Hey all, we will be covering the new CBA from a Portland Thorns perspective. Many outlets covered it already, so STF will do it with perspective of Thorns players, coaches, and staff. I'll be at training next week as well.
In light of the draft ending, I'd be particularly interested in how they plan to tackle college recruiting, what sort of importance they place on attracting the top college players, and what existing networks are already set up (academy plans, incentives etc).
(In other words, the player empowerment stuff is great and should be reported on, but I'd like to read something substantive on how the new CBA impacts soccer ops)
Given there no longer being a college draft, you might also ask ownership/management what are the implications, particularly costs, of scouting and recruiting collegiate players to want to sign with the Thorns. I wouldn't expect a change in the scouting. But I'm wondering whether more time and money would need to be spent on recruiting. Does Karina LeBlanc go out wining and dining potential college grads? Are potential recruits flown into Portland and given tours of the city? Would they have meetings with the Riveters?
Can we cloud seed in Seattle and Bay Area to make it rain there instead of here when they visit? Ideal if they are making multiple visits. Come on, Bhathals, open your checkbook!!1!
Contacts are great, but great contacts are better! Lol, nice to have contacts, but if those contacts aren't the top schools then they should be making an effort to try to get those asap. Unfortunately Mark Krikorian (GM at Spirit and former FSU coach) likely has vast contacts at FSU (the best college program in the country, by far)...but would be nice if she did also since I know she at least does at UF (which isn't really a known soccer school.) But yeah, I'm curious if she has FSU contacts....Her Penn State contacts should help also....which is still a top 10 program in the country.
This isn't disagreeing with anything you mentioned, but I found it interesting (and somewhat surprising) that FSU really hasn't had an excess of NWSL players relative to the other top programs. Really just Nighswonger and Madril --and Howell, if you count her as a success story-- over the last decade. Compared to Stanford, UCLA, UNC, Santa Clara, and Virginia, their alumni haven't had a TON of pro success.
But yes, I hope the Thorns do put some real work into college scouting and the Florida market is certainly an important place to have contacts. I don't think it's a good way to find your best players, but it's certainly still an important way to fill out the depth and maybe get lucky on a big hit.
I think a lot of that is because FSU is probably the most international-based team in college ball. They recruit really well overseas. So, upon graduation players don't even declare and leave to go back home, or closer to home (ie Echegini and Brown, ect..), or, by virtue of being internationals they get picked up by Euro clubs out of college. Also, their domestic players are good enough to get picked up by Euro teams as well, so the best don't even declare. I feel like it has been the exception and not the rule that so few stay to brave the draft because they're generally top players and no one wants to go play on the last place teams bc of the draft.
Kuikka was an FSU product that never declared and went back to Europe, but Parsons kept an eye on her to bring her back after they could make a deal with a Euro team. Madril also went to Sweden first, but her situation was unique bc she also declared.
Can you ask them if they are gonna plant Sarah Lowden in Florida to use her connects to snag all of the best FSU players bc it's by far the best college program in the country and I'd like about 8 of their players lol (and I know she came from north Florida at some point!)
My primary takeaway is that whatever abstract "young/athletic/high potential vision" concept that that the FO has been going on about since the Bhathals took over is being followed pretty much to a tee. Non-keeper acquisitions since January: Fleming (26), Obaze (21), Müller (23), Payne (23), Spaanstra (24), Turner (21). They still need more proven talent in the offseason if they want to really challenge next season, but this is pretty much the dictionary definition of a soft rebuild. These adds have me feeling a whole lot better, especially since they got a real talent for Janine, who was likely out the door for free.
For those unfamiliar with Turner: She's pretty much like if Morgan Weaver was slightly more of a goal scorer and slightly less of a creator (WSU Weaver, in other words). A wide(ish) forward who can play centrally and on the wing, good in the air, very athletic with NT pedigree who had really started to play well with Louisville. She's played mostly as a lone striker for Louisville (not really where she's best imo), so it'll be interesting to see if the Thorns play her on the right as a direct Beckie replacement.
Shout out to Janine for coming back so strong after an ACL tear. That's a lot of hard work and dedication that no one ever sees. Also thought she really improved her defense and scoring during her time here. Workrate was outstanding. She was a great vocal leader and a lead-by-example teammate. Always enjoy watching players with that much fire and passion for the game. Best of luck to her in her new digs.
Thanks Janine! Thanks for the energy you brought to the team even after a horrible injury, the quick dashes up the right to get the ball into the box, the leadership on and off the field. I'll always remember your brace against KC that got us back in the game that day, especially the late banger. Best of luck in Louisville and, more importantly, your marriage.
Really like Janine and sorry to see her go; her recovery from devastating injury seems about 90% and I think by next year she'll be very productive. Hope Loovull finds a proper role for her.
Only Raylan I know is Givens, but this graf has me feeling a little tingly.
"Turner's exceptional aerial duel win rate of 60.5% which puts her in the top 91% shows that she's a brilliant target. With an astute ability to convert those headers into both goals and assists."
Yes, enough goals to finish somewhere between 10th and 6th place in the league until the end of time. This is the most objectively "we want to be no worse and no better than perfectly average" roster build I've ever seen.
I always said I wanted to be proven wrong and in this case, I'm happy to do so! Still remains to be seen if she can swing some bigger names, but the depth building with Turner and Spaanstra has been great! Would love to shed some of the Dias/D'Aquila/McKenzie forward group (I'd get rid of all honestly bc I think Turner would be a better backup 9 immediately over the other 2), for an int'l starter and then I will be very happy with our F group. Still think we need one more top player to pair with Soph who can make a difference now while the babies marinate...
There's a chance we will see an improvement in her play now that Priestman is suspended. Recent interviews from Canadian players seems to suggest Priestman was more negative than positive when it came to feedback and some players were pretty unhappy. Carle is quoted as saying she "never wants to feel the way I felt for the past 3 years ever again.".
I’m kinda liking the move. Turner has been producing as a rook (4 goals 2 assists over about 700 minutes/16 games) and Beckie hasn’t seemed to find her top gear here.
Makes the team faster and younger, and between Smith up top, Coffey in midfield, and Sauerbrunn in back there’s enough grownups in the room.
As always, we’ll see if the sum of the parts is better than the individuals, which is always the crux of any team biscuit…
And Turner is 5'9" or 5'10" and good in the air. All of the goals she's scored this year have been really good/varied goals, too, if you go back and watch 'em. I'm pumped to have both Spaanstra and Turner. Both have USWNT potential and have played for the youth teams in the past and it's cool to get them for peanuts. Turner was more productive than Janine in less minutes (and is only 21), so I'll take it...
Spaanstra…I think it’s hard to know what she’s going to do. Huge rep out of college then a wasted rookie/sophomore year with KC, finally sold for pennies on the dollar. Can she hit the “reset” button here? Hope so!
Oh man, this is a lot more than just eliminating the draft! The PA absolutely crushed this!
- No more trades unless the player signs off (so, probably no more trades)
- No expansion draft
- Total Free Agency
- Salary cap rising to 3.1 Million next season and 5.1 Million by 2030 (still probably gonna be too small, but the potential for added cap based on league revenue kinda fixes that issue)
- Fully guaranteed contracts
This is very much the NWSL going the anti-MLS route, which is MASSIVE and will almost certainly help the league attract and retain better players. Getting a new CBA done now is also unusually smart on the league's part because it goes past (expires in 2030) the new media rights deal (expires 2028). They're essentially betting on the league and saying "we'll lose some money now, but we'll make it up on the backend of the CBA."
That said…what is good for the players is not always the same as what’s good for the fans.
Removing the “leveling” elements like drafts and trades risks separating the league into haves and have-nots.
This isn’t gloom and doom; it’s pretty inevitable. But the cap needs to be enforced, and the league hasn’t been good on that front. And the low-end owners need to be pressured to up their investments and, if unwilling, pressured to sell.
The challenge for the league is the competition for the sports entertainment dollar. This isn’t Europe or South America, where soccer is 1) a long-standing cross-generational tradition that helps bottom-dwelling clubs hang on, and 2) the single biggest sport on offer. A Reading or Lille can survive by selling their best players and getting local fans to show up to watch them finish tenth for the eighth season in a row. Houston? Kansas City? No; neither the tradition nor the monopoly is there. If the clubs become hopeless tomato cans their “fans” will find something more fun to do.
So. Again; happy for the players, but keeping a close eye on the league to see how well they proceed from here.
Well I think you know most of my thoughts on this, but I don't really believe trades and the draft really have any impact at all --very little at best-- on leveling the playing field. Haves and have nots already exist and would have continued to exist whether this happened or not. No one is building elite teams from the draft or via forced trades, they're doing it through spending money and making their club a desirable place for players to come from abroad or via free agency. The era of acquiring Sophia Smiths and Trinity Rodmans via the draft was already over. Hell, even in 2020 Soph maneuvered to make sure she was picked by Portland and not someone else.
The biggest issue BY FAR is already and will continue to be, as you note, proper enforcement of its cap rules (which also need to be made more clear) by the league, and ideally transparency with the fans in the form of salary and spending sheets. But that would have been the case under the old CBA.
