The Thorns return to action after a week off, and they are back in the friendly confines of Providence Park on Pride night. Can they start a new win streak tonight against the Courage? Come chat through it!
Just watched (like, a few minutes ago) the live announcement of the Nadeshiko team for Paris...and Hina wasn't named, either to the 18 or as a reserve. I'm not entirely surprised, as she seems to have fallen out of favor with Ikeda over the last few months. This has to be tough on her mentality, though. With Jun Endo still recovering from surgery, I once would have thought Hina to be an automatic call-up and probable starter...but she's really fallen off Ikeda's radar. In general over here, the focus seems to be on the domestic league and on players playing in England and Italy; the NWSL doesn't seem to get a lot of respect for some reason.
Another odd decision was to leave Rion Ishikawa as a reserve, favoring older (and slower) center-backs. Assuming Minami is one CB starter (and she's not slow), it will be a pace-challenged veteran playing alongside her.
In general, this was a USWNT-style "favor the old guard" roster call. The only young stars called in are the absolute no-brainers like Aoba Fujino.
Indeed they do: the Nadeshiko pool is very, very deep. The excellent youth and academy system (which, gratifyingly, is as built-out for girls as for boys) is providing a pipeline of gifted players to the WE League and Nadeshiko League (1st and 2nd divisions over here) and thus to the national team. Lots of players playing in Europe and the NWSL (although the latter are under-appreciated by Ikeda and staff, imo). For the midfield spots Hina is competing for, she's going up against players like Yui Hasegawa and Kiko Seike (direct positional competition there, and Kiko-senshu plays for the league champs. Still, there were some midfielders selected that in my view just don't match up to Hina (Honoka Hayashi, Momoko Tanikawa)...but they play for European sides, and that counts for a rather absurd amount in Japan.
With the caveat that I'm a bit of a Beleza fanboi, I'm _really_ high on Aoba-senshu. Potentially an "in the conversation" player for best attacker anywhere is she can develop to her full potential. She's quick, she's smart, has the sort of skill on the ball you just kind of _expect_ from a Japanese player, great engine, doesn't ignore the defensive side of the game...and most importantly, she has that scorer's mentality. The thought of her on the front line alongside Bunny Shaw has to be nightmare fuel for FAWSL defenders.
That said, she had a bit of a "meh" year for Beleza, a team that underperformed this season, finishing third in the WE League (let down by bad finishing and giving up late goals for draws). Her finishing in front of goal wasn't up to the standard she'd previously set in her young career. Part of that was getting double-teamed a lot (as Beleza had lost her strike partner Riko Ueki over the previous off season). You could see it was getting to her...but she seemed to snap out of it as the season progressed and started scoring/assisting again.
A fun thing about Aoba-chan: despite her "don't mess with me" facial expressions and no-nonsense character, she has this incongruously high-pitched, dare I say _cute_ little voice. Makes me smile every interview!
I'm also a City fan so this is very much a mixed emotion situation for me. Beleza's relative decline started when they started getting so horribly picked over by wealthier European sides, despite their incredible academy - possibly the best in the world for girls and young women - providing such a pipeline. I'd kind of prefer she stay with Beleza (since that's a team I can travel to see, 'speshly when they play away at Mynavi Sendai...not a long flight from my home in Sapporo), but she could really kill it at City, assuming she's not played out of position (o hai, Yui) or otherwise used incorrectly.
Makes me so sad for her. I feel like every time I've watched her play for Japan, she's looked adrift in a position she seems least suited for. If they would just put her centrally, she would create magic with the other Japanese midfielders around her. She's also learned to play in a really big/strong/fast league like the NWSL and I'd say that knowledge and skillset would be really valuable for a small statured team on the international stage. I hope Mike Norris' antics didn't play into that at all...hard to get call ups when your club coach is an idiot and isn't playing you.
Given that international play is a chance for Yui Hasegawa to move forward into a more playmaking mid role than the too-far-back position she's a bit wasted in at City, you'd think Hina's recent superb play in a double pivot would have garnered her a call-up.
I really hope this isn't a case of Ikeda losing his touch (he's been pretty amazing for the Nadeshiko)...but we'll see soon enough. The team that he brought to WWC23 would be the favorites for gold, IMO...but the team of 2024 so far this year isn't.
Just re-watched the incident with Smith's second yellow card. It's pretty clear to me it wasn't intentional - she's not looking at the ball and it slips out of her hands, then she pretty immediately gets it and gives it to Müller. But it still does use up some time, so it could well be judged as time-wasting. Whether it's reversible will probably come down to whether they take intent into account.
In MLS you can appeal a second yellow, according to their rules page...but I'm unsure what the NWSL rules are. But also in MLS, it also specifically says they WON'T review off-field incidents. So, if rules were the same, her second yellow may not be reviewable, but the first one might be.
The situations that are appealable:
-Red Card
-The second yellow card when a player receives two (2) yellow cards in a match, resulting in the player being sent off from the match
-The first yellow card (when a player receives two (2) yellow cards in a match resulting in a suspension) in circumstances when the first yellow card was issued for Unsporting Behavior and, in the opinion of the IRP, the opponent attempted to deceive the referee.
-A yellow card that triggers a suspension due to yellow card accumulation when the yellow card is a consequence of clear and obvious simulation or embellishment by an opponent.
*NOTE: Clubs may not appeal any previously earned yellow card that counts toward the player’s yellow card accumulation total.
*NOTE: Incidents occurring off-field will not be considered by the IRP
I agree that Chesky didn't need to call it. The game was not well managed by her and somewhat got out of hand. No referee calls every foul or every infraction. But, no pun intended, Soph doesn't have clean hands here.
The replay remains unclear of the actions. On one hand I get why the ref gave her a yellow, because in the moment it appears to be time wasting. On the other hand, the video shows Smith immediately trying to get the ball out from under the bench which indicates that she was rectifying a mistake. Its a harsh yellow, and one the ref really didn't need to call.
One thing I did notice throughout the NC Game was that Sophia was getting shoved in the back everytime the ball was coming to her. Not enough to put her on the ground, but clearly in an effort to disrupt her ability to turn with the ball. I get physical play, but at some point the Ref needs to step up and let defenders know that it needs to stop. I don't expect the ref to call every bit of contact, but they shouldn't be surprised that players get upset when nothing gets called. It gets to the point where I wish there was a Thorns player who knew how to give those plays back to the other team. Right now the team is lacking that player on the field.
Obviously she's capable. That doesn't answer the question. She's also obviously distracted and not paying attention to the ball. To me the video doesn't point clearly in either direction.
My question: if she was intentionally wasting time, why didn't she waste more of it? She could have taken much longer to fish the ball out from under the bench.
Plus, whatever happened to grabbing another of the many spare balls kept at the ready around the pitch and not bothering with retrieving the current game ball? Not rocket surgery, especially when it's the trailing team's throw-in.
To me it's telling that nobody else touches the ball or makes any movement toward it. Why? Because there's no incentive for Portland to retrieve the ball and get it back into play.
But, if I just focus on body language and movements (and set aside speculating on intent), I apply common sense as to what's involved in handling a ball, and I look at the requisite dexterity she shows when scooping and flipping the ball to Muller -- which is what she should have done from the start but did not -- I am left with no doubt.
She'd better hope we don't slip to 5th this week in her absence.
This reveals the hive mind's opinion of Soph's red card.
"Images of Sophia Smith getting carded from the bench for time wasting will live long in meme-world. NWSL's golden boot leader attempted to hide the ball beneath the Thorns bench in stoppage time of a 1-0 win over North Carolina and was disciplined for time-wasting."
My takeaway is no red card takeaway on appeal. The People have spoken. On the upside that's a dozen or so fouls she won't be suffering come this weekend.
Yeah, I thought Seattle defended well for like 30 mins but man, Alana Cook has fallen off a cliff, in particular. She was so bad! Huitema did have 2 really nice goals. They were very *Seattle* goals except instead of Huerta —> Rapinoe —> Huitema/Balcer it’s now Huerta/RW —> Huitema/Balcer. Still pretty predictable but we don’t have a ton of height to compete well for those so you just gotta stop the service. Still just not sure if we’ve figured out where the goals come from if Soph is not on the field scoring or assisting. The Courage game wasn’t encouraging because the first 70mins just seemed to be “kick it to Soph and pray.”
The post-shot xG - less the PK - was well below 0.5, meaning that without the penalty this was a scoreless draw against an opponent whose PSxG was zero.
Yep. We don’t have much attacking juice when Sophia (and Weaver) are not on the field. Even with Seattle being dire, I have no idea where our goals come from. Having Sinc and Liv on the field at the same time is painful bc they’re both so slow…even worse when he puts Liv on the wing.
Latsko to Huitema with the gorgeous finish. 1-0 Reign. AD hurt her ankle going down for the attempted kick save.
