I don't know if this is a me problem or a sign of the current culture of the club but I don't even get mad, upset, angry or emotional over losses anymore. Likewise, when we win, or score I don't get overly excited. I use to jump and scream and startle the neighbors every goal, now none of that even phases me. I make an effort to watch every game but I am hardly as invested as I use to be.
I've notice as I watch a match from my couch, I am staring at my phone for large portions of the game. It's just bland, boring and rarely productive. Outside of Chara, I don't feel attached to any of the players on the field like say a Jewsbury, Valeri, Borchers etc... I wouldn't feel sad or emotional to see anyone leave.
5 years ago, had we lost to a 3 win Chicago fire team at home that we've never lost to, It'd be eating me alive. I would be up all night pissed about the outcome. Now its just like, "meh"... whatever. Is this a me problem? would things change if we had a new coach? owner? etc...
I live out of state, so don't get to attend games in Portland as much as I'd like... In fact, I haven't been back since before Covid.. And admittedly, I am not the most up to date with current affairs with upper management other than what's on the surface, but the crowd at providence park just doesn't seem as "intimidating" or "special" as it use to be. For the most part, Timbers Army seems tired, uninspired and merely going through the motions as a supporters group.
We were talking about that last night at the stadium. I've been going to Timbers games since 2009, and I've only missed a handful of MLS-era home games, and the vibe in-stadium is just...different now. Part of it is the stagnant play in the last 2-3 seasons, part of it is Merritt's issues, and part of it is probably the increase in ticket prices over the last few seasons which doesn't make it easy to justify the expense of a season ticket in light of the former two, but the in-stadium vibe is very much one of lower energy now. Maybe post-Covid changes in attitude too? I don't know.
As an anecdotal data point, my section - 111 - is two sections over from the Army. We have always been a standing section, as has 110 to our left. Last night, not only was 111 only about 75% full, but at one point I counted and there were nine people (including me) standing. That's different!
I'm not here to judge - people can sit or stand or whatever, fan however you want - but it is a markedly different, far less energetic vibe at games now than it was five years ago, for sure.
"For the most part, Timbers Army seems tired, uninspired and merely going through the motions as a supporters group."
Nailed it. The same chants, at the same times, and an infuriatingly reflexive booing of referees at any call that might even slightly be against the Timbers. I don't want to turn this into a referendum on the worth/value of the TA, because overall they're a net positive, but they're definitely running on muscle memory right now and doing things because they always do them, not because the team is inspiring them to do them.
You are not alone. I can relate to everything you said. I still get mad but it is from a lack of change being made at the club and the constant wrong choices ever since Fernandez.
I too look at my phone or just go to bed most games because I know how it is going to play out. I am rarely shocked anymore.
I have thought about this a lot. I constantly ask why is it not the same as it used to be. Why do fans not really care as much? Why is the TA not the same as it used to be? What are the issues and how do you fix it?
Q. Why is it not the same anymore?
A. This has a lot of parts to it.
1. There are phases to Fandom. In the first couple of years the crowd energy is merely pushed on by being new in the league and its an exciting and new experience. You see it all the time with these new teams. Because it is new and exciting people take a deeper interest in the sport as a whole. Especially new fans. They take in everything they can and even look elsewhere to get their soccer fix. Like watching other mls teams because it impacts their teams standings. Then in the off-season they watch other leagues to keep feeding their new passion. Slowly but surely it is not just about the emotion of supporting the team but they start to actually understand the game and what "beautiful soccer" is. They become educated fans. Then they have an idea of what a good product is and when it isn't a good product. That is where we are. We have a very smart fan base that had been following this team and sport for years. Be it before mls or during mls. We have been in the league 12 years now. People know what is beautiful soccer and don't enjoy watching ugly soccer. It's like hearing a kid play Mozart on a piano after just learning how to play it, or going to a concert hall and hearing a professional musician. Sure you could listen to the kid play but it's not as enjoyable. You just do it to be supportive. That brings me to the next issue in this question.
2. Ugly soccer and poor results. We have been mediocre for years. Low ambition signings, Ugly soccer, and low expectations being acceptable. There is no accountability for the players, coach, and FO. In any other league you can have hope because most leagues would fire their coach for such poor results. Most teams would trade players who don't perform or can't anymore. We do neither. So there is no hope that change will happen. So if you have no hope than what is the point in caring. That is where this team is at. And so most fans just lose interest. We have seen this from the Blazers for decades. A franchise that finds one good player, then rides him into the dirt and use him to string along a fan base even though they have no real ambition of challenging for a championship. They just want to do enough to keep people coming to games and spending money. Ffs NIKE AND ADIDAS headquarters are in Oregon and you are telling me they can't get players to come to the team. Anyway......that's off topic. It's a lack of hope that we have seen for many years in Oregon, from many different teams.
3. Mp and the FO. I do think this has some part to do with it but I don't think it is even close to as much of the issue. Sure what they did was wrong but I can't help but think most people's anger is really towards the teams results. I think the FO is more at fault for not holding anyone accountable for anything. But still, results are the biggest issue I think most people have.
4. The expectations of the team. This goes into what I said above. It has been obvious that this team under gio has not been about being the best in the league but barely doing enough to get into the playoffs and trying to make a run. It means that essentially they are telling the fans and the players that half of thebseason doesn't mean shit. Play ugly. Give half ass effort. (As we have seen over and over and over under gio) when we are in panic mode then you all need to step up and try to win. That is a shit attitude and not one that any fan wants for their club. It is disrespectful to the badge, the fans, the league, and the players future. Which is why our players never develop. Our team is being bread with a toxic culture and ideology of everyone gets a trophy. And if you don't believe that is exactly what "just do enough to make the playoffs" is, than I can't help you. It's lazy and only hurts the players, clubs and fans. We all see what is going on. Some have accepted it and said "well as long as they make the playoffs." Those are the people who are an accessory to the toxic "good is good enough" culture. And are just as much to blame for our teams failure as gio, fo and players.
B. Why is the TA not the same.
1. All the BS the TA has done over the years. The TA has politicized the TA. They stopped worrying about making the TA a fun experience and weaponized it to bring their activist ideology into the "GameDay experience." It stopped being about soccer and became about seeing what power they had over the FO. It doesn't matter if you agree with them or not. They needed to understand that GameDay experiences in the stadium are sacred. If they want to protest do it before the game or before during the week. (He'll they can lineup up for Seattle vs Portland days in advance but can't protest days before the game) they made it not enjoyable for awhile to be part of the TA. Most people go to games to have fun and enjoy the games with their friends and family. Not to have to worry about protesting or if they will get beat up for buying concessions. I buy Dutch bros all the time. (Probably spend around 300 a month on it) but nothing beats buying Dutch bros on a cold, rainy night at the stadium. Even if it costs me more. It is a tradition that I look forward to doing for decades to come. We all have those little things that make GameDays special.
