The spiraling Thorns have their backs against the wall as they try to pull their season back from the brink. Will the revival start in LA - or will the bad times keep rolling? Come chat about it all!
Y'all gonna have to remind me why we want Twila Kilgore here. She has less head coaching experience than freakin Rob Gale and wasn't very impressive as a caretaker for my money!
Right now its throwing darts at a dartboard. There isn't a lot of information about women's soccer coaches, so Kilgore is a known name and will be brought up. I don't know if she would be the right person, but it would be a welcome change from the past 2 coaches we have had. Also, there is a benefit to her having USWNT experience with both Coffey and Smith on the team. One would expect her to build around those two players in maximizing their potential.
You're right re: dart throws, but that's even more reason to go with someone who has an actual track record of club success. There are plenty of young coaches all over the world who have done more with less- Hiring a former USWNT assistant whose only club experience is as a Dash assistant because she's worked with a few of our players and has name recognition from an interim stint after the coaching staff she was on failed astronomically seems.....shortsighted at best.
You make a good point. Of course, the last international search for a head coach ended up hiring the guy closest to team, so there isn't a lot of confidence there.
I'd love to believe the Bhathals are looking for a new GM. But I think KK has put them under a spell.... the best we can hope for is they pressure her to make better coaching decisions.
What she did was keep the seat warm for Emma, as hand-picked by Emma, and help Emma start to implement the changes that led Emma to success in winning Olympic gold.
She was part of the coaching staff that won Olympic gold.
She'll probably carry over some of what Emma wants done, and Emma has been successful at club and country.
USWNTers are familiar and comfortable with Twila. We have two of them on the roster, and it would be nice to have more.
Finally, Twila was 10-1-2 (W-L-D) with USWNT. Yes, there was that horrible loss to Mexico back in February in there, but there was also the CONCACAF W Gold Cup win.
They had all the same issues they had with Vlatko under Kilgore and she was "handpicked" only in the sense that she was the lead assistant on Vlatko's staff and had continuity. They were more successful in friendlies because they mostly played a bunch of crap teams: Outside of Colombia, they played Chile, Argentina twice, China twice, Bolivia, South Africa twice, and Costa Rica. Credit to them for getting through Sheba but it didn't look any better tactically than the World Cup did. She doesn't get credit for Hayes' work just because she was there if she doesn't also get the blame for being on Vlatko's staff.
"Interim seat-warmer for 9 months" is not a club coaching resume I'm interested in, and neither is "she knows Sam and Soph.". She might be a successful club coach! Idk! She'd most likely be better than Gale! But if I'm playacting as Thorns GM, she's waaaay down my list of ideal candidates.
Well I never said that....I just said that KK wasn't competent enough to land *the appearance* of an adult.
For people here though, I'd say folks are desperate for any semblance of "a big get", even if she's not necessarily that. Esp after Norris and then Gale, standards are pretty pretty low. But again, I don't believe KK would even be looking because I don't believe she is competent at her job nor would she be able to entice *any* USWNT-adjacent folk, even from the lowest rung. And fwiw, Twila has the trust of USWNT players, and the appearance of working with Emma Hayes during a Gold Medal run. That's not nothing, and could be a draw for younger USYNT or current USWNT players. I feel pretty confident that she could put together a more coherent game plan than Rob Gale...though again that bar is so low! And you're right, we just don't know if she'd be good! But it's not hard to see why folks might want anything different than what we've had...
But yes, I personally still think we should look outside the US landscape for a more proven coach. If I was eyeing anyone NWSL or US-adjacent, I'd look at Adrian Gonzalez from the Spirit. Made that team look dangerous while he was interim HC (with a bunch of rookies), and his style of play could be fitting with our roster. He also looks like Ian MacKaye, which would be an added bonus lol.
I get it! I just think big name hunting for the sake of making fans feel better in the short term is a dangerous game, especially when the big name in question doesn't have a real body of work. Outside of Giraldez, the best managers in the league (Hines and Amoros) were both relatively unknown. Also, I think "incompetent" is a tricky label. I think her *decision making* --specifically with people she's close with-- has been undeniably poor and has made her own job much more challenging. Like, I think they *could* have hired a good young coach, but *chose* not to. That shouldn't make anyone feel better, but I don't think they stuck with Gale because they got rejected by everyone else lol.
On the player side, I don't think there's any definitive evidence --yet-- that she "doesn't have pull" or whatever abstract reasoning fans might have for why we haven't seen a big name signing yet. GMing is a spectrum. On the scale from the Alex Singer to Haley Carter, she's much closer to the low end....but it's not black and white to me.
Well I agree there also re: big game hunting for a coach. I'd much rather go beyond the US sphere, and certainly the USWNT sphere....it's just easy to see why other folks might feel like Twila would be a great hire, even if I disagree.
I know incompetent is seemingly harsh, but I do have evidence to the claim, some of which I've talked about publicly and some of which can't be discussed in a public forum. So these things color my opinion. As you say, her decision-making is exceedingly poor, and I'd say that is part of being incompetent, as she is unable to do many things successfully in her role (the def. of the word.) Is KK able to do some normal GM things to an adequate degree? I'm sure. Is she incompetent in many aspects that matter? Yes. Anyways, I'm not here to complain about her more than we already do...I just think a "big name hire" is not in KK's wheelhouse.
