I didn't like the Phil Neville hire when it was announced, and I like it less and less with each passing week now that he's here. He's not adjusting, he's not improving the squad, he's just not doing the job well at all. It's going to be a long season at this rate.
There was nothing in Neville's record to indicate he was a good coach, and so far this year there's nothing on the field to indicate it either. I think Grabavoy & co. mixed up "great player" with "great coach," and now here we are.
When do you start holding Ned accountable? Because this roster is average, at best.
But I do agree that Phil needs to start making adjustments and he needs to start getting the starting XI right. He's here to make hard decisions and point this ship in a new direction, not placate aging legends or supporters and play a new edition of Gio ball.
Here is my armchair recliner hot take:
Chara is done. He's a legend and easy RoH member. But time has finally caught up to him. He doesn't break lines or shuttle the ball. He's not a deep creative force, and really never has been, but any effective box-to-box he had is gone. Defensively he's a step off the pace. His inclusion means we cede the center of the pitch and defenders have no outlet in center mid (not that we'd trust McGraw with that now, anyway).
We need to see what Ayala can do with more minutes. If he's not available, then time to test a new formation or Paredes/Williamson or move Evander off the 10 and have him play deeper IDK, but a midfield built around Chara didn't work the last two seasons and it won't now. Last year, we had our best run of results without Chara. It's time to start the process of moving on.
Capt. Obvious takes:
McGraw is not the answer. This is plain to see, and really should've been last year. He's a likable guy who works hard. At most, he's a big body to bring on late in games, if you're hoping for a set piece goal to equalize or to defend set-pieces... but he's not great at either of those. All due respect to him, but his CNT inclusion was something of a fluke. USMNT he wouldn't even be on the C-team radar. At this point, his place in the XI either means Zup and Araujo suck, or Phil has a weird CNT fetish that he needs to get over.
Ned needed to add outside back depth, and didn't. Negligence. The last two games we've been exposed by this. Maybe it gets a little better with Bravo's return, but he's no savior, and even with him back we're still thin out there. Miller is a likeable journeyman role player, not a regular starter at LB. It's just lazy roster construction. Sub-adequate.
Yes, an ambitious team needs a good GK and 9. But none of that matters if defenders play like amateurs or if attacking midfielders can't get service to the 9, and there is seemingly little concept of team defending. Maybe we've overrated some of our midfield players and we're at best a mid-table club ATM, but our issues are exacerbated by a Chara who just can't do it like he used to.
These last two games neither Van or Phi did anything special. They just simply held back, closed off lanes, and waited for us to expose ourselves or make silly mistakes. That's it. More competence and ability in center mid should help with that, and make us less one dimensional instead of always having Santi on the ball.
There are questions to be asked for sure. But in 2 successive years we have changed GM and then manager. That is going to be an incohesive mess for most clubs. New GM comes in and is trying to please one manager, then has to can him and start over.
We could go 2012 and just get rid of nearly everyone and start over, lower fan expectations, but as a STH I hated that. The season was over mid summer, white flag raised and while there were guys out there trying to win, it looked a lot like the Blazers currently do - no actual chance.
You can rebuild very quickly in this league though if you clear space. I am sure it would be very expensive to move significant salaries out (i.e. wouldn't get value during a fire sale) so MP has probably rejected that idea.
The last couple of games have looked fairly incoherent for long periods. I think it is multiple factors - bad pairings (same weaknesses and strengths), coaching with no apparent strategy or maybe player ability to execute the strategy if there is one, and a set of players who if you were building a team probably wouldn't be your destination.
As much as I love Diego Chara, he does turn 38 this week. Most players are 3-5 years retired by this point, some hang on to 38 but there are very, very, very few still playing at 40 and the rare ones who hang on are transitioning to bench roles at his age. I think we need to face reality here. I would like to see more of Ayala too personally - love Diego, but time waits for no one.
Gio didn't rate Araujo, apparently Phil doesn't either. Which is rough given how exposed Zac has looked this season so far. I think Zup is the calming influence, underrated. I would start him with Miller, give Zac time if he looks better in training again to spell Miller. I am disappointed that our CBs just don't work well together.
I honestly don't think Ned has done that bad of a job with the players he's added. He inherited a mess of a roster when he took over from GW; Ned was technical director and scouting director, but didn't have sole control of roster construction until January of 2023. GW had final say over who was ultimately brought in until that point.
So for me, it's not completely fair to blame Ned for 100% of the roster problems right now. He's done some good work in his last couple windows, and has a lot more to do in the next couple, for sure.
I don't think Chara is done, but I also think it's a mistake to build a midfield around his style of play at this point in time. The league, and the game, has evolved past the point where a destroyer 6 is the fulcrum of a midfield; Chara can still play a role, but depending on him to do everything from breaking up an opposing attack to starting a Timbers attack would be a mistake. I said it last week but the occasional half time sub (either subbing him off or bringing him on) to both give him rest and to introduce different looks to the midfield isn't the worst idea.
"But I do agree that Phil needs to start making adjustments"
I truly don't believe he's capable of making those adjustments. Over the course of his Miami tenure, he never did - he had a pretty rough roster there, and he never was able to make them anything more than mediocre, and I didn't really expect he could take a better-than-that-on-paper roster here and organize them into anything better than Gio could. So far, unfortunately, he is proving me right in that.
The worrisome thing to me is that he isn't showing any adjustment week to week; the mistakes are there for everyone to see, and he's not demonstrating that the Timbers are figuring out what they're doing wrong, particularly on the defensive end, and working towards fixing it. And that's 100% on coaching.
