Agree that against a better team, this could have been a different result given some of the defensive derps. But still — that was really fun. Both of Evander’s goals had some really lovely build up. And that second finish in particular was ⚡️🤩⚡️
One observation — the offense is pretty lopsided with almost every attack going down the righ…
Agree that against a better team, this could have been a different result given some of the defensive derps. But still — that was really fun. Both of Evander’s goals had some really lovely build up. And that second finish in particular was ⚡️🤩⚡️
One observation — the offense is pretty lopsided with almost every attack going down the right side. I get why that is from a player perspective. But it often developed into a really predictable scenario — get the ball down to touch outside the box on the right side, then a looping cross to the far post where Moreno was hopelessly outsized by two Vancouver defenders with almost no chance to get to the cross. Happened over and over.
That is xGioBall. I’d like to see them be able to adapt their sequences when they see things are not working.
But overall, a super fun night at the Park. A lot of great things to see, and it seems like the team is getting itself into order.
I feel like it's a little funny that anything bad the Timbers are doing is #gioball right now. I think if you look at the track record, he's been one of the more adaptable coaches in the league-- certainly more so than what we've been seeing out of veterans like Greg Vanney, Bruce Arena, Bob Bradley, Peter Vermes--guys who have *A System* and stick to it the vast majority of the time. There have been times under Gio that this team *has* tried to walk the ball into the net all the time and wouldn't pull the trigger and that wouldn't come off. There are times we're crossing too much with no runners in the box. Now we're playing chipped crosses in that don't work... Except when they do, and we scored a nice one last night. I'm not a huge Gio defender, but I'll stick up for him a little because we really don't know what he's telling the guys to do and what they're doing\not doing based on the plan. Maybe some of it is giving creative freedom to the players, maybe some of it is really trying to execute attacking patterns. We do see it ebb and flow. I'd say the team has improved over the past 4 games, in no small part due to getting players back from injury. I wouldn't say that lofted short crosses are a characteristic of Gio teams that I can trace back 5 years.
Eh, I've wanted Gio gone since early 2021, so I"m not the most objective judge, but I'm not sure I'd call him "adaptable". He hasn't said it publicly in a while, but at first he was very insistent that Portland were a counterattacking team. Which they were, until they very much weren't. And now I wouldn't say they''re so much "adaptable" as "desperately seeking some sort of identity".
This season's injuries haven't helped, but throughout 2021 and 22, the Timbers would try counterattacking, get shut down (not uncommon, or unique to the Timbers, once teams figure out that's what's going on), and then they'd...have no plan B. So they will try crosses, they'll try cutbacks, they'll try most everything, and sometimes it works and often it doesn't.
One of my criticisms of Gio is in that lack of a plan B; it's fine to want to be a counterattacking team, but there has to be a coherent plan B to fall back on if that doesn't work, and the Timbers don't seem to have one. That leads to a lot of scrambling around to try to figure out what to do and how to attack/play offense, and to frequent poor play when they can't.
Combine that with the persistent defensive sloppiness that has been another hallmark of recent Gioball, and that's why, even when the Timbers play as well as they did Saturday in stretches, I'm not convinced that Gio is the long-term answer as this team (hopefully) evolves into the post-Blanco and post-Chara(s) era.
I've sometimes thought the same thing. Notoriously there was that stretch back in 2021 where we didn't score for something like 4 games and that had me begging for a backup plan.
However, its nuanced. Gio might not be able to instill an entirely different, alternate style but he has had quite a few instances of good halftime adjustments that paid off.
Rifer had a sentiment a few months back that encapsulates the problem here: MLS (and especially the timbers) really seems to prefer being secretive and not cater to us nosey folks who want to know about stuff. We don't get the inside scoop and so we have to just extrapolate
But, like, playing style is visible. We don't need inside scoop to know they were once trying to be a counterattacking team; we don't need underlying numbers to see that they can't play any other style with any coherence. We can see that play out to varying degrees of success on the pitch.
Half time adjustments are important when things aren't working, but what's more important is being able to impose your style on an opponent from the very start as much as possible. And if a team doesn't have a style that works, that'll never happen.
It always makes me laugh when any Timber puts a ball in the air like that. There are maybe two guys on this team who can outjump anyone, and yet they still try it all the damn time. It's both hilarious and infuriating that that's the way Gio wants them to play, because it just doesn't work. Ever.
This is a team who should literally be trying to walk the ball into the goal more often than not - I mean that somewhat hyperbolically, but also do wish they'd focus more on passing and movement than getting in position to get outjumped on a hopeful cross yet again.
And yes - Evander was fantastic. It's fun to watch him get more comfortable.
Meh... when tactics are working, and attacking down our right side sure was, most teams use them until they don't. Then they try something else...
Moreno and Mosquera terrorized VANs right side. Santi used the threat of Mosquera running behind to freeze defenders and pull others out of the middle, then marauded his way across the box looking for runners to slip passes to. Worked a treat much of the time.
I'm all in favor of this team leaning into what they are built for, meaning an attacking team that is going to score more goals than the opponent. I don't think the defense is going to be great, so go out there and attack the other team. Are we going to lose some game 3-2, 4-2? Sure. But it would be a lot more interesting than playing conservative and trying to eke out a win. We have a lot of attacking players, I want to unleash them and put pressure on the opposition to score to win.
