I'm glad we have the opportunity to celebrate her at the end. It might well be the only thing we have to celebrate this season.
I'm also glad that she has shown us a few times this year - even if only against Liga MX Femenil clubs and Angel City - that she's still got some highlights, a helluva lot of soccer knowledge, and great teammate leadership in there.
As I just posted elsewhere, watching that legendary footy mind at work for all those years made me understand the game better. If I'd have had that same understanding of the game back in my playing days, I'd have been...well...still mediocre, probably. But seriously, it was a treat.
I often think of that. Growing up in the 70s and 80s, it was very difficult, if not next to impossible, to access soccer broadcasts where I could have learned a ton about the game simply by watching good/great players and teams.
Exciting news for her, but I swear I thought she already announced this would be her last year? I always had the assumption she was retiring since she said “how bout one more year Portland?” when she signed her contract.
I hope Portland can show up for her last game, and I hope we can give her a W her last game. At least a bright spot in an otherwise dark season.
Yeah, if nothing else, it almost seemed a foregone conclusion (or maybe just wishful thinking creeping in). I hope this wasn't the "big news" we were teased, but I fear it is.
Maybe other folks didn't take her message as literally as I did...I def thought it was known this was her last season lol. But yeah, the team hadn't made any formal announcement or plans for a send-off game, so I *was* wondering when that would happen. I'd say there will be no bigger news from the club than them formally announcing her retirement today.
Sincy utilized language there that suggests to me she's retiring from Portland and the NWSL, but not necessarily from soccer.
She said "this... city that I will always call home."
I note that Horan has described Portland the same way. Heath too.
Each has their own particular relationship to, and history with, the city, but I have a hunch that Sinc is heading home to Vancouver to play for a while. She's still got lots of soccer in her, if not NWSL soccer.
Curious what the image of her holding a Vancouver WoSo scarf over her face was about. Wonder if she might get involved up there in some non-playing capacity.
I'm not a fan of 3/5 backs in general, but for whatever reason, a team that looked completely clueless for the better part of three months suddenly looked confident in possession for much of the match last night. I'd highlight a few key areas:
- Muller: She's so damn good when she gets to roam wherever she wants and playing as a wingback really freed her to do so. Unbelievable motor.
- The added width seemed to pull ACFC midfielders wide and give Coffey, Fleming, and Moultrie a little more room to operate. Moultrie played one of her best games as a Thorn- I've been very critical of her work rate as of late, but it was MUCH better last night. She's a player who needs to be engaged to be even remotely effective and playing her as a true ten (whoda thunk!) seemed to really activate her.
- Obaze and Becky's ball skills are so noticeable in a three back, but they also accentuate Hubly's lack thereof. Find a third ballplaying CB and things probably start to improve. I know she got the assist, but she's now *directly* cost this team two goals (and probably 3-4 points) with absolutely mind-numbing individual errors.
- Weaver is realllly important. Made Sinc's propensity to drop in much more effective when the threat is there in behind. Everything kinda went to shit as soon as she was taken off and they lost the outlet. Good reminder of both how much Gale has killed the team by playing without any pace up front and how much we've missed both Soph and Weaver- There are plenty of other issues, but you simply cannot get away with the lack of frontline pace the Thorns have played with for a majority of the season.
- I'd also like to highlight Reyna, who is getting better and better every game. She's not without her flaws, but she's turned into an absolutely ELITE 1v1 defender.
About Reyes, I beg to differ. I'll admit that when I heard that she'd been on the Mexico Women's Nation Team I had much higher expectations. But I also didn't know that she was so young; so lacking in professional experience.
While you may not like 3-5-2 (I've been 4-3-3 adherent most of my life), I think Reyes in the middle 5 is the best position for her. She is in no weigh an elite defender. But as an outside member of that group of 5 midfielders she has both Coffee and the 3 center backs to cover for the frequency that she's out of position in the line of 4 in a 4-3-3 when we don't have possession.
This is factually incorrect. Reyes is, quite literally, the single best FB 1v1 in the entire league in terms of both percentage of dribblers tackled and aerial duels won. In other words, she doesn’t get beat 1v1. She’s not without her flaws — she lacks pace, isn’t always in position— hence why I didn’t call her an elite defender overall, but she is absolutely an elite 1v1 defender.
In the narrow case. Not good enough in my opinion. I am always looking at the whole case. At this time, best as one of the five in the midfield where she can use her skill going forward as she gets up to speed at being a complete defender in a 4 back lineup. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Lol It's not really a matter of agreeing to disagree. I stated she was an elite 1v1 defender and provided the metrics that prove it. Quite literally, when an attacker tries to beat her 1v1, that attacker is less likely to be successful against Reyna than against *any other fullback in the entire league.* That is a fact, not an opinion.
Again, not arguing that she's close to being a perfect player or even a perfect defender, but when we're talking 1v1, she's at an extremely high level.
I have seen those stats, basically number of tackles. What I am puzzling is that why the entire USWNT back line players have fewer tackles. Do they intercept passes more often so they don't have to tackle as much? Is their positioning better so they don't have to tackle as much? Number of tackles just doesn't seem to be worth much.
No, it's not basically the number of tackles, it's the *percentage of dribblers tackled*. Using percentage means we're looking at the success rate instead of just the raw counting metrics because yes, you're right: the number of tackles doesn't mean anything on it's own and often just shows which teams are defending the most.
For reference, three of the top five players in the "percentage of dribblers tackled" statistic are Naomi Girma, Abby Dahlkemper, and Tierna Davidson, which should answer your USWNT question. Also on that list are Sarah Gorden and Abby Erceg. Reyes is 9th overall, but the best FB.
Twila Kilgore has officially stepped down from USWNT duties and apparently has a NWSL job lined up. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HAVE IT BE THE THORNS END THE PAIN.
I’m all for a change…but Kilgore is practically a black hole. Her only extended stint was UC Davis, where her winning % was about 60%. Not a death mark, but not a ringing endorsement, either.
I guess I’d like to see a more thorough HC search than the last three, or a “she’s not Ken!” bar to clear…
Who would be a very good GM get? I’d love Parsons to reconsider and give it a try. His skill has always been people management and identifying players that fit within his “system”. If he can parlay that to other more skilled coaches , he could be a net positive and he brings credibility to an org that frankly lacks it.
I still think I’d hire Becky in whatever role she wanted.
