Gotta put in another request for Stumptown Footy to not publish the score of the game in the title of the Instant Reaction article, at least not for a day or two??? It functions as a spoiler, especially for those of us who are getting email or other notifications... thanks
9 games with no win. Conceding multiple goals in nearly every match. Zero identity and zero urgency to get results. This is not only on Neville but it’s on the jackass leadership of the club that hired him with a poor mls record and no real other record to speak of. They knew there would be at least an initial bad reaction to his hire due to his sexist remarks in the past. Yet they hired him because they thought he’d be the best candidate to get wins here. The team is not well coached and the organization as a whole has been terrible. Poor off-seasons and questionable signings or just putting a team together in march two years straight (if not more). Time for Merrit to step out and resign and get some new leadership and a new coach.
No way is Paulson going to step away. I don't think performance is an issue when it comes to the value of the club, insofar as the Paulsons are concerned. As low as PTFC is now, it is still only a third of the way through the season, with only one transfer window just gone by... that is to say, there are plenty more opportunities for Phil and his f*ckery and bottom dwelling before anyone feels compelled to do anything about the situation - people wiser than I think we're going to have to put up with this management team for the rest of the season, come what may.
While there is 2/3 of a season left, if ownership and the front office aren’t panicking, they should be. This is one of the deepest holes the team has ever dug. And nothing indicates a quick turnaround. If the Timbers draw or lose on Wednesday, it’s a declaration of intent to win the spoon. Attendance at this derby was not up to the standard. Like last year, it’s hard to sell extra tickets for close to face value of season tickets. There’s no wait list. These are all metrics that matter for team value. Of course, if they sell, they probably make money. That’s the nature of sports ownership. But have some f****ing pride. And if you think you’re the smartest guy in the room, prove it. Otherwise swallow your pride and hire some smarter people.
There's no "probably" about it. MP bought the rights to the Timbers for $35 million, and the most current Forbes (and Sportico, more recently) valuation of the team has them at a worth of over $650M. So there is a very real probability at this point that MP does not give two shits what happens to "his" club at this point, because the minute he sells, he makes a ridiculous amount of money on his (dad's) initial investment.
I'm told Henry Paulson is the majority owner, not his son Merrit, so the ultimate decision may lie with him, right? He might not even be aware of the Timbers record, or even pretend to be a soccer fan, he sees money making money and leaves it at that. Dude's got loftier things to think about than some guys kicking around a ball in Little Beirut.
Yep. Dad originally put up the money, dad does the actual work, but MP is and always has been the public face of the team. Must be nice to be a rich kid with a toy to play with.
And by all accounts, Henry is also a very well liked and respected owner among the ranks of MLS owners, and he's also involved in several of MLS' operating committees. It's not likely the team will be sold any time soon. Sigh.
Thanks for the facts. I assumed a hefty increase in value. I just wish that ownership (looking at you, Merrit), could care about more than money (and if they do, they should be panicking and I know what they say about wishes). Being wealthy enough to buy a major league franchise with limited competition and practically guaranteed appreciation in value (someday the worm might turn) should come with a bit of responsibility to the community that let’s you get away with it. And, do you really want to be seen as a wanker? I don’t even expect playoffs every year. But without even the threat of relegation, what else is there? You’re selling hope. How many fans are feeling hopeful for this season? If I were a betting man, I’m betting on San Jose on Wednesday. I don’t bet. And, annoyingly, I hope I’m wrong.
That worm won't ever turn. In the US, sports team ownership - in any sport - is an iron-clad guaranteed way to print money. The most famous and extreme example is the New York Yankees, which George Steinbrenner bought for $10 million in (borrowed) money in 1973 and are now worth over six billion dollars to that family. But that's only one example - there is, on the flipside, not a single example of a sports team losing value over time. It just doesn't happen.
But more to your point - I was feeling hopeful, even a month in. But that hope is pretty much gone now, and that's the worst part, because it's a long time until the end of this already-painful season.
