We cannot play a back 3. Not with Miller and mcgraw.
3-4-3: this formation is designed for high pressing teams. It creates turnovers high up the field and for quick scoring opportunities. It shrinks the space in the midfield and forces the opposition into high IQ situations. The only problem with this formation is that your team has to be very good at pressing. The timing of the press is very important. You don't want to give the opposition time to find space and think about the next pass. If they do then they have time to hit you over the top and bypass the press. If the opposition has a quick forward it will become a foot race with the backline. Especially because the back 3 normally means they are gonna play a high line to clean up misplaced passes and bad decisions from the pressure. So if the best opportunities is to go direct and create a foot race between the back line and forward, your backline has to be able to keep up in a foot race.
Absolutely nothing from last year showed us that Miller and mcgraw would beat anyone in a foot race. Mcgraw is dominant in the air and in the box. Miller is good in the box and at distribution. These are traditional cbs. They have to play in a mid block or lower. Limit the space they have to cover.
First half was one of the worst halves I've witnessed. Completely outplayed by Vancouver, including the 10 minutes before the Red Card. Didn't look like the team was at all prepared to start the game. Passing was sloppy, out hustled by Vancouver. They clearly seemed unprepared to start the game. Miller, who I still don't understand why Neville wanted him, why we pay him $750K for someone so slow and often out of position. I believe, at least last year, we have the highest paid coach in MLS at $1 million a year and we start with one of the worst games in MLS's opening weekend. I've already got tickets for Austin, but assuming that will be more of the same, it is going to be my last game for a while. The product on the field just isn't worth wasting my money on. I love the atmosphere that the TA brings to the game, but at some point why should everyone support such a dumpster fire? I'm not usually one to blame the coach, but if Neville can't at a minimum get us into the playoffs this year, then he needs to be gone, along with Ned.
I fully believed Neville was the wrong hire at the time, and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind. Unfortunately the Timbers are stuck with him for now - if the wheels continue to fall off this catastrophically, there may be a mid-season change, but we're in for another season of Vibes, and it's gonna be...something.
I fully believe there are good Timbers players, and that the new guys brought in are also promising. I do not believe Neville is a good enough coach to make them a good, cohesive team.
Sample size is a thing. I'm not going to write them off after one shitty game, any more than I write any player off after one game. I need to see them play more but I also would love to see them play under a coach who knows what he's doing.
From what I have seen from highlight videos, nothing i have seen was worth getting excited over. Very average players at best. You can make average players play well but that requires a coach that can make them better than their individual talent. I have no faith phil can do that.
"Completely outplayed by Vancouver, including the 10 minutes before the Red Card. Didn't look like the team was at all prepared to start the game. Passing was sloppy, out hustled by Vancouver. They clearly seemed unprepared to start the game."
This was evident in the preseason matches. Looked disjointed on both sides of the ball. Got mocked for saying that, that it is preseason and doesn't matter. When your starters are in you would hope they would perform even if just preseason. The writing was on the wall.........
I would expect a certain amount of disjointedness in preseason game 1. But I would expect that to fade as the preseason went on, and as of regular season game 1, that disjointedness should be all but gone. Yes, there were injuries that forced lineup changes, and the red card didn't help, but this group of players isn't strangers to each other even if they're not all regular starters.
Because Merritt is a terrible CEO who doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't hire based on ability. He hired Neville based on name recognition and paid him so much because he was a good soccer player in the 90's.
Neville is corroborating why he is one of the worst coaches in the league. EVERY single attack opportunity Vancouver had was through the left back. For Vancouver was just a "rinse and repeat", aware of Neville's ineptitude to correct a flaw. IT IS ALSO CLEAR HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE BRAVO - and it seems personal. Neville and Miller were let go from Miami for a reason and now we are learning why (although I have seen them both in action while in Miami.) I am also wondering why Gravaboy - who was not an outstanding player either - was betting on bringing this coach. The Timbers as it stands do not have a style or strategy. Sorensen demonstrated who is smarter...
This team will not get appreciably better until Hank decides to either sell, or decides to install a CEO who knows how to hire good soccer people. His idiot failson CEO doesn't know a damn thing about what good soccer people look like in this day and age, and he hires according to his whims, and it shows; Ned is increasingly looking out of his depth among the better MLS GM's, and Phil...oof. The Timbers are still stuck in 2018, and MLS is very much in 2025, and it's showing more and more with every passing month and year.
