They got a lot of what they wanted, including substantial raises, which is good for them. They'll be back for this weekend; no news on whether the 2024 rule changes that were paused will be introduced this weekend as well.
I made a video of all the touches from Williamson and Evander this game since it's been a big talking point of whether these two can work together. Also, copyright (among other things, this is like my eighth time trying to upload this damn thing) got on my ass and blocked the video everywhere so I had to trim down a lot of the plays I'd normally leave in, making this much more choppy than normal. Anyways, I had several takeaways from basically rewatching this game, so I'll copy and paste them here:
- Williamson had an excellent first half. He made only one or two bad passes and never got the ball taken off him. But he was super active, getting on the ball a lot and connecting quite well with Moreno and Mosquera on the right flank. There are a few times he got the ball, and drove across the field, opening up space as well as breaking Philly’s press. In the second half he wasn’t nearly as effective. I’m not sure what changed, but his passes weren’t great, and he did not link up with Evander well.
- Evander was the weak link a lot of the game, but especially in the first half. He had two good shots, but really didn’t do much else and lost the ball a few times. Bad first half. He came to life as the second half went on as we were just causing chaos and he was able to get on the ball more though, and he was involved in a lot of our plays. Later in the game he really took the responsibility of the game on his shoulders, he was constantly looking to get on the ball and make something happen.
- I’m going to say something here that may sound crazy, but hear me out: I think we need our players to have a similar mindset about Evander as Miami players have about Messi. Miami players. Miami players (like Robert Taylor) told the media that whenever Messi gets the ball, they just run. That’s their responsibility, just run into space, because they know Messi has the quality to find them. Now Evander of course doesn’t have the quality of Messi, but goddamn he has some serious quality. And not only that, but he’s ALWAYS looking for a pass in behind he can play. I noticed that he dribbled back and forth a bunch in the second half with his head up, just waiting for someone to make a run in behind, and it rarely happened. Asprilla did it once and they created a chance (bad cross from Dairon). When Evander has the ball, our players have to make forward/diagonal runs. Like, just go. Evander has the quality, he will find that amazing pass 4/5 times.
- Defensively I didn’t really notice anything wrong this game. I had to cut out Philly’s second goal (thanks copyright) but that was definitely a moment where Williamson should’ve stepped, although I don’t entirely blame that goal on him (it was a bad pass from Moreno that gave the ball away, Williamson was trying to make a progressive play that I like). Other than that things were find besides the few bad attempted tackles here and there. However, against high possession teams fielding a better team, I do think it might be a problem. I don’t want to just assume that though because Williamson and Evander are both so talented.
- I don’t believe we have proof that these two don’t work together. It’s their third game. Now there are several times where they try to connect with each other and just aren’t on the same page, but again, I want to believe it’s just a lack of chemistry. People rightfully point out that because they’re so similar in their playstyle that means they won’t work together, but I think it’s equally possible that could be a reason they could work together in some instances. Again, “could.” I have not seen evidence one way or another, but I do want to see more.
- We basically went entirely down the right side the first half, and yes it was lopsided, but man it worked. A lot. Pretty much all of our chances came from that side. It was lopsided but it was lopsided with a purpose, and when our passing was on point, we were able to create something. When Bravo comes back I definitely want to see more down the left, but I think this was a good tactical setup for this game.
- The second half we changed, we tried to be more attacking down the left and it just didn’t work with Miller and Antony. Williamson or Evander would drop into the space left by the fullback who pushed forward, and would get on the ball to progress play there. Moreno played even more inverted, basically next to Rodriguez for much of the half, and gave Mosquera the entirety of that flank, which I’m sure was something Neville told him to do since Antony basically did the same whenever they switched flanks. All of this did not work, we did not create much of anything in the second half. Clearly Neville tried different things and some of them worked and some didn’t, and I don’t entirely mind that. I just hope this leads to growth.
- A random note: McGraw is not a ball playing center back obviously and that was a problem this game, but outside of a few plays where he was just left out to defend open space against an onrushing forward (I do not expect him or many CBs to defend that well), he actually had a pretty spotless game defensively. Dominant in the air as always.
Great job on the video! I think I said this already in an earlier post, but I thought Williamson played well, but as usual, he fades in the second half. Phil has a watchful eye and pulls him when appropriate.
The problem is - and I think you touched on it - there are too many guys who like to play with the ball. Moreno, Williamson and of course, Evander, are all players who need the ball. The Timbers would probably be better off without one of them on the field. Honestly, who would you rather be orchestrating, Williamson or Evander? For me, Evander is an 8 and should be on the ball. Not that Williamson isn't doing a good job, because he can, but I think Evander is the one who needs to be pulling the strings. I've never been sold with Moreno as a winger, simply because he doesn't act like one, and seems to do his best work in the middle of the park. But that is not my main point here. I'd rather they had a winger in place of Moreno and he played inside with Evander, and even played more of a 10 and a little 8. I think they would wreck havoc together. I do think they will have success with Moreno as a wing, but he doesn't run off the ball, and that doesn't take advantage of Evander.
I think the key is they need to run off the ball, like you mentioned, and it ain't happening with the players they have.
McGraw isn't skilled enough IMO and sometimes makes mistakes in playing out of the back or when winning the ball that puts the defense in a vulnerable position. I think he's also poor in positioning, and needs to improve. There is no doubt that he can clear the heck out of the ball and wins headers. He kind of had a Mabiala game - pretty good throughout but a crucial mistake that leads to a goal. I love the guy, and hope he can improve, but I worry about his speed.
This was an extremely frustrating game, I have a few random thoughts so we’ll see where this takes me.
I thought the first half was actually quite good, we created several great chances just couldn’t finish. Rodriguez looked absolutely electric, he made many great runs and just made his presence known up top. I’m really excited to see more from him, I think he’s going to do really well. We gave up a goal but I was still feeling ok going into the second half. The second half was much worse, we struggled to create chances as Philly sat deeper. Stupid giveaways and defensive lapses led to the second and third goals, and we never really looked like a threat. It was incredible disheartening.
Philly clogged up the middle of the field, completely taking Eryk and Evander out of the game almost entirely. I didn’t think either of them were necessarily good or bad, just ineffective. It’s just their third ever game starting together, so jury is still out as to whether they will work together. Since the had that midfield clogged up with the 4-4-2 diamond, we needed more cross field switches. We needed to spread that diamond out. But instead, we were ponderous, just passing the ball back and forth along the back line. That’s cool, but we needed to switch things up. Those passes allow the defense to shift and be set. Bigger passes and switches of play were needed, and I think we only hit one or two all game, in the second half (I forgot if it was Evander or Ayala). We need to be braver in possession instead of always going for the easy pass. I believe both Evander and Eryk are capable of doing that and do it often, but they didn’t this game, I’m not sure why. I really hope Phil isn’t instructing them to not play long.
Antony has great defensive ability actually, but besides his goals, he’s been largely ineffective on offense to start this year. The one play I thought he did well was when he was on the right side, and he was able to take his defender on, get to the end line, and put in a dangerous cross. He’s so right footed, so it’s easy to predict what he’s going to do every time. I’d like to see him more on the right side, I think he can be more dangerous there. Yes he will still be predictable, but because he’s so fast there just won’t be much defenders can do about it. The problem is they have Moreno on that side so he can tuck in and Mosquera can bomb down the wing, which makes sense. They have good chemistry and are good friends off and on the field, but I think they look for each other too much. They always look to combine with each other even if it doesn’t make sense. It comes off many times but they also lose the ball many times, and leave us exposed. I just think we need to switch things up a bit.
