After last night's match, I am extricating myself from the dead horse flogging, having done enough of it myself.
This is a disspirited team that has all but given up on the season.
The Prez of Soccer/GM and the HC aren't up to the job.
Ownership hasn't yet shown us that they're willing to make any bold moves.
This isn't going to change until ownership removes the Prez of Soccer/GM and we have a proper global search for the next HC.
If ownership does not step forward soon, and it allows this slide to continue without making the beginnings of obviously needed changes, then they won't continue to have my money in 2025.
"OK, we're gonna go out there and build a 2-0 lead, and then we're gonna let Sanchez score a cheap hat trick to lose 3-2.
"Now, Shelby's good and she'll keep us in the game long past when we deserve to be, so here's what we need to do...
"Coffey, Bruun, I want both of you to commit fouls in the box. Since you have reputations and international careers to protect, you can make em look questionable if you have to.
"Also, I don't want any defenders or mids covering the far post on their corners. Nobody! You got that? I want all of you to leave that entirely to Spaanstra.
"Finally, we're gonna make some substitutions that make absolutely no sense. Rob has already agreed to let us pin that on him. Thanks, Ken!"
The pedigree of this club really demands better than this. The way last year finished out where the Thorns controlled their own destiny of winning everything and walked away with nothing was for me the most disappointing season ever. It's been comically bad ever since. Up to ownership now to fix a broken club. I really hope they do and we see real changes made. Until then I have to find enjoyment of watching other clubs play the beautiful game properly.
Right now I'd settle for a team with some fight left in it at least and work towards getting better for next season. In 2017 the Thorns were no way better than the Courage but they had a lot of heart and fought like hell to get that star. It wasn't pretty but they showed real determination. Can we at least get some fight out of this team for now?
I never heard the end of that "fought like hell" (i.e. beat the living shit out of The Damned) Final from neutral friends. I was perfectly okay with it because Riley (spit!) and Marco Vega had thugged us out of the semi the year before.
Yeah, the narrative you always hear is that the Thorns thugged up that 2017 match to win it - which is correct. People are simply unaware that Riley's Courage had thugged up the Thorns at least as badly to win the semifinal in 2016, and the Thorns' play in 2017 was 100% a response to that.
It made for a very ugly game and I get why Carolina fans (most of whom had no connection with 2016 when The Damned were Western New York) were and are still pretty sore.
But what goes around comes around, and that semi built up a big chip on Portland shoulders.
Our "vaudevillian cane" blogger Andre Carlisle sums up the way I feel about this whole magilla:
"This is real monkey’s paw shit for me lol. I’ve been begging for a women’s club world cup for literally years. I truly believe it would overtake the Champions League as the most prestigious domestic tournament in soccer. It’s also something that can’t be replicated in broso because of the disproportionate concentration of resources in Europe. In women’s soccer the NWSL is a deeply competitive and talent-rich league, Liga MX Femenil is continuing to grow and its top teams are deeply talented as well.
I say all that and then here comes Jeff (Kassouf, in a tweet Carlisle references) reminding me that this competition could allow the NWSL to be represented by Rob Gale’s Strugglin’ Ass Portland Thorns or Landon Donovan’s San Diego Wavé. What did I do to deserve this."
Such a depressing season. Watching Sophia's goal, she looked tired - no energy, no enthusiasm. Worried that our best players will be planning their exit if something doesn't change and fast.
I know Fists of Fleury ain't great, but... the skill level on these goals! Yes, it helps to have more time and space to operate, but all those volleys off crosses or balls in over the top, and headers off of corners, what I wouldn't give for some of that here!
I’d love for them to bring Parsons back as GM if he’s come to the conclusion that he won’t get a good head coaching gig. Maybe bring in Tony Gustavsson as the head coach and go from there.
As far as I know, Sinclair has never scored against the Thorns. Stability kinda disqualifies you from this particular achievement. (I don't know that she's scored against all the newer teams anyway.)
So what the hell happened? What did San Diego do (or Portland fail to do) that turned this around? Was it the Gale subs? Tactical breakdown (“defensive derp” is kind of the Thorns meme…)? Sounds like bad luck was involved…TWO penalties? Was this on the CR?