Congratulations Timbers, not only is this current iteration an embarrassment to this franchise, but you’ve somehow managed to be smirch the name of your newest sponsor in a way that makes me feel badly that my hometown Tillamook cheese factory sponsors this lifeless performance. I really think this team would’ve been better off being without a sponsor for the entire year. Is it too early for #PhilOut? LOL.
Today was the first time that we've really lost something in the Phil Neville era -- the hilarious unbeaten record against Seattle. To see it end on such a whimper...
Phil is clearly out of ideas. Maybe he figures something out, maybe he gets lucky and the right group of players learn to gel with each other. He's not the worst coach but our gut reaction when he was hired seems to have been correct.
OK, if no one else is going to do it, I will-the Timbers really cut the cheese today and stunk the place up. BTW, Tillamook is mostly Tillamook by name but not but where the milk comes from and who now manages the factory. Anyway, I feel more than ever that I can't justify the cost of the season tickets I have. I don't love soccer enough to keep forking out that kind of money. MAYBE the Thorns are a better option (at least they know how to win) or maybe just attending a game or three per year would be good enough. I've been at this since the beginning of the MLS era here, but I'm not feeling the love anymore.
I find the Thorns to be a pretty joyful antidote to the Timbers. Remember, yesterday they just slayed Seattle 4-1 to a huge and exuberant crowd - If I were in town enough to be STH I would definitely go the Thorns route... as time goes by I find I'm more and more drawn to the team, the atmosphere, the overall experience.
To be fair, I don't think anyone in 2024 thinks Tillamook Creamery is nine farmers at the coast milking cows by hand and then hand-delivering product to local stores any more. Their stuff's available more or less nationwide at this point. I'm just glad an Oregon-based company with a good reputation overall is on the front of the shirt, and not a super-sketch Glengarry Glen Ross-esque organization (or more Providence).
I was told recently by a former manager that worked there than they've now gone to just using the word Tillamook since that's the thing name that remains after out sourcing much of the business. I do love their Vanilla Bean ice cream anyway.
I specifically didn't say "local", because that's not what they are hahaha. They are an Oregon-based cooperative business. They are a very large dairy producer, which carries with it a lot of baggage, but there's no disputing that they are an Oregon company.
As you note, any food producer at this scale is going to be problematic on some level; given that, I will say that Tillamook is very much not as problematic as the Unilevers, Nestles, or Cargills of the world. A low bar to clear, for sure, but for a shirt sponsor, I'll take it, because the local farmer's market I shop at doesn't have the eight figures a year it would take to be on the front of a professional sports team's jersey every week.
It has been years since this team has played well and lost. This team just loses and bad. Even when the score doesn't show it. We have some very smart fans. We know what good soccer looks like. This ain't it. This is 60 and over Sunday league bad. Even worse is the fact that some players don't even look like they want to play. On top of that, Phil seems like a guy that absolutely collapses under pressure. His after game interviews have been terrible. I'm all for calling out players but he should be doing it in private. I like what he is saying about playing for the fans, badge, and not getting complacent. However, the way he is going about it is childish and not how a leader does it. That guy needs to binge star trek next Gen and take some some notes from Picard. I see this going downhill very very fast and it's gonna start with the team. If there are players that are skating by and not giving the effort of a pro, then talk to Ned and Merritt and look for options in the summer.
I feared we'd bottom out this month but thought we'd at least need to lose to San Jose to do it. Guess for once the Timbers have exceeded expectations... Curious what Neville's gonna say about this one.
Honestly, and this may be just my "I just got home from the game" emotion speaking, but I do not give a single shit what Phil Neville has to say about this game or this team at this point. He was the wrong hire, he's done exactly what I thought he would do (be bad at managing), and the Timbers are going nowhere fast for the rest of the year as a result.
The Timbers have no idea what to do with the ball when they have it. They spent almost the entirety of this game passing it laterally, and when they did somehow manage to get the ball in the final third, they basically froze. When they "defend", they don't ever step up to challenge guys who have the ball to try to get it back, or to force a ball carrier to make a bad decision. This team has no fucking clue what it wants to do, and it's infuriating.
