Gio had nearly a month - with no distractions, no games, nothing in the way - to prepare his team for this match and get the new players integrated with the squad. Gio knew that D Chara would be out for this match. The injuries/illness in the last week obviously weren't part of the plan, but Gio's job is to mitigate those things as best he can. Gio did not do anything of the sort tonight. Also: Houston had to play in the heat too.
Gio should not be on the flight home.
This was inexcusably poor in a season that has seen its fair share of garden-variety poor. How much more of this is necessary to prove that Gio is done here?
Dear God I hope gio is gone before our next "dp" and "tam" players are signed in the off-season. Let a new coach choose who he wants to bring in to help the team. Don't hinder the coach by saying "we just signed all these new guys"
There's a championship team in Portland that defines toughness and heart — the Thorns. Playing first-place North Carolina at home, they go down a player and goal in about the 19th minute. Manage to tie it up before half and then win 2-1 on Sophie Smith's goal 20 seconds after entering the match. It's the first time in NWSL history that a team has had a first-half red card and won.
Maybe Gio and Timbers should watch a replay and learn a few things.
Hey I'm with you on that one. He wouldn't be out of place on the timbers back line. At fault for more than one goal yesterday. I'm a sucker for punishment being a Wolves and a Timbers fan.
“As the person in charge, it starts with me,” Savarese said. “But I think this time the players can’t escape from the reality that nobody put out a full performance.”
It starts with me but it's everyone else's fault too.........wut?
“It was a hard match,” said midfielder Cristhian Paredes. “We need to be realistic. We played a horrible game tonight. We just need to look forward and focus on the next match.”
I hate how the answer is alway.......well ........on to the next one. Like they could care less.
Gio’s not at all wrong, none of the players looked like they wanted to be there and put in very low effort. I don’t think Gio set them up very well tactically, but Gio didn’t tell them to go out there and not try. However, it shows there’s a serious rift between the coaching staff and the players. The team doesn’t work well with Gio for the most part and it’s time for him to go
No. They are professionals earning a salary. You can be unhappy all you want. But effort is a minimum requirement of keeping ones job no matter who the boss is.
Honestly, I'd rather have them say "we need to look forward" than "we're gonna wallow about this one for a long time". The schedule doesn't care what the last game looked like, there's always a next game coming up quickly.
The players have no choice but to forget this result and try not to repeat that level of performance next week, and that starts with putting this game to bed, mentally, on the flight home from Texas.
I prefer them to take accountability after two seasons of shit, with many games of them just giving up. It's getting boarder line treasonous against the fans.
What does "take accountability" look like for you in this case? What would you have them say?
I mean, athletes in any sport aren't exactly in the habit of saying "I suck at my job", so I'm not sure why we would expect any different here. There's not gonna be a GoT-style walk of shame once they get off the plane; they're going to get back to work today and hopefully start to erase the mistakes they made yesterday.
I want them to play better. I could not care less what they say about their play in between the times that they play, because none of that stuff matters.
I want them holding a banner apologizing to the fans for playing like shit, and they will do better. At this point they are acting like spoiled children who don't care how their piss poor performance bothers the fans. It seems like they are playing for a check and not for the badge. I want mature players. Not spoiled children with no accountability.
"At this point they are acting like spoiled children who don't care how their piss poor performance bothers the fans."
I mean, that's a take? I guess? I haven't seen anything from any Timbers player that says "spoiled child". I've seen a lot of bad performances, for sure, but it's not like the Timbers are sulking and throwing tantrums; they're just a bad team playing badly.
But honestly, for me, they don't owe me an apology. I want them to be better, I'm mad that they're not better, but that's sports; sometimes the team you love is just shitty. They're not doing it on purpose; they're just not a talented group of players, and this is what we get when that happens. They don't need to apologize; they need to get better.
The Timbers definitely looked like USL quality last night. I felt bad for Evander who looked like he didn't know who to pass to because it wouldn't end well.
I think Evander was a bad signing though, he thinks he's better than everyone, looses the ball(trying to meg someone) then usually fouls someone. That goal where Bravo caused a PK was due to Evander trying to beat two guys and losing it around the 18.
Imagine looking at this roster and thinking Evander is a problem. C'mon.
"he thinks he's better than everyone"
(looks at rest of Timbers roster)
Turns out he kinda is!
"That goal where Bravo caused a PK was due to Evander trying to beat two guys"
Nope. That PK was caused by Bravo stepping on a guy's heel. It wasn't intentional, it wasn't even something Bravo knew happened until it did. It was just one of those fluke things that wasn't really anyone's fault.
The Timbers have a whooooooooole lot of problems. Evander absolutely isn't one of them.
I liked him at first, now I don't. I don't like people who are pompous and that's how he plays. And it shows in his striking out at the opposition(one red and how many yellows?) And his trying to nutmeg everyone. Nope, not a fan of him. Maybe he'll get better but I'm doubtful.
I disagree - Evander is a serious problem because he provides little to no leadership on the field and has revealed himself to be VERY immature. He’s just an additional drag on a team that doesn’t any more.
He's been a Timber for seven months. Two of those months he was injured. A good part of one of those months was a Leagues Cup break in which no games were played. How much leadership do you honestly expect a guy who's new to the country and new to the league to provide in four months of activity?