I guess I’m tempted to just lump this with the rest of the dross. But…yes?
I cited Thornado's comment previously but it's a good one, they basically were just playing formless scrimmage out there, no organization or plan to be seen, everyone running around freelancing and seeing what they could improvise. The Thorns started with enough talent on the field and SD looked disorganized enough themselves that they capitalized on some good luck, but then subs happened, SD got themselves together, and the Thorns stopped catching lucky breaks on both sides of the ball but especially defending the box. I think the Thorns spent literally every minute between Moultrie's goal (~56') and stoppage time in their own half, on the defensive, and doing so poorly, the entire game was a scrambled blob from the team.
I'd have to rewatch (and I won't) to be more certain, but Fleming looked to have a very bad night, multiple bad passes, and Moultrie and D'Aquila continued the form we've seen most of the season. Spaanstra and Hirsch were pretty toothless, Obaze had some good stops but also poor passes out that resulted in turnovers and at one point Mueller was vocally and visibly angry at her poor marking in the box, rightfully so. Kling had some good effort in her but lacks the speed, agility, or stamina to make much a difference and got skinned on defense a couple times. Turner had a nice finish but didn't seem to have the pace to replace Smith or Weaver or to make up for Moultrie and D'Aquila. Overall, not great!
I’ve been consistently frustrated with the turnovers. They’re brutal, rec-league-level poor play, and usually not forced by opposing pressure. They reek to me of poor training. As with so much else here, it looks like coaching.
We got lucky on the first goal as a weak cross along the ground that was dummied over to Sophia that should have been easily handled by a defender, saw the defender fall over allowing the ball to roll to smith who was able to get the ball near post. Good finish still from Smith.
Second goal saw us take a quick throw in sending Moultrie down the wing who is able to cut in and find Turner who was able to put it away.
Those were basically our only 2 real chances all game and we finished them.
Rest of the game was defending, poor passes to no one and the opposition, the usual stuff. We did less trying to escape pressure to our keeper since it wasn't Macca in goal but no one knew where anyone else was it was a mess.
First PK poor passing but this time in front of goal instead of midfield, to recover Sam does her tackle near the 18 box line. Coffey adamant she committed it outside the box ref said inside. No VAR and no real camera angle shared that was conclusive.
2nd goal 2 minutes later Cross from the goal line to the far post their player gets up and smashed the header off the grass and into the goal.
3rd goal 2nd PK Sauerbrunn judged to committed a handball by the ref. Off the arm and out for a corner. With VAR this one likely comes back. Arm was downard and maybe 5-10 degrees away from the torso. Referee calls it a handball.
The first half was mostly San Diego dominance but they were not able to get any of their chances to go in. Second half was more of the same but they were able to convert just enough to win. Hogan made a few saves but showed how bad she is at distribution again, in comparison.
Smith came out at the half, after game Gale said she was on a minutes restriction and medical had him remove her. We had Kling playing a LB most of the game and being effective in the wings has been lost to her.
Given that we're barely hanging onto 7th place, that Soph and Hina are out, and that Gale and KK either need to commit to the future or hit the bricks, here's what I'd like to see tonight and from here on out as often as possible:
GK: Arnold
D: Reyes, Obaze, Bruun, Muller (subs Payne and Hubly)
M: Coffey, Fleming, Moultrie (subs Hirst and Sheva)
F: Spaanstra, Linnehan, Turner (subs Weaver and D'Aquila)
It's time to see what the younger players can do and if they can do it together.
It's time to see if Fleming and Moultrie can find a way to coexist in a mutually-beneficial way.
And it's time to take some minutes off of anchors like Bruun and Coffey, and make sure Weaver remains healthy.
Yeah, "face" sounds like it could potentially be better than a concussion, for recovery purposes....but yeah, if it's an orbital or something, could be the end of her season.
This must be the universe trying to ensure we miss playoffs and Gale/KK and crew are fired...
