With the first-ever million-dollar prize pool to U.S. women's soccer, the 2023 UKG NWSL Challenge Cup will give teams an additional chance at a trophy, bragging rights, and record prize money.
Have no idea if all these players are available, but really I don't want to see anybody else out there except young players, players new to the club, and players who need minutes.
Until the Challenge Cup has some instrumental value, I want it treated as a somewhere between a scrimmage and a friendly.
Switch Reyes and Beckman and replace Provenzano (it would be so incredibly painful to watch her try to navigate central midfield) with Rocky. Otherwise yes- I have no interest in seeing Smith, Hina, Weaver, Coffey, either CB, Dunn, or Kuikka for more than 20 minutes tonight.
I kind of agree with you. But if Stoney starts any of her starting 11, Jacobson is going to run riot over anybody not named Kuikka. I hope Leon is available for this one because she could help the right side fullback with Jacobson. If Menges is available that will help too.
I bet we see at least 3-4 starters. If I had to guess, Hubly, Kuikka, Coffey, and possibly Hina. I think teams are gonna take it a little more seriously than we would like them too.
I agree. The whole point of these games are to give other players time...like Porter. Yes, we'll likely have Sam during the WC, but we're gonna want players not all of a sudden coming in cold over that period so they need time now in games that don't matter. Some positions we're just too light to not have a starter in, though (like Kuikka, because we don't have any other RB's)...although Nally has subbed in as a RB a few times this season (more in preseason) so I wouldn't be surprised to see her back there. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sinc start or get a half or so because she didn't play at all last game.
Are we gonna go full B-team? I think there's a pretty big dropoff in a few of our positions, so it could really hurt us with the varied firepower SDW has... but I don't wanna risk fatigue or injury for our starters. Menges is off the IR, so I expect to see her. Leon has been cleared to play. Could be Menges and Nally/Provenzano as the CB pairing, with Reyes on the left and either Kuikka/Nally on the right. Porter, Rocky, and either Moultrie or Sinc in M, with Leon, D'Aquila and I guess Betfort at F? I don't really see any point in starting Betfort honestly, bc she seems to only play CF and has been a black hole every time I've seen her play, and I'd much rather see D'Aquila getting those minutes at CF. Can she not try playing on the wing? She's fast...otherwise, I'd rather see Beckman, D'Aquila, and Leon up top.
Anyways, it sure will be interesting with these games. I hope he is constructing these XI's with an eye towards WC. Our defense will be pretty solid during WC with only Sauerbrunn out and Coffey will likely be here in defensive mid, so these games are kinda the only time those bench players will get healthy minutes this season. So, yeah, could go several ways here...get D'Aquila those CF minutes now! Her and Weaver will be our best chance at goals and she needs to build that confidence now.
I imagine Porter starts but I wouldn’t be surprised in Sam plays. They lean pretty heavily on her in general and she’s shown an ability to play significant minutes.
I also don’t think Norris will totally tank the CC by playing a fully rotated squad. Non-NT players that start in Portland--i.e Kelli and Sam-- usually get the brunt of the overlap minutes, which is why I mentioned them in particular.
I think my favorite aspect of a cup competition is that the second string GK can get some minutes. Hogan's been good in her few appearances for the Thorns.
I spoke with Shelby earlier this season and she's been working extremely hard. Dedicated much of her offseason to getting better in every facet of the game and training. Immense talent. Excited to show you all her feature :)
Without knowing any details, I can imagine Potter getting a little pissed off and letting it show after his team concedes 9 goals and scores only 2 in 3 matches while 9-10 players are injured and they're having to suddenly sign Croix Soto in order to have enough backs. Guessing they could probably use Lynn Williams and Elyse Bennett right about now, too.
Good luck to you, Interim HC Caroline Sjöblom. You're gonna need it, because as Micheal Ray Richardson once famously said, "The ship be sinkin'."
I’d have to imagine it’s a little deeper than that....they started poorly last season too and the injuries have been brutal so far.