As to the player side of things...well yeah, still kinda remains to be seen. I've liked some moves, like Muller and Obaze (who weren't marketed at all as big name signings) and Turner, but others like Beckie and Fleming have fallen short considering fit and usage and players already here. Other moves/decisions I've mostly disliked. I admit I don't know how much the Bhathals would be involved in a hiring like Twila...but I'd think they'd just let KK do her job. Again, I feel like I've kinda exhausted myself with KK talk tbh...I more so was just saying that even if folks wanted Twila, I didn't really think that was in the realm of possibility.
Yes, folks are desperate. I'd like to remind us all, though, that settling because of expediency is what got us here. I'm personally not interested in another ride around the Ferris wheel. It may take superhuman patience, but let's try to hang on for a coach who is A) good, and B) a good fit.
As you say, that *could* be Adrian Gonzalez, if he's interested and available.
Kilgore might be a good head coach, but I'd pass until there's some evidence.
I might be over optimistic but I’m hopeful the Bhathals will want a true global search for the next head coach. That’s necessary not only to land a good coach but to restore trust with the fan base that expected that type of search the first time around.
I'd also say that the jump from national team to club is a completely different world. Good international coaches (which, we don't even know if she is cause she's never actually managed a senior NT fulltime) bomb horrendously at club level with relative frequency.
POR first goal - Sinc and Muller set that up; they have that connection
POR second goal - Hubly with the great ball to Moultrie; cancels out the first concession
AC second goal - Arnold needs to come down with that ball, but Obaze's responsible for not getting out on Spencer quicker, not reacting to Spencer's drive to the end line faster, and not getting in front of Spencer's cross; none of that should have happened
Other thoughts:
Sinc's passing in the attack was quite effective, either with the hockey assists or setting up folks for good attempts.
Muller is doing a nice job of finding Weaver.
Fleming appeared to be more effective in attack than she's been.
Obaze's body language on AC's second goal shows she knows that that one was all on her. It's OK; just learn from it, rookie, and do better next time.
LOVE Becky's SOG late in the match, and AC's TRUE bicycle kick in stoppage time.
Looks like Portland finished respectably on the night. First time we've had two goals in a league game since....May 17.
Portland has a pretty consistent issue with allowing opposing wingers to iso their CBs in space- Usually it's either the FBs getting caught high in transition or Hubly putting herself on an island unnecessarily, but it's also a lack of communication on recycled second balls. Like yeah, you'd like to see Obaze do better on the second goal, but allowing Jaz Spencer to go 1v1 vs. Obaze in space is like Tyreek Hill vs. a linebacker even tho Isa's comfortably our most athletic CB....there's exactly one CB in the league I'd feel half comfortable with in that spot, and it's Naomi Girma. My main defensive critique of Obaze in that moment is that she tries and fails to win the ball there instead of just containing......but for me, the goal is ultimately more on both Arnold (who just needs to tip that over the bar or have better hands) and Muller/Becky (who don't put a body on Emslie on the back post).
That was a blistering cross from very short range; what I see is the trouble isn’t that Arnold can’t hold it but that she even tried. The safe play was to box it high and either past her post or over the byline. It wasn’t a technical issue, but poor judgement. Not her only one in that match; her failing to cover her near post contributed to the first concession,
And let’s not let both Sauerbrunn and Muller off the hook, either, for rec-league ballwatching that let Emslee breeze in to pot the Arnold goof.
So I tend to agree on workrate and the whole “scoring multiple goals without Smith” roses. Big thorn for failing to stay disciplined, defend and possess, with a late lead on the road.
Granting highlights don't capture the tone of a match Thorns looked more in sync and dangerous than the last several matches. Also demonstrates what a giant hole in the roster was created by Weaver's absence.
Wow, Loovull up to #5 in ESPN's Power Rankings? And, when you read the Thorns and AC comments, it's clear that these were written before last night's match. I wonder if we would still rank #9?
Frankly, if the quality of play doesn't improve I'd rather we finish mercifully below the red line. I don't want to see Orlando slap us senseless in the quarterfinal.
If Lowdon could get this mobhanded mess organized, tho..?
Hasn't been even remotely fun to watch, think, or talk about this team at all lately, hence why I haven't been on STF at all over the last few weeks. With that said, that was comfortably the best they've looked in....months(?) until Weaver was brought off at her minutes limit and they lost their outlet. Much better shape, two really well worked goals, Moultrie (one of her best games imo), Muller, Coffey, Reyes, and Fleming working their asses off and even Sinc looking perfectly alright for once. ACFC really only had the two real chances despite the last 20 minutes of possession and they both were both individual mistakes turned into goals: First, the shitty hospital ball giveaway by Hubly that left her iso'd against Thompson and then really poor hands from Arnold on the second.
Who knows if it'll stick and the bar is admittedly on the floor, but that was a pretty nice response after midweek missing Soph and Hina against a team that's been playing well lately and badly needed this game- Shows they haven't totally checked out. Changing the 3-4-3 to a 3-5-2 was a nice tweak, and the back three kinda sorta mitigates some of Hubly's more suicidal tendencies. I wouldn't mind seeing Soph and Weaver up top in a two. Müller and Reyes both excellent.
(Also, Lowdon's sideline vibe with the earpiece is impeccable)
Meh. Better than they've looked in a while but still some major issues. Back 3 doesn't fix everything especially because they so often play out through their full backs and it's easier to double up on those two now
So. I repeat my earlier question; road point? Okay or nokay? Are we excited because Lowdon grabbed the away result, or depressed because this still looks like a formless Gale mass outside a nice buildup or two?
The more I think about it the more the Emslee goal irritates me. “Focus” is exactly the issue. Late lead on the road? Play keepaway, everyone has their heads on a swivel, be disciplined when attacked.