And, if the Seattle and Gotham cases are any guide, under the old CBA there was sporadic enforcement at best and little or no transparency.
It’s tempting to see the players as the fans’ allies. And to the extent that both groups are opposed to the owners’ thirst for profit, that’s true.
But what’s good for the players doesn’t HAVE to be good for the fans. We need to keep a close eye on the way the owners and the league deal with the players’ gains. They will be tempted to pass anything they can onto the fans’ wallet. As someone who gave up his Timbers ticket after retirement meant that $1,000/yr was no longer affordable? That can be a pretty tough call…
Chief makes a good point - I’m rooting for the players to have great success and for WoSo to grow as a business- but at the same time , that success will likely one day kill what brought me to follow WoSo in the first place: the relatability of the players and accessibility of the games. I dont follow men’s soccer because the players are prima donnas and the sport, from fifa to leagues to media, takes itself too seriously. If and when big money changes the womens game, that’ll be great for the players but not for a fan like me.
Ticket prices went up a lot last year and they're likely to go up more.
Theyre monetizing everything that used to be free, bonus, or at a low cost.
And there's really none of the incredible access and connecting-with-players that used to be available - the open training, the annual member night, the stand together community impact events, etc.
Some of the change is NWSL, some of it is Thorns, some of it is Bhathals and Karina.
I don't want players underpaid or having to sing for their supper, but I definitely miss some things from when I got involved with the Thorns a decade ago.
And, I have to say, we still haven't reached again the kind of fan presence and energy we had at matches back in 2016-2019.
I notice that USLSL is leaning hard in the direction of fan engagement and community engagement, though, as well they should.
For example, before the opening kickoff at last weekend's match in Spokane, the Zephyr were joined on the field by Gonzaga's women's team and some 400 club players from throughout the region. Also, apparently the clubs are trying to build rosters with attention to bringing in at least some players who already have some connection to that market/region.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to kid myself or anyone else that this divide isn't going to open up. It has in every other league around the world. The NWSL was set up with guardrails in place specifically to prevent that. Those are going, so the inevitable will happen. It's good in one sense that the change appears to benefit the players for a change, rather than going directly into the owners' pockets.
But I'm neither a player nor an owner. I'm a fan, and while I'm glad the players' work is going to be rewarded, I'm not excited about the NWSL turning into those other leagues where, as you note, everyone has their hand out to hit us fans in the wallet.
I don’t really need to see the players as the fans allies to support moves that benefits the players. I’m also simply not that concerned about parity in general.
But also, we have no evidence that the salary cap hasn’t been enforced. Literally none. Gotham has a lot of players, but woso salaries are low! It’s very possible —likely, frankly— that they’re under it. They have a lot of good players, but only one or two that are likely on huge salaries. The main issue is clarity, because we can create conspiracies about how they’re not enforcing cap rules when we don’t have evidence that they are.
Yes! Maintaining competition on the field means the cap needs to be audited and enforced, and that the league needs to ensure (through pressure, incentives, whatever) that all teams are at or near the cap.
Eliminating the expansion draft, in my opinion, is the best thing in this news. I've always thought of the expansion draft as a protection racket. One team says to an expansion time, "I'll give you money if you don't take my player so-and-so." It was ridiculous if you believe that consistency in the roster is a feature (makes the team better), not a bug.
Regarding players having a say in where they go, I recall when Tobin Heath was snagged by Louisville in the expansion draft. Tobin never signed with Louisville. I don't know whether there is actual evidence about the reason for her decision, but my thought is that she didn't want to live there. I wouldn't want to live there either. I spent 6 months on a consulting contract south of the Mason-Dixon line. I couldn't wait to get back home to California.
My first thought about eliminating the expansion draft was that they should call it the "Heath Rule." She said, not long ago, that she was extremely upset (I believe the pertinent phrase was "I couldn't stop crying") about having been unprotected (as an allocated NT player) and then being chosen by Louisville. Of course, a certain former owner had all the leverage in the world then, and certainly could and should have held out for better terms than what that expansion draft called for: a limit of two protected NT/allocated players per team, who in this case were going to be Dunn and Horan, unquestionably.
The reasons for her being that upset I would think go even deeper than not wanting to live in/play for Louisville, although in retrospect she couldn't have been more correct in wanting to avoid that franchise: an incompetently vetted scumbag of a first coach coupled w/ the flailing aimlessness of a front office utterly lacking in vision (as we have seen clearly in the past week). Tobin had established deep ties to this city and franchise: after a highly peripatetic beginning to her pro career, she had bought a house here, helped to establish the Thorns Academy, and was an integral part of the squad from the moment she arrived from PSG in 2013 (I was in awe of her from one of her very first Thorns matches: at home vs. either Boston or Sky Blue-who could tell the difference?-she flat out owned the second half of a tense one-goal game, ultimately putting it away w/ a quick smartly taken throw-in to assist Allie Long's match-icing gem of a bent shot). And Tobin's 2013 playoff run was spectacular: scoring just before the half to begin the semis comeback at KC, then nailing a 35-yd. free kick (on an injured foot!) to win the final at Western New York. I think that shot may still be the greatest clutch play in league history. I found Tobin's 2013 playoff form every bit as memorable as any pro playoff run in the state's history: easily up there w/ Soph, Horan, Valeri, Chara, Walton, Drexler, Roy, Lilliard (or Cam Neely and Natalie Williams for that matter). Peregrine could and should have done better by her, and although this is one of their lesser offenses, some of us won't forget.
Heath was a professional player, and those were the conditions professional players worked under at the time. The club had a plan that didn't include her protection; it was a logical plan, and, frankly, should have worked. I think the club didn't anticipate Louisville being idiotic, and there's no reason they should have.
And Heath's subsequent career suggests the club's plan was sound. She played 24 games after the 2020 season. Should they have left Sophia Smith unprotected instead? Weaver?
Expansion drafts suck, like drafts in general.
But I don't see how the 2020 draft sucked worse on the part of the club. They took a chance assuming that Racing was run by practical people and were wrong. That sucked, too, for our and Racing's fans, and Heath.
No-I'm saying when the terms of that expansion draft were being negotiated, Peregrine should have demanded that more than two allocated players got protection (given that this fan base was clearly the primary reason for the league's continued existence). I maintain that they had an enormous amount of leverage and thoroughly squandered it. Things should never have gotten to the point where they chanced Louisville acting like idiots, and yes, I think the club owed her that much. It's entirely possible the club is short at least one star above that logo without her (she was also terrific in the 2017 semi-setting the first goal in motion and assisting on the second).
As to her subsequent history of injuries-who knows? Unless there's some chronic condition we don't know about (and I'll grant Peregrine could have been taking such a thing into consideration), it's also possible she might have had several relatively healthy years had she stayed here.
Yeah, when I read the league's reflection after teams with NWSL representation getting eliminated early in the world cup and taking that as an indicator that the league needed improvement, that was jaw-dropping and the antithesis of MLS. Very exciting to have a domestic league that actually cares about quality and not just lining the owners' pockets!
So do you just punt players to the curb if you need to clear roster space? Do owners just have to pony up and pay out the contract? No trades and transfers locks the current Thorns roster into "not even close to competing for hardware" territory for like the next 3 years. Or do front offices start giving a bunch of 1 year contracts to everyone except stars, so they can be offloaded?
You can still buy out contracts. This just means that the players can't be forcibly *moved* elsewhere via trade. It's really not a tremendous change for most of the players who already have guaranteed deals- My understanding (without seeing the actual text) is that this just removes the semi-guaranteed contract option so that ALL players are entitled to full compensation if they're cut.
The Thorns actually have a TON of flexibility and aren't locked into anything because over half the roster is on contracts that expire or have team/mutual options at the end of the season. In fact, the only players on deals that extend past next season are Müller, Fleming, Arnold, Moultrie, Reyes, Hina, and Turner.
The FO will likely have to work harder to make some trades happen if the best value for the FO is not an option a player is interested in. I would assume most players would rather take a trade than be dropped or not be able to get playing time. But this will give the players more control so they're not shipped cross country at the drop of a hat.
Transfers for cash is indeed how Europe does it, which means there are no trades. It also means that teams with the most money fill their rosters with top talent, while 7 out of 10 spend season after season as the practice teams.
Right, I was using trade/transfer synonymously since I seem to recall there have been player movements with just allocation money still labeled "trades". Probably be much easier now with just cash.
Several people have mentioned "no trades", but IIUC it's actually no trades without player consent. It seems to me that a great many recent trades have involved player consent (or request), so they would be fine under the new CBA.
Ultimately, the owners should only care if their salaries are contained as a percentage of income. A cap accomplishes that point.
Drafts are designed to depress the salary of the incoming players. In current leagues, it distributes to the established players in a capped environment. The NBA, NFL, and NHL pay so much more than the competition that it doesn’t matter. In reality, the players unions in those sports want to depress draft salaries to distribute to existing members.
That isn’t the case with the NWSL where European teams buy the best players if they are willing to move. The other open issue is in the NWSL, they tried allocation money which was supposed to be given to the players. Instead it was used to buy picks for lower salary players.
