Jesus but I'm already hating having to watch this shit again.
I'll agree with everyone below; this was a comprehensive indictment of the coaching staff, and by inference the GM and whatever the hell Norris is now. This is a genuinely bad team right now, and given the individual player quality to make them look this bad is a hell of an achievement in a ridiculously fucked-up sort of way.
I'm not giving up on this club; I've been ride-or-die since 2013.
But.
The owners need to get serious and unfuck this cluster, which, simply, means sacking much of the FO and coaching staff at the end of the season or before. Shit, hand it to Lowdon, she can't do worse over the last six games than Gale has over the previous four.
I'm cringing at the thought that you are obligated to sit through that twice.
I'm cringing even more at the possibility that Rob and Karina will probably blow it off ("Just a bad day at the office. Hey, I've got it! Let's shift Soph to center back and stick a backup goalie in at the nine!").
Four losses in a row. First division professional coaches for historically successful teams shouldn't survive that. Especially when so much about the losses points to a team not even at an early-season level of tactical understanding. A team with so many puzzling starting 11 decisions. A team so obviously lacking mental discipline.
You know...coaching issues.
Honestly, Rob Gale seems like a really nice guy, and that's no bad thing. But he's failing at his job right now, pure and simple.
Karina promoted Wilkinson's assistant, Norris, when she was fired. When Norris was canned, his assistant, Gale, was named interim head coach. After an impressive hot streak, he lost the interim title. For how long we don't know because Karina never disclosed the length of the contract.
While both Norris and Gale no doubt have valuable qualities and experience, neither's resume equates with leading a championship NWSL team. Especially when measured against the new owners' goal of building the best women's team in the world.
We don't know what financial constraints Karina has operated under since Paulson announced he was selling the team. One would assume those constraints diminished greatly when the Bhatahls took ownership.
But is spending for coaching and roster building enough to at least keep up with the best teams in the league? Again, we don't know because that information is secret. Or do the glaring shortcomings so evident on the pitch point to the GM? It's now a key question — and one that will be asked loudly if the Thorns fail to make the playoffs.
GM and the coaching and the roster build (so, the GM) are all problems and all need to be remediated to begin to recover. Keep KK and we will soon see how deep this hole can get.
Absolutely so: When the owners come in announcing that goal, and they give Karina the green light to fire the coach and begin a "global search," and then promote the interim to permanent as the right person for the job, then that's all on Karina.
I'm legitimately stunned at how inept Gale's decision making has been. The *actual players on the field* matter a lot. There is simply no world that Sinclair should see the field again in a Thorns jersey outside of a testimonial or a CCL game. Moultrie was dreadful AGAIN, in the same lazy way she's been playing for weeks. Why is Linnehan getting left off the freakin gameday roster? The dude is KILLING himself with his choices.
But also, just from a pure coaching perspective: Every single player, except maybe Hina (who I hope is better off than she looked after she left the field) looks worse than I've ever seen them. They don't know where to go, where to be, or know what their teammates plan to do with the ball. It's so incredibly uncertain all over the field- The passing is imprescise, they don't have the confidence to play one-twos, they don't generate space in midfield. It's all just nasty soccer. Chicago was terrible today! They didn't have a real dangerous shot on target outside of the goal! And the Thorns still didn't generate shit!
So yeah. This fuckin sucks man. I have plenty of other sports teams that cause me pain weekly, I don't like it when the Thorns do as well. Ownership better fix this shit in the offseason or I'm gonna have to start treating the Thorns like I treat the Timbers.
"But also, just from a pure coaching perspective: Every single player, except maybe Hina (who I hope is better off than she looked after she left the field) looks worse than I've ever seen them. They don't know where to go, where to be, or know what their teammates plan to do with the ball."
Yeah, this is it for me. It's not that the players have regressed; it's that every player is essentially playing on their own. It's not a team out there. It's as unstructured as pickup soccer.
That's honestly what I thought lmao. Her passing, movement, and decision making --not really her strong suits-- were so much sharper and decisive than everyone else.
Preach. "Change for the sake of change" is usually a thing I mock but it gave us the fateful six-game win streak and since things literally cannot be worse than they are right now, give her a shot the rest of the way and at the same time, show your players that you desperately want better things for them.
