Alright, here’s a distilled version of my big issue with the NWSL ruling beyond the fact that it’s bizarrely punitive:
“Frivolous” is a subjective term. By attaching an extreme punishment to a subjective term, you’re not being clear with your rules. I understand the goal is to dissuade appeals of obviously correct decisions, but this is an ABSURD, bush-league way of doing that.
Lastly, because I’m seeing a lot of blame (mostly from Rifer) being put on the Thorns for deciding to appeal:
Yeah, the risk management wasn’t great given the rule in place, but going after that aspect of the situation deflects blame from the entity which deserves it, which is the NWSL. The Thorns probably felt like they were protecting their star player, who gets targeted every week without protection from refs and probably told them she didn’t mean to do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable appeal under any circumstance but the one the NWSL curated and putting the burden of fault on the Thorns seems a little victim-blame-y to me, to the extent a soccer org can truly be a victim.
Also: The whole POINT of an appeal is that it’s subjective. The right to appeal is *because* referee decisions are subjective. Yet, somehow, the league has a rule that is intended to put the fear of god into a team thinking of filing an appeal just because they don’t want to have the disciplinary committee spend a few extra minutes on a denial? If your goal is to dissuade teams from making any appeal at all, I suppose this is one way to achieve it!
Just when I think this league is starting to get their act together…. JFC
Nadia Nadim just retweeted a similar sentiment re: the league getting their act together...
Probably didn't help that like the entirety of twitter, including all woso media/journalists/"journalists" loudly assumed Soph's motives after the fact and were making all kinds of assumptions about her character. It was amazing how few people thought it could actually be unintentional. I hope Soph goes god mode this weekend.
I can see how it looked intentional, might very well have been intentional despite what I and others think, and it's certainly funnier if it was intentional....but I've seen red card appeals for obvious violent conduct and they weren't deemed frivolous!
No, frivolous is not a subjective term. It has a legal meaning throughout federal and state law. But... unless it's been clearly defined in the NWSL's rules on what counts as a "frivolous" challenge, you could well challenge that conclusion and criterion. Especially if it is at all subject to collective bargaining as pertains to players.
The established legal definition is “when the claim lacks any arguable basis in either law or fact.” Even if the NWSL is using that definition (it is not), the appeal itself isn’t frivolous.
But again, the definition or lackthereof is only one of the problems. The main issue is that this punishment exists at all. It’s disproportionate to an excessive scale.
I have generally agreed with AB4 more than anyone else on this board. More likes than anyone else. But I really have to disagree here. This red card situation isn’t anything like an appeal for violent conduct. This harsh a penalty, upgrading the suspension and essentially a fine to the team, is the result of Smith showing up a ref, and the team going along with it by way of an appeal. In no way is this a defense of Chesky. She’s awful. But the league can’t have players showing up the ref. Given the rule already in place, the appeal was a dumb move by the team.
She was, at worst, wasting time. That’s not showing up the ref. Also, who gives a fuck? The penalty (a yellow card and subsequent red) is the penalty for the action the referee saw. They didn’t upgrade the suspension because of Smith’s actions, they upgraded it because of a shitty rule that is only in place because the league is too lazy to review appeals / doesn't want their referees getting questioned.
So yeah. It probably wasn’t very smart to appeal given the rule. But the vitriol should go to the league, not the the Thorns, because the rule is objectively bad. There's probably a greater societal lesson in here somewhere, but we have to stop focusing the blame on the entities subject to the shitty laws instead of those who created and enforce said laws. Chesky, for instance, will never be punished for her consistent awfulness....but the Thorns and Soph will because she got frustrated after getting punted around the field for 90 minutes.
True. And this is a league where there's a lot of (pardon the gendered phrase) on-field bitching about calls and non-calls. Lots of players sitting, standing, or wandering around with their arms above their heads, making a Y of their bodies while play continues. Yes, the officiating ABSOLUTELY needs to be better and more consistent, but every player knows you're not going to accomplish that by complaining during the match or showing up the ref. Period.
True, regarding officiating. Showing up the ref depends on whether you believe it was intentional or not. Fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Intentional or not, the league can’t risk the appearance of showing up the ref. That would make NWSL a bush league. In the end, the player’s appeal has Smith back on the field Sunday. The entire episode was dumb from beginning to end. Hope it’s over.