There are good players on this team. This team should be better than it is. They are not league-champion good, for sure, but they're an absolutely better team than whatever we've seen for the last two months. That's on the coaching staff - every single one of them. And we're stuck with this staff, in all likelihood, for at least the rest of this season.
The one positive from today is that Tillamook is the shirt sponsor now. Not that I'm going to buy a shirt but it's good to see a sponsor I can get behind (as I dig into a bowl of Tillamook Oregon Dark Cherry to drown my sorrows).
You were right about Phil, my friend. I tried to shoot back and be positive, and I liked what I saw initially, but this team looks really poorly coached in so many aspects. I disagree that the players don’t ever step up to challenge — they do, it’s just way too late when they do. We defend like headless chickens out there, our players run after the ball but they just easily pass to an open teammate. Pressing the ball is all well and good, but our players wait until a player actually has the ball until we apply pressure. That’s not how that should work, we need to be marking players (how the hell is Ruidiaz left along at the top of the 18???) and closing down the passing lanes before the pass actually happens (crazy stuff, I know). We pressed a bit in the first half and Seattle played through us so easily because there was always an open man
"(how the hell is Ruidiaz left along at the top of the 18???)"
That's one of the worst critiques I have of the Timbers today. Ruidiaz is WASHED. He's been bad for almost a year now, and a couple times during set pieces he was walking over by our section, and he could barely walk above a slow limp.
And the Timbers made him look really, really good.
I hated the Nevill hire from the beginning. But this is worse than I expected. Heard most of his comments today and they were almost the same as last week. Apparently he’s a motivator who wants his players to be passionate about playing for the shield and the fans. He promised lineup changes again.
But what is his vision of a style of play? What should these players, once they discover their passion, do on the pitch? Is there a plan A? B? C? As a few pointed out in the game thread, where’s the off-ball movement? Are we really going to rely on long-balls to Rodriguez to break the lines?
I really want a system/tactical coach instead of motivational speakers and “vibes” coaches. How about a well drilled team that can adapt to the competition? And, since I’m ranting, the easiest way to improve the vibes . . . is to win games.
The Timbers last 2 coaching hires are completely sub par and lack any intent to compete. Until we get someone with vision and a style it might as well be 11 marmots playing out there
Yeah I didn't understand this lineup. Like at all. Jonathan is not a winger. So if you are going to play him and mora together, it needs to be in a two striker system. We also had Eric Miller on the right. A guy that can't bomb up the channel. He isn't fast enough to play two ways, so why not put him in a position that allows him to stay back and track back half of the field and not the full field.
He actually played mostly on the wing at his last club. But he was brought in as a 9. Mora however has been scoring which is good but there’s nothing off the bench as a true 9 now. Poor roster management.
Gotta put in another request for Stumptown Footy to not publish the score of the game in the title of the Instant Reaction article, at least not for a day or two??? It functions as a spoiler, especially for those of us who are getting email or other notifications... thanks
9 games with no win. Conceding multiple goals in nearly every match. Zero identity and zero urgency to get results. This is not only on Neville but it’s on the jackass leadership of the club that hired him with a poor mls record and no real other record to speak of. They knew there would be at least an initial bad reaction to his hire due to his sexist remarks in the past. Yet they hired him because they thought he’d be the best candidate to get wins here. The team is not well coached and the organization as a whole has been terrible. Poor off-seasons and questionable signings or just putting a team together in march two years straight (if not more). Time for Merrit to step out and resign and get some new leadership and a new coach.
No way is Paulson going to step away. I don't think performance is an issue when it comes to the value of the club, insofar as the Paulsons are concerned. As low as PTFC is now, it is still only a third of the way through the season, with only one transfer window just gone by... that is to say, there are plenty more opportunities for Phil and his f*ckery and bottom dwelling before anyone feels compelled to do anything about the situation - people wiser than I think we're going to have to put up with this management team for the rest of the season, come what may.