I think Phil let us down with the subs. 65th minute down 2-0, and he puts Antony as a left back with a gassed Mosquera on the right. I get he wanted more offense, but that was way too early to move to that formation imo. 2-0 is called the most dangerous lead in soccer for a reason, there was still plenty of time to salvage that game. Would we have? I don’t know, but we gave the game up with that plan. The foul that led to the third goal comes because Antony is too far up the field (not his fault, those were his instructions) and Zuparic had no one to pass to. A foul gets committed and the defense is all out of wack, and Philly capitalize. I thought his move to take Chara off and bring Ayala on was the right one, but taking Miller off and putting Antony at LB was the wrong call. I would’ve rather him take Mosquera off and put Antony there. I believe a team balance is necessary to scoring goals — it was too early for chaos ball.
Speaking of Ayala, he was great off the bench as he always is. Broke lines with his passing and opened up the play because he made longer passes that no one else would. I was happy to see Phil say that he’s pushing for a starting spot, because he absolutely should be. I would love to see him get a run of games out, maybe as the 8 but maybe as the 6, which is a position I think he’s much better suited for. Perhaps it’s time to give Chara a rest, I don’t know. I have my reservations about that but man I just want to see him play. It’s his third year with the team, he’s earned it.
I cannot wait to get Bravo back, I thought Miller was quite poor this game. Not entirely his fault (although I do put the blame for the second goal on him, which really killed our momentum) since he’s more defensive and not suited to progress the ball from the back which we desperately needed him to do. Badly. Bravo does that and I can’t wait. The same goes for McGraw… I love him to death and think he’s great, but he’s a good (I’d argue great) defender, not a good distributor. And definitely not good defending in space, which is all there is to defend when Mosquera is pushed so far up the field. If Phil wants us to play a more possession oriented style like this (and I understand not every team will play like Philly did), McGraw might not be the person to start. Start him vs a Houston who will take all the possession, but maybe not vs a team that will sit back and play in transition.
I want to continue to be positive on this team and I do believe Phil has made some steady improvements with this team in possession, but this game stung. A lot. A shorthanded Philly team who started the league with three draws should be an easy win at home. Instead, we got pummeled, and honestly looked like we might lose 4 or 5-0 after that third goal went in. Yes, if we make our chances in the first half we will win that game 9/10 times, but I don’t want to keep saying that. We haven’t been good enough in front of goal. Hopefully Rodriguez changes that (I mean seriously, I thought he was awesome). Phil really needs to work with this team on getting the ball into our midfielders consistently. Evander and Williamson are some of our most talented players, we can’t just allow a team to easily take them out of the game like that. It was simply not good enough. Phil has a lot to prove here
I agree with pretty much everything you say here. Moreno played on the left when he first got here and was pretty effective, even though he was all right foot. For the sake of shaking it up, maybe Moreno and Antony could switch sides.
Big switches were needed, but that would probably have to come from the six, and Chara is probably less inclined to do it - not because he can't but he plays it fairly safe and he's not on the ball a lot. Ayala would work pretty well in that role. I also think they could have shifted one of the midfielders outside in the buildup to create a mismatch in numbers and space and keep one in the middle. I don't know - tactically they were figuring it out, it just was really slow in developing.
I think as I mentioned before, we could have done better with replacements for McGraw and Chara. But in McGraw's case, Mabiala (a better passer, but even slower) would have been on and that doesn't sound like a good plan ,either.
They played down the right a ton - I don't know if that was the plan or it just happened like that, but it ended up looking like three in the back because Miller stayed pretty even with the other two CBs.
Switches can come from center backs — doesn’t have to be a switch, but a lofted ball into a winger or a high full back (Mosquera) from the opposite sided center back. One of our good chances in the first half came from this exact play if you watch the highlights back, where Zuparic plays a lofted ball into Mosquera on the far side to Mosquera, and him and Moreno are essentially 2v2 on that side now. They completely school the defenders and got Mosquera in on goal. We needed more of that! Those long switches create isolated situations. McGraw doesn’t have that pass in his locker usually. Zuparic does sometimes but often gets the pass wrong. Miller probably does, Mabiala does but he shouldn’t be playing, and who knows if Araujo does. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Araujo
Eric Miller shouldn't ever be a starter, and Saturday night showed why. He's useful depth, but with callups and injuries, he was forced into a role he's not suitable for, and it cost the Timbers dearly. I'm not sure what else Phil could have done given the current state of the roster, so I can't really blame it on him, but it sucks.
"Yes, if we make our chances in the first half we will win that game 9/10 times, but I don’t want to keep saying that."
I know people like to bag on xG as a thing, and I have serious issues with people using xG in-game as it's fairly useless within a single game, but this team has so far underperformed its season xG (by almost three goals, depending on whose xG model you believe). What that tells me is two things: they're creating good chances overall, as we saw on Saturday in the first half, and that over time they'll start putting away the chances they create. I'm really not too worried about the offense in general. The defense, on the other hand, which I was hopeful about before the season...woof.
"Perhaps it’s time to give Chara a rest, I don’t know. I have my reservations about that"
I'm not sure where I land on that debate right now, but I am also not one to staff a starting lineup based on nostalgia. Diego Chara is a club legend, who should have at least one statue and probably a stand and maybe a stadium and probably a charitable foundation (Charatable?) named after him, and when he retires, I want to petition the city to rename the stretch of 20th that runs behind the stadium after him, and I'm sure I'll think of other tributes too.
BUT.
He is human, and he is fallible, and if the team is better with him rotating in and out of the lineup, or taking a night off, then that's what needs to happen. Neither he nor anyone else should be written on the lineup sheet in permanent ink, because that's not how sports works.
"It was simply not good enough. Phil has a lot to prove here"
I said before the game that this was a big test for Phil. To be blunt, he failed. I'm not hitting the panic button yet, but I'm hitting the much more nuanced "I really need to start seeing some improvements sooner rather than later, man" button, I think.
In terms of the xG thing, it’s weird because we started by over performing and now we’re under performing these last two games. I also don’t like using xG that much and ESPECIALLY not for a single game, but mannnn we had so many high quality chances this game in the first half, we really got unlucky to not find the back of the net. Evander and Rodriguez both missing from 10 yards out is just tough luck.
I have a few thoughts about benching Chara. First is that he’s our captain. He’s our leader. He talks to everyone and organizes things. Ayala is 21, and he communicates a ton on the field, but he’s not a leader or the captain. Benching Chara would be a HUGE statement by Phil, it would be massive story, but I also think Phil might have the balls to do it given how he treated Higuaín in Miami. I’m just afraid that it will disorganize the team on the field. Also, Ayala isn’t as positionally disciplined yet… he has tons of energy, which I love, but he will often get out of position because he loves to win the ball almost too much. I also believe that Chara has actually had a pretty good start to this year. Benching him isn’t about him underperforming, it’s about if Ayala can be an upgrade.
Now, I’m impulse for maybe wanting to see Ayala start over Chara is a little selfish: I just love Ayala, I think he’s amazing and I want to see him get more game time. But on top of that, it’s also possible he fits the game model better. Chara is great, but he doesn’t get on the ball that much anymore, and doesn’t make game breaking passes. Ayala can. Something I love about him is that he’s *always* looking to get on the ball. He will drop deep or run around until he finds the space (which can be another concern about his positioning), and he demands the ball when he gets there. He’s got so many passes in his locker, he constantly looks to break lines and he can hit those big switches I was talking about. He’s very hard-nosed and will get stuck in, he loves a good tackle, although can be a big Bravo-like and be overeager, and then getting beat. But overall he’s probably much better in possession and could potentially open the game up for us, creating more chances.
So the question is that when we play a game like this where we are going to have all the possession at home, do we try to play Ayala over Chara? Honestly, I’d say yes. Also maybe start Zuparic or Araujo over McGraw since he’s not good on the ball either. Then if we play a team on the road that’s more possession oriented, we can put McGraw and Chara back in. It’s a dangerous game as you generally want to have the same starting lineup each game to build chemistry, but maybe this is worth a shot. But there’s a big risk to it with all the reasons I listed earlier.