I have to say the lack of another wingback is glaring. With Bravo out we are stuck with E Miller starting, and then moving Antony and/or Asprilla to wingback. Even when we get Bravo back we are stuck with E Miller as the backup which isn't great. This is on Ned because it doesn't take a soothsayer to realized how thin we are at that position.
I will say I'm okay with the player acquisitions for Ned, but the jury is out on Neville. Lets see if he can better prepare the team going forward, the results so far have been.... mixed.
Mcgraw was one of the best cb statistically last year. He dominates the box but someone gave a good explanation of how the system change shows his weakness. He is too slow. He has terrible recovery speed. The one good thing is that phil subbed him at half and zuparic did what he always does. Becomes a clean up CB. He constantly puts out fires. He did it alot last year when Mcgraw was out of position because of the lack of speed.
Chara is slowing down and I agree that it started last year. I was calling for a formation change because the Timbers need to shrink the field for him. For so long we have had chara there to clean up every mess in the midfield. Well he can't do that anymore. So you have to shrink his area of coverage.
I don't see what others do on either side of the ball. Our positioning is terrible. Our pressing is all over the place. Team easily pass through us. The offense is pretty much cycle the ball around from left to right, back to a cb, then back to the keeper. Teams man mark our midfield and back line and we have no idea how to break that "pressure". Watch Brighton, man city, leverkusen, arsenal. Those teams are so well coached into a system that they know exactly where to move, where their teammates will be and what space to occupy when a player leaves his space. By doing this they instinctively move the ball faster and easily out of pressure. From their they move the ball up field and strangle the opponents half. They make sure they are never more than 10 yards away from a teammate so they can quickly recover any bad passes or break up plays by closing space quickly with close contact pressure. The Timbers can't do any of that. Any of it. That's coaching. People even comment how Brighton could almost just plug and play with any player because their system is so well coached and thought out. That is coaching. Phil ain't that guy. So no I don't see anything resembling good offense or defense. I see horrendous defense and just go forward and pile numbers around the box offense.
I'd like to see the second half on display for the bulk of a game. Maybe the VWs let down a bit with a 2-0 lead, or maybe they simply couldn't handle the pressure, which wasn't just defensively, but offensively applied, too. When they did try to pressure the Timbers in our own half, K Miller passed over their front five or six guys with dimes to the LW, and on attack we went. We had compressed the field and were winning the second balls easily. I think we can play more of that style with two good CBs, such as Zup and Miller. The first half was so tentative.
Why was the first half - the first 40 minutes, really - so tentative? Why did it take so long for PTFC to commit to anything in those first 30-40, at the expense of two goals, and I'd argue, the game? What does this overall dynamic say about the team?
The bigger question, for me, is what does that say about the coach? It is the coach's job to get his team ready to play, no matter what. Phil needs to set the team up to come out ready to play and to be ready to be firing on all cylinders for 90 minutes, not just 40 minutes here or 30 there when panic sets in.
He needs to be instilling the team with some idea of what to do, of how to do it, and of what to do when Plan A doesn't work. He isn't seeming to be able to do that with any level of consistency, and that's worrisome.
And yes, players gotta play, and I do hold them accountable at some level, but "coming out tentative" is absolutely on the coach. It's on him to set the team up to succeed, and so far he has absolutely not done that.
What is it that causes a team of professional soccer players, folks who have played the game their whole lives, to choke for that first half hour then only snap to once half time is looming? I know PTFC has tended to do this lately, I'm just curious why it happens.
Zuparic has to start. Miller is too slow to be a LB. And Kamal is just as slow as Mcgraw. Masquera has not been good and needs to be benched for a little bit. If it were me this is what I would do.
Jon mora
Evander
Antony ayala chara Moreno
Miller zuparic Mcgraw
Crep
Jonathan isn't as quick like he used to be. Moreno and Antony are good two way players and have the stamina to play both sides. This would also send a message to masquera and everyone else. Performance matters. Having a 4 line midfield would shrink the field for chara. Ayala needs to be primed for taking over in the midfield. But needs to do it under the supervision of a old timer like chara. This leaves Evander higher up field to combine with mora and jona and also doesn't leave our striker on an island, like Jona has been. He can now hold up and play off of mora. This also would keep 3 cbs back for added coverage and would shrink the space sideline to sideline on counters. Players breaking the line on counters can be squeezed from either side and close the space. Not allowing a player to run left or right of the defender and keep space between him and the cb to fire off a shot.
Then you sub Eryk for Evander. Masquera for Moreno. Paredes for chara. Asprilla or Nathan for mora or Jona. And maybe Miller or Araujo for anyone of the cbs. 3-4-1-2
Supposedly they have been working a 3 back in preseason, but we haven't seen it so far. Perhaps we will see it coming up, but I don't see Mosquera being benched. I see why you would want to bench him, but he is still a productive player and that would be difficult for a coach to do.
Another player who could use a day off would be Antony. His play hasn't been very good the past few games, and we do have Asprilla on the bench.
Not sure going 3 in the back with no speed and a 38 year old as your destroyer, Antony and Moreno who are frequently way up field is a way to shore up the defense. If the offense is clicking maybe you win 5-4, but on more nights than not that looks like a 4-2 loss.
our number one problem is the defense. we have three internationals at the back (and another one as a backup keeper) and these are the defensive performances we get? it's time to fire ridgewell and bring in a quality defensive coach!
I totally agree about the defense. The problem I see right now is the pairing of K Miller and McGraw. Both of them are really slow, and when they are up at the midfield line neither can recover quickly enough. Add in E Miller who isn't fast and Mosquera who is more offensively minded and its a counter-attacking nightmare for the Timbers. I still believe the offense will improve, but I'm not sure what can be done with the defense other than bench one of the two CBs.