"has revealed himself to be VERY immature."
Examples? Are you referring to the red card in June? If so, I'll grant that was bad/dumb, but has he repeated that behavior since? Or even come close? I would say he hasn't, which means...he's learning (his other red card was for a foul, and he hasn't really shown a lot of petulance towards other players since). That's the mark of a maturing player.
I have high expectations for Evander, and he's mostly fulfilled them up to this point; the problem is he's surrounded by terrible players who play no discernible system whatsoever, so it's hard to see what Evander brings to the table, even when he's bringing it.
I know we’ve all been asking for this but dang it’s kinda sad now that it’s a reality. I love the guy as a person and will look back at his time at Portland extremely fondly. I’m gonna miss him, he was always a class act and a really positive personality. Up until recently, it seems like he fostered a really great locker room environment. Brought us to two MLS cups and won the MLS is Back trophy, which I think is a legitimate accomplishment. However, it was definitely time to move on. The team is fractured and it’s going to take a good while for it to heal. Good luck to him, I hope he finds a good job elsewhere
Not a Gio apologist (I am annoyed that we extended him last year when things were already starting to turn away from "quality", the club completely tied their own hands financially with that decision), but all the apologists have at this point is "we have old men in critical positions, new guys who are not acclimating well" and are playing out the string until we can sign some guys to make a difference next year. I said in Feb I thought this was going to be a long season and another playoff miss. We were too old, too injured and just didn't have horses in places that mattered. Evander has been hot and cold and quite honestly the team's play has directly followed his cycle.
I thought Gio had lost the team at SKC in May based on their body language. I was shocked to see better play in Leagues Cup which was obviously fool's gold after last night's abhorrent display.
The only reason to keep Gio at this point is that MP/Management don't want to take the financial loss of paying him off.
One thing I keep hearing from people is the injury excuse. I saw some people say (not here) that we were better in leagues Cup because we finally had a healthy team, which made no sense to me. We played Monterrey without Evander and looked miles better than previously. We had a two month stretch where we had a nearly first choice starting eleven and we lost to Chicago and Minnesota (missing Reynoso and Lod) at home. We had a nearly first choice lineup when we went to SKC and got destroyed. Injuries have not played that much of a part this year, and I think the leagues cup games prove that. Besides Mora, we had pretty much the same players available as we had previously, and we looked a whole lot better.
Near the beginning of the year, injuries was a valid excuse. We were playing Diego Gutierrez as a central midfielder. But it isn’t anymore
Apologies for being pedantic, but Hank's net worth is not sitting in a Timbers bank account.
The Timbers operating capital is a small fraction of Hank's net worth and completely independent of Hank's net worth, nor even the team's new worth (which is nearly the same as Hank's personal worth itself). All that net worth does for you is gives you things to sell for cash if you need it, hopefully investments that are making money also and collateral for loans. It doesn't exist to put money into your investments that you will never get back.
At its very simplest, the reason to form a business as a legal entity is to protect your personal assets. You expect the business to be self sustaining. If you are asking the owner to constantly invest their personal capital you have a problem. There are cases where this happens that are acceptable (such as something that increases the value of your business by the same amount, or more - say investing $1m that results in 100 new seats that sell for $1000 each. 10 year ROI and after that you are making money from it, immediately increases value of franchise.
Paying a coach to go away from your personal funds is not that. You are simply choosing to hand $1m to someone to go away. It might be different if Gio was actively sabotaging the organization, saying bad things about Hank and MP (in which case he would just get fired, with cause, and cost them nothing) or was doing that behind the scenes ... but they like him and are not going to pay $1m to make him go away and another $1m to bring in someone different. I can almost promise you that is the thinking. Had they not extended him last year, I am just as certain that they would be letting him go and searching for a new coach right now.
Now, maybe they could take up a collection at games and have the 24k fans each chip in $40 each to fund the goodbye fund, but in addition to the lack of desire to get rid of him, one person in management who knows the game but almost surely doesn't feel empowered to flush $1m of the team's money (Ned) and another (Heather) who doesn't know soccer well enough to judge with an absentee owner ... who really gets to make the call anyway? And if you are Ned or Heather do you say "lets spend $1m of the team's money for a new coach" and risk angering the absentee owner? Nah.
Oh, I understand that it isn't that easy. But I also understand that
"You are simply choosing to hand $1m to someone to go away."
is well within the reach of the Paulson family, without batting an eye, should they have the desire to do it. The funds to dismiss an underperforming employee don't come from gate receipts or merch; that comes from injections of cash from ownership. In cases of ownership groups, it's a cash call; in cases where single entities own teams, it comes from their pocket.
"If you are asking the owner to constantly invest their personal capital you have a problem."
There's nothing "constant" about it, that's my point. This is an extraordinary circumstance. It's not like they fire coaches on long term contracts every season. All I'm saying is that Gio could be gone tomorrow and, financially, the Timbers and the Paulson family wouldn't even remotely feel the hit.
"It doesn't exist to put money into your investments that you will never get back."
Sports teams, in general, aren't owned for day-to-day profits. They're owned for the day that they're sold, when they're sold for 10-20x what they were bought for.
"Now, maybe they could take up a collection at games and have the 24k fans each chip in $40 each to fund the goodbye fund,"
hahahahahahaha hell no am I ever going to "donate" money to a rich sports team owner for any purpose related to team operations. I already give them ticket money.
