Schrödinger's Match: as long as I didn't tune in to find out, Thorns simultaneously won lost and drew yesterday, and the match both happened and didn't happen. I'd like to keep it that way.
This is exactly what I said to my husband before watching the replay of the US v. Sweden game Sunday morning. Even though he knew the result, he let me keep my hope alive till the very end.
Ugh. First 120 minutes of watching the USWNT not score, then 90 more of watching the Thorns not score. I didn't expect much from this game, given the stakes involved (none), and it lived up to expectations. Can't wait to (a) have meaningful games and (b) get our national-team players back.
I hope the club is able to make a full reset and come back in pissed off and ready to win something.
I say that because the Thorns who haven't been here are sitting on a big ol pile of disappointment, and the Thorns who have been here have been disappointing.
It's probably going to be challenging to hold in for a top spot, and it wouldn't take much to go sliding out of the playoff picture.
Only 2 point separate #1-#5 on the table, #6 is 5 points from the top, and #6-#12 are separated by just 6 points.
The return is tough, win or lose. The 2015 and 2019 internationals were gutted; even the US players were pretty useless for much of the late summer and fall, and Sinc fell off the table.
I’m curious to see if Norris has a clue how to deal with all this. My initial guess is no; he’s just an assistant who’s desperately trying to dog-paddle thru stormy water. The chance that the team founders? Way non-zero…
My "final" conclusion on the end of CC and end of WWC for most Thorns is that we didn't really learn much except that Betfort is ready to sub on for Weaver or Smith, Moultie especially and Coffey too need better players around them, and Hogan looks like she's going to be good #2 (possibly a real #1).
We already knew about Vasconcelos (reliable depth) and Reyes (she too is going to be good).
D'Aquila just looks lost out there, and Porter seems to have a heavy touch and imprecise passing.
Everybody else, if they're not playing much or at all during CC, or they just got called in as replacements, well, nuff said.
I suppose it's possible that Hubs, Kuikka, Menges, and Kling didn't give everything they had to give all the time (I'm being generous in some cases), but I think at least half of the backline needs to change for 2024.
I'd like to see the backline reworked, too. I think Menges has some good soccer left in her, and while it's taken her longer than expected to shake the rust off, that _has_ been happening. Kling held off Father Time longer than I gave her credit for, but her play has become a bit erratic and she gets gassed sooner than I've ever seen her do. I'm not sure how to get peak Kuikka back... And as I've said, previously, I just don't think Hubly's ceiling is as high as it needs to be. Ideally, she's third on teh CB depth chart.
If Japan win it all (or even go to the final), there's probably no way we can pry Minami loose from Roma, but Rion Ishikawa's someone to look at (and only 20). Of course I might selfishly prefer she stay at Beleza, a team I'm more likely to be able to watch going forward! lol...
Definitely not the long-term back line strategy, but have we gotten any recent timelines for Becky's return? Last I saw about a week ago was that she was doing intensive ball work alone at Thorns practice.
From WC watching, Ashleigh Plumptre of Nigeria might not be a bad option at CB. Previously played for USC in college and Leicester and is out of contract. Has played pretty well this tournament.
She's a good one, for sure. I wonder if she has an interest in playing over here?
Ishikawa started the first game for Japan, played well, but then only returned to the gameday roster v Norway. I suspect she picked up a knock. I consider her a likely prospect because she's brought up in that system and thus can be expected to be excellent in terms of technique, is young (just turned 20), and pretty tall (5'8").
I would want to see Betfort against better opposition before I pronounce her ready to sub in for Weaver or Smith, but her improvement has been impressive. Sadly, D'Aquila, who looked so promising in pre-season, is nowhere near ready for prime time. I still like her energy and aggressive attitude, but she has a lot of work to do.
Yeah, I'm of similar mind with Betfort. She has a good chaotic energy, but I've only been able to see her channel it once in a CC match against a hapless as hell San Diego...how many had they lost in a row? 7? 8? 11? It was one of those....It's still a huge step down from Soph, and in the event of injury we need someone more capable, especially for a coach who is unable to change tactics for the players available. Laura Harvey was able to stumble upon Elyse Bennett for nothing when KC was trying to make room for all the internationals they bought (but had no plan for.) I'd love to see at least someone of her quality end up here. Betfort was much better on the wing, so I'd be fine with her as a late sub for Hina or Weaver, but I would never consider protecting her in the expansion draft.
I bet --sadly considering the magnitude of the game-- that we don't have Soph and Dunn for NCC on the 20th. Aside from the physical toll of 4 WC games in two weeks, I'd give them some time for mental recovery. Hina certainly won't be back!
Which means....Rocky and Sinc! Yay! I'll be happy with a point given NCC will be at full strength with Kerolin back (and mad, I'm sure).
I saw Kerolin was back in Brazil a few days ago (a story on her IG), where she mentioned being happy to be back home for family time and a reset for a few weeks. Not sure if she'll be back by the 20th, it'll be cutting it close if so, and she'll likely be coming in without a ton of training with the team. As for the Thorns, Phuoc asked Norris about the Nats for this game. His response: https://twitter.com/Phuocerman/status/1688590769580621825?s=20
Basically, Sinc and Rocky yes. Dunn and Soph, prob unlikely.