At the end of the day I’m not going to be down on Phil if he does or doesn’t bench Chara here and there as it’s a choice with intangible positives and negatives, but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. I believe Ayala has earned more minutes, but who will it come at the cost to? Williamson? Chara? Evander? Paredes? I don’t know
I’m not sure what button I’m pressing yet as I’m really enjoying watching this team play — much more than I did under Gio the past two years — and I do think there’s good changes that Phil is making, but as players get healthier the excuses will start to go away. He needs to step up
"Benching him isn’t about him underperforming, it’s about if Ayala can be an upgrade."
Exactly, which is why framing it as a "benching", while that might just be semantics on my part, is kind of the wrong way to look at it. Chara's game is a throwback - he plays a style I love, but it's not exactly the way a lot of teams, including the Timbers, want to play now, and the only way to determine whether the Timbers can indeed play that way with the players they have is to start a game without Chara to see what that looks like.
If that doesn't work, or even if it sort of does, bring Chara back to do his Chara things! I don't want to sunset him the way I wanted to quickly ride both Valeri and Blanco off to the end of their careers, because Chara's decline phase is proving to be waaaaaaaaaay more gradual than both of theirs. But it's still there, and this team has to evaluate what a post-Chara, or even a post-Chara-playing-every-minute-of-every-game, looks like.
The only way to do that is to make the unpopular-with-the-fans move of sitting him. But it's the right move to figure out what this team can be both with and without him.
I agree, although maybe it’s not that time in the season quite yet. Only five games in, we’re still fourth in the standings, and we’re about to be on the road a bunch against some really high quality teams. After that we have an easier stretch, and if we feel the same then at that point it’s probably time to try some things. Unless it all goes horribly wrong, which I don’t anticipate *KNOCK ON WOOD*
I think you make a really good point about Ayala - is it really an upgrade - offensively yes, but defensively (mainly from a positional awareness standpoint) no. Then, I'd say he should be paired with a Paredes, who minds the store a little bit more mindfully. But that would mean Williamson takes a seat, and that's not necessarily the best move. So, if you have your two best CBs in Zup and K. Miller then you wouldn't have to play Paredes, perhaps, and you could keep Williamson on. Or, play Ayala as an 8 and keep Chara on. I think to keep defenses honest you have to be able to play some guys in behind, like an Antony, and someone like Ayala might be more inclined to try it. Antony probably would also benefit with Bravo, who can create some space on the dribble. Honestly, though, Evander should be the eight, but that's another issue.
I think the depth is such that Phil will have a lot of options at his disposal and it will be up to him to choose wisely. I think he will. I see a lot of potential. We do need to get some points while we are working it out, though, and dropping points at home is going to haunt us later on.
I actually think with the right combinations of players, we should try or be able to be on the front foot always, whether on the road, tough opponent, etc, especially if we have our best backline in.
I'm going to trust that Phil will know the right combinations of players and when Ayala is ready. I mean, if the guy is killing it in practice and shows well in his minutes, etc, then his time to start will come.
The result is disappointing. There are some positives, or at least some differences from previous teams.
1. Possession - There was a lot of patience to work it out of the back in the first half, especially. Previous teams after one or two passes in the back would have launched one up to a forward for a 50-50 ball and hope for the best and it was usually a chaotic brand of soccer. I saw a lot of patience from the back, and that led to some good chances in the first half. I think this is part of the learning curve. It's too bad they weren't rewarded for it to get the validation.
2. Working hard the entire game - I didn't see any let up or lack of effort the entire game. They were working hard to win the ball back and attack. The subs brought a different element to the game, and it was nice to see there is depth to challenge not only the opponent, but also provide competition within the squad.
General observation - Mistakes cost the team a result. Philly basically pounced on mistakes, and they set up for a result, whereas the Timbers could actually grow from this loss a lot more than Philly will grow from a win.
tactically - Phil knows a lot more about this than I do, but with Philly's diamond compacting the middle, why not have full backs not so far up to draw the side diamond guy wide and then use the midfielder to advance, and maybe through a big switch or through to a higher wing player. They were slow to work it around in general, but they got better at it as they figured it out.
Individually - Williamson did pretty well, I thought, but he does wear down in the second half of games and Phil has a good read on when to sub him. In general he helped keep possession and break lines. He started giving some hospital balls in the second half - hence the sub. Mosquera played fairly well too. They seemed to tilt the field to the right and he got a lot of action and helped set up some good chances. Jonathan R - I love this guy! His touch and saucy flicks. Get him the ball and good things will happen.
On the tactics - we were much too slow to shift in the back and midfield with the ball. I think Philly knew we were too slow, so let us have possession and waited for their chance to counter (which we gave them, several times). We just kept making the same passes back and forth with marked central players (due to said diamond) and wide players who were open, but we were too slow to get the passes to them.
Seemed like one of those times that a field general should have corrected things 15 minutes in, but nobody was speaking up.
I think there are two players who are exposed a bit right now - McGraw and Chara. Playing possession and a higher line, McGraw is exposed by his skill set (not good enough on the ball and slow and game awareness), and Chara doesn't always show and go for the ball. He does well when he does, but he isn't taking on that responsibility all the time IMO.
Phil is playing a game designed for the players he wished he had instead of the ones he has. He's trying to run a modern, build out of the back in possession attack and then high pressing without the ball. He wants his fullbacks involved high in the attack. Sadly, he doesn't have Saliba and Van Dyke at centerback and he doesn't have Rodri at holding mid. He's got a couple of well meaning slugs at centerback and a 100 year old Diego Chara instead. I'm frankly astounded on how slow McGraw is. I did not remember that. It's Phil who needs to adjust. Otherwise, be prepared to suffer run throughs like last night all season long. Bunker and counter will be the gospel of playing against Portland.
I take a bit of heart from the fact that even though teams have "figured us out" by packing numbers into the midfield, we still get a significant number of good chances to score. However, at some point the team will need to figure out how to play from the back. Those first few minutes of Zuparic hanging around with nowhere to pass were a big warning sign.
Defense really let us down, but goals change games. Timbers were at a significant disadvantage once we missed twice and their half-chance went in. Philly did well to pounce on our weakness and our need to advance numbers
- creativity and movement in the final third has been the biggest improvement. This has actually made for entertaining soccer for the first time in years.
- midfield is a mixed bag. Not enough cover for our D.
- defense has not been good. P and C have had to save their bacon multiple times a game. Mosquera is a wingback not a right back. Without cover behind him, you take chances. E Miller is clearly a DC stuck out wide. How you can build a squad with no depth at DR and DL, it wobbles the mind.
- the xG…. at some point they have to start scoring more, but the chance that they make the POs giving up the chances they do…
Why does Jonathan Rodriguez look familiar to me? Have the Timbers played against him before?
For some reason, I'm not as negative on the Timbers as I normally would be with the kind of results (or lack thereof) we've been getting so far. It seems like the pieces are there for a good team. Good to see Mora back and for better or worse, it will be good to get Bravo back, if for no other reason than the speed he brings.
I am not impressed with Kamal Miller so far. When it comes to grit and heady play, Zup still feels like the best CB we have. Zac is solid in limited space but with this system where we leave the two CB all alone in space, he looks like a tortoise trying to hang with any forward player.
