Really can't overstate how damaging Izzy on the wing is. No pressure on the ball on the cross, doesn't have the defensive instincts of a winger, doesn't know how to make the wide runs (Fleming's been noticeably frustrated with her twice already), not technical enough to combine with the midfield.
It's not even her fault, it's just really bad decision making from the manager.
Lucky to be only down 1-0. Becky Sauerbrunn and Spaanstra have been the only two players I’d view as plus’s. Wonder when they are going to bring in Turner for Sinclair. Maybe the yellow card helps
For real... I think we might have gotten fleeced with a broken player. Clearly, she's got talent, so it's gotta be fitness/injury and if she can't play/recover at 21, she's not gonna be an asset long term. It's not even like she tore an ACL and might make a comeback after she recovers.
I mean we all know Sinc and Izzy aren't the best options either and they're starting.
The "something up" is just a coach who is deciding to play a vet over a 21 year old who hasn't been able to stay healthy. I don't agree with it, but so it goes.
Gentle reminder that Thorns conducted a mid-season “global search” for a coach that yielded an assistant to an assistant who no other NWSL team would even consider for a head coaching position, when they could have had the same guy after waiting for the season to play out to see if he could do anything different than I could have done, namely, rely on the singular strategy of Soph Hero Ball plus prayer.
This team is still clearly behind Orlando, KC, and probably Gotham, but it's astounding how much worse the Izzy/Dias/Sinc group makes the rest of the squad look. Every signing they've made has been about youth, pace, and athleticism and it just doesn't matter when that's your front line.
Yeah it was an underwhelming signing that we didn't need bc Ryan was starting to shine. It was also a reportedly very expensive one, and her salary was reported to be one of the highest in the league. It was a bit confusing considering Ryan looked good, and played well with Soph.
I had heard she was unhappy with her playing time when she made that ask, which was reasonable considering they brought in Beckie and she was playing a bunch until the latter 1/3 of the season. Had she gotten Beckie's minutes, I don't think that ask comes...what's the tea with her bf and training, I don't understand?
I thought I recall people having an issue with Ryan’s boyfriend being in the training facility despite rules that stated otherwise, but I could be remembering it wrong
Izzy, Sinc, and Spaanstra sounds like a throwaway game lol.
Sucks bc even 3 points here still puts us 1 point behind Gotham, but a loss puts us 7 points behind them for 4th place. Chicago and NC aren't far behind either.
Yeah, ugh another sad slog to watch. Growing pains and rebuilds are hard lol. What a great game to put on big CBS immediately after winning gold! For the Thorns, not the product you wanna put in front of a ton of eyeballs.
Yeah, why she plays instead of Linnehan, or even Turner, is still baffling. Do we want any points out of this? Also Obaze still stuck behind Kelli...ugh.
Because literally anything could happen in a knockout format and finishing outside of the top 8 would be a disaster lol. There's 14 teams in the league now, most teams aren't going to be contending for the shield.
I don't consider myself one of the doomposters kielbj addresses, but I have found one thing about the team supremely frustrating this season; the fact that Sinclair has constantly dragged down the quality of the team's play and no one seems to notice (present company excepted). This is made even more grating by the announcers, who continue to talk about her as an asset on the field. ("If you're missing your leading scorer, who better to bring on than the top goal scorer of all time?" That's more or less a quote from today's game.)
I wonder if some of the anger and unhappiness is about Sinclair, but displaced onto the other actions of the people who should be doing something about the damage her presence on the field is causing.
It's truly awful stuff from a media perspective. Local media need to do a better job of calling it out (like seriously, we should be seeing pieces hammering her performances every game on STF and from the Oregonian dude), and national media should be less terrified to use their eyes. The PBP commentators barely know soccer, but people like Angeli and Sanderson see it and are scared to call it out because of how popular she is.
We're going on at least year three of this! It's impossible to watch and is a legitimately big reason why this team hasn't looked very good! I'm personally at the point where it's made me lose respect for her.
Three questions for the doomposters (and anyone else who wants to chime in), cause I'm legitimately curious how y'all are thinking about this:
1. Is a rebuild (as a concept) acceptable, or do you fundamentally believe that the Thorns need to be challenging regardless of circumstance?