"but they like him and are not going to pay $1m to make him go away and another $1m to bring in someone different."
This is 100% the crux of it, not the finances of it all. If they wanted to, they would and could find the $2M. They just don't want to.
"hahahahahahaha hell no am I ever going to "donate" money to a rich sports team owner for any purpose related to team operations. I already give them ticket money."
I hate to tell you, but the Paulsons right now are saying "hahahahaha, hell no am I ever going to sink $1m of my own money just to make a coach go away".
Hard to think he lost the locker room after the tourney showing. Possible I guess. I feel like locker room/motivation was Gio’s best quality.
Anyway, he had more success here than our sentiment may suggest. Here’s hoping Gio lands on his feet and we bring in someone with a vision for attractive play.
I don’t know, things don’t just turn like that overnight. I agree his locker room environment was absolutely his best quality, and not something I thought would be a problem this year. I think Leagues Cup just provided some motivation for the players in one way or another, plus we were playing at home and we usually don’t completely combust as a team at home. The road games are more telling, the performance at Houston wasn’t a one off, it’s happened way too many times. It does not feel like the majority of players want to play for him anymore. And with this Moreno situation, it’s only amplified that. Being this bad makes players not want to play for the coach. I’m hoping we see Moreno play a bit better under a different coach, I’d love to see him back to his last season form
I just think that things have gone stale. Managers and players dont normally hang around in a job more then 3 years. Think Gio have just out stayed his term, I hope that a new broom will sweep clean the webs and put a spring in the step of some of the players that have a couple of years left. Get rid of the ones on the slide past 32, get Gio out and a new guy in with new ideas and let him build for the rest of this season and then start off with a bang next. This season is a blowout but lets see if we can plant seeds for next season. As a Wolves and Timbers fan and being a Brit I follow the Eric Idle words of "Always look on the bright side of life"
Unless they've been talking to someone for a month or two behind the scenes, any coach that comes in today is going to be an interim coach, I think. There's only 10 games left in the season, and the roster right now is what it is. I don't think bringing in a hopefully long-term coach right now is the best idea; just give Ridgewell or Llamosa the job for the rest of this season and spend that time courting and signing a new coach for the long term, starting in November.
Agree. They would take a long time to hire someone.
Gio happened to be looking at the time Porter quit, was a very successful NASL coach because their salary system was different and they simply had the deepest pockets and could buy the best talent in the league.
We fired John Spencer in the summer, July if memory serves, and GW coached the rest of the season while casting off players and starting to build for the next year. Ricketts came in almost immediately (early August) which was apparently a Porter demand - and we didn't even announce Porter until a while later, when the ink was dry - he finished out his coaching that fall at Akron before coming to Portland to get ready for the next season.
While clearly we have a history of identifying targets quickly, I see no reason to move quickly because a new face isn't going to change the outcome of this season. It is all about 2024 and beyond.
The problem with throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks is that even if it sticks, it's still shit.
Gio can make this easier on everyone and just resign or "agree to part ways". He's a good man and it's not all his fault, but it's time to move on... for the sake of sanity, at least.
Even so, Timbers are a tangled mess with a timid and dull FO. We have random journeyman players who phone it in... vets who should've retired by now like Mabs, D. Chara who is clearly an ineffectual captain, and Blanco who should pay back his wages... although he wasn't the fool that signed a player who failed two medicals for $1.6M per year. We have a new GM who appears to be a milquetoast version of Wilkinson... a CEO with no prior soccer or sports admin experience... and a checked-out spoiled brat owner who plays a poor-rich mans version of moneyball, badly. This is what it is. Yes, it's this bad. Outcomes (intentions are meaningless) and an obvious lack of progress speaks for itself. Pep or Jurgen couldn't do much with this lot.
Combine this with off-pitch scandals and how it took the spirit out of supporters, and in a weird league where the older clubs grow weaker and less relevant, instead of stronger, and what you have is sudden onset malaise that can't be fixed by simply hiring a new coach.
And it certainly can't be fixed by signing players from relegated Dutch teams or young reclamation projects from unheard of Portuguese teams, all due respect to them. Really, until the Timbers find some stability and a system for developing young players, it's irresponsible in the extreme to sign those possibly in the ascendancy. We're damaging careers before they start, in the desperate search for our Almiron.
In other words, a complete rebuild and rethink of the project is necessary. New ownership that will bring investment with energy, vision, and inclusive community partnership that doesn't pick stupid fights with fans. It means cleaning house, to rid ourselves of this inertia that, seemingly overnight, has broken the club (although the cracks have been there for awhile).
But this is exactly why I expect Gio to stay, if he doesn't move on himself. The club has lost its ambition and compass. Instead, it's just a group of people doing soccer gig work or collecting salary. They're a team in name only.
"New ownership that will bring investment with energy, vision, and inclusive community partnership that doesn't pick stupid fights with fans."
Any dream for a Timbers future direction that includes a change in ownership is DOA. MP is showing no signs of wanting to sell, so he's who we're gonna have to deal with for the foreseeable future.
