I get to frustrated with this team in possession. They still don’t move off the ball enough but it’s not hurting as much with the buildup running through Ayala, who consistently progresses the ball through midfield. But so, so often we just play it back and then launch it long to nobody. Mora isn’t winning headers up there, and even if he did, what good does it do? It’s like we’re playing redbulls soccer where we hit it long just to play the second ball. And to be fair, it works like 35% of the time, but man we look so much better when we actually try to build up. We have good players who can pass! If they just moved around a bit, we could cut through teams so easily (you know, how easily teams cut through us). This was not helped by Pantemis’ distribution, which was not only long but often not to a player at all.
Defense wasn’t great. The team was just a bit lazy. More of the same, really. Mosquera was pretty good like I think he has been for a month or so. McGraw had a few shaky moments but was otherwise an absolute beast in the air. Bravo had an up and down game, more down than his standard. Ayala and Chara both played very well in the midfield and Ayala was very close to scoring, I am desperate for him to get a goal, he deserves it. Moreno was also very up and down but I’ll easily take him over Antony right now. Both seem to falter in the final third but Moreno is much better in the buildup and creates some dangerous moments, even if the execution isn’t there. His toolbox is more versatile than Antony’s too.
Overall glad we’re getting points despite bad performances, but the luck will run out against good teams. This was a bad performance and the team needs to improve a LOT is we’re to compete with better teams
Who do you think is not running off the ball? I'd venture to say that Antony would definitely run and get in behind, too, and give the offense more vibrancy. Moreno had some good moments, but he also is overall kinda blah, imo. And for heavens sake, get out of the way of Rodriguez when he cuts in. I'm hoping both Moreno and Antony shine because in a long season, we're going to need them both at some point. It's just that having them both right now is stunting Antony because Moreno is favored. And when he does come in as a sub he plays on the left, which is his weaker side. I think Antony is getting the shaft in that regard.
While I praise Ayala and Moreno for running off the ball — because they do it the best — it’s an entire team problem. So often the ball will be at our center backs and the entire team in front of them will be standing completely still. Like, completely. No movement at all. Ayala and Moreno are then usually the first ones to realize and try to create space. It’s got to be a fix with the entire team. Chara doesn’t do a good job of it and he’s probably the most important next to Ayala with ball progression, which is a shame. Evander usually doesn’t at all. Rodriguez definitely doesn’t. And it sucks because all of these players are starters and are playing well when they get the ball! But the entire team doesn’t work hard enough to progress the ball into the final third. A lot of our players seem to only move to get the ball, without realizing that they need to move to open up space for others to get the ball.
Moreno is just better on the ball, while he makes some bonehead plays in the final third he also makes a lot of really good plays in the middle third. He is able to beat players off the dribble more consistently than Antony and his passing is way better. He plays a lot of long balls that open up the play. Antony has had a long stretch of games where he started and in my opinion he disappointed. He loses the ball so much and doesn’t get in dangerous areas like Moreno does. That connects to the off the ball movement — it’s not a coincidence that Moreno is so often able to get the ball in these little pockets of space inverted from the wing and can drive at the defense. He moves around and finds spots between the midfield and defense on the half turn. He falters at that point, and it’s a problem, but I’ll take that over Antony who often disappears and doesn’t create much danger with his speed to begin with. I like Antony though and want him to succeed
This ie EVERYTHING about our difficulties advancing the ball out of the back. Love Chara but he is constantly standing behind an opposing player when a short jog right or left makes him available. Ayala is the example every other player should be emulating.
Ayala is absolutely the model of what everyone should be doing. Receives the ball and is always looking forward to progress the play. But the problem is, as I said, is that this lineup is justifiably pretty set. While Chara has of course taken a step back from his glory days and had some shaky performances early in the season, he’s still been pretty damn good for the past two months, especially with Ayala next to him. He’s a starter. That being said, Phil has made a point of resting him here and there, and I would *really* like to see a midfield with Ayala and Williamson behind Evander. I think Williamson deserves more time than he’s gotten, and could potentially add another dynamic to this team in possession
Yes, I do want Moreno to succeed. I've focused on the negative with him and haven't appreciated the better parts of his game, like you mentioned: passing and dribbling, especially in the buildup. I hope he can work on his game in the final third where he can create a shot for himself or others because we could be so dangerous. One negative thing on Moreno, though, he loses it a ton, too.