I have always been pretty neutral on the Crepeau v Pantemis debate, because they're both good, but after today? Pants on, baby.
That misplay for the Gauld goal is inexcusable, and giving up four, even with a shorthanded team, is a bad way to start a season. They weren't all his fault, but it's time to stop being ride-or-die with him. There's lots that needs to be shaken up after such a disastrous start, and for me, that's the easiest call to make of them all.
I'm shocked nobody came in for crep after copa america. He had a great tournament and a players value will never be higher then a great performance in a big tournament. If portland had offers and didn't sell him, especially with pantemis on the bench, the FO is even dumber then the dumb I already think they are. Like "Simple Jack" in tropic thunder dumb.
In a salary-restricted league, it's definitely not smart to carry two #1 quality keepers when you can easily sell one and turn that sale into other pieces that can help. I definitely fault the FO for not at least shopping Crepeau if there weren't actual offers; Pantemis definitely made a really strong case for the job while Crepeau was away last year, and as you say, he had a great tournament.
But this FO is not, shall we say, renowned for being smart, so.
My comment on the preview thread was spot on about a slow defense and an open game. Miller was running in mud on the red card and whether the ref got it wrong or right, IT WAS MILLER’S FAULT. Chasing shadows for 80 minutes with one LESS slow defender is not fun. Add a GG (goalkeeper giveaway)and then the missed handball for another goal and voila, welcome to last place in the West. Things could have been better, but they can’t get much worse.
Starting KMiller and McGraw is such a bad idea, both of them are too slow to recover from playing the high line that Neville prefers. They need to be drilled in staying back and not getting sucked forward, which is what I thought the 3-back formation was supposed to help with.
But we need to remember that this is just one game. Add in the fact that we were missing Zuparic, Rodriguez and Moreno (3 starters) and it was going to be a tough hill to climb. But Neville needs to drill into the team that defense has to be the #1 focus of the team, especially right now as da Costa is getting into playing shape. Without a stout defense, this team isn't going to go far.
Excellent recap for a tough opener, that's basically the exact vibe we came away with. Despite today's performance I'm still very optimistic that Neville has enough good pieces on the board to wage a successful campaign this year, with one glaring and puzzling exception. Can someone please educate me as to why Neville doesn't start Pantemis in the box? The difference in performance is staggering, why not go with the better, faster, more electrifying keeper..?
I’ve been reluctant to put too much blame on Phil (it’s not him out there giving up setpiece goals and getting numbskull reds after all) but if Crepeau starts next week… 🤦🏻♂️
There are coaches in the league earning way less than him and putting up much better results. He brought in these players, set this formation, played a comically high and porous line. Yes it's Phil's fault. And our FO's for going along with it and honestly hiring him in the first place
None of the goals were from set pieces. But I agree phil ain't it. Neither are these bum ass players. Neither is Ned. Neither is MP. This franchise is nothing but embodiment of low expectations.
Yeah, today wasn't the fault of set pieces, I was just talking in general - set pieces are a big problem, and that's down to coaching. Execution matters, but if you're executing on a shitty plan, you're not going to do well no matter what.
Agree. It was kinda hard to tell what was Phil's plan and what was just player quality last year. One thing is for sure. His choice of formation was terrible. So was his valuation of what mcgraw and Miller could do.
And the most problematic thing about yesterday was that Phil didn't learn a damn thing from an entire season's worth of mistakes in that exact same vein. He had a whole winter to study what went wrong, figure out how better to use the pieces he has, and find a way to not be a hot mess at the back, and instead, we got whatever the first 10 minutes of yesterday was.
Even allowing for the short-handedness after the sending off, it's clear that Phil has no idea how best to play the players he has - he clearly doesn't know what McGraw and Miller are good at, and he keeps trying to force his players to play "Phil's style", when it clearly is not working. A good manager would adjust his style to his players. Phil just throws his players under the bus in post game press conferences when they can't play his style - he did this again last night, and it's infuriating, because it's not the players' fault they're being asked to do things they're not capable of doing.