Agree that against a better team, this could have been a different result given some of the defensive derps. But still — that was really fun. Both of Evander’s goals had some really lovely build up. And that second finish in particular was ⚡️🤩⚡️
One observation — the offense is pretty lopsided with almost every attack going down the right side. I get why that is from a player perspective. But it often developed into a really predictable scenario — get the ball down to touch outside the box on the right side, then a looping cross to the far post where Moreno was hopelessly outsized by two Vancouver defenders with almost no chance to get to the cross. Happened over and over.
That is xGioBall. I’d like to see them be able to adapt their sequences when they see things are not working.
But overall, a super fun night at the Park. A lot of great things to see, and it seems like the team is getting itself into order.
I feel like it's a little funny that anything bad the Timbers are doing is #gioball right now. I think if you look at the track record, he's been one of the more adaptable coaches in the league-- certainly more so than what we've been seeing out of veterans like Greg Vanney, Bruce Arena, Bob Bradley, Peter Vermes--guys who have *A System* and stick to it the vast majority of the time. There have been times under Gio that this team *has* tried to walk the ball into the net all the time and wouldn't pull the trigger and that wouldn't come off. There are times we're crossing too much with no runners in the box. Now we're playing chipped crosses in that don't work... Except when they do, and we scored a nice one last night. I'm not a huge Gio defender, but I'll stick up for him a little because we really don't know what he's telling the guys to do and what they're doing\not doing based on the plan. Maybe some of it is giving creative freedom to the players, maybe some of it is really trying to execute attacking patterns. We do see it ebb and flow. I'd say the team has improved over the past 4 games, in no small part due to getting players back from injury. I wouldn't say that lofted short crosses are a characteristic of Gio teams that I can trace back 5 years.
Eh, I've wanted Gio gone since early 2021, so I"m not the most objective judge, but I'm not sure I'd call him "adaptable". He hasn't said it publicly in a while, but at first he was very insistent that Portland were a counterattacking team. Which they were, until they very much weren't. And now I wouldn't say they''re so much "adaptable" as "desperately seeking some sort of identity".
This season's injuries haven't helped, but throughout 2021 and 22, the Timbers would try counterattacking, get shut down (not uncommon, or unique to the Timbers, once teams figure out that's what's going on), and then they'd...have no plan B. So they will try crosses, they'll try cutbacks, they'll try most everything, and sometimes it works and often it doesn't.
One of my criticisms of Gio is in that lack of a plan B; it's fine to want to be a counterattacking team, but there has to be a coherent plan B to fall back on if that doesn't work, and the Timbers don't seem to have one. That leads to a lot of scrambling around to try to figure out what to do and how to attack/play offense, and to frequent poor play when they can't.
Combine that with the persistent defensive sloppiness that has been another hallmark of recent Gioball, and that's why, even when the Timbers play as well as they did Saturday in stretches, I'm not convinced that Gio is the long-term answer as this team (hopefully) evolves into the post-Blanco and post-Chara(s) era.
I've sometimes thought the same thing. Notoriously there was that stretch back in 2021 where we didn't score for something like 4 games and that had me begging for a backup plan.
However, its nuanced. Gio might not be able to instill an entirely different, alternate style but he has had quite a few instances of good halftime adjustments that paid off.
Rifer had a sentiment a few months back that encapsulates the problem here: MLS (and especially the timbers) really seems to prefer being secretive and not cater to us nosey folks who want to know about stuff. We don't get the inside scoop and so we have to just extrapolate
But, like, playing style is visible. We don't need inside scoop to know they were once trying to be a counterattacking team; we don't need underlying numbers to see that they can't play any other style with any coherence. We can see that play out to varying degrees of success on the pitch.
Half time adjustments are important when things aren't working, but what's more important is being able to impose your style on an opponent from the very start as much as possible. And if a team doesn't have a style that works, that'll never happen.
embrace the chaos, because you get goals like the second one. Guys just being creative.
Oh, for sure, and I'm not dogmatic about THERE MUST BE A STYLE AND IT MUST NEVER BE DEVIATED FROM. It's fun to watch something come from nothing.
But if all the Timbers do is play chaosball, that's not exactly sustainable long-term. There has to be some underpinning of a system to fall back on.
It always makes me laugh when any Timber puts a ball in the air like that. There are maybe two guys on this team who can outjump anyone, and yet they still try it all the damn time. It's both hilarious and infuriating that that's the way Gio wants them to play, because it just doesn't work. Ever.
This is a team who should literally be trying to walk the ball into the goal more often than not - I mean that somewhat hyperbolically, but also do wish they'd focus more on passing and movement than getting in position to get outjumped on a hopeful cross yet again.
And yes - Evander was fantastic. It's fun to watch him get more comfortable.
Meh... when tactics are working, and attacking down our right side sure was, most teams use them until they don't. Then they try something else...
Moreno and Mosquera terrorized VANs right side. Santi used the threat of Mosquera running behind to freeze defenders and pull others out of the middle, then marauded his way across the box looking for runners to slip passes to. Worked a treat much of the time.
I'm all in favor of this team leaning into what they are built for, meaning an attacking team that is going to score more goals than the opponent. I don't think the defense is going to be great, so go out there and attack the other team. Are we going to lose some game 3-2, 4-2? Sure. But it would be a lot more interesting than playing conservative and trying to eke out a win. We have a lot of attacking players, I want to unleash them and put pressure on the opposition to score to win.
D looks fine. Nothing to worry about.