As for Antony, I've seen enough of him to think he's a quality player. He offers a different skill set than Moreno, and I think he has more of a killer instinct around the goal, which we need. He commands double teams when he's out there. I think teams think of him as a threat.
We'll see. Maybe this battle for playing time is a good thing. I didn't think it was, because someone is going to lose out. But I'll be happy either way with Timbers wins.
It was a nervy game. It seemed to me that the Timbers were dominated most of the game but they gutted it out, and got some luck too. In the end, possession was pretty even as was passing accuracy but it didn’t feel that way watching it. I hope they rest up for Saturday night! RCTID
What a well written article. I agreed with your analysis 100% and you managed to inject your writing with what I assume most Timbers fans were feeling while watching the game. Kudos.
That was an aggressive lineup, that for some reason, played super tentatively and conservatively against the worst team in MLS. I was impressed with the way the team was set up, but for all Phil's talk every single game about grit and pashun and Having The Right Attitude All The Time, I'm not sure exactly what he told the team before this game. That lineup, on paper, should have steamrolled the Quakes and not really broken a sweat.
Points are points, and I'm happy for the win, but I'm very confused as to why they played so meekly. If not for some absolutely dire SJ finishing, that could have been a suuuuuuuuper embarrassing game. As it is, that's five unbeaten, and that ain't bad, but if the Timbers play like that against Vancouver, they better not expect a similar result.
And that's a Phil thing, to me. He absolutely set up the team to succeed - that was a very good lineup last night. But for all his post-game comments (not from last night, I haven't seen the postgame from yesterday yet) about how he wants his teams to have the "right mentality" and to play hard and to be tough etc., I didn't see a whole lot of that last night, and I'm not sure why.
If Phil's constantly preaching that mentality message to his team, either it's not getting through or they're just not capable of it, because if they can't raise their mentality level against a team like San Jose, that does not bode well for games against actual good teams. Maybe last night was a one-off, but Phil's one consistent message this season has been about mentality, and that was the one thing that absolutely wasn't right last night, when a lot of other things were.
I hear you, but I tend to blame the players more than the coach. A coach can only use motivation so much before it sounds like white noise. The players have to make it so. They need to hold each other accountable. They need to hate losing with a passion. As always, I think the Timbers are a soft team and will continue to be w/o recruiting some assholes. For all his personal faults, I miss a Will Johnson type of presence on the field. I love Chara and he's our captain and he's tough, but he's such a NICE GUY. I was seeing a little nasty ferocity from Ayala yesterday. That is hopeful. I would kill to have Tim Parker as a CB. Does anybody play the Timbers think, "oh no, I have to go against (insert any players name here), I'm going to suffer for 90"
Yeah, I think it's a little of both, honestly. It could be that it's said so much in training that the players just sorta tune it out, as you say, and that means the coaching staff needs to find better ways to say it. But it absolutely is on the players to hold themselves accountable and to play with that bite and that ferocity, more than they have.
"Does anybody play the Timbers think, "oh no, I have to go against (insert any players name here), I'm going to suffer for 90"
Absolutely not, and I agree it'd be great to have one or two of those guys. Those guys seem like a dying breed these days, though, which is too bad - I definitely agree on the on-the-field Will Johnson, someone like that who is not afraid to call out a teammate is definitely an asset.
I missed the first 30min of the game, but I'm surprised that literally no one (mls staff writers, commenters here) have said a single word about Evander's defense. From what I saw, he was regularly tracking back and doing some real work. It really stood out to me while watching the game, and I thought it was a good sign of his team commitment. He broke up several plays with his work, almost looking more like a creative d-mid at times. Just sayin'...
Let's face it, who was excited to watch SJ v Portland for the umpteenth time? Especially when they aren't good. I'm sure the players feel the same way. Granted, I like soccer and I like watching the Timbers, but it's not exciting like it is against virtually any other team. And, it's not like they aren't that good; they actually play some good soccer. Their keeper made a mistake on the first goal and we had our two best players connect on the second goal. I think they'll be pretty fired up for the Vancouver game. I know I will be.
