when was the last time fleming was unlocked? She has been pedestrian for sometime now, no? Is it possible there was a reason she was on the bench in London? She was as invisible during the Gold cup as she is now.
Could be. Hayes didn't actually have that much luck with her save for one season, and as I've said before I think that's telling for us. Not because we have a coach anywhere as good as Hayes, but because at our best we've got some world-class players out there around Fleming who would start for Chelsea and because Fleming appears to be running into the same kind of numbers game that she did at Chelsea. What really alarms me, besides the fact that she's only getting used 30-45 minutes, is that it doesn't look like most of her teammates are even looking to get her the ball/play through her. I don't think that's intentional; I think it's mostly the pressure of the moment and their comfort with others. That said, I would not have subbed off Fleming last night, certainly not at halftime.
Geez, bunch of haters in this thread! Yes, probably not the ideal starting XI and tactics, but come on! Playing a really good side in strong form, away, and in miserable weather is not a piece of cake. Thorns did not show as bad as it is made sound here. And, first loss after 6 consecutive wins and incredible turn around is not enough to reach a conclusive decision on Gale or team.
I tend to agree. Yes, that lineup selection was an _egregious_ cock-up on RG's part, given how many obvious (like..._utterly_ obvious) reasons there were arguing against it. And yes, some of the teams we beat in the streak were maybe not lower table L1F level tomato cans, but there aren't good. But the differences in quality of play for our side in those matches was very real indeed. I'm still in wait-and-see mode. Managing a football team is more about seasons, than about halves.
But some of us not to breathlessly hurl ourselves 100% in the direction of the latest momentum shift in an instant would be out of character, y'know? ;)
Yeah I agree. Down two starting forwards on the road; adjustments after halftime nearly equalized the match, and that’s after going deep into the bench. A lot to be encouraged by in this second half. Orlando doesn’t look that scary for the rematch in PDX in October, when a win could really matter.
Haha yeah except the Thorns were down Sophia Smith & Morgan Weaver the entire game. Mighta been 2-2 result or better with either of them on the pitch for even one half.
I hope this puts a sopping blanket on speculation about Gale being a permanent coach candidate. He set his team up to fail and everyone knew it long before the opening whistle. Then he piled on, leaving Sinc and Hubly in after the half and putting D'Quila in 15 minutes before Linnehan and Dias. It's as if he was going out of his way to put his least effective players in first and leaving them longest.
This was a six-point game, and with a long break coming next. He treated it like was a Wednesday game against Utah with Kansas City on Saturday. If I'm being generous, I'd call it naive. If I'm being honest, I call it wrong-headed but not surprising. Too much cheerleading, not enough common sense.
Yup, I agree with everything you said for the most part...although I thought Hubs corrected after a rough 15 mins. I'd still like to see Obaze, but I think Hubs and Becky were mostly fine in the 2nd half...though I would say that's probably mostly bc Banda was off lol. Sinc should've never played more than 20 at the end of this game (if we were ahead.)
But yeah, winning against the bottom of the table 4/6 of the wins should be the expectation. Esp bc all of those teams are a bit of a mess...nd even still, I feel like the majority (minutes-wise) of those games have looked pretty meh, or poor.
Orlando, what, 9 points ahead of us now? Was a really poor gameplan. Naive is what I called it also....but you're right, it was just plain stupid. As soon as I saw that XI I knew we were cooked...and yet, if he would've just made the most obviously basic of easy decisions, we could've won the game. A frustrating drop that is very much on him.
Still looking forward to hopefully having a coach with experience come in and do more with this roster.
Yeah, the only saving grace is that Orlando has played 7/11 at home, so at some point but that match might have knocked the Thorns out of competition for the Shield. We don't really have the depth to run everyone off the field once the nats leave like we did in the Parsons era.
def not starting material, good sub against mid table or below teams when we have a lead. would not trust her against top table teams or in games we must win.