Parsons is 1) a good roster builder who is also 2) kind of high on his own coaching supply and would likely be very difficult for anyone but a really strong-willed HC to work with. IF I thought Parsons would stay in his GM lane I'd be less concerned. I don't think he's accepted that matchday management isn't a particular strength of his. Would he be an improvement on the current GM? Ohhellyes. Do I have confidence that the Bhathals would be able to run him and a HC in harness the way he and GW ran under Paulson? Ohhellno.
Given the state of our backline and defense in general, what on earth would suggest that Sauerbrunn has anything to impart as a defensive coach? Clearly Vytas doesn't, but for all that she seems very thoughtful and bright Brunn's current coworkers don't look like she's teaching them anything.
It doesn’t? Hubly isn’t particularly adept, but I’d argue that most of the players who have played with her have played at a higher level than before they played with her outside of Menges
But that's the thing: until she destroyed her teammates' trust with that stupid affair, Menges was the field leader in the back, and she was damn good at it. 'Brunn is more of a locker room leader, I'd say (and likely a great one, although that's not something an outsider to the team can really ever know). A lot of the Thorns' defensive problems for a while now lie in lack of on-pitch coordination (and someone to keep an eye on Hubly's focus).
There's no one filling that role in teh back right now...and I see no likely candidate to start. This is the main reason I've been advocating for a "big news" CB signing.
The defense has given up crap goals regularly for this entire season, and last season conceded more than anyone else above the red line (and all but two below). I'd argue that 1)as individuals, no, not particularly (name one who has. Nally? Kuikka? Reyes? Not seeing it...), and 2) as a unit the Thorns have not been an outstanding defensive unit since 2021.
That's not a higher level of anything.
Brunn seems like a bright, thoughtful, decent human being. But I'm not seeing anything more.
You do realize she’s been on the team for four years? I believe Kling has played considerably better with Becky behind her after looking washed. I’d also argue that Muller/Sauerbrunn has been far from a problem this year.
I’d love to keep Becky in the org. Team leader lauded and highly intelligent. That’s better than what’s currently in leadership roles.
Umm…yes, and that actually argues against the case you seem to think it makes.
Because as David points out, Emily Menges was here, too. And unsurprisingly to me the problem in the backline seems to begin first as Menges struggled with injury and then chose to fuck around and found out.
It’s when she’s gone that things go to hell…suggesting the unit has regressed during the Sauerbrunn Era
I don’t believe that is on her! But it DOESNT seem suggestive of the theory of ‘Brunn as some sort of soccer sensei.
She seems like very good people and if the Bhathals can find something for her to do? Great! But frankly we’ve had more than enough people working here because “people like them” or “they are a legend”. If it turns out ‘Brunn really can teach? Then hire away!
I object to using the baseball term dugout. There are no dugouts. I don’t think I care if you call it technical area, but please not dugout lol.
Opportunity cost. That’s the issue with Sinclair. I wouldn’t assume we wouldn’t have done as well or better had Turner started. I’m fed up with the Sinc boosters who think our into criticism of her is her age and suggest we don’t watch the matches. She’s slow. She doesn’t press. She tires more easily. She’s in the way of other players getting meaningful minutes. She needs to go away and people need to quit hero worshiping her so much. It’s weird. Just stop. Yes, she’s had an amazing career and made many contributions. At this point, it’s frustrating and embarrassing that she’s still on the team.
The Good: road point. Multiple goals without Smith. Uptick in energy. Nice buildup on Weaver goal. Sinc using her skills effectively. Hubly assist.
The Bad: Arnold - positioning, handling, judgement - Hubly defending. Turnovers. General lack of cohesion and communication (tho better than, say, against Chicago). Opponent (let’s not kid ourselves; uptick or not Orlando would have mopped the floor with us last night…)
The Ugly: Arnold (sorry, but she was that bad). Haracic (tried to throw the match with horrific turnovers several times). Long stretches of rec league-level play from both sides. Thorns SSDD lack of discipline in holding a late lead.
I’d like to think this was a step up…but the opponent and the derps make that hard to feel comfortable with. We’ll just have to wait and see.
After a couple of days, I find myself getting more content with a point. Yes it sucked to lose the 3 points late on, but getting a point on the road without Smith and with only 60 minutes of Weaver isn't bad. And although we still have no NWSL wins since July 5, at least the draw ended a losing streak.
It would've been big fun to see Sauerbrunn score that late shot though!
I finally got to see the game. Well that was the best the Thorns have looked in weeks. Good games from Weaver, Mūller, Moultrie, Coffey, Fleming, Obaze, Sauerbrunn, Reyes and yes Sinclair(she can really pass).
The thing is Angel City is not a top of the table team. But Wow how come Sara Gorden has never made the USWNT, she is a truly excellent player. They have some talent and might be a year or two and a better keeper away from being good team.
I feel a bit more positive after that game. If the Thorns can win some winnable games between now and Smith and Sugita’s recovery, who knows.
That was a super interesting article to read. I’m glad it all worked out. And that she was given an option at the end of the day. She’s a great leader and I’m sure she will do great things over there. This part really stuck out to me “ I just know my role is so much bigger than scoring goals, and so that kind of feels like an added bonus when I do get to score.” I’ve criticized KK a lot but she got this move exactly right.
Nothing about Beckie's own comments suggest she's unhappy with what happened, but you have to look at the timing of this by Racing and Portland and think "They wanted to get this done before the new CBA kicked in."
seems from Beckie's wording of it, that the Thorns understood the chances were good Beckie would be gone at the end of the year, anyway, and wanted to get something in trade value for an expiring asset. That's actually LeBlanc making a good call for the longer-term future of the club - getting a possibly rising talent in Turner instead of waiting until the end of the year and getting nothing in return- AND doing the right thing by Beckie by letting her know, and getting her agreement to the deal.
She also said in another interview that she’s feeling rejuvenated and more confident in herself now which is great to hear. She’s already made a clear impact for Racing - obviously the goal she scored was fantastic, but her work rate and diligence definitely helps them regardless, especially in closing out matches. They’re at a different stage as a club where they specifically need her skills and if they do make playoffs she’s gonna be a major part of that. It’s nice to see a player traded like this who then actually really benefits from it, even if Thorns could have handled it better.
Miss her. The energy, drive and leadership MIGHT have helped counter the post-May cratering, to some extent. Might. (And if granny had wheels she could be a go-kart.)