A couple of other notes:
Ayala is looking really good. McGraw got beat long a bunch of times. Moreno is too nice (in reference to comments saying our team needs some nasty) and another reason to play Antony. I'm pretty satisfied with a 2-1 midweek win after a layoff.
Well, I usually am only able to make it to 1-2 games a year. This year I got a few tickets for my birthday and the home game vs SJ was my first. Made it a point to take my coworker who had never been to one before and it was obviously exciting. One of my last tickets before that was watching Asprilla score his awesome bike on them. So...I feel excited to watch us play SJ. Also, they are indeed wooden spoon leaders, but they're honestly not playing that bad. I'm not at all surprised that this game stayed close. SJ is disjointed, but actually can be very dangerous. I agree with the post that says "this was a 3-3 game that ended 2-1". However, all points about pdx looking like less than themselves are valid. A real lack of urgency in this game. Take the road win, I guess.
It did turn out exciting. Going up, then equalized and then a quality winner from Rodriguez. They may be at the bottom, but I agree, they can be dangerous. A road win indeed, and crucial as we continue the climb up the table!
I’m wondering about the Summer transfer. I’ve heard different preferences. Younger, target striker, good in the air that provides depth. A goal scoring right winger but it’s a bit crowded in that position. I’m torn and I’m not used to considering impact players on defense. I’m hoping the performance last night was due to lag from time off. SJ missed sitters; so do we. Not sure, but I think SDM was getting beat in behind. Agree with other post that JR and Mora should be hit running in behind, not as a target. Only Asprilla gets these. More ball possession, when we turn the ball over, keep it. Winning second balls and, at least win the throw ins for Christ sake. Phil, get on it.
A couple trivial notes:
That Marie goal was brilliant, made more brilliant by whoever runs the smoke machine. Timed beautifully.
Bummed about Evander's hair. Always looked forward to what he was going to do with it.
Less so, but still pretty lucky against SJ again. They must hate playing us.
Cooling summer haircut. I noticed the smoke machine too! I thought it must be wired to the goal netting.
yeah, he doesn't look bad with the short hair but I liked the big hair a lot.
I get to frustrated with this team in possession. They still don’t move off the ball enough but it’s not hurting as much with the buildup running through Ayala, who consistently progresses the ball through midfield. But so, so often we just play it back and then launch it long to nobody. Mora isn’t winning headers up there, and even if he did, what good does it do? It’s like we’re playing redbulls soccer where we hit it long just to play the second ball. And to be fair, it works like 35% of the time, but man we look so much better when we actually try to build up. We have good players who can pass! If they just moved around a bit, we could cut through teams so easily (you know, how easily teams cut through us). This was not helped by Pantemis’ distribution, which was not only long but often not to a player at all.
Defense wasn’t great. The team was just a bit lazy. More of the same, really. Mosquera was pretty good like I think he has been for a month or so. McGraw had a few shaky moments but was otherwise an absolute beast in the air. Bravo had an up and down game, more down than his standard. Ayala and Chara both played very well in the midfield and Ayala was very close to scoring, I am desperate for him to get a goal, he deserves it. Moreno was also very up and down but I’ll easily take him over Antony right now. Both seem to falter in the final third but Moreno is much better in the buildup and creates some dangerous moments, even if the execution isn’t there. His toolbox is more versatile than Antony’s too.
Overall glad we’re getting points despite bad performances, but the luck will run out against good teams. This was a bad performance and the team needs to improve a LOT is we’re to compete with better teams
Who do you think is not running off the ball? I'd venture to say that Antony would definitely run and get in behind, too, and give the offense more vibrancy. Moreno had some good moments, but he also is overall kinda blah, imo. And for heavens sake, get out of the way of Rodriguez when he cuts in. I'm hoping both Moreno and Antony shine because in a long season, we're going to need them both at some point. It's just that having them both right now is stunting Antony because Moreno is favored. And when he does come in as a sub he plays on the left, which is his weaker side. I think Antony is getting the shaft in that regard.