My guess when she went off was concussion + facial fracture; either orbit or cheekbone or both. The right side of her face and right eye puffed up immediately and severely.
I would not be surprised to see her out for some time and even then playing in one of those Phantom of the Opera face shields when she does return.
One of the consolations of the shitty state of the Thorns would be that at least the team could shut down Hina for last 5 games and let her rest and fully heal. Ideally, also bubble-wrap everyone else of value (Smith, Weaver, etc) on limited minutes, and let the season mercifully play out while our nostalgic and/or Canadian fan bretheren appreciate the last five full games from Sinclair.
In any case, it is imperative that under no circumstances does Linnehan (or any other promising young player who could really help this team in 2025 and beyond) get any minutes or otherwise get the chance to develop in any way. /s
Is she shutting herself down? Couldn't blame her if she is. In fact, with Hina's SEI (presumably) and the Thorns sinking like a rock, it would be the right move, IMO.
The only metric the WW piece uses to compare Arnold and Hogan is save %, which effectively ignores the defenders in front. It’s not worthless, but it lacks context.
If you look at Arnold’s “post-shot xG minus goals-against per 90 minutes” it’s -0.11, meaning that her shot-stopping during the run of play is slightly worse that her xG against predicts. It puts her in the 35th percentile for NWSL keepers.
Hogan? -0.08, 40th percentile.
That’s pretty much “within the error of the instrument”.
And Arnold IS better with the ball. So.
I think the whole reason they spilt so much ink on this is the way it was touted as a “big signing”. It never was, and Arnold is what she was at West Ham; a fairly average-to-just-slightly-below-average keeper.
But I also agree; she’s not really the big problem. So…
Who's to say at this juncture? Being in goal on a dysfunctional team is a tough environment in which to judge the new player's qualities and deficits.
OTOH a starter contest between Arnold and Hogan could potentially benefit both, getting them to focus on areas of weakness. They do present different styles and physical abilities. Door #3 is the whither Bix? one.
I now wonder if Bixby was pregnant during the AC fiasco. That said, my assumption is Arnold is more highly regarded and it’s a battle between her/Hogan for the backup postion.
In reality, my hope is they let go or redeploy KK soon and end up with a real GM before the end of the year so they can assess / fire Gale.
League inadvertently rescues (many of) us from potentially viewing next Monday's(?) match by showing it only on CBS Sports Network. Plenty of time meanwhile to ponder the Sept 28 Wave rematch and who might be coaching it.
After last night's match, I am extricating myself from the dead horse flogging, having done enough of it myself.
This is a disspirited team that has all but given up on the season.
The Prez of Soccer/GM and the HC aren't up to the job.
Ownership hasn't yet shown us that they're willing to make any bold moves.
This isn't going to change until ownership removes the Prez of Soccer/GM and we have a proper global search for the next HC.
If ownership does not step forward soon, and it allows this slide to continue without making the beginnings of obviously needed changes, then they won't continue to have my money in 2025.
That photo of Kling talking to the troops...
"OK, we're gonna go out there and build a 2-0 lead, and then we're gonna let Sanchez score a cheap hat trick to lose 3-2.
"Now, Shelby's good and she'll keep us in the game long past when we deserve to be, so here's what we need to do...
"Coffey, Bruun, I want both of you to commit fouls in the box. Since you have reputations and international careers to protect, you can make em look questionable if you have to.
"Also, I don't want any defenders or mids covering the far post on their corners. Nobody! You got that? I want all of you to leave that entirely to Spaanstra.
"Finally, we're gonna make some substitutions that make absolutely no sense. Rob has already agreed to let us pin that on him. Thanks, Ken!"
The pedigree of this club really demands better than this. The way last year finished out where the Thorns controlled their own destiny of winning everything and walked away with nothing was for me the most disappointing season ever. It's been comically bad ever since. Up to ownership now to fix a broken club. I really hope they do and we see real changes made. Until then I have to find enjoyment of watching other clubs play the beautiful game properly.
I've always found enjoyment watching other clubs, especially those that play the well-organized possession-oriented style that I enjoy most.
I have wished the Thorns played more possession-oriented even at their best and most consistent.