Appeals of disciplinary actions are *routine* in every other major sports league I follow. What is even the point of this rule that punishes teams for appealing? If I'm the NWSLPA, I'm calling up my friends in NFLPA and MLBPA and figuring out how to get this awful rule tossed in the trash in the next CBA.
I'm in the camp that fully believes Smith wasted time on purpose and I love that she was carded for it. I can't stand when players do this shit. But if you're not allowed to make your case dispassionately after the fact without risking a MASSIVE punishment, why even have an appeals process at all?
I was absolutely shocked also. Like, clear crunching of the ankle! Game-changing also, in hindsight. If Gotham go down to 10, I doubt they win that game.
Hey, I posted another coach-watch candidate (but one actually linked to the NWSL, which prob means the Thorns) on the newest thread, but I'm interested in your opinion. I know you've been inclined to favor Euro coaches (and not necessarily just big names)...but would love to know what you think about Guarino.
All I know about her is that she's an ex-player who was pretty big in growing women's soccer in Italy after her playing career ended. I remember her being in the news every so often when she took over the Juventus job in 2017.
I don't really watch the women's Serie A, so I can't tell you much about how she coaches....but Italian soccer culturally -- to generalize-- tends to be very direct and not very possession oriented so I wouldn't be surprised if she coaches in that mold.
Better context than what I had...thanks! Sounds like the type of off-field persona they'd be looking for. I read that she considers herself an attacking coach first (which, striker duh.) But yeah, others (I think it was a Juve blog) said she was known for her direct style at Juve. Also read that apparently she left Juve because it was expected that the Italian Nat Team coach was to step down and she was going for that job, but looks like it was given to someone else. Don't know details, though.
Anyways, I saw the NWSL link (and her recent follow on IG) and was like well that's kinda only the Thorns, so worthwhile for discussion!
I just rewatched Soph's first yellow to get some context for her second one, and then watched the second one.
Before that, I watched Ryan Williams's behavior when she picked up her second yellow. Didn't argue it and left the field quickly. That definitely matters here too.
Soph got her first yellow just seconds shy of the 90th minute.
Immediately prior to it, Soph pulled up in the 89th minute, looked at the clock instead of dribbling down into the corner, then played the ball back to Muller. Nothing wrong with that.
A few seconds later, she received the ball again, just paused and stood there, and then Chesky blew the whistle (offside?).
At that point, Soph tap-kicked the ball out of bounds instead of leaving it or giving it to NC, and Chesky immediately produces a yellow for timewasting. Interestingly, Soph never looked over at Chesky and didn't argue it at all.
Personally, I think the first yellow was petty, quick, and likely influenced by Chesky's subjective impressions of Smith's actions immediately prior and earlier in the match (Smith and Chesky had words several times, with Smith complaining a lot about getting manhandled out there). Earlier in the 2nd half, on a deadball (I think it was a foul situation), someone for the Thorns punted the ball from one sideline to the other. Chesky didn't issue a yellow on that, which shocked me.
Anyway, I think Chesky was looking for Soph to be guilty of timewasting. I think she'd already had enough of Soph by the 90th minute, and Soph had surely had enough of Chesky in allowing too much physicality.
Refs should be above losing their cool and being inconsistent.
But... having re-watched the second yellow in in-match context now too, including Muller's body language and movement from the front (able to see her face), I stand by my interpretation of what happened there.
As with the first yellow, Chesky again issued it very quickly.
Here's what I also see:
Soph stood and argued in disbelief and didn't leave the field quickly. I don't know if that can escalate a red to a longer suspension, but Soph very clearly didn't mind wasting more time and showing up Chesky after she'd already been hit with two timewasting yellows.
And the whole escapade took up about 90 second It went on from 100:05 to almost 101:40.
The ball went out at 100:05. Chesky issued the second yellow at 100:20. Soph didn't leave field, as ushered by someone wearing a t-shirt with an NWSL Pride shield on the front, until 101:15.
Chesky blew whistle I think at 101:40, issuing a yellow to Narumi. The match ended at 102:52.
