Yeah, I've been worried about that for 2-3 seasons now honestly. I feel bad that they signed Rocky for three more years in the offseason, after she was starting games (and looking great at the end of the season!) and then Dunn kinda took her spot, and now she's locked into a long contract.
I really don't think she needs to go from "being a starter" to "retiring", but I wish that she/coach was more comfortable with a sub role for her. Her leadership is super valuable to have around the team, but not at the expense of taking starting minutes from other players at this point.
Sadly, Mother Nature and Father Time are undefeated. It happens to everyone, to a different degree and at a different time, but it happens nonetheless.
Reminds me of when Macario was at Stanford and she basically broke his player rating system, because she ranked 2 or 3X higher than the next best player. Soph, gettin' it done.
Dismayed to see zero Thorns in the top defensive list, but it also affirms what the eyes have been telling us.
Yes, though defensive duel percentage is hardly a good measure of defensive efficacy: It’s more “how good are you at ball winning.” There’s a lot of players on subpar defenses on that list.
(Not saying this to excuse the Thorns, but usually “goals allowed” is the best defensive metric imo)
Yeah, even after a pair of 3 goals allowed matches Portland still leads his "Post-Shot xG Differential Chart." I'm joining the "Let's get Becky back out there" chorus, even if it's partly the leaky midfield.
I think she's passing a lot more because teams are forcing her out of goal-scoring positions. Like, they're denying that space in behind. If she becomes this multi-faceted they're going to have to figure out if they want to stop her creating or stop her shooting.
She’s also trying a lot of through balls, however those are defined in the metric.
Eye test says she could use some work on accuracy, timing, and weight of pass, but it’s interesting how many she’s played given the only real player with pace who plays alongside Smith is Weaver.
I thought that part was strange also...Hina is def not a "run-onto-a through-ball-and-score" type of winger, like at all, especially on the R side. She doesn't have the pure speed or speed w/dribbling ability, and is left-footed. I'm not sure what the hell to do with Hina, esp with Sinc and Dunn so cemented in MF, but I think we need more speed, stretch, and threat on the R side than Hina can give. If we can't have Dunn there, I'd like to see D'Aquila or Leon start with the A team.
However, I do fear with pulling Hina and using a pure winger, the midfield will become even worse, since she often drops back much of the time. It all comes back to problem #1...
Dang it would be so great if the Thorns could find a young, fast RW that works well with Smith and Weaver up front. Someone with speed and some aerial ability. Hey, Gotham has somebody like that... never mind, she's not looking for CWNT minutes, so I guess that's not going to happen.
Even if we're not allowed to drop Sinclair to the bench, it would still help to simply swap Dunn and Sugita. Dunn would do well as a winger in a 4-3-3 and Hina so obviously belongs in midfield.
I assume that the count is referring to successful passes, but she often tries to play ball through to Hina or others when the pass isn’t really on.
She does have a lot of moments where she breaks pressure on the turn and feeds one of the fullbacks, but those aren’t usually what I would classify as “through balls.” Who knows- it’s not like 9 through balls over 6 games is a tremendous amount anyways.
I feel like we are, by not taking care of the midfield, and then the dominoing defensive issues....the offense is producing enough to be dominating games!
I am not that high on Gotham as they continue to play down to their competition every single week. However, this is peak post-injury Lynn Williams :)
I have my bottom three different, because they just don't have upside to climb out by the end of the season. Houston and Racing have a chance to get out of it, but not sure if Dash's midfield and Racing's inexperience will allow that.
Going to be an interesting season. Thanks for sharing your rankings, I have the top 6 the same, just different order.
I am not high on Gotham either, but someone's gotta be #3 for awhile!
I think Portland have been tumbling for a few weeks now. This is my personal wake-up call to the team.... because *of course* they care what *I* think!
Agreed: we've been shipping stupid goals of late. I remember when we used to be the best defensive team in the league...one of the best in the world. I miss those times.
The counterpoint to that is we have the second best xG against and the best xG difference per 90 in the league, both of which were almost true last year (well we were .8 xG worse than San Diego, so 3rd xG against). The question for me: is what we've seen over the last two games somewhat random bad luck or is the advanced data missing something? I'm genuinely unsure, but my guess is a mixture of both: the advanced data misses some of the structural issues because they don't always lead to what look like great chances or shots, but we've also been a fair bit and randomly unlucky (Bixby not getting the foul against Angel City; Kerolin's shot hitting the inside of the post; Menges's deflection going in, not behind for a corner).
I think some of it really is just bad luck: some of the goals are less "stupid" than they are "fluky" (or, in the case of Ertz clobbering Bixby, shit-tier officiating) But we've seen the back line under undue pressure because of midfield problems - much discussed, so I'll not reiterate - and Bella's had some very bad moments (she CANNOT keep conceding at the near post...goalkeeping 101, ffs...).
Yeah, I would def not put Gotham above the Thorns, even with our issues. I think they've had some gritty wins where they kinda got lucky but I think they've been punching above their weight and they haven't faced super tough opponents yet. Their defense if super iffy for me, and Abby Smith has been very up and down....Lynn Williams has been the only bright spot consistently, but they're gonna need more than that long-term. I'd still put them around 5/6. The Spirit though...they did look really good in that SD game. Still wanna see if that can be consistent...I do have those same top 6 also, just like Phuoc though, mine are a different order.
I think it's weird to be playing HOU again so soon after already playing them, and we haven't even played other teams yet! The fact that we haven't even played SD, OLR, or Washington though has me wondering how far we could slide down the table....
I agree, and Portland will return to my Tier 1 as soon as they start playing like they belong there.
But...
Last 4 matches, Thorns are 1-0-3 and 7 goals conceded against Houston at home, Louisville at home, ACFCNFT at home, and NC away.
Thorns and Gotham have mostly common opponents through 6 matches. Only differences being Houston and Louisville for Portland and Chicago and Puget Sound WoSo Team for Gotham.
Thorns are 3-0-3 while Gotham are 4-2-0, but one of their losses is Puget Sound WoSo Team and Thorns are damn lucky not to be 3-2-1 right now.
It is a long season and at least eight teams will be in contention for the six spots for the championship. The Thorns and the Reign are the only ones I am certain of because the next six I think are all good, but flawed. San Diego, Washington, Gotham, Houston, KC and AC are all pretty good teams, but not Thorns/Reign level in my opinion. I think the WC break will shift a lot of things around, but Portland and Seattle have the depth and the experience I think to overcome the massive loss of starters.
There was some debate in the match thread whether the Thorns issues are structural or whether it's mostly a Sinc issue. I could write a book on the how a real 8 would impact the way Norris wants his 4-3-3 to play, but it really just comes down to:
1. Sinc can't defend like a real 8 mainly because she doesn't have the stamina or speed to cover, but also because she's *been a striker her whole career.* She doesn't want to defend, and she doesn't have the ability to be an effective 8 even if she did. She, and Dunn, to a lesser extent, leave Sam completely isolated, which accentuates Sam's weaknesses and hides her strengths. Playing without a functional 8 also makes it impossible to play out through the midfield, leading to some of the bad giveaways we've seen from Coffey and the defenders.
2. She can't press. Norris wants to press. If one member of your press can't press, the press not only doesn't work, it leaves giant gaps behind it.
3. Her lack of ability to play and connect in the attacking spaces (strengths of Rocky and Moultrie) forces Kling high, leaving gaps in behind. In both of the last two games, Sam and the two FBs have looked much more comfortable doing their jobs with Moultrie on and Sinc off.
But most importantly? Moultrie is really fucking good. Not just "good for 17 good," either. Sometimes, it's just a matter of playing your best players in the right positions. (Rocky- Also good!). Cmon now!
Yeah, I'd try Hogan over Bixby for a few games and they definitely miss Becky, but the root of the most easily identifiable issues is Sinc. If the Sinc minutes are direction from Karina --I can't imagine Norris is dumb enough to fail to see the issue-- the new owner should fire her immediately. Thank god they won a title last year, cause I don't think I could take the mere possibility having had this talented a team and having nothing to show for it.
Anyway- End of rant. Liv's goal was dirty and the second goal is up there with the best Thorns goals I've ever seen. Love this team, just tired of the club legend refusing to walk off into the sunset.
Yeah, Bev Priestman was here at Prov Park at field level with KK the game after Beckie tore her ACL. Wouldn’t be surprised if Team Canada wanted a “fit Sinclair” from her good friends, the Thorns, leading into the WC. Norris is also from Team Canada. It’s all a bit problematic to me, but I can’t tell if it’s true nepotism or if it’s because KK just doesn’t have the Rolodex for anyone else. Or, if no one else wanted the job. Literally the only people, players and staff, that she’s brought in during her tenure have been Canadian.
I can tolerate an inexperienced GM who may not be the best at bringing in big signings and relies on connections, even it bothers me. Hell, I don’t like the Portlanada stuff, but it’s not like Beckie or Leon are starting matches over other players.
I can’t tolerate a GM interfering on game day in any capacity. I don’t know if it’s nepotism or just deference to a Canadian legend, but if it’s anything else than “the coach thinks Christine Sinclair deserves to be playing based on her play,” it’s unacceptable and fireable.
We just don't know whether or not that's happening.
What we do know, from last year's playoffs, is that Sinc sat almost all match long in the semifinal. Rhian came to that decision and communicated it to Sinc. So, it can happen. I'm confident Norris has the same ability.
Benching Sinc in a semi was brave and it worked. It was also the only time we saw it all season.
I think it’s tempting as fans to see a grand conspiracy where Karina and Sinc are mafia bosses dictating from above.....but it’s far more likely that both RW and Norris are/were first year coaches unwilling to make a decision that excludes a club legend in a WC year. I just struggle to believe a professional coach can’t see how she negatively impacts the team, especially given how Norris wants to play.
Yeah, I don't think it's a grand conspiracy where there is this great intent to be a farm for all the Canadian players pre-WC...it's more sensible in that the relationships of all those folks do impact the decision-making processes...this is like the 3rd season now where Sinc should have been a bench player.
I think it's probably this. I also think it's significant RW did it at the end of the season, when she had the trust and buy in of the players (before...everything). I doubt Norris has that.
You should also consider that Sinc started the year playing very well and is still an opportunistic playmaker. I believe she’s better off playing the last 15 to 20 minutes of the game so she doesn’t have to conserve her energy and is playing against fatigued / slower players.
True, but then she benched Hina and started Sinc in the final, I think for the first time all season. I think it worked fine because KC was bad, and because we still had more two-way coverage with Rocky playing lights-out games in the semi and final.
True, but I think Beckie would have if she was still healthy. Rhian had her starting as soon as she arrived at wingback (ugh), moved Natu and created a mess there, then moved her to RW for half the season. It was only until she looked really poor and still hadn't assisted or scored that Yaz finally started coming in. And, she looked better, so it would've been a difficult ask to not keep starting Yaz. But that was like towards the middle to end of the season....
With Yaz gone and no dedicated RW, I think Hina would've been benched for her this season because she's an actual winger. I read somewhere that she was "due to have a big role this season for the Thorns" before her injury. Maybe I'm assuming too much there, but it's hard to have a big role on the bench...