The draft predates cap, but I’m looking at it from the current landscape
Probably a slighhhht net negative just because Portland's not the most desirable market and more player freedom usually favors the best markets (though maybe less so in the NWSL than other sports), but it's pretty much impossible to tell until we see how it plays out. A lot of it will depend on ownership, but also on more abstract stuff like the facilities, culture, rep, etc etc. It definitely makes good ownership and an appealing fanbase/culture that much more important. Exciting times!
And yes, I think they *really* do need to make the numbers public, but I believe the CBA still prohibits salary being shared without consent. So, still could happen, but not imminently.
Purely on market, probably SD/LA/NY and maybeee the Bay are top and then the rest are all clustered around the same area with Utah/Louisville closer to the bottom. But location desirability also has to do with where the players are from, women's health laws, etc, so it's hard to tell. And, obviously, location is only one piece of the larger puzzle- KC, Washington, Orlando, and maybe Portland/Chicago/NCC are going to be more attractive, all for different reasons.
With some smart moves by the Bhathals, we ought to be able to get Portland to outstrip KC and Washington in that mix. Will really depend on how involved and innovative they want to be. As for Orlando, Chicago, NC, we should continue to outstrip them.
Hinges on growing fans and viewership in non-NWSL markets. Their crazy-quilt of streaming platforms and scarcity of nationwide broadcasts on mainstream networks do not help. Watch closely how the league capitalizes on the Paris gold medal.
People watch the nats for the star power. Does the league have enough stars to do the same?
Speaking of the crazy quilt - I caught a couple of the USL super league games this weekend because they're all available on Peacock. The broadcast quality was not great and I don't know how much the league was paid for the rights, but, damn, to have all the games in one place!
It's almost a certainty that each team is producing its own broadcast, hence variable quality. There's a possibility that USL is paying Peacock, not the reverse. That's pretty common with new leagues - NWSL did it for the first few years.
Yeah that's great to get some $$$ out of it! I assumed we'd just waive her in the offseason for nothing so that's good business for both parties.
Do you know if we're done bringing players in, or do you still expect others before the window closes? Still hoping for a splashier player (whether an attacker or a defender, preferably both), but I also still just think we need at least 1 more solid CB regardless...
TBF she speaks English like an American kid and probably has the language thing down pat. Best wishes to her--I thought Tigres looked like a fast and competent squad.
Oh hell yeah! That's honestly kind of a big deal to me from a process evaluation perspective- Missing on swings is much easier to take when they admit it didn't work and fix it quickly instead of doubling down. I'm guessing they're done bringing in players (?) even so, but this is wise regardless.
(And Alvarado got signed by Tijuana, which is funny because that's the only Thorns opponent she played)
Yeah, agree there. Def means they are at least seeing what we're seeing and not sticking with it for 3 or so years. That they're doing it midseason means they're actually getting something for her...maybe they'll even recoup some money there if they got her for super cheap from Russia. Also not a bad landing spot for Dias. Happy it makes our job of figuring out the F line easier lol. Now: Soph, Weaver, Linnehan, Turner, Spaanstra, Sinc, D'Aquila. Lots of young/rookie types and def still need another splashy attacker there, but depth seems to be shaping up nicely.
Been dying observing Mexican/Tigres soccer twitter with regard to this news. Tigres folks are super about an incoming international....bragging they're winning the league. Rayadas fans are cursing their GM for incompetence and their mediocre reinforcements. Posting pictures of who they perceive to be Dias, but is in fact a different Portuguese player. Posting her goal against Xolos in the Summer Cup as evidence to her talent. Saying she plays up top with Sophia Smith, the best USWNT player and scorer of the winning goal in the final (Swanson; and have they ever even played on the field together?) ...Anointing her their new #9. Basically neither team has any idea who she is or what they're getting lol.
Also, saw that with Emi. Unfortunate she went to such a bad team...but I hope it means she gets more time.
I drove by a massive Sophia Smith Nike add on the side of a building on Burnside around 21st near PP today --not sure how long it's been there even though I live in NW-- and it got me thinking about how little Thorns advertising we see in Portland. It's something Washington and KC in particular have done REALLY well to help drive up their respective attendances significantly in the last few years- I'm not sure if the presence of a strong fanbase makes Thorns ownership/marketing department think it's not important here, but I'd love to see a lot more Thorns marketing on buses/buildings/MAX.
Another giant Xfinity/Smith/Thorns cross promotion on the Banfield inbound between exit 43rd Ave and the Lloyd District exit. Something that I think went up in July. It was the first Thorn ad I had seen. I agree, bus/max ads would be a great idea. I hope it starts to take up more ad space in Portland.
The NWSL Players Association introduced a groundbreaking new Collective Bargaining Agreement that makes the NWSL the first American professional sports league to eliminate its college draft. Among other changes, the CBA also establishes workload management for players, introduces guaranteed contracts, requires player consent for trades and creates free agency for all players. The new CBA, which will be in place through 2030, also establishes a base salary cap that is tied to revenue-sharing from the league’s sponsorship and media rights agreements.
Many outlets covered it, so we will cover the new CBA from a Portland Thorns point of view. I'll be asking players and coaches about it at training next week and there will be a piece on it.
Good to hear. Thank you. Given there no longer being a college draft, you might also ask ownership/management what are the implications, particularly costs, of scouting and recruiting collegiate players to want to sign with the Thorns. I wouldn't expect a change in the scouting. But I'm wondering whether more time and money would need to be spent on recruiting. Does Karina LeBlanc go out wining and dining potential college grads? Are potential recruits flown into Portland and given tours of the city? Would they have meetings with the Riveters?
Curious what the Spaanstra and Turner additions mean for the Dias/Linnehan/Izzy group, especially once Weaver gets back. You could argue that Turner is a straight swap for Beckie, but I think there's a chance she gets some of the backup nine minutes too. If *I* was managing, the depth chart is pretty clear once Weaver returns:
LW: Weaver, Spaanstra
ST: Smith, Izzy, Dias
RW: Turner, Linnehan (swap 'em if you prefer)
That's a nice group! My semi-big concern is that Dias and Sinc will get Izzy and Linnehan's minutes, but this also clears a path to just straight up not retaining Dias this offseason. I'd also be very open to an Izzy loan.
My perspective is they just added two young players to fight for one open spot on the starting line in Turner and Spaanstra. Linnehan deserves a run there as well if she can get healthy.
The other two should be quality depth. I do like the quality of young player they’ve brought in and with Sinclair retiring, they should have serious funds to acquire a star CB.
Also, I mentioned this below and I think I am remembering it right. I could have swore I read or heard that Janine wanted to get closer to her fiancé who has his own business in Florida and this certainly does it (can you imagine a worse commute in the same country). My assumption is this is something she wanted with the extension.
Will be surprised if Morgan can manage to play 90 before the season ends, so if one or both give a like-for-like pairing with her maybe Thorns can play a more familiar/effective lineup the rest of the way in '24.
On the topic, hope we get Weaver-time when play resumes next week. Bring forth the good chaos!
Has anybody seen Weaver training? I am looking forward to the happy chaos Muppet. And very happy with the Spaanstra and Turner acquisitions. Why look abroad when there is such a deep pool of talent here in the US? Both seem to be like Weaver, just a bit below National team level.
I hope we see Turner up top sometimes, paired with Smith on occasion. She’s competition for Linnehan for sure, who has been good but isn’t inked in as a starter. Spaanstra should complement Weaver. They can alternate. Fleming or Hina could play right wing in a pinch too, though I’d rather not. I’ve yet to see Fleming show her quality for club that she has for country, at least consistently. It’s good for her and Liv to fight for minutes. I hope when Sinclair retires that we fill her spot with someone versatile enough to play 9/10. A midfield of Coffey and two of Hina/Fleming/Moultrie should be enough to move the ball through midfield and link up to the attack but we’re not seeing enough of it yet.
It doesn't make sense to me. I have puzzled for years how European soccer is interesting to fans when 7 out of ten teams don't have a snowball's chance in Hades winning a league championship for decades, or never. Players can join any team they want, but especially those teams that have the most money to spend.
I've watched Olypique Lyon Femenine from time to time playing lesser teams in their league. Competitiveness is a joke.
To me the critical part of making this NOT turn the league into D1F (OL, PSG, and eight teams for them to thrash) is a hard cap and the willingness to investigate and enforce it.
Make it a high cap, to attract talent…but unless you want an Emirati plutocrat to turn Houston into ManCity in orange there’s got to be a way to keep some measure of parity without the leveling influence of the draft…
I like it for the players’ sakes. But the players and owners interests are not the same as the fans, and we can’t let ourselves forget that.
Worth noting that fewer and fewer of the elite pro prospects are actually going to college, so this probably will have a much smaller impact on parity than it might appear on first glance. I'd also guess that the remaining top players will pretty evenly distribute themselves around the desirable markets where there's opportunity to play, so it would surprise me if this really widened the gap significantly.
If anything, this will probably help the NWSL retain its top domestic talent.