While there is 2/3 of a season left, if ownership and the front office aren’t panicking, they should be. This is one of the deepest holes the team has ever dug. And nothing indicates a quick turnaround. If the Timbers draw or lose on Wednesday, it’s a declaration of intent to win the spoon. Attendance at this derby was not up to the standard. Like last year, it’s hard to sell extra tickets for close to face value of season tickets. There’s no wait list. These are all metrics that matter for team value. Of course, if they sell, they probably make money. That’s the nature of sports ownership. But have some f****ing pride. And if you think you’re the smartest guy in the room, prove it. Otherwise swallow your pride and hire some smarter people.
There's no "probably" about it. MP bought the rights to the Timbers for $35 million, and the most current Forbes (and Sportico, more recently) valuation of the team has them at a worth of over $650M. So there is a very real probability at this point that MP does not give two shits what happens to "his" club at this point, because the minute he sells, he makes a ridiculous amount of money on his (dad's) initial investment.
I'm told Henry Paulson is the majority owner, not his son Merrit, so the ultimate decision may lie with him, right? He might not even be aware of the Timbers record, or even pretend to be a soccer fan, he sees money making money and leaves it at that. Dude's got loftier things to think about than some guys kicking around a ball in Little Beirut.
Yep. Dad originally put up the money, dad does the actual work, but MP is and always has been the public face of the team. Must be nice to be a rich kid with a toy to play with.
And by all accounts, Henry is also a very well liked and respected owner among the ranks of MLS owners, and he's also involved in several of MLS' operating committees. It's not likely the team will be sold any time soon. Sigh.
So why isnt HP more invested in the team's performance? He is into MLS but more as an investment vehicle?
I mean we had several fireable seasons from Gio b4 he was let go, getting rid of Neville after 1 would be an improvement lmao
Thanks for the facts. I assumed a hefty increase in value. I just wish that ownership (looking at you, Merrit), could care about more than money (and if they do, they should be panicking and I know what they say about wishes). Being wealthy enough to buy a major league franchise with limited competition and practically guaranteed appreciation in value (someday the worm might turn) should come with a bit of responsibility to the community that let’s you get away with it. And, do you really want to be seen as a wanker? I don’t even expect playoffs every year. But without even the threat of relegation, what else is there? You’re selling hope. How many fans are feeling hopeful for this season? If I were a betting man, I’m betting on San Jose on Wednesday. I don’t bet. And, annoyingly, I hope I’m wrong.
That worm won't ever turn. In the US, sports team ownership - in any sport - is an iron-clad guaranteed way to print money. The most famous and extreme example is the New York Yankees, which George Steinbrenner bought for $10 million in (borrowed) money in 1973 and are now worth over six billion dollars to that family. But that's only one example - there is, on the flipside, not a single example of a sports team losing value over time. It just doesn't happen.
But more to your point - I was feeling hopeful, even a month in. But that hope is pretty much gone now, and that's the worst part, because it's a long time until the end of this already-painful season.
> That worm won't ever turn.
Yeah, especially with the fragmentation of the rest of the entertainment industry.
Would you arbitrarily sell an asset that increased tens of millions dollars every year?
So here are things I've been wrong about so far this season:
1. The Timbers will have a good defense (I still maintain that on paper, this is true, buuuuuuuuut here we are)
2. The Timbers will be better than they were in 2023 - a playoff team, if not a deep-run playoff team
3. The Timbers will not have a shirt sponsor until next season
So. Based on that stellar track record of accuracy, I am now going to boldly predict that Phil Neville will last the entire season as manager.
I certainly hope your track record holds.
Congratulations Timbers, not only is this current iteration an embarrassment to this franchise, but you’ve somehow managed to be smirch the name of your newest sponsor in a way that makes me feel badly that my hometown Tillamook cheese factory sponsors this lifeless performance. I really think this team would’ve been better off being without a sponsor for the entire year. Is it too early for #PhilOut? LOL.
It wasn't too early in game one, it's not too early now. It won't happen yet, but my god it needs to.