"We have a new GM who appears to be a milquetoast version of Wilkinson... a CEO with no prior soccer or sports admin experience"
And who, at the time he was hired as the full time GM, was lauded by many across MLS as a good GM and a quality hire for the Timbers. He's done some good stuff in his time here so far and I'm not going to judge him just yet, because he has a HUGE mess to clean up that GW left behind. That job has started, but it'll be 1-2 more windows before this is truly "Ned's team".
"D. Chara who is clearly an ineffectual captain"
What do you mean by that? How is a captain "effective"? Chara is still a solid player and is in no way one of the main problems this squad has.
"We're damaging careers before they start, in the desperate search for our Almiron."
Hyperbole much? I mean, mediocre teams sign good players in an attempt to be less mediocre all the time. Portland is not where careers go to die, at all.
"and a checked-out spoiled brat owner who plays a poor-rich mans version of moneyball, badly."
I'm no MP supporter, and I agree with your adjectival description of him, but...what?
Regarding Chara being captain. I think he became captain since he's been here the longest. Chara is a mellow guy and don't see him getting on his teammates like a Johnson, Ridgy or Jewsbury. Lead by example guy? Absolutely. But not a guy that's going to bark at his teammates when needed.
Owner: I know. I just don't think that much will change for the better until he goes. Long term the clubs' growth will be stunted.
GM: He does have a big mess to clean up but it's not entirely Wilkinson's mess, either. Ned was assistant GM to GW. Are to to believe that he had no input or influence on decisions? And so far, the results of his moves are underwhelming. I agree that he should have more time, but how much? The next window and season are crucial.
Chara: Great player for us. RoH easily. Great person and family man. Shitty captain. Sorry, but I think it's true.
Hyperbole re: young careers? No. It's a growing problem that needs correction and then clear direction. I suspect it's a big reason, aside from our downward trajectory, why Gio was ultimately let go. There have been a few exceptions, but they're all playing somewhere else now after we gave up on them.
MP: I think it made perfect sense. Maybe I got a bit wordsmith on it. I tend to do that.
The teams performance. Hanging heads. Poor body language. No passion. Completely phoning in games. All are unacceptable, and like it or not, reflect the leadership of this team. He might be a nice father figure in the locker room, but this team clearly lacks effective leadership.
This is not the same as suggesting that Chara sucks at everything, and should be lined up against the wall. He's a legendary player here. Just not a good captain.
1. Gio isn’t going to resign unless MP buys him out of his contract.
2. MP isn’t going to buy Gio out of his contract for the same reason that MP is not going to fire Gio, MP is too cheap/short on cash to pay out on Gio’s contract.
3. Why would Mabs, Blanco or D. Chara (!?!) retire when they are still under contract and know that MP isn’t going to amnesty one of them because he’d have to pay out under their contracts.
4. It will be interesting whether MP has more willingness or ability to spend $ once the Thorns are sold.
Wow. I'm surprised. It's always kind of a sad day when a manager is sacked. Gio seems like a great person, and did some good things here. But it's time to move on. I wish him well.
I can’t remember the last time I didn’t watch the second half of a Timbers game, but that first half at Houston was too bad for me to want to continue watching. I was at the Thorns game so I had to catch the Timbers really late.
I had hoped that the 2 1/2 week break would have allowed the Timbers to play their choice 11 minus D. Chara. Instead, the team was missing most of the key players in the center of the field … McGraw, D. Chara, Moreno (who looked good in the center against Monterrey), and Mora (who must still not be match fit for 90 minutes. He should be starting if he’s fully healthy.
Gio had nearly a month - with no distractions, no games, nothing in the way - to prepare his team for this match and get the new players integrated with the squad. Gio knew that D Chara would be out for this match. The injuries/illness in the last week obviously weren't part of the plan, but Gio's job is to mitigate those things as best he can. Gio did not do anything of the sort tonight. Also: Houston had to play in the heat too.
Gio should not be on the flight home.
This was inexcusably poor in a season that has seen its fair share of garden-variety poor. How much more of this is necessary to prove that Gio is done here?
by my count it's 3 seasons of garden variety poor
Absolutely. I was just using recency bias to not put my head through the wall in frustration hahaha.
Well, he's gone now!!!
He's gone now.
To say this season has been an absolute shitshow would actually be insulting to shitshows. So what the fuck DO we call this?
Gioball.
Isnt that (gioball) something you get from the adult store on 82nd 😜 I mean with the shows we are putting out you need to be 18 to watch
Is trainwreck strong enough? Maybe a circus? I'm not sure there is an apt enough ajective, noun, verb - wahtever - to describe this situation.
I mean there were a bunch of clowns out there tonight.
wah-wah-wahtever just might do it!
Dear God I hope gio is gone before our next "dp" and "tam" players are signed in the off-season. Let a new coach choose who he wants to bring in to help the team. Don't hinder the coach by saying "we just signed all these new guys"
There's a championship team in Portland that defines toughness and heart — the Thorns. Playing first-place North Carolina at home, they go down a player and goal in about the 19th minute. Manage to tie it up before half and then win 2-1 on Sophie Smith's goal 20 seconds after entering the match. It's the first time in NWSL history that a team has had a first-half red card and won.
Maybe Gio and Timbers should watch a replay and learn a few things.
I hope the Thorns outdraw the Timbers for spectators at home the rest of the season(s).
They did well on a very smoky night — 22,107, fourth largest home crowd ever.