Soph looked destroyed after the game, sobbing and being consoled by multiple teammates. She's gonna need a mental break for sure. Although, too much time off could make you feel worse. Some players may cope best by getting back into things quickly with the team they're comfortable with. Hard to say, and probably very individual.
I'd rather just hope that she's enjoying a nice Brazilian summer with some family and friends before she decides to come back. ::) Update: as of today, she's still in Brazil. Debinha, on the other hand, has been back in KC for several days now...wouldn't be surprised if their toxic FO required she come back asap.
She was marketed as *the* star, had a great first game, and then.....kinda sucked while getting played out of position and missing a would-be game winning PK. Rapinoe is taking the brunt of the abuse, but I can't imagine how Soph must feel. I imagine having Horan/KoH/Rapinoe/Dunn helped a little.
Anyhow, there's very few things in the world I'm as confident in than that she's gonna come back with a vengeance, whenever that is. I would guess --and hope-- she'd take at least two weeks.
Yeah, just coming from being a former striker/winger myself NOT at the highest level...scoring is what we DO, so I know she'll be feeling not just like she let the team down, but let herself down in her role as well. She'll be questioning her own abilities. There are definitely things that she needs to work on, regardless of playing out of position, but that was the main problem to start. Not being set up to play how you play best is a confidence-killer, especially such a young player. She had a rough tournament, and worth mentioning, I think she also suffered with Mal's late withdrawal due to injury. Mal played on the left in the lead-up, and Soph mostly on the right. Even then, only Mal looked like she was positioned correctly.
The front line just looked so wrong the whole tournament, and it started with injuries, but ultimately ended with bad coaching and use of players. I mean, Alex Morgan didn't get any goals AND missed a PK while playing as a striker. It was all just a perfect shitstorm for the whole team. I hope Soph takes as much time away as she needs....go spend some time in the sun in AZ with her partner. She needs a vacation type of reset. With how this WC has played out so far and the amount of players returning early, the end of this season feels like such a crapshoot.
That's a very good insight: a forward is expected to score, and even stupidly played out of position, I'm sure Sophia was expecting to contribute more. Then to miss that pk when she's usually so reliable from the spot surely has her in a terrible place mentally. She seems resilient in that aspect, but if it takes some time, that's fine.
I was a decidedly non-elite centerback, so I never had any pressure to score (and y'know what? I didn't!). It was _letting_ people score that put me in a bad headspace. If I just flat-out got beat by a better player that was one thing; you just tip your hat to them and try to learn from it. But if it was a screw-up on my part that shouldn't have happened, it really ate at me.
That she's such a good penalty taker would make it even more of a blow, too. But Soph seems to have a lot of mental toughness baked into her character. I'm guessing she puts this behind her pretty quickly and completely. I mean...she's a striker,* and strikers have short memories!
* Something someone should have told Vlatko, btw...
I think her confidence probably wasn't high after a rough tournament thus far, and if you don't have that unwavering, almost arrogant belief in yourself....the moment could definitely become much too big.
Watching others miss might really get to you too. Sinc and Morgan were soft and right at keeper, so power through it and keep it away from the keeper... and you've got yourself a moon shot!
I mean, having PINOE miss her PK right before you take your own shot (to win the game and not be eliminated in a WC) had to reeeally make it difficult. If I was a young striker coming into taking a PK at a WC after my confidence was already rocked a bit throughout...and then PINOE misses her PK right before me?! That pressure is immense. My belief would have been shaken, no matter how many times I'd done it already. PINOE! I've literally never seen her miss a PK, and I've seen her take boatloads.
Personally, I figure if anything it might make me not put a full leg behind it as Pinoe obviously had. Yet, just as obviously, that's not what Lil Smitty did!
If I am Smith, I imagine that going through my head I'm thinking...
Sinc and Morgan delivered soft kicks right at the keeper earlier in the tournament
But Pinoe went right before me and hoisted another airball (the PK equivalent of the in-match moonshot that made Horan laugh -- oh, those were simpler times!)
I really, really, really don't want to miss!
BOY this adrenaline rush sure isn't helping anything!
Yeah, according to FB Ref, Pinoe has missed one PK in the NWSL (2018). So 13/14 in NWSL. Don't know about before that. Internationally, she had never missed before, was 6/6. She's the GOAT of PKs.
I don't think she has ever missed a professional PK. But this Pinoe is not 2019 Pinoe. She is still a good player, but in this World Cup she hasn't been good.
Absolutely. I missed a PK in a big game and, although it didn't affect the outcome ultimately, I never forgot that feeling. And that wasn't a pro career on the biggest stage! My stomach just turned for her in that moment watching that...ugh.
She played a bit against Japan. Didn't look great, but did a couple of nice things. Then again, nobody's looking great against Japan. Holy hell, if you could instill Japan's tactics and technique in the US's physicality, every match would be the WoSo equivalent of Globetrotters vs Generals.
She played 30 against Japan for her first minutes back, but looked very hesitant to engage physically and didn't do a whole lot. Not really the Rocky we know. I didn't see her second game against...I think Zambia? It's been a few weeks since then, so hopefully her strength and confidence is improving. Just my opinion...but I'm not confident she'll be in great starting shape. I'd take Rocky over Porter regardless of fitness.