Chesky is officially in Drexler v. Jake O'Donnell territory. For all the self-congratulations being spewed forth by the league F.O., they need to address this persistently poor officiating pronto (as well as paying the sort of salaries that might attract more competent folks to the job).
The other one that comes to mind is Scott Foster and Chris Paul.
"There is a lengthy history between Foster and Paul when the two are on the same court together. Foster has officiated 20 of Paul’s playoff games. In those 20 contests, the 12-time All-Star is 3-17; that included 13 consecutive losses at one point during that time span." Paul's team was favored 15 of those 20 games, yet lost by an average of 11.2 points.
And here's how a commissioner should work to resolve such matters: “Whatever the bad blood is between you two, you [Chris Paul and NBA Referee Scott Foster] don’t have to be friends but you both have to go out and do your jobs,” Adam Silver said. “That’s my expectation going forward.”
- A deep dive into why it doesn't *feel* like the Thorns midfield is a major aspect of their attack despite generally pretty good on-ball numbers. I spent a few evenings combing through fbRef/ASA data in detail so I'd love to hear people's thoughts!
- Naomi Girma's all-world performance and how the Spirit still have room to improve despite a hot start.
- Vlatko's YOLO six attacker lineup and why we should be patient with Chicago
Poor Mandy. Imagine playing for a side that receives such a thorough whooping while the opposing keeper catches up on her beauty sleep. Now imagine enduring that in Utah.
Marta seems somehow BETTER. No idea how that's possible but living her best life, to everyone else's peril.
Orlando will be ironically rooting for Thorns Sunday so they can hold on to first place. Their goals scored and goal differential (16!) took giant bumps last night.
She intercepted so many passes last night to create chances high up and was very successfully pressing Utah and doing exactly was you want in a playmaker. Must be nice! Put a better attack around her and give her a good coach, and, well…
What's scary is that this could have been even worse.
Orlando had 21 SoG (out of 28), Haught made 6 saves, and 5 shots were blocked.
Utah kept it respectable for 46 minutes before it became Open Net Friday.
Here's something to watch out for: Orlando scored in the 47th and 48th, right after Betfort and Monaghan subbed on at halftime. They scored again in the 86th and 88th, right after Mozingo subbed on in the 83rd.
Kudos to The Oregonian's Bill Oram for his direct, funny and entirely apt takedown of the league F.O. re: Soph (great headline: "Sophia Smith is the NWSL's best player. Why did the league try so hard to keep her off the field?"). I also very much appreciate his comparing whoever is responsible for this debacle to a hall monitor.
I already prefer the guy to certain of his predecessors (cough, John Canzano, cough).
I know this isn't gonna be popular here, but I'm guessing our FO did a piss-poor job and was insulting to the offical and the league, and so we got slapped down hard for it.
By analogy, courts respond to "frivolous litigation," as defined under state and federal statutory law, with harsh condemnation and punishment.
Here's what the Oregon State Bar says about frivolous litigation (aka "bad faith claim"):
Frivolous is defined as “'without factual basis or well- grounded legal argument.
Here's another take on "frivolous litigation":
In the United States, frivolous litigation is defined as the practice of starting or carrying on lawsuits that have no legal merit or factual basis, and therefore have little chance of winning in court. These types of lawsuits are typically to harass, annoy, embarrass or intimidate the target of the suit.
And one more take on the topic:
"Frivolous litigation may be based on absurd legal theories, may involve a superabundance or repetition of motions or additional suits, may be uncivil or harassing to the court, or may claim extreme remedies. A claim or defense may be frivolous because it had no underlying justification in fact, or because it was not presented with an argument for a reasonable extension or reinterpretation of the law. A claim may be deemed frivolous because existing laws unequivocally prohibit such a claim...."
What are the typical consequences for having been found to have engaged in "frivolous litigation"?
"The consequences of filing a frivolous lawsuit or repeated frivolous lawsuits can include the following: Payment of all attorney fees and other legal fees incurred by the defendant as a result of the frivolous litigation against them. Contempt of court charges. Fines."
Why?