Between the multiple stories regarding poor player treatment and this firing, KC’s issues could run a little deeper (i.e management level) than just the coach.
Yeah, Ella Masar (the former ast coach last season) also left after she mentioned some sort of leadership/personality disagreements with Potter. I didn't listen to the podcast episode myself, but I remember someone here did and mentioned her kinda talking about wanting to get outta there because of him.
This year's plan wasn't for a rebuild, and Potter's not that coach. He's probably been pulling his hair out over all the young players making godawful mistakes and how few of the stars they signed he's actually had any chance to work with.
Looking at how far away from competitive they are -- and let's be clear, even Orlando have been more competitive so far -- and how long it might be before they get to full strength, maybe the FO is just pulling the plug and treating this as a development year for the young players, and going with a coach whom they think will work with the young'uns?
Potter *was* that coach last year, tho- He did a fantastic job with the roughly the same caliber of players that they currently have healthy. If you’re management, you have to have perspective, and if this is a purely performance and style based it’s a bad fire. They’re bad at least in part because half their team is injured, and you don’t fire the coach that brought you to thee championship against all odds three games into the season when that’s the case.
I’d be shocked if it was purely performance-based. I’d be willing to bet good money something surfaces in the next few weeks.
Yes, they finished above their quality, and Potter deserves a lot of credit for that.
But... KC have far less quality available this year to date. Even if I don't include Bennett and I treat her as an equal trade for one of this year's top draftees, last year they had a healthy Hamilton, Edmonds, Scott, Lavogez, and Ball. This year, they're depleted, even younger, and not close to being good or competitive. The loss in Chicago was brutal.
But yes, I'm sure there's more here. The investigation around the Minniss story surely is part of it too.
Yeah and he’s also switched the formation from the more compact 3-5-2 to a 4-back even tho he doesn’t really have the players to run it....from that perspective he definitely is caught in between the “fun young team” last year and the theoretical shield challengers they were billed as coming into 2023.
Still, gotta think he’d be given some more leeway if there wasn’t something else at play.
Doesn't it feel like they tried, unsuccessfully, to flip a house here? I mean, between what Utah was by the end and the hype KC generated coming into this season, only to see where they actually are now?
If Potter's been dumped because of some sort of misconduct "issues around his leadership and employment responsibilities," then they truly are the KC Courage.
My guess is that all the teams/players would probably MUCH prefer to limit the mid-week travel. If the thorns were playing Gotham or DC they’d have to fly in midweek, practice, play, fly back and then play in Portland Saturday night.
They still have to beat the best teams to win anyhow, so I don’t really see the groupings as a massive issue. It’s really just chance that the Thorns, Reign, and SD are the three best teams, which is unfortunate....but so it goes.
Yeah, it seems unfair to be on a team on the West coast vs either of the other two regions. Especially when there's 1 mill on the line....I'm glad they're taking the best 2nd place team, but still seems to be an unbalanced way of doing things with so much money on the line.
That's what really bothers me, the format makes sense when there are 2 good teams in each group, but you have probably the best 3 teams last year and this year playing in one group.
I think it would be cool if they had to draw ping pong balls and do live draws. I think double elimination is the way to go moving forward.
This is huge money for these players and seems like having unfair groups is a bad way for some to lose out on money.
Vague corporate speak around the Potter sacking, but it sounds more like a matter of team performance than professional misconduct:
“We watch the play on the pitch, we keep a pulse on the locker room, and we are constantly evaluating ways to improve our club,” Current general manager Camille Ashton said in a statement. “Through our ongoing process of continuous improvement, we believe now is the right time for this change.”
So after careful consideration they believe the best time and place to fire the coach is game day in the opponent's city? At practice yesterday, apparently, he was the head coach; today, chopped liver.
The timing is weird, in that it happened just a few hours before the match, but it also makes sense to do it now if you believe things are heading in the wrong direction and that Potter's not the guy to turn it around (or you've just decided to take a mulligan and start developing the kids because of all the injuries). If you do it right now, you get to start implementing changes during a meaningless game instead of one that counts on the table. You get to take a look at things, then train in preparation for upcoming meaningful matches.