Probably worth stopping to ponder the perspicacity of the thirty-year-old diatribes that the old Soccer America eds used to write complaining about how the American soccer “development” system -coaching and playing - was punitively dependent on AYSO and the NCAA, both of which lacked tactical and technical sophistication and depended on tireless pace and physicality. The development system has improved…but how much? The NCAA is a big player at USSF. So is AYSO. How likely are the classic teams to be to start mining the urban youth programs for the American Messi?
It took thirty years…but I suspect that’s finally catching up with the US, as much or more with the coaching than the players. Andonovski was one of the best managers in the NWSL…but international competition exposed his lack of tactical nous. Who do we have that’s better? Harvey?
I don't remember what year it was that KCFC played the NWSL Final against Seattle Reign at Providence Park, but Andonovski totally dominated that tactical battle. I think Harvey is a great identifier of talent and assembles great rosters, bur she rarely seems to get the best out of them.
Andonovski had some bad luck in the form of injuries, but he also squandered what team-building time he had on experiments. Then once the tournament started I think he felt he had to stick with his initial roster so the players could get *some* minutes together. I think the big essential he lacked was the ability to create a *team* in the short periods when he had his players together. That's not such a problem for a club coach.
I feel like Vlatko laid out guidelines for how players earn a spot on his roster, and then proceeded to disregard them. "Your club form is important" but Rapinoe is not only on the squad but on the pitch and looking even worse than at OLR. Rose "Zero minutes played in 12 months" Lavelle is on the squad and starting. Julie "Let me break a few ankles for 30 days" Ertz is on the squad and plays every minute, out of position.
Based on NWSL play, who is the best 9 in the league? Is it Alex Morgan, playing right wing for San Diego (5 goals, 4 assists) or Sophia Smith playing central striker for the Thorns (10 goals, 5 assists)?
One player he did bring in based on NWSL form, DeMelo, was a very high-risk selection for the bench. But to then start her was totally reckless. Meanwhile proven producers like Sanchez and Mewis sit.
It looks to me as a combination of (1) sticking with your old horses, whilst simultaneously (2) throwing ponies out there randomly in hopes that one is suddenly a racehorse. He ended up with a plodding team with little creativity. Nobody should be too surprised - all the lead-up games were the same.
The man is neither stupid nor blind. My guess is that he may suffer from analysis-paralysis and just can't make simple decisions and stick with them. If he did that for the six months pre-tournament, he should know what changes needed to be made, in time to make them. Changing everything every game is not going to provide meaningful data.
The tactical barrenness is what surprised me. Vlatko routinely out-tacticked other NWSL coaches; Parsons and Riley (spit!) we’re the exceptions, and Parsons got his start in England (as did Harvey). Andonovski was among the elite of US-developed coaches but his tenure with the WNT has been relentlessly pedestrian. That has kind of shocked me.
But who do you hire who’s got international experience?
I agree with this. I've been very confused at how different club Vlatko and NT Vlatko have been. Even with respect to the injuries, club Vlatko was always good at taking a roster the outside saw as mediocre and getting results. Thinking specifically of how no one thought FCKC would do well in 2013 and that injury-ridden 2019 Reign season where they still made the playoffs.
I do wonder how much support Andonovski had to make the transition to international level. There was a major staffing change between 2019 and 2020 - all the assistant coaches, Dawn Scott, some of the other performance staff, team coordinator (Molly Downtain) - they all left too. The position of GM was created and filled by Kate Markgraf who hadn't done that before. Some of that makes sense that the new manager would bring in their own staff, but there had been continuity in some of those roles since 2009 despite other coaching changes. Who was prepping Vlatko on what to expect for a major tournament? And when the Olympics went so poorly, why did it feel like nothing changed except having younger players?
There seems to be no international analogue to NCAA and so most of the promising young players enroll here, seemingly at one of the top 35 or so soccer schools (Henderson will likely have data and such).
Teens going directly pro remains fraught.
It is interesting how many NWSL clubs and the USWNT rely on coaches from overseas, leading one to ponder the quality stateside coaching development infrastructure.
Clubs in both UEFA and CONMEBOL routinely sign young kids to development contracts. Not sure how the systems there compare to those here in the US, but I’d guess at least better integrated. The AYSO-NCAA-pro route here seems like a real crapshoot in terms of coaching. For every Clive Charles there’s gotta be some cluck whose knowledge base comes from watching videos.
FWIW…go back thru the sports press for the takes on Jill Ellis’ group stage runs in both ‘15 and ‘19 and I think you’d be surprised how similar the opinions on her player and tactics selections were to this year…
i mean the biggest difference is for players between 18-22 in the US the goal is to win. For players 18-22 in UEFA, playing at the academy level, the goal is to develop as footballers.
Yeah, that's pretty huge, and not just the U-20's/U-23's. A classic coach who loses isn't a classic coach very long, just like a college coach who produces great technical players but goes 8-8 every season is gonna be walking the streets pretty soon.