I was at the game and I agree that this team didn't seem particularly ready. I was sitting on the west side near the south end. The first ten minutes the Timbers did nothing dangerous at all- then the red card (seemed soft but the card sure came out fast). After that, it was totally dominance by Vancouver. Not what I was hoping for, but not a sign that this season is over either. A few points:
- There has been a huge infusion of young players. It's unrealistic to expect them to be cohesive on the first game. This should improve with time and in fact by the end of the year they might look really good, but it will take time. There have been discussions about the best formation to play and I would argue for a super simple 4-4-2 if only because I think every player is familiar with this formation since pee wee soccer and understands the basic responsibilities. Start with that.
-We were missing a lot of key pieces of the attack and looked totally anemic. I have to ask how different it would have been with Rodriguez and Moreno in the mix. Now I realize that there are those that would argue the defense lost the game, and I get it. However, if you have no credible attack, it puts way too much pressure on the defense. Honestly the ball was almost never in Vancouver's half- hence the lopsided shots stat. Last year the Timbers attack was fearsome- yesterday the attack scared nobody and it got worse after the red card.
-Any chance of righting the ship disappeared after the red card. Recall, at that moment the match was scoreless. Really any team having to play 80 minutes down a man has slim odds.
-I really don't know how good a coach Phil is (mixed body of work at best) but I guess we will all find out. I didn't support the hire initially, but I certainly am not ready to make a definitive statement after one game at the beginning of the year with a ton of new guys and several key players injured. In the best of circumstances with all of the new faces I expected an uneven start to the season as things get sorted. If this team is looking the same in May I am going to be very concerned. For now, I am in wait and see mode.
-Wasn't thrilled to start the season with a Cascadia clash. Too high stakes for the first match.
-It was great to see DaCosta add a ton of energy in the second half. Fast, good work rate, seems like he can be a disrupter to opposing defenses. I'm really interesting in seeing how he will integrate with the rest of the attack. It could be a lot of fun.
-At the end of the day it was one game. There's a lot more to be played. Hang in there, folks.
"I really don't know how good a coach Phil is (mixed body of work at best) but I guess we will all find out. I didn't support the hire initially, but I certainly am not ready to make a definitive statement after one game at the beginning of the year with a ton of new guys and several key players injured."
But it's not one game! It's one season and one game. And his time in Miami. There's plenty of evidence in MLS before yesterday that he's not a good coach, and no amount of "well let's just wait until (pick your favorite variable) happens" will make him one. I wanted him to be better here, but he hasn't been, and he won't be, even when he gets his players back and healthy.
He doesn't know how to utilize the players he has, he doesn't know how to adapt when things aren't going his way, and he's not at all willing to consider that his methods, not his players, might be the problem. That's not great.
"In the best of circumstances with all of the new faces I expected an uneven start to the season as things get sorted."
Other teams somehow manage to integrate new players and not struggle to adapt! Cincinnati's non-Evander new guy scored a goal this weekend! Atlanta's new guy scored two! It's not hard! Roster addition and turnover happens every year for every team! Why do we accept this? Why is it OK to just somehow punt the first month of a season because "they're new"?
I hate that the Timbers seem to feel like we as fans need to "be patient" at the start of a season, when the rest of the league is firing on all cylinders from the jump. The schedule comes out in advance, and other than injuries, the Timbers should be ready to go from game 1. No excuses.
Similar to Phil, I was dismayed by Grabavoy’s comment in the recent podcast about the Timbers’ history of slow season starts. All he could do is blame too much travel in early season. That’s not an answer. Made even more obvious by the fact we got demolished AT HOME.
Hard to take away too much other than another embarrassing match at home losing to the whitecaps. Red was soft but Miller had his arm on his shoulder which got the call. If there’s not a response next game we’re likely in for an extremely rough season.
If someone has access to such data I would love to see our goal difference when we play a back 3. Either our players can't play it, our coach can't coach it or both. Yet he continues to persist with it.
It's not just about a back three. We also play a ridiculously high line with our CBs but they are too slow for it. They can't keep up with runners. When Crepeau is on his line, that leaves a lot of space between the advanced defenders and the goal for opposing attackers to pass and run into. Neville brought in and retained players that are too slow for the system he implemented himself. He isn't learning from his mistakes. That's to say nothing of how poorly the rest of the team are apparently drilled on defending higher up the pitch.