Because the legal claim is made in "bad faith" and so it "wastes the court's and the other parties' time, resources and legal fees." As a result, "sanctions may be imposed by a court upon the party or the lawyer who presents the frivolous defense or claim. The law firm may also be sanctioned, or even held in contempt."
When viewed in that light, the "independent review committee" acted like a quasi-legal body, and they came down hard on the Thorns. Not only did they not buy Smith's excuse (and I personally do not either, as I have said multiple times), but they also treated the FO as having made a bad faith claim, and I'm not sure they're wrong.
The punishment seems incredibly harsh, yes, but courts and legislatures view frivolous litigation with every bit as much of a jaundiced eye.
Yap sure makes you wonder. I don’t like that FO’s get protected due to lack of transparency from the league. Questionable FO things have happened multiple times now for this club…if the league is gonna be so ruthless at least tell us why.
Pretty clear top 4 teams in this league. We’re on the outside looking in. We haven’t lost to any dire teams yet, but there’s def been some points left on the table. In the second half of the season, we have 5 games against teams directly above or below us in my tiers (as opposed to 7 in the first half.) But also, we’ve played the bottom two tiers more in the first half (5 games) than we will in the second (3 games.) The glut of our games in the second half will come from my tier 4 (5 games) and tier 1 (5 games.) Doing this helps me visualize competition for the second half of the season, though I could’ve probably compressed it a little bit (like tier 3/4, or 3/4/5 even, but I guess I just went with initial gut instinct and memory- which ain’t perfect.) Although, with Olympics and summer transfers, team composition and quality of play can really make things vary a whole lot. Additionally we have multiple cups and many of those are midweek games between regular ones.
Tiers by gut feeling but not necessarily data (W-L-D):
This is pretty much where I thought we'd be at this point- Slightly below the best, but clearly better than most of the league. I'd say the top tier fully healthy is KC and Gotham and I'd put Orlando, Portland, and Washington in the same tier below.
Gotta build the roster out now over the next offseason! They weren't gonna fix everything in one year, but they do have to keep building.
No way to know, but I do wonder where we would stand if we had started the season with the kind of energy and style introduced by the coaching change. I think there's a real chance that we would have pulled 7 to 9 points out of those first 4 matches, instead of 1. Then of course there's the 2 left on the table in Seattle. Add 9 to 11 points to our total, and we're clearly sitting in 1st.
I think they probably would have picked up a few more points (Louisville stands out, maybe the Courage), but I tend to agree with ABell that Gale has really just brought the team back to stability --which is an achievement after what we saw in the first month -- more than legitimately improved the tactics beyond the double pivot tweak. I don't know that 27 points instead of 23 would make me feel all that much different about where they're at on a macro level, even though they'd definitely be more in the shield race than they are now.
Yeah, I don't think there's any way we win against KC. Maybe we get a few more points out of the other games...Racing as mentioned, but I don't think it alters things too much. Gale's steadied our defense, but again I haven't see more than 45' of good play from him yet, so I agree about your point from a macro level. I'd rather see good play building and not quite get the results, rather than get results despite mid play, and I think it's still been more of the latter over the 10 or so games we've seen from him. I couldn't see us being more than maybe 4 points up from where we are now. It's hard to say, though.
Yeah, unfortunately since we've been near the top of the table for several years now....I can really only describe it as a downgrade....I feel like we've kinda been on that track, but I really hope this summer/offseason we see some significant moves to get back on the right track. We have the foundation to be a very top team, but we need some holes filled both with starters and with first subs/overall depth. I hope KK knows the difference between a depth player and an actual starter for a top team in this league. I'm very curious how she'll handle Beckie's contract after this season...when she signed her, they paid a ton of money for her. I remember it reported as one of the highest transfers and/or salaries in the league at the time....and that is just not the player Beckie was, or has been for us. They also had to first pay Racing for her rights. Anyways, I'm trying to remain patient lol.
