Watching Bay FC for 2nd time. They look pretty damn good for a brand new team. Menges looks like the Menges of memory, not of recent times. Good for her!
Same old coaching issues. I can’t tell if he’s just overthinking things or he is too loyal to certain players. Hina needs to start and that is painfully evident after seeing the difference in those two halves. Also time to bench Hubly. I’m also fine starting Kling next game. Reyes is (probably) going to be a great fullback, but her ball
possession and passing limitations are really hurting us on the pitch. Start Kling and sub on Reyes to see out games.
Beckie's miscue put Hubly in a very bad spot on the first one. As to the second one, Hubly just didn't get up high enough for it... which is a problem because Hubs is 5'9" and Kanu is 5'8" and Hubs had good position.
It was Hubly's giveaway that led directly to the first goal- She tried to fit a pass into the midfield that Kanu picked off easily and started the counter the other way.
Moultire should not be starting. I would like to see a midfield of Sugita, Fleming, Coffey. I think it's going to take time for Fleming to adjust to the NWSL style of play. She's a fantastic player and can run for days (I believe she still holds a few provincial high school track titles) but this isn't anywhere near the best from her.
We could probably do with some new defenders and a new keeper. D'Angelo is sitting on the bench for Arsenal and I wonder if she wouldn't come back to the NWSL.
I am sorry but no. She is invisible out there. Moultrie was all over the place offensively and defensively. Fleming was no where to be seen. More negative plays then positive, soft on tackles , slow decision making, just does very little. She played her college soccer in the uS and soccer in England is not so different that there is some giant adjustment period. Hina comes in and we have instant offense. Our starting central three should be Moultrie, Coffey and Sugita. All three are contributors and very active.
If you watch Fleming for Canada the entire team runs through her. There's a huge difference for Canada for when she's on vs when she's on the bench. It will probably take her a bit to adjust to the NWSL and getting comfortable with the new players. It often seems like she thinks a few steps ahead of her teammates which can get her into trouble so that's why you see misplaced passes.
Right, but that's exactly the problem. She doesn't know what to do and how to contribute to a team which doesn't run through her... and this team probably isn't going to run through her. We should have known better. She was playing for a club, Chelsea, that wasn't running it through her, and she was on the bench. And, at least from what I saw today, in the first half the problem wasn't that she was thinking ahead of her teammates; the problem was that she wasn't reading-and-reacting to them looking for her. I saw her not get to passes for her because she wasn't expecting them. What I saw, she was switching off while the Thorns had possession and players like Smith were looking to play it centrally to her. It got better in the 2nd half, but we need her to be a player who makes others better, not someone who can only succeed when some of our best attacking mids aren't on the pitch. I'm willing to give her time to get it figured out, but not at the expense of the team.
It's not that the team needs to run through her, it's that it needs to run through the midfield. You saw the change when Hina got on the field and they started playing through the middle. Fleming instantly looked 20x better than she did early on.
I PROMISE you that Jessie Fleming is an excellent midfielder who can play in a variety of different systems. We've all watched her for 10 years through UCLA, multiple iterations of the CWNT, and Chelsea. It's on the coach to figure out how to make his midfield work, because Sam, Moultrie, and Fleming were all nonexistent in the first half. I don't see how everyone blames Norris for everything, but somehow Fleming is at fault for not looking awesome right away in a system that completely bypasses its central midfield.
I thought Coffey and moultrie looked good in first half. Not great ,but good. Coffey's second half was top notch. I think the 433 has to go, we don't use our wing players enough to justify three up top.and teams are attacking out wings behind top line and backline and stretching our def out. I don't see us bypassing our central midfield we use it pretty often it's just too flat and don't have that 10 willing to make penetrating runs. Hina is awesome and should be starting.
Moultrie looked slow and uncertain on the ball to me and took a number of extra touches, but she was a little more involved than she was last week if we're looking for positives.