A team spokesperson has confirmed that Sophia Smith did return to Portland to receive care and the ankle injury is a flare up of the same injury Smith battled post-2023 World Cup.
Which makes no sense because her injury last year was a knee injury. Maybe she had both an ankle and a knee injury last year.
This makes me think we won't see her much or at all this year.
Bad opponent, but interesting to me that we had more offensive output than we've had in a long time, and that came without Smith, Sugita, and Spaanstra.
Sometimes there are combinations of players who don't work well together, just like there are combinations of players who do.
Sometimes players step up when there is a void, too.
I don't know what the answers are. I still have lots of questions.
I’m going to be curious when I watch this again, but my general impression last night was that a LOT of our attack came from AC trying unsuccessfully to play out of the back and turning the ball over near their goal or in midfield. In other words, THEY generated a lot of OUR attack.
One of the Thorns' big issues has been holding a disciplined shape in the press. They tend to leave big gaps between lines, which allows teams to play through really easily. That was MUCH better last night: A lot of coordinated presses that lead to Obaze, Coffey, Muller, or Becky reading outballs and stepping in front. ACFC didn't help themselves, but it was much better overall on the Thorns side.
Attacks generated by both (modest pressure + poor response): 2 (minute 16 twice)
Attacks generated by Thorns buildup w/o turnovers: 1 (minute 13)
So...kinda "porque no los dos"; the Thorns DID press effectively (I'll bet you'd find few if any of the last ten games in which the Thorns forced an opponent to turn over five to seven times in a single half) but they were also gifted a LOT of opportunities - ACFC is really poor.
Since the two Thorns goals come after the break I'll be curious to see how that goes.
Oh, and FWIW the Thorns DID leave a ton of space...but it was 1) at the top of midfield - the gap was biggest between Coffey and the forwards - and not behind Coffey and 2) ACFC didn't use it much.
Dougherty-Howard was the only AC midfielder trying to play through; everything else went up the touchlines trying to take advantage of Reyes and Muller pushing up. It worked several times (the goal and in the 43rd minute) but the Thorns generally got back to cover and Leroux wasn't effective. The one time she was - a gorgeous 4th minute run onto a D-H through ball - Obaze made a hero tackle.
Sounds about right to me- The big thing was the shape relative to how it's looked relative to the last few months, and more specifically the last few weeks, where they haven't even looked like the players new each other for the most part. In a 3-5-2, you generally want the gaps (which will inevitably be there if you're pressing at all) to be between the two 8s and the 6 instead of the the front line and the two 8s to allow the six to clean up. This is pretty good (if a bit risky), even if a better team does a better job at isolating Sam. https://www.imghippo.com/i/HLbdT1727275394.png
So yeah, not to say that they were the Orlando Pride out there.....but they went from "wow, this is the worst midfield shape of all time" to "OK, there might be something here" over the course of two weeks. Which...we'll see if it sticks at all, but was slightly encouraging.
The problem for me is that we’ve seen “slightly encouraging” before; the six-game run that earned Ken his job. Turned out to be false dawn, result of poor opponents and possibly a dead cat bounce.
So my reaction is “hmmm”. If we see it more? Especially against Orlando (even if we lose but it’s respectable…)? Then I’ll be encouraged.
"Vancouver Rise FC of the newly formed Northern Super League has teased that Sinclair may take on a role with the club, posting a photo of her with the caption "Something BIG coming soon."
""I still have the passion as that young four-year-old growing up in Burnaby, B.C., but as I hang up my playing boots, I vow to channel it in a new way. To continue growing the game I love while inspiring the next generation," Sinclair wrote."
ESPN's story on Sinc's announcement. Nope, she's really done.
"There was loose speculation that the 41-year-old might be tempted to play one more year in her hometown, with Canada launching a first-division women's league -- the Northern Super League -- in 2025.
"Sinclair played semiprofessionally for the Vancouver Whitecaps in the first iteration of the USL W-League in the early 2000s. The USL W-League was the highest level of women's soccer in the U.S. and Canada at the time, during the years when there was no professional league in the U.S. Vancouver won the league title in 2006.
"The Thorns will play the current iteration of the Whitecaps in downtown Vancouver's BC Place on Oct. 15 in their final group match of the inaugural Concacaf W Champions Cup.
"BC Place was the site of Sinclair's final game for Canada last year. It was temporarily renamed "Christine Sinclair Place"."
We talk about keeper distribution as being overrated.
But, we love having field players who are good on providing dead-ball service, and we think that it might be nice to have one of these players who can throw the ball a country mile (OK, maybe just into a dangerous spot within the 18).
Why is one overrated but the others seen as so important or would-be-great-to-have?
Is it just because one is part of building out while the others are part of attack? Because, to me, precise, strategic possession is important no matter where on the field it happens.
Largely because a keeper's long boots - and that's what we're really talking about when we complain about "distribution" as a keeper issue - tend to come down in a crowded midfield, and what happens then is more on the field players.
The opponent simply has too much time to mark up and dispute the outlet. There's few opportunities for a runner to get open under the long service, and if they do they're a long way from goal, giving the defenders time to get back and cover.
That's almost all goal kicks and probably 80-90% of punts.
Run-of-play clearances might be more successful if the keeper can send a low flat drive on a dime to a runner. I've seen it, and it's gorgeous when it works. But it's damn hard to time perfectly. The field players need to know when that drive is coming, meaning they and the keeper would have to practice that a LOT. Instead of other things.
So it's a question of effort versus return. Practicing that long outlet pass and run when it only pays off maybe 1-2% of the time, if that? That may not be a good use of limited practice time.
And let me be clear; "good keeper distribution" is GOOD. A keeper should be competent with the ball at her feet, which is why I don't see Bixby or Hogan as preferable to Arnold providing Arnold can start making better decisions.
But it's not "important" in a tactical context. It's highly, highly unlikely to influence match play more than fractionally. Do I want that fraction? Sure! But if I have a keeper who's significantly better against the shot and in the air, would I prefer one who's poorer there but better in distribution? Ohhellno. The first one will prevent losses while the other is unlikely to help secure wins more than a minuscule degree.
“But it's not "important" in a tactical context. It's highly, highly unlikely to influence match play more than fractionally.”
I’m not sure that’s entirely true when all the top clubs in Europe, both men’s and women’s, have almost exclusively switched to a model where their keepers are elite with the ball at their feet.