...And Huitema with the brace on the header tap-in, off service from Fishlock, and a collision with Franch. 2-1, 42nd.
So, Huitema not shying away from putting pressure on the keeper, and the Reign's mids are getting good service into the box for their tall targets. Take note, Portland!
KC equalizes again. 2-2 in 1st half stoppage time.
On the brighter side, that was the first time I really looked at Sam's walking boot. The fact that she's standing there and putting weight on it made me far less concerned than I had been.
That’s interesting bc the coach was asked this directly in the post match presser and he def said it happened in-game. Hope it wasn’t aggravated by a poor decision on the coaches part, if he wasn’t being forthcoming…
I know Sophia's not a basketball player, but she is fully adept at using her feet as if they are hands, with that same kind of dexterity. To be able to do that requires a certain amount of hand coordination too.
So, try to look at it from the standpoint of being a very athletically coordinated person, not necessarily a basketball player, but what you would do to with a basketball to gather it and bring it your body or your other hand, or pass (roll) it to somebody.
I submit that what she does is very coordinated, but that she does none of those things you would do to gather it, bring it to your body or your other hand, or pass (roll) it to somebody.
She comes down directly on top of the ball with fingers spread wide, palming or cupping it perfectly. It's fully under he control, and she uses her right hand, which is her dominant hand.
She looks up at Muller, who is walking toward the ball with her arms out to her side. We can't see if Muller is gesturing for it or saying anything to Soph, but Soph looks up at Muller and makes eye contact with her.
Then, Soph changes her hand position to cradle the ball, going from being on top of it to on the front side of it and hooking it backward.
At that point, if your intention is to give the ball to somebody else, you would change your hand position so you're behind the ball and/or underneath it, to push the ball or lift it toward that person, OR you'd lift off your left hand and raise up on just your knees to bring the ball to both hands, OR you'd pull the ball toward your body, OR you'd pull the ball toward your left hand.
Instead, Soph sweeps backward with the ball on the ground, not trying to get under it, gather it, or scoop it up.
She keeps the ball out away from her body and to her right side, not bringing it toward her left hand or into her body.
Most telling of all, she follows through completely with that right hand, changing her hand position to where her fingers are back atop the ball and rolling the ball backward with her fingers as she puts it behind her and under the bench.
Finally, once it's under there and Muller gestures with her hands out to her sides, palms upward, Soph says something to her but doesn't go after the ball as if she's accidentally fumbled it and is trying to recover it. There's a certain casualness to her actions.
So, nope, I say that's intentional and I think the red will stand.
Hmm, I disagree cause I clearly see the ball slip out of her right hand (and I don’t think she’s quite enough of an idiot to do that on a yellow) but I do think the red will stand.
You can’t guess intent here, because it’s really unknown.
Chesky penalized her for intent or “showing me up like she did when she kicked the ball earlier”. The only reason we know this refs name is because she is bad at her job.
What happens when players stop throwing it to the inbound player altogether or better yet, lift there legs and let someone from the field go under the seats to get the ball. That would like create more time wasting.
I'm not so much guessing intent as I am looking at (1) the physical movement that is involved in moving a ball in that manner -- from lots of direct and observational experience -- and (2) what she actually did, and when, with her arm, hand, wrist, and fingers.
As I said, although Soph's not a basketball player, she uses her feet in the same way that basketball players use their hands, which requires a certain level of conceptualization, balance, kinesthetic ability, and touch.
Learning to move one's feet similarly to hand dexterity is much harder to do than learning to move one's hands similarly to foot dexterity, if that makes sense.
Soph's exceptional foot dexterity and knowledge of ball physics suggest that she's a highly coordinated person. Indeed, I'd argue that Soph is one of the most physically coordinated ball-sport athletes on the planet.
Now, anybody can misplay a dead (or almost dead) ball, of course, but what she does with her fingers to corral the ball to start with - spreading her fingers to palm the ball like that - tells me that she knows what's she's doing when it comes to rounding up a ball.
Then, there was no movement to bring the ball into her body, into her other hand, or push it to Muller, or scoop and lift it to Muller. It was a sweep to bring the ball alongside of her body and then behind it.
The body language, constructively, is sufficient demonstration of intent. Not quite "Ball Don't Lie," but it's close.
Then again, nothing will ever beat this failed attempt at athlete misdirection:
Ok, I'm a total nerd here, I know, but slow the video to 1/4 speed and see what she does, and when she does it, with her hand, wrist, and fingers.
Why on earth she would even touch the ball when Portland are up and nearly at the death, and all of her teammates are ignoring it and letting it rattle around, is beyond me.
I mean it is a 40K seat stadium, so it's always going to look emptier than it is. SD have the same issue with Snapdragon. Seattle would have the same issue at Lumen but they don't draw enough anyways lol.
One of the best things about PP tbh: Perfect capacity. Big enough (looking at you KC) to get everyone in who wants to go, small enough that there's still atmosphere.
Possible upside is a hellova lot of people saw Red Stars (lose) for the first time and maybe some will haul themselves to the burbs to see more.
Can't say I wasn't reminded of the weird Tacoma and KC baseball park kludges. (But: pitcher's mound elevator for the win.) Guessing actually getting into Wrigley was a strong pull yesterday.
Was surprised how many empty seats there were right on top of the goal on the 3rd-base line. With how much of the first half Bay spent down there and peppering Naeher, and how close those seats really were -- just a few feet behind the net -- that would have been an incredibly cool vantage.
Lets hope the Coffey issue isn't a big problem. There was definitely something wrong early in the game, as she changed footwear really early in the game. Her passing was really off as well. I don't expect her to play next weekend regardless of the severity, and Gale should know the depth is there to cover a few games if necessary. Fleming and Sugita play in a double pivot with Moultre playing as the 10 should be an adequate starting midfield. Also, If there was any concern that Coffey wasn't going to be able to play all 90 minutes either Moultre or Fleming should have started on the bench.
Losing Smith for the Seattle game is going to hurt as well, but its a loss that the team should be able to handle as well. I expect that Sinclair will get the start, but lets hope that Linnehan and Beckie are the wingers. This gives the team some speed to match up with the experience that Sinclair brings to the field. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing either Diaz or D'Aquilla starting in place of Sinclair.
The fact that you don't think Sophia's pushing the ball under the bench was intentional shows your Red rose colored glasses (Look at the smile on her face, she clearly knows what she is doing, and the movements make no sense for it to be a mistake). That was clearly intentional and deserved a yellow. She will learn.
I personally think it was accidental and not deliberate. If it was, then she is a great actress.
But it was still a lapse in judgement considering, the ref seemed to have a bias against her (regarding the fouls she allowed NCC to have on her).
I mean, she made the conscious decision to crawl out of her seat in order to handle that ball while she was already on a yellow for a legitimate time wasting call. I can't say that I'm surprised that the situation didn't end well.
Hina is a lot tougher and scrappier than one would assume.
Give some stick where it's due too:
Linnehan looked like a rookie.
Muller really struggled with St Georges (who is strong/sturdy and very fit)
Payne is fast, but she's really rough offensively when allowed to come foward.
Hogan does fine as a shot stopper, but her distribution and decision making are not good.
We're gonna be in serious trouble against Seattle. This was a grueling win, and losing Soph to boneheadedness and Sam to a foot injury ain't good.
Sam went down in the first half and asked for a different shoe. I'm assuming that she was having pain in her foot and was hoping the shoe was the problem You know it's not good if Sam subs out at all, but in the 35th minute?
Oh, and f&ck Chesky. Take control of the game, for God's sake. Way too physical, way too chippy, and that's ultimately on the referee.
One thing I didn't mention about last night's match: for the folks who are down on Smith's passing and overdribbling, I remember distinctly a time when she set up Fleming on a wide open breakaway but Fleming doesn't have the necessary acceleration to get onto the ball, and another time when Soph had to hold up and hold up to try to get someone else to break forward into open space ahead, and as a result had multiple Courage defenders converge on her.
The truth is, Soph is just much quicker and faster than any of the other attackers, and when she doesn't have anyone to whom she can play the ball due to their lack of speed, well, she will revert to her "Fuck you, Jobu - I do it myself" mode. There were times last night when she clearly did that, but they happened *after* she'd tried to find teammates who simply aren't fast enough to get forward for her.
Yeah I totally agree. Without Weaver, the Thorns have no pace on the counter, so it's literally just Smith in space and that's not her fault.
My biggest issue with how she played last night was how impatient she got- Sometimes she's gotta just hold the ball up and let her teammates catch up with her instead of trying to do it all on her own or force a pass into space for either Fleming or Moultrie.....neither of whom have the speed to get there.
She's one of the fastest of a slow bunch (Linnehan's probably the fastest non-Soph player), but she doesn't have anything close to Morgan's raw speed/explosion imo.