2. Do you think a team can rebuild a title contender in one season after two years of being financially cut off by the owner?
3. I'm seeing a lot of "there's no vision" comments. What specifically about the transfers this seasons (both in and out) this season makes you think this?
Aside from the Gale hire --which I agree was poor process-- I'm struggling to understand why people are SO MAD all the time about the state of the org. Earnestly wondering! I'd like some actual answers too, not just "KK is incompetent and the org is unserious."
1. Are we in a rebuild. We are one year out from second place and an unfortunately loss to Gotham in semis. No major losses in personnel except Rocky whom we traded. If we are in a rebuild no I have no problem with that and
2. yes a rebuild.can happen quickly. see Orlando and KC
2. Assuming we are in a rebuild the addition of fleming has been a major setback to get us along the path. If Gotham offered to give us Yazmeen back in xchange for Fleming I would take that in a heartbeat. I would even give them extra cash in return just to get her off the books. For the money we spent on Fleming we could have added quality players but our GM has this fascinación with Canada it appears. This also resulted in the loss of Rocky who.fit our needs well and had performed well last year. Muller has been a quality addition(though she cost us second goal yeaterday). Obaze looks like solid long term CB (Wtf she didnt play yeaterday?) lWe will see how Turner and spaanstra turn out.
End of the day the lack of vision seems from poor personnel.decisons (mostly Fleming and managerial.choices (gale). This suggestions to me an organization that settles for mediocrity. When FA starts next year what do we have to draw in top name talent? Are top.quality people going to want to play for an organization that aims for being competitive but bot championship material? For playing for the supergenius with an unreal sense of fashion? This is the lack of vision. What have they done to make Thorns a destination to come play for.
I don't think Im a doomposter, so I'll just chime in:
(1) A rebuild is acceptable to me, though I don't think that's what has been sold to us. Rather, it's been increasingly clear that that's what needed, if not also what's happening.
(2) At this point, no I don't think a one-season rebuild is feasible. I do think we're in the midst of an unanticipated/unexpected rebuild - or should I say, it's more extensive and going to take longer than the changes that were made coming into the year. Some of the reason for that is that the league is dynamic and some clubs are moving ahead of us. Some of the reason for that is that the moves we did make are not yet enough and might not all have been the "right" moves.
(3) This goes to vision. I don't think those in charge believed the rebuilding was going to need to be this extensive or take as long as I now think it will take.
Even setting aside the question about Norris's and Gale's tactical acuity, I think we're seeing that some of the pieces we thought we could count on going forward maybe don't really fit all that well.
I think we're also seeing matches when we simply get outworked across the pitch or on specific lines, and that should never be okay.
Finally, some things organizational cannot be discussed publically, but they do raise some questions about how we're doing things from an organizational standpoint and whether there is a coherent vision. I'll just leave it at that.
1. Rebuild would be completely acceptable- in fact if the Thorns had tanked this year and just rode it out as the Sinclair Farewell Tour, while getting ready to make wholesale changes in the offseason, I'd have felt better about the state of the team.
2. Yes. Gotham was at the bottom of the table in 2022 and won the league in 2023. Kansas City was terrible in 2023 and are a title contender in 2024. Orlando was terrible forever and started their turnaround midway through last season with a new coach and GM- this season has a chance to finish with the NWSL's all-time best record.
3. The moves have been positive (kudos to the scouting director for finding Muller and Payne), but they're small moves, and the latest arrivals seem to be the result of grabbing what comes available rather than searching for what the team really needs. When actual impact players like Cascarino (most recently) come available, they end up in San Diego, or Orlando, or Kansas City or Gotham.
For a team that's been aching for a winger to support Smith for years, to see other teams seek out and close the deals to sign the likes of Cascarino, Ludmila, Banda, Chawinga, Kundananji, Jakobsson, Sanchez, and on and on...
Sure, it's possible it's not LeBlanc's fault- maybe those types of players don't want to play in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe Portland isn't a prize WoSo destination anymore? Or maybe the Bhathals won't approve the spending to pay for those impact players?
But, just as you point out we don't have actual evidence that LeBlanc doesn't have the ability to seek out or close big deals (outside of Canadians), we could argue there's no evidence that LeBlanc DOES have that ability.