I disagree about us being in the same tier as Washington and Orlando, though. I think you could probably fairly put either below KC and Gotham just because neither team has the depth that KC/Gotham has, but I still put them both above us, for multiple reasons. They've both still got multiple int'l slots left and they're doing really well with journeywoman NWSL players and their rookies. For us, I don't think we've drafted well over the last several seasons, and our journeywomen players are not nearly as effective. Generally for us, we don't have those types of players. I also think we've overused our int'l spots on some mid players and have been generally wasteful with them and so we don't have nearly as much room to improve the roster as these other already very good teams. Lastly, both teams are far better coached than we are (and they have knowledgeable GM's and $$$)...so yeah I still think we're clearly beneath all 4. But I agree based on having good coaches AND insane depth...KC and Gotham are clearly at the very top.
The Thorns are at the same level or better than Orlando and Washington in almost every metric (especially since the first four weeks), have beaten Washington, and probably should have gotten a point out of Orlando without Smith. Washington has similar depth problems to the Thorns- They don’t have a left wing and had to play Hershfelt at RB this weekend.
Not to psychoanalyze Thorns fans too much but I think it feels like we’re a tier below both because:
- We watch and root for the Thorns and see their warts every week.
- Orlando and Washington are clearly well run and on the way up after some lean years while the Thorns were at the top for so long and no longer are, though I do think the Thorns are on the way up too.
yeah, fwiw the Thorns are at .51 xGD/90, Orlando at .58 and Gotham at .45. Spirit are at .63 and KC are at a whopping 1.39, which would be the best total since the Courage's 1.34 xGD/90 in 2019.
Which to my mind: there is one truly elite team in this league, there are four good to very good teams, and the Thorns are in the bottom half of the very good teams
Yeah KC's really freakin good. They've already scored more goals this year (33) than the shield-winning SD team (31) did all of last season lmao. They've just dropped points in some truly stupid games because they can't seem to defend corners to save their life and are now without their best defender.
(I still have Gotham up there with KC because they've had the worst health in the league and are still a top four team, and their defense is awesome)
They paid $75k + change to City for Beckie. Regardless of her salary, from what I’ve heard she’s leaving end of the season anyway, so not sure it’s something to worry about.
I think they also paid like 100k to Racing just for her discovery rights. Regardless, including her salary it was an overpay for what we've seen in her 2 healthy seasons. I was never worried, though, more just curious given her connections in the club. I think she's great winger depth, but I think we need a starter with more production. Interesting about her leaving, though....that surprises me. Where is she interested in? I can't imagine she'd head to play in Canada for the league's first season...?
You don’t have to pay for discovery rights on top of player rights. That’s never been a thing. It’s one or the other.
She’s looking to be closer to the east coast as that’s where her fiancé is based, and she has a broadcasting contract with TSN in Toronto. She also has interest in Europe which honestly isn’t actually that far away from the east coast of the US as opposed to Portland if she goes back to England. She loves Thorns so she might stay - I don’t see her going anywhere else on the west coast for example - but there’s factors that will likely push a move.
No, I didn't say it was both. They just had to pay Racing Louisville for her playing rights because she was on their discovery list...it was 75k + 25k additionally based on performance (see the release about it below.) That, in addition to her salary was all I said. But yes, they also had to complete the transfer from City, which according to the Thorns release, was in exchange for more allocation money but the number wasn't given there.
I'm surprised you would move Orlando down a tier. They seem legitimately excellent, to the point where I have them as favorites for the Shield. That all changes if Banda gets injured, but if she doesn't they're quite good this year.
I love Orlando and I don't have any real issues with putting them in the top tier, but they don't have the same type of league-conquering depth as KC and Gotham do imo. Hines is my clear COTY though; he's done remarkable things with this roster given a ton of their key pieces were the same players on the really bad Orlando teams of the past.
I'm 50-50 between Gotham and KC for shield favorites right now, but the great thing about the NWSL is that any of the top four (and I wouldn't be mad if you tossed a healthy Thorns in there as well, though I think that's a long shot) have a real chance.
The only thing that gives me pause about Gotham, despite having insane depth, is the Olympics and then all the other games and tournaments they have scheduled. It's always very curious to me that Rose Lavelle seemingly pops up just before a major tournament and just starts killin' it...and then afterwards, she comes back broken and/or doesn't play much or with the same intensity. I think the same could be said for many of their US players, because many of them are bubble-ish players who have things to prove to Emma to be picked for that roster after the Olympics? I dunno, I can just see all of those players really fall off or not even play as much post tournament. Crystal really fell off here after the WC, and same with Rose (who again popped up just for the postseason games lol.) It's the only thing that gives me pause about Gotham in the second half of the season...also, their injuries are piling up.