2. The repetitive songs. For the love of God come up with some more songs that are actually enjoyable to sing. I don't know how many times I have heard certain songs start and only a quarter of the TA is singing it. While other chants everyone is singing. Like how do they not see based on fan engagement that certain songs need to go away. You have to refresh every so often. For awhile we stopped singing "oh referee oh referee take another bong hit" and "I'm blind, I'm deaf, I wanna be a ref." Among other chants deemed "inappropriate" but those are some of the chants that are the loudest in the stadium. Because it's fun and people love to haze the ref. Or chants that have a cus word in them. People scream that word at the top of their lungs because they love to put all their emotion into that word. But the point is that the TA is lethargic and honestly needs new leadership. People with fresh ideas and have a way of bringing people together in a fun way. Not run like an oligarchy.
For all these reasons I think most fans who aren't just casual fans, are kinda losing their love for the team.
If I owned this team I would be doing everything I could to make the TA fun and exciting again and everything to make the Timbers a global brand.
You really did a good job of summarizing what seems to be occurring. As an ex-season ticket holder, I agree that the environment, to include all the TA social commentary and obvious "mailing it in" attitude of the organization in whole have numbed my feelings toward the team as well.
We can all see the issues, but the money keeps rolling in, so why change? Every year, prices go up, but quality of play and overall fan experience goes down. We cannot attract proven talent... Heck, Powercube plays for the Fire! We get Concacaf and Conmebol seconds and thirds... Which is good enough to be where we're at, but it's not exciting.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "proven talent". Last year's MVP (and probably this year's too, at the rate he's going) Hany Mukhtar wasn't exactly setting the soccer world alight in Europe before he came here, after all.
I'm not saying the Timbers should have gotten Mukhtar specifically, but "proven talent" isn't the only path to success. it's true that GW didn't really ever go after bigger names or more proven talent, but it's also true that that's not a prerequisite for success as a player in MLS.
I want the Timbers to be better at talent evaluation and identification in all aspects - whether that's finding diamonds in the rough or bringing in a name we've all heard, I don't really care. They just need to get better at identifying good players so there are fewer Niezgoda/Mabiala level mistakes going forward.
I am somewhere early on your soccer fan continuum - still learning the game - and at actual matches I'm a bit more into the fan experience than the dynamics of play. (We often rewatch the game on TV after the match ).
I am not ally on my feet the whole time but for the Chicago game I was reasonably pumped up for the first fifteen or twenty minutes, but gradually lost energy.
The "when I root I root for the timbers" chant is getting super repetitive (why so many times through the match?) and lots of the songs just sounded like droning.
Eventually I was just staring stupidly at the field watching the game regardless of results.
What were we gonna do, madly cheer for a 2-2 draw against a dead last team, so we can hang onto 9th place?
Interesting observation about the TA.
Maybe it's just the energy of the game transferred into the fans?
Same. Its wierd... I rarely watch full games anymore. I live in the Portland area and will maybe make 3 games during the season. The main way I follow the team is internet discussions, highlights, and stat sheets. I still like the team a lot. Something has just felt different over the last few years
Maybe it's just a changing of the guard, and no one has seized control of the team like Valeri did when he arrived. That guy obviously was transformative, and he was from the get go. His first game against New York (?) and he scores that amazing goal flipping it by the defender. From then on, it was more of the same.
Blanco has had some legendary moments and he certainly is a fan favorite and ready to take over for Valeri, but then injuries derailed that. There have been some good signings and player acquisitions in the past few years (Mosquera, Moreno, Zup) and some developmental pieces that have brought fruit (Paredes, McGraw) but for the most part, the team has been thrown together in a hodge podge fashion and players have been misidentified and given roles that don't suit them. Moreno as a wing, Evander as a 10, even Asprilla as a wing, and Y Chara as a wing. Gio adapts by pinching in these "wing" players and the result is chaotic backyard soccer. So, I don't know who is to blame for this roster, but it is a mess, although I think it is decent enough that if Gio put the best 11 out there, which he has not been doing, he could scrap together some better results.
The Army is still doing it. It may not be peak energy but it’s there. They got taken out of the game early last night. In general midweeks are a bit low key.
Evander was shit tonight. In the waning minutes of the first half he turned over the ball three times in under two minutes. Ball was taken at his feet, he made a bad pass, and lost the ball when he kicked it too far ahead of him on a promising run. Then that fiasco of the 69th minute. He plays with little intensity or effort. He’s clearly talented but far from the playmaker we need. I know, he needs time to adjust to MLS, does that mean he’ll pick up the pace or intensity next season?
Yes, the center official tried to match the Timber’s quality, but please don’t blame the loss on him. It’s been years since I left a game before the final kick, but tonight I only wish I left earlier than I did. Not going to Saturday’s match, I need to save my money and energy for a group that can get their shit together.
How do you know that? You're not inside his head. You're not on his team. There are legit things to criticize about his game last night, for sure, but we on the outside have no way of knowing his level of energy or effort. Reading body language is about the worst way to evaluate athletes I can think of, in any sport.
And yes, he'll be fine long term - a lot of his issues are also because most of the pieces around him aren't great, so it may be that he feels like he has to do it all himself at this point which is leading him to make mistakes. I don't know, but of all the things I'm worried about on the Timbers right now I'm also worried about him probably the least.
He almost had a goal last night but the keeper got down. I'd say it wasn't fast enough leg whip, but he did pretty well to get it off accurately given the congested circumstances.
Boli's nice drive and shot got cleared off the line by the backside defender. It could have been a rout, but alas, it wasn't. Nothing seems to be going right.
The Evander move strikes me as a building block for next season, when some new players come in, but even so, he seems more of an 8 than a 10. He doesn't seem to have the leg whip of a Valeri to put any pace on his shots, and he's not going to blow by anybody. He can pass well. He's a better Williamson.
Evander had a bad game but once he came off we had nothing going forward. He’s the only player that can make something happen. Boli has been good for several games in a row, there is absolutely zero reason to be taking him off for Niezgoda. Why is he always the first one subbed? He’s consistently one of our best players, and the drop off from him to Niezgoda is pretty clear, despite Niezgoda playing with more energy.