As I mention downthread, that starting 11 could hardly have been more wrong. Perhaps our _least_ pacey, (and least defensively capable up front) lineup in a match that screamed for recovery speed and the ability to press high. How did he not see the problems with that 11? How was it not obvious that Payne and Linnehan should have been part of it?
I don't think Hubly had a bad match, and I understand rewarding her for her improvements (particularly in focus)...but I think it's clear that a fit Obaze is preferable.
I know I cheerlead for her too much, but did anyone else notice the big improvement in offensive threat when Hina moved up a bit and started actively playmaking towards the end? Yes, the double pivot with her and Sam has been working well, but that doesn't mean that Hina as at least a _situational_ attacking central mid isn't a very deadly idea.
Hina and Liv (or Fleming if she ever shows up) should be like double pivot 8/10s, with Hina more 8 and Liv more 10. Hina has been great defensively and as a deep-lying playmaker but we’re wasting bit of her creativity.
Def encouraging...though if we get another interim anchored to this team I will be incredibly frustrated given the talent we have and the underperformance I continue to see, some with individuals and just overall, collectively. Better than Norris, but the bar was so low.
Wonder if Soph would have played had there not been a window coming up. Anyway a good second half effort but was lost in the fist half with that gamble of a lineup.
Well, that's somewhat frustrating given Sinc and Izzy both missed gotta-score-em chances in the second half. I do think the second half control was more a function of game state + no Banda, but no question that Gale got the lineup and formation wrong, putting the defense under unnecessary pressure. Reasonably pleased with how Becky and Hubly defended most of the match, all things considered.
Linnehan remains legit and I think Payne's upside really makes her a must-start most weeks. I wish we weren't headed into the international break cause that was an encouraging second half and I'd like to have the bad taste washed away sooner than later.
Kind of a silly loss. Our coach simply didn't bother to take the other team into consideration when making his lineup. He just did what he always does. The man's a caretaker who got a little lucky.
What I will give him is that, as with Norris, players love him, the locker room is strong. Obviously that’s not everything, and it feels a little silly that standards are almost so low as to be “hey, he’s not actively abusing the players, he’s a keeper!”, but especially in the interest of retaining the solid lineup (especially Smith), I’ll tolerate a whole lotta mediocrity so long as it’s popular mediocrity. Still, really hoping they find a cool whiz kid to do some intelligent things with this roster instead of just coasting with Gale.
I know this community tends not to love Beckie (for reasons unknown to me as a dual national myself haha), but she's the only one creating things at the minute.
I don't think that's true. The main gripes are that she's a turnover machine...which, she really is. She creates a lot, but coaching decisions tonight mean she hasn't had any outlet with Sinc or Moultrie. She's much better when the players around her are quick also...otherwise she kinda panics and loses the ball. One led directly to an Orlando goal tonight.
I think she should be paired with faster players, agreed. And yes, one turnover started a sequence that led to an Orlando goal, but there were a heck of a lot of other players in between our goal and Orlando's. Anyone could have done anything, and didn't. In fact, the commentators mentioned specifically Coffey passing it right to Marta.
Dias is much quicker, it seems. And she's at least gotten minutes (and a goal!) lately. D'Aquila hasn't even been in the 18 lately...she usually stays home for travel games.
Well, my prediction of Fleming having a breakout game in Orlando was off.
I'm not gonna put much on her on this one, because most of the first half was uncharacteristically bad from most of the team. But.... she's still on the milk carton. Not only is the team not playing through her, it almost looks like they're playing around her. Not to avoid her, but rather they've gotten used to not looking for her. That's hard to undo.
There were three moments, split seconds really, when she had to decide between attack or safety. She picked safety each time without an apparent thought. And then proceeded to turn over two of the three. I am totally underwhelmed. Maybe she will tucker herself out in Paris and do a Lavelle.
If I am Rob Gale, I'm on the phone with Bev Priestman, John Herdman, Emma Hayes, and even Amanda Cromwell to get some ideas about unlocking Fleming.
Massive, massive bust!
when was the last time fleming was unlocked? She has been pedestrian for sometime now, no? Is it possible there was a reason she was on the bench in London? She was as invisible during the Gold cup as she is now.
