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Welp! Honestly think we should just get big $$$ for her and work on bulking up our defense. What's the point of having her out on loan for 2+ years? Just let her go!

https://twitter.com/womenstransfer/status/1661120160676151304

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Yes, we should demand a big fee. We know they have the money. None of this, "It's what the player wants" nonsense, if the player wanted to go, don't sign the extension 18 months ago.

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May 23, 2023·edited May 23, 2023

Well, we probably are getting big $$$ for her. We're getting reimbursed what we were paying her, which is then going toward other players.

If she's staying past her loan, that's either extending her loan or it's a transfer. In either case, we're getting $$$ back for her.

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I’d like to see a buyout followed by an extensions. Take her salary and extend Crystal Dunn as soon as the buyout is complete. Take the buyout number and extend Hina. Then look to upgrade the roster.

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I’m not sure what you mean by buyout, but we definitely don’t want to “buy out” her contract in the traditional sense of that term. If she’s not committed to coming back next season, they need to sell her ASAP so that they can use that fee to bring in other players.

They’re already not paying her salary, so whether or not they sell her shouldn’t have an impact on future extensions for other players unless they really believe she’s coming back....which seems slightly naive at this point.

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Sell her rights to OL.

They should have a salary allocation tied to her contract for the next few years. They can now allocate that to Dunn as far as I’m concerned. The selling of rights will lead to incremental allocation money, which allows them to go over the cap.

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I wasn't expecting her to come back. She seemed to have lost interest and couldn't find the motivation for consistent performances

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If anybody would know about coming back or not coming back, it would be you, JChrist.

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Reminded of the old Kevin Nealon bit....

"Interested...Interested...Interested...Very interested....Very, very interested....Suddenly lost interest."

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I've said it before about OL Kang, and I'll say it again: "Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."

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Well crap. Basically what everyone predicted but this kind of puts a stamp on the thing.

Grumble, grumble.

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Would be nice if we got something in return, like maybe a player on loan from there also. Give us a defender. Very curious if Kang has had any input on these decisions for OL.....I don't trust mega-rich people..

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"I don't trust mega-rich people."

Repeated for truth. :-(

Do not ruin this league, Rich People.

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When in human history have rich people ever ruined anything?

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Hopefully they just sell her? I hate hate hate the idea of not getting value for her, but I think it’s quite possible.

And yeah, Kang is absolutely smart enough not to help the Thorns out. The NWSL doesn’t have the infrastructure to handle a motivated owner with feet in two league and Kang is absolutely savvy enough to take advantage of it.

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Also- I find it vaguely amusing that Rifer/Clarke (and plenty of other NWSL media members) were acting like Horan was coming back when this was always the most likely outcome

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Lol yeah, as soon as we even had smoke about her possibly leaving I figured she would eventually, and then when she did "on loan", I assumed we'd never see her again.

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Would not be surprised to see a full transfer of her rights to Lyon and then later see her back in the NWSL on loan at the Spirit in 2025 or 2026 lol. Esp with MarPar there....

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That would be my preferred outcome, as much as I would hate to see her on another NWSL team. She’ll be 30+ by that point with even more miles on those knees.

I don’t like the idea of being an affiliate club either, fwiw. Good for Washington and this is a little crotchety, but I kinda want our players to have a real relationship with the club rather than use the NWSL as a way to stay fit in the off-season.

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Oh I agree 100%. I don't wanna be a farm team for any other league who just wants a 50-player roster to pick from and professes to be "the best in the world" when it's really just a 2-team league. It's not my style and I don't think it's the Portland community's style either.

When there was talk of her leaving on loan, I thought then they should just transfer her fully. At that point, we were losing her and Salem, and things appeared precarious in Portland at that time...my thought was that we would need immediate reinforcements.

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founding

How about trade her for Renard, straight across? Renard is sitting out WWC, so could have a vacation and then be a Thorn.

(Look! In the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's a pig)

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I don't think Renard is sitting out WC anymore since the HC change. I'm like 85% sure she was back in the latest camp for France. Would love to have Carpenter back for a full swap, but she seems happy abroad. If we can't get one of their defenders (or maybe a winger), then KK, just take the money and run!

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Wendy's still a force to be reckoned with...but she's also 32 years old and not going to be improving our defensive speed any. Straight swap for Buchannan or Bathy? Or sell Lindsey on and splash out the transfer fee to poach Minami from Roma.

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Buchannan plays for Chelsea now and Mbock Bathy is injured. If we're doing fantasy swaps with Lyon, I'd take Selma Bacha, even if we already have a ton of left backs.

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Well, hardly a surprise. And yeah, they better not just be extending her loan so she can hang out in France until the end of her contract while the Thorns get no value back.

This is where the lack of an experienced GM and a lame duck owner is exceedingly frustrating.

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May 23, 2023·edited May 23, 2023

Yeah, I'm not sure if her value will ever be higher. OL want her now...get that big $$$, plus that transfer fee! We already have a ton of top midfielders and could really use a top quality long-term CB (or two, or maybe a FB.)