Instead the club continued to turn over and behaved like squirrels in traffic when attacked.
I’ll be tracking the buildups when I rewatch this one, too. Seemed like the Thorns got lots of half-chances…but did they create them (on the Weaver goal? Yes, absolutely!) or were they gifted by a really poor opponent?
I’d like to believe this was a step forward just because they scored without Smith and got a point. But I can’t shake the “toddlers on Red Bulls” impression.
Exactly! Remember when the Thorns were one of the best teams in all of WoSo ON THE BACK OF BRILLIANT, DISCIPLINED DEFENSE? I miss that SO much.
One factor, imo, behind the descent to the current terrible state of our defense is the fall of Emily Menges. Even with her youthful blur-like pace eroded by time, she was a superb defender and tended to be the organizer back there. You'd expect at least that level of organizational prowess from 'Brunn...but we don't see it for some reason. This is the real negative impact of that stupid affair with Wilkinson...much more so than the loss of the latter. Menges lost the trust of her teammates and could no longer be that brilliant field marshal for them.
Working from memory here, but I recall that a lot of the Thorns' chances came from ACFC derps...unforced errors by the opposing side, basically. We only occasionally created the chances with slick attacking play. Only occasionally forced a derp with coordinated high pressure (instead we have anyone pressing high seeming to do so as an individual...making relief of that pressure so much easier).
I'm tracking them; long comment above, but tl:dr it's about 50/50 for the first half - half generated by Thorns pressing, half by unforced AC errors. Only a single buildup "from scratch". I'm curious to see what happens after the break since it's then that we actually scored...
Or maybe it’s literally meaningless; two ignorant armies clash by night. Both tried to lose, both failed? Maybe it’s just a road point and that’s all it is.
Poor Izzy is like a basketball player who keeps missing slam dunks. Once is forgivable. Twice or more, and you think "Maybe you should work on layups instead?"
Signing Arnold was not a smart decision. You need your gk to come up big and she’s had several mistakes already. Two lead to goals. She’s averaging two goals conceded a game.
Her metrics in the WSL were supremely mediocre. She is what she was there; a very average keeper. Her PSxg-GA per 90 is -0.11. Hogan’s is -0.08; they’re virtually identical against the shot from run of play.
That’s what I don’t understand she played for West Ham. A mediocre team that did terribly but her individual stats weren’t good either. Kk saw her in the World Cup with a much smaller sample size and went based off that. But larger sample size is with club and it’s not good metrics.
Her distribution tonight was not impressive. To be fair, better than any keeper since Franch. But what was she climbing over Bright for? Pushing one over the bar except it went straight to the far post instead. Punching an uncontested catchable ball straight into the air? Color me unconvinced.
She had a monster PK shootout at the WC and made her rep there. But yeah; not horrible, not great. Good distribution, meh against the shot, makes some poor technical choices.
She LOOKS like she has the tools - size, mobility, distribution. She was kinda like "found money," and to be fair I think Karina -- or somebody below her, more accurately -- has been pretty good at finding and bringing in players on the cheap who might develop here. But, as you've noted, she wasn't exactly an acquisition based on need, and the team was doing fine with Hogan between the posts. So, why???
I was excited about her when we signed her because of her distribution and I’d only seen her play for the Matildas but she’s been very disappointing so far.
Hard to say. Difficult grab. BUT if she wasn’t confident she could hold the safe play is to box it high and back over her bar. That’s the minimal requirement and she failed.
How does the group feel if this scoreline holds? Good with the road point? Or bad that outside of that one pretty buildup things still look pretty rec league?
Nothing has changed. Sloppiness combined with low urgency, poor organization, and some godawful passes and first touches. Enough moments of goodness to think it doesn't have to be this way. But ultimately enough derps to just sigh and say it is.
Still feel the same bc the larger problems still remain. And they still don't look good. And AC is not good. Drawing with this AC team does not portend good things in games to come, imo. Sorry to be realistic about things. I'd say the same even if they squeak out a win.
True, but this thing ain't gonna magically start up. Best to see what you think you might have among the young'uns and get a head start on the offseason. Definitely new coach needed, but we also need to change out the turkey that gave us this coaching and roster construction mess.
Yeah, that's kind of an own-goal isn't it? We'll be paying him after we sack him instead of just finding a way to keep him on as interim for the whole season and make a decision.
My point is that just tossing the rooks and noobs out in the existing goatscrew just risks frustrating them and teaching them bad habits.
So it’s not that we “also need” a better HC. That’s THE need, the key, the #1 fix. Once there’s someone who can reform the existing clusterfuck the right mix of veterans and noobs, stars and squad players can be crafted.
That makes sense. BUT... I'd point to Orlando. Remember how incredibly bad and scared they, as a young team, looked when they were here at the beginning of 2023? And look at them now. Then again, Seb Hines turned out to be exactly the right guy for the job... which is your point about coaching.
Yep. You hand those kids to Norris or Gale and those that aren't out of the game are undertrained and headed for mediocrity. It's ALL about leadership.
This CR is letting a TON of shifty shit go. Luckily! Hubly compounded her 10th minute derp by barging Leroux down from behind inside the six. Sinc with a studs-up “go ahead gimme a red!” challenge…AC is hacking, too, so it’s him, not some sort of prejudice.
For once I’m not screaming about Sinc. She’s been useful, whether it’s because she’s playing the NWSL equivalent of a Mexican side or just having a great game.