That's kind of the point of the academy system; it take the "win-today" pressure off. But it also requires a ton of money that doesn't produce money in return, and in a semi-niche-sport like soccer here in the US, that's a big ask for backers.
Just as I bring up the whole teen-to-pro thing, I get this email.
"Today, Republic FC announced Da’vian Kimbrough, a member of the club’s youth development academy, has signed his first professional contract making him eligible to compete for the club’s first team. In signing his first professional contract, Da’vian is the youngest professional athlete in American team sports history (13 years, 5 months, 13 days). "Kimbrough will be eligible for selection ahead of Saturday’s match against Birmingham Legion FC at Protective Stadium."
It was definitely a challenge to continue watching. After a while I just started focusing completely on individual players on whom I wanted to make a "final" assessment before the regulars and regular season return.
Yeah...mostly what I came away with was "we're a Sam Coffey injury away from being totally screwed" lol. Gotta get a better backup 6, it's so painful to watch Porter out there. Just about as painful as watching Sinclair, if you knew nothing about her former self...
Porter seems to have taken a step back this year. I remember her being better in limited minutes last year.
My sense is that Betfort's success will depend dramatically on what's available around her. I'd like to see her get 15-20 minutes regularly with the starting quality players before I come to a next conclusion. Her movement is right, Her ideas are right. She has tools. But in a "weakest link" sport, I think she's one of those players who needs to be the weakest link rather than have several weaker links around her and behind her.
These Heath/Press shows have been great. How they manage to criticize Vlatko without ever mentioning him by name has been masterful. And their guests have been very good, especially Jess Fishlock.
Just got Heather Davis's Annual Member renewal email. Here are the goods:
"Looking ahead to 2024, we remain committed to a smooth transition to new ownership. We look forward to working with the new owners to maintain the operational excellence that the Thorns have always been known for and to continue to deliver a world-class fan experience to Thorns fans at Providence Park. The Timbers and Thorns will continue to work together to create a positive and lasting impact in our community as well."
"All accounts wishing to keep their seats for 2024 will need to renew by 7 p.m. on Friday, September 15, 2023."
I have to admit I was tabbed out of that browser window doing other stuff a lot more than I was actually watching. Nothing remotely engaging about that match...
Phuoc what has happened to Tegan McGrady, is she injured, not practicing well? What little I saw of her last year she seemed to be good, not great but good. she was the 7th pick in the 2019 draft and got one appearance for the USWNT in 2018. If they at least played her she might be good expansion trade bait.
Yeah, no idea what happened there. I thought they had brought her on to be Kling's replacement and then she's just been riding pine and they drafted Reyes ahead of her. Kinda weird.
Then again, our GM is out of town doing a side hustle, so...
The DavidK riots of 2023... I'm here for that content!
OT: My friend is on one of those citizen review boards for PPB. He sent me a report they commissioned about how much non-protesting Portlandenders were exposed to in the 2020 protests because he wanted to know what I thought because of technical expertise that I have. It was fucking wild! 2000 times the allowed levels like a mile away from the protests. Enough CS gas to be used for crowd control on the *east* side of the Willamette and likely enough CS going into the Willamette to affect fish populations.
I'll have to get my rioting act together quickly, though. One creaky old ex-CB rioting in Sapporo, Japan (after mid-September) might not have much of an effect on the FO!
That's eye-opening news about the CS exposure. By 2020, I had moved from the stadium neighborhood to a place out in Brentwood-Darlington, so I was a long way from all that.
They brought her entirely to accommodate Po's wish to be in SD with Westphal, not as the LB-in-waiting. Sucks she's getting no time, but we have much better options, even during the WC.
Squad player, behind Reyes on the depth chart, plus is supposed to be strongly left-footed so not adaptable as a RB. No real advantage to giving her minutes, is there? Unless Kling is cratering, and while she’s off form I wouldn’t call it cratering yet…
https://twitter.com/TobinHeath/status/1688660435976048640?s=20
Always loved Aslani- This is great.
The entire interview is on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp0a8a7LJOU&t=1148s
Would yesterday's Thorns match would have been more exciting if watched on Peacock Telemundo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjp1Zrvn8VQ
NWSL long before dark.
Think that was the first Thorns game in years I simply had no interest in watching
I put it on immediately after watching a replay of the Sweden/USA game. Many hours lost to some unfortunate footy lol.
My match report: This was a thing that assuredly happened.
Schrödinger's Match: as long as I didn't tune in to find out, Thorns simultaneously won lost and drew yesterday, and the match both happened and didn't happen. I'd like to keep it that way.
This is exactly what I said to my husband before watching the replay of the US v. Sweden game Sunday morning. Even though he knew the result, he let me keep my hope alive till the very end.
One of the saddest truisms in life: You watched it, you can't unwatch it.
Ugh. First 120 minutes of watching the USWNT not score, then 90 more of watching the Thorns not score. I didn't expect much from this game, given the stakes involved (none), and it lived up to expectations. Can't wait to (a) have meaningful games and (b) get our national-team players back.
I hope the club is able to make a full reset and come back in pissed off and ready to win something.
I say that because the Thorns who haven't been here are sitting on a big ol pile of disappointment, and the Thorns who have been here have been disappointing.