As an Englishman we have this term. The timbers are like a diaper shit at the back and piss up front.😂🤣😂
Sounds like a regular Nelson Semedo game 👀
Hey I'm with you on that one. He wouldn't be out of place on the timbers back line. At fault for more than one goal yesterday. I'm a sucker for punishment being a Wolves and a Timbers fan.
Welp my brother is an everton fan. It could be worse.
As a Leeds fan... don't get me started.
Everton/Timbers fan here... why do i choose suffering?!
We play them next week
I know. He's... pessimistic to say the least.
He's still trying to convince me maupay is decent. I reckon he can make it but... not now
#GioOutGioOutGioOut.
36% possession.
Zero (0) shots on target.
#GioOut
Especially where the other team has 3 goals in the first 15 minutes, that possession number is really damning.
These are the stats I keep coming back to. 36% possession against a mod-table team. That *has* to come down to coaching and system, right?
“As the person in charge, it starts with me,” Savarese said. “But I think this time the players can’t escape from the reality that nobody put out a full performance.”
It starts with me but it's everyone else's fault too.........wut?
“It was a hard match,” said midfielder Cristhian Paredes. “We need to be realistic. We played a horrible game tonight. We just need to look forward and focus on the next match.”
I hate how the answer is alway.......well ........on to the next one. Like they could care less.
Well Gio’s not wrong. He is by far the most culpable, but the players were beyond abysmal and deserve plenty of severe criticism.
Gio’s not at all wrong, none of the players looked like they wanted to be there and put in very low effort. I don’t think Gio set them up very well tactically, but Gio didn’t tell them to go out there and not try. However, it shows there’s a serious rift between the coaching staff and the players. The team doesn’t work well with Gio for the most part and it’s time for him to go
maybe that just can't stand playing for gio anymore and just want him gone.....
No. They are professionals earning a salary. You can be unhappy all you want. But effort is a minimum requirement of keeping ones job no matter who the boss is.
Honestly, I'd rather have them say "we need to look forward" than "we're gonna wallow about this one for a long time". The schedule doesn't care what the last game looked like, there's always a next game coming up quickly.
The players have no choice but to forget this result and try not to repeat that level of performance next week, and that starts with putting this game to bed, mentally, on the flight home from Texas.
Focus instead on the prestigious Cascadia Cup!
Hey, a trophy's a trophy, and winning it two years in a row would be fun. I think a win on Saturday locks that down.
I'll take it
I prefer them to take accountability after two seasons of shit, with many games of them just giving up. It's getting boarder line treasonous against the fans.
What does "take accountability" look like for you in this case? What would you have them say?
I mean, athletes in any sport aren't exactly in the habit of saying "I suck at my job", so I'm not sure why we would expect any different here. There's not gonna be a GoT-style walk of shame once they get off the plane; they're going to get back to work today and hopefully start to erase the mistakes they made yesterday.
I want them to play better. I could not care less what they say about their play in between the times that they play, because none of that stuff matters.
I want them holding a banner apologizing to the fans for playing like shit, and they will do better. At this point they are acting like spoiled children who don't care how their piss poor performance bothers the fans. It seems like they are playing for a check and not for the badge. I want mature players. Not spoiled children with no accountability.
That banner is probably still in storage after 2012, so at least they won't have to make a new one...
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2F0bZHHWu_CpV3fA-WP6l6TAMM7X3-7Y5OdjCfQZB_kt0.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D103e782bd6289470d7eb31e21b5261ee7579f46a
"At this point they are acting like spoiled children who don't care how their piss poor performance bothers the fans."
I mean, that's a take? I guess? I haven't seen anything from any Timbers player that says "spoiled child". I've seen a lot of bad performances, for sure, but it's not like the Timbers are sulking and throwing tantrums; they're just a bad team playing badly.
But honestly, for me, they don't owe me an apology. I want them to be better, I'm mad that they're not better, but that's sports; sometimes the team you love is just shitty. They're not doing it on purpose; they're just not a talented group of players, and this is what we get when that happens. They don't need to apologize; they need to get better.
You could come to the meet and greet Tuesday, let em know what's real!
Gio and Grabavoy will be there too
It would be nice if we could go to the bottom of the table and then get three legendary players to help us out. Oh, and a coach, too.
Relegate Timbers, Galaxy and Colorado to USL and give top USL teams a chance to shine.
The Timbers definitely looked like USL quality last night. I felt bad for Evander who looked like he didn't know who to pass to because it wouldn't end well.
I think Evander was a bad signing though, he thinks he's better than everyone, looses the ball(trying to meg someone) then usually fouls someone. That goal where Bravo caused a PK was due to Evander trying to beat two guys and losing it around the 18.
Imagine looking at this roster and thinking Evander is a problem. C'mon.
"he thinks he's better than everyone"
(looks at rest of Timbers roster)
Turns out he kinda is!
"That goal where Bravo caused a PK was due to Evander trying to beat two guys"
Nope. That PK was caused by Bravo stepping on a guy's heel. It wasn't intentional, it wasn't even something Bravo knew happened until it did. It was just one of those fluke things that wasn't really anyone's fault.
The Timbers have a whooooooooole lot of problems. Evander absolutely isn't one of them.
