I'm not a fan of 3/5 backs in general, but for whatever reason, a team that looked completely clueless for the better part of three months suddenly looked confident in possession for much of the match last night. I'd highlight a few key areas:
- Muller: She's so damn good when she gets to roam wherever she wants and playing as a wingback really freed her to do so. Unbelievable motor.
- The added width seemed to pull ACFC midfielders wide and give Coffey, Fleming, and Moultrie a little more room to operate. Moultrie played one of her best games as a Thorn- I've been very critical of her work rate as of late, but it was MUCH better last night. She's a player who needs to be engaged to be even remotely effective and playing her as a true ten (whoda thunk!) seemed to really activate her.
- Obaze and Becky's ball skills are so noticeable in a three back, but they also accentuate Hubly's lack thereof. Find a third ballplaying CB and things probably start to improve. I know she got the assist, but she's now *directly* cost this team two goals (and probably 3-4 points) with absolutely mind-numbing individual errors.
- Weaver is realllly important. Made Sinc's propensity to drop in much more effective when the threat is there in behind. Everything kinda went to shit as soon as she was taken off and they lost the outlet. Good reminder of both how much Gale has killed the team by playing without any pace up front and how much we've missed both Soph and Weaver- There are plenty of other issues, but you simply cannot get away with the lack of frontline pace the Thorns have played with for a majority of the season.
- I'd also like to highlight Reyna, who is getting better and better every game. She's not without her flaws, but she's turned into an absolutely ELITE 1v1 defender.
About Reyes, I beg to differ. I'll admit that when I heard that she'd been on the Mexico Women's Nation Team I had much higher expectations. But I also didn't know that she was so young; so lacking in professional experience.
While you may not like 3-5-2 (I've been 4-3-3 adherent most of my life), I think Reyes in the middle 5 is the best position for her. She is in no weigh an elite defender. But as an outside member of that group of 5 midfielders she has both Coffee and the 3 center backs to cover for the frequency that she's out of position in the line of 4 in a 4-3-3 when we don't have possession.
This is factually incorrect. Reyes is, quite literally, the single best FB 1v1 in the entire league in terms of both percentage of dribblers tackled and aerial duels won. In other words, she doesn’t get beat 1v1. She’s not without her flaws — she lacks pace, isn’t always in position— hence why I didn’t call her an elite defender overall, but she is absolutely an elite 1v1 defender.
In the narrow case. Not good enough in my opinion. I am always looking at the whole case. At this time, best as one of the five in the midfield where she can use her skill going forward as she gets up to speed at being a complete defender in a 4 back lineup. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Lol It's not really a matter of agreeing to disagree. I stated she was an elite 1v1 defender and provided the metrics that prove it. Quite literally, when an attacker tries to beat her 1v1, that attacker is less likely to be successful against Reyna than against *any other fullback in the entire league.* That is a fact, not an opinion.
Again, not arguing that she's close to being a perfect player or even a perfect defender, but when we're talking 1v1, she's at an extremely high level.
I have seen those stats, basically number of tackles. What I am puzzling is that why the entire USWNT back line players have fewer tackles. Do they intercept passes more often so they don't have to tackle as much? Is their positioning better so they don't have to tackle as much? Number of tackles just doesn't seem to be worth much.
No, it's not basically the number of tackles, it's the *percentage of dribblers tackled*. Using percentage means we're looking at the success rate instead of just the raw counting metrics because yes, you're right: the number of tackles doesn't mean anything on it's own and often just shows which teams are defending the most.
For reference, three of the top five players in the "percentage of dribblers tackled" statistic are Naomi Girma, Abby Dahlkemper, and Tierna Davidson, which should answer your USWNT question. Also on that list are Sarah Gorden and Abby Erceg. Reyes is 9th overall, but the best FB.
Twila Kilgore has officially stepped down from USWNT duties and apparently has a NWSL job lined up. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HAVE IT BE THE THORNS END THE PAIN.
I’m all for a change…but Kilgore is practically a black hole. Her only extended stint was UC Davis, where her winning % was about 60%. Not a death mark, but not a ringing endorsement, either.
I guess I’d like to see a more thorough HC search than the last three, or a “she’s not Ken!” bar to clear…
Who would be a very good GM get? I’d love Parsons to reconsider and give it a try. His skill has always been people management and identifying players that fit within his “system”. If he can parlay that to other more skilled coaches , he could be a net positive and he brings credibility to an org that frankly lacks it.
I still think I’d hire Becky in whatever role she wanted.
Parsons is 1) a good roster builder who is also 2) kind of high on his own coaching supply and would likely be very difficult for anyone but a really strong-willed HC to work with. IF I thought Parsons would stay in his GM lane I'd be less concerned. I don't think he's accepted that matchday management isn't a particular strength of his. Would he be an improvement on the current GM? Ohhellyes. Do I have confidence that the Bhathals would be able to run him and a HC in harness the way he and GW ran under Paulson? Ohhellno.
Given the state of our backline and defense in general, what on earth would suggest that Sauerbrunn has anything to impart as a defensive coach? Clearly Vytas doesn't, but for all that she seems very thoughtful and bright Brunn's current coworkers don't look like she's teaching them anything.
It doesn’t? Hubly isn’t particularly adept, but I’d argue that most of the players who have played with her have played at a higher level than before they played with her outside of Menges
But that's the thing: until she destroyed her teammates' trust with that stupid affair, Menges was the field leader in the back, and she was damn good at it. 'Brunn is more of a locker room leader, I'd say (and likely a great one, although that's not something an outsider to the team can really ever know). A lot of the Thorns' defensive problems for a while now lie in lack of on-pitch coordination (and someone to keep an eye on Hubly's focus).
There's no one filling that role in teh back right now...and I see no likely candidate to start. This is the main reason I've been advocating for a "big news" CB signing.
The defense has given up crap goals regularly for this entire season, and last season conceded more than anyone else above the red line (and all but two below). I'd argue that 1)as individuals, no, not particularly (name one who has. Nally? Kuikka? Reyes? Not seeing it...), and 2) as a unit the Thorns have not been an outstanding defensive unit since 2021.