Also, thank you STF for splitting Thorns/Timbers news are giving us an easier way to find what we're looking for! So much better. Next/final step...fix the logo. :)
I agree. I'm hoping that fact is also taken into consideration for how Norris lines up tonight. Give us the babies! Let them work (or not.) I imagine we'll see Menges, Rocky, and Moultrie tonight though, at least. They seem to be the second choice for starting XI's in the reg season.
Oh, was she questionable? The league website has her off completely. Yeah...upset about Rocky also. She's one of my faves and I think deserves the start with Coffey and Dunn.
I do wonder whether we see the new prize money play a little bit of a role in how seriously *some* teams take the CC. I imagine the best teams would prioritize the league, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the lower tier sides really go for the challenge cup- That prize money ain’t something to scoff at for most players in this league.
It’s still shocking to me that the challenge cup is worth more than the championship and shield. I think the players will want to play, but not sure how the balance will look like.
Yeah, it's pretty insulting, actually. Why not just pay the players more and give them some rest instead of having them play in an otherwise meaningless mid-season tourney in order to hopefully pick up some extra scratch?
Ertz is on a 1-year deal, which means only through end of this season. Lots of speculation that she might hang it up after this year. Vlatko made it clear that if she wanted to be considered for USWNT then she had to be playing club somewhere. Mandy is probably a 2- or 3-year signing. Mandy will come sometime after the WWC, but Ertz will come in now.
I agree that Jacobson is going to be a key player. However, Natu is her kryptonite. If Natu is only going to play half a game one of our other fullbacks will have to step up big time.
Yeah, we are very light on experienced fullbacks (and wingers)....I def don't wanna see Reyes against Jakobsson. At least Nally? Honestly, we have no backup RB, so Natu will likely have to play some sig minutes.
Yeah, McGrady could’ve really shined in these games. I know Nally will play tonight, I’m just wondering if it’ll be at CB, or is she’s gonna have to fill in at RB. Much better suited for CB, but we don’t have a ton of options!
Here's my preferred XI for tonight:
Hogan
Reyes-Nally-Menges-Beckman
Moultrie-Porter-Provenzano
D'Aquila-Betfort-Leon
Have no idea if all these players are available, but really I don't want to see anybody else out there except young players, players new to the club, and players who need minutes.
Until the Challenge Cup has some instrumental value, I want it treated as a somewhere between a scrimmage and a friendly.
Switch Reyes and Beckman and replace Provenzano (it would be so incredibly painful to watch her try to navigate central midfield) with Rocky. Otherwise yes- I have no interest in seeing Smith, Hina, Weaver, Coffey, either CB, Dunn, or Kuikka for more than 20 minutes tonight.
I have Provenzano there because Thorns have her listed as a midfielder. Don't know why, but she is.
Me either lol cause she is very much *not* a midfielder.
I kind of agree with you. But if Stoney starts any of her starting 11, Jacobson is going to run riot over anybody not named Kuikka. I hope Leon is available for this one because she could help the right side fullback with Jacobson. If Menges is available that will help too.
I bet we see at least 3-4 starters. If I had to guess, Hubly, Kuikka, Coffey, and possibly Hina. I think teams are gonna take it a little more seriously than we would like them too.
I just don’t think you can play Sam today, she’s played almost all the minutes this season. Taylor Porter should play 75% of the game.
I agree. The whole point of these games are to give other players time...like Porter. Yes, we'll likely have Sam during the WC, but we're gonna want players not all of a sudden coming in cold over that period so they need time now in games that don't matter. Some positions we're just too light to not have a starter in, though (like Kuikka, because we don't have any other RB's)...although Nally has subbed in as a RB a few times this season (more in preseason) so I wouldn't be surprised to see her back there. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Sinc start or get a half or so because she didn't play at all last game.