I liked him at first, now I don't. I don't like people who are pompous and that's how he plays. And it shows in his striking out at the opposition(one red and how many yellows?) And his trying to nutmeg everyone. Nope, not a fan of him. Maybe he'll get better but I'm doubtful.
I disagree - Evander is a serious problem because he provides little to no leadership on the field and has revealed himself to be VERY immature. He’s just an additional drag on a team that doesn’t any more.
He's been a Timber for seven months. Two of those months he was injured. A good part of one of those months was a Leagues Cup break in which no games were played. How much leadership do you honestly expect a guy who's new to the country and new to the league to provide in four months of activity?
"has revealed himself to be VERY immature."
Examples? Are you referring to the red card in June? If so, I'll grant that was bad/dumb, but has he repeated that behavior since? Or even come close? I would say he hasn't, which means...he's learning (his other red card was for a foul, and he hasn't really shown a lot of petulance towards other players since). That's the mark of a maturing player.
I have high expectations for Evander, and he's mostly fulfilled them up to this point; the problem is he's surrounded by terrible players who play no discernible system whatsoever, so it's hard to see what Evander brings to the table, even when he's bringing it.
Well... AppleTV is paid for... at least Miami and Messi will be fun to watch between now and next season...
Gio is gone. Just saw this on a Timbers email.
https://www.timbers.com/news/portland-timbers-part-ways-with-head-coach-giovanni-savarese
Beat me to it, damn!
I know we’ve all been asking for this but dang it’s kinda sad now that it’s a reality. I love the guy as a person and will look back at his time at Portland extremely fondly. I’m gonna miss him, he was always a class act and a really positive personality. Up until recently, it seems like he fostered a really great locker room environment. Brought us to two MLS cups and won the MLS is Back trophy, which I think is a legitimate accomplishment. However, it was definitely time to move on. The team is fractured and it’s going to take a good while for it to heal. Good luck to him, I hope he finds a good job elsewhere
Epic assist at PTFC for Peace and inspired some of the best PTFC reaction gifs ever. Total legend!
I'm not sad at all. This is the first step to a better Timbers.
Wish him nothing but the best. Never cared for him as a coach, but he seems like a decent human and I hope he finds success elsewhere.
If only I had more than one like to give
I'm curious to hear the Gio apologists' explanations as to why he shouldn't be kicking rocks at this point. Inquiring minds want to know.
I am now a former Gio apologist. He's clearly lost the team.
Not a Gio apologist (I am annoyed that we extended him last year when things were already starting to turn away from "quality", the club completely tied their own hands financially with that decision), but all the apologists have at this point is "we have old men in critical positions, new guys who are not acclimating well" and are playing out the string until we can sign some guys to make a difference next year. I said in Feb I thought this was going to be a long season and another playoff miss. We were too old, too injured and just didn't have horses in places that mattered. Evander has been hot and cold and quite honestly the team's play has directly followed his cycle.
I thought Gio had lost the team at SKC in May based on their body language. I was shocked to see better play in Leagues Cup which was obviously fool's gold after last night's abhorrent display.
The only reason to keep Gio at this point is that MP/Management don't want to take the financial loss of paying him off.
One thing I keep hearing from people is the injury excuse. I saw some people say (not here) that we were better in leagues Cup because we finally had a healthy team, which made no sense to me. We played Monterrey without Evander and looked miles better than previously. We had a two month stretch where we had a nearly first choice starting eleven and we lost to Chicago and Minnesota (missing Reynoso and Lod) at home. We had a nearly first choice lineup when we went to SKC and got destroyed. Injuries have not played that much of a part this year, and I think the leagues cup games prove that. Besides Mora, we had pretty much the same players available as we had previously, and we looked a whole lot better.
Near the beginning of the year, injuries was a valid excuse. We were playing Diego Gutierrez as a central midfielder. But it isn’t anymore
Gio's salary is about 300K/year, through 2025 (with a team option for 2026). Hank Paulson's net worth is north of $700 million.
I'm pretty sure the org can survive a buyout of 900K.
Apologies for being pedantic, but Hank's net worth is not sitting in a Timbers bank account.
The Timbers operating capital is a small fraction of Hank's net worth and completely independent of Hank's net worth, nor even the team's new worth (which is nearly the same as Hank's personal worth itself). All that net worth does for you is gives you things to sell for cash if you need it, hopefully investments that are making money also and collateral for loans. It doesn't exist to put money into your investments that you will never get back.
At its very simplest, the reason to form a business as a legal entity is to protect your personal assets. You expect the business to be self sustaining. If you are asking the owner to constantly invest their personal capital you have a problem. There are cases where this happens that are acceptable (such as something that increases the value of your business by the same amount, or more - say investing $1m that results in 100 new seats that sell for $1000 each. 10 year ROI and after that you are making money from it, immediately increases value of franchise.
Paying a coach to go away from your personal funds is not that. You are simply choosing to hand $1m to someone to go away. It might be different if Gio was actively sabotaging the organization, saying bad things about Hank and MP (in which case he would just get fired, with cause, and cost them nothing) or was doing that behind the scenes ... but they like him and are not going to pay $1m to make him go away and another $1m to bring in someone different. I can almost promise you that is the thinking. Had they not extended him last year, I am just as certain that they would be letting him go and searching for a new coach right now.