Zup was responsible for the first goal. Still don’t know why he was on the ground. Neither did Moreno who was looking at him like what are you doing down there. Zup has become mabiala to me. He is a step slow so he cheats. Drops early. Takes a walk about or two a game. Our keeper took one off the face because Zup went and tackled Chara
As to our offense. I get the frustration. Should be better right? Except people have been injured and then you bring in a new guy so this was the first game experience for this group together. I liked what I saw in the first half. I liked the ball movement. The speed. Working it down one side and back if it wasn’t there. We are lamenting a 3-1 loss. But those chances we whiffed on on the first half? Game is 2 or 3 to 1 at half if those go. Sometimes you get em like Colorado. Sometimes you don’t. What I did like though is guys were in dangerous places. Those were all repeatable things.
Small sample sizes, but the team is now underperforming on xG whereas previously they were overperforming. That's better over the long run, especially with 2 veteran strikers on the roster
With K. Miller and M. Crepeau back for this weekend, we'll be in good shape defensively. Phil has been harping on being ruthless in front of goal and I like it. I think it's just a mentality that you want to bang in goals and rip out the will of the opponent. It takes relentless attacking and never letting off the pedal. I'd like to see improvement in that area this week.
I've said "we'll be in good shape defensively" several times this year and been burned each time. I hope you're right this time, because I'd like to see improvement in the defensive area far more than anything else. Attacking is going reasonably well, and finishing will come if the attacking progresses as it has done over the last few games. Defending is the worry for me.
I like the pairing of K. Miller and Zup, and I think we'll be fine defensively, or at least it's a good base.
The Timbers through the past several years have been a counter punch team, and it seems Phil wants to change that culture and start throwing jabs and not just absorb blows. The addition of Jonathan R is going to help, and I think some guys are going to have to step up their game and be more two way players. You lose the ball, then get it back quickly. You get the ball, then don't lose it and work hard to advance it. Simple, I know, but that's what he's working on and it will be fairly easy to see who fits and who doesn't.
Set piece defending is a huge problem for this team, as is defensive positioning in general. It was thus for Gio's teams, and it's proving so for Phil's so far. Until the mental mistakes are eliminated, until the defenders are switched on 100% of the time, it doesn't matter who's out there; this team will be weak defensively, despite the individual qualities of the defenders on the pitch.
Have a defensive plan/identity, buy into it, implement it. Every forward pass we made, Philly was all over that player for the entire game. It was hard to find a pass and they contested every pass. In response, Players need to constantly move to find space and receive the ball, stop ball watching. If they don’t want the ball at their feet, then get off the field. Another blasphemous thought, Chara doesn’t offer much offensively but Ayala does. Maybe we need to get him more minutes as he seemed to add a little when he came on. Evander and Williamson/Paredes (Paredes did this when he came in) need to get on the ball and advance it to the wings or to Santi. On the back line, Zup, in my opinion, should be on the field in a 3 back. He may not be fast, can’t jump, makes the occasional mistake, but also saves goals, throws his body around and is assertive.
I agree about Ayala. Paredes did ok, but he just kinda launched the ball forward, which is his MO, and that works in a chaotic-we-need-a-goal kind of way, but not in a systematic break a low block down kind of way. Long term, I'm hoping Phil can unlock Paredes and make him a better player, because there really is no better ball winner on the club.
If the Timbers can continue to create like they did in the first 30 or so minutes of this game, I am not even remotely worried about the offense. Those were some good chances, and on another night, more of them will go in. They were patient, they moved the ball well, and everyone - including Rodriguez, he of exactly two days of work with his new team - seemed to know what they wanted to do and where they needed to be. That was encouraging.
And then there's the "defense". I honestly don't know what's going on back there. We can talk all we want about building out from the back, and attacking down the wings, and all those encouraging things, but until the defenders do what they're paid to do - DEFEND - none of the rest of that 21st century every-player-attack-all-the-time soccer stuff will matter. They fall asleep on set pieces far too often, they get crossed up under pressure a lot, and they lose their shape waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. I had a lot of confidence in this defense coming into the season; I didn't think they were going to be elite, best-in-MLS level, but with the two additions they made, I thought they'd be an upgrade on last year, and I thought Miller would help stabilize the back line in particular.
Based on what I've seen so far this season, I was wrong. And the worrisome thing is, I'm not even seeing incremental improvement at the back over last year, which means that it's a problem both of personnel and of coaching. I don't know how soccer coaching staffs work, if they're like the NFL where every assistant has a specific brief or if they all have a hand in everything, but whoever is primarily responsible for defensive coaching just isn't getting the job done. Not even close.
It is way too early to start calling for heads at this point, but if things don't start changing soon, by the time summer rolls around, new defensive players and probably a new assistant coach or two might be a good idea. Because this isn't sustainable.
Some of this is tactical. Last night Neville kept pushing Mosquera way too high. I was in 119 and I could regularly see Phil waving him higher, which honestly, I did not understand. He was often past the midfielders with the ball a McGraw's feet. That made our back four a back three. Evander doesn't defend at all. But cabecito would make a run and still track back to Z14 or the wing. That was awesome to see. I am way more excited by him as a player than I was before this game. He was everywhere trying to win balls back, working really hard off the ball and many times he and Moreno were just slightly off in their connections.
Another issue I noticed was Zuparic. The whole back line was trying to pass past him and limit his interactions - at least in the first 35 and I could see Zac take way too much time on the ball searching for his outlets.
Lastly, Kamal Miller is a miss for us but we lack a true start back four. E. Miller is a sub on every team in the MLS. Bravo is not great (hurt, i know). And we need some serious depth back there. I also noticed that DChara is not as fast nor as quick and I think he covered a lot of our defensive liabilities until the last two seasons when he began to slow. I would like to see more minutes for Williamson in that role
Gio did the exact same thing with Mosquera. It makes sense in theory but hasn’t worked. I think Mosquera needs space to run into, and I feel like it’s probably easier to defend since Mosquera will be running backwards to receive the ball more often than not.
Getting Bravo back will be massive, we needed Miller to be able to progress the ball either with his passing or his dribbling and he can do neither. This just isn’t the type of game he excels in. Bravo would’ve helped so much
I just don’t get it. I’m just a casual fan. I don’t know a lot about tactics. Even I can see you should not have two slow CB’s creep toward midfield trying, and failing, to ignite the attack. All it takes is one small miscue, a bad touch or a bad pass, and your CB is chasing the counter and he’s way behind. That’s what happened on the second goal. Philly knew it, and pounced. This looks like round peg, square hole from last year. Again.
First game in person and what a disappointment. Only bright spot was Rodriguez getting his first. Timbers look SO poor in the midfield. Williamson was out of sorts much of the game. Passing in midfield was so poor at least from my eye test. I haven’t looked at the stats. I was dubious when Phil pulled EM and Chara. Should have pulled Mosquera. That guy needs to leave a lesson. Learn and play some type of defense or you don’t play. I told my son it was clear Phil was betting the house and I thought that there would be a greater chance of us conceding than catching up. And easily concede is exactly what we did. “Dark Arts”!? WTF. You don’t need dark arts. Just actually learn how to play defense. Facepalm! Whole team looked out of sync. Passing was a messed much of the night. Feels quite a bit like right before Gio left. When everyone just gave up.
Duparic needs to be on the pitch. The guy throws his body around and leaves it on the pitch. 3 in the back. Blasphemous but Ayala had more to offer offensively than Chara. Williamson who did a good job as a 10 one game but did a Nagbe impression tonight. Dude, push the ball and break lines. Maybe because Evander came higher. Paredes was better
Defense, Leadership, style of play, fight, a fortress? Waiting.
Our defense sucked most of the game. I don't know if the outcome would have been any different if Max had been in goal given our crappy defense. Things would have looked a lot brighter if a couple of the Timbers' near misses had gone in. Rodriguez does look promising. I hope he doesn't lose his spirit playing for this team.