Are we gonna go full B-team? I think there's a pretty big dropoff in a few of our positions, so it could really hurt us with the varied firepower SDW has... but I don't wanna risk fatigue or injury for our starters. Menges is off the IR, so I expect to see her. Leon has been cleared to play. Could be Menges and Nally/Provenzano as the CB pairing, with Reyes on the left and either Kuikka/Nally on the right. Porter, Rocky, and either Moultrie or Sinc in M, with Leon, D'Aquila and I guess Betfort at F? I don't really see any point in starting Betfort honestly, bc she seems to only play CF and has been a black hole every time I've seen her play, and I'd much rather see D'Aquila getting those minutes at CF. Can she not try playing on the wing? She's fast...otherwise, I'd rather see Beckman, D'Aquila, and Leon up top.
Anyways, it sure will be interesting with these games. I hope he is constructing these XI's with an eye towards WC. Our defense will be pretty solid during WC with only Sauerbrunn out and Coffey will likely be here in defensive mid, so these games are kinda the only time those bench players will get healthy minutes this season. So, yeah, could go several ways here...get D'Aquila those CF minutes now! Her and Weaver will be our best chance at goals and she needs to build that confidence now.
I imagine Porter starts but I wouldn’t be surprised in Sam plays. They lean pretty heavily on her in general and she’s shown an ability to play significant minutes.
I also don’t think Norris will totally tank the CC by playing a fully rotated squad. Non-NT players that start in Portland--i.e Kelli and Sam-- usually get the brunt of the overlap minutes, which is why I mentioned them in particular.
Agreed on Sam coming in towards the end. Yeah, from my time speaking with him, it seems like he’ll compromise and go half rotation and half not.
I think my favorite aspect of a cup competition is that the second string GK can get some minutes. Hogan's been good in her few appearances for the Thorns.
This is my favorite part too!
I spoke with Shelby earlier this season and she's been working extremely hard. Dedicated much of her offseason to getting better in every facet of the game and training. Immense talent. Excited to show you all her feature :)
I'm expecting (and hoping for) a pretty heavily rotated side. Saturday's match is obviously much more of a priority.
Same, too early in the season to give players extra minutes
Kizer with the brace, KC up 2-0 in 67th.
Hell, maybe they should have fired Potter at halftime of last year's Championship match???
NC outshooting ORL 12-2. Scoreboard sez ORL 1-0 NC, 80th minute.
KC 1-0 HOU halftime. Kizer is the difference here.
NY 0-0 WAS halftime. Parsons wisely sitting the biggest names.
ORL and KC might come into Sunday's match fresh off of Challenge Cup wins but also still winless on the year.
Orlando 1-1 NC draw in front of a Central Florida crowd of 3,139.
That's at least 3,000 more fans than attended yesterday's Tigers-Guardians doubleheader.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2023/04/GTY-1483148074.jpg
Did they forget to open the doors at Red Bull?
I see now why folks were so up on Madril in the draft, having herself a night.
Yates looking like a steal.
https://twitter.com/itsmeglinehan/status/1648759002963009542?s=20
Ohh lordy NWSL drama just don’t quit do it?
Without knowing any details, I can imagine Potter getting a little pissed off and letting it show after his team concedes 9 goals and scores only 2 in 3 matches while 9-10 players are injured and they're having to suddenly sign Croix Soto in order to have enough backs. Guessing they could probably use Lynn Williams and Elyse Bennett right about now, too.
Good luck to you, Interim HC Caroline Sjöblom. You're gonna need it, because as Micheal Ray Richardson once famously said, "The ship be sinkin'."
I’d have to imagine it’s a little deeper than that....they started poorly last season too and the injuries have been brutal so far.
Between the multiple stories regarding poor player treatment and this firing, KC’s issues could run a little deeper (i.e management level) than just the coach.
Remember this? I wonder if these are, or are at least part of, the "issues around his leadership and employment responsibilities."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3dOFdix43Y
I wonder if it goes differently, though, if they're 3-0-0 with +7 GD instead of 0-3-0 with -7 GD.