It's probably going to be challenging to hold in for a top spot, and it wouldn't take much to go sliding out of the playoff picture.
Only 2 point separate #1-#5 on the table, #6 is 5 points from the top, and #6-#12 are separated by just 6 points.
The return is tough, win or lose. The 2015 and 2019 internationals were gutted; even the US players were pretty useless for much of the late summer and fall, and Sinc fell off the table.
I’m curious to see if Norris has a clue how to deal with all this. My initial guess is no; he’s just an assistant who’s desperately trying to dog-paddle thru stormy water. The chance that the team founders? Way non-zero…
I am guessing you're right.
My "final" conclusion on the end of CC and end of WWC for most Thorns is that we didn't really learn much except that Betfort is ready to sub on for Weaver or Smith, Moultie especially and Coffey too need better players around them, and Hogan looks like she's going to be good #2 (possibly a real #1).
We already knew about Vasconcelos (reliable depth) and Reyes (she too is going to be good).
D'Aquila just looks lost out there, and Porter seems to have a heavy touch and imprecise passing.
Everybody else, if they're not playing much or at all during CC, or they just got called in as replacements, well, nuff said.
I suppose it's possible that Hubs, Kuikka, Menges, and Kling didn't give everything they had to give all the time (I'm being generous in some cases), but I think at least half of the backline needs to change for 2024.
I'd like to see the backline reworked, too. I think Menges has some good soccer left in her, and while it's taken her longer than expected to shake the rust off, that _has_ been happening. Kling held off Father Time longer than I gave her credit for, but her play has become a bit erratic and she gets gassed sooner than I've ever seen her do. I'm not sure how to get peak Kuikka back... And as I've said, previously, I just don't think Hubly's ceiling is as high as it needs to be. Ideally, she's third on teh CB depth chart.
If Japan win it all (or even go to the final), there's probably no way we can pry Minami loose from Roma, but Rion Ishikawa's someone to look at (and only 20). Of course I might selfishly prefer she stay at Beleza, a team I'm more likely to be able to watch going forward! lol...
Definitely not the long-term back line strategy, but have we gotten any recent timelines for Becky's return? Last I saw about a week ago was that she was doing intensive ball work alone at Thorns practice.
From WC watching, Ashleigh Plumptre of Nigeria might not be a bad option at CB. Previously played for USC in college and Leicester and is out of contract. Has played pretty well this tournament.
Think Plumptre is going to have plenty of offers not least because she's left footed and that's a scarcity.
She's a good one, for sure. I wonder if she has an interest in playing over here?
Ishikawa started the first game for Japan, played well, but then only returned to the gameday roster v Norway. I suspect she picked up a knock. I consider her a likely prospect because she's brought up in that system and thus can be expected to be excellent in terms of technique, is young (just turned 20), and pretty tall (5'8").
Name had been nagging me and looking her up I realized she'd played at USC, '16-19.
Qualifies playing for Nigeria on account of her granddad, despite having been born in Leicester. Just your typical soccering journey.
I would want to see Betfort against better opposition before I pronounce her ready to sub in for Weaver or Smith, but her improvement has been impressive. Sadly, D'Aquila, who looked so promising in pre-season, is nowhere near ready for prime time. I still like her energy and aggressive attitude, but she has a lot of work to do.
Yeah, I'm of similar mind with Betfort. She has a good chaotic energy, but I've only been able to see her channel it once in a CC match against a hapless as hell San Diego...how many had they lost in a row? 7? 8? 11? It was one of those....It's still a huge step down from Soph, and in the event of injury we need someone more capable, especially for a coach who is unable to change tactics for the players available. Laura Harvey was able to stumble upon Elyse Bennett for nothing when KC was trying to make room for all the internationals they bought (but had no plan for.) I'd love to see at least someone of her quality end up here. Betfort was much better on the wing, so I'd be fine with her as a late sub for Hina or Weaver, but I would never consider protecting her in the expansion draft.
I bet --sadly considering the magnitude of the game-- that we don't have Soph and Dunn for NCC on the 20th. Aside from the physical toll of 4 WC games in two weeks, I'd give them some time for mental recovery. Hina certainly won't be back!
Which means....Rocky and Sinc! Yay! I'll be happy with a point given NCC will be at full strength with Kerolin back (and mad, I'm sure).
(I am actually very excited to have Rocky back)
I saw Kerolin was back in Brazil a few days ago (a story on her IG), where she mentioned being happy to be back home for family time and a reset for a few weeks. Not sure if she'll be back by the 20th, it'll be cutting it close if so, and she'll likely be coming in without a ton of training with the team. As for the Thorns, Phuoc asked Norris about the Nats for this game. His response: https://twitter.com/Phuocerman/status/1688590769580621825?s=20
Basically, Sinc and Rocky yes. Dunn and Soph, prob unlikely.
Soph looked destroyed after the game, sobbing and being consoled by multiple teammates. She's gonna need a mental break for sure. Although, too much time off could make you feel worse. Some players may cope best by getting back into things quickly with the team they're comfortable with. Hard to say, and probably very individual.
Is it bad of me to hope Kerolin has visa issues until after August 20 has passed?