Idk but the part that pisses me off the most is Peeps isn’t part of the squad. When this game is screaming for fast forwards. A front three of weaver Turner Payton is just different
What’s insane is how completely fucking beatable this AC is. They’re bad! Even with our chaotic DIY “attack” we’re getting tons of half-chances! They constantly turn the ball over!
We have GOT to be able to win a rec league slopfest like this!
The problem is that this XI - as most of our XIs all season - is basically a bunch of strangers. Everyone is freelancing. There have been some nice passes…but inevitably the third or fourth pass goes to AC or into touch or turns into a poor shot. Ugh.
I watched Yokohama FC Seagulls v Iga FC Kunoichi a couple days ago. Second division teams, second and fourth on the table, respectively. Good, exciting match that ended in a 3-3 draw.
In terms of understanding between players, tactical cohesion, and so forth, this Thorns team makes both of them look like prime Barcelona in comparison. Both teams were visibly better...massively so...in these areas. And second division in Japan is basically semi-pro.
Tweed seems convinced her goat rodeo can play out of the back. Which I encourage! So far the Haracic and the AC backline has been one of our most dangerous attackers.
The thing is…ACFC is kind of a mess. We’re getting turnovers and generating some attack. Even with our own issues, these people are beatable. But can this squad stop its own derping and do that..?
Sooo... Twila Kilgore just left the USWNT to pursue other coaching opportunities.
Could it be...?
Y'all gonna have to remind me why we want Twila Kilgore here. She has less head coaching experience than freakin Rob Gale and wasn't very impressive as a caretaker for my money!
Right now its throwing darts at a dartboard. There isn't a lot of information about women's soccer coaches, so Kilgore is a known name and will be brought up. I don't know if she would be the right person, but it would be a welcome change from the past 2 coaches we have had. Also, there is a benefit to her having USWNT experience with both Coffey and Smith on the team. One would expect her to build around those two players in maximizing their potential.
You're right re: dart throws, but that's even more reason to go with someone who has an actual track record of club success. There are plenty of young coaches all over the world who have done more with less- Hiring a former USWNT assistant whose only club experience is as a Dash assistant because she's worked with a few of our players and has name recognition from an interim stint after the coaching staff she was on failed astronomically seems.....shortsighted at best.
You make a good point. Of course, the last international search for a head coach ended up hiring the guy closest to team, so there isn't a lot of confidence there.
I don't necessarily disagree, but at this point I believe almost anyone would be an improvement...
My guess is we need to find the GM first and then make a decision on a coach.
I'd love to believe the Bhathals are looking for a new GM. But I think KK has put them under a spell.... the best we can hope for is they pressure her to make better coaching decisions.
God, we could only hope, but I'm gonna guess it's SD.
I feel like KK is prob not competent enough to land her. And may not even be looking. My guess is SD too….
Again, I must ask: What has she done in her career to be considered a clear upgrade, let alone a big fish in the coaching world?
What she did was keep the seat warm for Emma, as hand-picked by Emma, and help Emma start to implement the changes that led Emma to success in winning Olympic gold.
She was part of the coaching staff that won Olympic gold.
She'll probably carry over some of what Emma wants done, and Emma has been successful at club and country.
USWNTers are familiar and comfortable with Twila. We have two of them on the roster, and it would be nice to have more.
Finally, Twila was 10-1-2 (W-L-D) with USWNT. Yes, there was that horrible loss to Mexico back in February in there, but there was also the CONCACAF W Gold Cup win.
They had all the same issues they had with Vlatko under Kilgore and she was "handpicked" only in the sense that she was the lead assistant on Vlatko's staff and had continuity. They were more successful in friendlies because they mostly played a bunch of crap teams: Outside of Colombia, they played Chile, Argentina twice, China twice, Bolivia, South Africa twice, and Costa Rica. Credit to them for getting through Sheba but it didn't look any better tactically than the World Cup did. She doesn't get credit for Hayes' work just because she was there if she doesn't also get the blame for being on Vlatko's staff.
"Interim seat-warmer for 9 months" is not a club coaching resume I'm interested in, and neither is "she knows Sam and Soph.". She might be a successful club coach! Idk! She'd most likely be better than Gale! But if I'm playacting as Thorns GM, she's waaaay down my list of ideal candidates.
Well I never said that....I just said that KK wasn't competent enough to land *the appearance* of an adult.
For people here though, I'd say folks are desperate for any semblance of "a big get", even if she's not necessarily that. Esp after Norris and then Gale, standards are pretty pretty low. But again, I don't believe KK would even be looking because I don't believe she is competent at her job nor would she be able to entice *any* USWNT-adjacent folk, even from the lowest rung. And fwiw, Twila has the trust of USWNT players, and the appearance of working with Emma Hayes during a Gold Medal run. That's not nothing, and could be a draw for younger USYNT or current USWNT players. I feel pretty confident that she could put together a more coherent game plan than Rob Gale...though again that bar is so low! And you're right, we just don't know if she'd be good! But it's not hard to see why folks might want anything different than what we've had...
But yes, I personally still think we should look outside the US landscape for a more proven coach. If I was eyeing anyone NWSL or US-adjacent, I'd look at Adrian Gonzalez from the Spirit. Made that team look dangerous while he was interim HC (with a bunch of rookies), and his style of play could be fitting with our roster. He also looks like Ian MacKaye, which would be an added bonus lol.