No, I know they're no good. But it's a rivalry match, away, we won 4-0 here but that score was highly deceiving, and in all likelihood this time we'll be without Smith and Coffey. Hogan can be shaky, we're not fast in the attack without Soph, and we'll be downright slow because we'll have to rely on Sinclair.
When are Harvey and the cooler more at one with each other (if you know what I mean), when Reign are winning or when Reign are losing? I can't really see her being a "sit down on the sidelines" coach any time, but evidently she does.
I like the Payne and Hubly pairing I suspect because Payne's presence allows Kel to play within herself and not try to do too much, and "go rogue." Payne has some maturing ahead but her skillset and speed (duh) are assets back there. Mueller did have her hands full and nevertheless I saw quite a few Mueller things from her last night. Get excited every time she brings the ball up. Want that first goal!
Ya know what? I'm watching the Soph clip at home (on the computer instead of my phone), and the ball very clearly slips out of her hand as she's rolling it back. She really shouldn't have touched it at all given she was on a yellow, but I actually don't think she intentionally scooped it under the bench, as funny and stupid as that would have been.
Would another ref have even considered that yellow much less done it? The league should rescind that, but will probably support this incompetent ref.
If she had a serious look on her face as opposed to her smiling, does it get a second look? Why assume bad intent for the second it was under the bench?
It’s like the ref took it personal and thought she had shown her up with the first foul.
Yeah, she really did lose control of the ball (hey, she's not a 'keeper: doesn't practice with her hands much!), and it may well be that its eventual resting place wasn't her intent at all. Still a foolish thing to do ('speshly on a yellow for time-wasting!), but might the disciplinary committe find the video mitigating? Prolly not, but we can hope.* The Reign match should have been a gimme, but now? Yeesh.
*And let's be realistic (albeit cynical): is the league going to want one of its biggest stars unavailable for the NBC match that week?
Yes on second look seems accidental. Bummed about Sam hope it is nothing too serious. She had the National team made.
My impression of the Courage is they are a team, well coached with a skilled midfield, fast and skilled defenders, but damn, sans Kerolin, have a toothless attack. I thought Müller, Payne and Reyes had good games. Hey clean sheet! Well done Hogan, Becky and Kelli.
This is my ultimate issue. Yes what Soph did is dumb but the priorities are all wrong. Chesky can do the bureaucratic nonsense but can’t do the actual job of ensuring the game is safe for players.
Was it really dumb? Players toss the ball back to players all the time. Getting out of her seat to do it was probably not something she was thinking about at all.
The fact that Chesky actually gave her a yellow card for that (she deserved the other one) is really a sign of a ref probably a little bit bothered by people questioning her.
Agreed. That was a mismanaged game by Chesky. It was clear from the VERY FIRST time Soph got on the ball how it was going to be last night, all night: Kurtz visibly grabbed Soph by the tail of her jersey, so plainly that the crowd reacted to it loudly, but no call.
If that’s the case I sure as hell hope they appeal it. Maybe they’ll be lenient considering she’s a top USWNT player? (I know these sorts of political things exist even if I don’t like it.)
I know you can't appeal a yellow, but is that the same rule for a second yellow that turns into a red? I imagine there are different rules there for the NWSL...
In MLS, for example, you CAN appeal a second yellow that turns into a red. You can also appeal the first yellow if there were 2 given in a match. I don't know the rules for NWSL, though...
Which replay are you looking at that shows that? I haven’t scrolled twitter yet bc I don’t wanna get other game spoilers bc I like to watch them w/out knowing.
I mean truly if it was an accident I’d be 100% looking to appeal. Soph is gonna make that Olympic roster, but still, it’s pretty important for players to be playing right now with a final roster coming by the end of the month. Also, Emma won’t be impressed by that…I’d wanna get it rescinded if only to not look like a dummy to my new coach lol…
Tbf, I’m sure Hayes would be fine with Soph not playing for a week cause the nats can’t really afford an injury to her just like they REALLY are screwed if Sam’s is serious.
Lol touché. Honestly to me does look like it wasn’t intentional. She’s crawling forward and reaches out with one arm while not paying attention/looking at the ball. It kinda scoots by her side. She was a bit lackadaisical about it, but I dunno, I think she should appeal.
With Sam, yeah…I was already wondering what they’d do. Sonnet would be the starting 6 prob. And they’d take Sullivan too prob.
So we’re out Soph and Sam next game prob…not great! Sam was in a boot after the game :((((( I’m hoping it’s a little precautionary but I doubt she plays v Seattle.
My guess is Fleming plays the 6…good news is that I think Fleming was better in her minutes in the 6 today than she’s been since she got here. Apparently we have two expensive 6’s lol.
I will be v upset if we don’t get 3 pts vs Seattle bc of the Soph thing. What a dumb thing to do esp already on a yellow. They will def be out for blood given how their PP game went…
Being in a boot isn't necessarily indicative of a serious issue; they'll do that because it can be helpful when it's a scenario where normal people might at most wear a brace.
Oh yes I know, that’s why I pondered if it was precautionary. I’ve had a mild sprained ankle but it was suggested I wear a boot if I had one (I did) just to expedite healing. I still don’t think she’ll play this weekend regardless of the severity.
I imagine they'll do what they did today after Sam's injury, which was just play Hina and Fleming next to each other in a flat midfield two. Fleming might have some more defensive responsibilities than Hina, but they'll need to tag team Sam's role.
Yeah I thought they did well, so that’s at least encouraging…but Sam in a boot makes me feel dread lol. It was the first time where I actually started noticing Fleming was on the field, though! Maybe this will be good to get some rotation for Sam so she doesn’t have to play 90. Every. Single. Game.
Alright, after seeing the full clip on Twitter, I’ll revise my opinion on the Soph red. Stupid as hell and now she’s out for what should have been a relatively straightforward game in Seattle.
I still think refs should use a a little bit of discretion there —like they do with fouls when players are on yellows— and just add the 30 second on, but that was never going to happen with a ref like Chesky.
Nice to see VAR working as intended. That call was pretty straightforward once you had a chance to see the replay. Yes, the ball had cleared away, but towards a Thorn, and Hina was still involved in the play (literally between the ball and the goal and onside).
Why would it be? There's a well-publicized directive to the refs to curb time-wasting, and Soph pulled that dumbassery in plain sight...on a yellow card.
Chesky was terrible in terms of what did and didn't constitute a foul all match (like always), but that call? Probably inevitable.
Yeah, Sophia deserved that call. It was stupid on her part and we can hope she learns from it. Chesky is inconsistent af, but that's a yellow all day long, and Sophia should know better than to pull that crap while on a yellow.
I'd argue that bench players _don't_ do that with the ref (who's been penalizing time-wasting all match) looking right at them and them on a yellow card. Not players with a lick of sense, anyway. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one: that was boneheaded (and disappointing from such a smart player/person).
I don't hate her at all—I just find her the most frustrating player to watch. She is clearly very talented, and she has so much to offer this team. Smith has fantastic pace, can dribble well, comes back to defend, and obviously, she can score. I am very glad we re-signed her and I really am impressed with what she does bring to the team.
That being said, there's so much more she could bring if she elevated her passing abilities and game smarts, and what frustrates me is that those two things don't seem to be getting better. FWIW, I always call out players who make a childish move on a yellow (Beckie throwing the ball on a yellow in the Olympic final comes to mind). I'll never defend that.
Sophia's passing is generally very bad, and in a game last night when we could have scored a few goals if she had just passed, yes, I was very frustrated. I don't hate her at all, but I get that criticism can seem that way when everyone else thinks she's brilliant. (Which, to be honest, is the issue with her ego.) I just want her to realize she's not better than her team and work on passing to them and working with them as opposed to doing it all herself. I think once she does that she'll be one of the most well-rounded players we've seen here.
I mean, Sinc is the top goalscorer of all time, and she passes to her teammates. Surely Soph can learn something from that.
MVP player, but because she doesn't do everything perfect every time she touches the ball you feel that she Frustrating? wow. Everyone has areas for improvement. I suspect you dislike her area and for me I find when I get frustrated with a player that is MVP level, that It is related more to my skill and what I am good at or not good at. I take her skill as a whole, and would take her over any other player in the league in total, and hope that coaches work with her on the areas that need improvement so she will get better (as I hope for all players). When she first started for the Thorns, her runs were simply amazing; however, her finishing wasn't very good. That got much better over time and if passing or picking out the extra pass is a priority for this coach, then I suspect she will get better at that over time as well.
I would argue that passing is a key element of the sport and it should be improved upon, regardless of who the coach is.