The referee lockout is over as of today, so we can finally go back to complaining about the real refs instead of complaining about replacement refs:
https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/2024/03/26/mls-referee-lockout-ends-psra-new-contract/
They got a lot of what they wanted, including substantial raises, which is good for them. They'll be back for this weekend; no news on whether the 2024 rule changes that were paused will be introduced this weekend as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn2RHM3MWhU
I made a video of all the touches from Williamson and Evander this game since it's been a big talking point of whether these two can work together. Also, copyright (among other things, this is like my eighth time trying to upload this damn thing) got on my ass and blocked the video everywhere so I had to trim down a lot of the plays I'd normally leave in, making this much more choppy than normal. Anyways, I had several takeaways from basically rewatching this game, so I'll copy and paste them here:
- Williamson had an excellent first half. He made only one or two bad passes and never got the ball taken off him. But he was super active, getting on the ball a lot and connecting quite well with Moreno and Mosquera on the right flank. There are a few times he got the ball, and drove across the field, opening up space as well as breaking Philly’s press. In the second half he wasn’t nearly as effective. I’m not sure what changed, but his passes weren’t great, and he did not link up with Evander well.
- Evander was the weak link a lot of the game, but especially in the first half. He had two good shots, but really didn’t do much else and lost the ball a few times. Bad first half. He came to life as the second half went on as we were just causing chaos and he was able to get on the ball more though, and he was involved in a lot of our plays. Later in the game he really took the responsibility of the game on his shoulders, he was constantly looking to get on the ball and make something happen.
- I’m going to say something here that may sound crazy, but hear me out: I think we need our players to have a similar mindset about Evander as Miami players have about Messi. Miami players. Miami players (like Robert Taylor) told the media that whenever Messi gets the ball, they just run. That’s their responsibility, just run into space, because they know Messi has the quality to find them. Now Evander of course doesn’t have the quality of Messi, but goddamn he has some serious quality. And not only that, but he’s ALWAYS looking for a pass in behind he can play. I noticed that he dribbled back and forth a bunch in the second half with his head up, just waiting for someone to make a run in behind, and it rarely happened. Asprilla did it once and they created a chance (bad cross from Dairon). When Evander has the ball, our players have to make forward/diagonal runs. Like, just go. Evander has the quality, he will find that amazing pass 4/5 times.
- Defensively I didn’t really notice anything wrong this game. I had to cut out Philly’s second goal (thanks copyright) but that was definitely a moment where Williamson should’ve stepped, although I don’t entirely blame that goal on him (it was a bad pass from Moreno that gave the ball away, Williamson was trying to make a progressive play that I like). Other than that things were find besides the few bad attempted tackles here and there. However, against high possession teams fielding a better team, I do think it might be a problem. I don’t want to just assume that though because Williamson and Evander are both so talented.
- I don’t believe we have proof that these two don’t work together. It’s their third game. Now there are several times where they try to connect with each other and just aren’t on the same page, but again, I want to believe it’s just a lack of chemistry. People rightfully point out that because they’re so similar in their playstyle that means they won’t work together, but I think it’s equally possible that could be a reason they could work together in some instances. Again, “could.” I have not seen evidence one way or another, but I do want to see more.
- We basically went entirely down the right side the first half, and yes it was lopsided, but man it worked. A lot. Pretty much all of our chances came from that side. It was lopsided but it was lopsided with a purpose, and when our passing was on point, we were able to create something. When Bravo comes back I definitely want to see more down the left, but I think this was a good tactical setup for this game.
- The second half we changed, we tried to be more attacking down the left and it just didn’t work with Miller and Antony. Williamson or Evander would drop into the space left by the fullback who pushed forward, and would get on the ball to progress play there. Moreno played even more inverted, basically next to Rodriguez for much of the half, and gave Mosquera the entirety of that flank, which I’m sure was something Neville told him to do since Antony basically did the same whenever they switched flanks. All of this did not work, we did not create much of anything in the second half. Clearly Neville tried different things and some of them worked and some didn’t, and I don’t entirely mind that. I just hope this leads to growth.
- A random note: McGraw is not a ball playing center back obviously and that was a problem this game, but outside of a few plays where he was just left out to defend open space against an onrushing forward (I do not expect him or many CBs to defend that well), he actually had a pretty spotless game defensively. Dominant in the air as always.
Great job on the video! I think I said this already in an earlier post, but I thought Williamson played well, but as usual, he fades in the second half. Phil has a watchful eye and pulls him when appropriate.
The problem is - and I think you touched on it - there are too many guys who like to play with the ball. Moreno, Williamson and of course, Evander, are all players who need the ball. The Timbers would probably be better off without one of them on the field. Honestly, who would you rather be orchestrating, Williamson or Evander? For me, Evander is an 8 and should be on the ball. Not that Williamson isn't doing a good job, because he can, but I think Evander is the one who needs to be pulling the strings. I've never been sold with Moreno as a winger, simply because he doesn't act like one, and seems to do his best work in the middle of the park. But that is not my main point here. I'd rather they had a winger in place of Moreno and he played inside with Evander, and even played more of a 10 and a little 8. I think they would wreck havoc together. I do think they will have success with Moreno as a wing, but he doesn't run off the ball, and that doesn't take advantage of Evander.
I think the key is they need to run off the ball, like you mentioned, and it ain't happening with the players they have.
McGraw isn't skilled enough IMO and sometimes makes mistakes in playing out of the back or when winning the ball that puts the defense in a vulnerable position. I think he's also poor in positioning, and needs to improve. There is no doubt that he can clear the heck out of the ball and wins headers. He kind of had a Mabiala game - pretty good throughout but a crucial mistake that leads to a goal. I love the guy, and hope he can improve, but I worry about his speed.
This was an extremely frustrating game, I have a few random thoughts so we’ll see where this takes me.
I thought the first half was actually quite good, we created several great chances just couldn’t finish. Rodriguez looked absolutely electric, he made many great runs and just made his presence known up top. I’m really excited to see more from him, I think he’s going to do really well. We gave up a goal but I was still feeling ok going into the second half. The second half was much worse, we struggled to create chances as Philly sat deeper. Stupid giveaways and defensive lapses led to the second and third goals, and we never really looked like a threat. It was incredible disheartening.
Philly clogged up the middle of the field, completely taking Eryk and Evander out of the game almost entirely. I didn’t think either of them were necessarily good or bad, just ineffective. It’s just their third ever game starting together, so jury is still out as to whether they will work together. Since the had that midfield clogged up with the 4-4-2 diamond, we needed more cross field switches. We needed to spread that diamond out. But instead, we were ponderous, just passing the ball back and forth along the back line. That’s cool, but we needed to switch things up. Those passes allow the defense to shift and be set. Bigger passes and switches of play were needed, and I think we only hit one or two all game, in the second half (I forgot if it was Evander or Ayala). We need to be braver in possession instead of always going for the easy pass. I believe both Evander and Eryk are capable of doing that and do it often, but they didn’t this game, I’m not sure why. I really hope Phil isn’t instructing them to not play long.
Antony has great defensive ability actually, but besides his goals, he’s been largely ineffective on offense to start this year. The one play I thought he did well was when he was on the right side, and he was able to take his defender on, get to the end line, and put in a dangerous cross. He’s so right footed, so it’s easy to predict what he’s going to do every time. I’d like to see him more on the right side, I think he can be more dangerous there. Yes he will still be predictable, but because he’s so fast there just won’t be much defenders can do about it. The problem is they have Moreno on that side so he can tuck in and Mosquera can bomb down the wing, which makes sense. They have good chemistry and are good friends off and on the field, but I think they look for each other too much. They always look to combine with each other even if it doesn’t make sense. It comes off many times but they also lose the ball many times, and leave us exposed. I just think we need to switch things up a bit.