I get it! I just think big name hunting for the sake of making fans feel better in the short term is a dangerous game, especially when the big name in question doesn't have a real body of work. Outside of Giraldez, the best managers in the league (Hines and Amoros) were both relatively unknown. Also, I think "incompetent" is a tricky label. I think her *decision making* --specifically with people she's close with-- has been undeniably poor and has made her own job much more challenging. Like, I think they *could* have hired a good young coach, but *chose* not to. That shouldn't make anyone feel better, but I don't think they stuck with Gale because they got rejected by everyone else lol.
On the player side, I don't think there's any definitive evidence --yet-- that she "doesn't have pull" or whatever abstract reasoning fans might have for why we haven't seen a big name signing yet. GMing is a spectrum. On the scale from the Alex Singer to Haley Carter, she's much closer to the low end....but it's not black and white to me.
Well I agree there also re: big game hunting for a coach. I'd much rather go beyond the US sphere, and certainly the USWNT sphere....it's just easy to see why other folks might feel like Twila would be a great hire, even if I disagree.
I know incompetent is seemingly harsh, but I do have evidence to the claim, some of which I've talked about publicly and some of which can't be discussed in a public forum. So these things color my opinion. As you say, her decision-making is exceedingly poor, and I'd say that is part of being incompetent, as she is unable to do many things successfully in her role (the def. of the word.) Is KK able to do some normal GM things to an adequate degree? I'm sure. Is she incompetent in many aspects that matter? Yes. Anyways, I'm not here to complain about her more than we already do...I just think a "big name hire" is not in KK's wheelhouse.
As to the player side of things...well yeah, still kinda remains to be seen. I've liked some moves, like Muller and Obaze (who weren't marketed at all as big name signings) and Turner, but others like Beckie and Fleming have fallen short considering fit and usage and players already here. Other moves/decisions I've mostly disliked. I admit I don't know how much the Bhathals would be involved in a hiring like Twila...but I'd think they'd just let KK do her job. Again, I feel like I've kinda exhausted myself with KK talk tbh...I more so was just saying that even if folks wanted Twila, I didn't really think that was in the realm of possibility.
Yes, folks are desperate. I'd like to remind us all, though, that settling because of expediency is what got us here. I'm personally not interested in another ride around the Ferris wheel. It may take superhuman patience, but let's try to hang on for a coach who is A) good, and B) a good fit.
As you say, that *could* be Adrian Gonzalez, if he's interested and available.
Kilgore might be a good head coach, but I'd pass until there's some evidence.
I might be over optimistic but I’m hopeful the Bhathals will want a true global search for the next head coach. That’s necessary not only to land a good coach but to restore trust with the fan base that expected that type of search the first time around.
I do think that one could argue that she is at least partly responsible for whipping the USWNT into shape for the gold medal?
One could argue that! Wouldn't be me though!
I'd also say that the jump from national team to club is a completely different world. Good international coaches (which, we don't even know if she is cause she's never actually managed a senior NT fulltime) bomb horrendously at club level with relative frequency.
And vice versa (hi, Vlatko!)
Theo Lloyd Hughes seems to be leaning Houston:
https://x.com/theolloydhughes/status/1838596710282432774
Highlights package: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTzxqeUYKws
AC first goal - on Hubly all the way
POR first goal - Sinc and Muller set that up; they have that connection
POR second goal - Hubly with the great ball to Moultrie; cancels out the first concession
AC second goal - Arnold needs to come down with that ball, but Obaze's responsible for not getting out on Spencer quicker, not reacting to Spencer's drive to the end line faster, and not getting in front of Spencer's cross; none of that should have happened
Other thoughts:
Sinc's passing in the attack was quite effective, either with the hockey assists or setting up folks for good attempts.
Muller is doing a nice job of finding Weaver.
Fleming appeared to be more effective in attack than she's been.
Obaze's body language on AC's second goal shows she knows that that one was all on her. It's OK; just learn from it, rookie, and do better next time.
LOVE Becky's SOG late in the match, and AC's TRUE bicycle kick in stoppage time.
Looks like Portland finished respectably on the night. First time we've had two goals in a league game since....May 17.
Portland has a pretty consistent issue with allowing opposing wingers to iso their CBs in space- Usually it's either the FBs getting caught high in transition or Hubly putting herself on an island unnecessarily, but it's also a lack of communication on recycled second balls. Like yeah, you'd like to see Obaze do better on the second goal, but allowing Jaz Spencer to go 1v1 vs. Obaze in space is like Tyreek Hill vs. a linebacker even tho Isa's comfortably our most athletic CB....there's exactly one CB in the league I'd feel half comfortable with in that spot, and it's Naomi Girma. My main defensive critique of Obaze in that moment is that she tries and fails to win the ball there instead of just containing......but for me, the goal is ultimately more on both Arnold (who just needs to tip that over the bar or have better hands) and Muller/Becky (who don't put a body on Emslie on the back post).
That was a blistering cross from very short range; what I see is the trouble isn’t that Arnold can’t hold it but that she even tried. The safe play was to box it high and either past her post or over the byline. It wasn’t a technical issue, but poor judgement. Not her only one in that match; her failing to cover her near post contributed to the first concession,
And let’s not let both Sauerbrunn and Muller off the hook, either, for rec-league ballwatching that let Emslee breeze in to pot the Arnold goof.
So I tend to agree on workrate and the whole “scoring multiple goals without Smith” roses. Big thorn for failing to stay disciplined, defend and possess, with a late lead on the road.
Granting highlights don't capture the tone of a match Thorns looked more in sync and dangerous than the last several matches. Also demonstrates what a giant hole in the roster was created by Weaver's absence.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/page/nwslpowerrankings0923/nwsl-power-rankings-washington-spirit-stumble-orlando-pride-unbeaten
Wow, Loovull up to #5 in ESPN's Power Rankings? And, when you read the Thorns and AC comments, it's clear that these were written before last night's match. I wonder if we would still rank #9?
