It doesn't matter if it were 3 or 10, though imo, so counting heads doesn't really matter to me. And that letter was written by one of the veterans. Meghan Nally didn't write that. I would find it very hard not to believe that Becky or Kling wouldn't back any player voicing discomfort (if not concerned themselves) and join them in drafti…
It doesn't matter if it were 3 or 10, though imo, so counting heads doesn't really matter to me. And that letter was written by one of the veterans. Meghan Nally didn't write that. I would find it very hard not to believe that Becky or Kling wouldn't back any player voicing discomfort (if not concerned themselves) and join them in drafting that. Becky especially recognizes her responsibility to stand up for the players in the league with the least voice. She was the president of the NWSLPA.
And I never said Rhian didn't do the right thing after the fact. She shouldn't have even been hanging around with Menges on her off-days in the first place, that was the first and perhaps the worst of her missteps. And it was enough to lose her job over, regardless of it she reported it (which WAS the right thing to do.) There was no outcome after those exchanged texts that would've been appropriate anywhere, in any functioning business, than her inevitably leaving. In the letter, it also mentions that Menges had no intention of keeping things professional, even after the fact.
"For example, in our meetings with LeBlanc and Davis we were led to believe that there was no relationship to speak of and that any further contact between the parties would be entirely professional. However, based on subsequent conversations with the player involved that does not appear to be true."
Add a GM (and Heather Davis) that was trying to just go "Shhhhhhh" and I would've been SUPER uncomfortable and wouldn't have wanted that to continue either, especially while still reeling from the other club drama they were still in the middle of. I can't imagine that many players in the entire league would be indifferent to it either. Just like, this isn't a hard or complicated one here. It's just not ok! Nobody should go to jail or be banned from soccer for life or anything, but it was never gonna work in Portland after that. Especially if you consider the environment of the Thorns club/team at that time (and for years prior) and what those players had been going through. I'm not gonna read into who is still IG friends after the drama because I don't think that's always indicative of true feelings on this situation. Menges may not even know who signed onto that letter. I've stayed "friends" on IG with people for years beyond when our friendship ended because it's simply MORE drama to unfollow someone than to just...not be bothered. I'm also guessing they don't have any actual ill-will towards her or Rhian. Our STF buddy Jacob was friends with Menges (and Rocky) before any of this, so his inclusion is kinda here-nor-there.
I thought the "we're concerned about our teammate" part was weird, but ultimately doesn't distract from the very real other issues they raise. And ultimately, none of them should've even had to go through all of this drama in the first place. Or had to have multiple conversations. It's just messy and not well-dealt with, and gets worse when the FO became involved. KK should've left as well, and I kinda still can't believe she's still around after that and because she's also inept at her job. (And I know the players don't like her either.) What outcome did Menges want here? For Rhian to stay? I'm not even gonna touch the retaliation part, because this likely goes deeper than we all publicly know...but like....MESS. KK saying that actually wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't find her very professional in general, and her public actions we know of here don't help her case. Bhathals should've cleaned house. I hope they still do. This is not how good business are ran, and it makes me unsurprised by Menges' nonchalance about MP's behavior as well. Casey Stoney (and literally everyone else speaking out against these player-coach relationships) are absolutely right and they should continue to say so loudly.
Regardless, it's kinda simple. Coach reciprocates feelings with player (that obv remained bc they're still together); coach has to go. If that happened immediately, the fallout drama with Menges and her teammates would've been dampened, or maybe even prevented. Players shouldn't have even had to get involved. KK/FO should've protected them in the first place, and they should've never had to go to the league.
I too don't think it matters whether it was 3 or 10 either.
I also totally agree with you that players and coaches should not be socializing 1-to-1, going to events together, etc. But... that can also be a gray line rather than a red one. I'd like to think it's OK for a coach and player to have a cup of coffee or lunch together to talk shop, so long as each pays their own way (which, I believe the players do have a per diem), no booze, and it's truly public space. So, I'm with you!
Also with you as to the problem of KK's veracity. You and I both know, from this off-season alone, there's plenty of reason to question her veracity.
All I mean to say is that that letter wasn't written by "the players," which is what you said.
It was written and signed by "a group of concerned players," quoting from the letter.
Which is to say, the locker room was split, not unified. And that's part of why RW resigned. She learned quickly that she could not rebuild trust with the whole; there was a group of players that had no trust, and so the only right thing was for her to resign.
The fact that the letter was written and signed by "a group of concerned players" also shows that they weren't acting collectively -- this wasn't a grievance procedure under the CBA (and, BTW, Menges had been involved in the NWSLPA leadership too, though I think only as a Treasurer).
This "group of concerned players" speaking on Menges's behalf was kind of in a weird place. They weren't presenting a formal grievance on behalf of the player. Usually, with formal grievances, a union won't proceed on an aggrieved employee's behalf unless the aggrieved party wants to proceed; they'll try to resolve it informally and internally first. I think that's what they tried to do, going the HR-type route, with the meeting with KK and Davis.
When they were told that it had already been reported and investigated formally, they didn't trust it and they then moved to other issues. And they went directly to the league when they didn't get the answer they thought was appropriate -- not because I think they were trying to get their way, but because I think they believe the league had made a mistake.
And... I threw Betfort out there because it's pretty clear from her comments on IG that either she didn't sign the letter or if she did she and EM have a fine relationship.
She said: "Pretty sure you were supposed to send me these and you copied my dream to see whales so. Pretty salty about it all rn"
There's nothing about Betfort's comment that sounds like a fig leaf or just being a IG friend.