Yeah, Ella Masar (the former ast coach last season) also left after she mentioned some sort of leadership/personality disagreements with Potter. I didn't listen to the podcast episode myself, but I remember someone here did and mentioned her kinda talking about wanting to get outta there because of him.
That's right. I remember that now!
This year's plan wasn't for a rebuild, and Potter's not that coach. He's probably been pulling his hair out over all the young players making godawful mistakes and how few of the stars they signed he's actually had any chance to work with.
Looking at how far away from competitive they are -- and let's be clear, even Orlando have been more competitive so far -- and how long it might be before they get to full strength, maybe the FO is just pulling the plug and treating this as a development year for the young players, and going with a coach whom they think will work with the young'uns?
Potter *was* that coach last year, tho- He did a fantastic job with the roughly the same caliber of players that they currently have healthy. If you’re management, you have to have perspective, and if this is a purely performance and style based it’s a bad fire. They’re bad at least in part because half their team is injured, and you don’t fire the coach that brought you to thee championship against all odds three games into the season when that’s the case.
I’d be shocked if it was purely performance-based. I’d be willing to bet good money something surfaces in the next few weeks.
Well, sorta.
Yes, they finished above their quality, and Potter deserves a lot of credit for that.
But... KC have far less quality available this year to date. Even if I don't include Bennett and I treat her as an equal trade for one of this year's top draftees, last year they had a healthy Hamilton, Edmonds, Scott, Lavogez, and Ball. This year, they're depleted, even younger, and not close to being good or competitive. The loss in Chicago was brutal.
But yes, I'm sure there's more here. The investigation around the Minniss story surely is part of it too.
For the Chicago game they were also without Loera and Kizer.
Yeah and he’s also switched the formation from the more compact 3-5-2 to a 4-back even tho he doesn’t really have the players to run it....from that perspective he definitely is caught in between the “fun young team” last year and the theoretical shield challengers they were billed as coming into 2023.
Still, gotta think he’d be given some more leeway if there wasn’t something else at play.
Doesn't it feel like they tried, unsuccessfully, to flip a house here? I mean, between what Utah was by the end and the hype KC generated coming into this season, only to see where they actually are now?
If Potter's been dumped because of some sort of misconduct "issues around his leadership and employment responsibilities," then they truly are the KC Courage.
As The Boss put it 35+ years ago...
"We've given each other some hard lessons lately
But we ain't learnin'
We're the same sad story that's a fact
One step up and two steps back"
Group of Death indeed. I get why it's this way, to reduce travel - but 3 of the 4 best teams in NWSL are in the same group!
Yeah, there has got to be some compromise on this. Why not just do a random draw double elimination tournament? Something different
My guess is that all the teams/players would probably MUCH prefer to limit the mid-week travel. If the thorns were playing Gotham or DC they’d have to fly in midweek, practice, play, fly back and then play in Portland Saturday night.
They still have to beat the best teams to win anyhow, so I don’t really see the groupings as a massive issue. It’s really just chance that the Thorns, Reign, and SD are the three best teams, which is unfortunate....but so it goes.
IIUC the top four teams in the tournament get shares of the prize money. Somebody on the west coast is gonna miss out.
Yeah there will be a better 2nd place team in one of the other conferences.
Portland, OL, and SD will all hurt each other's chances.
The prize money is life changing to lots of players so this was not the way to do it from NWSL.
Yeah, it seems unfair to be on a team on the West coast vs either of the other two regions. Especially when there's 1 mill on the line....I'm glad they're taking the best 2nd place team, but still seems to be an unbalanced way of doing things with so much money on the line.
That's what really bothers me, the format makes sense when there are 2 good teams in each group, but you have probably the best 3 teams last year and this year playing in one group.
I think it would be cool if they had to draw ping pong balls and do live draws. I think double elimination is the way to go moving forward.
This is huge money for these players and seems like having unfair groups is a bad way for some to lose out on money.