I appreciate your attempt to suggest that I criticize Smith's passing because my own passing skills are bad. It made me chuckle. If everyone on here is held to the standard of needing to be a professional player in order to criticize a player, we should all just get off the internet now. I certainly don't criticize her passing because of my own skills—I criticize her passing because it's been a blatant weak spot of hers since she joined the Thorns. Last I checked, you can still criticize an MVP. I personally would not take her over any other player in the league, but that's because there are other players that I think have a more complete game.
I will say I find it humorous that criticizing Sophia (four times on one game thread) leads to me being called a hater, but the constant criticism of Hubly, Sinclair (who frankly was this team's MVP for a decade and deserves more respect than she gets), Fleming, and Beckie doesn't earn anyone the "hater" label or comments about their own skill level. I'd say you and some others on here should reflect on why that is.
I agree with Polly. I think Sophia is entering Tobin Heath-level ego. Granted, she works hard, interviews well and is respectful/humble in the media, but too often on the pitch (and now on the sidelines) it is the Sophia Smith Show. I've said this before, but I think she is learning bad habits because it often works against sub-par NWSL defenders. Just looks to me like she is trying to put on an exhibition (double- and triple-teams be damned) instead of making the smart play and passing to her teammates. She was starting to look for her teammates for a while and even said something like she is starting to trust her teammates more, but her fallback is always "let's see what I can do all by myself because I'm so great." It might sound ridiculous since she leads the league in goals, but that's just my impression and opinion.
She may lead in goals, but I think if she passed, she could actually lead the league in assists, too. It's frustrating to watch, and it's such a clear fix.
Yes, and if she's double- and triple-teamed as she often is, that means her teammates are often wide open because she is drawing so much attention. And even with Weaver out, she still has a very scoring-capable forward and midfield group.
I'm guessing that neither Norris nor Gale actually challenge her on this. If true, that's also a bad "habit" (or something to get used to), even if it is beyond her control.
Clearly you both have never met her. In the several times I have interacted with her she was extremely humble and a very down to earth person and def does NOT have an ego at all. She is always saying she is working on things she’s not great at, and I see a huge difference from when she first got here. To me it looks like she is trying. I for one am thankful we have Smith in Portland. And by the way she is second in the league in assists. Every player has things they can work on but you are overly critical of Smith.
Did I say anythng about intent? Nope (and neither do the referee guidelines, iirc). The _result_ was that she hid the ball under the bench, whether intentionally or not. *shrug*
Hard to see from where I was sitting but looked like she grabbed the ball and rather than pass it to the player throwing it in, “accidentally” flipped it back under the bench.
Yeah she’s just reverted to tunnel mode…I’m not sure if the game plan was just “huck it to Soph and pray” bc that’s the only half chances that were being generated bc she only had 1 other F who was mostly not reachable. Midfield wasn’t helping connect either. But yeah, when she DID have options she just put her head down. Gotta realize that she’s valuable (much more actually!) if she isn’t trying to do it all herself. The game plan was a bit of a mess also.
Everything is way too rushed. Soph and Linnehan in particular are playing far too direct and with their heads down.
Coffey injury obviously a crisis for a later date, but this game is very winnable. They’ve done a good job at stopping the Courage from doing what they want in the midfield- Good pressure from Linnehan, Hina, and Fleming.
Well I personally am taking refuge from the sun in the east terrace, but I suppose I have no one else to blame for my season-ticket location decision making lol
So much “huck it to Soph and pray” and Soph just trying to be the hero. Gotta get a different game plan (and perhaps some other F’s who can also help.)
Yeah, I don't like her, but I want her on my team. I hope we find 6 in the mold of Rocky because we miss a player like that on this team, especially at the end of games.
Gotham shoves Portland back to #5, winning @ Loovulle. Need to TCOB tomorrow.
Chi scrabbles out a road point @ KC. Good for them.
Considering it looked like 12 v 11 the entire match I chalk it up to guts and luck, and who doesn't want that?
Just watched (like, a few minutes ago) the live announcement of the Nadeshiko team for Paris...and Hina wasn't named, either to the 18 or as a reserve. I'm not entirely surprised, as she seems to have fallen out of favor with Ikeda over the last few months. This has to be tough on her mentality, though. With Jun Endo still recovering from surgery, I once would have thought Hina to be an automatic call-up and probable starter...but she's really fallen off Ikeda's radar. In general over here, the focus seems to be on the domestic league and on players playing in England and Italy; the NWSL doesn't seem to get a lot of respect for some reason.
Another odd decision was to leave Rion Ishikawa as a reserve, favoring older (and slower) center-backs. Assuming Minami is one CB starter (and she's not slow), it will be a pace-challenged veteran playing alongside her.
In general, this was a USWNT-style "favor the old guard" roster call. The only young stars called in are the absolute no-brainers like Aoba Fujino.
Don't follow them closely enough to understand how and where Hina fits, but they must have some very good players to pass her by.
The 18-player squads always result in lots of very cruel pruning. Just wait until USWNT announces ours.
Great news for Portland, probably devastating for Hina-san.
Indeed they do: the Nadeshiko pool is very, very deep. The excellent youth and academy system (which, gratifyingly, is as built-out for girls as for boys) is providing a pipeline of gifted players to the WE League and Nadeshiko League (1st and 2nd divisions over here) and thus to the national team. Lots of players playing in Europe and the NWSL (although the latter are under-appreciated by Ikeda and staff, imo). For the midfield spots Hina is competing for, she's going up against players like Yui Hasegawa and Kiko Seike (direct positional competition there, and Kiko-senshu plays for the league champs. Still, there were some midfielders selected that in my view just don't match up to Hina (Honoka Hayashi, Momoko Tanikawa)...but they play for European sides, and that counts for a rather absurd amount in Japan.
With the caveat that I'm a bit of a Beleza fanboi, I'm _really_ high on Aoba-senshu. Potentially an "in the conversation" player for best attacker anywhere is she can develop to her full potential. She's quick, she's smart, has the sort of skill on the ball you just kind of _expect_ from a Japanese player, great engine, doesn't ignore the defensive side of the game...and most importantly, she has that scorer's mentality. The thought of her on the front line alongside Bunny Shaw has to be nightmare fuel for FAWSL defenders.
That said, she had a bit of a "meh" year for Beleza, a team that underperformed this season, finishing third in the WE League (let down by bad finishing and giving up late goals for draws). Her finishing in front of goal wasn't up to the standard she'd previously set in her young career. Part of that was getting double-teamed a lot (as Beleza had lost her strike partner Riko Ueki over the previous off season). You could see it was getting to her...but she seemed to snap out of it as the season progressed and started scoring/assisting again.
A fun thing about Aoba-chan: despite her "don't mess with me" facial expressions and no-nonsense character, she has this incongruously high-pitched, dare I say _cute_ little voice. Makes me smile every interview!
I'm also a City fan so this is very much a mixed emotion situation for me. Beleza's relative decline started when they started getting so horribly picked over by wealthier European sides, despite their incredible academy - possibly the best in the world for girls and young women - providing such a pipeline. I'd kind of prefer she stay with Beleza (since that's a team I can travel to see, 'speshly when they play away at Mynavi Sendai...not a long flight from my home in Sapporo), but she could really kill it at City, assuming she's not played out of position (o hai, Yui) or otherwise used incorrectly.
IMO, she's best as a right winger. I think she's capable of playing her way into the favored 11 (on any team) pretty quickly.
Makes me so sad for her. I feel like every time I've watched her play for Japan, she's looked adrift in a position she seems least suited for. If they would just put her centrally, she would create magic with the other Japanese midfielders around her. She's also learned to play in a really big/strong/fast league like the NWSL and I'd say that knowledge and skillset would be really valuable for a small statured team on the international stage. I hope Mike Norris' antics didn't play into that at all...hard to get call ups when your club coach is an idiot and isn't playing you.
Given that international play is a chance for Yui Hasegawa to move forward into a more playmaking mid role than the too-far-back position she's a bit wasted in at City, you'd think Hina's recent superb play in a double pivot would have garnered her a call-up.
I really hope this isn't a case of Ikeda losing his touch (he's been pretty amazing for the Nadeshiko)...but we'll see soon enough. The team that he brought to WWC23 would be the favorites for gold, IMO...but the team of 2024 so far this year isn't.
Make them regret it Hina!
Just re-watched the incident with Smith's second yellow card. It's pretty clear to me it wasn't intentional - she's not looking at the ball and it slips out of her hands, then she pretty immediately gets it and gives it to Müller. But it still does use up some time, so it could well be judged as time-wasting. Whether it's reversible will probably come down to whether they take intent into account.
Week 12 Recap! Featuring:
- An under-the-hood look at the numbers behind the Reign's 2024 struggles. Hint: It's not pretty!
- Stoney continuing to waste Jaedyn Shaw, and an extremely inauspicious start to life in the SD for Maria Sanchez.
- The Courage are missing Kerolin BIG TIME.