It’s why, for example, I think Hayes is going to look to move on from Naeher. She moved on from Berger for Hampton because Hampton has better distribution.
Again; if your choices are "solid technical keeper who passes well" or "solid technical keeper who passes poorly" you go with Door #1 every time.
If your choices are "solid technical keeper whose passing is meh" or "keeper with technical issues who passes well" your shooting yourself in the foot if you go with Door #2, simply because conceding a saveable goal is vastly more likely to drop you points than a keeper assist will gain them.
Modern keepers - as you point out - are trained to play the ball out. But I'll bet you all the money in your pocket against all the money in mine that if Hampton's PSxG-GA/90m was significantly lower than Berger's? Hampton would still be slogging through losses at Villa...
Keeping (heh) local, our boys take on very different personas depending on whether the Keeper du Jour is a blaster or a roller-outer. Effectiveness of either approach depends in part on the opponent and whether they're good at collecting 50:50 balls. If not, then the offence is off and running well past midfield (keepers all have cannons for legs). Building from the back works much better on nights they're losing that battle in the middle.
Generally prefer the rollout and build from the back and while not knowing stats on the Thorns, my eye tells me they're not good at acquiring and controlling keeper blasts in the midfield.
How much is it affected by keeper communications with her squad?
What REALLY matters when you have a ball playing keeper is whether your CBs are equally good on the ball. Obaze and Becky are not only both technically skilled, but excellent passers: League-wide, Obaze is first and Becky is third in overall pass completion percentage......which, while not the most important statistic, is relevant when you consider Hubly, who gets the most minutes of any of them, is nearly 9% worse.
(I don't think keeper distribution is overrated fwiw- I think it's hugely important)
I think the problem folks have with Arnold specifically is that outside of the Spirit game, we haven't seen her pull off a bunch of crazy saves. So, when she makes handling errors like she did on the second goal yesterday, many feel that the distribution part (which has been an undeniable pro) doesn't adequately balance out the perceived lack of prevented goals. What some people might fail to remember are the (at least) three different occasions this year Hogan's sloppy distribution lead directly to goals, and that's not to mention how dreadful Bella's was last season. Add in the fatigue over new GKs and the fact that KK marketed her as this huge international signing, and I think that's where the angst sets in.
Arnold's better distribution makes her *more comfortable* on the ball, too, which I think affects the other players. Things just seem calmer in back with Arnold there. I sure wish she were a better shot-stopper though. That second ACFC goal, where Arnold put the ball a yard in front of the goal line, was mostly on Arnold.
It's not just handling. She's been making really poor decisions - against Chicago, in LA - and her positioning has been suspect.
Until she corrects those, her distribution won't help much more than they did against Chicago or ACFC. As I noted in my comment above; to have any real attacking effect requires a combination of practice and coincidence that is difficult to justify in returns.
Now...I agree; a keeper can't be actively POOR in getting the ball out into play. Bixby made some real howlers, and Hogan isn't great, either.
But Arnold's technical failings have cost goals and points. It's hard to point to her distribution, better as it is, as counterbalancing that.
You're being wildly harsh. I can't believe she's getting even partially blamed for the Chicago goal which was entirely on Liv, and she hasn't really made another major error outside of last weekend's.....which was, admittedly, a *very bad and very costly mistake*. I just went back and watched all the goals the Thorns have conceded with her in net to make sure I wasn't missing something....and I wasn't! If I'm really getting nitpicky, she probably could have done better with the third Bay goal, but even that one is right in the corner and her view is obstructed. Hell, she was one of the main reasons they were so close to a point in DC!
If you want data proof --with the obvious sample size and keeper data limitation caveats-- here are her 2024 Thorns metrics next to Hogan's: https://www.imghippo.com/i/yaHha1727407543.png
Her shot stopping value added (which was the most concerning issue from her West Ham days) has been --somewhat surprisingly to me-- excellent for Portland, whereas Hogan's had been dreadful. Her pass completion %, defensive actions, and cross claiming metrics are all much better. She's just been an objectively better keeper pretty much across the board!
I'd also argue that the primary value of a technically adept keeper in possession is less what it adds to the attack, and more the comfort it gives the defense. It's noticeable how much more the defenders trust her on the ball, and you can see that pretty clearly in the raw touches data relative to Hogan and Bixby. Though yes, she'd be adding a lot more value going forward if the Thorns were more cohesive in their buildup.
I hadn't seen her metrics here (her game numbers were too low) since the BayFC loss, when Arnold’s average post-shot xG-against minus goals-against per 90 minutes was -0.18 to Hogan’s -0.14.
Now? Her numbers against the shot are +0.57 per 90m; that's better than any keeper we've had since Franch. Given that her issues are WAY less of an "issue" and I retract 90% of my condemnation.
That said...she DOES have judgement issues (or training issues) that make her job harder. She made a bad decision to come way out after the Moultrie backpass; it took away her chance to try and make a 1v0 stop by tangling her up with Hubly. She didn't make good choices in LA, and had some technical goofs against BFC.
And I'd like to see a clean sheet before talking about this "defensive comfort" kimosabe. Our defense is STILL leaking goals. When we whip Orlando 3-nil? Let's talk.
Sincy is retiring!
I know that we all have gripes about the way she's been fielded this season, but I'm happy we'll have a chance to celebrate her legendary career.
And hey Bhathals - let's get a statue of her at PP!
https://x.com/tayvincent6/status/1839697413705212182
I'm glad we have the opportunity to celebrate her at the end. It might well be the only thing we have to celebrate this season.
I'm also glad that she has shown us a few times this year - even if only against Liga MX Femenil clubs and Angel City - that she's still got some highlights, a helluva lot of soccer knowledge, and great teammate leadership in there.
For as harsh as some of us were about her capabilities towards the end of her career, she’s a signature player for the NWSL and an all time great
As I just posted elsewhere, watching that legendary footy mind at work for all those years made me understand the game better. If I'd have had that same understanding of the game back in my playing days, I'd have been...well...still mediocre, probably. But seriously, it was a treat.
I often think of that. Growing up in the 70s and 80s, it was very difficult, if not next to impossible, to access soccer broadcasts where I could have learned a ton about the game simply by watching good/great players and teams.
Exciting news for her, but I swear I thought she already announced this would be her last year? I always had the assumption she was retiring since she said “how bout one more year Portland?” when she signed her contract.