I'd rather just hope that she's enjoying a nice Brazilian summer with some family and friends before she decides to come back. ::) Update: as of today, she's still in Brazil. Debinha, on the other hand, has been back in KC for several days now...wouldn't be surprised if their toxic FO required she come back asap.
She was marketed as *the* star, had a great first game, and then.....kinda sucked while getting played out of position and missing a would-be game winning PK. Rapinoe is taking the brunt of the abuse, but I can't imagine how Soph must feel. I imagine having Horan/KoH/Rapinoe/Dunn helped a little.
Anyhow, there's very few things in the world I'm as confident in than that she's gonna come back with a vengeance, whenever that is. I would guess --and hope-- she'd take at least two weeks.
Yeah, just coming from being a former striker/winger myself NOT at the highest level...scoring is what we DO, so I know she'll be feeling not just like she let the team down, but let herself down in her role as well. She'll be questioning her own abilities. There are definitely things that she needs to work on, regardless of playing out of position, but that was the main problem to start. Not being set up to play how you play best is a confidence-killer, especially such a young player. She had a rough tournament, and worth mentioning, I think she also suffered with Mal's late withdrawal due to injury. Mal played on the left in the lead-up, and Soph mostly on the right. Even then, only Mal looked like she was positioned correctly.
The front line just looked so wrong the whole tournament, and it started with injuries, but ultimately ended with bad coaching and use of players. I mean, Alex Morgan didn't get any goals AND missed a PK while playing as a striker. It was all just a perfect shitstorm for the whole team. I hope Soph takes as much time away as she needs....go spend some time in the sun in AZ with her partner. She needs a vacation type of reset. With how this WC has played out so far and the amount of players returning early, the end of this season feels like such a crapshoot.
That's a very good insight: a forward is expected to score, and even stupidly played out of position, I'm sure Sophia was expecting to contribute more. Then to miss that pk when she's usually so reliable from the spot surely has her in a terrible place mentally. She seems resilient in that aspect, but if it takes some time, that's fine.
I was a decidedly non-elite centerback, so I never had any pressure to score (and y'know what? I didn't!). It was _letting_ people score that put me in a bad headspace. If I just flat-out got beat by a better player that was one thing; you just tip your hat to them and try to learn from it. But if it was a screw-up on my part that shouldn't have happened, it really ate at me.
Missing that PK had to be pretty brutal mentally…
That she's such a good penalty taker would make it even more of a blow, too. But Soph seems to have a lot of mental toughness baked into her character. I'm guessing she puts this behind her pretty quickly and completely. I mean...she's a striker,* and strikers have short memories!
* Something someone should have told Vlatko, btw...
They’re streaky, tho. Sometimes missing a sitter starts you down Yips Avenue and it takes a big turnaround to get out…
I think her confidence probably wasn't high after a rough tournament thus far, and if you don't have that unwavering, almost arrogant belief in yourself....the moment could definitely become much too big.
Watching others miss might really get to you too. Sinc and Morgan were soft and right at keeper, so power through it and keep it away from the keeper... and you've got yourself a moon shot!
I mean, having PINOE miss her PK right before you take your own shot (to win the game and not be eliminated in a WC) had to reeeally make it difficult. If I was a young striker coming into taking a PK at a WC after my confidence was already rocked a bit throughout...and then PINOE misses her PK right before me?! That pressure is immense. My belief would have been shaken, no matter how many times I'd done it already. PINOE! I've literally never seen her miss a PK, and I've seen her take boatloads.
Personally, I figure if anything it might make me not put a full leg behind it as Pinoe obviously had. Yet, just as obviously, that's not what Lil Smitty did!
If I am Smith, I imagine that going through my head I'm thinking...
Sinc and Morgan delivered soft kicks right at the keeper earlier in the tournament
But Pinoe went right before me and hoisted another airball (the PK equivalent of the in-match moonshot that made Horan laugh -- oh, those were simpler times!)
I really, really, really don't want to miss!
BOY this adrenaline rush sure isn't helping anything!
I have a chance to win this my own damn self...
and I hit a beachball!
Yeah, according to FB Ref, Pinoe has missed one PK in the NWSL (2018). So 13/14 in NWSL. Don't know about before that. Internationally, she had never missed before, was 6/6. She's the GOAT of PKs.
I don't think she has ever missed a professional PK. But this Pinoe is not 2019 Pinoe. She is still a good player, but in this World Cup she hasn't been good.
Absolutely. I missed a PK in a big game and, although it didn't affect the outcome ultimately, I never forgot that feeling. And that wasn't a pro career on the biggest stage! My stomach just turned for her in that moment watching that...ugh.
The shot of her facial reaction after missing looked like a struggle to mentally keep it together.
Did Raque see field time down under? I saw no news about Costa Rica and am in the dark about their Cup experience.
Presuming she's in game shape, she'll be a welcome addition back to the squad.
She played a bit against Japan. Didn't look great, but did a couple of nice things. Then again, nobody's looking great against Japan. Holy hell, if you could instill Japan's tactics and technique in the US's physicality, every match would be the WoSo equivalent of Globetrotters vs Generals.
Subbed on in their second game, started the third. I imagine she's good to go.