It is absolutely wild to me, with the defenders the Timbers have, that they're as bad as they are defensively. A complete 180 from what I was expecting before the season. I am not sure what the coaching staff breakdown looks like, whether all defensive coaching is on Ridgewell, but I was surprised he survived the regime change and would not be at all unhappy if he were shown the door now as part of an effort to improve.
The occasional mental lapse I could understand; every once in a while, the majority of the defense being out of position happens. But those two things happen multiple times every single game, and that speaks to a lack of coaching and a lack of accountability. Something has to change, and since the brand new head coach isn't gonna be changed, it's time to look at the other legacy coaches that stayed behind and change them up to get some defensive-minded coaches in house that can coach the brainfarts out of this group ASAP.
A punch in the gut game, sort of similar to the New York game where we came out completely flat footed and looked dreadful in the first 35 minutes, and then were basically in control the rest of the game. The difference was Vancouver punished us and we had too great of a hill to climb. But we almost got there. I have lots of thoughts.
Whatever Phil said at halftime, he needs to do that for the start of games. We came out of the second half and pressed high and created chances. Vancouver had basically nothing going forward. I don’t know if Phil isn’t motivating the players enough, or if the players aren’t executing the game plan. In the post match press conference, Phil seemed irate at how the players came out in the first half. I appreciate that it seems he’s holding his players accountable.
I don’t blame Zac for either of the two goals. Okay, the second goal a little, but he’s running towards his own goal and the ball is behind him, it’s very hard to contort your body to get more contact than he did. I think he could have gotten more contact and put it out for a throw in, but it’s much easier said than done. My concern was how easily Vancouver sucked us up the field and then destroyed our left side of defense. McGraw has not regressed since last year, the difference is we’re playing a much different system and it doesn’t fit him. With Gio we sat back and defended deep, which Zac does great. Now he’s asked to play out from the back and cover ground with speed while defending in space, which are his worst attributes. It’s a different system that highlights his weaknesses as a player. While I don’t blame him entirely for the goals, I think Zuparic or Araujo would be better fits for this team, and I think we’ll see them (hopefully).
If you watch that second goal back, Chara was marking the player who made the cross, but then he just kind of stops, perhaps passing him off to K. Miller so he can go mark the middle? I don’t know, but it didn’t work, and it probably would’ve been better if he stuck with his man. The first goal, however, I would definitely put on Chara, who doesn’t track Gauld into the box (again he does initially but then stops). Chara had some nice long passes this game that I appreciated a lot, but I do think this is the season that Ayala should start to get some minutes over him. We need a 6 who will drop back and be more proactive in possession. Chara seems like he rarely wants the ball.
I don’t think starting Paredes was the right call. He doesn’t fit Phil’s system one bit, similar to McGraw. When we’re playing slowly and methodically trying to build out from the back, Paredes isn’t going to help with that, which isn’t his fault because it isn’t his game. And it’s not like he helped with the defensive aspect of the game, he got pulled around plenty of times, getting caught chasing the ball instead of be smarter with his defense. We all assume Paredes will be a good defensive 8, but he hasn’t been this year imo. I don’t know why Williamson didn’t start, but if it was a fitness issue I would’ve much rather seen Ayala out there. However, in the second half, Paredes was great! We pressed high and pushed more numbers forward, opening up the game. That’s where Paredes excels, when the game is open and kind of wild, and he did very well to assist Evander’s goal. A slow possession game? Not for him. But I thought taking him off in the second half was a mistake since he was doing so well, we probably should’ve taken Chara off instead.
I think Kamal Miller does fit this team quite well though, he’s much better playing out of the back than any of our other center backs, and he played tons of long balls that opened up space. That was huge for us. We desperately needed that last game. He made a few rough passes late in the second half (we were told by Miami fans that he’s good for his fair share of blunders) but overall I think he’s a really important piece for how Phil wants us to play.
That was one of the best games I’ve seen from Evander, once we went 2-0 down he took the game by the scruff of the neck and decided to do whatever he could. That was the hardest I’ve ever seen him work on the field, he was getting the ball and driving forward, opening up space and creating chances. Easy MOTM, if he can be like that more it would be amazing. That was seriously the most I’ve ever seen him “try” (not that he doesn’t try normally, he just often doesn’t look like it).
I’ve seen people say this is the same old Timbers team from the Gio era, and I couldn’t disagree more. If we went down like this under Gio I think we would’ve crippled and gave up. At the very least, I’m happy that Neville got this team fired up for the second half and we damn near stole a point, and potentially three! This team finally knows how to possess the ball and attack a little bit, let’s not forget how absolutely clueless this team was in possession under Gio. And we see some attacking patterns of play too instead of endless crosses. I think this team is a decent chunk better than we were when we let Gio go. Fighting back from 2-0 down is good stuff. That being said, Phil got it all wrong in the first half, and I’m not impressed with his coaching thus far. Yes, he’s made some improvements, but the glaring awful defensive structure is still there, and we are going nowhere with that defense. I still think this team has potential and I’m enjoying watching them far more than I did under Gio, but Phil has got to start getting more out of this team now. There’s a tough trip ahead, so it’s not time to hit the panic button just yet, but I gotta see some improvement.