I hope Portland can show up for her last game, and I hope we can give her a W her last game. At least a bright spot in an otherwise dark season.
Yeah, if nothing else, it almost seemed a foregone conclusion (or maybe just wishful thinking creeping in). I hope this wasn't the "big news" we were teased, but I fear it is.
Maybe other folks didn't take her message as literally as I did...I def thought it was known this was her last season lol. But yeah, the team hadn't made any formal announcement or plans for a send-off game, so I *was* wondering when that would happen. I'd say there will be no bigger news from the club than them formally announcing her retirement today.
Sincy utilized language there that suggests to me she's retiring from Portland and the NWSL, but not necessarily from soccer.
She said "this... city that I will always call home."
I note that Horan has described Portland the same way. Heath too.
Each has their own particular relationship to, and history with, the city, but I have a hunch that Sinc is heading home to Vancouver to play for a while. She's still got lots of soccer in her, if not NWSL soccer.
Nah, she already announced she’s not playing for Vancouver.
(Plus, the Thorns announcement states she’s retiring from pro soccer)
Yeah, I see that now.
Curious what the image of her holding a Vancouver WoSo scarf over her face was about. Wonder if she might get involved up there in some non-playing capacity.
Maybe an ownership stake?
I'm not a fan of 3/5 backs in general, but for whatever reason, a team that looked completely clueless for the better part of three months suddenly looked confident in possession for much of the match last night. I'd highlight a few key areas:
- Muller: She's so damn good when she gets to roam wherever she wants and playing as a wingback really freed her to do so. Unbelievable motor.
- The added width seemed to pull ACFC midfielders wide and give Coffey, Fleming, and Moultrie a little more room to operate. Moultrie played one of her best games as a Thorn- I've been very critical of her work rate as of late, but it was MUCH better last night. She's a player who needs to be engaged to be even remotely effective and playing her as a true ten (whoda thunk!) seemed to really activate her.
- Obaze and Becky's ball skills are so noticeable in a three back, but they also accentuate Hubly's lack thereof. Find a third ballplaying CB and things probably start to improve. I know she got the assist, but she's now *directly* cost this team two goals (and probably 3-4 points) with absolutely mind-numbing individual errors.
- Weaver is realllly important. Made Sinc's propensity to drop in much more effective when the threat is there in behind. Everything kinda went to shit as soon as she was taken off and they lost the outlet. Good reminder of both how much Gale has killed the team by playing without any pace up front and how much we've missed both Soph and Weaver- There are plenty of other issues, but you simply cannot get away with the lack of frontline pace the Thorns have played with for a majority of the season.
- I'd also like to highlight Reyna, who is getting better and better every game. She's not without her flaws, but she's turned into an absolutely ELITE 1v1 defender.
About Reyes, I beg to differ. I'll admit that when I heard that she'd been on the Mexico Women's Nation Team I had much higher expectations. But I also didn't know that she was so young; so lacking in professional experience.
While you may not like 3-5-2 (I've been 4-3-3 adherent most of my life), I think Reyes in the middle 5 is the best position for her. She is in no weigh an elite defender. But as an outside member of that group of 5 midfielders she has both Coffee and the 3 center backs to cover for the frequency that she's out of position in the line of 4 in a 4-3-3 when we don't have possession.
This is factually incorrect. Reyes is, quite literally, the single best FB 1v1 in the entire league in terms of both percentage of dribblers tackled and aerial duels won. In other words, she doesn’t get beat 1v1. She’s not without her flaws — she lacks pace, isn’t always in position— hence why I didn’t call her an elite defender overall, but she is absolutely an elite 1v1 defender.
In the narrow case. Not good enough in my opinion. I am always looking at the whole case. At this time, best as one of the five in the midfield where she can use her skill going forward as she gets up to speed at being a complete defender in a 4 back lineup. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Lol It's not really a matter of agreeing to disagree. I stated she was an elite 1v1 defender and provided the metrics that prove it. Quite literally, when an attacker tries to beat her 1v1, that attacker is less likely to be successful against Reyna than against *any other fullback in the entire league.* That is a fact, not an opinion.
Again, not arguing that she's close to being a perfect player or even a perfect defender, but when we're talking 1v1, she's at an extremely high level.
I have seen those stats, basically number of tackles. What I am puzzling is that why the entire USWNT back line players have fewer tackles. Do they intercept passes more often so they don't have to tackle as much? Is their positioning better so they don't have to tackle as much? Number of tackles just doesn't seem to be worth much.
No, it's not basically the number of tackles, it's the *percentage of dribblers tackled*. Using percentage means we're looking at the success rate instead of just the raw counting metrics because yes, you're right: the number of tackles doesn't mean anything on it's own and often just shows which teams are defending the most.
For reference, three of the top five players in the "percentage of dribblers tackled" statistic are Naomi Girma, Abby Dahlkemper, and Tierna Davidson, which should answer your USWNT question. Also on that list are Sarah Gorden and Abby Erceg. Reyes is 9th overall, but the best FB.
Twila Kilgore has officially stepped down from USWNT duties and apparently has a NWSL job lined up. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HAVE IT BE THE THORNS END THE PAIN.
I’m all for a change…but Kilgore is practically a black hole. Her only extended stint was UC Davis, where her winning % was about 60%. Not a death mark, but not a ringing endorsement, either.
I guess I’d like to see a more thorough HC search than the last three, or a “she’s not Ken!” bar to clear…
Who would be a very good GM get? I’d love Parsons to reconsider and give it a try. His skill has always been people management and identifying players that fit within his “system”. If he can parlay that to other more skilled coaches , he could be a net positive and he brings credibility to an org that frankly lacks it.
I still think I’d hire Becky in whatever role she wanted.
Part of me wonders if Kate Markgraf gets a look
Parsons is 1) a good roster builder who is also 2) kind of high on his own coaching supply and would likely be very difficult for anyone but a really strong-willed HC to work with. IF I thought Parsons would stay in his GM lane I'd be less concerned. I don't think he's accepted that matchday management isn't a particular strength of his. Would he be an improvement on the current GM? Ohhellyes. Do I have confidence that the Bhathals would be able to run him and a HC in harness the way he and GW ran under Paulson? Ohhellno.