They definitely do bypass the midfield in the first halves of games- The pass maps and value stats (and the eye test for me lol) bear that out pretty clearly. Their forward balls are almost entirely over the top until the other team sits back (like Gotham and Louisville both did in the second halves) and then they start using the midfield more. Hina being in the game certainly helps with the flow as well.
I don't doubt that she is. But holy hell this is ugly. When I can look at a world-class 8 and know, as I did in today's first half, that she's switched off and not looking to receive the ball in open space in the middle of the field, well, something ain't right.
Even the best midfielders in the world can't do it on their own- The eight is arguably the position that requires the most team cohesion on the entire field. If the team isn't looking to combine, doesn't have established passing patterns, and doesn't understand each other's movements, there's not much one player can do imo. Fleming (and Liv, frankly) are not like Soph who can just take off and try to sprint through 5 players if she decides she needs something to happen. I wouldn't call Fleming switched off so much as uncertain, which is probably a combination of unfamiliarity and poor coaching. And the same goes for Moultrie, who has been incredibly slow to process and completely ineffective so far.
Maybe "better" would been the proper word. I am not impressed by Hubly at all, Becky is a legend but she's not the answer and the defenders from the first game aren't the answer either.
Becky is excellent and brings stability but long-term you're going to need younger defenders to carry the team forward. Hubly isn't cutting it anymore so you need to pair Becky with a younger player who can take over in a year or two. Another Girma type player would be excellent.
I'd agree - Hubs gotta go. Becky can't be the long-term answer. Starting Payne, Obaze, and Muller together without Becky and with Hogan was a very bad decision.
I don't think there was the will or courage to fire Norris after this match. But the writing is on the wall. Even after today, we're 3-2-8 in last 13. That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!
And that right there is Loovull's franchise trajectory. They come back from 2 down, they cough up 2 goal leads. They are a 1-point per match team. Always have been.
Assuming the score holds, we're 9 points behind KC, 7 points behind Chicago, 6 points behind NC, and 5 points behind Loovull after just 3 weeks. Only Angel City and Houston are keeping us company - 1 point after 3 matchdays for AC, 1 point after 2 matchdays for Houston.
She’s a plus everywhere. Don’t care if she starts at the right forward or as a double 8 with Fleming. It might be the most obvious decision of any in the league
Maybe part of Moultrie’s contract negotiations (with the help of her parents) were guaranteed minutes after the Sinc era dragging on forever lol…she sure hasn’t proven to be starting quality this year though! Hina can’t be benched anymore…
Yeah she's been bad (and really slow to process), but she's suffering from the same thing that's plagued Jessie: There's no effort to put her in the positions where she's at her best.
They have an international break but I don't see how it can help unless Norris figures out the midfield or there's a coaching change. I hate to say that about a coach because I know it's a tough job, but he hasn't learned anything on a year and it shows
Before Norris came down at the 25th minute, I could see Kling standing up and yelling at the team from the bench. Just like, screaming at the team during a throw-in. She was livid.
What a shitshow to have a veteran player trying to coach from the bench because the coach is mia.
No, but just shows the discontent behind the scenes at that moment if it's Kling that is standing up and shouting orders because the coach isn't around. It's a bad leadership look for him. His outfit is aimless and a vet is having to get the team in shape?
It was during a throw-in...I think she was yelling at folks to get open or move around because as soon as she said something, everyone started moving instead of just standing there looking defeated. More reflective of a lack of Norris than anything Kling was screaming....
No hyperbole, even without the Louisville goals, that’s one of the worst halves of Thorns soccer I’ve ever watched. This Louisville team isn’t good and is missing its two best midfielders. Every thorns player is taking an extra touch and no one is on the same page. Half the team looks like they want to possess and the other half looks like they want to play everything in behind. They don’t look like they’ve been coached to do anything in any particular way.