And no, for the love of god, the replacement refs were NOT better than PRO. They were terrible, please let’s not forget that. Yes, PRO is bad, but so is like every referee organization across the world because it’s really hard to be a referee, and we have the advantage of critiquing them with replays and slow motion. The replacement refs made countless weird calls, and I think a lot of us aren’t remembering them because we just thought “oh it’s just the replacement refs so that’s ok” and our standards were lower. Overall, they were terrible, and you gotta take a look around the league to really see all of it. I thought Chapman called a pretty solid game besides a few calls, and no, I don’t think that last play should’ve been a penalty. Rodriguez was clearly looking for it, he felt the arm tug and fell to the ground. Total flop. If it was called you can’t overturn it because there is a pull, but to me there’s no way that’s a clear and obvious error, I do not want to see that sort of diving rewarded, even for my own team. It’s disappointing too because it seemed like he would’ve easily fought through it and would’ve had a clear shot on goal inside the 6, he could’ve scored! But instead he went down. So disappointing
"I’ve seen people say this is the same old Timbers team from the Gio era, and I couldn’t disagree more."
You're absolutely right, and I honestly think that gets at my biggest frustration so far this young season. They're definitely different, but they're not much *better*, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. The whole point of a new coach is to improve the team as a whole, and so far, Phil's not doing that.
I do see encouraging signs of improved offensive cohesion and production under Neville (and watching Evander get better by the game is a delight), but unless and until he fixes the myriad defensive issues, that won't matter in the slightest. "Attack more" is not going to be the solution to an inability to defend set pieces, or an inability to retain a defensive shape.
Come to think about it, that second goal is a great encapsulation of our defensive woes. Yeah, we can point to an individual mistake from McGraw, but the real problem is how easily the team got played through, which lead to putting a player like McGraw in a bad position, which leads to mistakes. We can switch players around all we want, but the problem is the defensive organization and coaching, and nothing will change until that improves, starting from the coach
I thought we were actually going to win that game. But, I probably felt a little greedy and should have been happy with a draw. The loss is a crusher, given all the energy spent equalizing.
You can see that when the defense is sorted out, the boys can just play and attack relentlessly, which they did in the second half.
I doubt we see much of Zach in the coming weeks, and if so, I think you will see a team that gets on a roll. I'm disappointed Phil started him to begin with, so I give him half credit for taking him off at the half.
We scored some awesome goals, and I am excited to see how all the pieces work out - like Johnathan on the left wing at times.
Evander looked great, and so did K. Miller, who dropped like three straight long passes to the left wing on a dime to beat the press (so awesome!).
We lost control of the game in the last 10 minutes - not sure why - maybe personnel - which led to the third goal. So, there is a question of how to close the game out: either safely or aggressively. We gradually lost the midfield once Paredes and Moreno left, but I am assuming Moreno was gassed(?). I feel like that was a game we could have and should have won 2-1.
Last: It might have been soft, but anytime you grab a buy in the box it should be a penalty. Poor defense should be punished.
The last 10 minutes were difficult to watch. Either the whole team was gassed, or they started to play for the draw and let the game get away. Neither is a complement. It was the NYCFC game but with a bad ending.
Moreno was definitely gassed, multiple times I saw him just walking around behind the play with his head down, he was exhausted. He did a lot of running but didn’t do a whole lot on the ball honestly, so I was fine with taking him off. I’m not sure why we took Paredes off though, I thought he was nonexistent in the first half but he was much better in the second because we started pressing and the game opened up more, which fits him much better. I thought we should’ve taken Chara off instead honestly
Yeah, we're used to Chara being superhuman but he might be starting to slow down to the point we consider subbing him off instead of younger legs like Paredes. It pains me to say that as Chara is my all-time favorite player.
Things going in our favor - in terms of results, not much. Timbers are on a three game losing streak while SKC is coming off a road vic against Toronto. Timbers have to travel and are playing a morning game on a Sunday. Does any of that matter? I dunno, but it certainly is a challenge. With the right personnel, we look rather dangerous and can take over games and be a dominant team, but we can also make mistakes and give up easy goals. (I'm sorry, but i am not impressed with Vancouver.) Things going against us - Phil's 11 choices. I think he has to get it right and if he does, we will be tough to beat. He hasn't been choosing wisely, though, IMO, and we have left points on the table.
SKC is going to want the ball, so the point of conflict for me is how the Timbers deal with that - are they able to wrest control of the game from the home side? Or at least generate some really quality chances? SKC is pretty similar in results to the Timbers, although they have been able to convert losses into draws, whereas the Timbers seem to be win or lose.
I really hope Johnathan gets on the scoresheet and another player and the defense locks down for a 2-1 win. I hope Zup and Miller start as CBs and they lock down a fairly potent side.
Have to go down about halfway thru the article to a graphic which has the Timbers logo listed as an asset. Also RSL and a number of other teams worldwide.
You can spend money, but you can't beat the March curse.
Really baffled on the defense. I guess Zup, Mabs, and Bravo were apparently not that far off from this team's ceiling. But hey, the offense is looking great
Idk how this season is gonna look but Neville, Miller and even Jonathan don't really move the peg that much. sure we're better off than last season but still pretty middling compared to Paulson's gloating of a "top tier club". At least we're doing better than Seattle but who knows how long that will last
I didn't like the Phil Neville hire when it was announced, and I like it less and less with each passing week now that he's here. He's not adjusting, he's not improving the squad, he's just not doing the job well at all. It's going to be a long season at this rate.
There was nothing in Neville's record to indicate he was a good coach, and so far this year there's nothing on the field to indicate it either. I think Grabavoy & co. mixed up "great player" with "great coach," and now here we are.
When do you start holding Ned accountable? Because this roster is average, at best.