We were actually good in a back 3 under gio. It wasn't till he would sub in mabiala that it would fall apart. Under phil I haven't seen enough to judge. But this year isn't going well with it.
I was actually just thinking under Fizzer. I recall more than once last season being up by 2 with a back 4, switching to a back 3 and giving up the lead.
I mean, Mora scored 14 last year so it's not like there are no Timbers capable of scoring; until Rodriguez is back and da Costa is up to speed, they'll need a lot out of him quickly.
My best guess on Mora was the Neville wanted to have a more defensive team out there to keep the game close. Of course, by the time Miller was able to come on we were already down 2 goals, so defense wasn't going to keep us in the game. I wouldn't criticize taking Mora off early too much, as the team needs to keep him healthy this year. But I'm sure Mora was pissed to only get 30+ minutes of run out there.
I wasn't at the game, and only watched some of the...highlights? Can we call them that?...afterward, so I can't really say. But my general "Phil doesn't know what he's doing" blanket statement probably applies here.
"He clearly wasn't happy"
I'm sensing a pattern. That pattern is not a good one. It has been around a while, and people keep saying it's this player or that player. But at some point, it's not. It's the club. It's the coach. It's the system. It's the atmosphere. It's definitely something to keep an eye on as this year staggers forward.
We cannot play a back 3. Not with Miller and mcgraw.
3-4-3: this formation is designed for high pressing teams. It creates turnovers high up the field and for quick scoring opportunities. It shrinks the space in the midfield and forces the opposition into high IQ situations. The only problem with this formation is that your team has to be very good at pressing. The timing of the press is very important. You don't want to give the opposition time to find space and think about the next pass. If they do then they have time to hit you over the top and bypass the press. If the opposition has a quick forward it will become a foot race with the backline. Especially because the back 3 normally means they are gonna play a high line to clean up misplaced passes and bad decisions from the pressure. So if the best opportunities is to go direct and create a foot race between the back line and forward, your backline has to be able to keep up in a foot race.
Absolutely nothing from last year showed us that Miller and mcgraw would beat anyone in a foot race. Mcgraw is dominant in the air and in the box. Miller is good in the box and at distribution. These are traditional cbs. They have to play in a mid block or lower. Limit the space they have to cover.
I have no idea what Phil was thinking.
This organization is an absolute clown show and needed a full blown top to bottom restructuring like 5 years ago. Pure unadulterated incompetence.
First half was one of the worst halves I've witnessed. Completely outplayed by Vancouver, including the 10 minutes before the Red Card. Didn't look like the team was at all prepared to start the game. Passing was sloppy, out hustled by Vancouver. They clearly seemed unprepared to start the game. Miller, who I still don't understand why Neville wanted him, why we pay him $750K for someone so slow and often out of position. I believe, at least last year, we have the highest paid coach in MLS at $1 million a year and we start with one of the worst games in MLS's opening weekend. I've already got tickets for Austin, but assuming that will be more of the same, it is going to be my last game for a while. The product on the field just isn't worth wasting my money on. I love the atmosphere that the TA brings to the game, but at some point why should everyone support such a dumpster fire? I'm not usually one to blame the coach, but if Neville can't at a minimum get us into the playoffs this year, then he needs to be gone, along with Ned.
I fully believed Neville was the wrong hire at the time, and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind. Unfortunately the Timbers are stuck with him for now - if the wheels continue to fall off this catastrophically, there may be a mid-season change, but we're in for another season of Vibes, and it's gonna be...something.
I fully believe there are good Timbers players, and that the new guys brought in are also promising. I do not believe Neville is a good enough coach to make them a good, cohesive team.
Totally!
The new guys are trash.
Sample size is a thing. I'm not going to write them off after one shitty game, any more than I write any player off after one game. I need to see them play more but I also would love to see them play under a coach who knows what he's doing.
From what I have seen from highlight videos, nothing i have seen was worth getting excited over. Very average players at best. You can make average players play well but that requires a coach that can make them better than their individual talent. I have no faith phil can do that.