It's possible, but I really think this is a Sinc issue, not a Canadian one. I saw no real indication either this year or last that Beckie was getting preferential treatment. Beckie played RB early last season because Kling was out for a long time and Nally was the only other option. Once Yaz started playing better, she started getting the starts- which is how it should be.
That doesn't mean she wasn't going to be an important player- She's the only natural right winger in a spot getting backfilled by a rookie striker. I just don't think anyone has an automatic spot except Sinc lol
Totally, I'm not saying this feeds into some Canadian conspiracy or anything....I think the Sinc issue is very different from Beckie (who is new to the club and I don't think has even contributed an assist yet for the club.) Sinclair is a club legend whose time starting games is up. I just think Beckie would've (at least eventually) started at RW because she may be more effective than poor Hina out there.
Beckie had two assists last year but no goals. I was bummed when she missed that shot in the final because how great would it have been for her to score her first Thorns goal in the final?
I’m actually quite fine with leveraging relationships to upgrade our roster. I’m not quite understanding why this is an issue at all. I also believe the roster composition under KK have been among the best in the league and am not willing to accept some of the rumors that appeared to be based on Gavin’s opinions having much merits
The fact that we’re having the least athletic and mobile person in the Nwsl play a position that I’d argue has thee highest need for stamina and athleticism is almost kinda funny to me at this point. Like, Sinc…an 8?! In what universe lmao.
We have two 10’s and one that’s a parking cone. it’s why our midfield sucks. Umm, if Vlatko can’t make it work with Lavelle and Horan, it will not work here. It doesn’t. I feel for Sullivan, who likely also looks worse than she actually is. Same problem that I can’t unsee watching this team play. Sam is pretty slow, and really doesn’t have that in her toolkit to cover ground like that. Use her to her strengths and she’s one of the best 6’s in the league.
That’s Norris’ biggest issue: Watch his press conference- He wants to play on the front foot and press so so so badly, but he also clearly feels he can’t bench Sinc. His whole philosophy is predicated on having someone who plays like Crystal Dunn execute that press, and Sinc just can’t do it, which creates massive issues in all facets of the game.
Think that was just a way to avoid calling out Menges and Bixby tbh- I was more concerned that he didn't seem to mention all the space in midfield after Kassouf/Yang asked about caught out a few times.
He could say defense needs work, though, but he took the question further and said they were good or fine (I forget the exact wording used.) I think the fullbacks have been problematic as well. CB's are way exposed because the fullbacks have been playing like wingbacks and don't get back fast enough. The whole defensive setup looks bad, it's not just individual players. I think it points to more structural issues when everyone in defense looks bad, with Sam included in that.
I suspect that he thinks that Sinc gives them something that we're not recognizing. I don't believe Norris thinks he can't sit her any more or any less than Rhian did.
I don’t *really* believe that he’s being directly told “you have to play Sinclair,” but I do think he feels pressure to play her for non-soccer reasons....if that makes sense.
If he thinks her on-field impact justifies her inclusion in any way, then he’s failing as a manger. And I don’t think he’s a bad manager.
Fwiw, RW sat Sinc in the semi, but that was really the only time we saw it happen. Again, I don’t think it’s a mandate from above, but I do believe that only a high-powered outside hire would have the ability to bench Sinc and neither Norris or RW are of that profile.
She's shown she can't do it or about three years now, with the occasional G/A mixed in. If he doesn't have enough data yet...well, I'm not sure what he's been doing the last two years.
I think at this point Moultrie doesn't have to be the Next Marta. She's better than Sinc is in the #8 role, and that's what we need. So's Rodriguez, for that matter.
I still think that Dunn needs to either move up to the wing or back to LB. But I think it's worth trying one or the other of the two midfielders alongside her to see if they can work as a double pivot.
Her development could be easily sped up if she got more playing time, looks like it'll continued to be hindered this season. Hoping she gets max minutes during the WWC window.
I like Dunn where she is. Her moving to LB isn't an option, but the midfield one you bring up could be. I would like her to play more with Olivia or Rocky alongside Sam.
I think even Hina playing as an 8 is an option...she's clean on the ball and is great at connecting the lines (which we desperately need.) The only worry I have with her there is she doesn't quite have the athleticism that I'd like to see in an 8. Isn't that what she played last season at points?
Disagree on Dunn. She’s been our second best player and one of the best in the league so far at her current position. Your schemes should be driven to get your best players in a position to succeed. I’m super curious to see what happens if Horan comes back.
I had a general hypothesis that one of the reasons that Kling has stepped up so much is she wasn’t worrying about CB positioning with Becky there. The last few games seem to support that belief. I’m not sure if Menges has regressed or we are just spoiled
My take is that Menges has a LOT of mental rust on her game right now, and is making positional errors she didn't make in the past. She's also not as able to make up for such errors with insane pace any more (although she's still our quickest CB by some margin).
I didn't want to overhype Moultrie until I really saw more the occasional flash and she's not there yet...but for a 17 year old to have the physicality to play in midfield and the pure ability to play with the technique and style she has is really special. No idea what her ceiling looks like, but she's supremely talented and still improving- I'm excited to see what she does during the WC.
Dunn just needs to play next to a real 8. Idc whether that's Moultrie or Rocky, but it needs to happen- If nothing else, it'll bring any underlying non-Sinc issues to light.
Moultrie has to be allowed to play more than 20-30 minutes to establish that she's the real deal, but we've now seen several examples of brilliance within limited minutes.
Yeah my read on it is Dunn makes really good late runs - which by the way we need because teams aren’t letting Smith go behind - and her close control is an asset. She’s not going to come deep because, like Sinclair, she’s an attacking player. Give her a free role, give the other central midfielder more parameters and I think that’ll help a lot of the balance issues that we’re seeing right now.
Her rapport with the frontline continues to improve to. Sophia and Morgan always try to find her in the box too. It's only going to get better and Portland will continue to score more off this.
So far I'm really impressed with how far she's come. I'd like to see her go a full 90 against a good opponent before I'm ready to crown her the next Big Thing. But what she's shown so far this year and late last season is really, really promising.
I'm on this bandwagon as well. While it is a good idea to have the Sinc/Moultre pairing, I would start to reverse the order and play Moultre more than Sinc. Tough to tell a legend to come off the bench, but Sinc simply disapears as the game goes on. Norris needs to make the tough decision and flip the two of them, that is why he is the head coach. If he doesn't want to make the hard decisions, then he should pass the reigns on to someone who will.
I agree with your (kielbj) analysis, but complicating all this is the fact that Sinc had a really good start in the first two (or three?) games, which makes it much harder to not start her. There's surely no justification, though, for playing her beyond 30 minutes. Her best use might be as a late sub, since that would avoid the implicit insult of pulling her at 30', but she would not be the typical speedster who comes in late to take advantage of opponents' fatigue.
Yeah, I do wonder if that was more a function of just how poorly organized Orlando and KC started the season, especially on defense. The ball was in the opponent's half most of the games. Her defensive liabilities didn't really have a chance to be exposed at all in those games...better teams, well, it's been like 4 or 5 games now...
Probably a little, but she also looked straight-up spry those first two games. She also was clearly worse in the second halves of both. She's old- It makes sense lol
Not to re-start the Sinc conversation again, but Kassouf and Cascone come about as close as I’ve hear national media (though I think Watkins also tweeted about it on Saturday) come to implying that Moultrie should be starting over Sinc on the Equalizer pod.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Also, they noted that Moultie is going to get an extended audition during the WWC window; she will get all the opportunity she could want.
Yeah, she definitely will. There’s a few possible outcomes:
1. She’s awesome and displaces Sinc post WC and the STF board is universally overjoyed.
2. She’s awesome and then gets immediately replaced after the WC and the STF board burns the website to the ground.
3. She’s good but mostly just meh and nothing really happens except everyone’s vaguely disappointed.
I’d also point out that for all the angst over international losses, we’re actually in pretty good shape in the midfield. Coffey will likely be here, we have Moultrie, and Rocky will probably be back sooner than later because she plays for CR. The issues are gonna be in attack.
Yeah, I think Moultrie will be a big player during the WC, but my expectations aren't massive if we don't really give her much attack to work with. Moultrie with the first team will likely be a different player than Moutrie with a cobbled together midfield and forward line. Really though....who plays in midfield with Coffey and Moutrie? We don't even have a rookie to put there lol. (This is me eyeing Dagny who will not be at the WC....!) That would mean Moultrie would still need to play more of an 8 role. But, we will need probably two 8/10 midfielders for that period. Also, is it Weaver, D'Aquila, and Vasconcelos up top? Still hope KK can bring in an experienced RW from somewhere that isn't going to the WC, so Vasconcelos is more of a sub. Or, hear me out, bring in Mia Fishel for a short stint, and have D'Aquila wide. I hope she goes for some folks who will be valuable and not just filler.
If CR don't get out of the group stage (I feel bad even predicting that, but...) then Rocky would be gone from June 26th (when int'ls are released) to July 31st (their 3rd group game.) Likely would only miss two league games (next one isn't until Aug. 20th), and potentially could even be home for the final CC game (August 6th vs. OL Reign.)
Sorry KK-defenders, here comes another negative take:
This is a perfect example of how a GM who was good at her job could make a huge difference in constructing a roster:
-Thorns have like a half-dozen natural attacking mids, except when they're all gone.
-They have 3 natural LB's, but no natural backup RB.
-They have no natural RW.
As much as I like Rodriguez as a player, she's overkill where she plays- Thorns should have traded her in the off-season for a player/position of need. Now PTFC is just wasting her time and killing her trade value by having her ride the bench.
I’d put Porter at the 6. That frees up both Moultrie and Sam to play a little higher.
Also, Costa Rica is in a WC group with Spain and Japan. I’d have to imagine they don’t make it out, which means Rocky probably doesn’t miss more than a few games.
Could also do that Kling in midfield we saw at one point and wasn't bad. Then put McGrady (if healthy) or Reyes at LB. That way you at least have Porter as a sub option.
BTW, Iron Mike *may* have used his wrist brace to cheat. As former Governor Jesse "The Body" Ventura is fond of saying "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat."
Also, apparently Iron Mike was also known for his OCD tendencies; backstage they called him "Mr Clean." Can't imagine a 1980s WWF locker room was particularly tidy.
Kassouf recognizing this is a breath of fresh air- too much of the NWSL media with the furthest reach is just fan-girls (looking at you, Sandra Herrera).
Would love someone to have the gall to ask (gently) about starting other players who are performing well. Coffey/Hina/Dunn would be a combo I'd like to see also....we need an actual RW. I really don't care for Hina over there. I'm glad there is conversation elsewhere, though, we need media to be putting other ideas out there besides "Sinclair, still best player in the history of the earth."
Late to the party here, but since I was able to attend this game in person, I thought I'd add some thoughts.
(1) Kerolin is very good and ridiculously fast. You think she's fast and then she just goes turbo mode. Smith and Weaver seemed slow in comparison.