That's not a higher level of anything.
Brunn seems like a bright, thoughtful, decent human being. But I'm not seeing anything more.
You do realize she’s been on the team for four years? I believe Kling has played considerably better with Becky behind her after looking washed. I’d also argue that Muller/Sauerbrunn has been far from a problem this year.
I’d love to keep Becky in the org. Team leader lauded and highly intelligent. That’s better than what’s currently in leadership roles.
Umm…yes, and that actually argues against the case you seem to think it makes.
Because as David points out, Emily Menges was here, too. And unsurprisingly to me the problem in the backline seems to begin first as Menges struggled with injury and then chose to fuck around and found out.
It’s when she’s gone that things go to hell…suggesting the unit has regressed during the Sauerbrunn Era
I don’t believe that is on her! But it DOESNT seem suggestive of the theory of ‘Brunn as some sort of soccer sensei.
She seems like very good people and if the Bhathals can find something for her to do? Great! But frankly we’ve had more than enough people working here because “people like them” or “they are a legend”. If it turns out ‘Brunn really can teach? Then hire away!
I object to using the baseball term dugout. There are no dugouts. I don’t think I care if you call it technical area, but please not dugout lol.
Opportunity cost. That’s the issue with Sinclair. I wouldn’t assume we wouldn’t have done as well or better had Turner started. I’m fed up with the Sinc boosters who think our into criticism of her is her age and suggest we don’t watch the matches. She’s slow. She doesn’t press. She tires more easily. She’s in the way of other players getting meaningful minutes. She needs to go away and people need to quit hero worshiping her so much. It’s weird. Just stop. Yes, she’s had an amazing career and made many contributions. At this point, it’s frustrating and embarrassing that she’s still on the team.
The Good: road point. Multiple goals without Smith. Uptick in energy. Nice buildup on Weaver goal. Sinc using her skills effectively. Hubly assist.
The Bad: Arnold - positioning, handling, judgement - Hubly defending. Turnovers. General lack of cohesion and communication (tho better than, say, against Chicago). Opponent (let’s not kid ourselves; uptick or not Orlando would have mopped the floor with us last night…)
The Ugly: Arnold (sorry, but she was that bad). Haracic (tried to throw the match with horrific turnovers several times). Long stretches of rec league-level play from both sides. Thorns SSDD lack of discipline in holding a late lead.
I’d like to think this was a step up…but the opponent and the derps make that hard to feel comfortable with. We’ll just have to wait and see.
After a couple of days, I find myself getting more content with a point. Yes it sucked to lose the 3 points late on, but getting a point on the road without Smith and with only 60 minutes of Weaver isn't bad. And although we still have no NWSL wins since July 5, at least the draw ended a losing streak.
It would've been big fun to see Sauerbrunn score that late shot though!
I finally got to see the game. Well that was the best the Thorns have looked in weeks. Good games from Weaver, Mūller, Moultrie, Coffey, Fleming, Obaze, Sauerbrunn, Reyes and yes Sinclair(she can really pass).
The thing is Angel City is not a top of the table team. But Wow how come Sara Gorden has never made the USWNT, she is a truly excellent player. They have some talent and might be a year or two and a better keeper away from being good team.
I feel a bit more positive after that game. If the Thorns can win some winnable games between now and Smith and Sugita’s recovery, who knows.
That was a super interesting article to read. I’m glad it all worked out. And that she was given an option at the end of the day. She’s a great leader and I’m sure she will do great things over there. This part really stuck out to me “ I just know my role is so much bigger than scoring goals, and so that kind of feels like an added bonus when I do get to score.” I’ve criticized KK a lot but she got this move exactly right.
Nothing about Beckie's own comments suggest she's unhappy with what happened, but you have to look at the timing of this by Racing and Portland and think "They wanted to get this done before the new CBA kicked in."
seems from Beckie's wording of it, that the Thorns understood the chances were good Beckie would be gone at the end of the year, anyway, and wanted to get something in trade value for an expiring asset. That's actually LeBlanc making a good call for the longer-term future of the club - getting a possibly rising talent in Turner instead of waiting until the end of the year and getting nothing in return- AND doing the right thing by Beckie by letting her know, and getting her agreement to the deal.
She also said in another interview that she’s feeling rejuvenated and more confident in herself now which is great to hear. She’s already made a clear impact for Racing - obviously the goal she scored was fantastic, but her work rate and diligence definitely helps them regardless, especially in closing out matches. They’re at a different stage as a club where they specifically need her skills and if they do make playoffs she’s gonna be a major part of that. It’s nice to see a player traded like this who then actually really benefits from it, even if Thorns could have handled it better.
Miss her. The energy, drive and leadership MIGHT have helped counter the post-May cratering, to some extent. Might. (And if granny had wheels she could be a go-kart.)
Bad opponent, but interesting to me that we had more offensive output than we've had in a long time, and that came without Smith, Sugita, and Spaanstra.
Sometimes there are combinations of players who don't work well together, just like there are combinations of players who do.
Sometimes players step up when there is a void, too.
I don't know what the answers are. I still have lots of questions.
I’m going to be curious when I watch this again, but my general impression last night was that a LOT of our attack came from AC trying unsuccessfully to play out of the back and turning the ball over near their goal or in midfield. In other words, THEY generated a lot of OUR attack.
One of the Thorns' big issues has been holding a disciplined shape in the press. They tend to leave big gaps between lines, which allows teams to play through really easily. That was MUCH better last night: A lot of coordinated presses that lead to Obaze, Coffey, Muller, or Becky reading outballs and stepping in front. ACFC didn't help themselves, but it was much better overall on the Thorns side.
Attacks generated by both (modest pressure + poor response): 2 (minute 16 twice)
Attacks generated by Thorns buildup w/o turnovers: 1 (minute 13)
So...kinda "porque no los dos"; the Thorns DID press effectively (I'll bet you'd find few if any of the last ten games in which the Thorns forced an opponent to turn over five to seven times in a single half) but they were also gifted a LOT of opportunities - ACFC is really poor.