I'm too tired and pissed off after that game to get into an argument about ownership, but I think it's far too early to make that determination. If they let this run into next season? Sure.
At this point, I think their cardinal sin has been letting KK do her job as she saw fit with the coaching "search." We'll see if they rectify it.
What I mean is that they are already onto their next sports franchise here in town while the one they bought less than a year ago is in the worst shape, soccer wise, it's been in since 2015. Hell, I'll go beyond soccer-wise; attendance is not Thorns-level attendance. So, focus on doing one thing well first rather than moving onto something else while the thing you just bought flounders, you know?
Eh, I think bringing a WNBA team to Portland in a narrow window while the WNBA had expansion bids on offer is pretty cool and not necessarily indicative of their attention wandering. They should --and can-- be able to own and manage both.
If it turns out they don't care and don't end up fixing anything over the offseason and the franchise keeps spiraling, I'll happily turn on them.
I really think they ought to do something now. The ramifications of complete collapse and missing the playoffs are too big, I think: for our young and talented European players, as well as established stars.
After the last two games I’ve attended, I’m definitely getting closer to agreeing with that. And yeah, definitely agree about the Euros wanting out- This isn’t what they signed up for.
I know, it's tough timing and probably too good to pass up. But the kid they already have is getting neglected for the new one on the way; that's how it feels right now. And, just because they're good sports businesspeople doesn't mean they now how to run a winning sports franchise. I love me some Little Sabas, but the Kings -- of whom they are minority owners -- are not serious contenders and never will be. That's the bulk of their experience.
It's not that hard to do, though. All you do is sign the checks, and hopefully hire competent people who know what they're doing. And even that isn't *too* difficult, even if it's been beyond them this season (for reasons I understand and sympathize with for now...though if they fail to act over the next few months...)
If Gale still has his job in the morning the new owners are a joke. It's the friggin billionaire class, they are not nearly as smart as they think they are. This team has gone backwards and talented players are regressing - I've seen that happen in England with Manchester United. No plan, no coherence, no confidence. Maybe get the ball to Soph and pray that she can score on her own. She's not making any progress either. All this back passing and then kick the stupid ball up the pitch and pray.
Christine Sinclair should not be playing anymore, full stop. Nothing to do with her past, but she's done.
Hope that Hina is okay, she's worked her ass off for this team every damn game. The Thorns are a red hot mess and ownership needs to make coaching and likely GM changes now. The fans deserve better and the players do as well.
It's a tough call to replace two permanent coaches in one season, but it's time. Even if they hang on to make it into the playoffs, they're probably going in as the #8 seed. Would be much better to start turning the page. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any chance anyone will bench Sinclair for her last few matches as a Thorn, so that means continuing this mediocrity. I don't say that to blame Sinclair specifically. I mean that we'll continue doing what we're doing for another couple of months.
To like this comment is not enough! It completely sums up my feelings. That loss, The injuries. The clueless game tactics and management. Incoherent was a perfect descriptor. Aagh! This game was ripe for an aggressive high press; But Oh wait! we can’t do that!
First of all, absolutely horrible what happened to Hina. She was utterly miserable and obviously in significant pain. My heart goes to her.
Second, wonderful to see Weaver back out there and the standing ovation she received.
Third, it's time to blow things up. Not just Gale. Not just Karina. But an honest to goodness of rethinking of what's going on here, with many players exiting.
Fourth, were the Bhathals visible at tonight's match? Usually I see them before the game. Didn't see them tonight.
Fifth, Bhathals redux: Prioritize building a winner here, not empire building -- which you're clearly doing by acquiring a WNBA franchise before you've even finished your first full season of Thorns ownership. The Thorns are in the worst shape they've been in since 2015.
Sixth, I've been a season ticket holder for a decade. I've supported the Thorns throughout, never seriously considering dropping my tickets because I support the players and because I believed the distressing problems would get sorted out and righted (which they have). However, and I do not say this lightly, I cannot support an organization that promises excellence, raises prices accordingly, and delivers utter mediocrity. This is a boring team and a bad mix, and if the Bhathals raise prices without taking decisive action to change the direction on the soccer side, then they're gonna lose me as a season ticket holder (and I have very good seats, btw).