"Completely outplayed by Vancouver, including the 10 minutes before the Red Card. Didn't look like the team was at all prepared to start the game. Passing was sloppy, out hustled by Vancouver. They clearly seemed unprepared to start the game."
This was evident in the preseason matches. Looked disjointed on both sides of the ball. Got mocked for saying that, that it is preseason and doesn't matter. When your starters are in you would hope they would perform even if just preseason. The writing was on the wall.........
I would expect a certain amount of disjointedness in preseason game 1. But I would expect that to fade as the preseason went on, and as of regular season game 1, that disjointedness should be all but gone. Yes, there were injuries that forced lineup changes, and the red card didn't help, but this group of players isn't strangers to each other even if they're not all regular starters.
Why is he paid so much? He hasn't been successful by literally any metric and our org paying that much is unconsciousable
Because Merritt is a terrible CEO who doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't hire based on ability. He hired Neville based on name recognition and paid him so much because he was a good soccer player in the 90's.
Well, you won't see Miller and McGraw together against Austin!
Neville is corroborating why he is one of the worst coaches in the league. EVERY single attack opportunity Vancouver had was through the left back. For Vancouver was just a "rinse and repeat", aware of Neville's ineptitude to correct a flaw. IT IS ALSO CLEAR HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE BRAVO - and it seems personal. Neville and Miller were let go from Miami for a reason and now we are learning why (although I have seen them both in action while in Miami.) I am also wondering why Gravaboy - who was not an outstanding player either - was betting on bringing this coach. The Timbers as it stands do not have a style or strategy. Sorensen demonstrated who is smarter...
This team will not get appreciably better until Hank decides to either sell, or decides to install a CEO who knows how to hire good soccer people. His idiot failson CEO doesn't know a damn thing about what good soccer people look like in this day and age, and he hires according to his whims, and it shows; Ned is increasingly looking out of his depth among the better MLS GM's, and Phil...oof. The Timbers are still stuck in 2018, and MLS is very much in 2025, and it's showing more and more with every passing month and year.
I'm disappointed with the Bravo benching. I've always thought he was a solid left back and certainly better than yesterday's mess.
I have always been pretty neutral on the Crepeau v Pantemis debate, because they're both good, but after today? Pants on, baby.
That misplay for the Gauld goal is inexcusable, and giving up four, even with a shorthanded team, is a bad way to start a season. They weren't all his fault, but it's time to stop being ride-or-die with him. There's lots that needs to be shaken up after such a disastrous start, and for me, that's the easiest call to make of them all.
I'm shocked nobody came in for crep after copa america. He had a great tournament and a players value will never be higher then a great performance in a big tournament. If portland had offers and didn't sell him, especially with pantemis on the bench, the FO is even dumber then the dumb I already think they are. Like "Simple Jack" in tropic thunder dumb.
In a salary-restricted league, it's definitely not smart to carry two #1 quality keepers when you can easily sell one and turn that sale into other pieces that can help. I definitely fault the FO for not at least shopping Crepeau if there weren't actual offers; Pantemis definitely made a really strong case for the job while Crepeau was away last year, and as you say, he had a great tournament.
But this FO is not, shall we say, renowned for being smart, so.
Agreed 💯 I’m just afraid Phil is going to say well we didn’t really give him a chance playing down a man so he starts again… 🤦🏻♂️
My comment on the preview thread was spot on about a slow defense and an open game. Miller was running in mud on the red card and whether the ref got it wrong or right, IT WAS MILLER’S FAULT. Chasing shadows for 80 minutes with one LESS slow defender is not fun. Add a GG (goalkeeper giveaway)and then the missed handball for another goal and voila, welcome to last place in the West. Things could have been better, but they can’t get much worse.
Red was a little soft sure, but bottom line is you can’t even give the ref the chance to make that call. So freaking dumb.
Starting KMiller and McGraw is such a bad idea, both of them are too slow to recover from playing the high line that Neville prefers. They need to be drilled in staying back and not getting sucked forward, which is what I thought the 3-back formation was supposed to help with.
But we need to remember that this is just one game. Add in the fact that we were missing Zuparic, Rodriguez and Moreno (3 starters) and it was going to be a tough hill to climb. But Neville needs to drill into the team that defense has to be the #1 focus of the team, especially right now as da Costa is getting into playing shape. Without a stout defense, this team isn't going to go far.