Yeah, teams just not good right now. Our first choice lineup is our there but there’s not a ton of chemistry. I thought Moreno had one of his best games of the season, most of our good offensive movements went through him. We need a better system in order to unlock him, because he’s such a great player, and him and a Evander should be combining much more
Bingham was my MOTM by a long shot. I have no worries whenever he’s in the lineup, which is great to say about a backup keeper. Losing McGraw is gonna be rough, all we can hope for is for Miller to start at CB instead of Mabiala, but I have no real hope for that. Gio doesn’t have the team playing better than the sum of their parts right now, and I don’t think that will change. We rely on individual moments of brilliance, often coming from Evander, or mistakes from the opponent, and when that doesn’t work then there’s nothing. Which is quite disappointing because we see flashes of what can be a really exciting front line
If you notice, most of Moreno's good plays come from being in the middle or the channels. He did have one really nice cross tonight. But, he's a 10, and if you want to unlock him, play him as a 10. On the other side of your exciting front line, you have Asprilla, who is really a 9. So, you have no danger being created on the wings - at all. Think about it, nothing is being generated outside. There are no crosses, no cut ins and shots. 50 percent of the field is not being used. On the plus side, Boli is doing well, and I was glad to see him take his chance first time.
Chicago was pretty good for a bottom dweller on the East. They moved the ball around really quickly and precisely. Most teams we can win the ball fairly easily, but not so much tonight, due to their system and players and ability to move the ball quickly. They were the better team tonight.
Evander - when he didn't pass to Boli on the 4 on 1 counter, I couldn't believe it. That was beyond comprehension.
Also beyond comprehension, Chicago scoring on a quick throw in and no one marking Gutierrez so he could cross it in uncontested and Bravo marking Kamara. It was like a layup drill.
Gio - Is he just burned out and can't think straight? We are tied in the second half AT HOME and you don't sub first. The first subs come on at 70, and pretty much from then on it is chippy and lots of stoppage time and no flow and there is little impact. He should have made a move at 60 IMO, especially when you sub in multiple players so they have a chance to work together.
Good stuff. Agree about the winger thoughts. I see Santi as a connector as well, not so much a winger. I seem Evander and him potentially similar to a Valeri/ Blanco in their prime. I see Asprilla as a back up and that we need a new winger. With McGraw going international, Gio said we’re close to a new CB.
I love Moreno in the middle of the field since last season, but I’m not entirely certain he will work with the responsibility of a 10. I think he’s best cutting inside from the wing. It’s the same thing I say about fullbacks who do well in the attack like Mosquera: just because they’re good *going* forward, doesn’t mean they will be good *starting* forward. Same thing with Moreno. Now I’m not saying he won’t work as a 10, as I said I love him in the middle of the field, I’m just not certain it would work just from seeing him cut inside. A lot of his good play came from the wing, too.
At this point, I definitely think Asprilla is a 9 too. He still makes good runs into the box and is a problem for defenders. If Gio HAS to sub Boli out, I think I’d rather him bring on a winger and move Asprilla up to striker. I think he’d do a lot more than Niezgoda up there
RE: Moreno. He's probably the most talented Timber. He works with anybody on the field, and his speed and dribbling, and especially his passing is tough to defend against. He works best on the ball. You don't see him attacking wide areas, or running off the ball like a winger does, and I am inclined to think that is because it is not naturally what he wants to do or has been trained to do coming up as a player, not because that is what he is instructed. He's not going to score a ton like Valeri, but I think he would have his share and assist on a bunch and light up the league, especially if he were running the show. But, it is Evander's show, and Moreno has to play the wing(man), and so he wants to do it cutting in or pinching in, which works some times, but makes for a very congested, chaotic final third. So, if you are asking me, yes, I'd rather have Moreno running the 10 than Evander. He'd take us out of second gear, which seems to be the only gear Evander has.
Most of what you say matches my view of the game, too. However, it’s not our top choice lineup without Mora, Mosquera, and Yimmy Chara, as well as Williamson. As frustrating as it is to be subbing off our top attacking players, remember that the team played on Sunday and will play again on Saturday.
The team started the best lineup that it could , especially based on the players’ experience. However, it would have still been nice to see better, more consistent, and successful play! The Timbers went through most of the second half with only one additional shot from the 14 in the first 45 minutes, and finished with 17 shots overall.
"The team started the best lineup that it could , especially based on the players’ experience."
"it would have still been nice to see better, more consistent, and successful play!"
The first one's largely on Gavin. He's gone.
The second one's primarily on Gio. He's...not gone.
And yes, I realize the players do bear some responsibility for their play. However, all the stupid mistakes and lazy, loose passing and defensive mispositionings...those are mistakes that can be altered with coaching . If Gio sees them in a game, he needs to coach them out of his team, as much as possible, in practice.
He's not doing that, and that's why the Timbers are where they are.
Huge mess of a game. There needs to be several conversations. First, re Asprilla - my eye test is since his injury he's lost a touch. Sure he can turn a game and do something special, however it isn't happening anywhere near enough and the threat of pace seems to have diminished.
The substitutions were a mess last night. A poor game Evander was still better than Loria, Blanco and Niezgoda.
Oh boy, the ref was bad again. I usually stay out the ref topic, however he was just bad. He had the air of a sub teacher who couldn't control a class.
RE: Loria. With Chicago bunkered in, he's launching hopeful long balls with 10 minutes to go instead of trying to unlock the defense. Just crazy. Then he almost comes up with a spectacular play to equalize.
Subs in general - If you are tied at home and your starters aren't getting the job done, then you should be subbing a lot earlier than Gio did. And, the game really devolved and had no flow the last 20 minutes.
I don't mind the long balls given the circumstances, however Loria over hit at least two balls by about 20-30 yards. Those just deflated the entire team.
In my opinion the subs cost us the game. For sure the team wasn't doing in attack, but Blanco, Niezgoda and Loria made it worse.
Technically true because they were on when Chicago scored the winner. But why didn't starters do better? They should have been up 3-1 and the subs could have enjoyed some time in the sun.
I get the feeling refs try to keep visiting or lower teams in the game to make it interesting. The refs calls seemed
deflating to the team. After the Boli goal, I thought we’d be 3-1 by halftime. I thought this home friendly schedule would provide the 2/3 game win streak to get back in the race. It’s baffling. I thought the team was unmotivated for some reason. When Evander takes the ball into the final third, what’s he supposed to do with it. I don’t know; I don’t know if anyone else besides Boli knows. They miss their passes in the final third or try to thread the needle but it often doesn’t work. Evander, Santi and Boli subbed out was weird. Who was taking the ball up or doing the playmaking. Blanco? I was on the Gio bandwagon, but I wonder if he’s just an emotional players coach who is more “rah, rah” and “you can do it” and just not technical enough to unlock our players.