I think Phil let us down with the subs. 65th minute down 2-0, and he puts Antony as a left back with a gassed Mosquera on the right. I get he wanted more offense, but that was way too early to move to that formation imo. 2-0 is called the most dangerous lead in soccer for a reason, there was still plenty of time to salvage that game. Would we have? I don’t know, but we gave the game up with that plan. The foul that led to the third goal comes because Antony is too far up the field (not his fault, those were his instructions) and Zuparic had no one to pass to. A foul gets committed and the defense is all out of wack, and Philly capitalize. I thought his move to take Chara off and bring Ayala on was the right one, but taking Miller off and putting Antony at LB was the wrong call. I would’ve rather him take Mosquera off and put Antony there. I believe a team balance is necessary to scoring goals — it was too early for chaos ball.
Speaking of Ayala, he was great off the bench as he always is. Broke lines with his passing and opened up the play because he made longer passes that no one else would. I was happy to see Phil say that he’s pushing for a starting spot, because he absolutely should be. I would love to see him get a run of games out, maybe as the 8 but maybe as the 6, which is a position I think he’s much better suited for. Perhaps it’s time to give Chara a rest, I don’t know. I have my reservations about that but man I just want to see him play. It’s his third year with the team, he’s earned it.
I cannot wait to get Bravo back, I thought Miller was quite poor this game. Not entirely his fault (although I do put the blame for the second goal on him, which really killed our momentum) since he’s more defensive and not suited to progress the ball from the back which we desperately needed him to do. Badly. Bravo does that and I can’t wait. The same goes for McGraw… I love him to death and think he’s great, but he’s a good (I’d argue great) defender, not a good distributor. And definitely not good defending in space, which is all there is to defend when Mosquera is pushed so far up the field. If Phil wants us to play a more possession oriented style like this (and I understand not every team will play like Philly did), McGraw might not be the person to start. Start him vs a Houston who will take all the possession, but maybe not vs a team that will sit back and play in transition.
I want to continue to be positive on this team and I do believe Phil has made some steady improvements with this team in possession, but this game stung. A lot. A shorthanded Philly team who started the league with three draws should be an easy win at home. Instead, we got pummeled, and honestly looked like we might lose 4 or 5-0 after that third goal went in. Yes, if we make our chances in the first half we will win that game 9/10 times, but I don’t want to keep saying that. We haven’t been good enough in front of goal. Hopefully Rodriguez changes that (I mean seriously, I thought he was awesome). Phil really needs to work with this team on getting the ball into our midfielders consistently. Evander and Williamson are some of our most talented players, we can’t just allow a team to easily take them out of the game like that. It was simply not good enough. Phil has a lot to prove here
I agree with pretty much everything you say here. Moreno played on the left when he first got here and was pretty effective, even though he was all right foot. For the sake of shaking it up, maybe Moreno and Antony could switch sides.
Big switches were needed, but that would probably have to come from the six, and Chara is probably less inclined to do it - not because he can't but he plays it fairly safe and he's not on the ball a lot. Ayala would work pretty well in that role. I also think they could have shifted one of the midfielders outside in the buildup to create a mismatch in numbers and space and keep one in the middle. I don't know - tactically they were figuring it out, it just was really slow in developing.
I think as I mentioned before, we could have done better with replacements for McGraw and Chara. But in McGraw's case, Mabiala (a better passer, but even slower) would have been on and that doesn't sound like a good plan ,either.
They played down the right a ton - I don't know if that was the plan or it just happened like that, but it ended up looking like three in the back because Miller stayed pretty even with the other two CBs.
Switches can come from center backs — doesn’t have to be a switch, but a lofted ball into a winger or a high full back (Mosquera) from the opposite sided center back. One of our good chances in the first half came from this exact play if you watch the highlights back, where Zuparic plays a lofted ball into Mosquera on the far side to Mosquera, and him and Moreno are essentially 2v2 on that side now. They completely school the defenders and got Mosquera in on goal. We needed more of that! Those long switches create isolated situations. McGraw doesn’t have that pass in his locker usually. Zuparic does sometimes but often gets the pass wrong. Miller probably does, Mabiala does but he shouldn’t be playing, and who knows if Araujo does. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Araujo
Eric Miller shouldn't ever be a starter, and Saturday night showed why. He's useful depth, but with callups and injuries, he was forced into a role he's not suitable for, and it cost the Timbers dearly. I'm not sure what else Phil could have done given the current state of the roster, so I can't really blame it on him, but it sucks.
"Yes, if we make our chances in the first half we will win that game 9/10 times, but I don’t want to keep saying that."
I know people like to bag on xG as a thing, and I have serious issues with people using xG in-game as it's fairly useless within a single game, but this team has so far underperformed its season xG (by almost three goals, depending on whose xG model you believe). What that tells me is two things: they're creating good chances overall, as we saw on Saturday in the first half, and that over time they'll start putting away the chances they create. I'm really not too worried about the offense in general. The defense, on the other hand, which I was hopeful about before the season...woof.
"Perhaps it’s time to give Chara a rest, I don’t know. I have my reservations about that"
I'm not sure where I land on that debate right now, but I am also not one to staff a starting lineup based on nostalgia. Diego Chara is a club legend, who should have at least one statue and probably a stand and maybe a stadium and probably a charitable foundation (Charatable?) named after him, and when he retires, I want to petition the city to rename the stretch of 20th that runs behind the stadium after him, and I'm sure I'll think of other tributes too.
BUT.
He is human, and he is fallible, and if the team is better with him rotating in and out of the lineup, or taking a night off, then that's what needs to happen. Neither he nor anyone else should be written on the lineup sheet in permanent ink, because that's not how sports works.
"It was simply not good enough. Phil has a lot to prove here"
I said before the game that this was a big test for Phil. To be blunt, he failed. I'm not hitting the panic button yet, but I'm hitting the much more nuanced "I really need to start seeing some improvements sooner rather than later, man" button, I think.
In terms of the xG thing, it’s weird because we started by over performing and now we’re under performing these last two games. I also don’t like using xG that much and ESPECIALLY not for a single game, but mannnn we had so many high quality chances this game in the first half, we really got unlucky to not find the back of the net. Evander and Rodriguez both missing from 10 yards out is just tough luck.
I have a few thoughts about benching Chara. First is that he’s our captain. He’s our leader. He talks to everyone and organizes things. Ayala is 21, and he communicates a ton on the field, but he’s not a leader or the captain. Benching Chara would be a HUGE statement by Phil, it would be massive story, but I also think Phil might have the balls to do it given how he treated Higuaín in Miami. I’m just afraid that it will disorganize the team on the field. Also, Ayala isn’t as positionally disciplined yet… he has tons of energy, which I love, but he will often get out of position because he loves to win the ball almost too much. I also believe that Chara has actually had a pretty good start to this year. Benching him isn’t about him underperforming, it’s about if Ayala can be an upgrade.
Now, I’m impulse for maybe wanting to see Ayala start over Chara is a little selfish: I just love Ayala, I think he’s amazing and I want to see him get more game time. But on top of that, it’s also possible he fits the game model better. Chara is great, but he doesn’t get on the ball that much anymore, and doesn’t make game breaking passes. Ayala can. Something I love about him is that he’s *always* looking to get on the ball. He will drop deep or run around until he finds the space (which can be another concern about his positioning), and he demands the ball when he gets there. He’s got so many passes in his locker, he constantly looks to break lines and he can hit those big switches I was talking about. He’s very hard-nosed and will get stuck in, he loves a good tackle, although can be a big Bravo-like and be overeager, and then getting beat. But overall he’s probably much better in possession and could potentially open the game up for us, creating more chances.
So the question is that when we play a game like this where we are going to have all the possession at home, do we try to play Ayala over Chara? Honestly, I’d say yes. Also maybe start Zuparic or Araujo over McGraw since he’s not good on the ball either. Then if we play a team on the road that’s more possession oriented, we can put McGraw and Chara back in. It’s a dangerous game as you generally want to have the same starting lineup each game to build chemistry, but maybe this is worth a shot. But there’s a big risk to it with all the reasons I listed earlier.