(2) All of the subs needed to happen earlier. People were visibly tired and slower to get back on the Pickett goal.
(3) I think there might have been a plan for Rocky to come on with Moultrie? I thought she was warming up with Liv (it was the far side from my seat, so hard to see but I thought it was her), but then she didn't go on. So maybe it was just a warm-up buddy, but given the previous sub patterns, it might have been a late scratch.
(4) Menges is rusty on decision-making and positioning. Understandable since she hasn't played regularly since 2021, but really needs to be sorted out soon.
(5) Carolina's CBs were marking Smith heavily. Lots of small fouls off the ball. If other teams are going to play that way, Smith needs to pass quicker and our other forwards needs to be there. But Weaver is the only one who can keep up, though Dunn is close.
(6) Liv's goal was beautiful and absolutely shocked the stadium.
5. is a concern carryover from last season. She drew a ridiculous # of fouls but the tally represented but a fraction of the times she got knocked to the rug. She's still young but that pounding will accelerate her aging process, and not in the good way.
Sans Debinha, Kerolin has become the focus of their offense and she's grown into the role. Damn it. I can't name a scarier attacker not named Smith.
I've watched Sinclair since her freshman year at UP and she is my all-time favorite player in any sport. She has it all and is of value to any side. But her ability to turn on a dime and deliver devastating balls to others charging the goal or to fake one way, turn the other, and shoot hard and accurately is gone. Again and again I see her a step late going after 50:50 balls when she once would have been a step ahead. Her mind is amazing but her body has slowed.
I don't follow the Canadian NT at all (unless playing the US or in a big competition), but is Sinclair really their best option? I love her to death too, but it is time to admit she is 40 playing professionally with people half her age.
I am halfway convinced Canada isn't going to start her (for who, I don't know - as above) and she will be a sub trying to get late goals and an interesting "legend still inexplicably playing 10 years after most internationals hang it up" sort of story. If they think they are going to start her, will they even get out of their group?
They have some injuries at forward, sad to say. Honestly, it wouldn’t shock me if Sinclair pulled some energy out of the hat. She is as determined (when she truly wants it) as any player in any sport.
The Canadian media have been talking about how Sinc is going to have a much bigger role than anticipated with Beckie out....their depth at F is pretty lacking, esp with Prince still out. What they actually do, I have no idea, but if club is any indication....
They are in trouble if their best option is an immobile 40 year old. I mean there is still a role given her body size and skill set to be a target forward for younger faster players to run off. Her best chances to score will be PKs and I wouldn't expect a whole lot more if I was Canada.
Any chance Thorns pick up Ashley Lawrence? She's going somewhere soon. Chelsea? Tall order perhaps but this is Portlanada afterall. Sure would help defensively.
Does the club even have the roster space? There's 25 if you don't count Beckie as a SEI and Horan as a loan out, or 24 if Leon isn't counted as a loan in. The only reference I can find says that rosters are "22-26" which isn't helpful telling whether the club is capped out...
26 is the limit. I just saw NCC take a player off the 45-injury list today, and they specifically noted that it put them at the 26-player active roster threshold. Pretty sure we are at 26 actively right now, not including Beckie or Horan, who both aren't included in that. Add both of those and we're at 28. Once Leon leaves, we'll be back at 25, again not counting Horan or Beckie.
But, I think NTRP's don't count against the cap or limit, correct? I'm assuming we'll be able to get several players in for that short period, but may only have 1 real roster spot open after Leon leaves. Now....they could be saving that for Horan, which would put us back up to the threshold of 26...
Yeah if they were thinking "win now" with some of their acquisitions, trading Lynn Williams looks like a bizarre and costly decision.
In other news, I'd love to rescue Penelope Hocking from the Red Stars...she has quick and smart touches on the ball, makes great off ball runs, and has a real quick trigger...she can get shots and passes off quickly with little wind-up and I appreciate when a forward has that urgency (not many do imo.)
I really want Reyna Reyes to break out and convince me that picking her over Hocking was a smart move. Admittedly F is less a position of future need than LB, what with Kling not getting any younger (though she's still doing miraculously well), but still Hocking has looked better in the early going. There's a long way to go though.
I'd love if we picked up a decent depth player at RB (an actual RB) so Reyna can really focus on working with Kling on improving her skills at LB. She seems much more comfortable there. It would be good for her and Tegan to compete for the sub role behind Kling (who is still playing pretty well overall.)
It had nearly healed and now you've gone and picked that particular scab. Hopefully Reyes eventually works out as starter, but she comes at a very high price and so far, I'm not seeing a lot from her or of her, for that matter.
I know I made my thoughts clear around the draft that Hocking would have been my pick, but I understand that Reyes’s position was more of a need. When it comes to the draft, I don’t believe in selecting for a position and D’Aquila looks very good
Portland is very lucky to always be in a BPA (best player available) selection process in the draft. I had them both ranked very closely so either was good. I still think Reyna is going to be one of the best players in this class when we look back.
It didn’t really make sense even before the crazy hot streak she’s currently on: Even if you’re really high on Michelle Cooper (I think she’ll pan out, but she’s not near the Alyssa Thompson tier), the composition of the rest of the squad makes it really tough to justify trading a WC caliber striker for a non-elite tier rookie.
(I admittedly didn’t mind it at the time because my philosophy is always “get the young talent,” but I also thought Cooper was going to be a little more of an instant-impact player)
Yeah, same re: Cooper. The drop off even between first and second pick is kinda nuts. Thompson is gonna be a Soph level problem in a few years, methinks.
Random fact from the weekend that I was baffled about: Attendance at Cary was about 7k. Gotta be a record for there lol. At Lumen? 6k! What a poor showing from Seattle on a Saturday night. I can't see how that keeps the lights on. Sure doesn't help their argument for a sale.
Seattle’s fan support is embarrassing. It was mildly understandable when they had to play in Memorial and then Tacoma, but failing to get 10k to Lumen is ugly stuff.
I was at the North Carolina game on Saturday actually. There were a few factors that definitely helped the attendance number. (1) At halftime a bunch of youth teams/academies were honored for something. It was never clear what it was but there were a ton of kids. So, extra families. (2) I think they marketed it a lot. I heard ads and a quick discussion by hosts on a local music radio station. And (3) it was an absolutely gorgeous evening.
That's really great that's finally happening for them....more exposure. That market has always been pretty dire, but if you can get more fans than Seattle? Low bar, but, at least they weren't at the bottom! Hopefully some of those families enjoyed themselves and will make it more regular!
That's part of why I call them Puget Sound WoSo Team. Not only is it their history, but it's also potentially their future... that is, not necessarily to remain in Seattle. I don't think that club has a strong future in Seattle without Pinoe and Fishlock, both of whom will retire someday. If they want to buy into the club to keep it there, that's one thing. But I remember clearly that Tony Parker said OL Groupe and he (as owning almost all of the shares between them) wanted the team in Miami. Tony may have been speaking out of turn, but he wasn't speaking out of ignorance.
Wait, who is Tony Parker and he said he wants OLR in Miami?!
I can't see Pinoe staying past this season, especially if they win something. Her partner is retired now and has become an investor in Gotham (she's from NY I think?) I don't see Pinoe staying in Seattle if she retires, she is always on the East Coast making appearances in New York City. Fishlock, I have no idea...I can see her playing for a while or at least staying in Seattle because it's been her US home and she's also engaged to Tziarra King now.
He's a famous French former NBA player who played in San Antonio (and formerly married to Eva Longoria).
Rich celebs always want teams in Miami -- see Beckham, David -- but I don't see the Reign getting moved, especially with the recent "support" from Lumen/Seattle.
Haha true. I thought Thornando was saying this Tony Parker was saying he wanted OL Reign specifically in Miami...I was like wow, that's news to me!
Support, though? They had 6k at their home game on a Sat night....I can't imagine anyone is making money like that. Lumen is huge and prob pretty expensive to run during those games.
Ohhhh, yea that's an interesting wrinkle. OLR def have lots of folks who own shares for the club with no attachment to Seattle. Does anyone who owns any of the shares have local ties? Bummer for them, but seemed risky to sell to OL Groupe in the first place.
Yes, *that* Tony Parker. Won multiple NBA championships (4?) with the Spurs. He also owns a basketball team in Paris, IIRC. And there was a big kerfuffle over this back in December 2020. Parker's going to make a lot from the OL Reign sale, as he acquired a 3% share for something like $100K. Or, he could be given a chance to buy it with others when OL Groupe sells their majority interest (and presumably the Predmores hit the bricks too).
A defensive issue that has bugged me for years came up again on NC's third goal. Look again at Menges isolated on the left against Wingate, and look at the amount of open space behind her. There's no Thorn backing up Menges and defending that space. When Menges gets beaten, which is going to happen to *every* defender once in a while, Wingate has a free run up to very close to goal. One of the several free midfielders needs to drop into that space to back up Menges.
Teams that are good defensively don't let these big spaces open up so close to goal. We need to be one of those teams.
That makes me crazy also. I saw that goal before it happened because nobody was hustling to get into that space to defend behind Menges. When it happened, I was like, Welp. This is the pros...teams are gonna score that goal if they can get past you like that!
Parsons is very good at getting talented players to work together. I’m not sure he’s ever going to be tactically in the top half of coaches, but he is a tremendous team builder if the players can get over that point
If he manages to snag a 'ship with the Spirit, MarPar will join the very slender ranks of NWLS managers with multiple. Given their vast underperformance last year as defending champions, I have to believe the squad are as hungry as the hippos in that game. Nom-nom-nom.
I think Washington are a very good team; I think I want to see if they can win back to back. One reason why I have Seattle in tier one is because of what they did last year, which still factors into how i'm thinking
It's not Sauerbrunn - who's been solid with just occasional brainfarts like passing directly to Tiffany Salmon 20 yards from goal - being there or not (and Menges, despite her run of recent form, has commanded defenses that did better than this one) it's 1) the backline as a unit, 2) Bixby making technical errors that have to shake her backline's confidence, and 3) the midfield, which has Sam Coffey, Dunn who's 90% attack, and Sinc, who's reverting to 2022 practice-cone-mobility levels.
If it WAS just "let's get Sauerbrunn healthy" it'd be easy-peasy. I think it's more complex and more difficult than that. Moultrie or Rodriguez has to start over Sinclair. Bixby has to either tighten up her shot group or sit for Hogan. And I'm not sure whether Norris has the moxie to do any of that.
While I think every defender has had some Peak Bozo moments (Kuikka last week, conceding the free kick Ertz scores from), when almost all of them are playing poorly it points to a larger issue. Three-four players in a unit don’t all of a sudden play badly because they’re bad players.
That’s kinda my point; our backline has been struggling; it’s not on any individual (for better or worse); it’s organizational…or, rather, LACK of organization and direction. I assumed that was why the club wanted Sauerbrunn; to be the organizer back there. But so far that doesn’t seem to be happening. Way too much scrambling and people ballwatching or missing marks. Not sure why the coaching staff isn’t more arsed about that…
Here’s one thing I see as part of the problem with moving Sinc to the bench; she’s not visibly bad enough.