Today was the first time that we've really lost something in the Phil Neville era -- the hilarious unbeaten record against Seattle. To see it end on such a whimper...
Phil is clearly out of ideas. Maybe he figures something out, maybe he gets lucky and the right group of players learn to gel with each other. He's not the worst coach but our gut reaction when he was hired seems to have been correct.
As for the players: yikes
Good thing we got rid of Gio…..
Getting rid of Gio was the right move. It was hiring Phil that was the misstep.
For reallllll if your gonna say something that delusional at least form some kind of logic to support it
Which part would you like me to support? I'm happy to support either one, because both parts are pretty easily supportable. Just let me know.
(unless this wasn't a response to me)
no the other guy, was agreeing with you
hahaha yeah I realized that like 5 min after I commented so I edited
Amen, Neville's incompetence in no way vindicates Gio's incompetence.
OK, if no one else is going to do it, I will-the Timbers really cut the cheese today and stunk the place up. BTW, Tillamook is mostly Tillamook by name but not but where the milk comes from and who now manages the factory. Anyway, I feel more than ever that I can't justify the cost of the season tickets I have. I don't love soccer enough to keep forking out that kind of money. MAYBE the Thorns are a better option (at least they know how to win) or maybe just attending a game or three per year would be good enough. I've been at this since the beginning of the MLS era here, but I'm not feeling the love anymore.
I find the Thorns to be a pretty joyful antidote to the Timbers. Remember, yesterday they just slayed Seattle 4-1 to a huge and exuberant crowd - If I were in town enough to be STH I would definitely go the Thorns route... as time goes by I find I'm more and more drawn to the team, the atmosphere, the overall experience.
I'm with you there. I'll watch the Timbers, but I'm more invested with the Thorns. Great players, great energy, just a lot of fun to watch!
4-0! The Thorns beat S*attle by FOUR goals, not just three.
Why in the hell did I give Seattle that goal?!
To be fair, I don't think anyone in 2024 thinks Tillamook Creamery is nine farmers at the coast milking cows by hand and then hand-delivering product to local stores any more. Their stuff's available more or less nationwide at this point. I'm just glad an Oregon-based company with a good reputation overall is on the front of the shirt, and not a super-sketch Glengarry Glen Ross-esque organization (or more Providence).
I was told recently by a former manager that worked there than they've now gone to just using the word Tillamook since that's the thing name that remains after out sourcing much of the business. I do love their Vanilla Bean ice cream anyway.
I specifically didn't say "local", because that's not what they are hahaha. They are an Oregon-based cooperative business. They are a very large dairy producer, which carries with it a lot of baggage, but there's no disputing that they are an Oregon company.
As you note, any food producer at this scale is going to be problematic on some level; given that, I will say that Tillamook is very much not as problematic as the Unilevers, Nestles, or Cargills of the world. A low bar to clear, for sure, but for a shirt sponsor, I'll take it, because the local farmer's market I shop at doesn't have the eight figures a year it would take to be on the front of a professional sports team's jersey every week.
Last place, huh? That's also where Miami was when Neville was there. Can we just call it "Neville place"?
As my dad used to say, water finds its level.
It has been years since this team has played well and lost. This team just loses and bad. Even when the score doesn't show it. We have some very smart fans. We know what good soccer looks like. This ain't it. This is 60 and over Sunday league bad. Even worse is the fact that some players don't even look like they want to play. On top of that, Phil seems like a guy that absolutely collapses under pressure. His after game interviews have been terrible. I'm all for calling out players but he should be doing it in private. I like what he is saying about playing for the fans, badge, and not getting complacent. However, the way he is going about it is childish and not how a leader does it. That guy needs to binge star trek next Gen and take some some notes from Picard. I see this going downhill very very fast and it's gonna start with the team. If there are players that are skating by and not giving the effort of a pro, then talk to Ned and Merritt and look for options in the summer.
I feared we'd bottom out this month but thought we'd at least need to lose to San Jose to do it. Guess for once the Timbers have exceeded expectations... Curious what Neville's gonna say about this one.