At the end of the day I’m not going to be down on Phil if he does or doesn’t bench Chara here and there as it’s a choice with intangible positives and negatives, but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. I believe Ayala has earned more minutes, but who will it come at the cost to? Williamson? Chara? Evander? Paredes? I don’t know
I’m not sure what button I’m pressing yet as I’m really enjoying watching this team play — much more than I did under Gio the past two years — and I do think there’s good changes that Phil is making, but as players get healthier the excuses will start to go away. He needs to step up
"Benching him isn’t about him underperforming, it’s about if Ayala can be an upgrade."
Exactly, which is why framing it as a "benching", while that might just be semantics on my part, is kind of the wrong way to look at it. Chara's game is a throwback - he plays a style I love, but it's not exactly the way a lot of teams, including the Timbers, want to play now, and the only way to determine whether the Timbers can indeed play that way with the players they have is to start a game without Chara to see what that looks like.
If that doesn't work, or even if it sort of does, bring Chara back to do his Chara things! I don't want to sunset him the way I wanted to quickly ride both Valeri and Blanco off to the end of their careers, because Chara's decline phase is proving to be waaaaaaaaaay more gradual than both of theirs. But it's still there, and this team has to evaluate what a post-Chara, or even a post-Chara-playing-every-minute-of-every-game, looks like.
The only way to do that is to make the unpopular-with-the-fans move of sitting him. But it's the right move to figure out what this team can be both with and without him.
I agree, although maybe it’s not that time in the season quite yet. Only five games in, we’re still fourth in the standings, and we’re about to be on the road a bunch against some really high quality teams. After that we have an easier stretch, and if we feel the same then at that point it’s probably time to try some things. Unless it all goes horribly wrong, which I don’t anticipate *KNOCK ON WOOD*
I think you make a really good point about Ayala - is it really an upgrade - offensively yes, but defensively (mainly from a positional awareness standpoint) no. Then, I'd say he should be paired with a Paredes, who minds the store a little bit more mindfully. But that would mean Williamson takes a seat, and that's not necessarily the best move. So, if you have your two best CBs in Zup and K. Miller then you wouldn't have to play Paredes, perhaps, and you could keep Williamson on. Or, play Ayala as an 8 and keep Chara on. I think to keep defenses honest you have to be able to play some guys in behind, like an Antony, and someone like Ayala might be more inclined to try it. Antony probably would also benefit with Bravo, who can create some space on the dribble. Honestly, though, Evander should be the eight, but that's another issue.
I think the depth is such that Phil will have a lot of options at his disposal and it will be up to him to choose wisely. I think he will. I see a lot of potential. We do need to get some points while we are working it out, though, and dropping points at home is going to haunt us later on.
I actually think with the right combinations of players, we should try or be able to be on the front foot always, whether on the road, tough opponent, etc, especially if we have our best backline in.
I'm going to trust that Phil will know the right combinations of players and when Ayala is ready. I mean, if the guy is killing it in practice and shows well in his minutes, etc, then his time to start will come.
The result is disappointing. There are some positives, or at least some differences from previous teams.
1. Possession - There was a lot of patience to work it out of the back in the first half, especially. Previous teams after one or two passes in the back would have launched one up to a forward for a 50-50 ball and hope for the best and it was usually a chaotic brand of soccer. I saw a lot of patience from the back, and that led to some good chances in the first half. I think this is part of the learning curve. It's too bad they weren't rewarded for it to get the validation.
2. Working hard the entire game - I didn't see any let up or lack of effort the entire game. They were working hard to win the ball back and attack. The subs brought a different element to the game, and it was nice to see there is depth to challenge not only the opponent, but also provide competition within the squad.
General observation - Mistakes cost the team a result. Philly basically pounced on mistakes, and they set up for a result, whereas the Timbers could actually grow from this loss a lot more than Philly will grow from a win.
tactically - Phil knows a lot more about this than I do, but with Philly's diamond compacting the middle, why not have full backs not so far up to draw the side diamond guy wide and then use the midfielder to advance, and maybe through a big switch or through to a higher wing player. They were slow to work it around in general, but they got better at it as they figured it out.
Individually - Williamson did pretty well, I thought, but he does wear down in the second half of games and Phil has a good read on when to sub him. In general he helped keep possession and break lines. He started giving some hospital balls in the second half - hence the sub. Mosquera played fairly well too. They seemed to tilt the field to the right and he got a lot of action and helped set up some good chances. Jonathan R - I love this guy! His touch and saucy flicks. Get him the ball and good things will happen.
On the tactics - we were much too slow to shift in the back and midfield with the ball. I think Philly knew we were too slow, so let us have possession and waited for their chance to counter (which we gave them, several times). We just kept making the same passes back and forth with marked central players (due to said diamond) and wide players who were open, but we were too slow to get the passes to them.
Seemed like one of those times that a field general should have corrected things 15 minutes in, but nobody was speaking up.
I think there are two players who are exposed a bit right now - McGraw and Chara. Playing possession and a higher line, McGraw is exposed by his skill set (not good enough on the ball and slow and game awareness), and Chara doesn't always show and go for the ball. He does well when he does, but he isn't taking on that responsibility all the time IMO.
Phil is playing a game designed for the players he wished he had instead of the ones he has. He's trying to run a modern, build out of the back in possession attack and then high pressing without the ball. He wants his fullbacks involved high in the attack. Sadly, he doesn't have Saliba and Van Dyke at centerback and he doesn't have Rodri at holding mid. He's got a couple of well meaning slugs at centerback and a 100 year old Diego Chara instead. I'm frankly astounded on how slow McGraw is. I did not remember that. It's Phil who needs to adjust. Otherwise, be prepared to suffer run throughs like last night all season long. Bunker and counter will be the gospel of playing against Portland.
I wonder the same. He was never this slow last year. Wonder if he is working through something.
Forgot about Araujo. I wonder what he brings to the table? It would have been nice to start him over McGraw.
I take a bit of heart from the fact that even though teams have "figured us out" by packing numbers into the midfield, we still get a significant number of good chances to score. However, at some point the team will need to figure out how to play from the back. Those first few minutes of Zuparic hanging around with nowhere to pass were a big warning sign.
Defense really let us down, but goals change games. Timbers were at a significant disadvantage once we missed twice and their half-chance went in. Philly did well to pounce on our weakness and our need to advance numbers
- creativity and movement in the final third has been the biggest improvement. This has actually made for entertaining soccer for the first time in years.
- midfield is a mixed bag. Not enough cover for our D.
- defense has not been good. P and C have had to save their bacon multiple times a game. Mosquera is a wingback not a right back. Without cover behind him, you take chances. E Miller is clearly a DC stuck out wide. How you can build a squad with no depth at DR and DL, it wobbles the mind.
- the xG…. at some point they have to start scoring more, but the chance that they make the POs giving up the chances they do…
Why does Jonathan Rodriguez look familiar to me? Have the Timbers played against him before?
For some reason, I'm not as negative on the Timbers as I normally would be with the kind of results (or lack thereof) we've been getting so far. It seems like the pieces are there for a good team. Good to see Mora back and for better or worse, it will be good to get Bravo back, if for no other reason than the speed he brings.
I am not impressed with Kamal Miller so far. When it comes to grit and heady play, Zup still feels like the best CB we have. Zac is solid in limited space but with this system where we leave the two CB all alone in space, he looks like a tortoise trying to hang with any forward player.