Could be. Hayes didn't actually have that much luck with her save for one season, and as I've said before I think that's telling for us. Not because we have a coach anywhere as good as Hayes, but because at our best we've got some world-class players out there around Fleming who would start for Chelsea and because Fleming appears to be running into the same kind of numbers game that she did at Chelsea. What really alarms me, besides the fact that she's only getting used 30-45 minutes, is that it doesn't look like most of her teammates are even looking to get her the ball/play through her. I don't think that's intentional; I think it's mostly the pressure of the moment and their comfort with others. That said, I would not have subbed off Fleming last night, certainly not at halftime.
Best to keep moving forward from this match, because Gotham are now just 1 point behind with a match in hand.
Geez, bunch of haters in this thread! Yes, probably not the ideal starting XI and tactics, but come on! Playing a really good side in strong form, away, and in miserable weather is not a piece of cake. Thorns did not show as bad as it is made sound here. And, first loss after 6 consecutive wins and incredible turn around is not enough to reach a conclusive decision on Gale or team.
I tend to agree. Yes, that lineup selection was an _egregious_ cock-up on RG's part, given how many obvious (like..._utterly_ obvious) reasons there were arguing against it. And yes, some of the teams we beat in the streak were maybe not lower table L1F level tomato cans, but there aren't good. But the differences in quality of play for our side in those matches was very real indeed. I'm still in wait-and-see mode. Managing a football team is more about seasons, than about halves.
But some of us not to breathlessly hurl ourselves 100% in the direction of the latest momentum shift in an instant would be out of character, y'know? ;)
did you not watch the first half? that was dire.
Yes, I watched 1H. Yes, it was not pretty. My points still stand.
Both are true. It was dire, but it was not a game I thought we'd win.
Yeah I agree. Down two starting forwards on the road; adjustments after halftime nearly equalized the match, and that’s after going deep into the bench. A lot to be encouraged by in this second half. Orlando doesn’t look that scary for the rematch in PDX in October, when a win could really matter.
that's laughable. the adjustment that allowed to not look bad was Banda going down with an injury or would have been long game.
I have no idea why we rolled out Reyes out against Banda when Payne completely destroyed Rodman like two weeks ago.
Haha yeah except the Thorns were down Sophia Smith & Morgan Weaver the entire game. Mighta been 2-2 result or better with either of them on the pitch for even one half.
I hope this puts a sopping blanket on speculation about Gale being a permanent coach candidate. He set his team up to fail and everyone knew it long before the opening whistle. Then he piled on, leaving Sinc and Hubly in after the half and putting D'Quila in 15 minutes before Linnehan and Dias. It's as if he was going out of his way to put his least effective players in first and leaving them longest.
This was a six-point game, and with a long break coming next. He treated it like was a Wednesday game against Utah with Kansas City on Saturday. If I'm being generous, I'd call it naive. If I'm being honest, I call it wrong-headed but not surprising. Too much cheerleading, not enough common sense.
Linnehan was on at half time.
Yup, I agree with everything you said for the most part...although I thought Hubs corrected after a rough 15 mins. I'd still like to see Obaze, but I think Hubs and Becky were mostly fine in the 2nd half...though I would say that's probably mostly bc Banda was off lol. Sinc should've never played more than 20 at the end of this game (if we were ahead.)
But yeah, winning against the bottom of the table 4/6 of the wins should be the expectation. Esp bc all of those teams are a bit of a mess...nd even still, I feel like the majority (minutes-wise) of those games have looked pretty meh, or poor.
Orlando, what, 9 points ahead of us now? Was a really poor gameplan. Naive is what I called it also....but you're right, it was just plain stupid. As soon as I saw that XI I knew we were cooked...and yet, if he would've just made the most obviously basic of easy decisions, we could've won the game. A frustrating drop that is very much on him.
Still looking forward to hopefully having a coach with experience come in and do more with this roster.