You like to give LeBlanc the benefit of the doubt- that's commendable. For me, though, LeBlanc lost the benefit of doubt beginning with the Wilkinson debacle, so I tend to start with the assumption (yes, I know it's only my opinion!) that the FO failures are her fault.
I think some of those are fair points (especially regarding the Thorns' ability to pull a big name, at least until we see it), though I'd note a few things:
1. The teams you cite are all perfect examples of multi-year rebuilds:
- Gotham won the *championship* in 2023, but actually finished sixth in the shield standings last season (behind where Portland is now). They were a tiebreak away from not even making the playoffs last year! They brought in their new management the year prior, and started building from there, the results just didn't show until now.
- Kansas City started their rebuild three years ago (with Debinha, Williams, and Dibernardo). The Chawinga/Hutton adds have has put them over the top, but the groundwork has been laid over the course of multiple seasons.
- Orlando the same: They brought in their new management and coaching staff before last season, and have been steadily improving since, despite a very rough 2023. Banda just put them over the top.
2. I pointed this out below, but there's no benefit to tanking in the NWSL. Why would you intentionally lose games when there's no draft incentive to doing so? This isn't the NBA or NFL.
So yeah, this might all go in in flames.....but my sense is that a lot of people have this assumption that things are destined to fail based on very little and are frankly not used to this level of competition on and off the field from other franchises.
1 I personally think the concept of a rebuild is a failed strategy in all sports I am familiar with. Most obvious being 'trust the process' at the Philadelphia 76ers in mens basketball. Especially in a world without a draft you are going to find it very difficult rebuilding to success. You have to be able to attract top talent. Not an exclusive list of what will attract top talent but a rather comprehensive top talent to play with, great facilities to train in, a chance to beat the best, great atmosphere to play in, top dollar pay, a city to live in that matches your vibes, a strong support system of family/friends outside the team in the area. One can often lead to another. It is much easier to reload new support pieces than it is to rebuild. Have we reloaded with 30, 66 and 77 this August? We won't know until we see a few games with 9 and 17 actually starting. We might not know at all until next year as we have very few games left to really test where we are this year. With this team it could very well end up being the Thorns in a Club World Cup in 2026.
The one exception is if you have found a coach with a specific vision and you have a front office ready and able to achieve their vision via talent acquisition to provide players to fit the coach's system, and be willing to offload pieces that don't fit. I don't think many people trust that Gale has a vision or that LeBlanc can get in the top talent, or make the decisions to say no to players who no longer fit like Sinc. Via trades and free agency you get the players the coach needs and you can have the Arteta rise back up with the Men's Arsenal team. You can get there but it might take a couple years completely out of the playoffs as you clear out players like Abaumeyang who just aren't the right fit for what is trying to be built, and you likely will have to over pay for a few failed experiments as you try to attract top talent to build around. We have neither a signature style of play from Gale nor an understanding on what the end goal is with all the new youth signings other than they are younger. More and clearer communications with the press would be nice, if we are trying to rebuild what is the blueprint we are using to build?
2 Short answer yes. Long answer, yes especially this team that is champions 2022 and regular season runners up 2023. This team can be back up near the top for 2025 and not 14 points adrift 2/3 of the way through the season.
3 Partly the 5/6 goalkeepers. Partly the getting the Fleming and being so hyped about her, and trying to stick her in a team where roaming all over the place isn't leading to success. There seems to be talent acquisition for talent sake, not how an 11-26 player squad is actually structured to succeed. Also, as we might be coming to an end to the Dias experiment, What was Dias supposed to bring to this team?
In my experience the supporters groups rarely complain about the quality of play. We support the players regardless. We support the FO only when they do good things and we're merciless when they do bad things. Rightly so. But the play on the field will only draw boos if the effort isn't there. I don't recall two games in a row of the players loafing, so there's never been momentum in the stands to complain too much about results.
If I'm Soph, Sam, or any player with any value, I'd be on the phone with my agent asking for a trade. There is zero vision and no chance of hardware at this club.