Again, only if the league doesn't let an owner or small group of owners use their wallets to create OLs or Wolfsburgs or Chelseas. Then the "top talent" will go to those teams, and the rest will be punching bags for those teams.
That'll work in Europe, where team loyalties are generational. But here? No.
It's hard for me to see a world without a salary cap, so that seems extremely unlikely....even if the cap rules are riddled with loopholes. I'd also say that the biggest European issue in woso is not really that the top end spends so much, it's that the bottom end doesn't give a shit.
Because the top end is so much richer. Why bother when Aulas or the Emiratis will always stupid more money? There's only so many soccer-mad plutocrats, and here? Even fewer.
And enforcement is key. If the league lets the plutocrats go wild the way they did with OLR's French mercenaries the cap won't matter. It'll be ugly.
Like I said; clubs like Brighton or Reading draw because people in Brighton and Reading are supporters because their mom or dad and granddad were. Houston? LA? No. There's nothing like that here. If the NWSL splits in Gotham and Orlando and tomato cans? Fan interest will crater.
So if the league is going to a European model - which this is - they'll need stronger guardrails for "financial fair play" than the European leagues that have stood by while ManCity and OL laugh at them...
That's actually not really true though. There are numerous examples -- mostly on the men's side so far-- where the mega-rich/oil barons have bought in to so called smaller clubs and elevated them. That's the entire Manchester City story. Leipizig with the Red Bull group. Newcastle was already a well-supported club, but it happened with them with the Saudis. Kang's trying to do it right now with London City. It's hard to make it work when the team isn't in a major market and doesn't have a built-in fanbase, but it's very possible. Anyhow, there is no salary cap (no, FFP is not even close to an actual America-style cap) in Europe- Until there isn't a hard salary cap here, I kinda doubt we'll have an OL-type situation.
That said, there are always going to the haves and the have nots. Owners that actually try and care in a salary cap league still can do a hell of a lot more than those that don't. That's the case in every single American sport. Markets matter. Coaches matter to a lesser extent. The NWSL will get more stratified as the talent level and investment level gets better, and that's a GOOD thing, not a bad one. The goal shouldn't to achieve MLS-levels of parity.
OG Menges with the match winner. Was it Betfort who initially applied the pressure with the shot?
And poor Jane Campbell. Somebody rescue that woman from the Houston tire fire. She's far too good to go her entire career never playing a meaningful match for club or country.
God do I feel agony for Campbell trapped in what Chief quipped is that Petrostate. She was sharp as a sharpened tack last night--good thing because they would have lost by several instead of the one goal.
Eyes on Patterson, who had a good game despite the miserable team, a big, strong skilled forward with a lot of upside, but stuck there. She nearly won the College Cup final for UNC single-handed, in '22. Dropped in the draft for no observable reason.
Tanaka was the one who created the OG. And yeah- Utah are very much a low-end playoff caliber team for my money once Lacasse gets the Monaghan spot. Still missing a striker, but Sentnor kinda allows Betfort to run around and cause chaos, which is her real strength. I do wonder if they eventually go with a Monaghan-Tanaka-Lacasse front three, but I think they like the energy in the press Betfort brings.
I guess the trade is OK - getting something is usually better than getting nothing. But we aren't exactly filling our positions of greatest need. GK, RW, and third non-scoring attacker are NOT our roster weaknesses. Our cup overfloweth in those spots. How about a CB, and then another CB, and then maybe a LB and a backup 6?
Not to pick on this but rather to make a point because a lot of people talk about a backup 6:
I just don't see getting a specialist there as something that's going to be particularly worthwhile Sam Coffey is going to start every game she's fit for. We had a backup 6 in Taylor Porter, and that's the level you're going to get. Getting an 8 that can play 6 is probably more worthwhile, and I'd argue Hina is that.
I wouldn’t want Hina to start at 6. I agree with you that having a dedicated 6 sub probably doesn’t make much sense, at least at this stage in Coffey’s career where she’s not going to miss many matches. Dual 8s below a 10 could work, but nobody has convinced me they own the 10 role. Liv and Fleming could do it. One of them would be the second 8 on that scenario. I think Liv has shown more upside all around for Thorns but Fleming could make a case for 8 or 10. Trying to shoehorn Sinc in has dragged this out too. A younger version of what she can do, start at 9 and drop deep into 10, would be great but also wasteful right now, unless we went with a two-forward formation. Then we’d be wasting wingers.
This is probably true, but I think there's an argument for bringing in a Dani Colaprico type player with some experience so that we're not relying on other key players to backfill. Kling's fine for the time being though, and Gale pretty much just eliminated the six entirely by going to the 3-4-3 lol.
I think Kling's still got some real utility based on how she's played this year, especially compared to Sinc. She's pretty much the ideal player to keep around a young team--if she doesn't want to retire-- imo: Can still do a job when needed, vocal team leader, isn't going to require a lot of minutes.
Super sub and not a starter, preferably. Good defense for anybody in front of her, dime queen on set pieces, influential leader. But slip past her and the back line is going to have to clean it up, pronto.
Keep the mileage down and her wheels still have something left.
I feel a lot better about this if Beckie requested the trade. We needed better depth or an upgrade on the wing too, especially with uncertainty around Weaver and her continued absence. We definitely need better CBs. I’m happy with Müller and Reyes at fullback but not convinced of our depth and we’ll definitely need replacements for Klingenberg and Sauerbrunn. We really need a backup 6th. Moving Rocky to bring in Fleming hasn’t paid off at all (yet?). The three-way tie with her, Hina and Liv as hybrid 8/10s is a good problem to have, I guess. I don’t really want to have to force Hina out wide, so Linnehan, Turner, and Spaanstra help with that. Fleming can supposedly play on the wing as well. But yeah CB, FB, and DM are the remaining needs. Good thing we have some players likely to retire and surplus stock at forward and GK.
I didn’t mean to imply Fleming or Hina would play forward. More wide attacking midfielder than traditional winger. Neither is a winger. I’m thinking 4-2-3-1 not 4-3-3.
Winger was quite clearly the biggest roster need imo, especially with the uncertainty with Weaver's health. They definitely do need another high level CB (and a backup six), but I think the CB trio they have should suffice until the offseason. They go two deep at each FB position, so I'd say they're pretty set there.
Well, I 'd take Erceg because 34 < 39 and also she can score on a set piece. But for sure Staab would be better - she has a long throw too. I've been high on her since she came into the league.
see kielbasa comment above. brunn was national team captain and still playing a year ago. Erceg? Bruun ahould only leave when ahe is ready or reaches Sinc levels of waiting too long.
Hey all, we will be covering the new CBA from a Portland Thorns perspective. Many outlets covered it already, so STF will do it with perspective of Thorns players, coaches, and staff. I'll be at training next week as well.
More content on the way :)
In light of the draft ending, I'd be particularly interested in how they plan to tackle college recruiting, what sort of importance they place on attracting the top college players, and what existing networks are already set up (academy plans, incentives etc).
(In other words, the player empowerment stuff is great and should be reported on, but I'd like to read something substantive on how the new CBA impacts soccer ops)
Earlier I made a similar request:
Given there no longer being a college draft, you might also ask ownership/management what are the implications, particularly costs, of scouting and recruiting collegiate players to want to sign with the Thorns. I wouldn't expect a change in the scouting. But I'm wondering whether more time and money would need to be spent on recruiting. Does Karina LeBlanc go out wining and dining potential college grads? Are potential recruits flown into Portland and given tours of the city? Would they have meetings with the Riveters?
Yeah I'll see what I can find out. They've been pretty open with me this season and I believe that will continue.
Can we cloud seed in Seattle and Bay Area to make it rain there instead of here when they visit? Ideal if they are making multiple visits. Come on, Bhathals, open your checkbook!!1!
:-D :-D :-D
Sarah's rolodex of contacts will pay huge dividends moving forward :)
I can definitely ask her about her vast connections in the college game and how much it'll help, especially with like FSU.
Contacts are great, but great contacts are better! Lol, nice to have contacts, but if those contacts aren't the top schools then they should be making an effort to try to get those asap. Unfortunately Mark Krikorian (GM at Spirit and former FSU coach) likely has vast contacts at FSU (the best college program in the country, by far)...but would be nice if she did also since I know she at least does at UF (which isn't really a known soccer school.) But yeah, I'm curious if she has FSU contacts....Her Penn State contacts should help also....which is still a top 10 program in the country.
This isn't disagreeing with anything you mentioned, but I found it interesting (and somewhat surprising) that FSU really hasn't had an excess of NWSL players relative to the other top programs. Really just Nighswonger and Madril --and Howell, if you count her as a success story-- over the last decade. Compared to Stanford, UCLA, UNC, Santa Clara, and Virginia, their alumni haven't had a TON of pro success.
But yes, I hope the Thorns do put some real work into college scouting and the Florida market is certainly an important place to have contacts. I don't think it's a good way to find your best players, but it's certainly still an important way to fill out the depth and maybe get lucky on a big hit.