Now, maybe they could take up a collection at games and have the 24k fans each chip in $40 each to fund the goodbye fund, but in addition to the lack of desire to get rid of him, one person in management who knows the game but almost surely doesn't feel empowered to flush $1m of the team's money (Ned) and another (Heather) who doesn't know soccer well enough to judge with an absentee owner ... who really gets to make the call anyway? And if you are Ned or Heather do you say "lets spend $1m of the team's money for a new coach" and risk angering the absentee owner? Nah.
Oh, I understand that it isn't that easy. But I also understand that
"You are simply choosing to hand $1m to someone to go away."
is well within the reach of the Paulson family, without batting an eye, should they have the desire to do it. The funds to dismiss an underperforming employee don't come from gate receipts or merch; that comes from injections of cash from ownership. In cases of ownership groups, it's a cash call; in cases where single entities own teams, it comes from their pocket.
"If you are asking the owner to constantly invest their personal capital you have a problem."
There's nothing "constant" about it, that's my point. This is an extraordinary circumstance. It's not like they fire coaches on long term contracts every season. All I'm saying is that Gio could be gone tomorrow and, financially, the Timbers and the Paulson family wouldn't even remotely feel the hit.
"It doesn't exist to put money into your investments that you will never get back."
Sports teams, in general, aren't owned for day-to-day profits. They're owned for the day that they're sold, when they're sold for 10-20x what they were bought for.
"Now, maybe they could take up a collection at games and have the 24k fans each chip in $40 each to fund the goodbye fund,"
hahahahahahaha hell no am I ever going to "donate" money to a rich sports team owner for any purpose related to team operations. I already give them ticket money.
"but they like him and are not going to pay $1m to make him go away and another $1m to bring in someone different."
This is 100% the crux of it, not the finances of it all. If they wanted to, they would and could find the $2M. They just don't want to.
"hahahahahahaha hell no am I ever going to "donate" money to a rich sports team owner for any purpose related to team operations. I already give them ticket money."
I hate to tell you, but the Paulsons right now are saying "hahahahaha, hell no am I ever going to sink $1m of my own money just to make a coach go away".
That's probably true; your pushback to me, though, was that they probably *couldn't*, business-wise, and all I'm saying is that they *wouldn't*.
Hard to think he lost the locker room after the tourney showing. Possible I guess. I feel like locker room/motivation was Gio’s best quality.
Anyway, he had more success here than our sentiment may suggest. Here’s hoping Gio lands on his feet and we bring in someone with a vision for attractive play.
I don’t know, things don’t just turn like that overnight. I agree his locker room environment was absolutely his best quality, and not something I thought would be a problem this year. I think Leagues Cup just provided some motivation for the players in one way or another, plus we were playing at home and we usually don’t completely combust as a team at home. The road games are more telling, the performance at Houston wasn’t a one off, it’s happened way too many times. It does not feel like the majority of players want to play for him anymore. And with this Moreno situation, it’s only amplified that. Being this bad makes players not want to play for the coach. I’m hoping we see Moreno play a bit better under a different coach, I’d love to see him back to his last season form
I just think that things have gone stale. Managers and players dont normally hang around in a job more then 3 years. Think Gio have just out stayed his term, I hope that a new broom will sweep clean the webs and put a spring in the step of some of the players that have a couple of years left. Get rid of the ones on the slide past 32, get Gio out and a new guy in with new ideas and let him build for the rest of this season and then start off with a bang next. This season is a blowout but lets see if we can plant seeds for next season. As a Wolves and Timbers fan and being a Brit I follow the Eric Idle words of "Always look on the bright side of life"
Unless they've been talking to someone for a month or two behind the scenes, any coach that comes in today is going to be an interim coach, I think. There's only 10 games left in the season, and the roster right now is what it is. I don't think bringing in a hopefully long-term coach right now is the best idea; just give Ridgewell or Llamosa the job for the rest of this season and spend that time courting and signing a new coach for the long term, starting in November.
Agree. They would take a long time to hire someone.
Gio happened to be looking at the time Porter quit, was a very successful NASL coach because their salary system was different and they simply had the deepest pockets and could buy the best talent in the league.
We fired John Spencer in the summer, July if memory serves, and GW coached the rest of the season while casting off players and starting to build for the next year. Ricketts came in almost immediately (early August) which was apparently a Porter demand - and we didn't even announce Porter until a while later, when the ink was dry - he finished out his coaching that fall at Akron before coming to Portland to get ready for the next season.
While clearly we have a history of identifying targets quickly, I see no reason to move quickly because a new face isn't going to change the outcome of this season. It is all about 2024 and beyond.
The problem with throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks is that even if it sticks, it's still shit.
Gio can make this easier on everyone and just resign or "agree to part ways". He's a good man and it's not all his fault, but it's time to move on... for the sake of sanity, at least.
Even so, Timbers are a tangled mess with a timid and dull FO. We have random journeyman players who phone it in... vets who should've retired by now like Mabs, D. Chara who is clearly an ineffectual captain, and Blanco who should pay back his wages... although he wasn't the fool that signed a player who failed two medicals for $1.6M per year. We have a new GM who appears to be a milquetoast version of Wilkinson... a CEO with no prior soccer or sports admin experience... and a checked-out spoiled brat owner who plays a poor-rich mans version of moneyball, badly. This is what it is. Yes, it's this bad. Outcomes (intentions are meaningless) and an obvious lack of progress speaks for itself. Pep or Jurgen couldn't do much with this lot.