I know this wasn't a good game, but I think that's a pretty reactionary take considering the numerous reasons why this wasn't ever gonna be a good game from us. We're just in the messy middle right now. The most distressing part, to me, is that we kept Gale. Offseason should prove to be decisive.
> The most distressing part, to me, is that we kept Gale.
Well, there you go... There is zero chance that we win hardware with Gale at the helm. They've had 25 days to come up with a plan for this match and this is what they roll out?
This team is floundering and sinking fast . Couldnt agree more. Do we really think will be able to continue to grow and get better here. Resoundingly, no. We start a 40 year old despite having lots of younger players. We have a stud 19 year old CB that didn't even get in the game but instead play Flubly. The team looked woefully disorganized and had no idea how to break a press. Moultrie had numerous open 1, 2 touch passes open but took 4 or 5 extra touches until she lost ball in a 1v2. This is not a team that is going to challenge for anything other than we finished ahead of Louisville trophies. Seems apparently the new owner arent interested in making the thorns world class all lipservice. If they were actually interested in progress they wouldnt have hired Gale whose coaching acumen is only marginally better than his atrocious fashion sense. So again if I am Sophia WTF would I stick around to play for mediocrity?
> Seems apparently the new owner arent interested in making the thorns world class all lipservice.
I'm willing to give the Bhathals a little bit of a break in terms of managing the team so far because they are noobs. At the same time, I have zero doubt that they didn't buy the Thorns to build a women's soccer dynasty but to get in early and good with the powers that be for the upcoming Rose Quarter redevelopment deal. I imagine they'll spend on the Thorns because it is still revenue generating and kind of a fun side project, but I doubt they are losing much sleep if the team sits at 6th place for the next decade.
She didn't sign a long contract. She signed a one-year contract with a player option, meaning she gets to choose whether she stays. We only have her under contract for sure through 2025.
I believe that all existing contract options are now mutual, as of last year. Which would mean that players with options can make themselves free agents with a quick email.
I listened to an interview yesterday with the PA lawyer lady and she said Sept. 1st about 100 players become free agents that can start negotiations for a Jan 1st contract.
Really can't overstate how damaging Izzy on the wing is. No pressure on the ball on the cross, doesn't have the defensive instincts of a winger, doesn't know how to make the wide runs (Fleming's been noticeably frustrated with her twice already), not technical enough to combine with the midfield.
It's not even her fault, it's just really bad decision making from the manager.
Like WTF is up with Linnehan?! Play 1 of the other 2 wingers you have on the bench!
Also, status of the roster for today.
Linnehan on the wing and Obaze instead of Hubly would be a perfectly acceptable side.
Lucky to be only down 1-0. Becky Sauerbrunn and Spaanstra have been the only two players I’d view as plus’s. Wonder when they are going to bring in Turner for Sinclair. Maybe the yellow card helps
Something is up with Obaze, and it's not injury. It just makes no sense that she doesn't play regularly.
For real... I think we might have gotten fleeced with a broken player. Clearly, she's got talent, so it's gotta be fitness/injury and if she can't play/recover at 21, she's not gonna be an asset long term. It's not even like she tore an ACL and might make a comeback after she recovers.
What does that even mean
It means what I said. She's fully available, she's clearly a better option out there than Hubly - we've all seen it. And she's not playing.
I mean we all know Sinc and Izzy aren't the best options either and they're starting.
The "something up" is just a coach who is deciding to play a vet over a 21 year old who hasn't been able to stay healthy. I don't agree with it, but so it goes.
I'm sure Coach Ken will get things sorted out. We searched the entire world to find him...
Bobby Caldwell: "Some people go around the world for love. They may never find what they dream of."
Karina: "I searched the whole world over, and I found the interim."
Gentle reminder that Thorns conducted a mid-season “global search” for a coach that yielded an assistant to an assistant who no other NWSL team would even consider for a head coaching position, when they could have had the same guy after waiting for the season to play out to see if he could do anything different than I could have done, namely, rely on the singular strategy of Soph Hero Ball plus prayer.
Oh I think this messageboard needs no reminder lol
This team is still clearly behind Orlando, KC, and probably Gotham, but it's astounding how much worse the Izzy/Dias/Sinc group makes the rest of the squad look. Every signing they've made has been about youth, pace, and athleticism and it just doesn't matter when that's your front line.