Sorry to leave folks hanging, it was just the last "WTF" that I had last night (this morning) and immediately had to go to bed lol.
But yeah, MarPar sent me a direct message, guessing based on comments I made...I haven't responded because I'm not quite sure what to say lol. I have *so much* to say but I don't wanna punish him lmao
copy/pasted: "❤️ 😔 unrecognisable and i am so sad watching."
I ask because Chief has to perform his solemn duty of rewatching this turkey and providing a writeup. I think it will be more of a sad-watch than a hate-watch.
Already hate-watched the first half hour. To give you an idea of how it's going, here's the PMRs:
Smith +1/-1
Sinclair +1/-1
Moultrie +0/-3
Spaanstra +3/-1
Sugita +1/-1
Coffey +0/-1
Reyes +3/-2
Sauerbrunn +2/-0
Hubly +1/-3
Arnold +1/-1
That's a team that's not even contesting. They're utterly stymied, tactically shut out of the match. Individuals ARE having poor games, but it's the complete lack of connection as a team that's killing them.
That is what the first half looked like to me, but Hina and Sam picked it up a lot in the second half of the second half and Weaver seemed inject some energy when she came in. Spaanstra was the only bright light in the first half, surprised she came off. Moultrie and Sinc should have come off at the half.
I still don’t think I would want Parsons back because I do think the play had gotten stodgy but he has clear talent ID and at least has an actual feasible tactical system.
I think he would be an excellent Sporting Director. He built our 22 championship team. He knows how to identify talent and build depth. Something that KK and Norris don’t have a clue on . I do think we need a coach from the outside that brings in new ideas, systems, and tactics
I think the coach has to be outside the organization. They’ve already tried internal hires and they’ve both been shit. With the crying out of frustration players were experiencing a new coach is needed. One that is outside of this. With new ideas and tactically sound. They need an actual world wide search
Don’t forget Norris had a fit Weaver, and Gale rarely. Yes both coaches have no tactics but Norris had a better lineup with weaver and he still did bad.
Yeah, I said the same thing literally 3 mins ago to my partner. It was really bad, but at least it was more coherent in the final third. This dross is just fucking awful.
No, that was really rough. And, couldn't somebody have figured out a better way to get her off the field than making her walk off it while clearly holding her up, then doing that ridiculous wheelchair transport which kept getting stuck and jostling her about? FFS, they did a better job handling Raso's broken back!
It’s just Concepts of a plan out there. It’s time for Rob to go.
But they're eating the (hot)dogs!
Im too annoyed to comment on the match but all of this makes me happy
I think Chris Rifer said something similar on the Xitter: "concepts of a possession game"
Gosh I hope Swanson and Sugita are OK.
Right
Jesus but I'm already hating having to watch this shit again.
I'll agree with everyone below; this was a comprehensive indictment of the coaching staff, and by inference the GM and whatever the hell Norris is now. This is a genuinely bad team right now, and given the individual player quality to make them look this bad is a hell of an achievement in a ridiculously fucked-up sort of way.
I'm not giving up on this club; I've been ride-or-die since 2013.
But.
The owners need to get serious and unfuck this cluster, which, simply, means sacking much of the FO and coaching staff at the end of the season or before. Shit, hand it to Lowdon, she can't do worse over the last six games than Gale has over the previous four.
I'm cringing at the thought that you are obligated to sit through that twice.
I'm cringing even more at the possibility that Rob and Karina will probably blow it off ("Just a bad day at the office. Hey, I've got it! Let's shift Soph to center back and stick a backup goalie in at the nine!").
At this point, I can't see us winning another game this season.
100%
Four losses in a row. First division professional coaches for historically successful teams shouldn't survive that. Especially when so much about the losses points to a team not even at an early-season level of tactical understanding. A team with so many puzzling starting 11 decisions. A team so obviously lacking mental discipline.
You know...coaching issues.
Honestly, Rob Gale seems like a really nice guy, and that's no bad thing. But he's failing at his job right now, pure and simple.
FFS, even Norris got fired before he'd had four losses in a row. This one's on Karina, though. She's the one who made him permanent. Both have to go.