While I praise Ayala and Moreno for running off the ball — because they do it the best — it’s an entire team problem. So often the ball will be at our center backs and the entire team in front of them will be standing completely still. Like, completely. No movement at all. Ayala and Moreno are then usually the first ones to realize and try to create space. It’s got to be a fix with the entire team. Chara doesn’t do a good job of it and he’s probably the most important next to Ayala with ball progression, which is a shame. Evander usually doesn’t at all. Rodriguez definitely doesn’t. And it sucks because all of these players are starters and are playing well when they get the ball! But the entire team doesn’t work hard enough to progress the ball into the final third. A lot of our players seem to only move to get the ball, without realizing that they need to move to open up space for others to get the ball.
Moreno is just better on the ball, while he makes some bonehead plays in the final third he also makes a lot of really good plays in the middle third. He is able to beat players off the dribble more consistently than Antony and his passing is way better. He plays a lot of long balls that open up the play. Antony has had a long stretch of games where he started and in my opinion he disappointed. He loses the ball so much and doesn’t get in dangerous areas like Moreno does. That connects to the off the ball movement — it’s not a coincidence that Moreno is so often able to get the ball in these little pockets of space inverted from the wing and can drive at the defense. He moves around and finds spots between the midfield and defense on the half turn. He falters at that point, and it’s a problem, but I’ll take that over Antony who often disappears and doesn’t create much danger with his speed to begin with. I like Antony though and want him to succeed
This ie EVERYTHING about our difficulties advancing the ball out of the back. Love Chara but he is constantly standing behind an opposing player when a short jog right or left makes him available. Ayala is the example every other player should be emulating.
Ayala is absolutely the model of what everyone should be doing. Receives the ball and is always looking forward to progress the play. But the problem is, as I said, is that this lineup is justifiably pretty set. While Chara has of course taken a step back from his glory days and had some shaky performances early in the season, he’s still been pretty damn good for the past two months, especially with Ayala next to him. He’s a starter. That being said, Phil has made a point of resting him here and there, and I would *really* like to see a midfield with Ayala and Williamson behind Evander. I think Williamson deserves more time than he’s gotten, and could potentially add another dynamic to this team in possession
Yes, I do want Moreno to succeed. I've focused on the negative with him and haven't appreciated the better parts of his game, like you mentioned: passing and dribbling, especially in the buildup. I hope he can work on his game in the final third where he can create a shot for himself or others because we could be so dangerous. One negative thing on Moreno, though, he loses it a ton, too.
As for Antony, I've seen enough of him to think he's a quality player. He offers a different skill set than Moreno, and I think he has more of a killer instinct around the goal, which we need. He commands double teams when he's out there. I think teams think of him as a threat.
We'll see. Maybe this battle for playing time is a good thing. I didn't think it was, because someone is going to lose out. But I'll be happy either way with Timbers wins.
It was a nervy game. It seemed to me that the Timbers were dominated most of the game but they gutted it out, and got some luck too. In the end, possession was pretty even as was passing accuracy but it didn’t feel that way watching it. I hope they rest up for Saturday night! RCTID
What a well written article. I agreed with your analysis 100% and you managed to inject your writing with what I assume most Timbers fans were feeling while watching the game. Kudos.
That was an aggressive lineup, that for some reason, played super tentatively and conservatively against the worst team in MLS. I was impressed with the way the team was set up, but for all Phil's talk every single game about grit and pashun and Having The Right Attitude All The Time, I'm not sure exactly what he told the team before this game. That lineup, on paper, should have steamrolled the Quakes and not really broken a sweat.
Points are points, and I'm happy for the win, but I'm very confused as to why they played so meekly. If not for some absolutely dire SJ finishing, that could have been a suuuuuuuuper embarrassing game. As it is, that's five unbeaten, and that ain't bad, but if the Timbers play like that against Vancouver, they better not expect a similar result.
They were all over SJ the first 15 minutes and then after they scored they totally chilled out. A mental hazard with many soccer teams.
And that's a Phil thing, to me. He absolutely set up the team to succeed - that was a very good lineup last night. But for all his post-game comments (not from last night, I haven't seen the postgame from yesterday yet) about how he wants his teams to have the "right mentality" and to play hard and to be tough etc., I didn't see a whole lot of that last night, and I'm not sure why.