Since the two Thorns goals come after the break I'll be curious to see how that goes.
Oh, and FWIW the Thorns DID leave a ton of space...but it was 1) at the top of midfield - the gap was biggest between Coffey and the forwards - and not behind Coffey and 2) ACFC didn't use it much.
Dougherty-Howard was the only AC midfielder trying to play through; everything else went up the touchlines trying to take advantage of Reyes and Muller pushing up. It worked several times (the goal and in the 43rd minute) but the Thorns generally got back to cover and Leroux wasn't effective. The one time she was - a gorgeous 4th minute run onto a D-H through ball - Obaze made a hero tackle.
Sounds about right to me- The big thing was the shape relative to how it's looked relative to the last few months, and more specifically the last few weeks, where they haven't even looked like the players new each other for the most part. In a 3-5-2, you generally want the gaps (which will inevitably be there if you're pressing at all) to be between the two 8s and the 6 instead of the the front line and the two 8s to allow the six to clean up. This is pretty good (if a bit risky), even if a better team does a better job at isolating Sam. https://www.imghippo.com/i/HLbdT1727275394.png
So yeah, not to say that they were the Orlando Pride out there.....but they went from "wow, this is the worst midfield shape of all time" to "OK, there might be something here" over the course of two weeks. Which...we'll see if it sticks at all, but was slightly encouraging.
The problem for me is that we’ve seen “slightly encouraging” before; the six-game run that earned Ken his job. Turned out to be false dawn, result of poor opponents and possibly a dead cat bounce.
So my reaction is “hmmm”. If we see it more? Especially against Orlando (even if we lose but it’s respectable…)? Then I’ll be encouraged.
We talk about keeper distribution as being overrated.
But, we love having field players who are good on providing dead-ball service, and we think that it might be nice to have one of these players who can throw the ball a country mile (OK, maybe just into a dangerous spot within the 18).
Why is one overrated but the others seen as so important or would-be-great-to-have?
Is it just because one is part of building out while the others are part of attack? Because, to me, precise, strategic possession is important no matter where on the field it happens.
Keeping (heh) local, our boys take on very different personas depending on whether the Keeper du Jour is a blaster or a roller-outer. Effectiveness of either approach depends in part on the opponent and whether they're good at collecting 50:50 balls. If not, then the offence is off and running well past midfield (keepers all have cannons for legs). Building from the back works much better on nights they're losing that battle in the middle.
Generally prefer the rollout and build from the back and while not knowing stats on the Thorns, my eye tells me they're not good at acquiring and controlling keeper blasts in the midfield.
How much is it affected by keeper communications with her squad?
What REALLY matters when you have a ball playing keeper is whether your CBs are equally good on the ball. Obaze and Becky are not only both technically skilled, but excellent passers: League-wide, Obaze is first and Becky is third in overall pass completion percentage......which, while not the most important statistic, is relevant when you consider Hubly, who gets the most minutes of any of them, is nearly 9% worse.
(I don't think keeper distribution is overrated fwiw- I think it's hugely important)
I think the problem folks have with Arnold specifically is that outside of the Spirit game, her shot-stopping hasn't been particularly good....and wasn't at West Ham either if you believe in the metrics. So when she makes handling errors like she did on the second goal yesterday, many feel that the distribution part (which has been an undeniable pro) doesn't adequately balance out the lack of prevented goals. What some people might fail to remember are the (at least) three different occasions this year Hogan's sloppy distribution lead directly to goals, and that's not to mention how dreadful Bella's was last season. Add in the fatigue over new GKs and the fact that KK marketed her as this huge international signing, and I think that's where the angst sets in.
Arnold's better distribution makes her *more comfortable* on the ball, too, which I think affects the other players. Things just seem calmer in back with Arnold there. I sure wish she were a better shot-stopper though. That second ACFC goal, where Arnold put the ball a yard in front of the goal line, was mostly on Arnold.
Priestman can't coach for a year thank the lawd. We have so many contract announcements coming soon, so maybe that? I dunno...most of the one's left don't really necessitate a pre-announcement from Phuoc (I'd be fine parting with most tbh...)
Is here suspenderation from FIFA, Soccer Canada, the Maple Syrup Council...? Confess to have not paid attention to the details beyond curious where they found silent drones.
I don't mind the religious connections, but I can't imagine getting a bunch of drunks in the North End to sync up on "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
I wager we're gonna see a good few contract announcements before years end. I'd guess Spaanstra and Hubly are first in line now that Weaver's been sorted, but our long FA list also includes the geriatrics (Becky and Kling) in addition to the "who knows" McKenzie, Bixby, Hirst, Sheva, Asman, and Provenzano group.
(Of course, could also be training facility stuff as always and I sure would like to see them tie down Sam before the start of next season).
Yeah this is what I was just pondering...though I don't think any of the remaining announcements really necessitates a pre-announcement as if it'll be big news. But, yeah, Sam news would be good news!
Probably none, but without Bethune, and possibly Rodman being out with her recurring back issue, Spirit is where I'd probably place my bets. I think Sarr has been out also, but I'm unsure how serious her injury is.
Maybe Gotham next...but I think their defensive 5 is best of the bunch and if we're struggling to score, I hesitate. Weaver adds a new unknown wrinkle, though. They've already shown that their MO is foul the shit out of the dangerous players (and it's been effective against us and other teams.)
KC probably last just because I don't think our defense can handle their attacking players, even if I think their defense could be most vulnerable. They've made several changes to their backline, but there's not enough data to know how much that'll help. It's probably improved since we've played them, though.
Looking at the standings, it seems like, even if the Thorns were well-coached this year, they'd still not be one of the top 4 teams in terms of talent on the field. So maybe 5th would have been the realistic ceiling for this year's Thorns in any case? Not defending Gale, but aside from Sean Nahas in NC or Casey Stoney her first 2 yrs in San Diego, maybe not many coaches can elevate much above their talent level. Maybe with coaches, it's more about being competent enough to not make things worse.
