this point, though, an amnesty is prorated, I believe - an off-season amnesty gives a full season's cap space and an in-season one only gives a half-season's worth (with the accompanying salary still being paid, as was always the case). But there is the flexibility for one more buyout if they want to do it.
The presumed rule change was reported on in April but isn't official yet. It doesn't matter much because we can't bring in new players until the summer transfer window anyway.
My understanding is amnesty doesn't alleviate cap space, only roster space, until a player signs a contract with a new team.
I welcome citations to the contrary.
Ah, I think you're right - the new rules were approved in April but they don't take effect until the summer, according to this:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39915056/mls-roster-flexibility-rules-dps-lionel-messi-world-cup
And as I've always understood it (this article isn't 100% clear on it), the amnesty rule does immediately free up cap space, but the team who releases the player is still on the hook for the player's salary until that player signs for another team. So it is a costly move from an ownership standpoint, but it does give a team flexibility to move on from a roster-building point of view.
"Semi-Guaranteed Players waived on or after the Contract Guarantee Date and Guaranteed Players waived anytime, and who clear Waivers (i.e., not picked up by another club), will continue to have their respective Salary Budget Charges count against the applicable Club Salary Budgets."
https://www.mlssoccer.com/about/roster-rules-and-regulations
A thing that discourages me about the idea of Ned going out and signing defenders that fit Neville’s system is that Neville brought in Kamal and Crepeau, who don’t fit his system, and that he seems to be completely oblivious to this. A faster right centerback would help. None of our defenders are bad, per se, except arguably Mosquera with respect to the extent he’s expected to defend. We just aren’t playing to their strengths and weaknesses. Phil doesn’t have us challenging opponents farther up the pitch so, especially when we play a high line, we can get beat by a press or counter. I may have seen some improvements in upfield defense but I’m not convinced it isn’t just players saying, “fuck this” and trying. There’s some video from training where Phil specifically says he doesn’t want them going into challenges one v one. A player isn’t always going to have the luxury to double team. If one of their teammates moves to assist them, they’re probably leaving someone else open. Not only have we not consistently been stepping to challenges to trying to win the ball back, we haven’t been moving to block passing lanes. When we are in possession, we still too often don’t have good off-the-ball movement. The DPs seem to be finding their own rhythm and chemistry at least. Whenever it seems like we’ve improved, Neville changes something that seemed like part of the fix before. Dude is flailing. But he’s confident, which many find convincing.