All kidding aside, I hope Gale's illness that led him to miss last night's match isn't anything serious.
Rephrase that...Bad memories. Lowdon for the remainder of the season. Yes or no?
Can't be worse, maybe the next dead cat/new coach bounce will take us into playoffs lol.
Frankly, if the quality of play doesn't improve I'd rather we finish mercifully below the red line. I don't want to see Orlando slap us senseless in the quarterfinal.
If Lowdon could get this mobhanded mess organized, tho..?
Yeah, at some point you just gotta stop digging, whether or not you're getting out of the hole...
sure why not. can't be worse!
We haven't won a regular season match since July 8, and we have exactly two wins since May 18.
Hasn't been even remotely fun to watch, think, or talk about this team at all lately, hence why I haven't been on STF at all over the last few weeks. With that said, that was comfortably the best they've looked in....months(?) until Weaver was brought off at her minutes limit and they lost their outlet. Much better shape, two really well worked goals, Moultrie (one of her best games imo), Muller, Coffey, Reyes, and Fleming working their asses off and even Sinc looking perfectly alright for once. ACFC really only had the two real chances despite the last 20 minutes of possession and they both were both individual mistakes turned into goals: First, the shitty hospital ball giveaway by Hubly that left her iso'd against Thompson and then really poor hands from Arnold on the second.
Who knows if it'll stick and the bar is admittedly on the floor, but that was a pretty nice response after midweek missing Soph and Hina against a team that's been playing well lately and badly needed this game- Shows they haven't totally checked out. Changing the 3-4-3 to a 3-5-2 was a nice tweak, and the back three kinda sorta mitigates some of Hubly's more suicidal tendencies. I wouldn't mind seeing Soph and Weaver up top in a two. Müller and Reyes both excellent.
(Also, Lowdon's sideline vibe with the earpiece is impeccable)
I didn't see Lowden's sideline vibe, but if it's anything like this lady I'm in
https://images.app.goo.gl/xRF66gTS1fiQDRwi9
Was Norris whispering to her? Was Ken?
An upgrade on losing 1-5 when the Shield was ours for the taking. But not by much.
Meh. Better than they've looked in a while but still some major issues. Back 3 doesn't fix everything especially because they so often play out through their full backs and it's easier to double up on those two now
I wish I had a better sense of how much the better look was the bad opponent. Of course, San Diego is worse and they won, Utah was worse…etc.
I think we might need to see how the squad looks next week to figure out if this was better or a weird outlier.
SD are better on talent, worse on coaching and morale.
Thorns field players made 6 saves tonight, and we still conceded 2 goals.
Arnold catch the ball ffs
Arnold lol… what are you doin
So. I repeat my earlier question; road point? Okay or nokay? Are we excited because Lowdon grabbed the away result, or depressed because this still looks like a formless Gale mass outside a nice buildup or two?
We don't know how much of the game plan wasn't Gale's, in fairness.
That was my immediate thought; did Ken set this up? The endless minutes for Sinc is very Ken.
The shitty part. That much we know.
I'm seldom unhappy with a road point, even against a poor team. That late concession, though...
Broader indications? Nah...team still has all the focus of a toddler slamming Red Bulls.
The more I think about it the more the Emslee goal irritates me. “Focus” is exactly the issue. Late lead on the road? Play keepaway, everyone has their heads on a swivel, be disciplined when attacked.
Instead the club continued to turn over and behaved like squirrels in traffic when attacked.
I’ll be tracking the buildups when I rewatch this one, too. Seemed like the Thorns got lots of half-chances…but did they create them (on the Weaver goal? Yes, absolutely!) or were they gifted by a really poor opponent?
I’d like to believe this was a step forward just because they scored without Smith and got a point. But I can’t shake the “toddlers on Red Bulls” impression.
Exactly! Remember when the Thorns were one of the best teams in all of WoSo ON THE BACK OF BRILLIANT, DISCIPLINED DEFENSE? I miss that SO much.
One factor, imo, behind the descent to the current terrible state of our defense is the fall of Emily Menges. Even with her youthful blur-like pace eroded by time, she was a superb defender and tended to be the organizer back there. You'd expect at least that level of organizational prowess from 'Brunn...but we don't see it for some reason. This is the real negative impact of that stupid affair with Wilkinson...much more so than the loss of the latter. Menges lost the trust of her teammates and could no longer be that brilliant field marshal for them.
Working from memory here, but I recall that a lot of the Thorns' chances came from ACFC derps...unforced errors by the opposing side, basically. We only occasionally created the chances with slick attacking play. Only occasionally forced a derp with coordinated high pressure (instead we have anyone pressing high seeming to do so as an individual...making relief of that pressure so much easier).
I'm tracking them; long comment above, but tl:dr it's about 50/50 for the first half - half generated by Thorns pressing, half by unforced AC errors. Only a single buildup "from scratch". I'm curious to see what happens after the break since it's then that we actually scored...
If only they had that kind of energy!
That does leave a sour taste…
Meh-kay for me.
Do I have a choice? Do I have to choose?
For me it's both. We staved off execution, but we keep getting dragged down by teams that are behind us on the table. That's never good.
Or maybe it’s literally meaningless; two ignorant armies clash by night. Both tried to lose, both failed? Maybe it’s just a road point and that’s all it is.
Strangers in the night, blowing chances....