But I do agree that Phil needs to start making adjustments and he needs to start getting the starting XI right. He's here to make hard decisions and point this ship in a new direction, not placate aging legends or supporters and play a new edition of Gio ball.
Here is my armchair recliner hot take:
Chara is done. He's a legend and easy RoH member. But time has finally caught up to him. He doesn't break lines or shuttle the ball. He's not a deep creative force, and really never has been, but any effective box-to-box he had is gone. Defensively he's a step off the pace. His inclusion means we cede the center of the pitch and defenders have no outlet in center mid (not that we'd trust McGraw with that now, anyway).
We need to see what Ayala can do with more minutes. If he's not available, then time to test a new formation or Paredes/Williamson or move Evander off the 10 and have him play deeper IDK, but a midfield built around Chara didn't work the last two seasons and it won't now. Last year, we had our best run of results without Chara. It's time to start the process of moving on.
Capt. Obvious takes:
McGraw is not the answer. This is plain to see, and really should've been last year. He's a likable guy who works hard. At most, he's a big body to bring on late in games, if you're hoping for a set piece goal to equalize or to defend set-pieces... but he's not great at either of those. All due respect to him, but his CNT inclusion was something of a fluke. USMNT he wouldn't even be on the C-team radar. At this point, his place in the XI either means Zup and Araujo suck, or Phil has a weird CNT fetish that he needs to get over.
Ned needed to add outside back depth, and didn't. Negligence. The last two games we've been exposed by this. Maybe it gets a little better with Bravo's return, but he's no savior, and even with him back we're still thin out there. Miller is a likeable journeyman role player, not a regular starter at LB. It's just lazy roster construction. Sub-adequate.
Yes, an ambitious team needs a good GK and 9. But none of that matters if defenders play like amateurs or if attacking midfielders can't get service to the 9, and there is seemingly little concept of team defending. Maybe we've overrated some of our midfield players and we're at best a mid-table club ATM, but our issues are exacerbated by a Chara who just can't do it like he used to.
These last two games neither Van or Phi did anything special. They just simply held back, closed off lanes, and waited for us to expose ourselves or make silly mistakes. That's it. More competence and ability in center mid should help with that, and make us less one dimensional instead of always having Santi on the ball.
There are questions to be asked for sure. But in 2 successive years we have changed GM and then manager. That is going to be an incohesive mess for most clubs. New GM comes in and is trying to please one manager, then has to can him and start over.
We could go 2012 and just get rid of nearly everyone and start over, lower fan expectations, but as a STH I hated that. The season was over mid summer, white flag raised and while there were guys out there trying to win, it looked a lot like the Blazers currently do - no actual chance.
You can rebuild very quickly in this league though if you clear space. I am sure it would be very expensive to move significant salaries out (i.e. wouldn't get value during a fire sale) so MP has probably rejected that idea.
The last couple of games have looked fairly incoherent for long periods. I think it is multiple factors - bad pairings (same weaknesses and strengths), coaching with no apparent strategy or maybe player ability to execute the strategy if there is one, and a set of players who if you were building a team probably wouldn't be your destination.
As much as I love Diego Chara, he does turn 38 this week. Most players are 3-5 years retired by this point, some hang on to 38 but there are very, very, very few still playing at 40 and the rare ones who hang on are transitioning to bench roles at his age. I think we need to face reality here. I would like to see more of Ayala too personally - love Diego, but time waits for no one.
Gio didn't rate Araujo, apparently Phil doesn't either. Which is rough given how exposed Zac has looked this season so far. I think Zup is the calming influence, underrated. I would start him with Miller, give Zac time if he looks better in training again to spell Miller. I am disappointed that our CBs just don't work well together.
I honestly don't think Ned has done that bad of a job with the players he's added. He inherited a mess of a roster when he took over from GW; Ned was technical director and scouting director, but didn't have sole control of roster construction until January of 2023. GW had final say over who was ultimately brought in until that point.
So for me, it's not completely fair to blame Ned for 100% of the roster problems right now. He's done some good work in his last couple windows, and has a lot more to do in the next couple, for sure.
I don't think Chara is done, but I also think it's a mistake to build a midfield around his style of play at this point in time. The league, and the game, has evolved past the point where a destroyer 6 is the fulcrum of a midfield; Chara can still play a role, but depending on him to do everything from breaking up an opposing attack to starting a Timbers attack would be a mistake. I said it last week but the occasional half time sub (either subbing him off or bringing him on) to both give him rest and to introduce different looks to the midfield isn't the worst idea.
"But I do agree that Phil needs to start making adjustments"
I truly don't believe he's capable of making those adjustments. Over the course of his Miami tenure, he never did - he had a pretty rough roster there, and he never was able to make them anything more than mediocre, and I didn't really expect he could take a better-than-that-on-paper roster here and organize them into anything better than Gio could. So far, unfortunately, he is proving me right in that.
The worrisome thing to me is that he isn't showing any adjustment week to week; the mistakes are there for everyone to see, and he's not demonstrating that the Timbers are figuring out what they're doing wrong, particularly on the defensive end, and working towards fixing it. And that's 100% on coaching.
to be fair he started the season with 8pts in 5 games which was better than 5 out of 6 of Gio's seasons. But I agree I never liked this hire.
I have to say the lack of another wingback is glaring. With Bravo out we are stuck with E Miller starting, and then moving Antony and/or Asprilla to wingback. Even when we get Bravo back we are stuck with E Miller as the backup which isn't great. This is on Ned because it doesn't take a soothsayer to realized how thin we are at that position.
I will say I'm okay with the player acquisitions for Ned, but the jury is out on Neville. Lets see if he can better prepare the team going forward, the results so far have been.... mixed.