So bad. Continued sleepwalking and toothless attack. The midfield was terrible all game. Boli the only half threat and only on individual prowess (though putting in work, going after balls to the corner, making good passes. The rest? Hot garbage. While some may want to blame the CR (dumpster fire, to be sure), there is no way a halfway competent team and coach doesn’t win 4 or 5-1 tonight.
No news here though. We a are bottom third of the league team, which laughably may still be good enough for the playoffs.
Well, at least we'll be exhausted and without McGraw and Bravo has another yellow and Evander is decidedly just a great TAM guy and for sure Chara will not be starting, so you know, silver linings. XXOO
Honestly we should punt the MLS season and just go all-in on Leagues Cup because it's the only thing left for us to even dream of hanging a hat on. (Although that won't happen because I suspect Gio's contractual perks and performance indicators are based on league play.)
Window comes soon. Seems like Boli is going well right now, but a DP striker has been rumored fwiw, as CB has also been rumored for like 5 years.
I was mad last night. Less mad now. There have been stretches of dynamic, attractive play, but not nearly enough. My opinion is with this front four we should be scoring a lot more, and just as importantly to me, playing front foot soccer.
But the problem is we’re never more than two results from the playoff line. And for his clear faults Gio is a good tournament coach. I’m ready to move on. I really doubt it happens before the window. And unless we absolutely collapse the next few weeks he’ll probably get the rest of the year.
I’m in a weird spot. A playoff series win could paper over Gio and even the FO’s struggles and shortcomings. I’d never root against it. I just have no confidence Gio can guide this team to attractive soccer for more than 15 minutes every third game. He’ll likely have a chance to prove me wrong after the window with even more talent, but I just don’t see it happening.
There is no room in this window to add anything of substance. The CB is apparently on the agenda, but if a DP shows up it'll be a Young DP and not one that will make an immediate impact.
The big changes should be coming this off season, but getting to that is going to be rough.
"A playoff series win could paper over Gio and even the FO’s struggles and shortcomings. I’d never root against it"
That's what 2021 was, and it bought him 2022. And here we are. No more papering - if it takes missing the playoffs again, so be it. Gio needs to go.
I've been a huge Bravo fan from the beginning, but last night made me feel like burning his jersey. Guys getting by him, not being where he should have been on at least the first goal, rough fouls (which can also be a good part of his game at times) and constantly complaining about the calls. Maybe he's just frustrated with how the team is playing and it's effecting him. I don't know.
Watching Ted Lasso after the game made me wish he was managing the team. Is Evander becoming our Jamie Tartt?
I feel the same EXCEPT he may have just rode the bench for years in Portland and never developed into anything and then been released. I don’t think he was ever going to be Gio’s guy. So I am happy for him as I am for Jebo even though it hurts.
Farfan and Jebo were strikes against Gio's roster management. Add that to his overall management ability at this point, and it's amazing he's still employed.
Might as well get the discussions tarted. Mentioned it briefly on the game thread - but let's discuss the coaching seahECK, WHAT Irch (hopefully). Who do you want? Throw out whatever name, however unreaslistic. A few years ago, a Galaxy podcast invited fans to call in for threapy. This should be a therapeutic thread. So feel free to be as honest as you want to be. Say whatever gives you hope and makes you feel optimistic.
I joked on the match thread we should hire BJ Callaghan. Firempnow said Mikey Varas. I also wonder what Remko Bicentini is doing now. So let's have it.
I’ll never stop arguing that this is the silliest of ideas. But in all fairness, Ridgy couldn’t possibly be worse than Gio. I just hope their strategy for the next coach isn’t simply “be better than Gio”, because that’s the lowest bar imaginable.
Also - holy fuck that British announcer on Apple TV is just awful. It’s like parody of a good English announcer.
I usually don’t get too upset with the announcers (just happy I can see the game) but last night the combination of horrible play, horrible ref and horrible announcer was the trifecta of a bad experience.
I am trying to think of positives. Everyone mentioned Boli and I thought Zach was good (although why wasn’t he marking Keimara on the goal?).
Positives - Definitely add in Bingham. The one save when the ball came over the top (beautiful pass) and their forward was one on one and Bingham wrists it out - super! He had some others, too. Well done!
Asprilla and Blanco both out for Saturday, and Mora is healthy and available. Mosquera is also back, and even though he didn’t get any game time with Colombia and hasn’t trained with us for awhile, he should absolutely start because we need his fresh legs and dynamism. I’d really like to see a 3-5-2.
Ivacic
Miller, Mabiala, Zuparic
Mosquera, Paredes, Chara, Moreno, Bravo
Boli, Evander
I honestly have no clue what Gio will do with Mosquera, but we need him to start. I also highly doubt Mora will play more than 5-10 minutes.
We will not miss Asprilla. Get ready for Loria to start in his place (sigh).
Your lineup looks good, although Evander just doesn't seem to thrive as a forward type. I'd say Gio will stick with the same formation, and thus, Miller is dropped for Mosquera, and yes, we're going to have to roll with Mabiala. It should make it interesting for the over under bets. Moreno at one wing and Loria probably at the other. You know who I would like - I'd like to see Fogaca get a run at wing. Why not? This season is a bust, anyway.
FIRE GIO TOMORROW!!!!!
I don't know if this is a me problem or a sign of the current culture of the club but I don't even get mad, upset, angry or emotional over losses anymore. Likewise, when we win, or score I don't get overly excited. I use to jump and scream and startle the neighbors every goal, now none of that even phases me. I make an effort to watch every game but I am hardly as invested as I use to be.
I've notice as I watch a match from my couch, I am staring at my phone for large portions of the game. It's just bland, boring and rarely productive. Outside of Chara, I don't feel attached to any of the players on the field like say a Jewsbury, Valeri, Borchers etc... I wouldn't feel sad or emotional to see anyone leave.
5 years ago, had we lost to a 3 win Chicago fire team at home that we've never lost to, It'd be eating me alive. I would be up all night pissed about the outcome. Now its just like, "meh"... whatever. Is this a me problem? would things change if we had a new coach? owner? etc...
I live out of state, so don't get to attend games in Portland as much as I'd like... In fact, I haven't been back since before Covid.. And admittedly, I am not the most up to date with current affairs with upper management other than what's on the surface, but the crowd at providence park just doesn't seem as "intimidating" or "special" as it use to be. For the most part, Timbers Army seems tired, uninspired and merely going through the motions as a supporters group.