Take Seb Hines: Marta recruited half the Brazilian NT and his front office scouted and landed maybe the world's best WoSo striker. What's Hines' contribution? Maybe it's just to 1) let the women play a style they're good at, 2) not be incompetent tactically, and 3) collect Coach of the Year awards.
If, as the best-case scenario of a "global search", the Thorns were able to hire him away from Orlando, I wonder if he could really change much, or finish higher than 5th, unless the roster was overhauled and upgraded.
An interesting question, although it still leads back to ownership/FO not seeming to go after game-changing players, even if you give them a pass on the coaching hires. Personally I find Norris's hiring defensible for the sake of continuity for a team trying to grow out of a troubled period. Gale struggles with your low bar on 1 and 2. I don't think 3 will be an issue.
I think you underrate Hines, given the Pride's ability to win games against a variety of opponent tactics.
Your point re: talent is well taken and I do think Portland's talent base isn't where it needs to be relative to the best of the league, but Hines in *not* the example for needing star talent to win: Banda has obviously been a huge part of their success, but the vast majority of the rest of their key contributors -- Marta, Angelina, Abello, McCutcheon, Yates, Sams, Strom, Moorhouse, and Doyle-- were either there for Orlando's bad days as well, not yet in the league, or languishing on the bench of another side. I'd argue that there's not another coach in the league's history who has come close to elevating talent like Hines has.
(I'd personally use Vlatko for the "talent can trump meh coaching" argument)
So, there's only 11 players who are still there since 2022. That's a lot of churn. How would you characterize, on the whole, the players whom Hines & Co. have brought in? I'd say it's less about star power, though there are stars, and more about coaching to strengths and buy-in from players.
It's always hard to divvy up the credit for success on talent vs. coaching vs. GMing, especially when they can be a package deal.... but I give Hines a majority of the non-Banda credit. I was high on Orlando preseason before they signed Banda mostly because I was super impressed with what Hines did with an even less talented roster in 2023. I also really like the players Carter has brought in and think she's good at her job, but Hines has turned the Yates/McCutcheon/Abello/Angelina/Strom group into players I didn't think they really could be, while also resurrecting Marta.
So yeah, I'd say Orlando is mostly about the team and the shape and less about the star power, especially relative to a Kansas City, for instance. It's hard to put into numbers, but when you watch Orlando play, you can see how unbelievably well-drilled they are.
"Fans are always complaining when they see Sinclair in the starting XI but in case they haven’t noticed, it is important to highlight that she was involved in both goals scored tonight."
Because Sinclair has scored all of 2 goals. Same as Abby Dahlkemper, Taylor Flint, and several others. That "several" includes many in the Thorns midfield.
We've seen this countless times now in the last 3-4 years: Thorns will play a team much worse than them (used to be more of those), with slow defenders and/or poor marking skills, and Sinclair will have a standout game. And every time, we post "Wait, Sinc looks revitalized! Maybe she;s still got a place in the starting 11", etc. Those games seem to fool Thorns coaches (who, granted, never stick around as long as we have to learn the hard way), and today's write-up writer, Melina Gaspar, just fell victim to it,, too.
Next game agaiinst a good opponent, and Sinclair will disappear again. And she'll stay disappeared for a long while, until the next time the Thorns play- say Santa Fe next week-and then the cycle will start all over again.
Sinclair has a lot of soccer left in her, if she wants to keep playing- but for her to be effective, it would need to be in the USL, or maybe the new Canadian league. Against a competent NWSL defense, she's too slow to get open, to press, etc., and too slow to get a contested shot off if she happens to get the ball at her feet near the goal.
But yeah, against Santa Fe next week, yeah, maybe she gets another brace. And then the cycle will restart. We've had this conversation probably a dozen times over the past 4-5 years.
Might I add, Sinclair doesn't seem to have either the strength to head a goal, or has no 'hops' that any opponent fears. A player could be slow but if they could be counted upon to get their head on a corner kick on a regular basis I wouldn't mind so much.
Both things are true: She was mostly good last night. She’s been mostly detrimental for the last three years, and has kept young players like Linnehan, Turner, Moultrie, and even --going back a few years-- Yaz Ryan out of the lineup. The metrics very much match the eye test.
We all watch the matches every week with our eyes. Let’s not act like there’s some anti-Sinc conspiracy.
When she has time and space, she's still effective. We saw that last night, and we've seen that in matches against clubs from Liga MX Femenil. The problem however, is that the pace of the NWSL game today is rendering her ineffective more and more often.
I agree with that - she was never super speedy and the pace of the game now is lightening fast. I'd love to see Reilyn playing more minutes - ditto Spanstra (sp?) and where is Peyton?
I'm not a fan of 3/5 backs in general, but for whatever reason, a team that looked completely clueless for the better part of three months suddenly looked confident in possession for much of the match last night. I'd highlight a few key areas:
- Muller: She's so damn good when she gets to roam wherever she wants and playing as a wingback really freed her to do so. Unbelievable motor.
- The added width seemed to pull ACFC midfielders wide and give Coffey, Fleming, and Moultrie a little more room to operate. Moultrie played one of her best games as a Thorn- I've been very critical of her work rate as of late, but it was MUCH better last night. She's a player who needs to be engaged to be even remotely effective and playing her as a true ten (whoda thunk!) seemed to really activate her.
- Obaze and Becky's ball skills are so noticeable in a three back, but they also accentuate Hubly's lack thereof. Find a third ballplaying CB and things probably start to improve. I know she got the assist, but she's now *directly* cost this team two goals (and probably 3-4 points) with absolutely mind-numbing individual errors.
- Weaver is realllly important. Made Sinc's propensity to drop in much more effective when the threat is there in behind. Everything kinda went to shit as soon as she was taken off and they lost the outlet. Good reminder of both how much Gale has killed the team by playing without any pace up front and how much we've missed both Soph and Weaver- There are plenty of other issues, but you simply cannot get away with the lack of frontline pace the Thorns have played with for a majority of the season.