Honestly, and this may be just my "I just got home from the game" emotion speaking, but I do not give a single shit what Phil Neville has to say about this game or this team at this point. He was the wrong hire, he's done exactly what I thought he would do (be bad at managing), and the Timbers are going nowhere fast for the rest of the year as a result.
The Timbers have no idea what to do with the ball when they have it. They spent almost the entirety of this game passing it laterally, and when they did somehow manage to get the ball in the final third, they basically froze. When they "defend", they don't ever step up to challenge guys who have the ball to try to get it back, or to force a ball carrier to make a bad decision. This team has no fucking clue what it wants to do, and it's infuriating.
There are good players on this team. This team should be better than it is. They are not league-champion good, for sure, but they're an absolutely better team than whatever we've seen for the last two months. That's on the coaching staff - every single one of them. And we're stuck with this staff, in all likelihood, for at least the rest of this season.
The one positive from today is that Tillamook is the shirt sponsor now. Not that I'm going to buy a shirt but it's good to see a sponsor I can get behind (as I dig into a bowl of Tillamook Oregon Dark Cherry to drown my sorrows).
You were right about Phil, my friend. I tried to shoot back and be positive, and I liked what I saw initially, but this team looks really poorly coached in so many aspects. I disagree that the players don’t ever step up to challenge — they do, it’s just way too late when they do. We defend like headless chickens out there, our players run after the ball but they just easily pass to an open teammate. Pressing the ball is all well and good, but our players wait until a player actually has the ball until we apply pressure. That’s not how that should work, we need to be marking players (how the hell is Ruidiaz left along at the top of the 18???) and closing down the passing lanes before the pass actually happens (crazy stuff, I know). We pressed a bit in the first half and Seattle played through us so easily because there was always an open man
"(how the hell is Ruidiaz left along at the top of the 18???)"
That's one of the worst critiques I have of the Timbers today. Ruidiaz is WASHED. He's been bad for almost a year now, and a couple times during set pieces he was walking over by our section, and he could barely walk above a slow limp.
And the Timbers made him look really, really good.
I hated the Nevill hire from the beginning. But this is worse than I expected. Heard most of his comments today and they were almost the same as last week. Apparently he’s a motivator who wants his players to be passionate about playing for the shield and the fans. He promised lineup changes again.
But what is his vision of a style of play? What should these players, once they discover their passion, do on the pitch? Is there a plan A? B? C? As a few pointed out in the game thread, where’s the off-ball movement? Are we really going to rely on long-balls to Rodriguez to break the lines?
I really want a system/tactical coach instead of motivational speakers and “vibes” coaches. How about a well drilled team that can adapt to the competition? And, since I’m ranting, the easiest way to improve the vibes . . . is to win games.
The Timbers last 2 coaching hires are completely sub par and lack any intent to compete. Until we get someone with vision and a style it might as well be 11 marmots playing out there
Yeah I didn't understand this lineup. Like at all. Jonathan is not a winger. So if you are going to play him and mora together, it needs to be in a two striker system. We also had Eric Miller on the right. A guy that can't bomb up the channel. He isn't fast enough to play two ways, so why not put him in a position that allows him to stay back and track back half of the field and not the full field.
This team needed to be in a 3-4-1-2.
Jon mora
Moreno
Antony Paredes chara masqu
Eric. Miller zup
Rodriguez has said that he prefers playing wide, which is why he moved there when Mora got healthy.
Timbers have consistently let their coaches misplay players with ZERO consequences for years now. If I was a player I wouldn't want to play here
He actually played mostly on the wing at his last club. But he was brought in as a 9. Mora however has been scoring which is good but there’s nothing off the bench as a true 9 now. Poor roster management.
"When they "defend", they don't ever step up to challenge guys who have the ball to try to get it back"
There's a training video where Neville said he never wanted to see players go in on a challenge 1 v 1 without back up or some such.
Why though? It can't help their careers to "quiet quit". They sure looked like they didn't GAF, I'm wondering what has taken away their drive.