Yeah, the only saving grace is that Orlando has played 7/11 at home, so at some point but that match might have knocked the Thorns out of competition for the Shield. We don't really have the depth to run everyone off the field once the nats leave like we did in the Parsons era.
Hubly was mostly fine and she’s improved or returned to form enough to earn some starts and trust. Reyes too. This just want the match for them.
def not starting material, good sub against mid table or below teams when we have a lead. would not trust her against top table teams or in games we must win.
As I mention downthread, that starting 11 could hardly have been more wrong. Perhaps our _least_ pacey, (and least defensively capable up front) lineup in a match that screamed for recovery speed and the ability to press high. How did he not see the problems with that 11? How was it not obvious that Payne and Linnehan should have been part of it?
I don't think Hubly had a bad match, and I understand rewarding her for her improvements (particularly in focus)...but I think it's clear that a fit Obaze is preferable.
I know I cheerlead for her too much, but did anyone else notice the big improvement in offensive threat when Hina moved up a bit and started actively playmaking towards the end? Yes, the double pivot with her and Sam has been working well, but that doesn't mean that Hina as at least a _situational_ attacking central mid isn't a very deadly idea.
Hina and Liv (or Fleming if she ever shows up) should be like double pivot 8/10s, with Hina more 8 and Liv more 10. Hina has been great defensively and as a deep-lying playmaker but we’re wasting bit of her creativity.
And you know what's weird? The team almost pulled out the draw in spite of him, and the conditions. Which is perversely encouraging.
Def encouraging...though if we get another interim anchored to this team I will be incredibly frustrated given the talent we have and the underperformance I continue to see, some with individuals and just overall, collectively. Better than Norris, but the bar was so low.
Soph shrug spotted.
https://twitter.com/WomensGameMIB/status/1794159643352297968
Wonder if Soph would have played had there not been a window coming up. Anyway a good second half effort but was lost in the fist half with that gamble of a lineup.
Well, that's somewhat frustrating given Sinc and Izzy both missed gotta-score-em chances in the second half. I do think the second half control was more a function of game state + no Banda, but no question that Gale got the lineup and formation wrong, putting the defense under unnecessary pressure. Reasonably pleased with how Becky and Hubly defended most of the match, all things considered.
Linnehan remains legit and I think Payne's upside really makes her a must-start most weeks. I wish we weren't headed into the international break cause that was an encouraging second half and I'd like to have the bad taste washed away sooner than later.
on Izzy's pretty sure the defender got their foot in there at last sec.
Kind of a silly loss. Our coach simply didn't bother to take the other team into consideration when making his lineup. He just did what he always does. The man's a caretaker who got a little lucky.
And not taking the weather conditions into account either. Baffling.
What I will give him is that, as with Norris, players love him, the locker room is strong. Obviously that’s not everything, and it feels a little silly that standards are almost so low as to be “hey, he’s not actively abusing the players, he’s a keeper!”, but especially in the interest of retaining the solid lineup (especially Smith), I’ll tolerate a whole lotta mediocrity so long as it’s popular mediocrity. Still, really hoping they find a cool whiz kid to do some intelligent things with this roster instead of just coasting with Gale.
That one was on Gale, that lineup and sub pattern was not good.
Goalie was definitely out of the box on that punt
All 2,000 Orlando fans are on their feet to see this one out...
Shameful
Payne has the kind of speed we need!
Should have started and stuck her on Banda
I wish she coulda woulda started. Reyes wasn't bad mind you.
That Vytas offensive board deserved to be rewarded by the Soccer Gods. It got me out of my seat.
I screamed too lol!
Kelli! Composure! You're chasing a game!
What a concept- putting forwards on the field!
Man, with Soph we could've beaten this team.
Even if they don't get a point, this has been encouraging. They would have totally capitulated last year.
Yeah...last year we lost 3-1 there WITH Soph.
Exactly!
Maybe even with just a better starting lineup. We have legit subs now.
Yeah, totally agree.
Commentator trying her best to jinx Orlando
A point here would be killller I must say!