It’s the most disconnected I’ve ever seen this team. They look like they just met! I’d love to know what the direction is because it looks like every player was told something different
Well, it's not gonna be all shits-and-giggles for the Bhathals, is it? They're a breath of fresh air, the players are happy being asked for their opinions and wishes, etc., But as of Week 3 this team is absolutely crapping the bed. Some changes have to be forthcoming. Because right now it looks like they bought a broken-down old nag, and an expensive one at that.
Honestly? The spastic and disconnected way the Thorns are playing today makes me skeptical they have any hope of pulling this one back. I’d love to be wrong, but…
It's a bunch of players out there instead of a team. They keep trying all these cute moves but even when everyone is looking, no one knows what anyone else is going to do.
Watching Bay FC for 2nd time. They look pretty damn good for a brand new team. Menges looks like the Menges of memory, not of recent times. Good for her!
Same old coaching issues. I can’t tell if he’s just overthinking things or he is too loyal to certain players. Hina needs to start and that is painfully evident after seeing the difference in those two halves. Also time to bench Hubly. I’m also fine starting Kling next game. Reyes is (probably) going to be a great fullback, but her ball
possession and passing limitations are really hurting us on the pitch. Start Kling and sub on Reyes to see out games.
Castellanos with a banger off a second ball to give Bay the early lead. If it holds up, we're 5 points behind Bay too.
Kanu's two goals...
Beckie's miscue put Hubly in a very bad spot on the first one. As to the second one, Hubly just didn't get up high enough for it... which is a problem because Hubs is 5'9" and Kanu is 5'8" and Hubs had good position.
It was Hubly's giveaway that led directly to the first goal- She tried to fit a pass into the midfield that Kanu picked off easily and started the counter the other way.
Moultire should not be starting. I would like to see a midfield of Sugita, Fleming, Coffey. I think it's going to take time for Fleming to adjust to the NWSL style of play. She's a fantastic player and can run for days (I believe she still holds a few provincial high school track titles) but this isn't anywhere near the best from her.
We could probably do with some new defenders and a new keeper. D'Angelo is sitting on the bench for Arsenal and I wonder if she wouldn't come back to the NWSL.
I am sorry but no. She is invisible out there. Moultrie was all over the place offensively and defensively. Fleming was no where to be seen. More negative plays then positive, soft on tackles , slow decision making, just does very little. She played her college soccer in the uS and soccer in England is not so different that there is some giant adjustment period. Hina comes in and we have instant offense. Our starting central three should be Moultrie, Coffey and Sugita. All three are contributors and very active.
I’ll have to take your word re: Fleming. So far she’s looked pretty meh.
And I think 70% of the defensive issues would be improved by benching Hubly.
If you watch Fleming for Canada the entire team runs through her. There's a huge difference for Canada for when she's on vs when she's on the bench. It will probably take her a bit to adjust to the NWSL and getting comfortable with the new players. It often seems like she thinks a few steps ahead of her teammates which can get her into trouble so that's why you see misplaced passes.
Right, but that's exactly the problem. She doesn't know what to do and how to contribute to a team which doesn't run through her... and this team probably isn't going to run through her. We should have known better. She was playing for a club, Chelsea, that wasn't running it through her, and she was on the bench. And, at least from what I saw today, in the first half the problem wasn't that she was thinking ahead of her teammates; the problem was that she wasn't reading-and-reacting to them looking for her. I saw her not get to passes for her because she wasn't expecting them. What I saw, she was switching off while the Thorns had possession and players like Smith were looking to play it centrally to her. It got better in the 2nd half, but we need her to be a player who makes others better, not someone who can only succeed when some of our best attacking mids aren't on the pitch. I'm willing to give her time to get it figured out, but not at the expense of the team.
It's not that the team needs to run through her, it's that it needs to run through the midfield. You saw the change when Hina got on the field and they started playing through the middle. Fleming instantly looked 20x better than she did early on.
I PROMISE you that Jessie Fleming is an excellent midfielder who can play in a variety of different systems. We've all watched her for 10 years through UCLA, multiple iterations of the CWNT, and Chelsea. It's on the coach to figure out how to make his midfield work, because Sam, Moultrie, and Fleming were all nonexistent in the first half. I don't see how everyone blames Norris for everything, but somehow Fleming is at fault for not looking awesome right away in a system that completely bypasses its central midfield.