Given the state of our backline and defense in general, what on earth would suggest that Sauerbrunn has anything to impart as a defensive coach? Clearly Vytas doesn't, but for all that she seems very thoughtful and bright Brunn's current coworkers don't look like she's teaching them anything.
It doesn’t? Hubly isn’t particularly adept, but I’d argue that most of the players who have played with her have played at a higher level than before they played with her outside of Menges
But that's the thing: until she destroyed her teammates' trust with that stupid affair, Menges was the field leader in the back, and she was damn good at it. 'Brunn is more of a locker room leader, I'd say (and likely a great one, although that's not something an outsider to the team can really ever know). A lot of the Thorns' defensive problems for a while now lie in lack of on-pitch coordination (and someone to keep an eye on Hubly's focus).
There's no one filling that role in teh back right now...and I see no likely candidate to start. This is the main reason I've been advocating for a "big news" CB signing.
The defense has given up crap goals regularly for this entire season, and last season conceded more than anyone else above the red line (and all but two below). I'd argue that 1)as individuals, no, not particularly (name one who has. Nally? Kuikka? Reyes? Not seeing it...), and 2) as a unit the Thorns have not been an outstanding defensive unit since 2021.
That's not a higher level of anything.
Brunn seems like a bright, thoughtful, decent human being. But I'm not seeing anything more.
OK.
You do realize she’s been on the team for four years? I believe Kling has played considerably better with Becky behind her after looking washed. I’d also argue that Muller/Sauerbrunn has been far from a problem this year.
I’d love to keep Becky in the org. Team leader lauded and highly intelligent. That’s better than what’s currently in leadership roles.
Umm…yes, and that actually argues against the case you seem to think it makes.
Because as David points out, Emily Menges was here, too. And unsurprisingly to me the problem in the backline seems to begin first as Menges struggled with injury and then chose to fuck around and found out.
It’s when she’s gone that things go to hell…suggesting the unit has regressed during the Sauerbrunn Era
I don’t believe that is on her! But it DOESNT seem suggestive of the theory of ‘Brunn as some sort of soccer sensei.
She seems like very good people and if the Bhathals can find something for her to do? Great! But frankly we’ve had more than enough people working here because “people like them” or “they are a legend”. If it turns out ‘Brunn really can teach? Then hire away!
don't you know, we cant have nice things..
There’s rumors of Houston and San Diego. There’s not even an indication the thorns are looking yet.
Love this.
https://x.com/NWSL/status/1838692395241918565
That's cool! It's fun to find out other talents players have besides soccer.
I object to using the baseball term dugout. There are no dugouts. I don’t think I care if you call it technical area, but please not dugout lol.
Opportunity cost. That’s the issue with Sinclair. I wouldn’t assume we wouldn’t have done as well or better had Turner started. I’m fed up with the Sinc boosters who think our into criticism of her is her age and suggest we don’t watch the matches. She’s slow. She doesn’t press. She tires more easily. She’s in the way of other players getting meaningful minutes. She needs to go away and people need to quit hero worshiping her so much. It’s weird. Just stop. Yes, she’s had an amazing career and made many contributions. At this point, it’s frustrating and embarrassing that she’s still on the team.
The Good: road point. Multiple goals without Smith. Uptick in energy. Nice buildup on Weaver goal. Sinc using her skills effectively. Hubly assist.
The Bad: Arnold - positioning, handling, judgement - Hubly defending. Turnovers. General lack of cohesion and communication (tho better than, say, against Chicago). Opponent (let’s not kid ourselves; uptick or not Orlando would have mopped the floor with us last night…)
The Ugly: Arnold (sorry, but she was that bad). Haracic (tried to throw the match with horrific turnovers several times). Long stretches of rec league-level play from both sides. Thorns SSDD lack of discipline in holding a late lead.
I’d like to think this was a step up…but the opponent and the derps make that hard to feel comfortable with. We’ll just have to wait and see.
My bad. Fixed.
After a couple of days, I find myself getting more content with a point. Yes it sucked to lose the 3 points late on, but getting a point on the road without Smith and with only 60 minutes of Weaver isn't bad. And although we still have no NWSL wins since July 5, at least the draw ended a losing streak.
It would've been big fun to see Sauerbrunn score that late shot though!
Finally; match report up: https://rivetingpdx.com/2024/09/26/thorns-fc-just-half/
I finally got to see the game. Well that was the best the Thorns have looked in weeks. Good games from Weaver, Mūller, Moultrie, Coffey, Fleming, Obaze, Sauerbrunn, Reyes and yes Sinclair(she can really pass).
The thing is Angel City is not a top of the table team. But Wow how come Sara Gorden has never made the USWNT, she is a truly excellent player. They have some talent and might be a year or two and a better keeper away from being good team.
I feel a bit more positive after that game. If the Thorns can win some winnable games between now and Smith and Sugita’s recovery, who knows.
Good article on Beckie and the trade from her perspective
https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/meaghen-johnson-janine-beckie-talks-trade-drone-controversy-and-cba-negotiations-with-canada-socce-1.2178578
That was a super interesting article to read. I’m glad it all worked out. And that she was given an option at the end of the day. She’s a great leader and I’m sure she will do great things over there. This part really stuck out to me “ I just know my role is so much bigger than scoring goals, and so that kind of feels like an added bonus when I do get to score.” I’ve criticized KK a lot but she got this move exactly right.
Nothing about Beckie's own comments suggest she's unhappy with what happened, but you have to look at the timing of this by Racing and Portland and think "They wanted to get this done before the new CBA kicked in."
seems from Beckie's wording of it, that the Thorns understood the chances were good Beckie would be gone at the end of the year, anyway, and wanted to get something in trade value for an expiring asset. That's actually LeBlanc making a good call for the longer-term future of the club - getting a possibly rising talent in Turner instead of waiting until the end of the year and getting nothing in return- AND doing the right thing by Beckie by letting her know, and getting her agreement to the deal.
That was hard for me to write :-)
It takes a big man to admit such things.
She also said in another interview that she’s feeling rejuvenated and more confident in herself now which is great to hear. She’s already made a clear impact for Racing - obviously the goal she scored was fantastic, but her work rate and diligence definitely helps them regardless, especially in closing out matches. They’re at a different stage as a club where they specifically need her skills and if they do make playoffs she’s gonna be a major part of that. It’s nice to see a player traded like this who then actually really benefits from it, even if Thorns could have handled it better.
