Livia and Sam and what? I just think it’s tactics…Distribution to start the attack is slow. Most of the time the ball goes outside to the fullbacks masquerading as stellar offensive players. Sorry, Kling and Kiuikka not effective wingbacks spraying darts around the 18 resulting in assists or goals. Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think either has had an assist this year. One mistake in the midfield, and it’s jailbreak. Dash had two or three breakaways, only to botch them.
Other teams are doing a decent job of shutting Thorns down, made all the easier by running the same tactics game after game after game. Frustrating as all hell, especially when people on this board who know this game inside and out can’t quite put their finger on what’s wrong.
I think the problem is there's so MANY things that need work. Roster, tactics, organization...it's hard to say "well, if we just had (player name) instead of Sinc", or "if we played a diamond instead of 4-3-3".
I mean...there's also a lot of quality there; we're not Orlando. But it just seems like there's a whole bunch of little fixes we need, all together. I'm not sure Mike Norris is the kind of coach who could do that...
I can sort of buy running out of steam in Houston on the backend of a long road trip, because they never came back to Portland. But I don’t necessarily accept it after the last 3 games in total if that makes sense.
OTOH...the Dash; they're 1) not that good, and 2) a one-trick pony. No Ordonez, stop Salmon, stop the Dash, even scoreless it's a road point. "You had ONE job..."
If I was Norris I'd be brushing up my resume'. His roster choices have been peculiar at best (I kind of half give him a pass on Sinclair because I'm guessing he's getting a ton of pressure from above...), his tactics pedestrian, his substitutions often ineffective. With a squad of this quality he's...underwhelmed.
I'm now curious - not particularly hopeful, mind - to see how he runs this team out against Chicago. If he sees the past four games as "shit happens"? We're in for SSDD.
If we see a very different XI?
Hmm....
Still...at this point is it worth doing an emergency search to find a new coach? I'm half ready to suggest it is.
I’m not confident KK would fire him. Who is even in charge? What the hell is going on with this sale? It’s been like 7 months and we still have no clue about anything. Would like a clean sweep, but that’s being hopeful that our new owners will have pull and connections to get a competent coach in here…which would be our 4th coach in 4 yrs. Would like them to pick up a coach with some head coaching experience…the “no experience” thing isn’t working. Rhian’s CV was thin (but she put things together much better tow the end), but Norris’ was even thinner. He seems like a really nice person, but that doesn’t win games unfortunately…
Sophia has also looked rough the last few games imo. Just not up to her standards…I wonder if she’s got eyes to the WC and is trying to do just enough and that’s it. She loses SO many balls in midfield. It happens every game and is really something she needs to work on, but especially when she isn’t scoring or doing much of anything else…it’s a total liability. So many turnovers centrally to start Houston on their attack. And if the ball is more than 2 yards away, she doesn’t even try to win it back. It frustrates me to no end.
DEFENSE, does this team know what this means? Even Weaver doesn’t do it as much as she used to. Is this a coaching thing?
There's an old military aphorism: "never reinforce failure". The idea being that a unit that's been broken - really beaten - can't be "saved" by sending new people to try and stabilize them. Their panic and disorganization will, instead, break down the reinforcements, and both units will run.
I wonder if the crap performances have started to get into people's heads? If, instead of playing heads-up and aggressively players are coming out thinking "Oh, shit...", worried about playing not to lose instead of to win.
I didn't see that this game. We came out very much on the front foot and were unlucky not to score in the first 30'. We had the swagger, we just didn't put the knife in them when we could and let them creep back into the game.
Up front? Yes. But my thought was about the backline. Could that group be on edge, watching the misses at the other end? Thinking “c’mon, guys! Score! Don’t make us responsible for holding onto the point..!”
I wonder if Menges is less fit than we've been led to believe.
In the Louisville post-game, Norris said that Becky had been playing through a foot injury and they'd hope she'd make it 90. She didn't and now has been out. Nothing about how long that had been going on. But if Menges had to be rushed into more minutes ahead of schedule? Could explain some of her performances in the last few games as well as Nally getting 90 tonight.
And he notes that the other big problem is that the backline itself is slow and disorganized. So when the opponents get into that space the backs are too often caught flatfooted and out of position (when they're not making farcical individual errors...)
My biggest issue with tonight is the complete lack of protection for the defence. If you’re starting Meghan Nally you can’t expose her in the way she got exposed in the second half. Like this is fucking basic stuff. He was too slow to bring on fresh legs, Sinclair for Rocky broke the midfield structure. The space was absolutely laughable.