I thought Coffey and moultrie looked good in first half. Not great ,but good. Coffey's second half was top notch. I think the 433 has to go, we don't use our wing players enough to justify three up top.and teams are attacking out wings behind top line and backline and stretching our def out. I don't see us bypassing our central midfield we use it pretty often it's just too flat and don't have that 10 willing to make penetrating runs. Hina is awesome and should be starting.
Moultrie looked slow and uncertain on the ball to me and took a number of extra touches, but she was a little more involved than she was last week if we're looking for positives.
They definitely do bypass the midfield in the first halves of games- The pass maps and value stats (and the eye test for me lol) bear that out pretty clearly. Their forward balls are almost entirely over the top until the other team sits back (like Gotham and Louisville both did in the second halves) and then they start using the midfield more. Hina being in the game certainly helps with the flow as well.
I don't doubt that she is. But holy hell this is ugly. When I can look at a world-class 8 and know, as I did in today's first half, that she's switched off and not looking to receive the ball in open space in the middle of the field, well, something ain't right.
Even the best midfielders in the world can't do it on their own- The eight is arguably the position that requires the most team cohesion on the entire field. If the team isn't looking to combine, doesn't have established passing patterns, and doesn't understand each other's movements, there's not much one player can do imo. Fleming (and Liv, frankly) are not like Soph who can just take off and try to sprint through 5 players if she decides she needs something to happen. I wouldn't call Fleming switched off so much as uncertain, which is probably a combination of unfamiliarity and poor coaching. And the same goes for Moultrie, who has been incredibly slow to process and completely ineffective so far.
Under no circumstance did I ever view this as the system for a team that has Sugita and Fleming. Its maddening
MORE new defenders? What about the new ones we already have who aren't yet seeing much of the pitch?
Maybe "better" would been the proper word. I am not impressed by Hubly at all, Becky is a legend but she's not the answer and the defenders from the first game aren't the answer either.
Thought Becky has been excellent in both games tbf.
Becky is excellent and brings stability but long-term you're going to need younger defenders to carry the team forward. Hubly isn't cutting it anymore so you need to pair Becky with a younger player who can take over in a year or two. Another Girma type player would be excellent.
Agreed, which is why they need to see what Obaze has sooner rather than later.
(I'd love a "Girma-type player,' but they don't grow on trees sadly lol)
I'd agree - Hubs gotta go. Becky can't be the long-term answer. Starting Payne, Obaze, and Muller together without Becky and with Hogan was a very bad decision.
Hubly spending too much time at vineyards perhaps. She did assist Sam for the tie but not looking great on defense at all.
Yeah. 28 and 26 are just sitting there. At least give them a shot and see if they can stop it....
JMac talking about Loovull's "game management" problems. It's been like this since the beginning. That's about coaching, player intelligence, or both.
27 shots (to 9). 60% possession.
And we score the equalizer in the 99th.
Jess MacDonald said that the way Loovull lost was a "franchise problem." AKA: finding a way to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory.
Scrapping to save a point at home against Louisville sucks ass, but I do fuckin love Sam Coffey. She’s gonna be this team’s captain for a long time
No quit in her. None.
If Norris has a job on Tuesday he can thank Sam.
Said the same. Should give her half his salary if he still has a job lol.
Dunno if we deserved it, but I’ll take the point.
Downside is this may have saved Mike Norris’ job.
excactly
I don't think there was the will or courage to fire Norris after this match. But the writing is on the wall. Even after today, we're 3-2-8 in last 13. That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!
How do we love Sam Coffey? Let us count the ways!
And some love for Kling
And that right there is Loovull's franchise trajectory. They come back from 2 down, they cough up 2 goal leads. They are a 1-point per match team. Always have been.
COFFEY WITH THE HUEVOS TO TAKE A SHOT!!!