Anyway... it is striking to me that both Stoney and Hayes recognize that the right approach is non-fraternization.
It doesn't matter if it were 3 or 10, though imo, so counting heads doesn't really matter to me. And that letter was written by one of the veterans. Meghan Nally didn't write that. I would find it very hard not to believe that Becky or Kling wouldn't back any player voicing discomfort (if not concerned themselves) and join them in drafting that. Becky especially recognizes her responsibility to stand up for the players in the league with the least voice. She was the president of the NWSLPA.
And I never said Rhian didn't do the right thing after the fact. She shouldn't have even been hanging around with Menges on her off-days in the first place, that was the first and perhaps the worst of her missteps. And it was enough to lose her job over, regardless of it she reported it (which WAS the right thing to do.) There was no outcome after those exchanged texts that would've been appropriate anywhere, in any functioning business, than her inevitably leaving. In the letter, it also mentions that Menges had no intention of keeping things professional, even after the fact.
"For example, in our meetings with LeBlanc and Davis we were led to believe that there was no relationship to speak of and that any further contact between the parties would be entirely professional. However, based on subsequent conversations with the player involved that does not appear to be true."
Add a GM (and Heather Davis) that was trying to just go "Shhhhhhh" and I would've been SUPER uncomfortable and wouldn't have wanted that to continue either, especially while still reeling from the other club drama they were still in the middle of. I can't imagine that many players in the entire league would be indifferent to it either. Just like, this isn't a hard or complicated one here. It's just not ok! Nobody should go to jail or be banned from soccer for life or anything, but it was never gonna work in Portland after that. Especially if you consider the environment of the Thorns club/team at that time (and for years prior) and what those players had been going through. I'm not gonna read into who is still IG friends after the drama because I don't think that's always indicative of true feelings on this situation. Menges may not even know who signed onto that letter. I've stayed "friends" on IG with people for years beyond when our friendship ended because it's simply MORE drama to unfollow someone than to just...not be bothered. I'm also guessing they don't have any actual ill-will towards her or Rhian. Our STF buddy Jacob was friends with Menges (and Rocky) before any of this, so his inclusion is kinda here-nor-there.
I thought the "we're concerned about our teammate" part was weird, but ultimately doesn't distract from the very real other issues they raise. And ultimately, none of them should've even had to go through all of this drama in the first place. Or had to have multiple conversations. It's just messy and not well-dealt with, and gets worse when the FO became involved. KK should've left as well, and I kinda still can't believe she's still around after that and because she's also inept at her job. (And I know the players don't like her either.) What outcome did Menges want here? For Rhian to stay? I'm not even gonna touch the retaliation part, because this likely goes deeper than we all publicly know...but like....MESS. KK saying that actually wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't find her very professional in general, and her public actions we know of here don't help her case. Bhathals should've cleaned house. I hope they still do. This is not how good business are ran, and it makes me unsurprised by Menges' nonchalance about MP's behavior as well. Casey Stoney (and literally everyone else speaking out against these player-coach relationships) are absolutely right and they should continue to say so loudly.
Regardless, it's kinda simple. Coach reciprocates feelings with player (that obv remained bc they're still together); coach has to go. If that happened immediately, the fallout drama with Menges and her teammates would've been dampened, or maybe even prevented. Players shouldn't have even had to get involved. KK/FO should've protected them in the first place, and they should've never had to go to the league.
I too don't think it matters whether it was 3 or 10 either.
I also totally agree with you that players and coaches should not be socializing 1-to-1, going to events together, etc. But... that can also be a gray line rather than a red one. I'd like to think it's OK for a coach and player to have a cup of coffee or lunch together to talk shop, so long as each pays their own way (which, I believe the players do have a per diem), no booze, and it's truly public space. So, I'm with you!
Also with you as to the problem of KK's veracity. You and I both know, from this off-season alone, there's plenty of reason to question her veracity.
All I mean to say is that that letter wasn't written by "the players," which is what you said.
It was written and signed by "a group of concerned players," quoting from the letter.
Which is to say, the locker room was split, not unified. And that's part of why RW resigned. She learned quickly that she could not rebuild trust with the whole; there was a group of players that had no trust, and so the only right thing was for her to resign.
The fact that the letter was written and signed by "a group of concerned players" also shows that they weren't acting collectively -- this wasn't a grievance procedure under the CBA (and, BTW, Menges had been involved in the NWSLPA leadership too, though I think only as a Treasurer).
This "group of concerned players" speaking on Menges's behalf was kind of in a weird place. They weren't presenting a formal grievance on behalf of the player. Usually, with formal grievances, a union won't proceed on an aggrieved employee's behalf unless the aggrieved party wants to proceed; they'll try to resolve it informally and internally first. I think that's what they tried to do, going the HR-type route, with the meeting with KK and Davis.
When they were told that it had already been reported and investigated formally, they didn't trust it and they then moved to other issues. And they went directly to the league when they didn't get the answer they thought was appropriate -- not because I think they were trying to get their way, but because I think they believe the league had made a mistake.
And... I threw Betfort out there because it's pretty clear from her comments on IG that either she didn't sign the letter or if she did she and EM have a fine relationship.
She said: "Pretty sure you were supposed to send me these and you copied my dream to see whales so. Pretty salty about it all rn"
There's nothing about Betfort's comment that sounds like a fig leaf or just being a IG friend.
Anyway... it is striking to me that both Stoney and Hayes recognize that the right approach is non-fraternization.