It's like we've been competing with one hand tied behind our backs every time she's on the field for the last 4 years.
yeah this is broadly similar to the halves they wasted away at Orlando and elsewhere where they started Sinc upfront and Liv wide.
Can't say I'm loving the KENergy today.
KENergy is as strong as always. Unfortunately, COACHergy is also as strong as always.
Player who has been at the club for approx 6 minutes is best #9 on the day lol.
Ok can we reverse UNO that Yaz Ryan for Reyes choice....
Seemingly all so Beckie could start at RW also.
Which is wild because she was objectively pretty darn useless at Man City... 6 g in 49 appearances? GTFO...
Edit: Typo 29 -> 49
Yeah it was an underwhelming signing that we didn't need bc Ryan was starting to shine. It was also a reportedly very expensive one, and her salary was reported to be one of the highest in the league. It was a bit confusing considering Ryan looked good, and played well with Soph.
Weren’t their issues with her boyfriend and something to do with training. I was under the impression that they thought she wouldn’t resign here
I had heard she was unhappy with her playing time when she made that ask, which was reasonable considering they brought in Beckie and she was playing a bunch until the latter 1/3 of the season. Had she gotten Beckie's minutes, I don't think that ask comes...what's the tea with her bf and training, I don't understand?
I thought I recall people having an issue with Ryan’s boyfriend being in the training facility despite rules that stated otherwise, but I could be remembering it wrong
Issues with Beckie's BF, or Ryan's?
Ryan's
This is already so much better lol
"There's a SECOND gear?"
Gee, I wonder why
So much lol.
Brand new young forward who has been here 2 hours already our best forward on the line lol
Not going to know what to do with myself next season when Sinc is gone and we have an actual forward line lol
Like, what ever will I complain about?
Let's be real there's still a lot, but at least like 80% of my persistent frustration will be alleviated.
Don't worry... Fleming, Hubly, etc. will give you plenty to be frustrated about. We'll probably also sign Alex Morgan or something.
Izzy, Sinc, and Spaanstra sounds like a throwaway game lol.
Sucks bc even 3 points here still puts us 1 point behind Gotham, but a loss puts us 7 points behind them for 4th place. Chicago and NC aren't far behind either.
I'm glad Dias is gone so she can't start out wide anymore but FFS just start Linnehan man. Izzy and Sinc is such a poor combo.
Yeah, ugh another sad slog to watch. Growing pains and rebuilds are hard lol. What a great game to put on big CBS immediately after winning gold! For the Thorns, not the product you wanna put in front of a ton of eyeballs.
Just noticed Obaze isn't playing either....sigh.
You just know CBS is _pissed_ about Soph and Sam.
Sam is there *and* was in practice yesterday... WTF... https://x.com/ThornsFC/status/1827095855490388471
Both have "excused" absences. I get it...so many USWNT matches went to extra time. But still...
Soph and Sam are both there, they're just giving them an extra week. Which is totally reasonable.
Well...I'll give 'em "_somewhat_ reasonable." They've had a pretty decent break: a full two weeks.
So is Soph
https://x.com/ThornsFC/status/1827405077822558685/photo/1
Sinc there to direct traffic? Serve orange slices?
Do not understand.
Yeah, why she plays instead of Linnehan, or even Turner, is still baffling. Do we want any points out of this? Also Obaze still stuck behind Kelli...ugh.
I bet Hina's missing Kobe right about now...
Shhhhh
This is definitely a rebuilding year. Just want to make sure we make the playoffs. But... to what end?
Because literally anything could happen in a knockout format and finishing outside of the top 8 would be a disaster lol. There's 14 teams in the league now, most teams aren't going to be contending for the shield.
On the bright side, we have the best non-interim cheerleader with a sizable clothing budget in the NWSL.
Portland Thorns: Come for the soccer, stay for the coach's sartorial splendor.
Spaanstra already showing good things.
But I can't type Spaanstra every time! She has 5 A's in her full name, so I'm just going to start calling her "AAAAA"
Whoda thunk that having a real winger playing wing would be nice!