Miss her. The energy, drive and leadership MIGHT have helped counter the post-May cratering, to some extent. Might. (And if granny had wheels she could be a go-kart.)
Anyone know anything about Smith's ankle injury? How soon is she expected back?
https://x.com/tayvincent6/status/1839867005920260440
A team spokesperson has confirmed that Sophia Smith did return to Portland to receive care and the ankle injury is a flare up of the same injury Smith battled post-2023 World Cup.
Which makes no sense because her injury last year was a knee injury. Maybe she had both an ankle and a knee injury last year.
This makes me think we won't see her much or at all this year.
Bad opponent, but interesting to me that we had more offensive output than we've had in a long time, and that came without Smith, Sugita, and Spaanstra.
Sometimes there are combinations of players who don't work well together, just like there are combinations of players who do.
Sometimes players step up when there is a void, too.
I don't know what the answers are. I still have lots of questions.
I’m going to be curious when I watch this again, but my general impression last night was that a LOT of our attack came from AC trying unsuccessfully to play out of the back and turning the ball over near their goal or in midfield. In other words, THEY generated a lot of OUR attack.
But…I have to watch again and keep track.
One of the Thorns' big issues has been holding a disciplined shape in the press. They tend to leave big gaps between lines, which allows teams to play through really easily. That was MUCH better last night: A lot of coordinated presses that lead to Obaze, Coffey, Muller, or Becky reading outballs and stepping in front. ACFC didn't help themselves, but it was much better overall on the Thorns side.
How it's going: 0-45' -
Attacks generated by pressed turnovers: 5 (minutes 9 (twice), 29, 38, 44)
Attacks generated by unforced errors: 7 (minutes 7, 8, 14, 15, 17, 20, 27)
Attacks generated by both (modest pressure + poor response): 2 (minute 16 twice)
Attacks generated by Thorns buildup w/o turnovers: 1 (minute 13)
So...kinda "porque no los dos"; the Thorns DID press effectively (I'll bet you'd find few if any of the last ten games in which the Thorns forced an opponent to turn over five to seven times in a single half) but they were also gifted a LOT of opportunities - ACFC is really poor.
Since the two Thorns goals come after the break I'll be curious to see how that goes.
Oh, and FWIW the Thorns DID leave a ton of space...but it was 1) at the top of midfield - the gap was biggest between Coffey and the forwards - and not behind Coffey and 2) ACFC didn't use it much.
Dougherty-Howard was the only AC midfielder trying to play through; everything else went up the touchlines trying to take advantage of Reyes and Muller pushing up. It worked several times (the goal and in the 43rd minute) but the Thorns generally got back to cover and Leroux wasn't effective. The one time she was - a gorgeous 4th minute run onto a D-H through ball - Obaze made a hero tackle.
Sounds about right to me- The big thing was the shape relative to how it's looked relative to the last few months, and more specifically the last few weeks, where they haven't even looked like the players new each other for the most part. In a 3-5-2, you generally want the gaps (which will inevitably be there if you're pressing at all) to be between the two 8s and the 6 instead of the the front line and the two 8s to allow the six to clean up. This is pretty good (if a bit risky), even if a better team does a better job at isolating Sam. https://www.imghippo.com/i/HLbdT1727275394.png
So yeah, not to say that they were the Orlando Pride out there.....but they went from "wow, this is the worst midfield shape of all time" to "OK, there might be something here" over the course of two weeks. Which...we'll see if it sticks at all, but was slightly encouraging.
The problem for me is that we’ve seen “slightly encouraging” before; the six-game run that earned Ken his job. Turned out to be false dawn, result of poor opponents and possibly a dead cat bounce.
So my reaction is “hmmm”. If we see it more? Especially against Orlando (even if we lose but it’s respectable…)? Then I’ll be encouraged.
I came away with a different impression - it looked to me like unforced turnovers by AC - but, again, not definitive. I’ll know better after review.
More on Sinc retirement:
https://equalizersoccer.com/2024/09/27/christine-sinclair-announces-retirement-from-professional-soccer/
https://www.tsn.ca/canadian-legend-christine-sinclair-announces-retirement-from-professional-soccer-1.2180086
"Vancouver Rise FC of the newly formed Northern Super League has teased that Sinclair may take on a role with the club, posting a photo of her with the caption "Something BIG coming soon."
""I still have the passion as that young four-year-old growing up in Burnaby, B.C., but as I hang up my playing boots, I vow to channel it in a new way. To continue growing the game I love while inspiring the next generation," Sinclair wrote."
So, I know SBNation sucks, and yet:
https://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2024/9/24/24252302/womens-soccer-writer-opening-sb-nation-all-for-xi-site-manager
It's a compensated position to be site manager for their overall WoSo coverage.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/41474053/christine-sinclair-retires-canada-star-play-season-end
ESPN's story on Sinc's announcement. Nope, she's really done.
"There was loose speculation that the 41-year-old might be tempted to play one more year in her hometown, with Canada launching a first-division women's league -- the Northern Super League -- in 2025.
"Sinclair played semiprofessionally for the Vancouver Whitecaps in the first iteration of the USL W-League in the early 2000s. The USL W-League was the highest level of women's soccer in the U.S. and Canada at the time, during the years when there was no professional league in the U.S. Vancouver won the league title in 2006.
"The Thorns will play the current iteration of the Whitecaps in downtown Vancouver's BC Place on Oct. 15 in their final group match of the inaugural Concacaf W Champions Cup.
"BC Place was the site of Sinclair's final game for Canada last year. It was temporarily renamed "Christine Sinclair Place"."
Question:
We talk about keeper distribution as being overrated.
But, we love having field players who are good on providing dead-ball service, and we think that it might be nice to have one of these players who can throw the ball a country mile (OK, maybe just into a dangerous spot within the 18).
Why is one overrated but the others seen as so important or would-be-great-to-have?
Is it just because one is part of building out while the others are part of attack? Because, to me, precise, strategic possession is important no matter where on the field it happens.
Largely because a keeper's long boots - and that's what we're really talking about when we complain about "distribution" as a keeper issue - tend to come down in a crowded midfield, and what happens then is more on the field players.
The opponent simply has too much time to mark up and dispute the outlet. There's few opportunities for a runner to get open under the long service, and if they do they're a long way from goal, giving the defenders time to get back and cover.
That's almost all goal kicks and probably 80-90% of punts.