Excellent recap for a tough opener, that's basically the exact vibe we came away with. Despite today's performance I'm still very optimistic that Neville has enough good pieces on the board to wage a successful campaign this year, with one glaring and puzzling exception. Can someone please educate me as to why Neville doesn't start Pantemis in the box? The difference in performance is staggering, why not go with the better, faster, more electrifying keeper..?
BTW, love the new kit...!
I’ve been reluctant to put too much blame on Phil (it’s not him out there giving up setpiece goals and getting numbskull reds after all) but if Crepeau starts next week… 🤦🏻♂️
There are coaches in the league earning way less than him and putting up much better results. He brought in these players, set this formation, played a comically high and porous line. Yes it's Phil's fault. And our FO's for going along with it and honestly hiring him in the first place
Put all the blame on Phil you want. He's not a good coach.
"It’s not him out there giving up setpiece goals"
No, but who coaches the team on how to defend set pieces? Phil! Liam! They're all bad at their jobs.
None of the goals were from set pieces. But I agree phil ain't it. Neither are these bum ass players. Neither is Ned. Neither is MP. This franchise is nothing but embodiment of low expectations.
Yeah, today wasn't the fault of set pieces, I was just talking in general - set pieces are a big problem, and that's down to coaching. Execution matters, but if you're executing on a shitty plan, you're not going to do well no matter what.
Agree. It was kinda hard to tell what was Phil's plan and what was just player quality last year. One thing is for sure. His choice of formation was terrible. So was his valuation of what mcgraw and Miller could do.
And the most problematic thing about yesterday was that Phil didn't learn a damn thing from an entire season's worth of mistakes in that exact same vein. He had a whole winter to study what went wrong, figure out how better to use the pieces he has, and find a way to not be a hot mess at the back, and instead, we got whatever the first 10 minutes of yesterday was.
Even allowing for the short-handedness after the sending off, it's clear that Phil has no idea how best to play the players he has - he clearly doesn't know what McGraw and Miller are good at, and he keeps trying to force his players to play "Phil's style", when it clearly is not working. A good manager would adjust his style to his players. Phil just throws his players under the bus in post game press conferences when they can't play his style - he did this again last night, and it's infuriating, because it's not the players' fault they're being asked to do things they're not capable of doing.
I was at the game and I agree that this team didn't seem particularly ready. I was sitting on the west side near the south end. The first ten minutes the Timbers did nothing dangerous at all- then the red card (seemed soft but the card sure came out fast). After that, it was totally dominance by Vancouver. Not what I was hoping for, but not a sign that this season is over either. A few points:
- There has been a huge infusion of young players. It's unrealistic to expect them to be cohesive on the first game. This should improve with time and in fact by the end of the year they might look really good, but it will take time. There have been discussions about the best formation to play and I would argue for a super simple 4-4-2 if only because I think every player is familiar with this formation since pee wee soccer and understands the basic responsibilities. Start with that.
-We were missing a lot of key pieces of the attack and looked totally anemic. I have to ask how different it would have been with Rodriguez and Moreno in the mix. Now I realize that there are those that would argue the defense lost the game, and I get it. However, if you have no credible attack, it puts way too much pressure on the defense. Honestly the ball was almost never in Vancouver's half- hence the lopsided shots stat. Last year the Timbers attack was fearsome- yesterday the attack scared nobody and it got worse after the red card.
-Any chance of righting the ship disappeared after the red card. Recall, at that moment the match was scoreless. Really any team having to play 80 minutes down a man has slim odds.
-I really don't know how good a coach Phil is (mixed body of work at best) but I guess we will all find out. I didn't support the hire initially, but I certainly am not ready to make a definitive statement after one game at the beginning of the year with a ton of new guys and several key players injured. In the best of circumstances with all of the new faces I expected an uneven start to the season as things get sorted. If this team is looking the same in May I am going to be very concerned. For now, I am in wait and see mode.
-Wasn't thrilled to start the season with a Cascadia clash. Too high stakes for the first match.
-It was great to see DaCosta add a ton of energy in the second half. Fast, good work rate, seems like he can be a disrupter to opposing defenses. I'm really interesting in seeing how he will integrate with the rest of the attack. It could be a lot of fun.