Took me a bit to get the joke:
https://xkcd.com/2957/
I don't consider myself one of the doomposters kielbj addresses, but I have found one thing about the team supremely frustrating this season; the fact that Sinclair has constantly dragged down the quality of the team's play and no one seems to notice (present company excepted). This is made even more grating by the announcers, who continue to talk about her as an asset on the field. ("If you're missing your leading scorer, who better to bring on than the top goal scorer of all time?" That's more or less a quote from today's game.)
I wonder if some of the anger and unhappiness is about Sinclair, but displaced onto the other actions of the people who should be doing something about the damage her presence on the field is causing.
It's truly awful stuff from a media perspective. Local media need to do a better job of calling it out (like seriously, we should be seeing pieces hammering her performances every game on STF and from the Oregonian dude), and national media should be less terrified to use their eyes. The PBP commentators barely know soccer, but people like Angeli and Sanderson see it and are scared to call it out because of how popular she is.
We're going on at least year three of this! It's impossible to watch and is a legitimately big reason why this team hasn't looked very good! I'm personally at the point where it's made me lose respect for her.
Three questions for the doomposters (and anyone else who wants to chime in), cause I'm legitimately curious how y'all are thinking about this:
1. Is a rebuild (as a concept) acceptable, or do you fundamentally believe that the Thorns need to be challenging regardless of circumstance?
2. Do you think a team can rebuild a title contender in one season after two years of being financially cut off by the owner?
3. I'm seeing a lot of "there's no vision" comments. What specifically about the transfers this seasons (both in and out) this season makes you think this?
Aside from the Gale hire --which I agree was poor process-- I'm struggling to understand why people are SO MAD all the time about the state of the org. Earnestly wondering! I'd like some actual answers too, not just "KK is incompetent and the org is unserious."
1. Are we in a rebuild. We are one year out from second place and an unfortunately loss to Gotham in semis. No major losses in personnel except Rocky whom we traded. If we are in a rebuild no I have no problem with that and
2. yes a rebuild.can happen quickly. see Orlando and KC
2. Assuming we are in a rebuild the addition of fleming has been a major setback to get us along the path. If Gotham offered to give us Yazmeen back in xchange for Fleming I would take that in a heartbeat. I would even give them extra cash in return just to get her off the books. For the money we spent on Fleming we could have added quality players but our GM has this fascinación with Canada it appears. This also resulted in the loss of Rocky who.fit our needs well and had performed well last year. Muller has been a quality addition(though she cost us second goal yeaterday). Obaze looks like solid long term CB (Wtf she didnt play yeaterday?) lWe will see how Turner and spaanstra turn out.
End of the day the lack of vision seems from poor personnel.decisons (mostly Fleming and managerial.choices (gale). This suggestions to me an organization that settles for mediocrity. When FA starts next year what do we have to draw in top name talent? Are top.quality people going to want to play for an organization that aims for being competitive but bot championship material? For playing for the supergenius with an unreal sense of fashion? This is the lack of vision. What have they done to make Thorns a destination to come play for.
I don't think Im a doomposter, so I'll just chime in:
(1) A rebuild is acceptable to me, though I don't think that's what has been sold to us. Rather, it's been increasingly clear that that's what needed, if not also what's happening.
(2) At this point, no I don't think a one-season rebuild is feasible. I do think we're in the midst of an unanticipated/unexpected rebuild - or should I say, it's more extensive and going to take longer than the changes that were made coming into the year. Some of the reason for that is that the league is dynamic and some clubs are moving ahead of us. Some of the reason for that is that the moves we did make are not yet enough and might not all have been the "right" moves.
(3) This goes to vision. I don't think those in charge believed the rebuilding was going to need to be this extensive or take as long as I now think it will take.
Even setting aside the question about Norris's and Gale's tactical acuity, I think we're seeing that some of the pieces we thought we could count on going forward maybe don't really fit all that well.
I think we're also seeing matches when we simply get outworked across the pitch or on specific lines, and that should never be okay.
Finally, some things organizational cannot be discussed publically, but they do raise some questions about how we're doing things from an organizational standpoint and whether there is a coherent vision. I'll just leave it at that.