Oh, good; Izzy will get a goal for us.
Poor Izzy is like a basketball player who keeps missing slam dunks. Once is forgivable. Twice or more, and you think "Maybe you should work on layups instead?"
An angel gets it’s wings if Becky Sauerbrunn scores
Ah Rocky we miss you.
Jeezus, how many times has one of field players made a save tonight? Is that 5?
I have faith that there’s another concession in this AC shitshow. Not that we really earned it
Signing Arnold was not a smart decision. You need your gk to come up big and she’s had several mistakes already. Two lead to goals. She’s averaging two goals conceded a game.
Her metrics in the WSL were supremely mediocre. She is what she was there; a very average keeper. Her PSxg-GA per 90 is -0.11. Hogan’s is -0.08; they’re virtually identical against the shot from run of play.
That’s what I don’t understand she played for West Ham. A mediocre team that did terribly but her individual stats weren’t good either. Kk saw her in the World Cup with a much smaller sample size and went based off that. But larger sample size is with club and it’s not good metrics.
I think it was a target of opportunity. Hogan struggled early and Arnold 1) had the big splash in the WC and 2) was available.
she's a lot better at distribution but we're not good enough for that to be a priority right now
Her distribution tonight was not impressive. To be fair, better than any keeper since Franch. But what was she climbing over Bright for? Pushing one over the bar except it went straight to the far post instead. Punching an uncontested catchable ball straight into the air? Color me unconvinced.
She makes dumb decisions more than a keeper of her experience should. Headspace issues.
That was a v dumb move by her…I thought for sure that would’ve been a PK
That's exactly right. She's a luxury we don't need and her deficiencies are made more glaring by the deficiencies in front of her.
For sure but one look at her stars should have been enough . KK roster construction is terrible.
Did I mention that we need a better Prez of Soccer/GM?
What she was there, and what she was at the Olympics.
She had a monster PK shootout at the WC and made her rep there. But yeah; not horrible, not great. Good distribution, meh against the shot, makes some poor technical choices.
She LOOKS like she has the tools - size, mobility, distribution. She was kinda like "found money," and to be fair I think Karina -- or somebody below her, more accurately -- has been pretty good at finding and bringing in players on the cheap who might develop here. But, as you've noted, she wasn't exactly an acquisition based on need, and the team was doing fine with Hogan between the posts. So, why???
I was excited about her when we signed her because of her distribution and I’d only seen her play for the Matildas but she’s been very disappointing so far.
Her distribution is better but I honestly feel like Hogan has much better hands...
Ultimately you need your gk to be clutch with saves and she hasn’t done that a lot. Minus one game. Too slow to react and response.
I'd agree. Arnold knows things that Hogan does not yet know, but that's more about experience than it is about quality.
Sinc gonna play 90?
Have you met these gaffers?
All of them? I mean, they're have been so many. And yet they're somehow all the same.
Only because she can't play 120!
Put Weaver back on lol
despite the quality of play tonight, this isn't youth soccer.
Arnold fail
I’ll see your Arnold and raise you a Sauerbrunn.
Yeah bad on the whole backline but Arnold should've held that. Hogan would've, I bet.
Hard to say. Difficult grab. BUT if she wasn’t confident she could hold the safe play is to box it high and back over her bar. That’s the minimal requirement and she failed.
Who’s ballwatching? We’re ALL ballwatching!
Well fuckadoo.
And there's your answer.
And an ugly one it is…
We've gotta watch the backpost better than that.
Sauerbrunn AND Muller both woolgathering as Emslee blows their doors off.
Literally, what WAS that lol
Ballwatching. Simple as that; both back post Thorns had no idea where Emslee was or what she was doing.
You ain't got to be so bad, got to be so cold
This dog eat dog existence sure is getting old
Got to have a jones for this, jones for that
This runnin' with the Joneses, boy, just ain't where it's at, no, no
You gonna come back around
To the sad, sad truth
The Dirty Lowdon
I wonder wonder wonder wonder who
Got you thinking like that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-hKBmTAADo
Way to defend there Sinc
A Sinc dispossession!
Now…can we hold a lead..?
And this time it wasn't even Spaanstra who was left all alone having to mark on the far post!
There's your answer.
Let’s see if they remember how.
And I guess the answer is no.
Last week in SD says no. But we'll see.
My guess is that this AC mob is too big a shitshow. But San Diego is, too, so there’s that.
#LOWDONSTEAM
#ROBSMESS
Scream it!
The Dirty Lowdon
Great assist by Hubly. (Not words I ever really put in the same sentence!)
And dare I say...two hockey assists for Sinclair on the night!
Glad to go ahead. For me, it changes nothing about the need for rebuild.
Of course it doesn't change that we need to rebuild, but it's nice to say something positive about Sinclair on this board for once.
Credit where it’s due; Sinc has made good passes in both goal buildups.
You mean against a team that's not from Mexico, correct? =)
And Moultrie unmarked in the box with the go-ahead goal…
If feel like it’s just so dumb not to play Turner and Weaver together. Unforced error
Weaver off for Turner
How does the group feel if this scoreline holds? Good with the road point? Or bad that outside of that one pretty buildup things still look pretty rec league?
Nothing has changed. Sloppiness combined with low urgency, poor organization, and some godawful passes and first touches. Enough moments of goodness to think it doesn't have to be this way. But ultimately enough derps to just sigh and say it is.
Ready to give Lowdon the helm.
Still feel the same bc the larger problems still remain. And they still don't look good. And AC is not good. Drawing with this AC team does not portend good things in games to come, imo. Sorry to be realistic about things. I'd say the same even if they squeak out a win.