I think a lot of that is because FSU is probably the most international-based team in college ball. They recruit really well overseas. So, upon graduation players don't even declare and leave to go back home, or closer to home (ie Echegini and Brown, ect..), or, by virtue of being internationals they get picked up by Euro clubs out of college. Also, their domestic players are good enough to get picked up by Euro teams as well, so the best don't even declare. I feel like it has been the exception and not the rule that so few stay to brave the draft because they're generally top players and no one wants to go play on the last place teams bc of the draft.
Kuikka was an FSU product that never declared and went back to Europe, but Parsons kept an eye on her to bring her back after they could make a deal with a Euro team. Madril also went to Sweden first, but her situation was unique bc she also declared.
Re: college recruiting...
Can you ask them if they are gonna plant Sarah Lowden in Florida to use her connects to snag all of the best FSU players bc it's by far the best college program in the country and I'd like about 8 of their players lol (and I know she came from north Florida at some point!)
My primary takeaway is that whatever abstract "young/athletic/high potential vision" concept that that the FO has been going on about since the Bhathals took over is being followed pretty much to a tee. Non-keeper acquisitions since January: Fleming (26), Obaze (21), Müller (23), Payne (23), Spaanstra (24), Turner (21). They still need more proven talent in the offseason if they want to really challenge next season, but this is pretty much the dictionary definition of a soft rebuild. These adds have me feeling a whole lot better, especially since they got a real talent for Janine, who was likely out the door for free.
For those unfamiliar with Turner: She's pretty much like if Morgan Weaver was slightly more of a goal scorer and slightly less of a creator (WSU Weaver, in other words). A wide(ish) forward who can play centrally and on the wing, good in the air, very athletic with NT pedigree who had really started to play well with Louisville. She's played mostly as a lone striker for Louisville (not really where she's best imo), so it'll be interesting to see if the Thorns play her on the right as a direct Beckie replacement.
Here's the comp radar chart: https://www.imghippo.com/i/Cn9E61724275986.png
Oh good....this is what I just asked for in the other thread, thanks!
Shout out to Janine for coming back so strong after an ACL tear. That's a lot of hard work and dedication that no one ever sees. Also thought she really improved her defense and scoring during her time here. Workrate was outstanding. She was a great vocal leader and a lead-by-example teammate. Always enjoy watching players with that much fire and passion for the game. Best of luck to her in her new digs.
Thanks Janine! Thanks for the energy you brought to the team even after a horrible injury, the quick dashes up the right to get the ball into the box, the leadership on and off the field. I'll always remember your brace against KC that got us back in the game that day, especially the late banger. Best of luck in Louisville and, more importantly, your marriage.
Really like Janine and sorry to see her go; her recovery from devastating injury seems about 90% and I think by next year she'll be very productive. Hope Loovull finds a proper role for her.
Only Raylan I know is Givens, but this graf has me feeling a little tingly.
"Turner's exceptional aerial duel win rate of 60.5% which puts her in the top 91% shows that she's a brilliant target. With an astute ability to convert those headers into both goals and assists."
Who wouldn't welcome that?
Balcer, Beckie, Borges, Kanu, Flint, DeMelo, Bahr... they should be able to find some goals somewhere, shouldn't they?
Yes, enough goals to finish somewhere between 10th and 6th place in the league until the end of time. This is the most objectively "we want to be no worse and no better than perfectly average" roster build I've ever seen.
Yeah, bringing in Balcer and Beckie is exactly that. Still can't believe they let Turner go for a straight swap...
Dare I say......KK's done some pretty damn good GMing the last few days ;)?
I always said I wanted to be proven wrong and in this case, I'm happy to do so! Still remains to be seen if she can swing some bigger names, but the depth building with Turner and Spaanstra has been great! Would love to shed some of the Dias/D'Aquila/McKenzie forward group (I'd get rid of all honestly bc I think Turner would be a better backup 9 immediately over the other 2), for an int'l starter and then I will be very happy with our F group. Still think we need one more top player to pair with Soph who can make a difference now while the babies marinate...
FINALLY!!! I bet the owners said something to her ….
It looks like we saved some money too, at least in the short term.
It's also a very different looking team as we head into the final 1/3rd of the season. No Beckie, probably Sinclair retiring. Whither Fleming?
I think that’s up to Fleming. And Ken.
For some reason she hasn’t been the player here she is for Canada. Lots of the similar energy, but very dissimilar chemistry.
If she can find that? If Ken can help? She could be a huge impact player.
There's a chance we will see an improvement in her play now that Priestman is suspended. Recent interviews from Canadian players seems to suggest Priestman was more negative than positive when it came to feedback and some players were pretty unhappy. Carle is quoted as saying she "never wants to feel the way I felt for the past 3 years ever again.".
Definitely have the talent and head coach to succeed.
I’m kinda liking the move. Turner has been producing as a rook (4 goals 2 assists over about 700 minutes/16 games) and Beckie hasn’t seemed to find her top gear here.
Makes the team faster and younger, and between Smith up top, Coffey in midfield, and Sauerbrunn in back there’s enough grownups in the room.
As always, we’ll see if the sum of the parts is better than the individuals, which is always the crux of any team biscuit…
And Turner is 5'9" or 5'10" and good in the air. All of the goals she's scored this year have been really good/varied goals, too, if you go back and watch 'em. I'm pumped to have both Spaanstra and Turner. Both have USWNT potential and have played for the youth teams in the past and it's cool to get them for peanuts. Turner was more productive than Janine in less minutes (and is only 21), so I'll take it...
Spaanstra…I think it’s hard to know what she’s going to do. Huge rep out of college then a wasted rookie/sophomore year with KC, finally sold for pennies on the dollar. Can she hit the “reset” button here? Hope so!
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/40945371/nwsl-players-agree-cba-no-draft-expanded-leave
Oh man, this is a lot more than just eliminating the draft! The PA absolutely crushed this!
- No more trades unless the player signs off (so, probably no more trades)
- No expansion draft
- Total Free Agency
- Salary cap rising to 3.1 Million next season and 5.1 Million by 2030 (still probably gonna be too small, but the potential for added cap based on league revenue kinda fixes that issue)
- Fully guaranteed contracts
This is very much the NWSL going the anti-MLS route, which is MASSIVE and will almost certainly help the league attract and retain better players. Getting a new CBA done now is also unusually smart on the league's part because it goes past (expires in 2030) the new media rights deal (expires 2028). They're essentially betting on the league and saying "we'll lose some money now, but we'll make it up on the backend of the CBA."
My thoughts are:
This is great for the players.
That said…what is good for the players is not always the same as what’s good for the fans.
Removing the “leveling” elements like drafts and trades risks separating the league into haves and have-nots.
This isn’t gloom and doom; it’s pretty inevitable. But the cap needs to be enforced, and the league hasn’t been good on that front. And the low-end owners need to be pressured to up their investments and, if unwilling, pressured to sell.
The challenge for the league is the competition for the sports entertainment dollar. This isn’t Europe or South America, where soccer is 1) a long-standing cross-generational tradition that helps bottom-dwelling clubs hang on, and 2) the single biggest sport on offer. A Reading or Lille can survive by selling their best players and getting local fans to show up to watch them finish tenth for the eighth season in a row. Houston? Kansas City? No; neither the tradition nor the monopoly is there. If the clubs become hopeless tomato cans their “fans” will find something more fun to do.
So. Again; happy for the players, but keeping a close eye on the league to see how well they proceed from here.
Well I think you know most of my thoughts on this, but I don't really believe trades and the draft really have any impact at all --very little at best-- on leveling the playing field. Haves and have nots already exist and would have continued to exist whether this happened or not. No one is building elite teams from the draft or via forced trades, they're doing it through spending money and making their club a desirable place for players to come from abroad or via free agency. The era of acquiring Sophia Smiths and Trinity Rodmans via the draft was already over. Hell, even in 2020 Soph maneuvered to make sure she was picked by Portland and not someone else.
The biggest issue BY FAR is already and will continue to be, as you note, proper enforcement of its cap rules (which also need to be made more clear) by the league, and ideally transparency with the fans in the form of salary and spending sheets. But that would have been the case under the old CBA.
And, if the Seattle and Gotham cases are any guide, under the old CBA there was sporadic enforcement at best and little or no transparency.
It’s tempting to see the players as the fans’ allies. And to the extent that both groups are opposed to the owners’ thirst for profit, that’s true.
But what’s good for the players doesn’t HAVE to be good for the fans. We need to keep a close eye on the way the owners and the league deal with the players’ gains. They will be tempted to pass anything they can onto the fans’ wallet. As someone who gave up his Timbers ticket after retirement meant that $1,000/yr was no longer affordable? That can be a pretty tough call…
Chief makes a good point - I’m rooting for the players to have great success and for WoSo to grow as a business- but at the same time , that success will likely one day kill what brought me to follow WoSo in the first place: the relatability of the players and accessibility of the games. I dont follow men’s soccer because the players are prima donnas and the sport, from fifa to leagues to media, takes itself too seriously. If and when big money changes the womens game, that’ll be great for the players but not for a fan like me.
I'm not too worried about this. Women, in general, are much better humans than men. I'm a man, BTW.
Catherine de Medici has entered the chat.