Also, I mean, if us plebs down here in message board land can figure it out, I can't imagine why KK wouldn't be able to. But you're right....will they make these kinds of decisions now, with new ownership imminent? They also need to consider the expansion draft. It would be crazy to use one of those few expansion protection slots for a player on loan who we may never see again.

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If Lyon want her, they should have to buy her, full stop. The Thorns should also know things like “does Lindsey want to come back to Portland before her contract ends” because if not.....anything less than a sale is value loss. It’s like subsidizing an Ex with their new partner a year after you broke up hoping that they might come back in two years when they leave their France phase!

The Thorns have an obligation to not let Horan (who is free to do what she wants) string the franchise along for two more years because there are decisions (expansion drafts, player investments, etc) where her status might play a role in the decision making.

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Lol exxxactly. With all the changes Lyon will go through in the next year, I'll bet they'll pay big money for the players who wanna stay currently. They're already losing a lot of big names. Who knows what will happen in a year....she may be worth half if they find a cheaper option later. She's a starter now, and (side-eyeing that knee) we don't know how long that will be for...

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String along the franchise? She's on a loan that the Thorns made, and the Thorns still own her rights through 2025. Horan isn't a free agent. The Thorns will get a major return on investment, and Horan gets to play where she wants to be.

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May 24, 2023·edited May 24, 2023

They made the loan happen to retain her rights while honoring her desire to play elsewhere. Regardless, I’m not blaming her- It’s on the Thorns to communicate with her and either sell her or gain assurance that she plans on coming back next season.

But until then, it doesn’t do the Thorns any good to loan her out until her contact ends, thereby losing out on what I have to assume would be a pretty hefty transfer fee. I have no idea what her intent is, but the Thorns either need to make a decision to sell her or be very confident she'll be in PDX for 2024. So no, she’s not *intentionally* stringing the franchise along, but that is the ultimate result of going year by year. There's no ROI unless they sell her before her contract ends, and the fee gets progressively smaller the closer we get to the end of her contract.

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What do folks reckon all this means?

"The French coach also confirms the exit of Henry, Macario, Cayman, Brunn and Holmgren.

"Discussions are underway with Marozsan and Le Sommer."

https://twitter.com/atafball/status/1661124780496683013

Are Henry (out injured), Marozsan and Le Sommer all in play? I feel like a kid in a macaron store. Marozsan in a Thorns midfield? Zut alors!

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Well, Maro is done playing internationally. Haven't heard one way or another about her club career.

Le Sommer is part of the trio, along with Horan and someone else, that OL Kang made recently and that Lindsey's got up at the top of her Twitter. So I'd be surprised if Eugenie is going anywhere.

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Henry has been rumored to be going to Angel City. Can't see Marozsan or Le Sommer coming back to NWSL. They had their American adventure with the Reign.

I've wondered if the Horan loan situation was partially constructed that way to prevent OL from loaning her back to the Reign. Grabbing a transfer fee at this stage is the logical thing to do, and at least if the OL Kang path exists, Horan isn't going to play for our biggest rivals.

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Can I just say that I love that we're starting to refer to them as OL Kang?

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Tier One (Excellent): Blank

Tier Two (Probably Good but also fraud watch): Gotham, Washington, Thorns, Wave, Reign

Tier Three (Might Be Good): North Carolina, Racing, Angel City, Orlando

Tier Four (We Suck): Houston, Kansas City, Chicago

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https://twitter.com/atafball/status/1661766112206368768?s=20

Holy crap! This is in incredible coup for Orlando if true- A legit star CB from one of the top 5-10 teams in Europe in her late prime. Whatever appeal they’ve cultivated with Brazilian players seems to be paying off.

(I’m also an Arsenal fan, so I’m a little biased- But she was unquestionably one of Arsenal’s best players this year)

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Maybe they can bump attendance to SIX thousand (yes, I'm cynical). Good get, though.

I never heard of Caroline Weir but holy cow, is this ever a fine first touch.

https://twitter.com/MenInBlazers/status/1661744363062566912?cxt=HHwWgIDRvbTs2Y8uAAAA

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Yeah, it's a real bummer. Unfortunately the weather in London wasn't really her speed, and Orlando obviously has a large Brazilian community...

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Apparently she scored 44 goals for Ole Miss in college? Totally forgot she was an NWSL draftee originally

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Can't wait for Friday. TCOB on the road, in their house. Let's do this!

My you-crazy-guy recommendation is putting Izzy in to mark Kornieck on set pieces. IDK who else, Kel?

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You mean Kel who left her unmarked for a free header in the the semifinal game last year? I think not. Somebody tall would be good but somebody who can stick tight on Kornieck, especially on set pieces, and body her away from spots where she feels comfortable is what we need. Unfortunately, not sure we have such a player.

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I think Weaver is the only one in the starting lineup that could have any hope of keeping Kornieck off her spot and have the height to battle in the air. But if Kornieck gets to her spot we are pretty much screwed. Betfort might as well but that aint happenin

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Hoping we don't get a full game with Kornieck. She subbed in at the 87th minute last game, so I'm guessing not.

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https://twitter.com/jennatonelli/status/1661356390772817925?s=20

I know “strategic partnerships” are becoming relatively par for the course, but if the Thorns signed a “preference agreement” allowing *any* European team (let alone a mediocre one like Benfica) to poach their players you’d have to dig me out of the grave I’d just dug for myself.