Let's step back and look at this big picture:
Karina promoted Wilkinson's assistant, Norris, when she was fired. When Norris was canned, his assistant, Gale, was named interim head coach. After an impressive hot streak, he lost the interim title. For how long we don't know because Karina never disclosed the length of the contract.
While both Norris and Gale no doubt have valuable qualities and experience, neither's resume equates with leading a championship NWSL team. Especially when measured against the new owners' goal of building the best women's team in the world.
We don't know what financial constraints Karina has operated under since Paulson announced he was selling the team. One would assume those constraints diminished greatly when the Bhatahls took ownership.
But is spending for coaching and roster building enough to at least keep up with the best teams in the league? Again, we don't know because that information is secret. Or do the glaring shortcomings so evident on the pitch point to the GM? It's now a key question — and one that will be asked loudly if the Thorns fail to make the playoffs.
GM and the coaching and the roster build (so, the GM) are all problems and all need to be remediated to begin to recover. Keep KK and we will soon see how deep this hole can get.
Absolutely so: When the owners come in announcing that goal, and they give Karina the green light to fire the coach and begin a "global search," and then promote the interim to permanent as the right person for the job, then that's all on Karina.
I'm legitimately stunned at how inept Gale's decision making has been. The *actual players on the field* matter a lot. There is simply no world that Sinclair should see the field again in a Thorns jersey outside of a testimonial or a CCL game. Moultrie was dreadful AGAIN, in the same lazy way she's been playing for weeks. Why is Linnehan getting left off the freakin gameday roster? The dude is KILLING himself with his choices.
But also, just from a pure coaching perspective: Every single player, except maybe Hina (who I hope is better off than she looked after she left the field) looks worse than I've ever seen them. They don't know where to go, where to be, or know what their teammates plan to do with the ball. It's so incredibly uncertain all over the field- The passing is imprescise, they don't have the confidence to play one-twos, they don't generate space in midfield. It's all just nasty soccer. Chicago was terrible today! They didn't have a real dangerous shot on target outside of the goal! And the Thorns still didn't generate shit!
So yeah. This fuckin sucks man. I have plenty of other sports teams that cause me pain weekly, I don't like it when the Thorns do as well. Ownership better fix this shit in the offseason or I'm gonna have to start treating the Thorns like I treat the Timbers.
"But also, just from a pure coaching perspective: Every single player, except maybe Hina (who I hope is better off than she looked after she left the field) looks worse than I've ever seen them. They don't know where to go, where to be, or know what their teammates plan to do with the ball."
Yeah, this is it for me. It's not that the players have regressed; it's that every player is essentially playing on their own. It's not a team out there. It's as unstructured as pickup soccer.
Yep. But Weaver looked surprisingly good in her return. Maybe that's the secret - stay away from KenBall for several months?
That's honestly what I thought lmao. Her passing, movement, and decision making --not really her strong suits-- were so much sharper and decisive than everyone else.
Right, it was so funny…like she totally missed the memo on Ken’s gameplan tonight.
Preach. "Change for the sake of change" is usually a thing I mock but it gave us the fateful six-game win streak and since things literally cannot be worse than they are right now, give her a shot the rest of the way and at the same time, show your players that you desperately want better things for them.
I think the owners are empire-builders, not necessarily driven winners.
I'm too tired and pissed off after that game to get into an argument about ownership, but I think it's far too early to make that determination. If they let this run into next season? Sure.
At this point, I think their cardinal sin has been letting KK do her job as she saw fit with the coaching "search." We'll see if they rectify it.
What I mean is that they are already onto their next sports franchise here in town while the one they bought less than a year ago is in the worst shape, soccer wise, it's been in since 2015. Hell, I'll go beyond soccer-wise; attendance is not Thorns-level attendance. So, focus on doing one thing well first rather than moving onto something else while the thing you just bought flounders, you know?
Eh, I think bringing a WNBA team to Portland in a narrow window while the WNBA had expansion bids on offer is pretty cool and not necessarily indicative of their attention wandering. They should --and can-- be able to own and manage both.
If it turns out they don't care and don't end up fixing anything over the offseason and the franchise keeps spiraling, I'll happily turn on them.