I'll take a swing;
1. Rebuild would be completely acceptable- in fact if the Thorns had tanked this year and just rode it out as the Sinclair Farewell Tour, while getting ready to make wholesale changes in the offseason, I'd have felt better about the state of the team.
2. Yes. Gotham was at the bottom of the table in 2022 and won the league in 2023. Kansas City was terrible in 2023 and are a title contender in 2024. Orlando was terrible forever and started their turnaround midway through last season with a new coach and GM- this season has a chance to finish with the NWSL's all-time best record.
3. The moves have been positive (kudos to the scouting director for finding Muller and Payne), but they're small moves, and the latest arrivals seem to be the result of grabbing what comes available rather than searching for what the team really needs. When actual impact players like Cascarino (most recently) come available, they end up in San Diego, or Orlando, or Kansas City or Gotham.
For a team that's been aching for a winger to support Smith for years, to see other teams seek out and close the deals to sign the likes of Cascarino, Ludmila, Banda, Chawinga, Kundananji, Jakobsson, Sanchez, and on and on...
Sure, it's possible it's not LeBlanc's fault- maybe those types of players don't want to play in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe Portland isn't a prize WoSo destination anymore? Or maybe the Bhathals won't approve the spending to pay for those impact players?
But, just as you point out we don't have actual evidence that LeBlanc doesn't have the ability to seek out or close big deals (outside of Canadians), we could argue there's no evidence that LeBlanc DOES have that ability.
You like to give LeBlanc the benefit of the doubt- that's commendable. For me, though, LeBlanc lost the benefit of doubt beginning with the Wilkinson debacle, so I tend to start with the assumption (yes, I know it's only my opinion!) that the FO failures are her fault.
I think some of those are fair points (especially regarding the Thorns' ability to pull a big name, at least until we see it), though I'd note a few things:
1. The teams you cite are all perfect examples of multi-year rebuilds:
- Gotham won the *championship* in 2023, but actually finished sixth in the shield standings last season (behind where Portland is now). They were a tiebreak away from not even making the playoffs last year! They brought in their new management the year prior, and started building from there, the results just didn't show until now.
- Kansas City started their rebuild three years ago (with Debinha, Williams, and Dibernardo). The Chawinga/Hutton adds have has put them over the top, but the groundwork has been laid over the course of multiple seasons.
- Orlando the same: They brought in their new management and coaching staff before last season, and have been steadily improving since, despite a very rough 2023. Banda just put them over the top.
2. I pointed this out below, but there's no benefit to tanking in the NWSL. Why would you intentionally lose games when there's no draft incentive to doing so? This isn't the NBA or NFL.
So yeah, this might all go in in flames.....but my sense is that a lot of people have this assumption that things are destined to fail based on very little and are frankly not used to this level of competition on and off the field from other franchises.
Same
1 I personally think the concept of a rebuild is a failed strategy in all sports I am familiar with. Most obvious being 'trust the process' at the Philadelphia 76ers in mens basketball. Especially in a world without a draft you are going to find it very difficult rebuilding to success. You have to be able to attract top talent. Not an exclusive list of what will attract top talent but a rather comprehensive top talent to play with, great facilities to train in, a chance to beat the best, great atmosphere to play in, top dollar pay, a city to live in that matches your vibes, a strong support system of family/friends outside the team in the area. One can often lead to another. It is much easier to reload new support pieces than it is to rebuild. Have we reloaded with 30, 66 and 77 this August? We won't know until we see a few games with 9 and 17 actually starting. We might not know at all until next year as we have very few games left to really test where we are this year. With this team it could very well end up being the Thorns in a Club World Cup in 2026.
The one exception is if you have found a coach with a specific vision and you have a front office ready and able to achieve their vision via talent acquisition to provide players to fit the coach's system, and be willing to offload pieces that don't fit. I don't think many people trust that Gale has a vision or that LeBlanc can get in the top talent, or make the decisions to say no to players who no longer fit like Sinc. Via trades and free agency you get the players the coach needs and you can have the Arteta rise back up with the Men's Arsenal team. You can get there but it might take a couple years completely out of the playoffs as you clear out players like Abaumeyang who just aren't the right fit for what is trying to be built, and you likely will have to over pay for a few failed experiments as you try to attract top talent to build around. We have neither a signature style of play from Gale nor an understanding on what the end goal is with all the new youth signings other than they are younger. More and clearer communications with the press would be nice, if we are trying to rebuild what is the blueprint we are using to build?