Her final game was a start, but she was nearly invisible. Her quickness was not there. I'd guess she's maybe 75% but CR were desperate.
She played 30 against Japan for her first minutes back, but looked very hesitant to engage physically and didn't do a whole lot. Not really the Rocky we know. I didn't see her second game against...I think Zambia? It's been a few weeks since then, so hopefully her strength and confidence is improving. Just my opinion...but I'm not confident she'll be in great starting shape. I'd take Rocky over Porter regardless of fitness.
Probably worth stopping to ponder the perspicacity of the thirty-year-old diatribes that the old Soccer America eds used to write complaining about how the American soccer “development” system -coaching and playing - was punitively dependent on AYSO and the NCAA, both of which lacked tactical and technical sophistication and depended on tireless pace and physicality. The development system has improved…but how much? The NCAA is a big player at USSF. So is AYSO. How likely are the classic teams to be to start mining the urban youth programs for the American Messi?
It took thirty years…but I suspect that’s finally catching up with the US, as much or more with the coaching than the players. Andonovski was one of the best managers in the NWSL…but international competition exposed his lack of tactical nous. Who do we have that’s better? Harvey?
I don't remember what year it was that KCFC played the NWSL Final against Seattle Reign at Providence Park, but Andonovski totally dominated that tactical battle. I think Harvey is a great identifier of talent and assembles great rosters, bur she rarely seems to get the best out of them.
Andonovski had some bad luck in the form of injuries, but he also squandered what team-building time he had on experiments. Then once the tournament started I think he felt he had to stick with his initial roster so the players could get *some* minutes together. I think the big essential he lacked was the ability to create a *team* in the short periods when he had his players together. That's not such a problem for a club coach.
I feel like Vlatko laid out guidelines for how players earn a spot on his roster, and then proceeded to disregard them. "Your club form is important" but Rapinoe is not only on the squad but on the pitch and looking even worse than at OLR. Rose "Zero minutes played in 12 months" Lavelle is on the squad and starting. Julie "Let me break a few ankles for 30 days" Ertz is on the squad and plays every minute, out of position.
Based on NWSL play, who is the best 9 in the league? Is it Alex Morgan, playing right wing for San Diego (5 goals, 4 assists) or Sophia Smith playing central striker for the Thorns (10 goals, 5 assists)?
One player he did bring in based on NWSL form, DeMelo, was a very high-risk selection for the bench. But to then start her was totally reckless. Meanwhile proven producers like Sanchez and Mewis sit.
It looks to me as a combination of (1) sticking with your old horses, whilst simultaneously (2) throwing ponies out there randomly in hopes that one is suddenly a racehorse. He ended up with a plodding team with little creativity. Nobody should be too surprised - all the lead-up games were the same.
The man is neither stupid nor blind. My guess is that he may suffer from analysis-paralysis and just can't make simple decisions and stick with them. If he did that for the six months pre-tournament, he should know what changes needed to be made, in time to make them. Changing everything every game is not going to provide meaningful data.
That seems highly plausible, and I wonder if there was pressure from USSF included, to give the heroes of 2015-1019 a shot at the third bijoux?
The tactical barrenness is what surprised me. Vlatko routinely out-tacticked other NWSL coaches; Parsons and Riley (spit!) we’re the exceptions, and Parsons got his start in England (as did Harvey). Andonovski was among the elite of US-developed coaches but his tenure with the WNT has been relentlessly pedestrian. That has kind of shocked me.
But who do you hire who’s got international experience?
I agree with this. I've been very confused at how different club Vlatko and NT Vlatko have been. Even with respect to the injuries, club Vlatko was always good at taking a roster the outside saw as mediocre and getting results. Thinking specifically of how no one thought FCKC would do well in 2013 and that injury-ridden 2019 Reign season where they still made the playoffs.
I do wonder how much support Andonovski had to make the transition to international level. There was a major staffing change between 2019 and 2020 - all the assistant coaches, Dawn Scott, some of the other performance staff, team coordinator (Molly Downtain) - they all left too. The position of GM was created and filled by Kate Markgraf who hadn't done that before. Some of that makes sense that the new manager would bring in their own staff, but there had been continuity in some of those roles since 2009 despite other coaching changes. Who was prepping Vlatko on what to expect for a major tournament? And when the Olympics went so poorly, why did it feel like nothing changed except having younger players?
There seems to be no international analogue to NCAA and so most of the promising young players enroll here, seemingly at one of the top 35 or so soccer schools (Henderson will likely have data and such).
Teens going directly pro remains fraught.
It is interesting how many NWSL clubs and the USWNT rely on coaches from overseas, leading one to ponder the quality stateside coaching development infrastructure.
Clubs in both UEFA and CONMEBOL routinely sign young kids to development contracts. Not sure how the systems there compare to those here in the US, but I’d guess at least better integrated. The AYSO-NCAA-pro route here seems like a real crapshoot in terms of coaching. For every Clive Charles there’s gotta be some cluck whose knowledge base comes from watching videos.
FWIW…go back thru the sports press for the takes on Jill Ellis’ group stage runs in both ‘15 and ‘19 and I think you’d be surprised how similar the opinions on her player and tactics selections were to this year…
i mean the biggest difference is for players between 18-22 in the US the goal is to win. For players 18-22 in UEFA, playing at the academy level, the goal is to develop as footballers.