Re-viewed thru her sub off her plus-minus net is positive. Not much; +9/-4...and included cute little bits like her part in the second Dunn goal.
That's enough - plus her couple of good opening month outings, plus nepotism - so I can see that it’s gonna be hard for someone on the coaching staff to make a case that Captain Canada, GOAT, should sit in favor of a high school kid.
I think the numbers are wrong, frankly; I think what’s missing is that Sinc doesn’t get MORE negatives because she can no longer get to where she’s involved in play. It’s the low overall times she gets a touch, not how well she does with it, that’s a problem.
But I’m not sure that’s going to make enough difference to move her off the pitch, unfortunately.
Right the thing about statistics in football is they're pretty good at telling you what happened on the ball and with the ball. They're not good at telling you about what happened off the ball, which might be the most important component of the game.
In this case the evidence of absence is the absence of evidence; the small number of times Sinc shows up “doing something”, positive OR negative. That matches the eye test; all too often she’s behind the play, jogging to catch up.
It’d make sense if she WAS doing something “off the ball”…but I’m not sure what that would be. I don’t see opponents avoiding her, so it’s not being such an effective defender as to deny her part of the field to the opposition. Making runs to draw defenders? Not seeing that. Pressing effectively? I count that as a defensive “plus” when I see it, and I’m not seeing it.
So in this case I DO think her numbers tell a story; one of a player who “isn’t there”…
Most of Sinc's decline isn't ever going to show up in PMRs because it's what she's *not* doing - pressing, being open for playmaking, being high up on counterattacks - that's the problem. Those sorts of vacuums don't show up much in PMRs except, as you point out, her overall numbers are low.
Yeah, the way this team wants to play was shown off with Rocky, Hina, and Sam last year. They were all committed to pressing, playmaking, and defending.
I think Olivia or Rocky being in the starting lineup helps the starting XI especially Sam who is doing so much more defending this year.
Yeah. It's the gross. To give you a measure, Hina (who is another Thorn in solitary confinement out at RW) was +4/-5. But Smith was +17/-11, Dunn was +16/-7, Coffey +11/-7.
Right....the players who are positioned incorrectly aren't getting on the ball and are having little impact on the game state. Hina needs a move and so does Sinc. Where, that's a different story, but those are two obvious square pegs.
Yeah I think you nailed it- it’s not that she’s a giveaway machine, it’s that she’s literally not in the places she needs to be to make plays both offensively and defensively because she physically can’t keep up with the pace of play.
Right! In baseball you can have an incredible fielding percentage but be a crap 2B because you have no range, you don't get to anything, and you don't attempt to make difficult plays.
I had my eyes opened when I did a deep-dive to look up how many NBA Hall-of-Famers or merely just multi-time All-Stars had lots of games with high turnovers (like 10+ in a game) and/or had high per-game TO averages. It's an incredible list of some of the greatest offensive players, not just scorers but also playmakers/facilitators. Not exactly a group of selfish, careless, ham-fisted players.
There are good mistakes and there are bad mistakes. You live with the people who are making the good mistakes because those mistakes are putting pressure on the defense, creating opportunities that just didn't work out, etc.
But the ones who aren't challenging themselves? They might have nice or non-objectionable stats, but the whole team is suffering because of what they're not doing and not even trying to do.
What does that tell us about our Thorns? Not sure, but I don't like it when I don't see Sinc getting within 10 yards of a ball that's hers to pressure, thus leaving it to everybody else around her and behind her to pick up the slack.
I'm not accusing Sinc of not hustling or being a bad teammate; of course that's not who she is. I just think she can't do it for very long, and not every day. And that hard reality has the same effect as a bad mistake/lack-of-effort mistake.
So I'd rather have someone out there who is capable of making good mistakes -- I'll live with those kind of mistakes for what they produce.
What’s sad is that I don’t and wouldn’t for a moment even think that Sinc is jakin’ it. I think she’s giving her 110%…but her physical powers are now such that her 110% is 70% of 2018 Sinc. In a league where young players are increasingly technically sophisticated and benefit from changes in fitness training and nutrition.
And every so often she IS; not enough, IMO, but that if you want to you can point to those as proof that “her experience and soccer intelligence is still an important contribution!”
I’m kind of defeatist about this. I think we need the club to be creative about her (and other issues, like Bixby and the backline) and instead I think we’re gonna be caught in the defending champions “it’s not REALLY broke so don’t fix it!” trap.
Oh I’m the same way- It’s a waste of energy to get too upset because she’s gonna play....but games like last night really test me.
Thing is, we were in this same situation (I’d argue worse) last season. There are definitely issues, but *every other NWSL team has issues too.* The Reign have the fewest, but they’re hardly perfect.
So on one hand, it’s frustrating because this team could easily be the clear best team in the league if they cleaned up some stuff....but they’re always going to be in the championship/shield competition barring a real collapse on talent alone. Until it gets really bad, we’re unlikely to see a change.
That was what frustrated me about post-2017 Parsons. To me it was obvious that 1) Riley (spit!) had his tactical number, and 2) he had some game-management and tactical blindspots that could be exposed in a knockout game. He never did solve them.
And I think it’s because you’re right; so long as the club is “”good enough” the demand to be better is going to be missing.
Y'all are way more level-headed about this than I am lol. I am resigned to watching her drag this team slowly down the table, but I will still be loudly mad about it haha. But, you're right to say, well, we're scoring a lot so something is working, but it's the defensive side she's really mucking up...and it won't change until they start losing games, and maybe not even then either...it's more what she's not doing at all than what she's doing wrong. She just can't be what's asked of her. She's always a step behind and is totally unable to apply any pressure, so Sam just gets easily passed by, and then there goes the whole midfield....I'm pretty sure I'd be able to dribble around her at this point. The best position for her is a late sub for the 10, where her leadership and calm can be utilized as well as her ability to slow down the play (for better or worse), and also limits her defensive responsibilities. We aren't maximizing her strengths and limiting her weaknesses like we could be...
We get points despite Sinclair, because we have absolutely world-class talent on the team...but not because of her. This team could be NC dynasty era threatening with the players we have. I mean, Racing and Orlando's midfield looks more cohesive than ours at points lol. That's hard to do with the players we have...
As my game thread comments from yesterday probably indicate, I don’t know whether I would call myself level-headed about it- I hate everything to do with the Sinc situation and wish it would go away.
On the other hand, I still love watching this team and they did win a title just last season, issues and all. Is it frustrating that we’re not able to reach the level the talent indicates we should be at? Hell yes. But I try to keep some perspective even as a pretty rabid sports fan- A few decades of blazer/mariner fandom make me appreciate rooting for a perennial league favorite every year more than I might otherwise.
Ultimately, hopefully this is the last year we have to bitch about this and new ownership takes full control....but yeah, as fandom goes, being a Thorns fan is a relative luxury and I try to remember that. That doesn't mean we can't keep expectations high, but having a team chock full of super likable, talented, and motivated players isn't the worst place to be.
It's not "level-headed"., it's "I'm not gonna win this argument, ever". It's resignation. Doesn't make it any less irritating, just less agitating. It's kind of like when you get pulled over and you KNOW it's a bullshit stop. But it's a cop. Arguing will just get you coldcocked AND a ticket.
OT: Who the F*** Is Tony Parker? (and does he still want to be a WoSo owner even after OL Groupe sells OL Feminin and Puget Sound WoSo Team?)
Parker, affectionately known as the Former Mr Eva Longoria, owns a 7.5% stake in Puget Sound WoSo Team (aka OL Reign).
Park is also the President and majority owner of ASVEL Basket, which is located in Lyon and is the most successful club in the history of the French Pro A League.
Parker played for ASVEL in 2011 and became ASVEL President in 2014. His brother, TJ Parker, is ASVEL's coach.
In June 2019, OL purchased a 25% stake in the ASVEL men's basketball team, plus a 10% stake in the ASVEL women's team, in a deal worth around €3.7 million.
Then, in December 2019, OL Groupe purchased 89.5% of Reign FC, while Parker purchased 7.5% of the club.
Here's more on the OL Groupe plans to sell OL, and what that might mean for Puget Sound WoSo Team if not also Parker.
I understand that Sinclair has been a big part of this team's history, but the Thorns need to realize that she's no longer one of their best eleven.
She is the GOAT, no doubt.
My biggest concern is having players leave because they deserve to start and don't get the chance to do that each match in Portland.
Yeah, I've been worried about that for 2-3 seasons now honestly. I feel bad that they signed Rocky for three more years in the offseason, after she was starting games (and looking great at the end of the season!) and then Dunn kinda took her spot, and now she's locked into a long contract.
I really don't think she needs to go from "being a starter" to "retiring", but I wish that she/coach was more comfortable with a sub role for her. Her leadership is super valuable to have around the team, but not at the expense of taking starting minutes from other players at this point.
Sadly, Mother Nature and Father Time are undefeated. It happens to everyone, to a different degree and at a different time, but it happens nonetheless.
https://twitter.com/chris_awk/status/1655769544340774913?s=20
Lmao hahahaha Smith’s running laps around everyone and hasn’t even particularly good lately.
(Also, check out the passing numbers- Quality still needs to improve, but she is passing a lot more. I think Dunn has really helped)
Reminds me of when Macario was at Stanford and she basically broke his player rating system, because she ranked 2 or 3X higher than the next best player. Soph, gettin' it done.
Dismayed to see zero Thorns in the top defensive list, but it also affirms what the eyes have been telling us.
Yes, though defensive duel percentage is hardly a good measure of defensive efficacy: It’s more “how good are you at ball winning.” There’s a lot of players on subpar defenses on that list.
(Not saying this to excuse the Thorns, but usually “goals allowed” is the best defensive metric imo)
Yeah, even after a pair of 3 goals allowed matches Portland still leads his "Post-Shot xG Differential Chart." I'm joining the "Let's get Becky back out there" chorus, even if it's partly the leaky midfield.
https://twitter.com/chris_awk/status/1655806530539646979?cxt=HHwWhsCz2YjRzfotAAAA
I think she's passing a lot more because teams are forcing her out of goal-scoring positions. Like, they're denying that space in behind. If she becomes this multi-faceted they're going to have to figure out if they want to stop her creating or stop her shooting.
She’s also trying a lot of through balls, however those are defined in the metric.
Eye test says she could use some work on accuracy, timing, and weight of pass, but it’s interesting how many she’s played given the only real player with pace who plays alongside Smith is Weaver.
I thought that part was strange also...Hina is def not a "run-onto-a through-ball-and-score" type of winger, like at all, especially on the R side. She doesn't have the pure speed or speed w/dribbling ability, and is left-footed. I'm not sure what the hell to do with Hina, esp with Sinc and Dunn so cemented in MF, but I think we need more speed, stretch, and threat on the R side than Hina can give. If we can't have Dunn there, I'd like to see D'Aquila or Leon start with the A team.
However, I do fear with pulling Hina and using a pure winger, the midfield will become even worse, since she often drops back much of the time. It all comes back to problem #1...