Right now I'd settle for a team with some fight left in it at least and work towards getting better for next season. In 2017 the Thorns were no way better than the Courage but they had a lot of heart and fought like hell to get that star. It wasn't pretty but they showed real determination. Can we at least get some fight out of this team for now?
I never heard the end of that "fought like hell" (i.e. beat the living shit out of The Damned) Final from neutral friends. I was perfectly okay with it because Riley (spit!) and Marco Vega had thugged us out of the semi the year before.
Yeah, the narrative you always hear is that the Thorns thugged up that 2017 match to win it - which is correct. People are simply unaware that Riley's Courage had thugged up the Thorns at least as badly to win the semifinal in 2016, and the Thorns' play in 2017 was 100% a response to that.
It made for a very ugly game and I get why Carolina fans (most of whom had no connection with 2016 when The Damned were Western New York) were and are still pretty sore.
But what goes around comes around, and that semi built up a big chip on Portland shoulders.
Our "vaudevillian cane" blogger Andre Carlisle sums up the way I feel about this whole magilla:
"This is real monkey’s paw shit for me lol. I’ve been begging for a women’s club world cup for literally years. I truly believe it would overtake the Champions League as the most prestigious domestic tournament in soccer. It’s also something that can’t be replicated in broso because of the disproportionate concentration of resources in Europe. In women’s soccer the NWSL is a deeply competitive and talent-rich league, Liga MX Femenil is continuing to grow and its top teams are deeply talented as well.
I say all that and then here comes Jeff (Kassouf, in a tweet Carlisle references) reminding me that this competition could allow the NWSL to be represented by Rob Gale’s Strugglin’ Ass Portland Thorns or Landon Donovan’s San Diego Wavé. What did I do to deserve this."
Such a depressing season. Watching Sophia's goal, she looked tired - no energy, no enthusiasm. Worried that our best players will be planning their exit if something doesn't change and fast.
European WoSo news:
40,818 at the Emirates for Arsenal v Man City.
Horan with a brace, including a bicycle kick, in OL's 6-2 win over (Fists of) Fleury.
She finally bagged her bicycle? Good for Linds--distinctly recall Campbell depriving her at Providence that time.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=306678970110967
Save of the Week denies Goal of the Week
It's not a true bicycle from Lindsey yesterday, but it's a fairly difficult volley all the same.
https://youtu.be/UCpkK_UPLiE?t=269
Contorted herself like Gumby to pull it off.
Good lord, did Lyon pour it on after that minute 1 shocker. Also have not seen Endler in forever. Still very tall.
I know Fists of Fleury ain't great, but... the skill level on these goals! Yes, it helps to have more time and space to operate, but all those volleys off crosses or balls in over the top, and headers off of corners, what I wouldn't give for some of that here!
That's the one. Still gives me chills. Two greats facing off: "Top this." "Okay, here."
Miss those kits, too.
Alanna Kennedy provided the only successful NWSL bicycle I've seen, dropping one on Reign.
https://youtu.be/gAOyJRZbjVw?si=Vl1AKC86_3Wg44wt
I’d love for them to bring Parsons back as GM if he’s come to the conclusion that he won’t get a good head coaching gig. Maybe bring in Tony Gustavsson as the head coach and go from there.
Am simply sad.
Squad has imploded under bad/mismanagement and no relief is in sight.
2025 will dawn on PTFC donning the mantle of the league's next expansion club should the blue chip players all depart, and who could blame them?
But hey, WNBA.
With a goal against Bay FC on Friday, NC Courage forward Ashley Sanchez became the first NWSL player to score against all active clubs in the league.
I am surprised. I assumed that after all her years in the league, Sinclair would have achieved this milestone long ago.
As far as I know, Sinclair has never scored against the Thorns. Stability kinda disqualifies you from this particular achievement. (I don't know that she's scored against all the newer teams anyway.)
There's always the OG (do those even count for this?)
My bad.
So what the hell happened? What did San Diego do (or Portland fail to do) that turned this around? Was it the Gale subs? Tactical breakdown (“defensive derp” is kind of the Thorns meme…)? Sounds like bad luck was involved…TWO penalties? Was this on the CR?