Yeah, that's pretty huge, and not just the U-20's/U-23's. A classic coach who loses isn't a classic coach very long, just like a college coach who produces great technical players but goes 8-8 every season is gonna be walking the streets pretty soon.
That's kind of the point of the academy system; it take the "win-today" pressure off. But it also requires a ton of money that doesn't produce money in return, and in a semi-niche-sport like soccer here in the US, that's a big ask for backers.
Just as I bring up the whole teen-to-pro thing, I get this email.
"Today, Republic FC announced Da’vian Kimbrough, a member of the club’s youth development academy, has signed his first professional contract making him eligible to compete for the club’s first team. In signing his first professional contract, Da’vian is the youngest professional athlete in American team sports history (13 years, 5 months, 13 days). "Kimbrough will be eligible for selection ahead of Saturday’s match against Birmingham Legion FC at Protective Stadium."
Yay? Officially out of can't evens.
Wasn't Moultrie 13 when she signed with the Thorns? Not quite the same thing, but close.
She was 13 when she signed with Nike, which meant that she couldn't go NCAA. But as Rick said, she was 15 when she signed with the Thorns.
15 when she first hit the field in a match (post lawsuit), I think breaking Ellie Carpenter's record.
For a challenge cup match it sure didn't look very challenging.
It's called the "Challenge Cup" because it's challenging to watch.
It was definitely a challenge to continue watching. After a while I just started focusing completely on individual players on whom I wanted to make a "final" assessment before the regulars and regular season return.
Yeah...mostly what I came away with was "we're a Sam Coffey injury away from being totally screwed" lol. Gotta get a better backup 6, it's so painful to watch Porter out there. Just about as painful as watching Sinclair, if you knew nothing about her former self...
Porter seems to have taken a step back this year. I remember her being better in limited minutes last year.
My sense is that Betfort's success will depend dramatically on what's available around her. I'd like to see her get 15-20 minutes regularly with the starting quality players before I come to a next conclusion. Her movement is right, Her ideas are right. She has tools. But in a "weakest link" sport, I think she's one of those players who needs to be the weakest link rather than have several weaker links around her and behind her.
These Heath/Press shows have been great. How they manage to criticize Vlatko without ever mentioning him by name has been masterful. And their guests have been very good, especially Jess Fishlock.
Just got Heather Davis's Annual Member renewal email. Here are the goods:
"Looking ahead to 2024, we remain committed to a smooth transition to new ownership. We look forward to working with the new owners to maintain the operational excellence that the Thorns have always been known for and to continue to deliver a world-class fan experience to Thorns fans at Providence Park. The Timbers and Thorns will continue to work together to create a positive and lasting impact in our community as well."
"All accounts wishing to keep their seats for 2024 will need to renew by 7 p.m. on Friday, September 15, 2023."
Depends a lot on your definition of "smooth."
Can smooth ever substitute for "luxuriously languid"?
Smooth like the SMOOTH taste of Laramie Cigarettes, kids!
Not much there eh?
I have to admit I was tabbed out of that browser window doing other stuff a lot more than I was actually watching. Nothing remotely engaging about that match...
Phuoc what has happened to Tegan McGrady, is she injured, not practicing well? What little I saw of her last year she seemed to be good, not great but good. she was the 7th pick in the 2019 draft and got one appearance for the USWNT in 2018. If they at least played her she might be good expansion trade bait.
Yeah, no idea what happened there. I thought they had brought her on to be Kling's replacement and then she's just been riding pine and they drafted Reyes ahead of her. Kinda weird.
Then again, our GM is out of town doing a side hustle, so...
If Karina doesn't come back with a purse full of player business cards from the Nadeshiko, Imma riot...
Bring the Yakuza with you. That'll solve it.
The DavidK riots of 2023... I'm here for that content!
OT: My friend is on one of those citizen review boards for PPB. He sent me a report they commissioned about how much non-protesting Portlandenders were exposed to in the 2020 protests because he wanted to know what I thought because of technical expertise that I have. It was fucking wild! 2000 times the allowed levels like a mile away from the protests. Enough CS gas to be used for crowd control on the *east* side of the Willamette and likely enough CS going into the Willamette to affect fish populations.
I'll have to get my rioting act together quickly, though. One creaky old ex-CB rioting in Sapporo, Japan (after mid-September) might not have much of an effect on the FO!
That's eye-opening news about the CS exposure. By 2020, I had moved from the stadium neighborhood to a place out in Brentwood-Darlington, so I was a long way from all that.
My friend is moving from Bogotá, Colombia to Japan next week. I'm sure I can talk him into rioting with you!
They brought her entirely to accommodate Po's wish to be in SD with Westphal, not as the LB-in-waiting. Sucks she's getting no time, but we have much better options, even during the WC.
Squad player, behind Reyes on the depth chart, plus is supposed to be strongly left-footed so not adaptable as a RB. No real advantage to giving her minutes, is there? Unless Kling is cratering, and while she’s off form I wouldn’t call it cratering yet…
Yeah, especially because she's from San Jose and her family still lives there.