Dang it would be so great if the Thorns could find a young, fast RW that works well with Smith and Weaver up front. Someone with speed and some aerial ability. Hey, Gotham has somebody like that... never mind, she's not looking for CWNT minutes, so I guess that's not going to happen.
I can't state strongly enough that Hina needs to be playing alongside Dunn in the middle...but gotta give Sincy her 70+ minutes every feckin' game.
Jesus wept...
Even if we're not allowed to drop Sinclair to the bench, it would still help to simply swap Dunn and Sugita. Dunn would do well as a winger in a 4-3-3 and Hina so obviously belongs in midfield.
Agreed. That swap seems obvious to me...so what am I missing that a professional coaching staff isn't?
I assume that the count is referring to successful passes, but she often tries to play ball through to Hina or others when the pass isn’t really on.
She does have a lot of moments where she breaks pressure on the turn and feeds one of the fullbacks, but those aren’t usually what I would classify as “through balls.” Who knows- it’s not like 9 through balls over 6 games is a tremendous amount anyways.
3 in the top 10 for the Thorns. AC has two. No one else with more than 1. Hope we aren’t wasting this offensive output
I feel like we are, by not taking care of the midfield, and then the dominoing defensive issues....the offense is producing enough to be dominating games!
Oh shi..., just posted this too hah! Soph is so good. Three Thorns on that list! Soph and Dunn's partnership has been super fun to watch.
Way-Too-Early-Power-Rankings: Trail of Tiers Edition
Tier I: Tiers in Heaven
(1) Puget Sound WoSo Team
(2) Washington
(3) Gotham
Tier II: Lonely Tierdrops
(4) Portland
(5) SD
(6) ACFCNFT
Tier III: Tiers for Fears
(7) KC
(8) NC
(9) Orlando
Tier IV: Tiers of a Clown
(10) Houston
(11) Louisville
(12) Chicago
My power rankings are coming out soon.
I am not that high on Gotham as they continue to play down to their competition every single week. However, this is peak post-injury Lynn Williams :)
I have my bottom three different, because they just don't have upside to climb out by the end of the season. Houston and Racing have a chance to get out of it, but not sure if Dash's midfield and Racing's inexperience will allow that.
Going to be an interesting season. Thanks for sharing your rankings, I have the top 6 the same, just different order.
I am not high on Gotham either, but someone's gotta be #3 for awhile!
I think Portland have been tumbling for a few weeks now. This is my personal wake-up call to the team.... because *of course* they care what *I* think!
Agreed: we've been shipping stupid goals of late. I remember when we used to be the best defensive team in the league...one of the best in the world. I miss those times.
The counterpoint to that is we have the second best xG against and the best xG difference per 90 in the league, both of which were almost true last year (well we were .8 xG worse than San Diego, so 3rd xG against). The question for me: is what we've seen over the last two games somewhat random bad luck or is the advanced data missing something? I'm genuinely unsure, but my guess is a mixture of both: the advanced data misses some of the structural issues because they don't always lead to what look like great chances or shots, but we've also been a fair bit and randomly unlucky (Bixby not getting the foul against Angel City; Kerolin's shot hitting the inside of the post; Menges's deflection going in, not behind for a corner).
I think some of it really is just bad luck: some of the goals are less "stupid" than they are "fluky" (or, in the case of Ertz clobbering Bixby, shit-tier officiating) But we've seen the back line under undue pressure because of midfield problems - much discussed, so I'll not reiterate - and Bella's had some very bad moments (she CANNOT keep conceding at the near post...goalkeeping 101, ffs...).
Yeah, I would def not put Gotham above the Thorns, even with our issues. I think they've had some gritty wins where they kinda got lucky but I think they've been punching above their weight and they haven't faced super tough opponents yet. Their defense if super iffy for me, and Abby Smith has been very up and down....Lynn Williams has been the only bright spot consistently, but they're gonna need more than that long-term. I'd still put them around 5/6. The Spirit though...they did look really good in that SD game. Still wanna see if that can be consistent...I do have those same top 6 also, just like Phuoc though, mine are a different order.
I think it's weird to be playing HOU again so soon after already playing them, and we haven't even played other teams yet! The fact that we haven't even played SD, OLR, or Washington though has me wondering how far we could slide down the table....
I agree, and Portland will return to my Tier 1 as soon as they start playing like they belong there.
But...
Last 4 matches, Thorns are 1-0-3 and 7 goals conceded against Houston at home, Louisville at home, ACFCNFT at home, and NC away.
Thorns and Gotham have mostly common opponents through 6 matches. Only differences being Houston and Louisville for Portland and Chicago and Puget Sound WoSo Team for Gotham.
Thorns are 3-0-3 while Gotham are 4-2-0, but one of their losses is Puget Sound WoSo Team and Thorns are damn lucky not to be 3-2-1 right now.
It is a long season and at least eight teams will be in contention for the six spots for the championship. The Thorns and the Reign are the only ones I am certain of because the next six I think are all good, but flawed. San Diego, Washington, Gotham, Houston, KC and AC are all pretty good teams, but not Thorns/Reign level in my opinion. I think the WC break will shift a lot of things around, but Portland and Seattle have the depth and the experience I think to overcome the massive loss of starters.
There was some debate in the match thread whether the Thorns issues are structural or whether it's mostly a Sinc issue. I could write a book on the how a real 8 would impact the way Norris wants his 4-3-3 to play, but it really just comes down to:
1. Sinc can't defend like a real 8 mainly because she doesn't have the stamina or speed to cover, but also because she's *been a striker her whole career.* She doesn't want to defend, and she doesn't have the ability to be an effective 8 even if she did. She, and Dunn, to a lesser extent, leave Sam completely isolated, which accentuates Sam's weaknesses and hides her strengths. Playing without a functional 8 also makes it impossible to play out through the midfield, leading to some of the bad giveaways we've seen from Coffey and the defenders.
2. She can't press. Norris wants to press. If one member of your press can't press, the press not only doesn't work, it leaves giant gaps behind it.
3. Her lack of ability to play and connect in the attacking spaces (strengths of Rocky and Moultrie) forces Kling high, leaving gaps in behind. In both of the last two games, Sam and the two FBs have looked much more comfortable doing their jobs with Moultrie on and Sinc off.
But most importantly? Moultrie is really fucking good. Not just "good for 17 good," either. Sometimes, it's just a matter of playing your best players in the right positions. (Rocky- Also good!). Cmon now!
Yeah, I'd try Hogan over Bixby for a few games and they definitely miss Becky, but the root of the most easily identifiable issues is Sinc. If the Sinc minutes are direction from Karina --I can't imagine Norris is dumb enough to fail to see the issue-- the new owner should fire her immediately. Thank god they won a title last year, cause I don't think I could take the mere possibility having had this talented a team and having nothing to show for it.
Anyway- End of rant. Liv's goal was dirty and the second goal is up there with the best Thorns goals I've ever seen. Love this team, just tired of the club legend refusing to walk off into the sunset.
Yeah, Bev Priestman was here at Prov Park at field level with KK the game after Beckie tore her ACL. Wouldn’t be surprised if Team Canada wanted a “fit Sinclair” from her good friends, the Thorns, leading into the WC. Norris is also from Team Canada. It’s all a bit problematic to me, but I can’t tell if it’s true nepotism or if it’s because KK just doesn’t have the Rolodex for anyone else. Or, if no one else wanted the job. Literally the only people, players and staff, that she’s brought in during her tenure have been Canadian.
I can tolerate an inexperienced GM who may not be the best at bringing in big signings and relies on connections, even it bothers me. Hell, I don’t like the Portlanada stuff, but it’s not like Beckie or Leon are starting matches over other players.
I can’t tolerate a GM interfering on game day in any capacity. I don’t know if it’s nepotism or just deference to a Canadian legend, but if it’s anything else than “the coach thinks Christine Sinclair deserves to be playing based on her play,” it’s unacceptable and fireable.
We just don't know whether or not that's happening.
What we do know, from last year's playoffs, is that Sinc sat almost all match long in the semifinal. Rhian came to that decision and communicated it to Sinc. So, it can happen. I'm confident Norris has the same ability.
Benching Sinc in a semi was brave and it worked. It was also the only time we saw it all season.
I think it’s tempting as fans to see a grand conspiracy where Karina and Sinc are mafia bosses dictating from above.....but it’s far more likely that both RW and Norris are/were first year coaches unwilling to make a decision that excludes a club legend in a WC year. I just struggle to believe a professional coach can’t see how she negatively impacts the team, especially given how Norris wants to play.
Yeah, I don't think it's a grand conspiracy where there is this great intent to be a farm for all the Canadian players pre-WC...it's more sensible in that the relationships of all those folks do impact the decision-making processes...this is like the 3rd season now where Sinc should have been a bench player.
I think it's probably this. I also think it's significant RW did it at the end of the season, when she had the trust and buy in of the players (before...everything). I doubt Norris has that.
You should also consider that Sinc started the year playing very well and is still an opportunistic playmaker. I believe she’s better off playing the last 15 to 20 minutes of the game so she doesn’t have to conserve her energy and is playing against fatigued / slower players.
True, but then she benched Hina and started Sinc in the final, I think for the first time all season. I think it worked fine because KC was bad, and because we still had more two-way coverage with Rocky playing lights-out games in the semi and final.
True, but I think Beckie would have if she was still healthy. Rhian had her starting as soon as she arrived at wingback (ugh), moved Natu and created a mess there, then moved her to RW for half the season. It was only until she looked really poor and still hadn't assisted or scored that Yaz finally started coming in. And, she looked better, so it would've been a difficult ask to not keep starting Yaz. But that was like towards the middle to end of the season....
With Yaz gone and no dedicated RW, I think Hina would've been benched for her this season because she's an actual winger. I read somewhere that she was "due to have a big role this season for the Thorns" before her injury. Maybe I'm assuming too much there, but it's hard to have a big role on the bench...
It's possible, but I really think this is a Sinc issue, not a Canadian one. I saw no real indication either this year or last that Beckie was getting preferential treatment. Beckie played RB early last season because Kling was out for a long time and Nally was the only other option. Once Yaz started playing better, she started getting the starts- which is how it should be.
That doesn't mean she wasn't going to be an important player- She's the only natural right winger in a spot getting backfilled by a rookie striker. I just don't think anyone has an automatic spot except Sinc lol
Right, it’s not like Leon is getting preferential minutes. She’s getting minutes that Vasconceulos was getting.
Totally, I'm not saying this feeds into some Canadian conspiracy or anything....I think the Sinc issue is very different from Beckie (who is new to the club and I don't think has even contributed an assist yet for the club.) Sinclair is a club legend whose time starting games is up. I just think Beckie would've (at least eventually) started at RW because she may be more effective than poor Hina out there.
Beckie had two assists last year but no goals. I was bummed when she missed that shot in the final because how great would it have been for her to score her first Thorns goal in the final?
Plus we would have had another goal!