Run-of-play clearances might be more successful if the keeper can send a low flat drive on a dime to a runner. I've seen it, and it's gorgeous when it works. But it's damn hard to time perfectly. The field players need to know when that drive is coming, meaning they and the keeper would have to practice that a LOT. Instead of other things.
So it's a question of effort versus return. Practicing that long outlet pass and run when it only pays off maybe 1-2% of the time, if that? That may not be a good use of limited practice time.
And let me be clear; "good keeper distribution" is GOOD. A keeper should be competent with the ball at her feet, which is why I don't see Bixby or Hogan as preferable to Arnold providing Arnold can start making better decisions.
But it's not "important" in a tactical context. It's highly, highly unlikely to influence match play more than fractionally. Do I want that fraction? Sure! But if I have a keeper who's significantly better against the shot and in the air, would I prefer one who's poorer there but better in distribution? Ohhellno. The first one will prevent losses while the other is unlikely to help secure wins more than a minuscule degree.
“But it's not "important" in a tactical context. It's highly, highly unlikely to influence match play more than fractionally.”
I’m not sure that’s entirely true when all the top clubs in Europe, both men’s and women’s, have almost exclusively switched to a model where their keepers are elite with the ball at their feet.
It’s why, for example, I think Hayes is going to look to move on from Naeher. She moved on from Berger for Hampton because Hampton has better distribution.
Again; if your choices are "solid technical keeper who passes well" or "solid technical keeper who passes poorly" you go with Door #1 every time.
If your choices are "solid technical keeper whose passing is meh" or "keeper with technical issues who passes well" your shooting yourself in the foot if you go with Door #2, simply because conceding a saveable goal is vastly more likely to drop you points than a keeper assist will gain them.
Modern keepers - as you point out - are trained to play the ball out. But I'll bet you all the money in your pocket against all the money in mine that if Hampton's PSxG-GA/90m was significantly lower than Berger's? Hampton would still be slogging through losses at Villa...
Keeping (heh) local, our boys take on very different personas depending on whether the Keeper du Jour is a blaster or a roller-outer. Effectiveness of either approach depends in part on the opponent and whether they're good at collecting 50:50 balls. If not, then the offence is off and running well past midfield (keepers all have cannons for legs). Building from the back works much better on nights they're losing that battle in the middle.
Generally prefer the rollout and build from the back and while not knowing stats on the Thorns, my eye tells me they're not good at acquiring and controlling keeper blasts in the midfield.
How much is it affected by keeper communications with her squad?
What REALLY matters when you have a ball playing keeper is whether your CBs are equally good on the ball. Obaze and Becky are not only both technically skilled, but excellent passers: League-wide, Obaze is first and Becky is third in overall pass completion percentage......which, while not the most important statistic, is relevant when you consider Hubly, who gets the most minutes of any of them, is nearly 9% worse.
(I don't think keeper distribution is overrated fwiw- I think it's hugely important)
I think the problem folks have with Arnold specifically is that outside of the Spirit game, we haven't seen her pull off a bunch of crazy saves. So, when she makes handling errors like she did on the second goal yesterday, many feel that the distribution part (which has been an undeniable pro) doesn't adequately balance out the perceived lack of prevented goals. What some people might fail to remember are the (at least) three different occasions this year Hogan's sloppy distribution lead directly to goals, and that's not to mention how dreadful Bella's was last season. Add in the fatigue over new GKs and the fact that KK marketed her as this huge international signing, and I think that's where the angst sets in.
Arnold's better distribution makes her *more comfortable* on the ball, too, which I think affects the other players. Things just seem calmer in back with Arnold there. I sure wish she were a better shot-stopper though. That second ACFC goal, where Arnold put the ball a yard in front of the goal line, was mostly on Arnold.
It's not just handling. She's been making really poor decisions - against Chicago, in LA - and her positioning has been suspect.
Until she corrects those, her distribution won't help much more than they did against Chicago or ACFC. As I noted in my comment above; to have any real attacking effect requires a combination of practice and coincidence that is difficult to justify in returns.
Now...I agree; a keeper can't be actively POOR in getting the ball out into play. Bixby made some real howlers, and Hogan isn't great, either.
But Arnold's technical failings have cost goals and points. It's hard to point to her distribution, better as it is, as counterbalancing that.
You're being wildly harsh. I can't believe she's getting even partially blamed for the Chicago goal which was entirely on Liv, and she hasn't really made another major error outside of last weekend's.....which was, admittedly, a *very bad and very costly mistake*. I just went back and watched all the goals the Thorns have conceded with her in net to make sure I wasn't missing something....and I wasn't! If I'm really getting nitpicky, she probably could have done better with the third Bay goal, but even that one is right in the corner and her view is obstructed. Hell, she was one of the main reasons they were so close to a point in DC!
If you want data proof --with the obvious sample size and keeper data limitation caveats-- here are her 2024 Thorns metrics next to Hogan's: https://www.imghippo.com/i/yaHha1727407543.png
Her shot stopping value added (which was the most concerning issue from her West Ham days) has been --somewhat surprisingly to me-- excellent for Portland, whereas Hogan's had been dreadful. Her pass completion %, defensive actions, and cross claiming metrics are all much better. She's just been an objectively better keeper pretty much across the board!
I'd also argue that the primary value of a technically adept keeper in possession is less what it adds to the attack, and more the comfort it gives the defense. It's noticeable how much more the defenders trust her on the ball, and you can see that pretty clearly in the raw touches data relative to Hogan and Bixby. Though yes, she'd be adding a lot more value going forward if the Thorns were more cohesive in their buildup.
I hadn't seen her metrics here (her game numbers were too low) since the BayFC loss, when Arnold’s average post-shot xG-against minus goals-against per 90 minutes was -0.18 to Hogan’s -0.14.
Now? Her numbers against the shot are +0.57 per 90m; that's better than any keeper we've had since Franch. Given that her issues are WAY less of an "issue" and I retract 90% of my condemnation.
That said...she DOES have judgement issues (or training issues) that make her job harder. She made a bad decision to come way out after the Moultrie backpass; it took away her chance to try and make a 1v0 stop by tangling her up with Hubly. She didn't make good choices in LA, and had some technical goofs against BFC.
And I'd like to see a clean sheet before talking about this "defensive comfort" kimosabe. Our defense is STILL leaking goals. When we whip Orlando 3-nil? Let's talk.