Yeah pulled Rocky for Sinc…why not Hina? You know, an actual midfielder?! Putting Sinc on instead of Hina in that moment shows his poor coaching choices and what his priorities are. Or, why not pull Moultrie back to midfield and put D’Aquila on?
Not to mention the goal that was scored against our 10 players because it took a decade to just get Sinc on the field (wtf is the staff doing there?) It was 1-0 when he made the decision to put Sinc on. 1-1 before she even went on the field. If it were 3 or 4 to nothing, sure put Sinc on. But 30 minutes with a 1-0 or 1-1 score line is just asking for problems. She turned over a ball in front of our goal like 3 minutes into playing. She’s as big a liability as having Taylor Porter at the 6 or Nally at CB. Get all 3, and well, you get utter collapse. An 8 at age 40 is a bridge too far….she shouldn’t be anywhere near our goal. Not our only problem, but A big one. Defense though…my god what have they done to our defense smh
I’d honestly consider starting Hogan against Chicago. Angerer knows them better so whatever call she makes will be the decider, but her confidence has to be wrecked…
She’s painfully slow and not very good. Menges at least has the tools. Nally doesn’t even have the high ceiling, you just can’t expect anything more. She’s been here a long time now and I think she’s reached her ceiling. She’s played poorly every time she’s come in lately. With the issues the backline has been having, I’d have never put her in a full game against that HOU front line…who wasn’t very good, we just kinda imploded and gifted them the ball.
This team has not looked good since Kansas City’s defense imploded. It’s just been “acceptable” because our attack has scored a lot. “We’re undefeated woooo!” This team should be so much better it’s kinda infuriating.
Can't blame Sinc for this one. The match wasn't ever great, but it shifted after Rocky got hurt. But the defensive problems and the finishing problems were there before Sinc came on.
I agree, I think it’s the most glaring issue…a bit sloppy beforehand, but, the midfield just reverted back to super porous mess as soon as Sinc came on. Porter coming on was the nail in the coffin…
But, our lack of depth for good players on the backline (and even our starters) is a major issue as well. Also, doesn’t help the backline confidence when they can’t trust their keeper…I think a Hogan changeup might help shift things a little. We’ve got a lot of GK’s in charge at this club…very curious what they’re thinking about her position right now…
Yep, I made a similar observation below, as well. There are not just "soccer issues" with how they're playing, but something's off about the team attitude.
Gotta wonder how this gets fixed. I took stick for suggesting there are systemic issues back in the ACFC game, but it sure looks that way now, eh? Organization, tactics, roster, matchday management…where do you start?
Sorry, shoulda been more clear, I did mean clearing the front office and coaching, not necessarily the players. There is work to be done in the back, though...
At this point I'm not sure what that would do, unless the prospective owners have a whole GM-TD-HC team ready to move in. Not saying it's a bad idea, just see lots of practical problems to solve to make it happen.
Onfield? I tend to agree that the CB situation is a problem. Nally isn't good there, Menges has been a tire fire this season, even in Sauerbrunn was healthy we're going to lose her for much of the summer. Sinc is a problem, too, without a solution until the current FO changes.
Mind...this team has done this before. In 2013 it looked like cratering in August. In 2017 it went through a massive midseason slump. I hope the players and coaches can recover just like those squads did. But...it sure is ugly as it's happening.
Even last year's team won 2 of their first 7 and 1 of 4 in August. I had actually forgotten last year's start, but 2 of the first 7, having played just two away games. Then they beat up on a bad Orlando team at home and looked a little bit more like themselves. So like if they beat up on a dreadful Chicago team next week, they could right the ship ahead of two tough away games against San Diego and OL Reign.
About 60% of the roster. Maybe too much legacy tribute. Want to blame it on the FO shenanigans that we haven't been scouting replacements for Kling and aging CBs (at least we have MF talent depth, though we don't often use it enough) but I feel like we were ignoring pending needs even before.
On CB depth I'd agree, but McGrady and Reyes are both natural left backs. Just one's injured and one's a rookie. So the Kling replacement pipeline is there.
When a team starts a season so well (albeit against bad teams), the nosedives regardless of the quality of the opposition, you know several things are going wrong at once. Team has no confidence, no energy. Positional/roster decisions are stupid. Defense is making rec league errors. The list goes on.
People who know me as a Thorns supporter from the beginning know how rarely I'm this negative. But something (or somethingS) is not right with the team right now.