I really think they ought to do something now. The ramifications of complete collapse and missing the playoffs are too big, I think: for our young and talented European players, as well as established stars.
Agree wholeheartedly with that.
After the last two games I’ve attended, I’m definitely getting closer to agreeing with that. And yeah, definitely agree about the Euros wanting out- This isn’t what they signed up for.
I know, it's tough timing and probably too good to pass up. But the kid they already have is getting neglected for the new one on the way; that's how it feels right now. And, just because they're good sports businesspeople doesn't mean they now how to run a winning sports franchise. I love me some Little Sabas, but the Kings -- of whom they are minority owners -- are not serious contenders and never will be. That's the bulk of their experience.
It's not that hard to do, though. All you do is sign the checks, and hopefully hire competent people who know what they're doing. And even that isn't *too* difficult, even if it's been beyond them this season (for reasons I understand and sympathize with for now...though if they fail to act over the next few months...)
Would love to know if the new owners pick up Karina's contract (which expires when?) or signed her a new one, which typically would be 3 years.
Morgan with more one touch decisive passes after being out roughly 4.5 months than the rest of the squad.
Way to be prepared, Rob.
She really does almost jump off the screen in terms of attacking instinct/fluidity compared to the rest, even though she’s still rusty.
A sight for sore eyes.
Color guy on NWSL+ commented on Gale's "strong suit game." If only he had a strong coaching game to match.
I'd settle for a fat dude in a polyester leisure suit and a painfully bad comb-over if he had the strategic and managerial part down pat.
If Gale doesn’t yank Sinc and Moultrie at the half he should be cited for professional malpractice.
He didn't and he should.
If Gale still has his job in the morning the new owners are a joke. It's the friggin billionaire class, they are not nearly as smart as they think they are. This team has gone backwards and talented players are regressing - I've seen that happen in England with Manchester United. No plan, no coherence, no confidence. Maybe get the ball to Soph and pray that she can score on her own. She's not making any progress either. All this back passing and then kick the stupid ball up the pitch and pray.
Christine Sinclair should not be playing anymore, full stop. Nothing to do with her past, but she's done.
Hope that Hina is okay, she's worked her ass off for this team every damn game. The Thorns are a red hot mess and ownership needs to make coaching and likely GM changes now. The fans deserve better and the players do as well.
It's a tough call to replace two permanent coaches in one season, but it's time. Even if they hang on to make it into the playoffs, they're probably going in as the #8 seed. Would be much better to start turning the page. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any chance anyone will bench Sinclair for her last few matches as a Thorn, so that means continuing this mediocrity. I don't say that to blame Sinclair specifically. I mean that we'll continue doing what we're doing for another couple of months.
Give Sinc 12 minutes and a sendoff next game.
Carousel coaching changes worked for George Steinbrenner (well, that and his willingness to sign exorbitant checks).
To like this comment is not enough! It completely sums up my feelings. That loss, The injuries. The clueless game tactics and management. Incoherent was a perfect descriptor. Aagh! This game was ripe for an aggressive high press; But Oh wait! we can’t do that!
He obviously wants to press, but his management decisions render that style well nigh impossible.
It's like a pro basketball team saying they need to dominate the paint and starting somebody in the middle who's 5'8" and has no hops.
First of all, absolutely horrible what happened to Hina. She was utterly miserable and obviously in significant pain. My heart goes to her.
Second, wonderful to see Weaver back out there and the standing ovation she received.
Third, it's time to blow things up. Not just Gale. Not just Karina. But an honest to goodness of rethinking of what's going on here, with many players exiting.
Fourth, were the Bhathals visible at tonight's match? Usually I see them before the game. Didn't see them tonight.
Fifth, Bhathals redux: Prioritize building a winner here, not empire building -- which you're clearly doing by acquiring a WNBA franchise before you've even finished your first full season of Thorns ownership. The Thorns are in the worst shape they've been in since 2015.
Sixth, I've been a season ticket holder for a decade. I've supported the Thorns throughout, never seriously considering dropping my tickets because I support the players and because I believed the distressing problems would get sorted out and righted (which they have). However, and I do not say this lightly, I cannot support an organization that promises excellence, raises prices accordingly, and delivers utter mediocrity. This is a boring team and a bad mix, and if the Bhathals raise prices without taking decisive action to change the direction on the soccer side, then they're gonna lose me as a season ticket holder (and I have very good seats, btw).