I think that's already happening.
Ticket prices went up a lot last year and they're likely to go up more.
Theyre monetizing everything that used to be free, bonus, or at a low cost.
And there's really none of the incredible access and connecting-with-players that used to be available - the open training, the annual member night, the stand together community impact events, etc.
Some of the change is NWSL, some of it is Thorns, some of it is Bhathals and Karina.
I don't want players underpaid or having to sing for their supper, but I definitely miss some things from when I got involved with the Thorns a decade ago.
And, I have to say, we still haven't reached again the kind of fan presence and energy we had at matches back in 2016-2019.
I notice that USLSL is leaning hard in the direction of fan engagement and community engagement, though, as well they should.
For example, before the opening kickoff at last weekend's match in Spokane, the Zephyr were joined on the field by Gonzaga's women's team and some 400 club players from throughout the region. Also, apparently the clubs are trying to build rosters with attention to bringing in at least some players who already have some connection to that market/region.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to kid myself or anyone else that this divide isn't going to open up. It has in every other league around the world. The NWSL was set up with guardrails in place specifically to prevent that. Those are going, so the inevitable will happen. It's good in one sense that the change appears to benefit the players for a change, rather than going directly into the owners' pockets.
But I'm neither a player nor an owner. I'm a fan, and while I'm glad the players' work is going to be rewarded, I'm not excited about the NWSL turning into those other leagues where, as you note, everyone has their hand out to hit us fans in the wallet.
I don’t really need to see the players as the fans allies to support moves that benefits the players. I’m also simply not that concerned about parity in general.
But also, we have no evidence that the salary cap hasn’t been enforced. Literally none. Gotham has a lot of players, but woso salaries are low! It’s very possible —likely, frankly— that they’re under it. They have a lot of good players, but only one or two that are likely on huge salaries. The main issue is clarity, because we can create conspiracies about how they’re not enforcing cap rules when we don’t have evidence that they are.
Yes! Maintaining competition on the field means the cap needs to be audited and enforced, and that the league needs to ensure (through pressure, incentives, whatever) that all teams are at or near the cap.
Eliminating the expansion draft, in my opinion, is the best thing in this news. I've always thought of the expansion draft as a protection racket. One team says to an expansion time, "I'll give you money if you don't take my player so-and-so." It was ridiculous if you believe that consistency in the roster is a feature (makes the team better), not a bug.
Regarding players having a say in where they go, I recall when Tobin Heath was snagged by Louisville in the expansion draft. Tobin never signed with Louisville. I don't know whether there is actual evidence about the reason for her decision, but my thought is that she didn't want to live there. I wouldn't want to live there either. I spent 6 months on a consulting contract south of the Mason-Dixon line. I couldn't wait to get back home to California.
My first thought about eliminating the expansion draft was that they should call it the "Heath Rule." She said, not long ago, that she was extremely upset (I believe the pertinent phrase was "I couldn't stop crying") about having been unprotected (as an allocated NT player) and then being chosen by Louisville. Of course, a certain former owner had all the leverage in the world then, and certainly could and should have held out for better terms than what that expansion draft called for: a limit of two protected NT/allocated players per team, who in this case were going to be Dunn and Horan, unquestionably.
The reasons for her being that upset I would think go even deeper than not wanting to live in/play for Louisville, although in retrospect she couldn't have been more correct in wanting to avoid that franchise: an incompetently vetted scumbag of a first coach coupled w/ the flailing aimlessness of a front office utterly lacking in vision (as we have seen clearly in the past week). Tobin had established deep ties to this city and franchise: after a highly peripatetic beginning to her pro career, she had bought a house here, helped to establish the Thorns Academy, and was an integral part of the squad from the moment she arrived from PSG in 2013 (I was in awe of her from one of her very first Thorns matches: at home vs. either Boston or Sky Blue-who could tell the difference?-she flat out owned the second half of a tense one-goal game, ultimately putting it away w/ a quick smartly taken throw-in to assist Allie Long's match-icing gem of a bent shot). And Tobin's 2013 playoff run was spectacular: scoring just before the half to begin the semis comeback at KC, then nailing a 35-yd. free kick (on an injured foot!) to win the final at Western New York. I think that shot may still be the greatest clutch play in league history. I found Tobin's 2013 playoff form every bit as memorable as any pro playoff run in the state's history: easily up there w/ Soph, Horan, Valeri, Chara, Walton, Drexler, Roy, Lilliard (or Cam Neely and Natalie Williams for that matter). Peregrine could and should have done better by her, and although this is one of their lesser offenses, some of us won't forget.
Heath was a professional player, and those were the conditions professional players worked under at the time. The club had a plan that didn't include her protection; it was a logical plan, and, frankly, should have worked. I think the club didn't anticipate Louisville being idiotic, and there's no reason they should have.
And Heath's subsequent career suggests the club's plan was sound. She played 24 games after the 2020 season. Should they have left Sophia Smith unprotected instead? Weaver?
Expansion drafts suck, like drafts in general.
But I don't see how the 2020 draft sucked worse on the part of the club. They took a chance assuming that Racing was run by practical people and were wrong. That sucked, too, for our and Racing's fans, and Heath.
But I don't see that as them doing her the dirty.
No-I'm saying when the terms of that expansion draft were being negotiated, Peregrine should have demanded that more than two allocated players got protection (given that this fan base was clearly the primary reason for the league's continued existence). I maintain that they had an enormous amount of leverage and thoroughly squandered it. Things should never have gotten to the point where they chanced Louisville acting like idiots, and yes, I think the club owed her that much. It's entirely possible the club is short at least one star above that logo without her (she was also terrific in the 2017 semi-setting the first goal in motion and assisting on the second).
As to her subsequent history of injuries-who knows? Unless there's some chronic condition we don't know about (and I'll grant Peregrine could have been taking such a thing into consideration), it's also possible she might have had several relatively healthy years had she stayed here.
Yeah, when I read the league's reflection after teams with NWSL representation getting eliminated early in the world cup and taking that as an indicator that the league needed improvement, that was jaw-dropping and the antithesis of MLS. Very exciting to have a domestic league that actually cares about quality and not just lining the owners' pockets!
No more trades, but I assume you can still transfer/sell or loan the player.
But yeah, this is a big player-empowerment set of changes. Good for them, and good work by the players' association!
Yes, but players need to sign off on transfers/loans. So the functional effect is that there's no more forced player movement.
So do you just punt players to the curb if you need to clear roster space? Do owners just have to pony up and pay out the contract? No trades and transfers locks the current Thorns roster into "not even close to competing for hardware" territory for like the next 3 years. Or do front offices start giving a bunch of 1 year contracts to everyone except stars, so they can be offloaded?
You can still buy out contracts. This just means that the players can't be forcibly *moved* elsewhere via trade. It's really not a tremendous change for most of the players who already have guaranteed deals- My understanding (without seeing the actual text) is that this just removes the semi-guaranteed contract option so that ALL players are entitled to full compensation if they're cut.
The Thorns actually have a TON of flexibility and aren't locked into anything because over half the roster is on contracts that expire or have team/mutual options at the end of the season. In fact, the only players on deals that extend past next season are Müller, Fleming, Arnold, Moultrie, Reyes, Hina, and Turner.
The FO will likely have to work harder to make some trades happen if the best value for the FO is not an option a player is interested in. I would assume most players would rather take a trade than be dropped or not be able to get playing time. But this will give the players more control so they're not shipped cross country at the drop of a hat.
I find it very unlikely that trades even happen anymore, and very rarely if they do. A trade now requires:
1. Player interest on both sides.
2. Team interest on both sides.
3. Financials to work out
I imagine most transfers will be for cash, as the rest of the soccer world does it.
Transfers for cash is indeed how Europe does it, which means there are no trades. It also means that teams with the most money fill their rosters with top talent, while 7 out of 10 spend season after season as the practice teams.
Right, I was using trade/transfer synonymously since I seem to recall there have been player movements with just allocation money still labeled "trades". Probably be much easier now with just cash.
Several people have mentioned "no trades", but IIUC it's actually no trades without player consent. It seems to me that a great many recent trades have involved player consent (or request), so they would be fine under the new CBA.
Ultimately, the owners should only care if their salaries are contained as a percentage of income. A cap accomplishes that point.
Drafts are designed to depress the salary of the incoming players. In current leagues, it distributes to the established players in a capped environment. The NBA, NFL, and NHL pay so much more than the competition that it doesn’t matter. In reality, the players unions in those sports want to depress draft salaries to distribute to existing members.
That isn’t the case with the NWSL where European teams buy the best players if they are willing to move. The other open issue is in the NWSL, they tried allocation money which was supposed to be given to the players. Instead it was used to buy picks for lower salary players.
The draft predates cap, but I’m looking at it from the current landscape
Big stuff. Is this a net positive for the Thorns or negative? I wish this included a publishing of player salaries and team cap numbers.
Probably a slighhhht net negative just because Portland's not the most desirable market and more player freedom usually favors the best markets (though maybe less so in the NWSL than other sports), but it's pretty much impossible to tell until we see how it plays out. A lot of it will depend on ownership, but also on more abstract stuff like the facilities, culture, rep, etc etc. It definitely makes good ownership and an appealing fanbase/culture that much more important. Exciting times!