I guess I’m tempted to just lump this with the rest of the dross. But…yes?
It was the kind of night when Coffey and Sauerbruun pick up penalties.
I cited Thornado's comment previously but it's a good one, they basically were just playing formless scrimmage out there, no organization or plan to be seen, everyone running around freelancing and seeing what they could improvise. The Thorns started with enough talent on the field and SD looked disorganized enough themselves that they capitalized on some good luck, but then subs happened, SD got themselves together, and the Thorns stopped catching lucky breaks on both sides of the ball but especially defending the box. I think the Thorns spent literally every minute between Moultrie's goal (~56') and stoppage time in their own half, on the defensive, and doing so poorly, the entire game was a scrambled blob from the team.
I'd have to rewatch (and I won't) to be more certain, but Fleming looked to have a very bad night, multiple bad passes, and Moultrie and D'Aquila continued the form we've seen most of the season. Spaanstra and Hirsch were pretty toothless, Obaze had some good stops but also poor passes out that resulted in turnovers and at one point Mueller was vocally and visibly angry at her poor marking in the box, rightfully so. Kling had some good effort in her but lacks the speed, agility, or stamina to make much a difference and got skinned on defense a couple times. Turner had a nice finish but didn't seem to have the pace to replace Smith or Weaver or to make up for Moultrie and D'Aquila. Overall, not great!
I’ve been consistently frustrated with the turnovers. They’re brutal, rec-league-level poor play, and usually not forced by opposing pressure. They reek to me of poor training. As with so much else here, it looks like coaching.
Sounds like the last 4 NWSL Thorns games. Talent overcoming a lack of organization. Sigh, a lot of promise this year.
Thorns were never the better team all game.
We got lucky on the first goal as a weak cross along the ground that was dummied over to Sophia that should have been easily handled by a defender, saw the defender fall over allowing the ball to roll to smith who was able to get the ball near post. Good finish still from Smith.
Second goal saw us take a quick throw in sending Moultrie down the wing who is able to cut in and find Turner who was able to put it away.
Those were basically our only 2 real chances all game and we finished them.
Rest of the game was defending, poor passes to no one and the opposition, the usual stuff. We did less trying to escape pressure to our keeper since it wasn't Macca in goal but no one knew where anyone else was it was a mess.
First PK poor passing but this time in front of goal instead of midfield, to recover Sam does her tackle near the 18 box line. Coffey adamant she committed it outside the box ref said inside. No VAR and no real camera angle shared that was conclusive.
2nd goal 2 minutes later Cross from the goal line to the far post their player gets up and smashed the header off the grass and into the goal.
3rd goal 2nd PK Sauerbrunn judged to committed a handball by the ref. Off the arm and out for a corner. With VAR this one likely comes back. Arm was downard and maybe 5-10 degrees away from the torso. Referee calls it a handball.
The first half was mostly San Diego dominance but they were not able to get any of their chances to go in. Second half was more of the same but they were able to convert just enough to win. Hogan made a few saves but showed how bad she is at distribution again, in comparison.
Smith came out at the half, after game Gale said she was on a minutes restriction and medical had him remove her. We had Kling playing a LB most of the game and being effective in the wings has been lost to her.
That’s pretty damning. San Diego is not a good team right now yet somehow we were worse? Ugh.
I'm not sure we're better than Houston right now and that's not hyperbole.
Our defensive ineptitude made them look good offensively.
Rob Gale is in fact worse than Landon "Landycakes" Donovan
They were pretty bad the whole game. Basically couldn’t muster any real threat going forward.
I sure picked a good night to go to the movies. Yikes.
You sure did lol.
Fun film, too, very odd little anime. But sounds like a screening of the Madonna “Body of Evidence” would have been a better option than that game.
This was Ishtar level shit.