-At the end of the day it was one game. There's a lot more to be played. Hang in there, folks.
"I really don't know how good a coach Phil is (mixed body of work at best) but I guess we will all find out. I didn't support the hire initially, but I certainly am not ready to make a definitive statement after one game at the beginning of the year with a ton of new guys and several key players injured."
But it's not one game! It's one season and one game. And his time in Miami. There's plenty of evidence in MLS before yesterday that he's not a good coach, and no amount of "well let's just wait until (pick your favorite variable) happens" will make him one. I wanted him to be better here, but he hasn't been, and he won't be, even when he gets his players back and healthy.
He doesn't know how to utilize the players he has, he doesn't know how to adapt when things aren't going his way, and he's not at all willing to consider that his methods, not his players, might be the problem. That's not great.
"In the best of circumstances with all of the new faces I expected an uneven start to the season as things get sorted."
Other teams somehow manage to integrate new players and not struggle to adapt! Cincinnati's non-Evander new guy scored a goal this weekend! Atlanta's new guy scored two! It's not hard! Roster addition and turnover happens every year for every team! Why do we accept this? Why is it OK to just somehow punt the first month of a season because "they're new"?
I hate that the Timbers seem to feel like we as fans need to "be patient" at the start of a season, when the rest of the league is firing on all cylinders from the jump. The schedule comes out in advance, and other than injuries, the Timbers should be ready to go from game 1. No excuses.
Similar to Phil, I was dismayed by Grabavoy’s comment in the recent podcast about the Timbers’ history of slow season starts. All he could do is blame too much travel in early season. That’s not an answer. Made even more obvious by the fact we got demolished AT HOME.
Hard to take away too much other than another embarrassing match at home losing to the whitecaps. Red was soft but Miller had his arm on his shoulder which got the call. If there’s not a response next game we’re likely in for an extremely rough season.
three central defenders and three central midfielders, and still the middle was open far to often in the first half.
They also had 4 against our 3 in the middle. Tough to control the midfield like that.
they had Cuba, Berhalter, and Vite.
If someone has access to such data I would love to see our goal difference when we play a back 3. Either our players can't play it, our coach can't coach it or both. Yet he continues to persist with it.
It's not just about a back three. We also play a ridiculously high line with our CBs but they are too slow for it. They can't keep up with runners. When Crepeau is on his line, that leaves a lot of space between the advanced defenders and the goal for opposing attackers to pass and run into. Neville brought in and retained players that are too slow for the system he implemented himself. He isn't learning from his mistakes. That's to say nothing of how poorly the rest of the team are apparently drilled on defending higher up the pitch.
We were actually good in a back 3 under gio. It wasn't till he would sub in mabiala that it would fall apart. Under phil I haven't seen enough to judge. But this year isn't going well with it.
there was nothing redeeming under gio other than l could nap for the first 80 minutes and watch to see if we were going to actually play the last 10.
I was actually just thinking under Fizzer. I recall more than once last season being up by 2 with a back 4, switching to a back 3 and giving up the lead.
Do we have any scorers evander is gone and Rodriguez out for awhile
I mean, Mora scored 14 last year so it's not like there are no Timbers capable of scoring; until Rodriguez is back and da Costa is up to speed, they'll need a lot out of him quickly.
Any thoughts on why Mora was subbed out before the half? He clearly wasn't happy and immediately walked solo to the locker room.
My best guess on Mora was the Neville wanted to have a more defensive team out there to keep the game close. Of course, by the time Miller was able to come on we were already down 2 goals, so defense wasn't going to keep us in the game. I wouldn't criticize taking Mora off early too much, as the team needs to keep him healthy this year. But I'm sure Mora was pissed to only get 30+ minutes of run out there.
I wasn't at the game, and only watched some of the...highlights? Can we call them that?...afterward, so I can't really say. But my general "Phil doesn't know what he's doing" blanket statement probably applies here.
"He clearly wasn't happy"
I'm sensing a pattern. That pattern is not a good one. It has been around a while, and people keep saying it's this player or that player. But at some point, it's not. It's the club. It's the coach. It's the system. It's the atmosphere. It's definitely something to keep an eye on as this year staggers forward.