I’m actually quite fine with leveraging relationships to upgrade our roster. I’m not quite understanding why this is an issue at all. I also believe the roster composition under KK have been among the best in the league and am not willing to accept some of the rumors that appeared to be based on Gavin’s opinions having much merits
The fact that we’re having the least athletic and mobile person in the Nwsl play a position that I’d argue has thee highest need for stamina and athleticism is almost kinda funny to me at this point. Like, Sinc…an 8?! In what universe lmao.
We have two 10’s and one that’s a parking cone. it’s why our midfield sucks. Umm, if Vlatko can’t make it work with Lavelle and Horan, it will not work here. It doesn’t. I feel for Sullivan, who likely also looks worse than she actually is. Same problem that I can’t unsee watching this team play. Sam is pretty slow, and really doesn’t have that in her toolkit to cover ground like that. Use her to her strengths and she’s one of the best 6’s in the league.
That’s Norris’ biggest issue: Watch his press conference- He wants to play on the front foot and press so so so badly, but he also clearly feels he can’t bench Sinc. His whole philosophy is predicated on having someone who plays like Crystal Dunn execute that press, and Sinc just can’t do it, which creates massive issues in all facets of the game.
He also said that he thought our defense looked fine....in fact I think he said he thought they looked good lmao. No.
Think that was just a way to avoid calling out Menges and Bixby tbh- I was more concerned that he didn't seem to mention all the space in midfield after Kassouf/Yang asked about caught out a few times.
He could say defense needs work, though, but he took the question further and said they were good or fine (I forget the exact wording used.) I think the fullbacks have been problematic as well. CB's are way exposed because the fullbacks have been playing like wingbacks and don't get back fast enough. The whole defensive setup looks bad, it's not just individual players. I think it points to more structural issues when everyone in defense looks bad, with Sam included in that.
I suspect that he thinks that Sinc gives them something that we're not recognizing. I don't believe Norris thinks he can't sit her any more or any less than Rhian did.
I don’t *really* believe that he’s being directly told “you have to play Sinclair,” but I do think he feels pressure to play her for non-soccer reasons....if that makes sense.
If he thinks her on-field impact justifies her inclusion in any way, then he’s failing as a manger. And I don’t think he’s a bad manager.
Fwiw, RW sat Sinc in the semi, but that was really the only time we saw it happen. Again, I don’t think it’s a mandate from above, but I do believe that only a high-powered outside hire would have the ability to bench Sinc and neither Norris or RW are of that profile.
He probably thinks she's earned the right to show that she can't do it. Which is fair.
She's shown she can't do it or about three years now, with the occasional G/A mixed in. If he doesn't have enough data yet...well, I'm not sure what he's been doing the last two years.
Agreed.
And she's shown it. Time to get your shit together, Norris.
I think at this point Moultrie doesn't have to be the Next Marta. She's better than Sinc is in the #8 role, and that's what we need. So's Rodriguez, for that matter.
I still think that Dunn needs to either move up to the wing or back to LB. But I think it's worth trying one or the other of the two midfielders alongside her to see if they can work as a double pivot.
Her development could be easily sped up if she got more playing time, looks like it'll continued to be hindered this season. Hoping she gets max minutes during the WWC window.
I like Dunn where she is. Her moving to LB isn't an option, but the midfield one you bring up could be. I would like her to play more with Olivia or Rocky alongside Sam.
I think even Hina playing as an 8 is an option...she's clean on the ball and is great at connecting the lines (which we desperately need.) The only worry I have with her there is she doesn't quite have the athleticism that I'd like to see in an 8. Isn't that what she played last season at points?
Disagree on Dunn. She’s been our second best player and one of the best in the league so far at her current position. Your schemes should be driven to get your best players in a position to succeed. I’m super curious to see what happens if Horan comes back.
I had a general hypothesis that one of the reasons that Kling has stepped up so much is she wasn’t worrying about CB positioning with Becky there. The last few games seem to support that belief. I’m not sure if Menges has regressed or we are just spoiled
100% in regards to why Kling and Becky work so well. Such a great point.
My take is that Menges has a LOT of mental rust on her game right now, and is making positional errors she didn't make in the past. She's also not as able to make up for such errors with insane pace any more (although she's still our quickest CB by some margin).
I didn't want to overhype Moultrie until I really saw more the occasional flash and she's not there yet...but for a 17 year old to have the physicality to play in midfield and the pure ability to play with the technique and style she has is really special. No idea what her ceiling looks like, but she's supremely talented and still improving- I'm excited to see what she does during the WC.
Dunn just needs to play next to a real 8. Idc whether that's Moultrie or Rocky, but it needs to happen- If nothing else, it'll bring any underlying non-Sinc issues to light.
She has the potential to be a superstar and a big part of the USWNT in the next few cycles, for sure.
Agreed, the reason midfield balance isn't the same as last year. Dunn would absolutely excel next to Rocky or Olivia.
Moultrie has to be allowed to play more than 20-30 minutes to establish that she's the real deal, but we've now seen several examples of brilliance within limited minutes.
Yeah my read on it is Dunn makes really good late runs - which by the way we need because teams aren’t letting Smith go behind - and her close control is an asset. She’s not going to come deep because, like Sinclair, she’s an attacking player. Give her a free role, give the other central midfielder more parameters and I think that’ll help a lot of the balance issues that we’re seeing right now.
Her rapport with the frontline continues to improve to. Sophia and Morgan always try to find her in the box too. It's only going to get better and Portland will continue to score more off this.
Looks like they’ve been working on that late run to the top of the 6. It’s worked a couple time now and has been close another time or two
So far I'm really impressed with how far she's come. I'd like to see her go a full 90 against a good opponent before I'm ready to crown her the next Big Thing. But what she's shown so far this year and late last season is really, really promising.
I'm on this bandwagon as well. While it is a good idea to have the Sinc/Moultre pairing, I would start to reverse the order and play Moultre more than Sinc. Tough to tell a legend to come off the bench, but Sinc simply disapears as the game goes on. Norris needs to make the tough decision and flip the two of them, that is why he is the head coach. If he doesn't want to make the hard decisions, then he should pass the reigns on to someone who will.
I’ll buy that. The question is; will Norris?
It depends on whether he’s making errant rookie coaching decisions or whether he’s under direction to keep Sinc on the field.
If it’s the former, I think he’ll figure it out....but I think it’s more likely to be a version of the latter.
I agree with your (kielbj) analysis, but complicating all this is the fact that Sinc had a really good start in the first two (or three?) games, which makes it much harder to not start her. There's surely no justification, though, for playing her beyond 30 minutes. Her best use might be as a late sub, since that would avoid the implicit insult of pulling her at 30', but she would not be the typical speedster who comes in late to take advantage of opponents' fatigue.
A good point- Oneof the most impressive things about her start is that she looked shockingly good physically....which is no longer the case.
Yeah, I do wonder if that was more a function of just how poorly organized Orlando and KC started the season, especially on defense. The ball was in the opponent's half most of the games. Her defensive liabilities didn't really have a chance to be exposed at all in those games...better teams, well, it's been like 4 or 5 games now...
Probably a little, but she also looked straight-up spry those first two games. She also was clearly worse in the second halves of both. She's old- It makes sense lol
Not to re-start the Sinc conversation again, but Kassouf and Cascone come about as close as I’ve hear national media (though I think Watkins also tweeted about it on Saturday) come to implying that Moultrie should be starting over Sinc on the Equalizer pod.
Build the momentum baby!
Yeah, I noticed that too. Also, they noted that Moultie is going to get an extended audition during the WWC window; she will get all the opportunity she could want.
Yeah, she definitely will. There’s a few possible outcomes:
1. She’s awesome and displaces Sinc post WC and the STF board is universally overjoyed.
2. She’s awesome and then gets immediately replaced after the WC and the STF board burns the website to the ground.
3. She’s good but mostly just meh and nothing really happens except everyone’s vaguely disappointed.
I’d also point out that for all the angst over international losses, we’re actually in pretty good shape in the midfield. Coffey will likely be here, we have Moultrie, and Rocky will probably be back sooner than later because she plays for CR. The issues are gonna be in attack.
Yeah, I think Moultrie will be a big player during the WC, but my expectations aren't massive if we don't really give her much attack to work with. Moultrie with the first team will likely be a different player than Moutrie with a cobbled together midfield and forward line. Really though....who plays in midfield with Coffey and Moutrie? We don't even have a rookie to put there lol. (This is me eyeing Dagny who will not be at the WC....!) That would mean Moultrie would still need to play more of an 8 role. But, we will need probably two 8/10 midfielders for that period. Also, is it Weaver, D'Aquila, and Vasconcelos up top? Still hope KK can bring in an experienced RW from somewhere that isn't going to the WC, so Vasconcelos is more of a sub. Or, hear me out, bring in Mia Fishel for a short stint, and have D'Aquila wide. I hope she goes for some folks who will be valuable and not just filler.
If CR don't get out of the group stage (I feel bad even predicting that, but...) then Rocky would be gone from June 26th (when int'ls are released) to July 31st (their 3rd group game.) Likely would only miss two league games (next one isn't until Aug. 20th), and potentially could even be home for the final CC game (August 6th vs. OL Reign.)
Sorry KK-defenders, here comes another negative take:
This is a perfect example of how a GM who was good at her job could make a huge difference in constructing a roster:
-Thorns have like a half-dozen natural attacking mids, except when they're all gone.
-They have 3 natural LB's, but no natural backup RB.
-They have no natural RW.
As much as I like Rodriguez as a player, she's overkill where she plays- Thorns should have traded her in the off-season for a player/position of need. Now PTFC is just wasting her time and killing her trade value by having her ride the bench.
I’d put Porter at the 6. That frees up both Moultrie and Sam to play a little higher.
Also, Costa Rica is in a WC group with Spain and Japan. I’d have to imagine they don’t make it out, which means Rocky probably doesn’t miss more than a few games.
Could also do that Kling in midfield we saw at one point and wasn't bad. Then put McGrady (if healthy) or Reyes at LB. That way you at least have Porter as a sub option.
Certainly an option. I don’t love Kling at the 6 because you lose some mobility, but I’m sure she could do a job.
I have missed an explanation for Sinc's soft cast. What's ailing her? She avoids using that arm, noticeably.
I thought it was Sinc's tribute to “Canada’s Greatest Athlete,” pro wrestler Iron Mike Sharpe...
https://www.facebook.com/prowrestlinginsideandout/posts/iron-mike-sharpe/697857380899836/
BTW, Iron Mike *may* have used his wrist brace to cheat. As former Governor Jesse "The Body" Ventura is fond of saying "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat."
Also, apparently Iron Mike was also known for his OCD tendencies; backstage they called him "Mr Clean." Can't imagine a 1980s WWF locker room was particularly tidy.
Kassouf recognizing this is a breath of fresh air- too much of the NWSL media with the furthest reach is just fan-girls (looking at you, Sandra Herrera).
It was more Cascone tbf- She’s been a pretty good add to the pod imo.
Would love someone to have the gall to ask (gently) about starting other players who are performing well. Coffey/Hina/Dunn would be a combo I'd like to see also....we need an actual RW. I really don't care for Hina over there. I'm glad there is conversation elsewhere, though, we need media to be putting other ideas out there besides "Sinclair, still best player in the history of the earth."