- I'd also like to highlight Reyna, who is getting better and better every game. She's not without her flaws, but she's turned into an absolutely ELITE 1v1 defender.
About Reyes, I beg to differ. I'll admit that when I heard that she'd been on the Mexico Women's Nation Team I had much higher expectations. But I also didn't know that she was so young; so lacking in professional experience.
While you may not like 3-5-2 (I've been 4-3-3 adherent most of my life), I think Reyes in the middle 5 is the best position for her. She is in no weigh an elite defender. But as an outside member of that group of 5 midfielders she has both Coffee and the 3 center backs to cover for the frequency that she's out of position in the line of 4 in a 4-3-3 when we don't have possession.
This is factually incorrect. Reyes is, quite literally, the single best FB 1v1 in the entire league in terms of both percentage of dribblers tackled and aerial duels won. In other words, she doesn’t get beat 1v1. She’s not without her flaws — she lacks pace, isn’t always in position— hence why I didn’t call her an elite defender overall, but she is absolutely an elite 1v1 defender.
In the narrow case. Not good enough in my opinion. I am always looking at the whole case. At this time, best as one of the five in the midfield where she can use her skill going forward as she gets up to speed at being a complete defender in a 4 back lineup. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Lol It's not really a matter of agreeing to disagree. I stated she was an elite 1v1 defender and provided the metrics that prove it. Quite literally, when an attacker tries to beat her 1v1, that attacker is less likely to be successful against Reyna than against *any other fullback in the entire league.* That is a fact, not an opinion.
Again, not arguing that she's close to being a perfect player or even a perfect defender, but when we're talking 1v1, she's at an extremely high level.
I have seen those stats, basically number of tackles. What I am puzzling is that why the entire USWNT back line players have fewer tackles. Do they intercept passes more often so they don't have to tackle as much? Is their positioning better so they don't have to tackle as much? Number of tackles just doesn't seem to be worth much.
No, it's not basically the number of tackles, it's the *percentage of dribblers tackled*. Using percentage means we're looking at the success rate instead of just the raw counting metrics because yes, you're right: the number of tackles doesn't mean anything on it's own and often just shows which teams are defending the most.
For reference, three of the top five players in the "percentage of dribblers tackled" statistic are Naomi Girma, Abby Dahlkemper, and Tierna Davidson, which should answer your USWNT question. Also on that list are Sarah Gorden and Abby Erceg. Reyes is 9th overall, but the best FB.
Twila Kilgore has officially stepped down from USWNT duties and apparently has a NWSL job lined up. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HAVE IT BE THE THORNS END THE PAIN.
I’m all for a change…but Kilgore is practically a black hole. Her only extended stint was UC Davis, where her winning % was about 60%. Not a death mark, but not a ringing endorsement, either.
I guess I’d like to see a more thorough HC search than the last three, or a “she’s not Ken!” bar to clear…
Who would be a very good GM get? I’d love Parsons to reconsider and give it a try. His skill has always been people management and identifying players that fit within his “system”. If he can parlay that to other more skilled coaches , he could be a net positive and he brings credibility to an org that frankly lacks it.
I still think I’d hire Becky in whatever role she wanted.
Part of me wonders if Kate Markgraf gets a look
Parsons is 1) a good roster builder who is also 2) kind of high on his own coaching supply and would likely be very difficult for anyone but a really strong-willed HC to work with. IF I thought Parsons would stay in his GM lane I'd be less concerned. I don't think he's accepted that matchday management isn't a particular strength of his. Would he be an improvement on the current GM? Ohhellyes. Do I have confidence that the Bhathals would be able to run him and a HC in harness the way he and GW ran under Paulson? Ohhellno.
Given the state of our backline and defense in general, what on earth would suggest that Sauerbrunn has anything to impart as a defensive coach? Clearly Vytas doesn't, but for all that she seems very thoughtful and bright Brunn's current coworkers don't look like she's teaching them anything.
It doesn’t? Hubly isn’t particularly adept, but I’d argue that most of the players who have played with her have played at a higher level than before they played with her outside of Menges
But that's the thing: until she destroyed her teammates' trust with that stupid affair, Menges was the field leader in the back, and she was damn good at it. 'Brunn is more of a locker room leader, I'd say (and likely a great one, although that's not something an outsider to the team can really ever know). A lot of the Thorns' defensive problems for a while now lie in lack of on-pitch coordination (and someone to keep an eye on Hubly's focus).
There's no one filling that role in teh back right now...and I see no likely candidate to start. This is the main reason I've been advocating for a "big news" CB signing.
The defense has given up crap goals regularly for this entire season, and last season conceded more than anyone else above the red line (and all but two below). I'd argue that 1)as individuals, no, not particularly (name one who has. Nally? Kuikka? Reyes? Not seeing it...), and 2) as a unit the Thorns have not been an outstanding defensive unit since 2021.
That's not a higher level of anything.
Brunn seems like a bright, thoughtful, decent human being. But I'm not seeing anything more.
OK.
You do realize she’s been on the team for four years? I believe Kling has played considerably better with Becky behind her after looking washed. I’d also argue that Muller/Sauerbrunn has been far from a problem this year.
I’d love to keep Becky in the org. Team leader lauded and highly intelligent. That’s better than what’s currently in leadership roles.
Umm…yes, and that actually argues against the case you seem to think it makes.
Because as David points out, Emily Menges was here, too. And unsurprisingly to me the problem in the backline seems to begin first as Menges struggled with injury and then chose to fuck around and found out.
It’s when she’s gone that things go to hell…suggesting the unit has regressed during the Sauerbrunn Era
I don’t believe that is on her! But it DOESNT seem suggestive of the theory of ‘Brunn as some sort of soccer sensei.
She seems like very good people and if the Bhathals can find something for her to do? Great! But frankly we’ve had more than enough people working here because “people like them” or “they are a legend”. If it turns out ‘Brunn really can teach? Then hire away!
don't you know, we cant have nice things..
There’s rumors of Houston and San Diego. There’s not even an indication the thorns are looking yet.