We were talking about that last night at the stadium. I've been going to Timbers games since 2009, and I've only missed a handful of MLS-era home games, and the vibe in-stadium is just...different now. Part of it is the stagnant play in the last 2-3 seasons, part of it is Merritt's issues, and part of it is probably the increase in ticket prices over the last few seasons which doesn't make it easy to justify the expense of a season ticket in light of the former two, but the in-stadium vibe is very much one of lower energy now. Maybe post-Covid changes in attitude too? I don't know.
As an anecdotal data point, my section - 111 - is two sections over from the Army. We have always been a standing section, as has 110 to our left. Last night, not only was 111 only about 75% full, but at one point I counted and there were nine people (including me) standing. That's different!
I'm not here to judge - people can sit or stand or whatever, fan however you want - but it is a markedly different, far less energetic vibe at games now than it was five years ago, for sure.
"For the most part, Timbers Army seems tired, uninspired and merely going through the motions as a supporters group."
Nailed it. The same chants, at the same times, and an infuriatingly reflexive booing of referees at any call that might even slightly be against the Timbers. I don't want to turn this into a referendum on the worth/value of the TA, because overall they're a net positive, but they're definitely running on muscle memory right now and doing things because they always do them, not because the team is inspiring them to do them.
You are not alone. I can relate to everything you said. I still get mad but it is from a lack of change being made at the club and the constant wrong choices ever since Fernandez.
I too look at my phone or just go to bed most games because I know how it is going to play out. I am rarely shocked anymore.
I have thought about this a lot. I constantly ask why is it not the same as it used to be. Why do fans not really care as much? Why is the TA not the same as it used to be? What are the issues and how do you fix it?
Q. Why is it not the same anymore?
A. This has a lot of parts to it.
1. There are phases to Fandom. In the first couple of years the crowd energy is merely pushed on by being new in the league and its an exciting and new experience. You see it all the time with these new teams. Because it is new and exciting people take a deeper interest in the sport as a whole. Especially new fans. They take in everything they can and even look elsewhere to get their soccer fix. Like watching other mls teams because it impacts their teams standings. Then in the off-season they watch other leagues to keep feeding their new passion. Slowly but surely it is not just about the emotion of supporting the team but they start to actually understand the game and what "beautiful soccer" is. They become educated fans. Then they have an idea of what a good product is and when it isn't a good product. That is where we are. We have a very smart fan base that had been following this team and sport for years. Be it before mls or during mls. We have been in the league 12 years now. People know what is beautiful soccer and don't enjoy watching ugly soccer. It's like hearing a kid play Mozart on a piano after just learning how to play it, or going to a concert hall and hearing a professional musician. Sure you could listen to the kid play but it's not as enjoyable. You just do it to be supportive. That brings me to the next issue in this question.
2. Ugly soccer and poor results. We have been mediocre for years. Low ambition signings, Ugly soccer, and low expectations being acceptable. There is no accountability for the players, coach, and FO. In any other league you can have hope because most leagues would fire their coach for such poor results. Most teams would trade players who don't perform or can't anymore. We do neither. So there is no hope that change will happen. So if you have no hope than what is the point in caring. That is where this team is at. And so most fans just lose interest. We have seen this from the Blazers for decades. A franchise that finds one good player, then rides him into the dirt and use him to string along a fan base even though they have no real ambition of challenging for a championship. They just want to do enough to keep people coming to games and spending money. Ffs NIKE AND ADIDAS headquarters are in Oregon and you are telling me they can't get players to come to the team. Anyway......that's off topic. It's a lack of hope that we have seen for many years in Oregon, from many different teams.
3. Mp and the FO. I do think this has some part to do with it but I don't think it is even close to as much of the issue. Sure what they did was wrong but I can't help but think most people's anger is really towards the teams results. I think the FO is more at fault for not holding anyone accountable for anything. But still, results are the biggest issue I think most people have.
4. The expectations of the team. This goes into what I said above. It has been obvious that this team under gio has not been about being the best in the league but barely doing enough to get into the playoffs and trying to make a run. It means that essentially they are telling the fans and the players that half of thebseason doesn't mean shit. Play ugly. Give half ass effort. (As we have seen over and over and over under gio) when we are in panic mode then you all need to step up and try to win. That is a shit attitude and not one that any fan wants for their club. It is disrespectful to the badge, the fans, the league, and the players future. Which is why our players never develop. Our team is being bread with a toxic culture and ideology of everyone gets a trophy. And if you don't believe that is exactly what "just do enough to make the playoffs" is, than I can't help you. It's lazy and only hurts the players, clubs and fans. We all see what is going on. Some have accepted it and said "well as long as they make the playoffs." Those are the people who are an accessory to the toxic "good is good enough" culture. And are just as much to blame for our teams failure as gio, fo and players.
B. Why is the TA not the same.
1. All the BS the TA has done over the years. The TA has politicized the TA. They stopped worrying about making the TA a fun experience and weaponized it to bring their activist ideology into the "GameDay experience." It stopped being about soccer and became about seeing what power they had over the FO. It doesn't matter if you agree with them or not. They needed to understand that GameDay experiences in the stadium are sacred. If they want to protest do it before the game or before during the week. (He'll they can lineup up for Seattle vs Portland days in advance but can't protest days before the game) they made it not enjoyable for awhile to be part of the TA. Most people go to games to have fun and enjoy the games with their friends and family. Not to have to worry about protesting or if they will get beat up for buying concessions. I buy Dutch bros all the time. (Probably spend around 300 a month on it) but nothing beats buying Dutch bros on a cold, rainy night at the stadium. Even if it costs me more. It is a tradition that I look forward to doing for decades to come. We all have those little things that make GameDays special.
2. The repetitive songs. For the love of God come up with some more songs that are actually enjoyable to sing. I don't know how many times I have heard certain songs start and only a quarter of the TA is singing it. While other chants everyone is singing. Like how do they not see based on fan engagement that certain songs need to go away. You have to refresh every so often. For awhile we stopped singing "oh referee oh referee take another bong hit" and "I'm blind, I'm deaf, I wanna be a ref." Among other chants deemed "inappropriate" but those are some of the chants that are the loudest in the stadium. Because it's fun and people love to haze the ref. Or chants that have a cus word in them. People scream that word at the top of their lungs because they love to put all their emotion into that word. But the point is that the TA is lethargic and honestly needs new leadership. People with fresh ideas and have a way of bringing people together in a fun way. Not run like an oligarchy.