Vague corporate speak around the Potter sacking, but it sounds more like a matter of team performance than professional misconduct:
“We watch the play on the pitch, we keep a pulse on the locker room, and we are constantly evaluating ways to improve our club,” Current general manager Camille Ashton said in a statement. “Through our ongoing process of continuous improvement, we believe now is the right time for this change.”
Claire Watkins is making that argument: https://justwomenssports.com/reads/kansas-city-current-matt-potter-2023-losses-debinha/
You'd think they'd learn to be way more transparent by now
I am reminded of these bon mots...
"You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter."
So after careful consideration they believe the best time and place to fire the coach is game day in the opponent's city? At practice yesterday, apparently, he was the head coach; today, chopped liver.
The timing is weird, in that it happened just a few hours before the match, but it also makes sense to do it now if you believe things are heading in the wrong direction and that Potter's not the guy to turn it around (or you've just decided to take a mulligan and start developing the kids because of all the injuries). If you do it right now, you get to start implementing changes during a meaningless game instead of one that counts on the table. You get to take a look at things, then train in preparation for upcoming meaningful matches.
Also, thank you STF for splitting Thorns/Timbers news are giving us an easier way to find what we're looking for! So much better. Next/final step...fix the logo. :)
Sam figured out how to do it and I am so glad he did!
Annoying that Louisville does not have a midweek game to recover from.
I agree. I'm hoping that fact is also taken into consideration for how Norris lines up tonight. Give us the babies! Let them work (or not.) I imagine we'll see Menges, Rocky, and Moultrie tonight though, at least. They seem to be the second choice for starting XI's in the reg season.
Yes, which is really unfortunate in Rocky's case.
Menges "questionable" seemed right.
Oh, was she questionable? The league website has her off completely. Yeah...upset about Rocky also. She's one of my faves and I think deserves the start with Coffey and Dunn.
Menges was not listed as "questionable" from an injury perspective.
I'm just saying, Menges, questionable.
Lol. Accurate, but at least, fast and can guide a backline if healthy.
I do wonder whether we see the new prize money play a little bit of a role in how seriously *some* teams take the CC. I imagine the best teams would prioritize the league, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the lower tier sides really go for the challenge cup- That prize money ain’t something to scoff at for most players in this league.
It’s still shocking to me that the challenge cup is worth more than the championship and shield. I think the players will want to play, but not sure how the balance will look like.
Yeah, it's pretty insulting, actually. Why not just pay the players more and give them some rest instead of having them play in an otherwise meaningless mid-season tourney in order to hopefully pick up some extra scratch?
Tonight's starting lineup....
Hogan
Kuikka Hubly Nally Reyes
Sugita Porter Rodriguez
Leon Smith Sinclair
Well, that's a head-scratcher...
Amandine Henry might go to Angel City? Whatever happened to "Toujours une Thorn"?
That would make me both sad and unhappy, but I guess that's professional sports.
It finally hit me the other day, but not immediately. :(
Yes, it's not signed or anything yet, but that's the news that has been confirmed by a few outlets.
I wonder if Henry to ACFC accounted for Ertz’s unexpected return.
Ertz is on a 1-year deal, which means only through end of this season. Lots of speculation that she might hang it up after this year. Vlatko made it clear that if she wanted to be considered for USWNT then she had to be playing club somewhere. Mandy is probably a 2- or 3-year signing. Mandy will come sometime after the WWC, but Ertz will come in now.
I agree that Jacobson is going to be a key player. However, Natu is her kryptonite. If Natu is only going to play half a game one of our other fullbacks will have to step up big time.
Leon is available. Exactly even if Natu plays it won’t be full minutes.
Yeah, we are very light on experienced fullbacks (and wingers)....I def don't wanna see Reyes against Jakobsson. At least Nally? Honestly, we have no backup RB, so Natu will likely have to play some sig minutes.
Not having McGrady really hurts too.
Nally is ready to go and excited to see her out there.
Yeah, McGrady could’ve really shined in these games. I know Nally will play tonight, I’m just wondering if it’ll be at CB, or is she’s gonna have to fill in at RB. Much better suited for CB, but we don’t have a ton of options!