Mcgraw was one of the best cb statistically last year. He dominates the box but someone gave a good explanation of how the system change shows his weakness. He is too slow. He has terrible recovery speed. The one good thing is that phil subbed him at half and zuparic did what he always does. Becomes a clean up CB. He constantly puts out fires. He did it alot last year when Mcgraw was out of position because of the lack of speed.
Chara is slowing down and I agree that it started last year. I was calling for a formation change because the Timbers need to shrink the field for him. For so long we have had chara there to clean up every mess in the midfield. Well he can't do that anymore. So you have to shrink his area of coverage.
I don't see what others do on either side of the ball. Our positioning is terrible. Our pressing is all over the place. Team easily pass through us. The offense is pretty much cycle the ball around from left to right, back to a cb, then back to the keeper. Teams man mark our midfield and back line and we have no idea how to break that "pressure". Watch Brighton, man city, leverkusen, arsenal. Those teams are so well coached into a system that they know exactly where to move, where their teammates will be and what space to occupy when a player leaves his space. By doing this they instinctively move the ball faster and easily out of pressure. From their they move the ball up field and strangle the opponents half. They make sure they are never more than 10 yards away from a teammate so they can quickly recover any bad passes or break up plays by closing space quickly with close contact pressure. The Timbers can't do any of that. Any of it. That's coaching. People even comment how Brighton could almost just plug and play with any player because their system is so well coached and thought out. That is coaching. Phil ain't that guy. So no I don't see anything resembling good offense or defense. I see horrendous defense and just go forward and pile numbers around the box offense.
I'd like to see the second half on display for the bulk of a game. Maybe the VWs let down a bit with a 2-0 lead, or maybe they simply couldn't handle the pressure, which wasn't just defensively, but offensively applied, too. When they did try to pressure the Timbers in our own half, K Miller passed over their front five or six guys with dimes to the LW, and on attack we went. We had compressed the field and were winning the second balls easily. I think we can play more of that style with two good CBs, such as Zup and Miller. The first half was so tentative.
Why was the first half - the first 40 minutes, really - so tentative? Why did it take so long for PTFC to commit to anything in those first 30-40, at the expense of two goals, and I'd argue, the game? What does this overall dynamic say about the team?
The bigger question, for me, is what does that say about the coach? It is the coach's job to get his team ready to play, no matter what. Phil needs to set the team up to come out ready to play and to be ready to be firing on all cylinders for 90 minutes, not just 40 minutes here or 30 there when panic sets in.
He needs to be instilling the team with some idea of what to do, of how to do it, and of what to do when Plan A doesn't work. He isn't seeming to be able to do that with any level of consistency, and that's worrisome.
And yes, players gotta play, and I do hold them accountable at some level, but "coming out tentative" is absolutely on the coach. It's on him to set the team up to succeed, and so far he has absolutely not done that.
What is it that causes a team of professional soccer players, folks who have played the game their whole lives, to choke for that first half hour then only snap to once half time is looming? I know PTFC has tended to do this lately, I'm just curious why it happens.
Agree.
My hottakes:
Zuparic has to start. Miller is too slow to be a LB. And Kamal is just as slow as Mcgraw. Masquera has not been good and needs to be benched for a little bit. If it were me this is what I would do.
Jon mora
Evander
Antony ayala chara Moreno
Miller zuparic Mcgraw
Crep
Jonathan isn't as quick like he used to be. Moreno and Antony are good two way players and have the stamina to play both sides. This would also send a message to masquera and everyone else. Performance matters. Having a 4 line midfield would shrink the field for chara. Ayala needs to be primed for taking over in the midfield. But needs to do it under the supervision of a old timer like chara. This leaves Evander higher up field to combine with mora and jona and also doesn't leave our striker on an island, like Jona has been. He can now hold up and play off of mora. This also would keep 3 cbs back for added coverage and would shrink the space sideline to sideline on counters. Players breaking the line on counters can be squeezed from either side and close the space. Not allowing a player to run left or right of the defender and keep space between him and the cb to fire off a shot.
Then you sub Eryk for Evander. Masquera for Moreno. Paredes for chara. Asprilla or Nathan for mora or Jona. And maybe Miller or Araujo for anyone of the cbs. 3-4-1-2
Supposedly they have been working a 3 back in preseason, but we haven't seen it so far. Perhaps we will see it coming up, but I don't see Mosquera being benched. I see why you would want to bench him, but he is still a productive player and that would be difficult for a coach to do.
Another player who could use a day off would be Antony. His play hasn't been very good the past few games, and we do have Asprilla on the bench.
Hot indeed.
Not sure going 3 in the back with no speed and a 38 year old as your destroyer, Antony and Moreno who are frequently way up field is a way to shore up the defense. If the offense is clicking maybe you win 5-4, but on more nights than not that looks like a 4-2 loss.
My two cents: 3-5-2
Antony Johnathan
Evander Moreno
Bravo Chara. Mosquera
K.Miller. Zuparic. Araujo
our number one problem is the defense. we have three internationals at the back (and another one as a backup keeper) and these are the defensive performances we get? it's time to fire ridgewell and bring in a quality defensive coach!
I totally agree about the defense. The problem I see right now is the pairing of K Miller and McGraw. Both of them are really slow, and when they are up at the midfield line neither can recover quickly enough. Add in E Miller who isn't fast and Mosquera who is more offensively minded and its a counter-attacking nightmare for the Timbers. I still believe the offense will improve, but I'm not sure what can be done with the defense other than bench one of the two CBs.