Same. I can't sit by and watch these owners destroy our team and then lie to our faces about wanting to be the best team in woso.
C’mon, Ken. This XI isn’t working. You’ve got to try some changes. Wake up, man.
Don't question the big brains.
Sorry to leave folks hanging, it was just the last "WTF" that I had last night (this morning) and immediately had to go to bed lol.
But yeah, MarPar sent me a direct message, guessing based on comments I made...I haven't responded because I'm not quite sure what to say lol. I have *so much* to say but I don't wanna punish him lmao
copy/pasted: "❤️ 😔 unrecognisable and i am so sad watching."
"Unrecognizable" might be the most apposite word to describe this fiasco. That is stunning.
is "sad-watching" like "hate-watching"?
I ask because Chief has to perform his solemn duty of rewatching this turkey and providing a writeup. I think it will be more of a sad-watch than a hate-watch.
Already hate-watched the first half hour. To give you an idea of how it's going, here's the PMRs:
Smith +1/-1
Sinclair +1/-1
Moultrie +0/-3
Spaanstra +3/-1
Sugita +1/-1
Coffey +0/-1
Reyes +3/-2
Sauerbrunn +2/-0
Hubly +1/-3
Arnold +1/-1
That's a team that's not even contesting. They're utterly stymied, tactically shut out of the match. Individuals ARE having poor games, but it's the complete lack of connection as a team that's killing them.
Spaanstra 1st half WOTM!!!
That is what the first half looked like to me, but Hina and Sam picked it up a lot in the second half of the second half and Weaver seemed inject some energy when she came in. Spaanstra was the only bright light in the first half, surprised she came off. Moultrie and Sinc should have come off at the half.
Neither Moultrie nor Sinc should have played at all.
He’s not wrong.
I still don’t think I would want Parsons back because I do think the play had gotten stodgy but he has clear talent ID and at least has an actual feasible tactical system.
I think he would be an excellent Sporting Director. He built our 22 championship team. He knows how to identify talent and build depth. Something that KK and Norris don’t have a clue on . I do think we need a coach from the outside that brings in new ideas, systems, and tactics
Maybe Mark Parsons as Sporting Director and Rich Gunney as coach. Just spitballing here.
I think the coach has to be outside the organization. They’ve already tried internal hires and they’ve both been shit. With the crying out of frustration players were experiencing a new coach is needed. One that is outside of this. With new ideas and tactically sound. They need an actual world wide search
I doubt he would want to give up coaching at this stage.
Well he’s not employed at this time so it’s not like he’s giving up coaching. More like a break to help out a floundering team he loves
Wow.
Galeball might be worse than Norrisball
Yes, but he writes irrelevant nonsense on a whiteboard!
😂😂no I think Norrisball was worse I can never forget
Norrisball wasn’t this toothless
Yeah, that was the real sin tonight. Simply boring for 75 minutes.
Seriously. How do we have Smith and still look this boring
Don’t forget Norris had a fit Weaver, and Gale rarely. Yes both coaches have no tactics but Norris had a better lineup with weaver and he still did bad.
Yeah, I said the same thing literally 3 mins ago to my partner. It was really bad, but at least it was more coherent in the final third. This dross is just fucking awful.
I think it's pretty much the exact same tbf
I ling for the days of norris
Things I liked:
— Morgan Weaver is back, and looks immediately useful.
— Sam Coffey involved in the attack as we chased the game in the last 15 minutes. Really good player! Maybe figure out how to use that more often!
Things I didn’t like:
— Pretty much everything else.
Do not like seeing Hina cry.
No, that was really rough. And, couldn't somebody have figured out a better way to get her off the field than making her walk off it while clearly holding her up, then doing that ridiculous wheelchair transport which kept getting stuck and jostling her about? FFS, they did a better job handling Raso's broken back!
Is it like a dare tonight that we can win with a dangerous lineup in only 15 minutes?
Is Gale a masochist maybe? Like someone check his basement for whips and chains and leather lol…
Christ has spoken. Amen.
😅