And yes, I think they *really* do need to make the numbers public, but I believe the CBA still prohibits salary being shared without consent. So, still could happen, but not imminently.
How would you rank the market desirability of current NWSL teams?
Purely on market, probably SD/LA/NY and maybeee the Bay are top and then the rest are all clustered around the same area with Utah/Louisville closer to the bottom. But location desirability also has to do with where the players are from, women's health laws, etc, so it's hard to tell. And, obviously, location is only one piece of the larger puzzle- KC, Washington, Orlando, and maybe Portland/Chicago/NCC are going to be more attractive, all for different reasons.
With some smart moves by the Bhathals, we ought to be able to get Portland to outstrip KC and Washington in that mix. Will really depend on how involved and innovative they want to be. As for Orlando, Chicago, NC, we should continue to outstrip them.
2024 through week 17, averages
ACFC 19,500
SDW 19,000
PTFC 18,800
BayFC 14,000
DCS 13,300
KCC 11,500
UTR 10,300
The rest. Worth adding Reign have cratered, no surprise, to 7,900 from 13,600 in '23. Yeek.
My assumption is this will vary based on salary level because a $1 in Portland goes further than $1 in LA/SD/NY.
Hinges on growing fans and viewership in non-NWSL markets. Their crazy-quilt of streaming platforms and scarcity of nationwide broadcasts on mainstream networks do not help. Watch closely how the league capitalizes on the Paris gold medal.
People watch the nats for the star power. Does the league have enough stars to do the same?
Speaking of the crazy quilt - I caught a couple of the USL super league games this weekend because they're all available on Peacock. The broadcast quality was not great and I don't know how much the league was paid for the rights, but, damn, to have all the games in one place!
It's almost a certainty that each team is producing its own broadcast, hence variable quality. There's a possibility that USL is paying Peacock, not the reverse. That's pretty common with new leagues - NWSL did it for the first few years.
Forgot about this lmao...what does everyone think is the first thing Broon says to new teammate Turner:
https://x.com/tayvincent6/status/1774230493061587321
I'll school your youngster ass so sit tight and learn. from the best.
Welp looks like Dias is headed to Tigres!!
https://x.com/Pacoanimas/status/1827165818070630539
Surprised about Tigres, but def best for us (um can we swap for Ovalle?) Shedding another int'l spot also, which means we have 2.
Yeah I can confirm on Portland's end as well. It's a nice fee for Thorns in return.
Yeah that's great to get some $$$ out of it! I assumed we'd just waive her in the offseason for nothing so that's good business for both parties.
Do you know if we're done bringing players in, or do you still expect others before the window closes? Still hoping for a splashier player (whether an attacker or a defender, preferably both), but I also still just think we need at least 1 more solid CB regardless...
Portuguese and Spanish are the same, si?
TBF she speaks English like an American kid and probably has the language thing down pat. Best wishes to her--I thought Tigres looked like a fast and competent squad.
Oh hell yeah! That's honestly kind of a big deal to me from a process evaluation perspective- Missing on swings is much easier to take when they admit it didn't work and fix it quickly instead of doubling down. I'm guessing they're done bringing in players (?) even so, but this is wise regardless.
(And Alvarado got signed by Tijuana, which is funny because that's the only Thorns opponent she played)
Yeah, agree there. Def means they are at least seeing what we're seeing and not sticking with it for 3 or so years. That they're doing it midseason means they're actually getting something for her...maybe they'll even recoup some money there if they got her for super cheap from Russia. Also not a bad landing spot for Dias. Happy it makes our job of figuring out the F line easier lol. Now: Soph, Weaver, Linnehan, Turner, Spaanstra, Sinc, D'Aquila. Lots of young/rookie types and def still need another splashy attacker there, but depth seems to be shaping up nicely.
Been dying observing Mexican/Tigres soccer twitter with regard to this news. Tigres folks are super about an incoming international....bragging they're winning the league. Rayadas fans are cursing their GM for incompetence and their mediocre reinforcements. Posting pictures of who they perceive to be Dias, but is in fact a different Portuguese player. Posting her goal against Xolos in the Summer Cup as evidence to her talent. Saying she plays up top with Sophia Smith, the best USWNT player and scorer of the winning goal in the final (Swanson; and have they ever even played on the field together?) ...Anointing her their new #9. Basically neither team has any idea who she is or what they're getting lol.
Also, saw that with Emi. Unfortunate she went to such a bad team...but I hope it means she gets more time.
That's great for Emi. She looks promising and just needs opportunity to develop further.
That's a good move for all. Hooray!
My translation says “Amazonas,” I’m glad you knew this is Tigres.
Yeah Amazonas is synonymous with Tigres.
I drove by a massive Sophia Smith Nike add on the side of a building on Burnside around 21st near PP today --not sure how long it's been there even though I live in NW-- and it got me thinking about how little Thorns advertising we see in Portland. It's something Washington and KC in particular have done REALLY well to help drive up their respective attendances significantly in the last few years- I'm not sure if the presence of a strong fanbase makes Thorns ownership/marketing department think it's not important here, but I'd love to see a lot more Thorns marketing on buses/buildings/MAX.
Another giant Xfinity/Smith/Thorns cross promotion on the Banfield inbound between exit 43rd Ave and the Lloyd District exit. Something that I think went up in July. It was the first Thorn ad I had seen. I agree, bus/max ads would be a great idea. I hope it starts to take up more ad space in Portland.
Today I saw a TV display at IKEA with a mock scoreboard of Thorns 5 OL Reign 0 put up, that was kinda cute
The new CBA is a done deal. It includes a salary cap.
https://equalizersoccer.com/quick-update/nwsl-eliminates-college-draft-establishes-free-agency-in-new-cba/
The NWSL Players Association introduced a groundbreaking new Collective Bargaining Agreement that makes the NWSL the first American professional sports league to eliminate its college draft. Among other changes, the CBA also establishes workload management for players, introduces guaranteed contracts, requires player consent for trades and creates free agency for all players. The new CBA, which will be in place through 2030, also establishes a base salary cap that is tied to revenue-sharing from the league’s sponsorship and media rights agreements.
Many outlets covered it, so we will cover the new CBA from a Portland Thorns point of view. I'll be asking players and coaches about it at training next week and there will be a piece on it.
Good to hear. Thank you. Given there no longer being a college draft, you might also ask ownership/management what are the implications, particularly costs, of scouting and recruiting collegiate players to want to sign with the Thorns. I wouldn't expect a change in the scouting. But I'm wondering whether more time and money would need to be spent on recruiting. Does Karina LeBlanc go out wining and dining potential college grads? Are potential recruits flown into Portland and given tours of the city? Would they have meetings with the Riveters?
Curious what the Spaanstra and Turner additions mean for the Dias/Linnehan/Izzy group, especially once Weaver gets back. You could argue that Turner is a straight swap for Beckie, but I think there's a chance she gets some of the backup nine minutes too. If *I* was managing, the depth chart is pretty clear once Weaver returns:
LW: Weaver, Spaanstra
ST: Smith, Izzy, Dias
RW: Turner, Linnehan (swap 'em if you prefer)
That's a nice group! My semi-big concern is that Dias and Sinc will get Izzy and Linnehan's minutes, but this also clears a path to just straight up not retaining Dias this offseason. I'd also be very open to an Izzy loan.
dias's days must be numbered
My assumption is they let her contract expire and move on unless you believe they can secure more than 1 high profile international
Or not. Dias has been so ineffective that she's perfectly dispensible.
My perspective is they just added two young players to fight for one open spot on the starting line in Turner and Spaanstra. Linnehan deserves a run there as well if she can get healthy.
The other two should be quality depth. I do like the quality of young player they’ve brought in and with Sinclair retiring, they should have serious funds to acquire a star CB.
Also, I mentioned this below and I think I am remembering it right. I could have swore I read or heard that Janine wanted to get closer to her fiancé who has his own business in Florida and this certainly does it (can you imagine a worse commute in the same country). My assumption is this is something she wanted with the extension.
Will be surprised if Morgan can manage to play 90 before the season ends, so if one or both give a like-for-like pairing with her maybe Thorns can play a more familiar/effective lineup the rest of the way in '24.
On the topic, hope we get Weaver-time when play resumes next week. Bring forth the good chaos!
Has anybody seen Weaver training? I am looking forward to the happy chaos Muppet. And very happy with the Spaanstra and Turner acquisitions. Why look abroad when there is such a deep pool of talent here in the US? Both seem to be like Weaver, just a bit below National team level.
I hope we see Turner up top sometimes, paired with Smith on occasion. She’s competition for Linnehan for sure, who has been good but isn’t inked in as a starter. Spaanstra should complement Weaver. They can alternate. Fleming or Hina could play right wing in a pinch too, though I’d rather not. I’ve yet to see Fleming show her quality for club that she has for country, at least consistently. It’s good for her and Liv to fight for minutes. I hope when Sinclair retires that we fill her spot with someone versatile enough to play 9/10. A midfield of Coffey and two of Hina/Fleming/Moultrie should be enough to move the ball through midfield and link up to the attack but we’re not seeing enough of it yet.