It is absolutely wild to me, with the defenders the Timbers have, that they're as bad as they are defensively. A complete 180 from what I was expecting before the season. I am not sure what the coaching staff breakdown looks like, whether all defensive coaching is on Ridgewell, but I was surprised he survived the regime change and would not be at all unhappy if he were shown the door now as part of an effort to improve.
The occasional mental lapse I could understand; every once in a while, the majority of the defense being out of position happens. But those two things happen multiple times every single game, and that speaks to a lack of coaching and a lack of accountability. Something has to change, and since the brand new head coach isn't gonna be changed, it's time to look at the other legacy coaches that stayed behind and change them up to get some defensive-minded coaches in house that can coach the brainfarts out of this group ASAP.
The Timbers are hard to watch right now. They simply aren’t good - in either direction.
A punch in the gut game, sort of similar to the New York game where we came out completely flat footed and looked dreadful in the first 35 minutes, and then were basically in control the rest of the game. The difference was Vancouver punished us and we had too great of a hill to climb. But we almost got there. I have lots of thoughts.
Whatever Phil said at halftime, he needs to do that for the start of games. We came out of the second half and pressed high and created chances. Vancouver had basically nothing going forward. I don’t know if Phil isn’t motivating the players enough, or if the players aren’t executing the game plan. In the post match press conference, Phil seemed irate at how the players came out in the first half. I appreciate that it seems he’s holding his players accountable.
I don’t blame Zac for either of the two goals. Okay, the second goal a little, but he’s running towards his own goal and the ball is behind him, it’s very hard to contort your body to get more contact than he did. I think he could have gotten more contact and put it out for a throw in, but it’s much easier said than done. My concern was how easily Vancouver sucked us up the field and then destroyed our left side of defense. McGraw has not regressed since last year, the difference is we’re playing a much different system and it doesn’t fit him. With Gio we sat back and defended deep, which Zac does great. Now he’s asked to play out from the back and cover ground with speed while defending in space, which are his worst attributes. It’s a different system that highlights his weaknesses as a player. While I don’t blame him entirely for the goals, I think Zuparic or Araujo would be better fits for this team, and I think we’ll see them (hopefully).
If you watch that second goal back, Chara was marking the player who made the cross, but then he just kind of stops, perhaps passing him off to K. Miller so he can go mark the middle? I don’t know, but it didn’t work, and it probably would’ve been better if he stuck with his man. The first goal, however, I would definitely put on Chara, who doesn’t track Gauld into the box (again he does initially but then stops). Chara had some nice long passes this game that I appreciated a lot, but I do think this is the season that Ayala should start to get some minutes over him. We need a 6 who will drop back and be more proactive in possession. Chara seems like he rarely wants the ball.
I don’t think starting Paredes was the right call. He doesn’t fit Phil’s system one bit, similar to McGraw. When we’re playing slowly and methodically trying to build out from the back, Paredes isn’t going to help with that, which isn’t his fault because it isn’t his game. And it’s not like he helped with the defensive aspect of the game, he got pulled around plenty of times, getting caught chasing the ball instead of be smarter with his defense. We all assume Paredes will be a good defensive 8, but he hasn’t been this year imo. I don’t know why Williamson didn’t start, but if it was a fitness issue I would’ve much rather seen Ayala out there. However, in the second half, Paredes was great! We pressed high and pushed more numbers forward, opening up the game. That’s where Paredes excels, when the game is open and kind of wild, and he did very well to assist Evander’s goal. A slow possession game? Not for him. But I thought taking him off in the second half was a mistake since he was doing so well, we probably should’ve taken Chara off instead.
I think Kamal Miller does fit this team quite well though, he’s much better playing out of the back than any of our other center backs, and he played tons of long balls that opened up space. That was huge for us. We desperately needed that last game. He made a few rough passes late in the second half (we were told by Miami fans that he’s good for his fair share of blunders) but overall I think he’s a really important piece for how Phil wants us to play.
That was one of the best games I’ve seen from Evander, once we went 2-0 down he took the game by the scruff of the neck and decided to do whatever he could. That was the hardest I’ve ever seen him work on the field, he was getting the ball and driving forward, opening up space and creating chances. Easy MOTM, if he can be like that more it would be amazing. That was seriously the most I’ve ever seen him “try” (not that he doesn’t try normally, he just often doesn’t look like it).
I’ve seen people say this is the same old Timbers team from the Gio era, and I couldn’t disagree more. If we went down like this under Gio I think we would’ve crippled and gave up. At the very least, I’m happy that Neville got this team fired up for the second half and we damn near stole a point, and potentially three! This team finally knows how to possess the ball and attack a little bit, let’s not forget how absolutely clueless this team was in possession under Gio. And we see some attacking patterns of play too instead of endless crosses. I think this team is a decent chunk better than we were when we let Gio go. Fighting back from 2-0 down is good stuff. That being said, Phil got it all wrong in the first half, and I’m not impressed with his coaching thus far. Yes, he’s made some improvements, but the glaring awful defensive structure is still there, and we are going nowhere with that defense. I still think this team has potential and I’m enjoying watching them far more than I did under Gio, but Phil has got to start getting more out of this team now. There’s a tough trip ahead, so it’s not time to hit the panic button just yet, but I gotta see some improvement.