Love this.
https://x.com/NWSL/status/1838692395241918565
That's cool! It's fun to find out other talents players have besides soccer.
I object to using the baseball term dugout. There are no dugouts. I don’t think I care if you call it technical area, but please not dugout lol.
Opportunity cost. That’s the issue with Sinclair. I wouldn’t assume we wouldn’t have done as well or better had Turner started. I’m fed up with the Sinc boosters who think our into criticism of her is her age and suggest we don’t watch the matches. She’s slow. She doesn’t press. She tires more easily. She’s in the way of other players getting meaningful minutes. She needs to go away and people need to quit hero worshiping her so much. It’s weird. Just stop. Yes, she’s had an amazing career and made many contributions. At this point, it’s frustrating and embarrassing that she’s still on the team.
The Good: road point. Multiple goals without Smith. Uptick in energy. Nice buildup on Weaver goal. Sinc using her skills effectively. Hubly assist.
The Bad: Arnold - positioning, handling, judgement - Hubly defending. Turnovers. General lack of cohesion and communication (tho better than, say, against Chicago). Opponent (let’s not kid ourselves; uptick or not Orlando would have mopped the floor with us last night…)
The Ugly: Arnold (sorry, but she was that bad). Haracic (tried to throw the match with horrific turnovers several times). Long stretches of rec league-level play from both sides. Thorns SSDD lack of discipline in holding a late lead.
I’d like to think this was a step up…but the opponent and the derps make that hard to feel comfortable with. We’ll just have to wait and see.
My bad. Fixed.
After a couple of days, I find myself getting more content with a point. Yes it sucked to lose the 3 points late on, but getting a point on the road without Smith and with only 60 minutes of Weaver isn't bad. And although we still have no NWSL wins since July 5, at least the draw ended a losing streak.
It would've been big fun to see Sauerbrunn score that late shot though!
Finally; match report up: https://rivetingpdx.com/2024/09/26/thorns-fc-just-half/
I finally got to see the game. Well that was the best the Thorns have looked in weeks. Good games from Weaver, Mūller, Moultrie, Coffey, Fleming, Obaze, Sauerbrunn, Reyes and yes Sinclair(she can really pass).
The thing is Angel City is not a top of the table team. But Wow how come Sara Gorden has never made the USWNT, she is a truly excellent player. They have some talent and might be a year or two and a better keeper away from being good team.
I feel a bit more positive after that game. If the Thorns can win some winnable games between now and Smith and Sugita’s recovery, who knows.
Good article on Beckie and the trade from her perspective
https://www.tsn.ca/soccer/meaghen-johnson-janine-beckie-talks-trade-drone-controversy-and-cba-negotiations-with-canada-socce-1.2178578
That was a super interesting article to read. I’m glad it all worked out. And that she was given an option at the end of the day. She’s a great leader and I’m sure she will do great things over there. This part really stuck out to me “ I just know my role is so much bigger than scoring goals, and so that kind of feels like an added bonus when I do get to score.” I’ve criticized KK a lot but she got this move exactly right.
Nothing about Beckie's own comments suggest she's unhappy with what happened, but you have to look at the timing of this by Racing and Portland and think "They wanted to get this done before the new CBA kicked in."
seems from Beckie's wording of it, that the Thorns understood the chances were good Beckie would be gone at the end of the year, anyway, and wanted to get something in trade value for an expiring asset. That's actually LeBlanc making a good call for the longer-term future of the club - getting a possibly rising talent in Turner instead of waiting until the end of the year and getting nothing in return- AND doing the right thing by Beckie by letting her know, and getting her agreement to the deal.
That was hard for me to write :-)
It takes a big man to admit such things.
She also said in another interview that she’s feeling rejuvenated and more confident in herself now which is great to hear. She’s already made a clear impact for Racing - obviously the goal she scored was fantastic, but her work rate and diligence definitely helps them regardless, especially in closing out matches. They’re at a different stage as a club where they specifically need her skills and if they do make playoffs she’s gonna be a major part of that. It’s nice to see a player traded like this who then actually really benefits from it, even if Thorns could have handled it better.
Miss her. The energy, drive and leadership MIGHT have helped counter the post-May cratering, to some extent. Might. (And if granny had wheels she could be a go-kart.)
Anyone know anything about Smith's ankle injury? How soon is she expected back?
Bad opponent, but interesting to me that we had more offensive output than we've had in a long time, and that came without Smith, Sugita, and Spaanstra.
Sometimes there are combinations of players who don't work well together, just like there are combinations of players who do.
Sometimes players step up when there is a void, too.
I don't know what the answers are. I still have lots of questions.
I’m going to be curious when I watch this again, but my general impression last night was that a LOT of our attack came from AC trying unsuccessfully to play out of the back and turning the ball over near their goal or in midfield. In other words, THEY generated a lot of OUR attack.
But…I have to watch again and keep track.
One of the Thorns' big issues has been holding a disciplined shape in the press. They tend to leave big gaps between lines, which allows teams to play through really easily. That was MUCH better last night: A lot of coordinated presses that lead to Obaze, Coffey, Muller, or Becky reading outballs and stepping in front. ACFC didn't help themselves, but it was much better overall on the Thorns side.
How it's going: 0-45' -
Attacks generated by pressed turnovers: 5 (minutes 9 (twice), 29, 38, 44)
Attacks generated by unforced errors: 7 (minutes 7, 8, 14, 15, 17, 20, 27)
Attacks generated by both (modest pressure + poor response): 2 (minute 16 twice)
Attacks generated by Thorns buildup w/o turnovers: 1 (minute 13)
So...kinda "porque no los dos"; the Thorns DID press effectively (I'll bet you'd find few if any of the last ten games in which the Thorns forced an opponent to turn over five to seven times in a single half) but they were also gifted a LOT of opportunities - ACFC is really poor.
Since the two Thorns goals come after the break I'll be curious to see how that goes.
Oh, and FWIW the Thorns DID leave a ton of space...but it was 1) at the top of midfield - the gap was biggest between Coffey and the forwards - and not behind Coffey and 2) ACFC didn't use it much.