- The Thorns' pace problem.
https://www.theeaststandnwsl.com/post/nwsl-week-12-recap-the-downfall-of-the-reign-and-courage
In MLS you can appeal a second yellow, according to their rules page...but I'm unsure what the NWSL rules are. But also in MLS, it also specifically says they WON'T review off-field incidents. So, if rules were the same, her second yellow may not be reviewable, but the first one might be.
The situations that are appealable:
-Red Card
-The second yellow card when a player receives two (2) yellow cards in a match, resulting in the player being sent off from the match
-The first yellow card (when a player receives two (2) yellow cards in a match resulting in a suspension) in circumstances when the first yellow card was issued for Unsporting Behavior and, in the opinion of the IRP, the opponent attempted to deceive the referee.
-A yellow card that triggers a suspension due to yellow card accumulation when the yellow card is a consequence of clear and obvious simulation or embellishment by an opponent.
*NOTE: Clubs may not appeal any previously earned yellow card that counts toward the player’s yellow card accumulation total.
*NOTE: Incidents occurring off-field will not be considered by the IRP
Whole Sophia video here. No way to slow it down, but you can see she's perfectly capable of scooping and flipping the ball to a teammate.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8AFlktRVAA/
I agree that Chesky didn't need to call it. The game was not well managed by her and somewhat got out of hand. No referee calls every foul or every infraction. But, no pun intended, Soph doesn't have clean hands here.
The replay remains unclear of the actions. On one hand I get why the ref gave her a yellow, because in the moment it appears to be time wasting. On the other hand, the video shows Smith immediately trying to get the ball out from under the bench which indicates that she was rectifying a mistake. Its a harsh yellow, and one the ref really didn't need to call.
One thing I did notice throughout the NC Game was that Sophia was getting shoved in the back everytime the ball was coming to her. Not enough to put her on the ground, but clearly in an effort to disrupt her ability to turn with the ball. I get physical play, but at some point the Ref needs to step up and let defenders know that it needs to stop. I don't expect the ref to call every bit of contact, but they shouldn't be surprised that players get upset when nothing gets called. It gets to the point where I wish there was a Thorns player who knew how to give those plays back to the other team. Right now the team is lacking that player on the field.
Obviously she's capable. That doesn't answer the question. She's also obviously distracted and not paying attention to the ball. To me the video doesn't point clearly in either direction.
My question: if she was intentionally wasting time, why didn't she waste more of it? She could have taken much longer to fish the ball out from under the bench.
Plus, whatever happened to grabbing another of the many spare balls kept at the ready around the pitch and not bothering with retrieving the current game ball? Not rocket surgery, especially when it's the trailing team's throw-in.
To me it's telling that nobody else touches the ball or makes any movement toward it. Why? Because there's no incentive for Portland to retrieve the ball and get it back into play.
But, if I just focus on body language and movements (and set aside speculating on intent), I apply common sense as to what's involved in handling a ball, and I look at the requisite dexterity she shows when scooping and flipping the ball to Muller -- which is what she should have done from the start but did not -- I am left with no doubt.
She'd better hope we don't slip to 5th this week in her absence.
2-part midseason player performance evaluations, HR style, over in Riveting. Good stuff!
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/page/nwslpowerrankings0610/nwsl-power-rankings-kansas-city-go-top-north-carolina-courage-free-fall
not much to disagree with here.
This reveals the hive mind's opinion of Soph's red card.
"Images of Sophia Smith getting carded from the bench for time wasting will live long in meme-world. NWSL's golden boot leader attempted to hide the ball beneath the Thorns bench in stoppage time of a 1-0 win over North Carolina and was disciplined for time-wasting."
My takeaway is no red card takeaway on appeal. The People have spoken. On the upside that's a dozen or so fouls she won't be suffering come this weekend.
You can't really appeal a second yellow, though...
Maybe Soph can take a guest seat on Harvey's Cooler?
"Who wants a Gatorade? Eww, blue. Looks like Windex. Who wants a Windex?"
KC up 5-2, and yet they're still going to play 14 minutes of stoppage time? Seriously?
Seattle might have one of the worst squads in the league. It's definitely bottom 4.
Only Utah’s is worse and it’s not particularly close.
Still not super confident about next weekend without smith tho
Yeah, I thought Seattle defended well for like 30 mins but man, Alana Cook has fallen off a cliff, in particular. She was so bad! Huitema did have 2 really nice goals. They were very *Seattle* goals except instead of Huerta —> Rapinoe —> Huitema/Balcer it’s now Huerta/RW —> Huitema/Balcer. Still pretty predictable but we don’t have a ton of height to compete well for those so you just gotta stop the service. Still just not sure if we’ve figured out where the goals come from if Soph is not on the field scoring or assisting. The Courage game wasn’t encouraging because the first 70mins just seemed to be “kick it to Soph and pray.”
Confess I'm relieved Hayes does not share Vlatko's soft spot for Cook. She has qualities but a propensity for short-circuiting at critical times.
You're right about the aerial threat of Huitema and Balcer. Not a game to be surrendering a dozen corners.
The post-shot xG - less the PK - was well below 0.5, meaning that without the penalty this was a scoreless draw against an opponent whose PSxG was zero.
That’s…not encouraging.
Yep. We don’t have much attacking juice when Sophia (and Weaver) are not on the field. Even with Seattle being dire, I have no idea where our goals come from. Having Sinc and Liv on the field at the same time is painful bc they’re both so slow…even worse when he puts Liv on the wing.
Let D'acquia have her shot from her limited minutes running central.she showed well
Play Sinc in two positions and baffle everyone.
4-2 KC? 2 goals in the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half? Boy, Seattle really are dire.
Make that 5-2. Must be hard to be Laura Harvey these days.
Hey, that cooler isn't sitting on itself!
Latsko to Huitema with the gorgeous finish. 1-0 Reign. AD hurt her ankle going down for the attempted kick save.
...And Huitema with the brace on the header tap-in, off service from Fishlock, and a collision with Franch. 2-1, 42nd.
So, Huitema not shying away from putting pressure on the keeper, and the Reign's mids are getting good service into the box for their tall targets. Take note, Portland!
KC equalizes again. 2-2 in 1st half stoppage time.
Reign v Current...
Lu Barnes not starting today. Injury? Changing of the guard?
Finally watched the video of Smith with the ball at the end.
Chesky sucks, but I can't defend Soph on that one.
It's not like this was her first outing with new hand transplants. She's made it 23 years using those puppies every day.
That was intentional, and really really dumb.
You think scooping the ball under the bench was intentional? I very much disagree- the ball clearly slips out of her hand as she’s rolling it back.
Still stupid regardless, but slightly less so.
On the brighter side, that was the first time I really looked at Sam's walking boot. The fact that she's standing there and putting weight on it made me far less concerned than I had been.
I heard thru the grapevine she came in with an injury and they had plans to pull her at the half. Wonder what it is?
That’s interesting bc the coach was asked this directly in the post match presser and he def said it happened in-game. Hope it wasn’t aggravated by a poor decision on the coaches part, if he wasn’t being forthcoming…
I do think it was absolutely intentional.
I watched it a few times and there's nothing about the behavior which said to me that it was clumsiness.
I've cued the video to where the sequence starts: https://youtu.be/YTzTzKpisK4?t=394
I know Sophia's not a basketball player, but she is fully adept at using her feet as if they are hands, with that same kind of dexterity. To be able to do that requires a certain amount of hand coordination too.
So, try to look at it from the standpoint of being a very athletically coordinated person, not necessarily a basketball player, but what you would do to with a basketball to gather it and bring it your body or your other hand, or pass (roll) it to somebody.
I submit that what she does is very coordinated, but that she does none of those things you would do to gather it, bring it to your body or your other hand, or pass (roll) it to somebody.
She comes down directly on top of the ball with fingers spread wide, palming or cupping it perfectly. It's fully under he control, and she uses her right hand, which is her dominant hand.
She looks up at Muller, who is walking toward the ball with her arms out to her side. We can't see if Muller is gesturing for it or saying anything to Soph, but Soph looks up at Muller and makes eye contact with her.
Then, Soph changes her hand position to cradle the ball, going from being on top of it to on the front side of it and hooking it backward.
At that point, if your intention is to give the ball to somebody else, you would change your hand position so you're behind the ball and/or underneath it, to push the ball or lift it toward that person, OR you'd lift off your left hand and raise up on just your knees to bring the ball to both hands, OR you'd pull the ball toward your body, OR you'd pull the ball toward your left hand.
Instead, Soph sweeps backward with the ball on the ground, not trying to get under it, gather it, or scoop it up.
She keeps the ball out away from her body and to her right side, not bringing it toward her left hand or into her body.
Most telling of all, she follows through completely with that right hand, changing her hand position to where her fingers are back atop the ball and rolling the ball backward with her fingers as she puts it behind her and under the bench.