Late to the party here, but since I was able to attend this game in person, I thought I'd add some thoughts.
(1) Kerolin is very good and ridiculously fast. You think she's fast and then she just goes turbo mode. Smith and Weaver seemed slow in comparison.
(2) All of the subs needed to happen earlier. People were visibly tired and slower to get back on the Pickett goal.
(3) I think there might have been a plan for Rocky to come on with Moultrie? I thought she was warming up with Liv (it was the far side from my seat, so hard to see but I thought it was her), but then she didn't go on. So maybe it was just a warm-up buddy, but given the previous sub patterns, it might have been a late scratch.
(4) Menges is rusty on decision-making and positioning. Understandable since she hasn't played regularly since 2021, but really needs to be sorted out soon.
(5) Carolina's CBs were marking Smith heavily. Lots of small fouls off the ball. If other teams are going to play that way, Smith needs to pass quicker and our other forwards needs to be there. But Weaver is the only one who can keep up, though Dunn is close.
(6) Liv's goal was beautiful and absolutely shocked the stadium.
5. is a concern carryover from last season. She drew a ridiculous # of fouls but the tally represented but a fraction of the times she got knocked to the rug. She's still young but that pounding will accelerate her aging process, and not in the good way.
Sans Debinha, Kerolin has become the focus of their offense and she's grown into the role. Damn it. I can't name a scarier attacker not named Smith.
I've watched Sinclair since her freshman year at UP and she is my all-time favorite player in any sport. She has it all and is of value to any side. But her ability to turn on a dime and deliver devastating balls to others charging the goal or to fake one way, turn the other, and shoot hard and accurately is gone. Again and again I see her a step late going after 50:50 balls when she once would have been a step ahead. Her mind is amazing but her body has slowed.
I don't follow the Canadian NT at all (unless playing the US or in a big competition), but is Sinclair really their best option? I love her to death too, but it is time to admit she is 40 playing professionally with people half her age.
I am halfway convinced Canada isn't going to start her (for who, I don't know - as above) and she will be a sub trying to get late goals and an interesting "legend still inexplicably playing 10 years after most internationals hang it up" sort of story. If they think they are going to start her, will they even get out of their group?
They have some injuries at forward, sad to say. Honestly, it wouldn’t shock me if Sinclair pulled some energy out of the hat. She is as determined (when she truly wants it) as any player in any sport.
The Canadian media have been talking about how Sinc is going to have a much bigger role than anticipated with Beckie out....their depth at F is pretty lacking, esp with Prince still out. What they actually do, I have no idea, but if club is any indication....
They are in trouble if their best option is an immobile 40 year old. I mean there is still a role given her body size and skill set to be a target forward for younger faster players to run off. Her best chances to score will be PKs and I wouldn't expect a whole lot more if I was Canada.
I love your witty username!
Any chance Thorns pick up Ashley Lawrence? She's going somewhere soon. Chelsea? Tall order perhaps but this is Portlanada afterall. Sure would help defensively.
I'd even take Butcher Buchanan if it meant we could get Lawrence, or Fleming.
Does the club even have the roster space? There's 25 if you don't count Beckie as a SEI and Horan as a loan out, or 24 if Leon isn't counted as a loan in. The only reference I can find says that rosters are "22-26" which isn't helpful telling whether the club is capped out...
26 is the limit. I just saw NCC take a player off the 45-injury list today, and they specifically noted that it put them at the 26-player active roster threshold. Pretty sure we are at 26 actively right now, not including Beckie or Horan, who both aren't included in that. Add both of those and we're at 28. Once Leon leaves, we'll be back at 25, again not counting Horan or Beckie.
But, I think NTRP's don't count against the cap or limit, correct? I'm assuming we'll be able to get several players in for that short period, but may only have 1 real roster spot open after Leon leaves. Now....they could be saving that for Horan, which would put us back up to the threshold of 26...
PLEASE no more Canadians- we're all full here.
Lynn Williams with another goal, assisted by Sinead!
Wonder if maybe KC would like to re-do that Williams-to-Gotham trade, not just how they handled the communication?
Yeah if they were thinking "win now" with some of their acquisitions, trading Lynn Williams looks like a bizarre and costly decision.
In other news, I'd love to rescue Penelope Hocking from the Red Stars...she has quick and smart touches on the ball, makes great off ball runs, and has a real quick trigger...she can get shots and passes off quickly with little wind-up and I appreciate when a forward has that urgency (not many do imo.)
I really want Reyna Reyes to break out and convince me that picking her over Hocking was a smart move. Admittedly F is less a position of future need than LB, what with Kling not getting any younger (though she's still doing miraculously well), but still Hocking has looked better in the early going. There's a long way to go though.
I have absolutely no problem with the pick, most draft pundits had them both in the top 5 of their rankings.
She's improving every single week and getting more comfortable. If she had a full offseason I think this would be a slightly different discussion.
I'd love if we picked up a decent depth player at RB (an actual RB) so Reyna can really focus on working with Kling on improving her skills at LB. She seems much more comfortable there. It would be good for her and Tegan to compete for the sub role behind Kling (who is still playing pretty well overall.)
Picking her over Hocking and trading Ryan to get her, no less.
It had nearly healed and now you've gone and picked that particular scab. Hopefully Reyes eventually works out as starter, but she comes at a very high price and so far, I'm not seeing a lot from her or of her, for that matter.
I know I made my thoughts clear around the draft that Hocking would have been my pick, but I understand that Reyes’s position was more of a need. When it comes to the draft, I don’t believe in selecting for a position and D’Aquila looks very good
Portland is very lucky to always be in a BPA (best player available) selection process in the draft. I had them both ranked very closely so either was good. I still think Reyna is going to be one of the best players in this class when we look back.
It didn’t really make sense even before the crazy hot streak she’s currently on: Even if you’re really high on Michelle Cooper (I think she’ll pan out, but she’s not near the Alyssa Thompson tier), the composition of the rest of the squad makes it really tough to justify trading a WC caliber striker for a non-elite tier rookie.
(I admittedly didn’t mind it at the time because my philosophy is always “get the young talent,” but I also thought Cooper was going to be a little more of an instant-impact player)
Yeah, same re: Cooper. The drop off even between first and second pick is kinda nuts. Thompson is gonna be a Soph level problem in a few years, methinks.
Random fact from the weekend that I was baffled about: Attendance at Cary was about 7k. Gotta be a record for there lol. At Lumen? 6k! What a poor showing from Seattle on a Saturday night. I can't see how that keeps the lights on. Sure doesn't help their argument for a sale.
They had 5k on Wednesday for their challenge cup game, you'd think it'd be closer to 8-10k for a Saturday game.
Hopefully Starfire officially gets a renovation and can seat 10k in capacity in the near future.
I know the Reign will start training there soon too.
Is that what the goal is...for them to start playing at Starfire instead? I think they do already train there now, no?
Seattle’s fan support is embarrassing. It was mildly understandable when they had to play in Memorial and then Tacoma, but failing to get 10k to Lumen is ugly stuff.
Yeah, and at that cavernous stadium...6k is just sad.
I was at the North Carolina game on Saturday actually. There were a few factors that definitely helped the attendance number. (1) At halftime a bunch of youth teams/academies were honored for something. It was never clear what it was but there were a ton of kids. So, extra families. (2) I think they marketed it a lot. I heard ads and a quick discussion by hosts on a local music radio station. And (3) it was an absolutely gorgeous evening.
That's really great that's finally happening for them....more exposure. That market has always been pretty dire, but if you can get more fans than Seattle? Low bar, but, at least they weren't at the bottom! Hopefully some of those families enjoyed themselves and will make it more regular!
Took all of one soft summer evening at Providence, and a Thorns win to hook us on the entire NWSL concept. The commute is, however, a killer.
At Cary I think they get close to the 10,000 capacity only during the college cup.
That's part of why I call them Puget Sound WoSo Team. Not only is it their history, but it's also potentially their future... that is, not necessarily to remain in Seattle. I don't think that club has a strong future in Seattle without Pinoe and Fishlock, both of whom will retire someday. If they want to buy into the club to keep it there, that's one thing. But I remember clearly that Tony Parker said OL Groupe and he (as owning almost all of the shares between them) wanted the team in Miami. Tony may have been speaking out of turn, but he wasn't speaking out of ignorance.
Wait, who is Tony Parker and he said he wants OLR in Miami?!
I can't see Pinoe staying past this season, especially if they win something. Her partner is retired now and has become an investor in Gotham (she's from NY I think?) I don't see Pinoe staying in Seattle if she retires, she is always on the East Coast making appearances in New York City. Fishlock, I have no idea...I can see her playing for a while or at least staying in Seattle because it's been her US home and she's also engaged to Tziarra King now.
He's a famous French former NBA player who played in San Antonio (and formerly married to Eva Longoria).
Rich celebs always want teams in Miami -- see Beckham, David -- but I don't see the Reign getting moved, especially with the recent "support" from Lumen/Seattle.
Haha true. I thought Thornando was saying this Tony Parker was saying he wanted OL Reign specifically in Miami...I was like wow, that's news to me!
Support, though? They had 6k at their home game on a Sat night....I can't imagine anyone is making money like that. Lumen is huge and prob pretty expensive to run during those games.
I didn't mean fan support necessarily, more stability with the ability to play in Seattle, at Lumen, in a real stadium for the first time ever.
Parker did say he wanted the team in Miami tho- See the link below.
Ohhhh, yea that's an interesting wrinkle. OLR def have lots of folks who own shares for the club with no attachment to Seattle. Does anyone who owns any of the shares have local ties? Bummer for them, but seemed risky to sell to OL Groupe in the first place.
Will read that article, thanks!
Yes, *that* Tony Parker. Won multiple NBA championships (4?) with the Spurs. He also owns a basketball team in Paris, IIRC. And there was a big kerfuffle over this back in December 2020. Parker's going to make a lot from the OL Reign sale, as he acquired a 3% share for something like $100K. Or, he could be given a chance to buy it with others when OL Groupe sells their majority interest (and presumably the Predmores hit the bricks too).
https://www.sounderatheart.com/seattle-reign/2020/12/18/22188838/tony-parker-ol-reign-miami
A defensive issue that has bugged me for years came up again on NC's third goal. Look again at Menges isolated on the left against Wingate, and look at the amount of open space behind her. There's no Thorn backing up Menges and defending that space. When Menges gets beaten, which is going to happen to *every* defender once in a while, Wingate has a free run up to very close to goal. One of the several free midfielders needs to drop into that space to back up Menges.
Teams that are good defensively don't let these big spaces open up so close to goal. We need to be one of those teams.
That makes me crazy also. I saw that goal before it happened because nobody was hustling to get into that space to defend behind Menges. When it happened, I was like, Welp. This is the pros...teams are gonna score that goal if they can get past you like that!
I'll wait on my Way-Too-Early Tiers-Based Power Rankings until tomorrow, but I'll say for now that I think Portland is moving to Tier 2 .
I have just Seattle in Tier One.
Washington might want a word?