Dougherty-Howard was the only AC midfielder trying to play through; everything else went up the touchlines trying to take advantage of Reyes and Muller pushing up. It worked several times (the goal and in the 43rd minute) but the Thorns generally got back to cover and Leroux wasn't effective. The one time she was - a gorgeous 4th minute run onto a D-H through ball - Obaze made a hero tackle.
Sounds about right to me- The big thing was the shape relative to how it's looked relative to the last few months, and more specifically the last few weeks, where they haven't even looked like the players new each other for the most part. In a 3-5-2, you generally want the gaps (which will inevitably be there if you're pressing at all) to be between the two 8s and the 6 instead of the the front line and the two 8s to allow the six to clean up. This is pretty good (if a bit risky), even if a better team does a better job at isolating Sam. https://www.imghippo.com/i/HLbdT1727275394.png
So yeah, not to say that they were the Orlando Pride out there.....but they went from "wow, this is the worst midfield shape of all time" to "OK, there might be something here" over the course of two weeks. Which...we'll see if it sticks at all, but was slightly encouraging.
The problem for me is that we’ve seen “slightly encouraging” before; the six-game run that earned Ken his job. Turned out to be false dawn, result of poor opponents and possibly a dead cat bounce.
So my reaction is “hmmm”. If we see it more? Especially against Orlando (even if we lose but it’s respectable…)? Then I’ll be encouraged.
I came away with a different impression - it looked to me like unforced turnovers by AC - but, again, not definitive. I’ll know better after review.
Question:
We talk about keeper distribution as being overrated.
But, we love having field players who are good on providing dead-ball service, and we think that it might be nice to have one of these players who can throw the ball a country mile (OK, maybe just into a dangerous spot within the 18).
Why is one overrated but the others seen as so important or would-be-great-to-have?
Is it just because one is part of building out while the others are part of attack? Because, to me, precise, strategic possession is important no matter where on the field it happens.
Keeping (heh) local, our boys take on very different personas depending on whether the Keeper du Jour is a blaster or a roller-outer. Effectiveness of either approach depends in part on the opponent and whether they're good at collecting 50:50 balls. If not, then the offence is off and running well past midfield (keepers all have cannons for legs). Building from the back works much better on nights they're losing that battle in the middle.
Generally prefer the rollout and build from the back and while not knowing stats on the Thorns, my eye tells me they're not good at acquiring and controlling keeper blasts in the midfield.
How much is it affected by keeper communications with her squad?
What REALLY matters when you have a ball playing keeper is whether your CBs are equally good on the ball. Obaze and Becky are not only both technically skilled, but excellent passers: League-wide, Obaze is first and Becky is third in overall pass completion percentage......which, while not the most important statistic, is relevant when you consider Hubly, who gets the most minutes of any of them, is nearly 9% worse.
(I don't think keeper distribution is overrated fwiw- I think it's hugely important)
I think the problem folks have with Arnold specifically is that outside of the Spirit game, her shot-stopping hasn't been particularly good....and wasn't at West Ham either if you believe in the metrics. So when she makes handling errors like she did on the second goal yesterday, many feel that the distribution part (which has been an undeniable pro) doesn't adequately balance out the lack of prevented goals. What some people might fail to remember are the (at least) three different occasions this year Hogan's sloppy distribution lead directly to goals, and that's not to mention how dreadful Bella's was last season. Add in the fatigue over new GKs and the fact that KK marketed her as this huge international signing, and I think that's where the angst sets in.
Arnold's better distribution makes her *more comfortable* on the ball, too, which I think affects the other players. Things just seem calmer in back with Arnold there. I sure wish she were a better shot-stopper though. That second ACFC goal, where Arnold put the ball a yard in front of the goal line, was mostly on Arnold.
https://x.com/Phuocerman/status/1839051699316801545
Hmm...
"In an unprecedented trade for the League, Gale has been traded for Priestman."
Lol...
Priestman can't coach for a year thank the lawd. We have so many contract announcements coming soon, so maybe that? I dunno...most of the one's left don't really necessitate a pre-announcement from Phuoc (I'd be fine parting with most tbh...)
Is here suspenderation from FIFA, Soccer Canada, the Maple Syrup Council...? Confess to have not paid attention to the details beyond curious where they found silent drones.
I dunno, but what's with all the WoSo managers with Churchy names?
Diacre
Precheur
Bompastor
Priestman
Parsons
Could SonofGod be far behind?
Maybe there's a coaching career in Messiah Bright's future?
How could you forget Parsons?
Bless you!
I guess I missed my calling.
You could always come back when it's time.
I don't mind the religious connections, but I can't imagine getting a bunch of drunks in the North End to sync up on "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
She’s been suspended by FIFA for a year and then also from Canada Soccer until their investigation is complete.
We're getting Corrine Diacre, aren't we?
Noooo!
Bacha or Karchaoui can come over anytime they want though.
I wager we're gonna see a good few contract announcements before years end. I'd guess Spaanstra and Hubly are first in line now that Weaver's been sorted, but our long FA list also includes the geriatrics (Becky and Kling) in addition to the "who knows" McKenzie, Bixby, Hirst, Sheva, Asman, and Provenzano group.
(Of course, could also be training facility stuff as always and I sure would like to see them tie down Sam before the start of next season).
Yeah this is what I was just pondering...though I don't think any of the remaining announcements really necessitates a pre-announcement as if it'll be big news. But, yeah, Sam news would be good news!
Yes but Phuoc loves a tease (which I respect tbh)
It's true and I respect the hype, but I need something more lol..
My guess is this will have to do with the training facility or a new GM
It's very sweet that you think there's a chance they fire KK before the end of the season (or any time before next season, frankly) :)
Who says they’d fire her. She’d be redeployed to another position based on the current path.
Or at all 😩
#1 through #4 are locked in.
#2-#4 are not yet in their particular order.
Looks like we're gonna finish somewhere in the #6-8.
Which of those opponents - KC, Gotham, Washington - would we have the best chance to beat in a one-off?