And no, for the love of god, the replacement refs were NOT better than PRO. They were terrible, please let’s not forget that. Yes, PRO is bad, but so is like every referee organization across the world because it’s really hard to be a referee, and we have the advantage of critiquing them with replays and slow motion. The replacement refs made countless weird calls, and I think a lot of us aren’t remembering them because we just thought “oh it’s just the replacement refs so that’s ok” and our standards were lower. Overall, they were terrible, and you gotta take a look around the league to really see all of it. I thought Chapman called a pretty solid game besides a few calls, and no, I don’t think that last play should’ve been a penalty. Rodriguez was clearly looking for it, he felt the arm tug and fell to the ground. Total flop. If it was called you can’t overturn it because there is a pull, but to me there’s no way that’s a clear and obvious error, I do not want to see that sort of diving rewarded, even for my own team. It’s disappointing too because it seemed like he would’ve easily fought through it and would’ve had a clear shot on goal inside the 6, he could’ve scored! But instead he went down. So disappointing
"I’ve seen people say this is the same old Timbers team from the Gio era, and I couldn’t disagree more."
You're absolutely right, and I honestly think that gets at my biggest frustration so far this young season. They're definitely different, but they're not much *better*, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. The whole point of a new coach is to improve the team as a whole, and so far, Phil's not doing that.
I do see encouraging signs of improved offensive cohesion and production under Neville (and watching Evander get better by the game is a delight), but unless and until he fixes the myriad defensive issues, that won't matter in the slightest. "Attack more" is not going to be the solution to an inability to defend set pieces, or an inability to retain a defensive shape.
Come to think about it, that second goal is a great encapsulation of our defensive woes. Yeah, we can point to an individual mistake from McGraw, but the real problem is how easily the team got played through, which lead to putting a player like McGraw in a bad position, which leads to mistakes. We can switch players around all we want, but the problem is the defensive organization and coaching, and nothing will change until that improves, starting from the coach
I fully agree with this assessment. It's just too easy to quickly get to our 18 and then it's a big scramble.
It’s frustrating because it’s been the same problem for so long. Personnel is not the problem (it is a little), it’s the coaching
I thought we were actually going to win that game. But, I probably felt a little greedy and should have been happy with a draw. The loss is a crusher, given all the energy spent equalizing.
You can see that when the defense is sorted out, the boys can just play and attack relentlessly, which they did in the second half.
I doubt we see much of Zach in the coming weeks, and if so, I think you will see a team that gets on a roll. I'm disappointed Phil started him to begin with, so I give him half credit for taking him off at the half.
We scored some awesome goals, and I am excited to see how all the pieces work out - like Johnathan on the left wing at times.
Evander looked great, and so did K. Miller, who dropped like three straight long passes to the left wing on a dime to beat the press (so awesome!).
We lost control of the game in the last 10 minutes - not sure why - maybe personnel - which led to the third goal. So, there is a question of how to close the game out: either safely or aggressively. We gradually lost the midfield once Paredes and Moreno left, but I am assuming Moreno was gassed(?). I feel like that was a game we could have and should have won 2-1.
Last: It might have been soft, but anytime you grab a buy in the box it should be a penalty. Poor defense should be punished.
The last 10 minutes were difficult to watch. Either the whole team was gassed, or they started to play for the draw and let the game get away. Neither is a complement. It was the NYCFC game but with a bad ending.
Moreno was definitely gassed, multiple times I saw him just walking around behind the play with his head down, he was exhausted. He did a lot of running but didn’t do a whole lot on the ball honestly, so I was fine with taking him off. I’m not sure why we took Paredes off though, I thought he was nonexistent in the first half but he was much better in the second because we started pressing and the game opened up more, which fits him much better. I thought we should’ve taken Chara off instead honestly
Yeah, we're used to Chara being superhuman but he might be starting to slow down to the point we consider subbing him off instead of younger legs like Paredes. It pains me to say that as Chara is my all-time favorite player.
The matchup - SKC vs Portland
Things going in our favor - in terms of results, not much. Timbers are on a three game losing streak while SKC is coming off a road vic against Toronto. Timbers have to travel and are playing a morning game on a Sunday. Does any of that matter? I dunno, but it certainly is a challenge. With the right personnel, we look rather dangerous and can take over games and be a dominant team, but we can also make mistakes and give up easy goals. (I'm sorry, but i am not impressed with Vancouver.) Things going against us - Phil's 11 choices. I think he has to get it right and if he does, we will be tough to beat. He hasn't been choosing wisely, though, IMO, and we have left points on the table.
SKC is going to want the ball, so the point of conflict for me is how the Timbers deal with that - are they able to wrest control of the game from the home side? Or at least generate some really quality chances? SKC is pretty similar in results to the Timbers, although they have been able to convert losses into draws, whereas the Timbers seem to be win or lose.
I really hope Johnathan gets on the scoresheet and another player and the defense locks down for a 2-1 win. I hope Zup and Miller start as CBs and they lock down a fairly potent side.
I didn't know the hedge fund Arctos Partners had a stake in the Timbers...
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/another-multibillion-dollar-deal-completely-171436891.html
Have to go down about halfway thru the article to a graphic which has the Timbers logo listed as an asset. Also RSL and a number of other teams worldwide.
Yup, MP sold off a 15% stake in Peregrine, the business that officially owns the Timbers (and at the time the Thorns) in 2021:
https://www.oregonlive.com/soccer/2022/09/merritt-paulson-sold-minority-stake-in-portland-timbers-thorns-last-year-report.html
You can spend money, but you can't beat the March curse.
Really baffled on the defense. I guess Zup, Mabs, and Bravo were apparently not that far off from this team's ceiling. But hey, the offense is looking great
Hey coach, what happened to our goal differential?
Idk how this season is gonna look but Neville, Miller and even Jonathan don't really move the peg that much. sure we're better off than last season but still pretty middling compared to Paulson's gloating of a "top tier club". At least we're doing better than Seattle but who knows how long that will last