Zup was responsible for the first goal. Still don’t know why he was on the ground. Neither did Moreno who was looking at him like what are you doing down there. Zup has become mabiala to me. He is a step slow so he cheats. Drops early. Takes a walk about or two a game. Our keeper took one off the face because Zup went and tackled Chara
As to our offense. I get the frustration. Should be better right? Except people have been injured and then you bring in a new guy so this was the first game experience for this group together. I liked what I saw in the first half. I liked the ball movement. The speed. Working it down one side and back if it wasn’t there. We are lamenting a 3-1 loss. But those chances we whiffed on on the first half? Game is 2 or 3 to 1 at half if those go. Sometimes you get em like Colorado. Sometimes you don’t. What I did like though is guys were in dangerous places. Those were all repeatable things.
Small sample sizes, but the team is now underperforming on xG whereas previously they were overperforming. That's better over the long run, especially with 2 veteran strikers on the roster
With K. Miller and M. Crepeau back for this weekend, we'll be in good shape defensively. Phil has been harping on being ruthless in front of goal and I like it. I think it's just a mentality that you want to bang in goals and rip out the will of the opponent. It takes relentless attacking and never letting off the pedal. I'd like to see improvement in that area this week.
I've said "we'll be in good shape defensively" several times this year and been burned each time. I hope you're right this time, because I'd like to see improvement in the defensive area far more than anything else. Attacking is going reasonably well, and finishing will come if the attacking progresses as it has done over the last few games. Defending is the worry for me.
I like the pairing of K. Miller and Zup, and I think we'll be fine defensively, or at least it's a good base.
The Timbers through the past several years have been a counter punch team, and it seems Phil wants to change that culture and start throwing jabs and not just absorb blows. The addition of Jonathan R is going to help, and I think some guys are going to have to step up their game and be more two way players. You lose the ball, then get it back quickly. You get the ball, then don't lose it and work hard to advance it. Simple, I know, but that's what he's working on and it will be fairly easy to see who fits and who doesn't.
Set piece defending is a huge problem for this team, as is defensive positioning in general. It was thus for Gio's teams, and it's proving so for Phil's so far. Until the mental mistakes are eliminated, until the defenders are switched on 100% of the time, it doesn't matter who's out there; this team will be weak defensively, despite the individual qualities of the defenders on the pitch.
Have a defensive plan/identity, buy into it, implement it. Every forward pass we made, Philly was all over that player for the entire game. It was hard to find a pass and they contested every pass. In response, Players need to constantly move to find space and receive the ball, stop ball watching. If they don’t want the ball at their feet, then get off the field. Another blasphemous thought, Chara doesn’t offer much offensively but Ayala does. Maybe we need to get him more minutes as he seemed to add a little when he came on. Evander and Williamson/Paredes (Paredes did this when he came in) need to get on the ball and advance it to the wings or to Santi. On the back line, Zup, in my opinion, should be on the field in a 3 back. He may not be fast, can’t jump, makes the occasional mistake, but also saves goals, throws his body around and is assertive.
I agree about Ayala. Paredes did ok, but he just kinda launched the ball forward, which is his MO, and that works in a chaotic-we-need-a-goal kind of way, but not in a systematic break a low block down kind of way. Long term, I'm hoping Phil can unlock Paredes and make him a better player, because there really is no better ball winner on the club.
If the Timbers can continue to create like they did in the first 30 or so minutes of this game, I am not even remotely worried about the offense. Those were some good chances, and on another night, more of them will go in. They were patient, they moved the ball well, and everyone - including Rodriguez, he of exactly two days of work with his new team - seemed to know what they wanted to do and where they needed to be. That was encouraging.
And then there's the "defense". I honestly don't know what's going on back there. We can talk all we want about building out from the back, and attacking down the wings, and all those encouraging things, but until the defenders do what they're paid to do - DEFEND - none of the rest of that 21st century every-player-attack-all-the-time soccer stuff will matter. They fall asleep on set pieces far too often, they get crossed up under pressure a lot, and they lose their shape waaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. I had a lot of confidence in this defense coming into the season; I didn't think they were going to be elite, best-in-MLS level, but with the two additions they made, I thought they'd be an upgrade on last year, and I thought Miller would help stabilize the back line in particular.
Based on what I've seen so far this season, I was wrong. And the worrisome thing is, I'm not even seeing incremental improvement at the back over last year, which means that it's a problem both of personnel and of coaching. I don't know how soccer coaching staffs work, if they're like the NFL where every assistant has a specific brief or if they all have a hand in everything, but whoever is primarily responsible for defensive coaching just isn't getting the job done. Not even close.
It is way too early to start calling for heads at this point, but if things don't start changing soon, by the time summer rolls around, new defensive players and probably a new assistant coach or two might be a good idea. Because this isn't sustainable.
Some of this is tactical. Last night Neville kept pushing Mosquera way too high. I was in 119 and I could regularly see Phil waving him higher, which honestly, I did not understand. He was often past the midfielders with the ball a McGraw's feet. That made our back four a back three. Evander doesn't defend at all. But cabecito would make a run and still track back to Z14 or the wing. That was awesome to see. I am way more excited by him as a player than I was before this game. He was everywhere trying to win balls back, working really hard off the ball and many times he and Moreno were just slightly off in their connections.
Another issue I noticed was Zuparic. The whole back line was trying to pass past him and limit his interactions - at least in the first 35 and I could see Zac take way too much time on the ball searching for his outlets.
Lastly, Kamal Miller is a miss for us but we lack a true start back four. E. Miller is a sub on every team in the MLS. Bravo is not great (hurt, i know). And we need some serious depth back there. I also noticed that DChara is not as fast nor as quick and I think he covered a lot of our defensive liabilities until the last two seasons when he began to slow. I would like to see more minutes for Williamson in that role
Gio did the exact same thing with Mosquera. It makes sense in theory but hasn’t worked. I think Mosquera needs space to run into, and I feel like it’s probably easier to defend since Mosquera will be running backwards to receive the ball more often than not.
Getting Bravo back will be massive, we needed Miller to be able to progress the ball either with his passing or his dribbling and he can do neither. This just isn’t the type of game he excels in. Bravo would’ve helped so much
I just don’t get it. I’m just a casual fan. I don’t know a lot about tactics. Even I can see you should not have two slow CB’s creep toward midfield trying, and failing, to ignite the attack. All it takes is one small miscue, a bad touch or a bad pass, and your CB is chasing the counter and he’s way behind. That’s what happened on the second goal. Philly knew it, and pounced. This looks like round peg, square hole from last year. Again.
First game in person and what a disappointment. Only bright spot was Rodriguez getting his first. Timbers look SO poor in the midfield. Williamson was out of sorts much of the game. Passing in midfield was so poor at least from my eye test. I haven’t looked at the stats. I was dubious when Phil pulled EM and Chara. Should have pulled Mosquera. That guy needs to leave a lesson. Learn and play some type of defense or you don’t play. I told my son it was clear Phil was betting the house and I thought that there would be a greater chance of us conceding than catching up. And easily concede is exactly what we did. “Dark Arts”!? WTF. You don’t need dark arts. Just actually learn how to play defense. Facepalm! Whole team looked out of sync. Passing was a messed much of the night. Feels quite a bit like right before Gio left. When everyone just gave up.
How was the atmosphere? Were people engaged?
Duparic needs to be on the pitch. The guy throws his body around and leaves it on the pitch. 3 in the back. Blasphemous but Ayala had more to offer offensively than Chara. Williamson who did a good job as a 10 one game but did a Nagbe impression tonight. Dude, push the ball and break lines. Maybe because Evander came higher. Paredes was better
Defense, Leadership, style of play, fight, a fortress? Waiting.
Our defense sucked most of the game. I don't know if the outcome would have been any different if Max had been in goal given our crappy defense. Things would have looked a lot brighter if a couple of the Timbers' near misses had gone in. Rodriguez does look promising. I hope he doesn't lose his spirit playing for this team.