For all these reasons I think most fans who aren't just casual fans, are kinda losing their love for the team.
If I owned this team I would be doing everything I could to make the TA fun and exciting again and everything to make the Timbers a global brand.
You really did a good job of summarizing what seems to be occurring. As an ex-season ticket holder, I agree that the environment, to include all the TA social commentary and obvious "mailing it in" attitude of the organization in whole have numbed my feelings toward the team as well.
We can all see the issues, but the money keeps rolling in, so why change? Every year, prices go up, but quality of play and overall fan experience goes down. We cannot attract proven talent... Heck, Powercube plays for the Fire! We get Concacaf and Conmebol seconds and thirds... Which is good enough to be where we're at, but it's not exciting.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "proven talent". Last year's MVP (and probably this year's too, at the rate he's going) Hany Mukhtar wasn't exactly setting the soccer world alight in Europe before he came here, after all.
I'm not saying the Timbers should have gotten Mukhtar specifically, but "proven talent" isn't the only path to success. it's true that GW didn't really ever go after bigger names or more proven talent, but it's also true that that's not a prerequisite for success as a player in MLS.
I want the Timbers to be better at talent evaluation and identification in all aspects - whether that's finding diamonds in the rough or bringing in a name we've all heard, I don't really care. They just need to get better at identifying good players so there are fewer Niezgoda/Mabiala level mistakes going forward.
I am somewhere early on your soccer fan continuum - still learning the game - and at actual matches I'm a bit more into the fan experience than the dynamics of play. (We often rewatch the game on TV after the match ).
I am not ally on my feet the whole time but for the Chicago game I was reasonably pumped up for the first fifteen or twenty minutes, but gradually lost energy.
The "when I root I root for the timbers" chant is getting super repetitive (why so many times through the match?) and lots of the songs just sounded like droning.
Eventually I was just staring stupidly at the field watching the game regardless of results.
What were we gonna do, madly cheer for a 2-2 draw against a dead last team, so we can hang onto 9th place?
Interesting observation about the TA.
Maybe it's just the energy of the game transferred into the fans?
Same. Its wierd... I rarely watch full games anymore. I live in the Portland area and will maybe make 3 games during the season. The main way I follow the team is internet discussions, highlights, and stat sheets. I still like the team a lot. Something has just felt different over the last few years
Maybe it's just a changing of the guard, and no one has seized control of the team like Valeri did when he arrived. That guy obviously was transformative, and he was from the get go. His first game against New York (?) and he scores that amazing goal flipping it by the defender. From then on, it was more of the same.
Blanco has had some legendary moments and he certainly is a fan favorite and ready to take over for Valeri, but then injuries derailed that. There have been some good signings and player acquisitions in the past few years (Mosquera, Moreno, Zup) and some developmental pieces that have brought fruit (Paredes, McGraw) but for the most part, the team has been thrown together in a hodge podge fashion and players have been misidentified and given roles that don't suit them. Moreno as a wing, Evander as a 10, even Asprilla as a wing, and Y Chara as a wing. Gio adapts by pinching in these "wing" players and the result is chaotic backyard soccer. So, I don't know who is to blame for this roster, but it is a mess, although I think it is decent enough that if Gio put the best 11 out there, which he has not been doing, he could scrap together some better results.
The Army is still doing it. It may not be peak energy but it’s there. They got taken out of the game early last night. In general midweeks are a bit low key.
Some good play will get the place howling again.
real supporters' groups do not "get taken out of a game"!
I think the game took it out of the supporters
Lol RCTWGTOOTG
(Rose City ‘til We Get Taken Out Of The Game)
Evander was shit tonight. In the waning minutes of the first half he turned over the ball three times in under two minutes. Ball was taken at his feet, he made a bad pass, and lost the ball when he kicked it too far ahead of him on a promising run. Then that fiasco of the 69th minute. He plays with little intensity or effort. He’s clearly talented but far from the playmaker we need. I know, he needs time to adjust to MLS, does that mean he’ll pick up the pace or intensity next season?
Yes, the center official tried to match the Timber’s quality, but please don’t blame the loss on him. It’s been years since I left a game before the final kick, but tonight I only wish I left earlier than I did. Not going to Saturday’s match, I need to save my money and energy for a group that can get their shit together.
"He plays with little intensity or effort."
How do you know that? You're not inside his head. You're not on his team. There are legit things to criticize about his game last night, for sure, but we on the outside have no way of knowing his level of energy or effort. Reading body language is about the worst way to evaluate athletes I can think of, in any sport.
And yes, he'll be fine long term - a lot of his issues are also because most of the pieces around him aren't great, so it may be that he feels like he has to do it all himself at this point which is leading him to make mistakes. I don't know, but of all the things I'm worried about on the Timbers right now I'm also worried about him probably the least.
He almost had a goal last night but the keeper got down. I'd say it wasn't fast enough leg whip, but he did pretty well to get it off accurately given the congested circumstances.
Boli's nice drive and shot got cleared off the line by the backside defender. It could have been a rout, but alas, it wasn't. Nothing seems to be going right.
The Evander move strikes me as a building block for next season, when some new players come in, but even so, he seems more of an 8 than a 10. He doesn't seem to have the leg whip of a Valeri to put any pace on his shots, and he's not going to blow by anybody. He can pass well. He's a better Williamson.
Here’s a very important stat: we are DEAD LAST in MLS in possession.
It’s gross.
I should note there are good teams in the bottom third. I just don’t want to play this way anymore.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/22/possession/Major-League-Soccer-Stats
Evander had a bad game but once he came off we had nothing going forward. He’s the only player that can make something happen. Boli has been good for several games in a row, there is absolutely zero reason to be taking him off for Niezgoda. Why is he always the first one subbed? He’s consistently one of our best players, and the drop off from him to Niezgoda is pretty clear, despite Niezgoda playing with more energy.