They looked really good today. Parsons got an undrafted rookie humming in that midfield better than the veteran in ours…
Parsons is very good at getting talented players to work together. I’m not sure he’s ever going to be tactically in the top half of coaches, but he is a tremendous team builder if the players can get over that point
If he manages to snag a 'ship with the Spirit, MarPar will join the very slender ranks of NWLS managers with multiple. Given their vast underperformance last year as defending champions, I have to believe the squad are as hungry as the hippos in that game. Nom-nom-nom.
They also have several young World Cup "bubble" players who are likely trying to play lights out to ensure their spot on that plane come July!
Yeah I think you gotta give it to Washington too, especially cause they beat Seattle.
I think Washington are a very good team; I think I want to see if they can win back to back. One reason why I have Seattle in tier one is because of what they did last year, which still factors into how i'm thinking
I'll disagree on the backline; they've had issues since KC. Possibly before, but Orlando was just too poor to expose that.
Their PMRs:
KC - Kuikka +11/-14, Hubly +11/-10, 'Brunn +10/-3, Kling +9/-8
HOU - Reyes (45') +3/-6, Kuikka (45') +7/-3, Hubly +6/-7, 'Brunn +9/-3, Kling +9/-14
It's not Sauerbrunn - who's been solid with just occasional brainfarts like passing directly to Tiffany Salmon 20 yards from goal - being there or not (and Menges, despite her run of recent form, has commanded defenses that did better than this one) it's 1) the backline as a unit, 2) Bixby making technical errors that have to shake her backline's confidence, and 3) the midfield, which has Sam Coffey, Dunn who's 90% attack, and Sinc, who's reverting to 2022 practice-cone-mobility levels.
If it WAS just "let's get Sauerbrunn healthy" it'd be easy-peasy. I think it's more complex and more difficult than that. Moultrie or Rodriguez has to start over Sinclair. Bixby has to either tighten up her shot group or sit for Hogan. And I'm not sure whether Norris has the moxie to do any of that.
While I think every defender has had some Peak Bozo moments (Kuikka last week, conceding the free kick Ertz scores from), when almost all of them are playing poorly it points to a larger issue. Three-four players in a unit don’t all of a sudden play badly because they’re bad players.
That’s kinda my point; our backline has been struggling; it’s not on any individual (for better or worse); it’s organizational…or, rather, LACK of organization and direction. I assumed that was why the club wanted Sauerbrunn; to be the organizer back there. But so far that doesn’t seem to be happening. Way too much scrambling and people ballwatching or missing marks. Not sure why the coaching staff isn’t more arsed about that…
Here’s one thing I see as part of the problem with moving Sinc to the bench; she’s not visibly bad enough.
Re-viewed thru her sub off her plus-minus net is positive. Not much; +9/-4...and included cute little bits like her part in the second Dunn goal.
That's enough - plus her couple of good opening month outings, plus nepotism - so I can see that it’s gonna be hard for someone on the coaching staff to make a case that Captain Canada, GOAT, should sit in favor of a high school kid.
I think the numbers are wrong, frankly; I think what’s missing is that Sinc doesn’t get MORE negatives because she can no longer get to where she’s involved in play. It’s the low overall times she gets a touch, not how well she does with it, that’s a problem.
But I’m not sure that’s going to make enough difference to move her off the pitch, unfortunately.
The last two paragraphs are telling.
Right the thing about statistics in football is they're pretty good at telling you what happened on the ball and with the ball. They're not good at telling you about what happened off the ball, which might be the most important component of the game.
In this case the evidence of absence is the absence of evidence; the small number of times Sinc shows up “doing something”, positive OR negative. That matches the eye test; all too often she’s behind the play, jogging to catch up.
It’d make sense if she WAS doing something “off the ball”…but I’m not sure what that would be. I don’t see opponents avoiding her, so it’s not being such an effective defender as to deny her part of the field to the opposition. Making runs to draw defenders? Not seeing that. Pressing effectively? I count that as a defensive “plus” when I see it, and I’m not seeing it.
So in this case I DO think her numbers tell a story; one of a player who “isn’t there”…
Most of Sinc's decline isn't ever going to show up in PMRs because it's what she's *not* doing - pressing, being open for playmaking, being high up on counterattacks - that's the problem. Those sorts of vacuums don't show up much in PMRs except, as you point out, her overall numbers are low.
Yeah, the way this team wants to play was shown off with Rocky, Hina, and Sam last year. They were all committed to pressing, playmaking, and defending.
I think Olivia or Rocky being in the starting lineup helps the starting XI especially Sam who is doing so much more defending this year.
Yeah. It's the gross. To give you a measure, Hina (who is another Thorn in solitary confinement out at RW) was +4/-5. But Smith was +17/-11, Dunn was +16/-7, Coffey +11/-7.
Right....the players who are positioned incorrectly aren't getting on the ball and are having little impact on the game state. Hina needs a move and so does Sinc. Where, that's a different story, but those are two obvious square pegs.
Yeah I think you nailed it- it’s not that she’s a giveaway machine, it’s that she’s literally not in the places she needs to be to make plays both offensively and defensively because she physically can’t keep up with the pace of play.
Right! In baseball you can have an incredible fielding percentage but be a crap 2B because you have no range, you don't get to anything, and you don't attempt to make difficult plays.
The Dave Kingman Factor, then...
I had my eyes opened when I did a deep-dive to look up how many NBA Hall-of-Famers or merely just multi-time All-Stars had lots of games with high turnovers (like 10+ in a game) and/or had high per-game TO averages. It's an incredible list of some of the greatest offensive players, not just scorers but also playmakers/facilitators. Not exactly a group of selfish, careless, ham-fisted players.
There are good mistakes and there are bad mistakes. You live with the people who are making the good mistakes because those mistakes are putting pressure on the defense, creating opportunities that just didn't work out, etc.
But the ones who aren't challenging themselves? They might have nice or non-objectionable stats, but the whole team is suffering because of what they're not doing and not even trying to do.
What does that tell us about our Thorns? Not sure, but I don't like it when I don't see Sinc getting within 10 yards of a ball that's hers to pressure, thus leaving it to everybody else around her and behind her to pick up the slack.
I'm not accusing Sinc of not hustling or being a bad teammate; of course that's not who she is. I just think she can't do it for very long, and not every day. And that hard reality has the same effect as a bad mistake/lack-of-effort mistake.
So I'd rather have someone out there who is capable of making good mistakes -- I'll live with those kind of mistakes for what they produce.
What’s sad is that I don’t and wouldn’t for a moment even think that Sinc is jakin’ it. I think she’s giving her 110%…but her physical powers are now such that her 110% is 70% of 2018 Sinc. In a league where young players are increasingly technically sophisticated and benefit from changes in fitness training and nutrition.
And every so often she IS; not enough, IMO, but that if you want to you can point to those as proof that “her experience and soccer intelligence is still an important contribution!”
I’m kind of defeatist about this. I think we need the club to be creative about her (and other issues, like Bixby and the backline) and instead I think we’re gonna be caught in the defending champions “it’s not REALLY broke so don’t fix it!” trap.
Oh I’m the same way- It’s a waste of energy to get too upset because she’s gonna play....but games like last night really test me.
Thing is, we were in this same situation (I’d argue worse) last season. There are definitely issues, but *every other NWSL team has issues too.* The Reign have the fewest, but they’re hardly perfect.
So on one hand, it’s frustrating because this team could easily be the clear best team in the league if they cleaned up some stuff....but they’re always going to be in the championship/shield competition barring a real collapse on talent alone. Until it gets really bad, we’re unlikely to see a change.
That was what frustrated me about post-2017 Parsons. To me it was obvious that 1) Riley (spit!) had his tactical number, and 2) he had some game-management and tactical blindspots that could be exposed in a knockout game. He never did solve them.
And I think it’s because you’re right; so long as the club is “”good enough” the demand to be better is going to be missing.
Y'all are way more level-headed about this than I am lol. I am resigned to watching her drag this team slowly down the table, but I will still be loudly mad about it haha. But, you're right to say, well, we're scoring a lot so something is working, but it's the defensive side she's really mucking up...and it won't change until they start losing games, and maybe not even then either...it's more what she's not doing at all than what she's doing wrong. She just can't be what's asked of her. She's always a step behind and is totally unable to apply any pressure, so Sam just gets easily passed by, and then there goes the whole midfield....I'm pretty sure I'd be able to dribble around her at this point. The best position for her is a late sub for the 10, where her leadership and calm can be utilized as well as her ability to slow down the play (for better or worse), and also limits her defensive responsibilities. We aren't maximizing her strengths and limiting her weaknesses like we could be...
We get points despite Sinclair, because we have absolutely world-class talent on the team...but not because of her. This team could be NC dynasty era threatening with the players we have. I mean, Racing and Orlando's midfield looks more cohesive than ours at points lol. That's hard to do with the players we have...
As my game thread comments from yesterday probably indicate, I don’t know whether I would call myself level-headed about it- I hate everything to do with the Sinc situation and wish it would go away.
On the other hand, I still love watching this team and they did win a title just last season, issues and all. Is it frustrating that we’re not able to reach the level the talent indicates we should be at? Hell yes. But I try to keep some perspective even as a pretty rabid sports fan- A few decades of blazer/mariner fandom make me appreciate rooting for a perennial league favorite every year more than I might otherwise.
Ultimately, hopefully this is the last year we have to bitch about this and new ownership takes full control....but yeah, as fandom goes, being a Thorns fan is a relative luxury and I try to remember that. That doesn't mean we can't keep expectations high, but having a team chock full of super likable, talented, and motivated players isn't the worst place to be.
It's not "level-headed"., it's "I'm not gonna win this argument, ever". It's resignation. Doesn't make it any less irritating, just less agitating. It's kind of like when you get pulled over and you KNOW it's a bullshit stop. But it's a cop. Arguing will just get you coldcocked AND a ticket.
OT: Who the F*** Is Tony Parker? (and does he still want to be a WoSo owner even after OL Groupe sells OL Feminin and Puget Sound WoSo Team?)
Parker, affectionately known as the Former Mr Eva Longoria, owns a 7.5% stake in Puget Sound WoSo Team (aka OL Reign).
Park is also the President and majority owner of ASVEL Basket, which is located in Lyon and is the most successful club in the history of the French Pro A League.
Parker played for ASVEL in 2011 and became ASVEL President in 2014. His brother, TJ Parker, is ASVEL's coach.
In June 2019, OL purchased a 25% stake in the ASVEL men's basketball team, plus a 10% stake in the ASVEL women's team, in a deal worth around €3.7 million.
Then, in December 2019, OL Groupe purchased 89.5% of Reign FC, while Parker purchased 7.5% of the club.
Here's more on the OL Groupe plans to sell OL, and what that might mean for Puget Sound WoSo Team if not also Parker.
https://www.sportico.com/business/sales/2023/ol-reign-nwsl-team-sale-lyon-1234719465/
Seems good for the Thorns:
https://twitter.com/chris_awk/status/1655769544340774913
Wow! Among the first nine on the list, only the Thorns have more than one, and we have three. Good work team!