Probably none, but without Bethune, and possibly Rodman being out with her recurring back issue, Spirit is where I'd probably place my bets. I think Sarr has been out also, but I'm unsure how serious her injury is.
Maybe Gotham next...but I think their defensive 5 is best of the bunch and if we're struggling to score, I hesitate. Weaver adds a new unknown wrinkle, though. They've already shown that their MO is foul the shit out of the dangerous players (and it's been effective against us and other teams.)
KC probably last just because I don't think our defense can handle their attacking players, even if I think their defense could be most vulnerable. They've made several changes to their backline, but there's not enough data to know how much that'll help. It's probably improved since we've played them, though.
Looking at the standings, it seems like, even if the Thorns were well-coached this year, they'd still not be one of the top 4 teams in terms of talent on the field. So maybe 5th would have been the realistic ceiling for this year's Thorns in any case? Not defending Gale, but aside from Sean Nahas in NC or Casey Stoney her first 2 yrs in San Diego, maybe not many coaches can elevate much above their talent level. Maybe with coaches, it's more about being competent enough to not make things worse.
Take Seb Hines: Marta recruited half the Brazilian NT and his front office scouted and landed maybe the world's best WoSo striker. What's Hines' contribution? Maybe it's just to 1) let the women play a style they're good at, 2) not be incompetent tactically, and 3) collect Coach of the Year awards.
If, as the best-case scenario of a "global search", the Thorns were able to hire him away from Orlando, I wonder if he could really change much, or finish higher than 5th, unless the roster was overhauled and upgraded.
An interesting question, although it still leads back to ownership/FO not seeming to go after game-changing players, even if you give them a pass on the coaching hires. Personally I find Norris's hiring defensible for the sake of continuity for a team trying to grow out of a troubled period. Gale struggles with your low bar on 1 and 2. I don't think 3 will be an issue.
I think you underrate Hines, given the Pride's ability to win games against a variety of opponent tactics.
Your point re: talent is well taken and I do think Portland's talent base isn't where it needs to be relative to the best of the league, but Hines in *not* the example for needing star talent to win: Banda has obviously been a huge part of their success, but the vast majority of the rest of their key contributors -- Marta, Angelina, Abello, McCutcheon, Yates, Sams, Strom, Moorhouse, and Doyle-- were either there for Orlando's bad days as well, not yet in the league, or languishing on the bench of another side. I'd argue that there's not another coach in the league's history who has come close to elevating talent like Hines has.
(I'd personally use Vlatko for the "talent can trump meh coaching" argument)
So, there's only 11 players who are still there since 2022. That's a lot of churn. How would you characterize, on the whole, the players whom Hines & Co. have brought in? I'd say it's less about star power, though there are stars, and more about coaching to strengths and buy-in from players.
It's always hard to divvy up the credit for success on talent vs. coaching vs. GMing, especially when they can be a package deal.... but I give Hines a majority of the non-Banda credit. I was high on Orlando preseason before they signed Banda mostly because I was super impressed with what Hines did with an even less talented roster in 2023. I also really like the players Carter has brought in and think she's good at her job, but Hines has turned the Yates/McCutcheon/Abello/Angelina/Strom group into players I didn't think they really could be, while also resurrecting Marta.
So yeah, I'd say Orlando is mostly about the team and the shape and less about the star power, especially relative to a Kansas City, for instance. It's hard to put into numbers, but when you watch Orlando play, you can see how unbelievably well-drilled they are.
Washington if any.
Answer: None.
"Fans are always complaining when they see Sinclair in the starting XI but in case they haven’t noticed, it is important to highlight that she was involved in both goals scored tonight."
Because Sinclair has scored all of 2 goals. Same as Abby Dahlkemper, Taylor Flint, and several others. That "several" includes many in the Thorns midfield.
We've seen this countless times now in the last 3-4 years: Thorns will play a team much worse than them (used to be more of those), with slow defenders and/or poor marking skills, and Sinclair will have a standout game. And every time, we post "Wait, Sinc looks revitalized! Maybe she;s still got a place in the starting 11", etc. Those games seem to fool Thorns coaches (who, granted, never stick around as long as we have to learn the hard way), and today's write-up writer, Melina Gaspar, just fell victim to it,, too.
Next game agaiinst a good opponent, and Sinclair will disappear again. And she'll stay disappeared for a long while, until the next time the Thorns play- say Santa Fe next week-and then the cycle will start all over again.
Sinclair has a lot of soccer left in her, if she wants to keep playing- but for her to be effective, it would need to be in the USL, or maybe the new Canadian league. Against a competent NWSL defense, she's too slow to get open, to press, etc., and too slow to get a contested shot off if she happens to get the ball at her feet near the goal.
But yeah, against Santa Fe next week, yeah, maybe she gets another brace. And then the cycle will restart. We've had this conversation probably a dozen times over the past 4-5 years.
Might I add, Sinclair doesn't seem to have either the strength to head a goal, or has no 'hops' that any opponent fears. A player could be slow but if they could be counted upon to get their head on a corner kick on a regular basis I wouldn't mind so much.
Both things are true: She was mostly good last night. She’s been mostly detrimental for the last three years, and has kept young players like Linnehan, Turner, Moultrie, and even --going back a few years-- Yaz Ryan out of the lineup. The metrics very much match the eye test.
We all watch the matches every week with our eyes. Let’s not act like there’s some anti-Sinc conspiracy.
When she has time and space, she's still effective. We saw that last night, and we've seen that in matches against clubs from Liga MX Femenil. The problem however, is that the pace of the NWSL game today is rendering her ineffective more and more often.
I agree with that - she was never super speedy and the pace of the game now is lightening fast. I'd love to see Reilyn playing more minutes - ditto Spanstra (sp?) and where is Peyton?
Against an opponent that allows her time and space, Sinclair is still pretty great. Unfortunately, good teams don't do that.
Because Sinc is a forward. Expectations are that forwards score goals.
Sinc's goals per 90 minutes is 0.21. Reilyn Turner is 0.41.