Yeah, teams just not good right now. Our first choice lineup is our there but there’s not a ton of chemistry. I thought Moreno had one of his best games of the season, most of our good offensive movements went through him. We need a better system in order to unlock him, because he’s such a great player, and him and a Evander should be combining much more
Bingham was my MOTM by a long shot. I have no worries whenever he’s in the lineup, which is great to say about a backup keeper. Losing McGraw is gonna be rough, all we can hope for is for Miller to start at CB instead of Mabiala, but I have no real hope for that. Gio doesn’t have the team playing better than the sum of their parts right now, and I don’t think that will change. We rely on individual moments of brilliance, often coming from Evander, or mistakes from the opponent, and when that doesn’t work then there’s nothing. Which is quite disappointing because we see flashes of what can be a really exciting front line
If you notice, most of Moreno's good plays come from being in the middle or the channels. He did have one really nice cross tonight. But, he's a 10, and if you want to unlock him, play him as a 10. On the other side of your exciting front line, you have Asprilla, who is really a 9. So, you have no danger being created on the wings - at all. Think about it, nothing is being generated outside. There are no crosses, no cut ins and shots. 50 percent of the field is not being used. On the plus side, Boli is doing well, and I was glad to see him take his chance first time.
Chicago was pretty good for a bottom dweller on the East. They moved the ball around really quickly and precisely. Most teams we can win the ball fairly easily, but not so much tonight, due to their system and players and ability to move the ball quickly. They were the better team tonight.
Evander - when he didn't pass to Boli on the 4 on 1 counter, I couldn't believe it. That was beyond comprehension.
Also beyond comprehension, Chicago scoring on a quick throw in and no one marking Gutierrez so he could cross it in uncontested and Bravo marking Kamara. It was like a layup drill.
Gio - Is he just burned out and can't think straight? We are tied in the second half AT HOME and you don't sub first. The first subs come on at 70, and pretty much from then on it is chippy and lots of stoppage time and no flow and there is little impact. He should have made a move at 60 IMO, especially when you sub in multiple players so they have a chance to work together.
Good stuff. Agree about the winger thoughts. I see Santi as a connector as well, not so much a winger. I seem Evander and him potentially similar to a Valeri/ Blanco in their prime. I see Asprilla as a back up and that we need a new winger. With McGraw going international, Gio said we’re close to a new CB.
I love Moreno in the middle of the field since last season, but I’m not entirely certain he will work with the responsibility of a 10. I think he’s best cutting inside from the wing. It’s the same thing I say about fullbacks who do well in the attack like Mosquera: just because they’re good *going* forward, doesn’t mean they will be good *starting* forward. Same thing with Moreno. Now I’m not saying he won’t work as a 10, as I said I love him in the middle of the field, I’m just not certain it would work just from seeing him cut inside. A lot of his good play came from the wing, too.
At this point, I definitely think Asprilla is a 9 too. He still makes good runs into the box and is a problem for defenders. If Gio HAS to sub Boli out, I think I’d rather him bring on a winger and move Asprilla up to striker. I think he’d do a lot more than Niezgoda up there
RE: Moreno. He's probably the most talented Timber. He works with anybody on the field, and his speed and dribbling, and especially his passing is tough to defend against. He works best on the ball. You don't see him attacking wide areas, or running off the ball like a winger does, and I am inclined to think that is because it is not naturally what he wants to do or has been trained to do coming up as a player, not because that is what he is instructed. He's not going to score a ton like Valeri, but I think he would have his share and assist on a bunch and light up the league, especially if he were running the show. But, it is Evander's show, and Moreno has to play the wing(man), and so he wants to do it cutting in or pinching in, which works some times, but makes for a very congested, chaotic final third. So, if you are asking me, yes, I'd rather have Moreno running the 10 than Evander. He'd take us out of second gear, which seems to be the only gear Evander has.
It's as if Gio writes down his sub strategy the night before and sticks to it regardless of what's happening on the pitch.
Most of what you say matches my view of the game, too. However, it’s not our top choice lineup without Mora, Mosquera, and Yimmy Chara, as well as Williamson. As frustrating as it is to be subbing off our top attacking players, remember that the team played on Sunday and will play again on Saturday.
Right, guess I just meant first choice lineup with who is available, which means nothing. Not sure what I’m saying there
The team started the best lineup that it could , especially based on the players’ experience. However, it would have still been nice to see better, more consistent, and successful play! The Timbers went through most of the second half with only one additional shot from the 14 in the first 45 minutes, and finished with 17 shots overall.
"The team started the best lineup that it could , especially based on the players’ experience."
"it would have still been nice to see better, more consistent, and successful play!"
The first one's largely on Gavin. He's gone.
The second one's primarily on Gio. He's...not gone.
And yes, I realize the players do bear some responsibility for their play. However, all the stupid mistakes and lazy, loose passing and defensive mispositionings...those are mistakes that can be altered with coaching . If Gio sees them in a game, he needs to coach them out of his team, as much as possible, in practice.
He's not doing that, and that's why the Timbers are where they are.
"But if that’s the case, then a few questions have to be asked of Giovanni Savarese"
Question 1: Why do you still have a job
Question 2: No really why
Question 3: We're not joking we really want to know can you help give some insight there
Huge mess of a game. There needs to be several conversations. First, re Asprilla - my eye test is since his injury he's lost a touch. Sure he can turn a game and do something special, however it isn't happening anywhere near enough and the threat of pace seems to have diminished.
The substitutions were a mess last night. A poor game Evander was still better than Loria, Blanco and Niezgoda.
Oh boy, the ref was bad again. I usually stay out the ref topic, however he was just bad. He had the air of a sub teacher who couldn't control a class.
Yeah Asprilla has lost his first step and without that acceleration ability he just isn't the threat he once was.
RE: Loria. With Chicago bunkered in, he's launching hopeful long balls with 10 minutes to go instead of trying to unlock the defense. Just crazy. Then he almost comes up with a spectacular play to equalize.
Subs in general - If you are tied at home and your starters aren't getting the job done, then you should be subbing a lot earlier than Gio did. And, the game really devolved and had no flow the last 20 minutes.
I don't mind the long balls given the circumstances, however Loria over hit at least two balls by about 20-30 yards. Those just deflated the entire team.
In my opinion the subs cost us the game. For sure the team wasn't doing in attack, but Blanco, Niezgoda and Loria made it worse.
Technically true because they were on when Chicago scored the winner. But why didn't starters do better? They should have been up 3-1 and the subs could have enjoyed some time in the sun.
I get the feeling refs try to keep visiting or lower teams in the game to make it interesting. The refs calls seemed
deflating to the team. After the Boli goal, I thought we’d be 3-1 by halftime. I thought this home friendly schedule would provide the 2/3 game win streak to get back in the race. It’s baffling. I thought the team was unmotivated for some reason. When Evander takes the ball into the final third, what’s he supposed to do with it. I don’t know; I don’t know if anyone else besides Boli knows. They miss their passes in the final third or try to thread the needle but it often doesn’t work. Evander, Santi and Boli subbed out was weird. Who was taking the ball up or doing the playmaking. Blanco? I was on the Gio bandwagon, but I wonder if he’s just an emotional players coach who is more “rah, rah” and “you can do it” and just not technical enough to unlock our players.