Finally, once it's under there and Muller gestures with her hands out to her sides, palms upward, Soph says something to her but doesn't go after the ball as if she's accidentally fumbled it and is trying to recover it. There's a certain casualness to her actions.
So, nope, I say that's intentional and I think the red will stand.
Hmm, I disagree cause I clearly see the ball slip out of her right hand (and I don’t think she’s quite enough of an idiot to do that on a yellow) but I do think the red will stand.
I guess only Soph really knows for sure tho lol
You can’t guess intent here, because it’s really unknown.
Chesky penalized her for intent or “showing me up like she did when she kicked the ball earlier”. The only reason we know this refs name is because she is bad at her job.
What happens when players stop throwing it to the inbound player altogether or better yet, lift there legs and let someone from the field go under the seats to get the ball. That would like create more time wasting.
I'm not so much guessing intent as I am looking at (1) the physical movement that is involved in moving a ball in that manner -- from lots of direct and observational experience -- and (2) what she actually did, and when, with her arm, hand, wrist, and fingers.
As I said, although Soph's not a basketball player, she uses her feet in the same way that basketball players use their hands, which requires a certain level of conceptualization, balance, kinesthetic ability, and touch.
Learning to move one's feet similarly to hand dexterity is much harder to do than learning to move one's hands similarly to foot dexterity, if that makes sense.
Soph's exceptional foot dexterity and knowledge of ball physics suggest that she's a highly coordinated person. Indeed, I'd argue that Soph is one of the most physically coordinated ball-sport athletes on the planet.
Now, anybody can misplay a dead (or almost dead) ball, of course, but what she does with her fingers to corral the ball to start with - spreading her fingers to palm the ball like that - tells me that she knows what's she's doing when it comes to rounding up a ball.
Then, there was no movement to bring the ball into her body, into her other hand, or push it to Muller, or scoop and lift it to Muller. It was a sweep to bring the ball alongside of her body and then behind it.
The body language, constructively, is sufficient demonstration of intent. Not quite "Ball Don't Lie," but it's close.
Then again, nothing will ever beat this failed attempt at athlete misdirection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo_u4pMAlx0
Charles Barkley was very coordinated. Watch him swing a golf club. Take the average NBA player and put him through soccer drills.
Sophia is athletic, but my guess is she isn’t doing goalie drills.
You are guessing intent. Reality is the ref took that personally.
Ok, I'm a total nerd here, I know, but slow the video to 1/4 speed and see what she does, and when she does it, with her hand, wrist, and fingers.
Why on earth she would even touch the ball when Portland are up and nearly at the death, and all of her teammates are ignoring it and letting it rattle around, is beyond me.
I think it's very clear that the ball goes back and to the left.
But did she act alone?
Depends on your perspective:
Chicago set the single-game attendance mark last night. That's good.
Lots of empty seats, the pitch looked comically narrow and makeshift as hell. That's bad.
It doesn't sit quite right with me that single-game attendance mark goes to a gimmick setting.
Maybe we can have a one off game at Autzen and put the record to rest.lol.
You know, I almost called for that myself. Kept thinking.... Thorns match, somehow followed by a concert.
I'll be there!
I mean it is a 40K seat stadium, so it's always going to look emptier than it is. SD have the same issue with Snapdragon. Seattle would have the same issue at Lumen but they don't draw enough anyways lol.
One of the best things about PP tbh: Perfect capacity. Big enough (looking at you KC) to get everyone in who wants to go, small enough that there's still atmosphere.
Possible upside is a hellova lot of people saw Red Stars (lose) for the first time and maybe some will haul themselves to the burbs to see more.
Can't say I wasn't reminded of the weird Tacoma and KC baseball park kludges. (But: pitcher's mound elevator for the win.) Guessing actually getting into Wrigley was a strong pull yesterday.
Was surprised how many empty seats there were right on top of the goal on the 3rd-base line. With how much of the first half Bay spent down there and peppering Naeher, and how close those seats really were -- just a few feet behind the net -- that would have been an incredibly cool vantage.
Concerned for Sam. Wonder when/if we hear anything, and guessing Laura Har...uh...Emma Hayes is paying very close attention.
Foot injuries can be nagging and long-lasting, just ask Emily Menges.
Lets hope the Coffey issue isn't a big problem. There was definitely something wrong early in the game, as she changed footwear really early in the game. Her passing was really off as well. I don't expect her to play next weekend regardless of the severity, and Gale should know the depth is there to cover a few games if necessary. Fleming and Sugita play in a double pivot with Moultre playing as the 10 should be an adequate starting midfield. Also, If there was any concern that Coffey wasn't going to be able to play all 90 minutes either Moultre or Fleming should have started on the bench.
Losing Smith for the Seattle game is going to hurt as well, but its a loss that the team should be able to handle as well. I expect that Sinclair will get the start, but lets hope that Linnehan and Beckie are the wingers. This gives the team some speed to match up with the experience that Sinclair brings to the field. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing either Diaz or D'Aquilla starting in place of Sinclair.
Yeah I'm worried Sam has a stress fracture or lisfranc or something. Please let me be wrong.
And Becky Sauerbrunn :(
Hopefully it was more precautionary, but still don’t think she’ll be playing in the next couple matches regardless.
No Smith, no Coffey - whoa. Next game is gonna be rough.
Seattle are very very bad
What was coach ejected?
No. It was Smith for double yellow solely on time wasting.
I mean, the first one was legit even if I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt of it being kind of reactionary.
The second one was kind of harsh, but she wasn't paying enough attention and the ball got away from her in an unfortunate position.
But she's still young and whether or not they are successful in appeal, I hope she learned a valuable lesson here.
The fact that you don't think Sophia's pushing the ball under the bench was intentional shows your Red rose colored glasses (Look at the smile on her face, she clearly knows what she is doing, and the movements make no sense for it to be a mistake). That was clearly intentional and deserved a yellow. She will learn.
Do you think she was deliberately wasting time and ball stashing?
I personally think it was accidental and not deliberate. If it was, then she is a great actress.
But it was still a lapse in judgement considering, the ref seemed to have a bias against her (regarding the fouls she allowed NCC to have on her).
I mean, she made the conscious decision to crawl out of her seat in order to handle that ball while she was already on a yellow for a legitimate time wasting call. I can't say that I'm surprised that the situation didn't end well.
Silly reason to lack her v Seattle
Can they appeal to the league? Chesky had a bug up her rear and I just can't with her singling out Soph like this.
Can't appeal a yellow.
What lesson? Let Marie Mueller run a few feet next time rather than try to toss the ball to her.
Pyrrhic victory
Yep. We needed the 3 because Gotham are right on our tail, but it came with big cost.
Give props where they're due:
Hubs had a great game.
Fleming had a very good game.
Hina is a lot tougher and scrappier than one would assume.
Give some stick where it's due too:
Linnehan looked like a rookie.
Muller really struggled with St Georges (who is strong/sturdy and very fit)
Payne is fast, but she's really rough offensively when allowed to come foward.
Hogan does fine as a shot stopper, but her distribution and decision making are not good.
We're gonna be in serious trouble against Seattle. This was a grueling win, and losing Soph to boneheadedness and Sam to a foot injury ain't good.
Sam went down in the first half and asked for a different shoe. I'm assuming that she was having pain in her foot and was hoping the shoe was the problem You know it's not good if Sam subs out at all, but in the 35th minute?
Oh, and f&ck Chesky. Take control of the game, for God's sake. Way too physical, way too chippy, and that's ultimately on the referee.
One thing I didn't mention about last night's match: for the folks who are down on Smith's passing and overdribbling, I remember distinctly a time when she set up Fleming on a wide open breakaway but Fleming doesn't have the necessary acceleration to get onto the ball, and another time when Soph had to hold up and hold up to try to get someone else to break forward into open space ahead, and as a result had multiple Courage defenders converge on her.
The truth is, Soph is just much quicker and faster than any of the other attackers, and when she doesn't have anyone to whom she can play the ball due to their lack of speed, well, she will revert to her "Fuck you, Jobu - I do it myself" mode. There were times last night when she clearly did that, but they happened *after* she'd tried to find teammates who simply aren't fast enough to get forward for her.
Yeah I totally agree. Without Weaver, the Thorns have no pace on the counter, so it's literally just Smith in space and that's not her fault.
My biggest issue with how she played last night was how impatient she got- Sometimes she's gotta just hold the ball up and let her teammates catch up with her instead of trying to do it all on her own or force a pass into space for either Fleming or Moultrie.....neither of whom have the speed to get there.
I think Beckie has pace and speed to rival Weaver...but I do agree with what you're saying; it's very measured!
She's one of the fastest of a slow bunch (Linnehan's probably the fastest non-Soph player), but she doesn't have anything close to Morgan's raw speed/explosion imo.