See...even now....still don't feel a turnaround is coming even if we win this. AC is p bad....
And like the Devil in pantomime..!
A road point to hold off a team chasing us for 7th or 8th is good, if you want to make the playoffs.
But we are wasting time on getting started with a rebuild. That is, unless Lowdon is going to replace Ken as our next interim coach.
She was offside, no way that counts?
That was really close, but you really couldn't tell either way, so I guess the call on the field stands.
Replay looked like they were pretty level. Given the nice crisp buildup? I’m good.
She looked more offside than Sinclair just did — but I am happy to have the goal!!
Yeah agree lol....
Well, ok!
Looked offside to me, but I don't know if the VAR might not have had a better angle.
Morgan Weaver Forever ❤️🔥🌹
There you go! See how easy that can be?
Simple runs to space, accurate passes? Easy peasy, right?
Annnnnnd no changes?
Have a feeling AC will play a better 2nd half. They usually don't look this bad. Thorns will need to kick it up a notch.
I’ll take your word for that. AC sure looks pretty brutal at the moment.
Glad to be wrong though
The real estate developers/investors bought a house of cards.
KK Out.
Gale Out.
Norris Out.
Time to start the rebuild by seeing what the young players can do, individually and together. Anything else is a waste of the moment.
Coaching. The youngsters can’t do shit without a coach with a decent grasp of tactics and roster construction.
So that’s the big move first. If that means a new GM? Fine. But a better gaffer is 100% the single biggest need.
True, but this thing ain't gonna magically start up. Best to see what you think you might have among the young'uns and get a head start on the offseason. Definitely new coach needed, but we also need to change out the turkey that gave us this coaching and roster construction mess.
Would love to know how long and how much Gale’s contract is.
Yeah, that's kind of an own-goal isn't it? We'll be paying him after we sack him instead of just finding a way to keep him on as interim for the whole season and make a decision.
My point is that just tossing the rooks and noobs out in the existing goatscrew just risks frustrating them and teaching them bad habits.
So it’s not that we “also need” a better HC. That’s THE need, the key, the #1 fix. Once there’s someone who can reform the existing clusterfuck the right mix of veterans and noobs, stars and squad players can be crafted.
Otherwise you just reinforce defeat.
That makes sense. BUT... I'd point to Orlando. Remember how incredibly bad and scared they, as a young team, looked when they were here at the beginning of 2023? And look at them now. Then again, Seb Hines turned out to be exactly the right guy for the job... which is your point about coaching.
Yep. You hand those kids to Norris or Gale and those that aren't out of the game are undertrained and headed for mediocrity. It's ALL about leadership.
Can you imagine how hard all of this has been on Soph and Sam to go from Hayes to.... this?
This CR is letting a TON of shifty shit go. Luckily! Hubly compounded her 10th minute derp by barging Leroux down from behind inside the six. Sinc with a studs-up “go ahead gimme a red!” challenge…AC is hacking, too, so it’s him, not some sort of prejudice.
Thorns are getting chances they need to at the very least sub in Turner. The only that has shown an ability to score lately
Why they continue to waste whole halves (and sometimes 60-70 mins) before they put in a non-Sinc player is baffling....
For once I’m not screaming about Sinc. She’s been useful, whether it’s because she’s playing the NWSL equivalent of a Mexican side or just having a great game.
Idk but the part that pisses me off the most is Peeps isn’t part of the squad. When this game is screaming for fast forwards. A front three of weaver Turner Payton is just different
Yep yep!
What’s insane is how completely fucking beatable this AC is. They’re bad! Even with our chaotic DIY “attack” we’re getting tons of half-chances! They constantly turn the ball over!
We have GOT to be able to win a rec league slopfest like this!
The problem is that this XI - as most of our XIs all season - is basically a bunch of strangers. Everyone is freelancing. There have been some nice passes…but inevitably the third or fourth pass goes to AC or into touch or turns into a poor shot. Ugh.
I watched Yokohama FC Seagulls v Iga FC Kunoichi a couple days ago. Second division teams, second and fourth on the table, respectively. Good, exciting match that ended in a 3-3 draw.
In terms of understanding between players, tactical cohesion, and so forth, this Thorns team makes both of them look like prime Barcelona in comparison. Both teams were visibly better...massively so...in these areas. And second division in Japan is basically semi-pro.
It's absurd how few decent shots are being generated despite how eager ACFC seems to be to allow them.
Yeah AC is not a good team...embarrassing
Folks, we're bad. Time to face it.
Yeah probably the weakest team they have played for some time and still chasing.
Awful lot of standing/walking around
The Curse of Hello Kitty Night!
Horror challenge by Sinc :/
Sinc breaking ankles
Reckless challenge - lucky to not get a card and even luckier not to literally break Sarah Gordin’s ankle there
Yeah she's too slow to pull out of any challenges. I've seen her do that multiple times this season...
She could at least not go in studs up. Point your toe, c’mon. Don’t be a hoser, eh?
Hey, she's playing old time hockey! Toe Blake!
She has arthritis, Chief!
Need some WD-40...
Tweed seems convinced her goat rodeo can play out of the back. Which I encourage! So far the Haracic and the AC backline has been one of our most dangerous attackers.
The thing is…ACFC is kind of a mess. We’re getting turnovers and generating some attack. Even with our own issues, these people are beatable. But can this squad stop its own derping and do that..?
Haracic doing her best to give away the ball. Can ANYONE on these teams pass to a teammate?