So bad. Continued sleepwalking and toothless attack. The midfield was terrible all game. Boli the only half threat and only on individual prowess (though putting in work, going after balls to the corner, making good passes. The rest? Hot garbage. While some may want to blame the CR (dumpster fire, to be sure), there is no way a halfway competent team and coach doesn’t win 4 or 5-1 tonight.
No news here though. We a are bottom third of the league team, which laughably may still be good enough for the playoffs.
Well, at least we'll be exhausted and without McGraw and Bravo has another yellow and Evander is decidedly just a great TAM guy and for sure Chara will not be starting, so you know, silver linings. XXOO
Will they really miss Bravo getting beat 1v1 all night? I guess when the other option is Bonilla it could get worse
Bravo has not looked good, but I'd probably play like crap too if I had to play with Asprilla on my side.
I've bagged on Bonilla plenty, but he's looked good this year in his limited times.
Honestly we should punt the MLS season and just go all-in on Leagues Cup because it's the only thing left for us to even dream of hanging a hat on. (Although that won't happen because I suspect Gio's contractual perks and performance indicators are based on league play.)
There’s no way this team is beating Tigres.
Window comes soon. Seems like Boli is going well right now, but a DP striker has been rumored fwiw, as CB has also been rumored for like 5 years.
I was mad last night. Less mad now. There have been stretches of dynamic, attractive play, but not nearly enough. My opinion is with this front four we should be scoring a lot more, and just as importantly to me, playing front foot soccer.
But the problem is we’re never more than two results from the playoff line. And for his clear faults Gio is a good tournament coach. I’m ready to move on. I really doubt it happens before the window. And unless we absolutely collapse the next few weeks he’ll probably get the rest of the year.
I’m in a weird spot. A playoff series win could paper over Gio and even the FO’s struggles and shortcomings. I’d never root against it. I just have no confidence Gio can guide this team to attractive soccer for more than 15 minutes every third game. He’ll likely have a chance to prove me wrong after the window with even more talent, but I just don’t see it happening.
Ned better not whiff again.
There is no room in this window to add anything of substance. The CB is apparently on the agenda, but if a DP shows up it'll be a Young DP and not one that will make an immediate impact.
The big changes should be coming this off season, but getting to that is going to be rough.
"A playoff series win could paper over Gio and even the FO’s struggles and shortcomings. I’d never root against it"
That's what 2021 was, and it bought him 2022. And here we are. No more papering - if it takes missing the playoffs again, so be it. Gio needs to go.
Really a shame because Boli's goal was a beaut and more of what I wish we saw from this team. The rest, awful.
I've been a huge Bravo fan from the beginning, but last night made me feel like burning his jersey. Guys getting by him, not being where he should have been on at least the first goal, rough fouls (which can also be a good part of his game at times) and constantly complaining about the calls. Maybe he's just frustrated with how the team is playing and it's effecting him. I don't know.
Watching Ted Lasso after the game made me wish he was managing the team. Is Evander becoming our Jamie Tartt?
I'm still bitter that we traded Farfan, a young domestic LB who has developed into a 2000+ min. a year lock down starter for Dallas.
I feel the same EXCEPT he may have just rode the bench for years in Portland and never developed into anything and then been released. I don’t think he was ever going to be Gio’s guy. So I am happy for him as I am for Jebo even though it hurts.
Farfan and Jebo were strikes against Gio's roster management. Add that to his overall management ability at this point, and it's amazing he's still employed.
Might as well get the discussions tarted. Mentioned it briefly on the game thread - but let's discuss the coaching seahECK, WHAT Irch (hopefully). Who do you want? Throw out whatever name, however unreaslistic. A few years ago, a Galaxy podcast invited fans to call in for threapy. This should be a therapeutic thread. So feel free to be as honest as you want to be. Say whatever gives you hope and makes you feel optimistic.
I joked on the match thread we should hire BJ Callaghan. Firempnow said Mikey Varas. I also wonder what Remko Bicentini is doing now. So let's have it.
Ridgy, mate
I’ll never stop arguing that this is the silliest of ideas. But in all fairness, Ridgy couldn’t possibly be worse than Gio. I just hope their strategy for the next coach isn’t simply “be better than Gio”, because that’s the lowest bar imaginable.
Also - holy fuck that British announcer on Apple TV is just awful. It’s like parody of a good English announcer.
I usually don’t get too upset with the announcers (just happy I can see the game) but last night the combination of horrible play, horrible ref and horrible announcer was the trifecta of a bad experience.
I am trying to think of positives. Everyone mentioned Boli and I thought Zach was good (although why wasn’t he marking Keimara on the goal?).
Positives - Definitely add in Bingham. The one save when the ball came over the top (beautiful pass) and their forward was one on one and Bingham wrists it out - super! He had some others, too. Well done!
Ridgewell as interim for the rest of the season, then Jesse Marsch. Make a statement. Take a leap. Hire a proven name.
Jesse won't take a step back into mls. He will go overseas again.
our d is a huge part of the problem. ridgy coaches the d!
Ridgy probably has very little say about defensive tactics overall. Gio would still be responsible for that.
Asprilla and Blanco both out for Saturday, and Mora is healthy and available. Mosquera is also back, and even though he didn’t get any game time with Colombia and hasn’t trained with us for awhile, he should absolutely start because we need his fresh legs and dynamism. I’d really like to see a 3-5-2.
Ivacic
Miller, Mabiala, Zuparic
Mosquera, Paredes, Chara, Moreno, Bravo
Boli, Evander
I honestly have no clue what Gio will do with Mosquera, but we need him to start. I also highly doubt Mora will play more than 5-10 minutes.
We will not miss Asprilla. Get ready for Loria to start in his place (sigh).
Your lineup looks good, although Evander just doesn't seem to thrive as a forward type. I'd say Gio will stick with the same formation, and thus, Miller is dropped for Mosquera, and yes, we're going to have to roll with Mabiala. It should make it interesting for the over under bets. Moreno at one wing and Loria probably at the other. You know who I would like - I'd like to see Fogaca get a run at wing. Why not? This season is a bust, anyway.
Yeah I predict the formation will stay the same unfortunately, with Mabiala starting over Miller at center back.
Evander has played well before as a second forward. It gives him a free role to roam around and find the game, and gets him closer to goal
Yes, any way to get Evander on the ball is a good thing, generally, and the hope is to find him often.