Both goals that caused us a loss came directly from Nally mistakes, and she made several others that could’ve been goals as well. Woof, our defense looks bad. Bixby again too….wtf is up
Livia and Sam and what? I just think it’s tactics…Distribution to start the attack is slow. Most of the time the ball goes outside to the fullbacks masquerading as stellar offensive players. Sorry, Kling and Kiuikka not effective wingbacks spraying darts around the 18 resulting in assists or goals. Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think either has had an assist this year. One mistake in the midfield, and it’s jailbreak. Dash had two or three breakaways, only to botch them.
Other teams are doing a decent job of shutting Thorns down, made all the easier by running the same tactics game after game after game. Frustrating as all hell, especially when people on this board who know this game inside and out can’t quite put their finger on what’s wrong.
I think the problem is there's so MANY things that need work. Roster, tactics, organization...it's hard to say "well, if we just had (player name) instead of Sinc", or "if we played a diamond instead of 4-3-3".
I mean...there's also a lot of quality there; we're not Orlando. But it just seems like there's a whole bunch of little fixes we need, all together. I'm not sure Mike Norris is the kind of coach who could do that...
They need to bottle up the first 30 minutes because that was good. That had a good structure.
True. Kind of "deer track strew" if you can't do that for another hour, mind...
I can sort of buy running out of steam in Houston on the backend of a long road trip, because they never came back to Portland. But I don’t necessarily accept it after the last 3 games in total if that makes sense.
OTOH...the Dash; they're 1) not that good, and 2) a one-trick pony. No Ordonez, stop Salmon, stop the Dash, even scoreless it's a road point. "You had ONE job..."
If I was Norris I'd be brushing up my resume'. His roster choices have been peculiar at best (I kind of half give him a pass on Sinclair because I'm guessing he's getting a ton of pressure from above...), his tactics pedestrian, his substitutions often ineffective. With a squad of this quality he's...underwhelmed.
I'm now curious - not particularly hopeful, mind - to see how he runs this team out against Chicago. If he sees the past four games as "shit happens"? We're in for SSDD.
If we see a very different XI?
Hmm....
Still...at this point is it worth doing an emergency search to find a new coach? I'm half ready to suggest it is.
I’m not confident KK would fire him. Who is even in charge? What the hell is going on with this sale? It’s been like 7 months and we still have no clue about anything. Would like a clean sweep, but that’s being hopeful that our new owners will have pull and connections to get a competent coach in here…which would be our 4th coach in 4 yrs. Would like them to pick up a coach with some head coaching experience…the “no experience” thing isn’t working. Rhian’s CV was thin (but she put things together much better tow the end), but Norris’ was even thinner. He seems like a really nice person, but that doesn’t win games unfortunately…
Coach Norrissey is here for the year, as is KK. After that? Who knows.
Can Rocky and Coffey ring up Mz Dambach? Pretty please come coach us again coach pretty pleeeeaassee?!
Sophia has also looked rough the last few games imo. Just not up to her standards…I wonder if she’s got eyes to the WC and is trying to do just enough and that’s it. She loses SO many balls in midfield. It happens every game and is really something she needs to work on, but especially when she isn’t scoring or doing much of anything else…it’s a total liability. So many turnovers centrally to start Houston on their attack. And if the ball is more than 2 yards away, she doesn’t even try to win it back. It frustrates me to no end.
DEFENSE, does this team know what this means? Even Weaver doesn’t do it as much as she used to. Is this a coaching thing?
I wonder...
There's an old military aphorism: "never reinforce failure". The idea being that a unit that's been broken - really beaten - can't be "saved" by sending new people to try and stabilize them. Their panic and disorganization will, instead, break down the reinforcements, and both units will run.
I wonder if the crap performances have started to get into people's heads? If, instead of playing heads-up and aggressively players are coming out thinking "Oh, shit...", worried about playing not to lose instead of to win.
I didn't see that this game. We came out very much on the front foot and were unlucky not to score in the first 30'. We had the swagger, we just didn't put the knife in them when we could and let them creep back into the game.
Up front? Yes. But my thought was about the backline. Could that group be on edge, watching the misses at the other end? Thinking “c’mon, guys! Score! Don’t make us responsible for holding onto the point..!”
I wonder if Menges is less fit than we've been led to believe.
In the Louisville post-game, Norris said that Becky had been playing through a foot injury and they'd hope she'd make it 90. She didn't and now has been out. Nothing about how long that had been going on. But if Menges had to be rushed into more minutes ahead of schedule? Could explain some of her performances in the last few games as well as Nally getting 90 tonight.
https://twitter.com/chrisrifer/status/1657215630695862272?s=46&t=DZg_M3BPh0AnZbHifuBa0A
Rifer is right: the space between the lines is a huge issue. There’s too much.