No more college draft?
https://x.com/TheDanLauletta/status/1826354857835724910
Yeah this has been in the works for quite a bit. Seems like it is finalized now.
They better remove the expansion draft altogether now as well
This is so freakin huge. First American pro sport to do away with the draft, I believe.
It doesn't make sense to me. I have puzzled for years how European soccer is interesting to fans when 7 out of ten teams don't have a snowball's chance in Hades winning a league championship for decades, or never. Players can join any team they want, but especially those teams that have the most money to spend.
I've watched Olypique Lyon Femenine from time to time playing lesser teams in their league. Competitiveness is a joke.
Innnnnteresting!
To me the critical part of making this NOT turn the league into D1F (OL, PSG, and eight teams for them to thrash) is a hard cap and the willingness to investigate and enforce it.
Make it a high cap, to attract talent…but unless you want an Emirati plutocrat to turn Houston into ManCity in orange there’s got to be a way to keep some measure of parity without the leveling influence of the draft…
I like it for the players’ sakes. But the players and owners interests are not the same as the fans, and we can’t let ourselves forget that.
Worth noting that fewer and fewer of the elite pro prospects are actually going to college, so this probably will have a much smaller impact on parity than it might appear on first glance. I'd also guess that the remaining top players will pretty evenly distribute themselves around the desirable markets where there's opportunity to play, so it would surprise me if this really widened the gap significantly.
If anything, this will probably help the NWSL retain its top domestic talent.
Again, only if the league doesn't let an owner or small group of owners use their wallets to create OLs or Wolfsburgs or Chelseas. Then the "top talent" will go to those teams, and the rest will be punching bags for those teams.
That'll work in Europe, where team loyalties are generational. But here? No.
It's hard for me to see a world without a salary cap, so that seems extremely unlikely....even if the cap rules are riddled with loopholes. I'd also say that the biggest European issue in woso is not really that the top end spends so much, it's that the bottom end doesn't give a shit.
Because the top end is so much richer. Why bother when Aulas or the Emiratis will always stupid more money? There's only so many soccer-mad plutocrats, and here? Even fewer.
And enforcement is key. If the league lets the plutocrats go wild the way they did with OLR's French mercenaries the cap won't matter. It'll be ugly.
Like I said; clubs like Brighton or Reading draw because people in Brighton and Reading are supporters because their mom or dad and granddad were. Houston? LA? No. There's nothing like that here. If the NWSL splits in Gotham and Orlando and tomato cans? Fan interest will crater.
So if the league is going to a European model - which this is - they'll need stronger guardrails for "financial fair play" than the European leagues that have stood by while ManCity and OL laugh at them...
That's actually not really true though. There are numerous examples -- mostly on the men's side so far-- where the mega-rich/oil barons have bought in to so called smaller clubs and elevated them. That's the entire Manchester City story. Leipizig with the Red Bull group. Newcastle was already a well-supported club, but it happened with them with the Saudis. Kang's trying to do it right now with London City. It's hard to make it work when the team isn't in a major market and doesn't have a built-in fanbase, but it's very possible. Anyhow, there is no salary cap (no, FFP is not even close to an actual America-style cap) in Europe- Until there isn't a hard salary cap here, I kinda doubt we'll have an OL-type situation.
That said, there are always going to the haves and the have nots. Owners that actually try and care in a salary cap league still can do a hell of a lot more than those that don't. That's the case in every single American sport. Markets matter. Coaches matter to a lesser extent. The NWSL will get more stratified as the talent level and investment level gets better, and that's a GOOD thing, not a bad one. The goal shouldn't to achieve MLS-levels of parity.
Hmm. Does USLSL now proudly proclaim their "2025 Draft, and Beyond!"?
NCAA Transfer Portal lives on.
Don't look now, but Utah no longer stink on ice.
OG Menges with the match winner. Was it Betfort who initially applied the pressure with the shot?
And poor Jane Campbell. Somebody rescue that woman from the Houston tire fire. She's far too good to go her entire career never playing a meaningful match for club or country.
God do I feel agony for Campbell trapped in what Chief quipped is that Petrostate. She was sharp as a sharpened tack last night--good thing because they would have lost by several instead of the one goal.
Eyes on Patterson, who had a good game despite the miserable team, a big, strong skilled forward with a lot of upside, but stuck there. She nearly won the College Cup final for UNC single-handed, in '22. Dropped in the draft for no observable reason.
Tanaka was the one who created the OG. And yeah- Utah are very much a low-end playoff caliber team for my money once Lacasse gets the Monaghan spot. Still missing a striker, but Sentnor kinda allows Betfort to run around and cause chaos, which is her real strength. I do wonder if they eventually go with a Monaghan-Tanaka-Lacasse front three, but I think they like the energy in the press Betfort brings.
I guess the trade is OK - getting something is usually better than getting nothing. But we aren't exactly filling our positions of greatest need. GK, RW, and third non-scoring attacker are NOT our roster weaknesses. Our cup overfloweth in those spots. How about a CB, and then another CB, and then maybe a LB and a backup 6?
Not to pick on this but rather to make a point because a lot of people talk about a backup 6:
I just don't see getting a specialist there as something that's going to be particularly worthwhile Sam Coffey is going to start every game she's fit for. We had a backup 6 in Taylor Porter, and that's the level you're going to get. Getting an 8 that can play 6 is probably more worthwhile, and I'd argue Hina is that.
I wouldn’t want Hina to start at 6. I agree with you that having a dedicated 6 sub probably doesn’t make much sense, at least at this stage in Coffey’s career where she’s not going to miss many matches. Dual 8s below a 10 could work, but nobody has convinced me they own the 10 role. Liv and Fleming could do it. One of them would be the second 8 on that scenario. I think Liv has shown more upside all around for Thorns but Fleming could make a case for 8 or 10. Trying to shoehorn Sinc in has dragged this out too. A younger version of what she can do, start at 9 and drop deep into 10, would be great but also wasteful right now, unless we went with a two-forward formation. Then we’d be wasting wingers.
This is probably true, but I think there's an argument for bringing in a Dani Colaprico type player with some experience so that we're not relying on other key players to backfill. Kling's fine for the time being though, and Gale pretty much just eliminated the six entirely by going to the 3-4-3 lol.
Fair point about 3-4-3 and Kling, at least for this season. Kling should retire this year though.
I think Kling's still got some real utility based on how she's played this year, especially compared to Sinc. She's pretty much the ideal player to keep around a young team--if she doesn't want to retire-- imo: Can still do a job when needed, vocal team leader, isn't going to require a lot of minutes.
Super sub and not a starter, preferably. Good defense for anybody in front of her, dime queen on set pieces, influential leader. But slip past her and the back line is going to have to clean it up, pronto.
Keep the mileage down and her wheels still have something left.
Sure, if you can get that level of player to come in and be a backup. But finding a higher level 8 is probably the better course of action here
I feel a lot better about this if Beckie requested the trade. We needed better depth or an upgrade on the wing too, especially with uncertainty around Weaver and her continued absence. We definitely need better CBs. I’m happy with Müller and Reyes at fullback but not convinced of our depth and we’ll definitely need replacements for Klingenberg and Sauerbrunn. We really need a backup 6th. Moving Rocky to bring in Fleming hasn’t paid off at all (yet?). The three-way tie with her, Hina and Liv as hybrid 8/10s is a good problem to have, I guess. I don’t really want to have to force Hina out wide, so Linnehan, Turner, and Spaanstra help with that. Fleming can supposedly play on the wing as well. But yeah CB, FB, and DM are the remaining needs. Good thing we have some players likely to retire and surplus stock at forward and GK.
I’d rather play Hina at forward than Fleming personally, but I assume neither is moving to forward soon.
We’ll never have perfect roster composition, but these two moves seem like the start of something bigger.
I didn’t mean to imply Fleming or Hina would play forward. More wide attacking midfielder than traditional winger. Neither is a winger. I’m thinking 4-2-3-1 not 4-3-3.
That makes sense.
Expect most of that in the offseason. This was a knocking opportunity and they answered.
Winger was quite clearly the biggest roster need imo, especially with the uncertainty with Weaver's health. They definitely do need another high level CB (and a backup six), but I think the CB trio they have should suffice until the offseason. They go two deep at each FB position, so I'd say they're pretty set there.
I'd have been happier with Erceg for Beckie, I think (assuming Louisville). Or Sam Staab, injury and all, if Chicago was in a trading mood.
Eh, no thanks on a 34 year old Abby Erceg. Staab would be awesome, but no chance Chicago moves her.
Well, I 'd take Erceg because 34 < 39 and also she can score on a set piece. But for sure Staab would be better - she has a long throw too. I've been high on her since she came into the league.
see kielbasa comment above. brunn was national team captain and still playing a year ago. Erceg? Bruun ahould only leave when ahe is ready or reaches Sinc levels of waiting too long.
Isn’t Erceg a free agent next year anyway?