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I am of mixed mind. I believe that Anson Dorrance's advice to players to "marinade in soccer" is very wise, and there's nothing wrong with having pathways for doing so. But I do see that this agreement appears to tip toward Benefica, not toward Gotham, and not be equal. I see imbalanced "strategic partnership," the reality of heavy expansion between 2022 and 2026, and the introduction of the USL Superleague, and I think we are facing a dilution of product in top-level American WoSo.

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I guess I fundamentally don’t like the idea of forming relationships with other clubs that can involve a player transfer policy of any sort. It’s slightly more palatable than something like the City Group umbrella ownership mode or what Kang seems to be starting with OL, but I’d prefer clubs put the money into their own facilities, coaches, scouts, and player development.

That Benfica seems to have a locked in upper hand in this partnership just doesn’t make sense. While it’s nice that these major European clubs are starting to put more money into their women’s teams, Gotham’s squad would beat Benfica now, and the idea that they’re willingly establishing a partnership that appears to give another club the ability to poach their players doesn’t sit right with me.

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Wow, real power move [quickly Googles WTF is SL Benfica]. Is this the backest of doors through which to recruit Brazilians?

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Seems like it could benefit the NWSL teams too. Transfers and loans could come our way as well

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Let’s tap into that Spanish talent pool

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Depends on how you classify benefit- I think the NWSL should have higher aspirations than becoming a feeder league for big European clubs wanting somewhere to stash their talent in the off-season. In the case of this particular partnership, it seems heavily tilted towards Benfica anyhow. The power dynamic of Europe vs. NWSL is always gonna be skewed the other direction until the financial realities change drastically and I worry that these partnerships makes things worse, not better.

It’s also a matter of preference. I don’t want the Thorns, arguably the premier pure woso brand in the world, to have any obligation to other clubs. Would it be cool if we developed a partnership with, say, Arsenal and got to watch Katie McCabe on loan for six months? Yeah, it would be. Would it be less cool when Soph, Sam, and Hina decamped to London in two years? Also yes.

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I agree as long as the salary discrepancy is there. I think free agency is going to improve the pay for NWSL players and even those scales out though. If it doesn’t then we are doomed to be a feeder league regardless.

Out of curiosity because I haven’t researched this at all and know only what I’m reading on STF why is the partnership heavily weighted towards Benfica?

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The tweet I posted below includes the language “One of the key elements of the collaboration is the establishment of a preference agreement, enabling Benfica to identify and recruit talented players from Gotham FC to play in Europe.”

Regardless, most of these type agreements will inherently benefit the European clubs more simply because of the finances and the fact that the NWSL calendar is different from all of Europe’s.

I don’t necessarily agree that the NWSL is doomed to become a feeder league regardless- Unless the USWNT talent pool decreases, there will always be a significant player base that wants to play in the states. It’s up to the league and it’s flagship clubs to leverage that into higher revenue streams.

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Ahhh. I see. I gotta believe that the recruiting of players goes in both directions. If it doesn’t I agree with you. What benefit would a NWSL team have?

One note - I did say if the salaries don’t balance out we’re doomed blah,blah, blah regardless. Of course I’m talking about the high end salaries. With free agency I believe we’re going to see those high end salaries keep rising, we’re going to keep most or many of the top players and hopefully keep attracting more players from Canada, Mexico, S America, Europe, and Japan.

I’m afraid if PDX stands pat, and other teams are all signing these agreements we will miss out on the best partnerships. I don’t know..... change....I fear change (Garth voice?

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You watch -- we sign one of these agreements and lose the next five Olivia Moultrie's in exchange for five Sarah Bouhaddi's.

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I think player flow probably will go both directions to a certain extent, but will always benefit the bigger, more financially-able club more. I worry this will manifest in the big transfers being almost exclusively outbound while the NWSL will mostly see short term keep-their-fitness-up type loans in the mold of ELS/Bouhaddi/Maroszan. Big names coming to play in the US doesn’t really equate to a net benefit for the league- Stable clubs with players who will be there over time is much more sustainable.

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Catarina Macario has ruled herself out for the World Cup. Her absence significantly reduces our chances of winning it all, as does Mallory Swanson's. Though with all the WoSo injuries around the world, it seems like every team is suffering.

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Thats a bummer about Macario. I haven't seen her play much, but she looked really good when she did. I really feel bad for Swanson, as she was really playing well. But this is the beneft of having the bench that we have, the depth is amazing and there are players who can step into that role.

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Does that list of injury-hit teams include Sweden? I can't remember hearing of any Swedish players going down.... Maybe this will be their year. They've "very good" for a long time without ever winning anything.

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Hanna Glas is still out. Hurtig and Ilestadt were injured earlier this year, but have returned to play for club. I think Asllani might be injured? According to FotMob she hasn't played for Milan since March.

Germany is pretty healthy right now and very good. I think Brazil is healthy though they tend to vary between excellent performances and defensive collapses. But otherwise it seems like all the top teams are missing at least 1-2 key players.

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