Orlando could be in trouble with no more subs
Edit: commentator was incorrect
Eee I don't like taking out Muller and Beckie. Those are your two creators wide. But we'll see!
Yes, just when Beckie finally had 2 outlets! I hate non game-state subs. D'Aquila just scored as a 9!
Must think they're tired.
That also makes no sense to me.
Thank god it's still 2-1. Should be 5-1.
that was all moultrie
true. And pick a more legible font and size, would ya?
Izzy does not have a heavy touch. I like it!
She usually does...it's great if she's gotten better.
IZZY, LET'S GO!
What a friggin' assist by Moultrie.
SHUT ME UP D'AQUILA!!!!
Way to break your duck, Izzy!
Fuck yes Liv! What a run!
FWIW, I really do think Hubly is having a good game, apart from the early yellow.
And that time that she ran into a teammate and they both went down, leading to an Orlando jailbreak. But yes.
That was a nice look by D'Aquila. And she's lucky not to have an injury to her right knee there too.
I know this community tends not to love Beckie (for reasons unknown to me as a dual national myself haha), but she's the only one creating things at the minute.
I don't think that's true. The main gripes are that she's a turnover machine...which, she really is. She creates a lot, but coaching decisions tonight mean she hasn't had any outlet with Sinc or Moultrie. She's much better when the players around her are quick also...otherwise she kinda panics and loses the ball. One led directly to an Orlando goal tonight.
I think she should be paired with faster players, agreed. And yes, one turnover started a sequence that led to an Orlando goal, but there were a heck of a lot of other players in between our goal and Orlando's. Anyone could have done anything, and didn't. In fact, the commentators mentioned specifically Coffey passing it right to Marta.
On a positive note, Marta is pure joy to watch.
It's amazing how incredibly effective she still is despite having no wheels.
Welp, it should be 2-2! Just slide it on the ground Izzy, goodness gracious.
Wat. She hasn't even been on a team sheet lately. Why not Dias?
This coach is a weirdo.
Is there really that much of a difference though lol
Dias is much quicker, it seems. And she's at least gotten minutes (and a goal!) lately. D'Aquila hasn't even been in the 18 lately...she usually stays home for travel games.
Izzy! Welcome back. Now silence all your nay-sayers
Yeah shut me up!
Not with that kind of finishing!
Lol--I would love for her to finally do SOMETHING...anything!
She...did not.
That wasn't an easy shot though, and she only got it off because of a great first touch.
Good ball in from Beckie. Too bad no one tried to get to it.
At least we're not Seattle, good lord.
D'Aquila in, not Dias? Huh???
?????????????
Payne, what WAS that
Yay Linnehan--giving it that old Weaver-type fight! She sure ain't giving up!
Orlando denied a corner...we're at the point where I'm thankful for that lol.
lolol Koroleva
Linnehan trying stuff. She's fun.
Well, my prediction of Fleming having a breakout game in Orlando was off.
I'm not gonna put much on her on this one, because most of the first half was uncharacteristically bad from most of the team. But.... she's still on the milk carton. Not only is the team not playing through her, it almost looks like they're playing around her. Not to avoid her, but rather they've gotten used to not looking for her. That's hard to undo.
There were three moments, split seconds really, when she had to decide between attack or safety. She picked safety each time without an apparent thought. And then proceeded to turn over two of the three. I am totally underwhelmed. Maybe she will tucker herself out in Paris and do a Lavelle.
Hina was also uncharacteristically "shy" in the first half. There would be people up higher that were open and she'd pass it backwards. Kinda weird.
I am so very much looking forward to next year when we don't have the weekly Sinc debate
FO will be forced to get Soph a decent F also (hopefully)
You think she's definitely retiring at the end of this year?
🙏
Fair point, I suppose I shouldn't assume.
Amazing sight--seeing Sinc shamble along after a ball
Good GOD Sinc
That is a HUGE miss, especially with no Banda.
Oh, Sincy...
Sinclair is more useful as a defender than half our defenders. Sure am glad for her head.