What a sad disaster 😞
Given that we're barely hanging onto 7th place, that Soph and Hina are out, and that Gale and KK either need to commit to the future or hit the bricks, here's what I'd like to see tonight and from here on out as often as possible:
GK: Arnold
D: Reyes, Obaze, Bruun, Muller (subs Payne and Hubly)
M: Coffey, Fleming, Moultrie (subs Hirst and Sheva)
F: Spaanstra, Linnehan, Turner (subs Weaver and D'Aquila)
It's time to see what the younger players can do and if they can do it together.
It's time to see if Fleming and Moultrie can find a way to coexist in a mutually-beneficial way.
And it's time to take some minutes off of anchors like Bruun and Coffey, and make sure Weaver remains healthy.
Per Kassouf, Smith out for ACFC w ankle knock.
So, what you're saying is that Sinclair will go the full 90 tonight.
Here's our availability report:
OUT: Bella Bixby (maternity leave), Hina Sugita (face), Sophia Smith (ankle), Gabby Provenzano (SEI – ankle)
That Hina Sugita "face" is ominous. It could mean skull, orbital, nose, jaw. And "face" is not "concussion," but might also include concussion.
Yeah, "face" sounds like it could potentially be better than a concussion, for recovery purposes....but yeah, if it's an orbital or something, could be the end of her season.
This must be the universe trying to ensure we miss playoffs and Gale/KK and crew are fired...
My guess when she went off was concussion + facial fracture; either orbit or cheekbone or both. The right side of her face and right eye puffed up immediately and severely.
I would not be surprised to see her out for some time and even then playing in one of those Phantom of the Opera face shields when she does return.
One of the consolations of the shitty state of the Thorns would be that at least the team could shut down Hina for last 5 games and let her rest and fully heal. Ideally, also bubble-wrap everyone else of value (Smith, Weaver, etc) on limited minutes, and let the season mercifully play out while our nostalgic and/or Canadian fan bretheren appreciate the last five full games from Sinclair.
In any case, it is imperative that under no circumstances does Linnehan (or any other promising young player who could really help this team in 2025 and beyond) get any minutes or otherwise get the chance to develop in any way. /s
Good god that's grim. Hooray for CBSSN and not being able to view the coming shitestorm.
Hina's situation sounds bad.
Given how things are going, even if she were ready to come back sooner, I'd say that we shouldn't see Hina on the pitch again until 2025.
Is she shutting herself down? Couldn't blame her if she is. In fact, with Hina's SEI (presumably) and the Thorns sinking like a rock, it would be the right move, IMO.
https://www.wweek.com/sports/2024/09/18/the-thorns-have-a-goalkeeper-problem/
As I replied on the other thread:
The only metric the WW piece uses to compare Arnold and Hogan is save %, which effectively ignores the defenders in front. It’s not worthless, but it lacks context.
If you look at Arnold’s “post-shot xG minus goals-against per 90 minutes” it’s -0.11, meaning that her shot-stopping during the run of play is slightly worse that her xG against predicts. It puts her in the 35th percentile for NWSL keepers.
Hogan? -0.08, 40th percentile.
That’s pretty much “within the error of the instrument”.
And Arnold IS better with the ball. So.
I think the whole reason they spilt so much ink on this is the way it was touted as a “big signing”. It never was, and Arnold is what she was at West Ham; a fairly average-to-just-slightly-below-average keeper.
But I also agree; she’s not really the big problem. So…
Who's to say at this juncture? Being in goal on a dysfunctional team is a tough environment in which to judge the new player's qualities and deficits.
OTOH a starter contest between Arnold and Hogan could potentially benefit both, getting them to focus on areas of weakness. They do present different styles and physical abilities. Door #3 is the whither Bix? one.
What do the coaches think? I crack myself up.
I now wonder if Bixby was pregnant during the AC fiasco. That said, my assumption is Arnold is more highly regarded and it’s a battle between her/Hogan for the backup postion.
In reality, my hope is they let go or redeploy KK soon and end up with a real GM before the end of the year so they can assess / fire Gale.
League inadvertently rescues (many of) us from potentially viewing next Monday's(?) match by showing it only on CBS Sports Network. Plenty of time meanwhile to ponder the Sept 28 Wave rematch and who might be coaching it.