Combine this with off-pitch scandals and how it took the spirit out of supporters, and in a weird league where the older clubs grow weaker and less relevant, instead of stronger, and what you have is sudden onset malaise that can't be fixed by simply hiring a new coach.
And it certainly can't be fixed by signing players from relegated Dutch teams or young reclamation projects from unheard of Portuguese teams, all due respect to them. Really, until the Timbers find some stability and a system for developing young players, it's irresponsible in the extreme to sign those possibly in the ascendancy. We're damaging careers before they start, in the desperate search for our Almiron.
In other words, a complete rebuild and rethink of the project is necessary. New ownership that will bring investment with energy, vision, and inclusive community partnership that doesn't pick stupid fights with fans. It means cleaning house, to rid ourselves of this inertia that, seemingly overnight, has broken the club (although the cracks have been there for awhile).
But this is exactly why I expect Gio to stay, if he doesn't move on himself. The club has lost its ambition and compass. Instead, it's just a group of people doing soccer gig work or collecting salary. They're a team in name only.
"New ownership that will bring investment with energy, vision, and inclusive community partnership that doesn't pick stupid fights with fans."
Any dream for a Timbers future direction that includes a change in ownership is DOA. MP is showing no signs of wanting to sell, so he's who we're gonna have to deal with for the foreseeable future.
"We have a new GM who appears to be a milquetoast version of Wilkinson... a CEO with no prior soccer or sports admin experience"
And who, at the time he was hired as the full time GM, was lauded by many across MLS as a good GM and a quality hire for the Timbers. He's done some good stuff in his time here so far and I'm not going to judge him just yet, because he has a HUGE mess to clean up that GW left behind. That job has started, but it'll be 1-2 more windows before this is truly "Ned's team".
"D. Chara who is clearly an ineffectual captain"
What do you mean by that? How is a captain "effective"? Chara is still a solid player and is in no way one of the main problems this squad has.
"We're damaging careers before they start, in the desperate search for our Almiron."
Hyperbole much? I mean, mediocre teams sign good players in an attempt to be less mediocre all the time. Portland is not where careers go to die, at all.
"and a checked-out spoiled brat owner who plays a poor-rich mans version of moneyball, badly."
I'm no MP supporter, and I agree with your adjectival description of him, but...what?
Regarding Chara being captain. I think he became captain since he's been here the longest. Chara is a mellow guy and don't see him getting on his teammates like a Johnson, Ridgy or Jewsbury. Lead by example guy? Absolutely. But not a guy that's going to bark at his teammates when needed.
Owner: I know. I just don't think that much will change for the better until he goes. Long term the clubs' growth will be stunted.
GM: He does have a big mess to clean up but it's not entirely Wilkinson's mess, either. Ned was assistant GM to GW. Are to to believe that he had no input or influence on decisions? And so far, the results of his moves are underwhelming. I agree that he should have more time, but how much? The next window and season are crucial.
Chara: Great player for us. RoH easily. Great person and family man. Shitty captain. Sorry, but I think it's true.
Hyperbole re: young careers? No. It's a growing problem that needs correction and then clear direction. I suspect it's a big reason, aside from our downward trajectory, why Gio was ultimately let go. There have been a few exceptions, but they're all playing somewhere else now after we gave up on them.
MP: I think it made perfect sense. Maybe I got a bit wordsmith on it. I tend to do that.
Cheers!
I guess I just don't see what makes Chara a "shitty captain". Can you explain what you mean by that?
The teams performance. Hanging heads. Poor body language. No passion. Completely phoning in games. All are unacceptable, and like it or not, reflect the leadership of this team. He might be a nice father figure in the locker room, but this team clearly lacks effective leadership.
This is not the same as suggesting that Chara sucks at everything, and should be lined up against the wall. He's a legendary player here. Just not a good captain.
1. Gio isn’t going to resign unless MP buys him out of his contract.
2. MP isn’t going to buy Gio out of his contract for the same reason that MP is not going to fire Gio, MP is too cheap/short on cash to pay out on Gio’s contract.
3. Why would Mabs, Blanco or D. Chara (!?!) retire when they are still under contract and know that MP isn’t going to amnesty one of them because he’d have to pay out under their contracts.
4. It will be interesting whether MP has more willingness or ability to spend $ once the Thorns are sold.
Update: Clearly, my calling MP too cheap to fire Gio was the final straw that pushed MO to fire Gio.
Wow. I'm surprised. It's always kind of a sad day when a manager is sacked. Gio seems like a great person, and did some good things here. But it's time to move on. I wish him well.
I can’t remember the last time I didn’t watch the second half of a Timbers game, but that first half at Houston was too bad for me to want to continue watching. I was at the Thorns game so I had to catch the Timbers really late.
I had hoped that the 2 1/2 week break would have allowed the Timbers to play their choice 11 minus D. Chara. Instead, the team was missing most of the key players in the center of the field … McGraw, D. Chara, Moreno (who looked good in the center against Monterrey), and Mora (who must still not be match fit for 90 minutes. He should be starting if he’s fully healthy.