Would you like some coffey with your huevos rancheros?
Holy shit! Sam Coffey!!!
Assuming score holds, Thorns 3-1-9 since July 1, 2023 (including playoffs).
That's 10 points in 1/2 a season.
Time for coach to go bye-bye.
Still time for coach to go bye-bye.
Assuming the score holds, we're 9 points behind KC, 7 points behind Chicago, 6 points behind NC, and 5 points behind Loovull after just 3 weeks. Only Angel City and Houston are keeping us company - 1 point after 3 matchdays for AC, 1 point after 2 matchdays for Houston.
I worry that this getting in the squad’s heads. Sometimes these kinds of losses get to be a headspace problem.
The break certainly comes at a good time.
The Fleming and muller subs totally neutered the thorns momentum. Dude has zero feel
Muller should be on the field as often as possible. No reason to pull her other than subs for the sake of subbing.
She’s arguably been our best defender and among our top 5 players. She should be playing unless she’s showing regression because of fatigue
Totally agree. I thought she played very well today and I was totally befuddled when Norris pulled her.
Absolutely. I didn't see any sign of her slowing.
Maybe he should go back to the press box and watch from there?
He can go back home and watch from his tv or pay to watch in stadium with the rest of us lol.
Howell’s a had one of her better games today
She's pretty good, and she's completely out of the USWNT picture.
So, we're trying to mount a comeback with a 40 year old, a 39 year old, and a 35 year old on the pitch.
Just so we're clear.
Sinclair for Fleming. Just when Fleming is starting to make some nice passes. Holy hell.
Preplanned crap like always. No read on the game.
Why!? Why Muller? If we're up and Payne needs minutes sure, but not when we're chasing.
Sinclair gets the pop from the crowd. I don’t get it
Muller had a good shift
She should be on whenever she's available. I don't understand the sub. Totally different energy and presence.
That's it. Norris surrenders.
Soph has missed weaver twice now
Don’t like either of these subs at all
Why pull Muller? She’s still doing fine!
Fleming has been excellent in the second half too, now we have sinc at the 8
No, that probably means moving Sugita back to the 8.
They’ve been playing two 8s today
Well, shit, I don't know. But I can't imagine Sinc being used there. Maybe a withdrawn boat anchor?
Coach's notebook: "Substituting an old lady, #25 is the right choice. "
Fleming definitely looks better. More aggressive, more connected.
Running out of time…
Matches have been running 10 minutes of 2nd half stoppage. I'm guessing that will happen again here today. So I'm guessing at least 30 minutes to go.
This is twice in two visits to Portland that Pikkujämsä has left with a leg injury.
Hate that so much. Looked non-contact, or coincidental.
Meanwhile, NC have Gotham down 0-1, 93rd.
In a tie match I'd be impressed with 60:40 possession.
C’mon Weaver! Gotta put that on frame!
Or just a reverse ball to Fleming and it’s an open goal lol
Anything but what she did, anyway.
D’Aquila for Beckie.
Beckie’s gotta bury that
Tough angle.
Much better.
Weaver a defensive force out there.
Fleming is an entirely different player with hina on the field lol
So then the question is whether Moultrie should move forward in place of Beckie.
Given her play to date, no. Moultrie has not played well so far. Beckie has had one monster half, at least.
I’m fine with whatever gets hina on the field. I think she’s better centrally but she’s gotta play
She’s a plus everywhere. Don’t care if she starts at the right forward or as a double 8 with Fleming. It might be the most obvious decision of any in the league
Weaver pulls one back. Maybe. VAR review. Okay, stands.
Simply inconceivable that Hina didn’t start. Just totally bizarre.
Not with Norris’ priors. Foolish, IMO, but consistent.
Just fucking nonsense. She’s changed the game on her own
Maybe part of Moultrie’s contract negotiations (with the help of her parents) were guaranteed minutes after the Sinc era dragging on forever lol…she sure hasn’t proven to be starting quality this year though! Hina can’t be benched anymore…
Yeah she's been bad (and really slow to process), but she's suffering from the same thing that's plagued Jessie: There's no effort to put her in the positions where she's at her best.