It’s a glaring issue in the squad especially because they don’t seem to be able to use Dias out wide.
True. But Beckie was not in a position to get forward. The first time I'm thinking of was Fleming, and the second time it would have been Moultrie.
Very fair - Fleming and Moultire are not speedsters. But I don't think we have no pace without Weaver.
I'd agree.
I think you’re over indexing Seattle. They’re atrocious.
No, I know they're no good. But it's a rivalry match, away, we won 4-0 here but that score was highly deceiving, and in all likelihood this time we'll be without Smith and Coffey. Hogan can be shaky, we're not fast in the attack without Soph, and we'll be downright slow because we'll have to rely on Sinclair.
Sure. But Seattle downright stink. It’s a talent issue and talent distribution.
Curious how they look today @ KC. Have not watched Reign since the 0-4 drubbing and Harvey generally has sleeve tricks for every occasion.
Laura Harvey's cooler wants revenge for 0-4, plus they're traveling north.
Winnable still, but a challenge for Malfoy to navigate.
Nine goals on the bench [correction: sitting at home] Weaver out. Where does the scoring come from?
When are Harvey and the cooler more at one with each other (if you know what I mean), when Reign are winning or when Reign are losing? I can't really see her being a "sit down on the sidelines" coach any time, but evidently she does.
I like the Payne and Hubly pairing I suspect because Payne's presence allows Kel to play within herself and not try to do too much, and "go rogue." Payne has some maturing ahead but her skillset and speed (duh) are assets back there. Mueller did have her hands full and nevertheless I saw quite a few Mueller things from her last night. Get excited every time she brings the ball up. Want that first goal!
Speaking of, almost Becky, almost.
Ya know what? I'm watching the Soph clip at home (on the computer instead of my phone), and the ball very clearly slips out of her hand as she's rolling it back. She really shouldn't have touched it at all given she was on a yellow, but I actually don't think she intentionally scooped it under the bench, as funny and stupid as that would have been.
Would another ref have even considered that yellow much less done it? The league should rescind that, but will probably support this incompetent ref.
If she had a serious look on her face as opposed to her smiling, does it get a second look? Why assume bad intent for the second it was under the bench?
It’s like the ref took it personal and thought she had shown her up with the first foul.
Yeah, she really did lose control of the ball (hey, she's not a 'keeper: doesn't practice with her hands much!), and it may well be that its eventual resting place wasn't her intent at all. Still a foolish thing to do ('speshly on a yellow for time-wasting!), but might the disciplinary committe find the video mitigating? Prolly not, but we can hope.* The Reign match should have been a gimme, but now? Yeesh.
*And let's be realistic (albeit cynical): is the league going to want one of its biggest stars unavailable for the NBC match that week?
Yes on second look seems accidental. Bummed about Sam hope it is nothing too serious. She had the National team made.
My impression of the Courage is they are a team, well coached with a skilled midfield, fast and skilled defenders, but damn, sans Kerolin, have a toothless attack. I thought Müller, Payne and Reyes had good games. Hey clean sheet! Well done Hogan, Becky and Kelli.
This is my ultimate issue. Yes what Soph did is dumb but the priorities are all wrong. Chesky can do the bureaucratic nonsense but can’t do the actual job of ensuring the game is safe for players.
Was it really dumb? Players toss the ball back to players all the time. Getting out of her seat to do it was probably not something she was thinking about at all.
The fact that Chesky actually gave her a yellow card for that (she deserved the other one) is really a sign of a ref probably a little bit bothered by people questioning her.
Agreed. That was a mismanaged game by Chesky. It was clear from the VERY FIRST time Soph got on the ball how it was going to be last night, all night: Kurtz visibly grabbed Soph by the tail of her jersey, so plainly that the crowd reacted to it loudly, but no call.
If that’s the case I sure as hell hope they appeal it. Maybe they’ll be lenient considering she’s a top USWNT player? (I know these sorts of political things exist even if I don’t like it.)
Can't appeal a yellow.
I know you can't appeal a yellow, but is that the same rule for a second yellow that turns into a red? I imagine there are different rules there for the NWSL...
In MLS, for example, you CAN appeal a second yellow that turns into a red. You can also appeal the first yellow if there were 2 given in a match. I don't know the rules for NWSL, though...
Have to appeal.
I remember when Morgan and that Trixie got into the sideline tangle and both got reds. Weaver's was rescinded.
Can't appeal a yellow.
I think it’s obvious that the ball slips behind her. Idk if it’ll be rescinded, but it should be imo.
It also means that she’s not a total moron, which is a small if slightly hollow victory lol
Which replay are you looking at that shows that? I haven’t scrolled twitter yet bc I don’t wanna get other game spoilers bc I like to watch them w/out knowing.
I mean truly if it was an accident I’d be 100% looking to appeal. Soph is gonna make that Olympic roster, but still, it’s pretty important for players to be playing right now with a final roster coming by the end of the month. Also, Emma won’t be impressed by that…I’d wanna get it rescinded if only to not look like a dummy to my new coach lol…
https://x.com/RyanTClarke/status/1799657625354956931
Tbf, I’m sure Hayes would be fine with Soph not playing for a week cause the nats can’t really afford an injury to her just like they REALLY are screwed if Sam’s is serious.
Lol touché. Honestly to me does look like it wasn’t intentional. She’s crawling forward and reaches out with one arm while not paying attention/looking at the ball. It kinda scoots by her side. She was a bit lackadaisical about it, but I dunno, I think she should appeal.
With Sam, yeah…I was already wondering what they’d do. Sonnet would be the starting 6 prob. And they’d take Sullivan too prob.
I don't like the Nats' chances in the deep midfield w/o Sam versus attacking mids the likes of Bonmati or Hasegawa.
So we’re out Soph and Sam next game prob…not great! Sam was in a boot after the game :((((( I’m hoping it’s a little precautionary but I doubt she plays v Seattle.
My guess is Fleming plays the 6…good news is that I think Fleming was better in her minutes in the 6 today than she’s been since she got here. Apparently we have two expensive 6’s lol.
I will be v upset if we don’t get 3 pts vs Seattle bc of the Soph thing. What a dumb thing to do esp already on a yellow. They will def be out for blood given how their PP game went…
Being in a boot isn't necessarily indicative of a serious issue; they'll do that because it can be helpful when it's a scenario where normal people might at most wear a brace.
Oh yes I know, that’s why I pondered if it was precautionary. I’ve had a mild sprained ankle but it was suggested I wear a boot if I had one (I did) just to expedite healing. I still don’t think she’ll play this weekend regardless of the severity.
I imagine they'll do what they did today after Sam's injury, which was just play Hina and Fleming next to each other in a flat midfield two. Fleming might have some more defensive responsibilities than Hina, but they'll need to tag team Sam's role.
Yeah I thought they did well, so that’s at least encouraging…but Sam in a boot makes me feel dread lol. It was the first time where I actually started noticing Fleming was on the field, though! Maybe this will be good to get some rotation for Sam so she doesn’t have to play 90. Every. Single. Game.
Fleming got off to a good start, ebbed a bit, then picked it up again when she took over for Sam. Her best game as a Thorn, hands down.
This made me think lol.
https://twitter.com/go23_sos/status/1799659910243963146
Damn but that felt like more work than it should have been.
Alright, after seeing the full clip on Twitter, I’ll revise my opinion on the Soph red. Stupid as hell and now she’s out for what should have been a relatively straightforward game in Seattle.
I still think refs should use a a little bit of discretion there —like they do with fouls when players are on yellows— and just add the 30 second on, but that was never going to happen with a ref like Chesky.
Haha I can imagine it looked different live!
Thought this one might get decided on a PK after 60 minutes of futility. Just glad it was Thorns getting the call.
Nice to see VAR working as intended. That call was pretty straightforward once you had a chance to see the replay. Yes, the ball had cleared away, but towards a Thorn, and Hina was still involved in the play (literally between the ball and the goal and onside).
Chesky should not have a job. She’s a fucking disgrace. If that second Soph yellow doesn’t get rescinded…..
Why would it be? There's a well-publicized directive to the refs to curb time-wasting, and Soph pulled that dumbassery in plain sight...on a yellow card.
Chesky was terrible in terms of what did and didn't constitute a foul all match (like always), but that call? Probably inevitable.
Yeah, Sophia deserved that call. It was stupid on her part and we can hope she learns from it. Chesky is inconsistent af, but that's a yellow all day long, and Sophia should know better than to pull that crap while on a yellow.
Because every bench player in the league does that when the ball comes to them.
You’re right that it probably won’t be rescinded and it was stupid of Soph to do, but that’s a ref making it about herself.
I'd argue that bench players _don't_ do that with the ref (who's been penalizing time-wasting all match) looking right at them and them on a yellow card. Not players with a lick of sense, anyway. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one: that was boneheaded (and disappointing from such a smart player/person).