2 Short answer yes. Long answer, yes especially this team that is champions 2022 and regular season runners up 2023. This team can be back up near the top for 2025 and not 14 points adrift 2/3 of the way through the season.
3 Partly the 5/6 goalkeepers. Partly the getting the Fleming and being so hyped about her, and trying to stick her in a team where roaming all over the place isn't leading to success. There seems to be talent acquisition for talent sake, not how an 11-26 player squad is actually structured to succeed. Also, as we might be coming to an end to the Dias experiment, What was Dias supposed to bring to this team?
You would think the Riveters would make enough noise about this.
In my experience the supporters groups rarely complain about the quality of play. We support the players regardless. We support the FO only when they do good things and we're merciless when they do bad things. Rightly so. But the play on the field will only draw boos if the effort isn't there. I don't recall two games in a row of the players loafing, so there's never been momentum in the stands to complain too much about results.
And don't the players have a voice?
Had all summer to figure this out too.
https://twitter.com/theolloydhughes/status/1827446056990470515
If I'm Soph, Sam, or any player with any value, I'd be on the phone with my agent asking for a trade. There is zero vision and no chance of hardware at this club.
Goodness gracious, I'm glad y'all aren't in charge of the Thorns or we'd end up like Louisville.
I know this wasn't a good game, but I think that's a pretty reactionary take considering the numerous reasons why this wasn't ever gonna be a good game from us. We're just in the messy middle right now. The most distressing part, to me, is that we kept Gale. Offseason should prove to be decisive.
> The most distressing part, to me, is that we kept Gale.
Well, there you go... There is zero chance that we win hardware with Gale at the helm. They've had 25 days to come up with a plan for this match and this is what they roll out?
It's a good thing you're not Soph and Sam then
This team is floundering and sinking fast . Couldnt agree more. Do we really think will be able to continue to grow and get better here. Resoundingly, no. We start a 40 year old despite having lots of younger players. We have a stud 19 year old CB that didn't even get in the game but instead play Flubly. The team looked woefully disorganized and had no idea how to break a press. Moultrie had numerous open 1, 2 touch passes open but took 4 or 5 extra touches until she lost ball in a 1v2. This is not a team that is going to challenge for anything other than we finished ahead of Louisville trophies. Seems apparently the new owner arent interested in making the thorns world class all lipservice. If they were actually interested in progress they wouldnt have hired Gale whose coaching acumen is only marginally better than his atrocious fashion sense. So again if I am Sophia WTF would I stick around to play for mediocrity?
> Seems apparently the new owner arent interested in making the thorns world class all lipservice.
I'm willing to give the Bhathals a little bit of a break in terms of managing the team so far because they are noobs. At the same time, I have zero doubt that they didn't buy the Thorns to build a women's soccer dynasty but to get in early and good with the powers that be for the upcoming Rose Quarter redevelopment deal. I imagine they'll spend on the Thorns because it is still revenue generating and kind of a fun side project, but I doubt they are losing much sleep if the team sits at 6th place for the next decade.
precisely
Cult of personality before proven results is a huge gamble.
Just thinking the same. That was shite
Luckily Sophia just signed a nice, new, long contract.
She didn't sign a long contract. She signed a one-year contract with a player option, meaning she gets to choose whether she stays. We only have her under contract for sure through 2025.
Players are all free agents now, right? Players can actually start negotiating with other teams September 1st...
If their contracts are up, yes. If they have an option or are contracted for next year and beyond, no.
I believe that all existing contract options are now mutual, as of last year. Which would mean that players with options can make themselves free agents with a quick email.
Good clarity, thanks. Yeah the PA rep mentioned it was about 100 players that can start negotiating Sept 1st...
I'm not sure what the actual effective date of the agreement is so don't know. Still, it doesn't cancel any contracts.
I listened to an interview yesterday with the PA lawyer lady and she said Sept. 1st about 100 players become free agents that can start negotiations for a Jan 1st contract.