Agreed. Why Norris doesn’t see that he’s starting the wrong midfielder baffles me.
If they can't salvage this match it might be week 5 before we see a result. I really don't see them getting by NCC on the road next week.
They have an international break but I don't see how it can help unless Norris figures out the midfield or there's a coaching change. I hate to say that about a coach because I know it's a tough job, but he hasn't learned anything on a year and it shows
Before Norris came down at the 25th minute, I could see Kling standing up and yelling at the team from the bench. Just like, screaming at the team during a throw-in. She was livid.
What a shitshow to have a veteran player trying to coach from the bench because the coach is mia.
That said, dunno how Kling shrieking helps. It’s not like anyone is jakin’ it. This one was lost on the training ground this past week.
No, but just shows the discontent behind the scenes at that moment if it's Kling that is standing up and shouting orders because the coach isn't around. It's a bad leadership look for him. His outfit is aimless and a vet is having to get the team in shape?
It was during a throw-in...I think she was yelling at folks to get open or move around because as soon as she said something, everyone started moving instead of just standing there looking defeated. More reflective of a lack of Norris than anything Kling was screaming....
Kling and hina on it looks like
Pull Reyes, leave Hubly? Seriously?
Kling for Reyes, Hina for Moultrie
Yup
First half has been a facepalm game
Two of the first five halves this season have been.
No hyperbole, even without the Louisville goals, that’s one of the worst halves of Thorns soccer I’ve ever watched. This Louisville team isn’t good and is missing its two best midfielders. Every thorns player is taking an extra touch and no one is on the same page. Half the team looks like they want to possess and the other half looks like they want to play everything in behind. They don’t look like they’ve been coached to do anything in any particular way.
Yep. It's not like Loovull dominated. We got down 0-2 quickly and then continued to play like shit.
Yeah I dunno wtf I just watched. Godawful. So much just kick and run, terrible passing….
The only excitement I had was Brunn getting in the face of that Loovil player lol.
Norris gotta go man, they gotta stop the bleed now.
Yep. It’s like they had a week of training after Gotham and just used it to forget how to play. How the fuck do you do that?
It’s the most disconnected I’ve ever seen this team. They look like they just met! I’d love to know what the direction is because it looks like every player was told something different
Yep. It’s not just individual error. This whole squad looks clueless as to what their teammates are going to do at any time.
Who wants to bet that Norris brings on Sinclair at halftime?
Said the same lol…preplanned stale-ass managerial decision-making
Outside Sugita, tho? What else has he got? Rookies and noobs. That’s on KK (and the sale). Who on the bench is gonna break this open? Dias? Linnehan?
That would require Dias and Linnehan to be on the bench, which they aren't.
Yeah it’s true. Our depth is truly sad. Would prob get worse.
Sugita for Moultrie or GTFO…
Our fullback is the only one who can put a shot on frame, even if it's right at the keeper
3 halves 0 goals.
But some beauties on offsides!
Not this week, tho. I’ll bet our xG is below 0.1
Well, it's not gonna be all shits-and-giggles for the Bhathals, is it? They're a breath of fresh air, the players are happy being asked for their opinions and wishes, etc., But as of Week 3 this team is absolutely crapping the bed. Some changes have to be forthcoming. Because right now it looks like they bought a broken-down old nag, and an expensive one at that.
I’d hand Norris his pink slip tonight if it was my money. This is a hot mess.
At least the kits are the right color for that!
Starting to hate the Doritos like the tattoo kit, for how shit we play wearing them…
Honestly? The spastic and disconnected way the Thorns are playing today makes me skeptical they have any hope of pulling this one back. I’d love to be wrong, but…
It's a bunch of players out there instead of a team. They keep trying all these cute moves but even when everyone is looking, no one knows what anyone else is going to do.