Yeah you’re right- I didn’t realize the full extent of what she did live
Tangential: man, I miss being at the live home matches so much!
I've seen players on the bench not pick the ball up, or let it roll by them, but I've never seen anyone scramble it under a bench like that lol.
This ref is awful
Cheaky continues to be the worst
What an absolutely moronic thing for Soph to do.
Have to agree. Should have just stayed seated there.
Ridiculous. I know she's talented, but she needs to get her ego (and her passing) under control.
Wow, Polly you’re clearly a hater. I’ve noticed all your comments are always negative about this player.
I don't hate her at all—I just find her the most frustrating player to watch. She is clearly very talented, and she has so much to offer this team. Smith has fantastic pace, can dribble well, comes back to defend, and obviously, she can score. I am very glad we re-signed her and I really am impressed with what she does bring to the team.
That being said, there's so much more she could bring if she elevated her passing abilities and game smarts, and what frustrates me is that those two things don't seem to be getting better. FWIW, I always call out players who make a childish move on a yellow (Beckie throwing the ball on a yellow in the Olympic final comes to mind). I'll never defend that.
Sophia's passing is generally very bad, and in a game last night when we could have scored a few goals if she had just passed, yes, I was very frustrated. I don't hate her at all, but I get that criticism can seem that way when everyone else thinks she's brilliant. (Which, to be honest, is the issue with her ego.) I just want her to realize she's not better than her team and work on passing to them and working with them as opposed to doing it all herself. I think once she does that she'll be one of the most well-rounded players we've seen here.
I mean, Sinc is the top goalscorer of all time, and she passes to her teammates. Surely Soph can learn something from that.
MVP player, but because she doesn't do everything perfect every time she touches the ball you feel that she Frustrating? wow. Everyone has areas for improvement. I suspect you dislike her area and for me I find when I get frustrated with a player that is MVP level, that It is related more to my skill and what I am good at or not good at. I take her skill as a whole, and would take her over any other player in the league in total, and hope that coaches work with her on the areas that need improvement so she will get better (as I hope for all players). When she first started for the Thorns, her runs were simply amazing; however, her finishing wasn't very good. That got much better over time and if passing or picking out the extra pass is a priority for this coach, then I suspect she will get better at that over time as well.
I would argue that passing is a key element of the sport and it should be improved upon, regardless of who the coach is.
I appreciate your attempt to suggest that I criticize Smith's passing because my own passing skills are bad. It made me chuckle. If everyone on here is held to the standard of needing to be a professional player in order to criticize a player, we should all just get off the internet now. I certainly don't criticize her passing because of my own skills—I criticize her passing because it's been a blatant weak spot of hers since she joined the Thorns. Last I checked, you can still criticize an MVP. I personally would not take her over any other player in the league, but that's because there are other players that I think have a more complete game.
I will say I find it humorous that criticizing Sophia (four times on one game thread) leads to me being called a hater, but the constant criticism of Hubly, Sinclair (who frankly was this team's MVP for a decade and deserves more respect than she gets), Fleming, and Beckie doesn't earn anyone the "hater" label or comments about their own skill level. I'd say you and some others on here should reflect on why that is.
I agree with Polly. I think Sophia is entering Tobin Heath-level ego. Granted, she works hard, interviews well and is respectful/humble in the media, but too often on the pitch (and now on the sidelines) it is the Sophia Smith Show. I've said this before, but I think she is learning bad habits because it often works against sub-par NWSL defenders. Just looks to me like she is trying to put on an exhibition (double- and triple-teams be damned) instead of making the smart play and passing to her teammates. She was starting to look for her teammates for a while and even said something like she is starting to trust her teammates more, but her fallback is always "let's see what I can do all by myself because I'm so great." It might sound ridiculous since she leads the league in goals, but that's just my impression and opinion.
She may lead in goals, but I think if she passed, she could actually lead the league in assists, too. It's frustrating to watch, and it's such a clear fix.
She’s second in the league in assists. All the players have things they can work on.
Yes, and if she's double- and triple-teamed as she often is, that means her teammates are often wide open because she is drawing so much attention. And even with Weaver out, she still has a very scoring-capable forward and midfield group.
I'm guessing that neither Norris nor Gale actually challenge her on this. If true, that's also a bad "habit" (or something to get used to), even if it is beyond her control.
Clearly you both have never met her. In the several times I have interacted with her she was extremely humble and a very down to earth person and def does NOT have an ego at all. She is always saying she is working on things she’s not great at, and I see a huge difference from when she first got here. To me it looks like she is trying. I for one am thankful we have Smith in Portland. And by the way she is second in the league in assists. Every player has things they can work on but you are overly critical of Smith.
I feel like Sophia Smith has a legit shot at winning a discrimination lawsuit at this point.
Chesky better hide after the match cause I’d be out for blood if I was Soph
Soph has a case for all the uncalled fouls she had to suffer, but that time-wasting nonsense was flat-out stupid on her part.
What did she do on the bench? I have family over so I missed the explanation.
She snagged the ball that had just gone out of play and hid it under the bench. Funny, for sure...but really, really dumb in that context.
Watch the video. She did not intentionally "hide it." She was trying to roll it toward the pitch and it slipped out of her hands.
Did I say anythng about intent? Nope (and neither do the referee guidelines, iirc). The _result_ was that she hid the ball under the bench, whether intentionally or not. *shrug*
Hard to see from where I was sitting but looked like she grabbed the ball and rather than pass it to the player throwing it in, “accidentally” flipped it back under the bench.
Oh. Yeah. If that's what happened, you can't do that while on a yellow card.
The first one where she kicked the ball away was dumb and totally her fault. the second one was disgraceful from Chesky.
10 minutes??
Having a heart attack. Oh my God. Please finish this game strong.
They have ten women for fucks sake Thorns
This is absolutely embarrassing. Can’t hold the ball at home against ten women.
RosenTor!
Sam’s in a boot.
Correct VAR call: ball was away, but the foul was on a player with the potential to still be involved. Vlear foul.
Penal!
I totally missed the foul. Whahappen?
I like that strike from Flemming. Didn't quite get it into the upper 90, but she's having the sort of impact in the attack we've been expecting.
She’s been much better since dropping back. Wish she had wrapped her foot around that one though.
Outstanding from Hubly there. Not just the brick wall tackle, but the immediate release into the break. Good stuff.
Great Hubly game!
Soph’s gotta find that ball to Janine back post. Just not even close to good enough from her.
(Also Sam’s in a walking boot)
Sophia can't pass and it's been dreadfully evident this game.
Yeah she’s just reverted to tunnel mode…I’m not sure if the game plan was just “huck it to Soph and pray” bc that’s the only half chances that were being generated bc she only had 1 other F who was mostly not reachable. Midfield wasn’t helping connect either. But yeah, when she DID have options she just put her head down. Gotta realize that she’s valuable (much more actually!) if she isn’t trying to do it all herself. The game plan was a bit of a mess also.
Bizarre call that
Fuck Chesky. Soph can’t buy a call and then gets called for being stronger than her defender.
Teacher, she wouldn't give me the ball.
Linnehan gets checked off-ball, Chesky’s like “nah” and the courage get a corner at the other end.
Atrocious
Everything is way too rushed. Soph and Linnehan in particular are playing far too direct and with their heads down.
Coffey injury obviously a crisis for a later date, but this game is very winnable. They’ve done a good job at stopping the Courage from doing what they want in the midfield- Good pressure from Linnehan, Hina, and Fleming.
I keep noticing Fleming this match. Nice to see.
Also, it is the perfect evening at the Park. Amazing weather, Pride fun-ness, just need some goals.
Well I personally am taking refuge from the sun in the east terrace, but I suppose I have no one else to blame for my season-ticket location decision making lol
lol, I remarked about this very thing (the east side being in the sun) while I was comfy in my seat in 113 haha.
I just tuned in. Sam hurt? Aaarrgh! We don't need that.
The whole squad looks nervous and tight. Way too many turnovers and poor passes.
So much “huck it to Soph and pray” and Soph just trying to be the hero. Gotta get a different game plan (and perhaps some other F’s who can also help.)
Well! That’s VERY VERY VERY BAD
How I knew this was the Coffey sub lol 😩
Weird sub.
Sub makes sense cause we don’t have a replacement six and this allows Moultrie to move centrally.
Sam being out is a damn crisis.
K.
Smith is having a terrible game. Taking on too many defenders, trying to do it all herself.
That's what she usually does, but she can usually score to make up for it.
Bad news: O’Sullivan is starting for NCC
She was really good tonight. Super aggressive with fouls, but did her job well.
Yeah, I don't like her, but I want her on my team. I hope we find 6 in the mold of Rocky because we miss a player like that on this team, especially at the end of games.