And he notes that the other big problem is that the backline itself is slow and disorganized. So when the opponents get into that space the backs are too often caught flatfooted and out of position (when they're not making farcical individual errors...)
My biggest issue with tonight is the complete lack of protection for the defence. If you’re starting Meghan Nally you can’t expose her in the way she got exposed in the second half. Like this is fucking basic stuff. He was too slow to bring on fresh legs, Sinclair for Rocky broke the midfield structure. The space was absolutely laughable.
Yeah pulled Rocky for Sinc…why not Hina? You know, an actual midfielder?! Putting Sinc on instead of Hina in that moment shows his poor coaching choices and what his priorities are. Or, why not pull Moultrie back to midfield and put D’Aquila on?
Not to mention the goal that was scored against our 10 players because it took a decade to just get Sinc on the field (wtf is the staff doing there?) It was 1-0 when he made the decision to put Sinc on. 1-1 before she even went on the field. If it were 3 or 4 to nothing, sure put Sinc on. But 30 minutes with a 1-0 or 1-1 score line is just asking for problems. She turned over a ball in front of our goal like 3 minutes into playing. She’s as big a liability as having Taylor Porter at the 6 or Nally at CB. Get all 3, and well, you get utter collapse. An 8 at age 40 is a bridge too far….she shouldn’t be anywhere near our goal. Not our only problem, but A big one. Defense though…my god what have they done to our defense smh
I’d honestly consider starting Hogan against Chicago. Angerer knows them better so whatever call she makes will be the decider, but her confidence has to be wrecked…
Bella had 5 things to do all game, couldn’t she have at least MOVED on that Salmon goal…like, come on! I’d like to see Hogan…
You had it earlier…Salmon is a bad matchup for Nally. God, she just tossed Nally aside.
She’s painfully slow and not very good. Menges at least has the tools. Nally doesn’t even have the high ceiling, you just can’t expect anything more. She’s been here a long time now and I think she’s reached her ceiling. She’s played poorly every time she’s come in lately. With the issues the backline has been having, I’d have never put her in a full game against that HOU front line…who wasn’t very good, we just kinda imploded and gifted them the ball.
Can only hope they start taking these issues more seriously now.
This team has not looked good since Kansas City’s defense imploded. It’s just been “acceptable” because our attack has scored a lot. “We’re undefeated woooo!” This team should be so much better it’s kinda infuriating.
Exactly. There's no excuse for this roster to be playing such dismal football.
The frustrating thing is they turn it on for periods of games. But they can't do it for 90 minutes.
Definitely think the dropoff in talent in a lot of our positions is glaring.
That was 99 minutes I’ll never get back. Ugh.
Haven't look good since KC, really. That's a LONG time ago.
Winless in those kits so far
The last touch by Soph was symptomatic of the whole game.
Ref you can't stop play for a cramp JFC
Can't blame Sinc for this one. The match wasn't ever great, but it shifted after Rocky got hurt. But the defensive problems and the finishing problems were there before Sinc came on.
Can certainly give Bixby a share of the blame. She's looked shaky the last 3 games. Maybe time for a change
True, but the midfield did look better in the first half, even with Rocky being a bit off early on.
The defense is just atrocious atm. 8 goals in 3 games is unacceptable.
I was just thinking that. Sinc is A problem, but not THE problem. I don’t think there is a “the problem”, which is troubling.
I still think it’s the biggest problem but I’ll caveat it by saying there’s a big non Becky center back issue
I agree, I think it’s the most glaring issue…a bit sloppy beforehand, but, the midfield just reverted back to super porous mess as soon as Sinc came on. Porter coming on was the nail in the coffin…
But, our lack of depth for good players on the backline (and even our starters) is a major issue as well. Also, doesn’t help the backline confidence when they can’t trust their keeper…I think a Hogan changeup might help shift things a little. We’ve got a lot of GK’s in charge at this club…very curious what they’re thinking about her position right now…
To borrow a phrase from the immortal Micheal Ray Richardson.... "The Ship Be Sincin'"
This team is in trouble.
Agreed. My concern - as noted below - is that it’s not simple trouble. There’s a whooole bunch of issues and a lot of them are interconnected.
Yep, I made a similar observation below, as well. There are not just "soccer issues" with how they're playing, but something's off about the team attitude.
Washington can jump us if they whip ACFC and Gotham if they beat Orlando. Down to fourth? Ouch.
Gotta wonder how this gets fixed. I took stick for suggesting there are systemic issues back in the ACFC game, but it sure looks that way now, eh? Organization, tactics, roster, matchday management…where do you start?