If Phil's constantly preaching that mentality message to his team, either it's not getting through or they're just not capable of it, because if they can't raise their mentality level against a team like San Jose, that does not bode well for games against actual good teams. Maybe last night was a one-off, but Phil's one consistent message this season has been about mentality, and that was the one thing that absolutely wasn't right last night, when a lot of other things were.
I hear you, but I tend to blame the players more than the coach. A coach can only use motivation so much before it sounds like white noise. The players have to make it so. They need to hold each other accountable. They need to hate losing with a passion. As always, I think the Timbers are a soft team and will continue to be w/o recruiting some assholes. For all his personal faults, I miss a Will Johnson type of presence on the field. I love Chara and he's our captain and he's tough, but he's such a NICE GUY. I was seeing a little nasty ferocity from Ayala yesterday. That is hopeful. I would kill to have Tim Parker as a CB. Does anybody play the Timbers think, "oh no, I have to go against (insert any players name here), I'm going to suffer for 90"
Yeah, I think it's a little of both, honestly. It could be that it's said so much in training that the players just sorta tune it out, as you say, and that means the coaching staff needs to find better ways to say it. But it absolutely is on the players to hold themselves accountable and to play with that bite and that ferocity, more than they have.
"Does anybody play the Timbers think, "oh no, I have to go against (insert any players name here), I'm going to suffer for 90"
Absolutely not, and I agree it'd be great to have one or two of those guys. Those guys seem like a dying breed these days, though, which is too bad - I definitely agree on the on-the-field Will Johnson, someone like that who is not afraid to call out a teammate is definitely an asset.
That was a 3-3 game that we won 2-1. Lucky
I missed the first 30min of the game, but I'm surprised that literally no one (mls staff writers, commenters here) have said a single word about Evander's defense. From what I saw, he was regularly tracking back and doing some real work. It really stood out to me while watching the game, and I thought it was a good sign of his team commitment. He broke up several plays with his work, almost looking more like a creative d-mid at times. Just sayin'...
Let's face it, who was excited to watch SJ v Portland for the umpteenth time? Especially when they aren't good. I'm sure the players feel the same way. Granted, I like soccer and I like watching the Timbers, but it's not exciting like it is against virtually any other team. And, it's not like they aren't that good; they actually play some good soccer. Their keeper made a mistake on the first goal and we had our two best players connect on the second goal. I think they'll be pretty fired up for the Vancouver game. I know I will be.
A couple of other notes:
Ayala is looking really good. McGraw got beat long a bunch of times. Moreno is too nice (in reference to comments saying our team needs some nasty) and another reason to play Antony. I'm pretty satisfied with a 2-1 midweek win after a layoff.
Well, I usually am only able to make it to 1-2 games a year. This year I got a few tickets for my birthday and the home game vs SJ was my first. Made it a point to take my coworker who had never been to one before and it was obviously exciting. One of my last tickets before that was watching Asprilla score his awesome bike on them. So...I feel excited to watch us play SJ. Also, they are indeed wooden spoon leaders, but they're honestly not playing that bad. I'm not at all surprised that this game stayed close. SJ is disjointed, but actually can be very dangerous. I agree with the post that says "this was a 3-3 game that ended 2-1". However, all points about pdx looking like less than themselves are valid. A real lack of urgency in this game. Take the road win, I guess.
It did turn out exciting. Going up, then equalized and then a quality winner from Rodriguez. They may be at the bottom, but I agree, they can be dangerous. A road win indeed, and crucial as we continue the climb up the table!
I’m wondering about the Summer transfer. I’ve heard different preferences. Younger, target striker, good in the air that provides depth. A goal scoring right winger but it’s a bit crowded in that position. I’m torn and I’m not used to considering impact players on defense. I’m hoping the performance last night was due to lag from time off. SJ missed sitters; so do we. Not sure, but I think SDM was getting beat in behind. Agree with other post that JR and Mora should be hit running in behind, not as a target. Only Asprilla gets these. More ball possession, when we turn the ball over, keep it. Winning second balls and, at least win the throw ins for Christ sake. Phil, get on it.