New ownership and cleaning house? There is talent on this team but...
Kinda late in the day for that, even if the transfer window was open. Next season, sure.
I would consider sacking Norris, if I thought the club could find a better replacement.
Not going to happen until there is new ownership, which always seems to be any day now
Sorry, shoulda been more clear, I did mean clearing the front office and coaching, not necessarily the players. There is work to be done in the back, though...
At this point I'm not sure what that would do, unless the prospective owners have a whole GM-TD-HC team ready to move in. Not saying it's a bad idea, just see lots of practical problems to solve to make it happen.
Onfield? I tend to agree that the CB situation is a problem. Nally isn't good there, Menges has been a tire fire this season, even in Sauerbrunn was healthy we're going to lose her for much of the summer. Sinc is a problem, too, without a solution until the current FO changes.
Mind...this team has done this before. In 2013 it looked like cratering in August. In 2017 it went through a massive midseason slump. I hope the players and coaches can recover just like those squads did. But...it sure is ugly as it's happening.
Even last year's team won 2 of their first 7 and 1 of 4 in August. I had actually forgotten last year's start, but 2 of the first 7, having played just two away games. Then they beat up on a bad Orlando team at home and looked a little bit more like themselves. So like if they beat up on a dreadful Chicago team next week, they could right the ship ahead of two tough away games against San Diego and OL Reign.
About 60% of the roster. Maybe too much legacy tribute. Want to blame it on the FO shenanigans that we haven't been scouting replacements for Kling and aging CBs (at least we have MF talent depth, though we don't often use it enough) but I feel like we were ignoring pending needs even before.
On CB depth I'd agree, but McGrady and Reyes are both natural left backs. Just one's injured and one's a rookie. So the Kling replacement pipeline is there.
Yeah, getting there but I wish we would have gotten the pipeline a couple of years ago instead of the Po experiment.
Christne Sinclair, the Diane Feinstein of soccer
C'mon ref, Thorns dont need your help to lose
That's two wrongly chalked off.
Well, fuckadoo!
Crap.
Yikes, we can't even score when two of their defenders give us a favor and take themselves out
Sinc gassed after a single run. That’s just sad.
Sinc retire now, for crissakes.
Fuuuuuuge.
Who had "Rhian Wilkinson is a genius" on their Thorns BINGO card?
I know he's not a great tactical coach, but godDAMN am I missing MarPar right now.
Fuck, Sinc.
Kling's face - she knows she's had a bad game
When a team starts a season so well (albeit against bad teams), the nosedives regardless of the quality of the opposition, you know several things are going wrong at once. Team has no confidence, no energy. Positional/roster decisions are stupid. Defense is making rec league errors. The list goes on.
People who know me as a Thorns supporter from the beginning know how rarely I'm this negative. But something (or somethingS) is not right with the team right now.
At least we have tattoo kits!
Reeeeally starting to hate these kits again.
Anybody still want to second-guess my demotion of Portland to Tier II/#4?
Absolutely. Tier II should be better than this.
I guess the Nally experiment is over.
Nally, what's the dill? Gotta stop leaving us in a pickle!
Should never have started. She's just not very good.
Both goals that caused us a loss came directly from Nally mistakes, and she made several others that could’ve been goals as well. Woof, our defense looks bad. Bixby again too….wtf is up
"...leaving Meaghan Nally for dead." Ouch.
And Bixby made ZERO effort.
Yeah. Terribly exposed by Nally’s error, but you gotta at least leave your feet. Make the effort, show you’re trying…
Wow. Just..wow. Brutal errors in back. Just brutal.
Timbers' inability to hold leads against bad teams apparently contagious.
Salvage a draw I hope.
Bixby not exactly shining.
SWEET! Now going to drop all 3 in Houston. Our defense is spectacular!
#NorrisOut
There you go.
....and there's the Meghan Nally we love
IDK why Weaver comes off and not the exhausted Dunn.
Christ
Leon and Porter on...because that makes sense.
Sam has been awesome, WHY is she the sub?
Taking out Coffey and putting on Porter with Sinc in midfield when we’re at 1-1?! Like, what?! Baffling choices
Huge gaps in midfield again
Sinc laboring like a draft horse.
Give her a break, man. She's been at it for, what? Six, seven minutes at this point?
Running like she’s wearing ankle weights…
"Running"
Meola nailed it: "I can't help but think there are higher expectations for the football being played by this Portland side."
Laces, Morgan, LACES
C’mon, Hubs!