Of the current top 4, I'd put Orlando as most likely to drop back, followed by Washington, then KC, then Gotham. Gotham came together much quicker than I thought they would, and they've really benefited from their depth of quality/quality of depth.
I think Orlando's style of play and tactical set up is better than the Thorns but like the Thorns they're a completely different team without their elite striker.
I'd be fine with that also, they've just seemed worse than, say NC for example, who have a lot of nice play and are well-coached but lack personnel in the attack. SD maybe has more potential or a higher ceiling bc they have a lot of depth, but they just look way outta sorts compared to their talent. I don't know wtf happened there...
Today, the NFL, in a surprise announcement declared that while coaches will still be given two challenge flags per game, they will henceforth be red ribbons attached to grenade pins, one grenade per coach's pocket.
"It is now up to the coach to ponder 'Do I really, really wish to challenge the referee?' knowing the possible consequences." stated Commissioner Roger Goodell. "It's for the good of the game, and the League as a whole."
While we're all focusing on the NWSL league rules, what power the NWSLPA wields, and litigiousness, here's a question I've been pondering this season...
Does the NWSL have policies regarding drug testing and use of PEDs?
Without naming names -- because that's not my point -- there are some players currently in the league who have undergone some *remarkable* transformations in their muscle mass gains, not just in their calves and thighs but also in the upper bodies. Transformations occurring either while playing in the NWSL or prior to coming to the NWSL, but in any case occurring in a relatively short amount of time.
It doesn't appear that the NWSL has any history of suspending players for PED use, and might not even test for them. If the latter is true, that's a problem.
Well honestly who would be surprised....honestly wouldn't be the first time KK didn't know the rules and it fucked over this club.
It's hard to know without more info, though. I get wanting to appeal if your star player says she truly didn't mean it, but also, it she knew the rules? It's not smart at all if you wanna mitigate very harsh consequences...
Wonder if the Bhathals were involved here. We've certainly seen moments when executives and owners overstep their bounds and get punished for it. We've seen refs issue red cards to execs after matches, and I think they've even punished owners for after-the-match behavior.
All this seems like a "protecting the officials, protecting the integrity of the game" type of punishment. Which would be fine if the officiating weren't so comically inconsistent and sometimes downright bad.
I mean honestly, why would they be involved? It’s something that a perfectly competent GM *should* be able to handle. In their moves so far, they seem to be pretty hands off, and have said themselves they’d “rather just hire folks to do the work that they don’t know.” They don’t really seem like the micromanaging type (even if they should be in KK’s case because she needs oversight.) Closest I could see them involved is if they were asked if it was ok to pursue the appeal…which they may have given their ok without knowing anything more about the consequences and allowing their GM to handle it.
Honestly, I'm completely on KK's (or whoever made the appeal on behalf of the Thorns) side here. If she knew the rules and broke them to stand up for her player, good on her. If she didn't, I'm more inclined to blame the NWSL's lack of transparency in process. And that's not to mention that it's not just the GM who makes the decision on whether to appeal or not.
(Fwiw, can you think of a time we've really needed to successfully appeal a decision?)
Yeah, no you're right. I was just thinking in risk management terms....but hearing that Soph insists it was an accident makes it even more ridiculous the league came down so hard. Literally every club would back their star player if they said the same. And there's been no precedent for this in the league so how'd they know it'd be so harshly punished....still wish we had more insight into it all.
The article I saw on OregonLive said that the PA, not the team, appealed the red card. Is that wrong? If it was the PA, how does it make sense to punish the team? (Stupid question really, cuz none of this makes much sense.)
No, the club appealed the red per normal avenues.....the PA appealed a part of the draconian punishment that the league handed down (in which Soph was fined double and would miss an additional match.) So, Soph won't miss a second match, thanks to the PA, but the rest of the harsh punishment stands. The club won't be able to appeal another card for 2 damn years, along with other terms of their punishment for the club.
If they don't want appeals, they should just change the rules.
Really, though, I think they think Soph was laughing at them (well, at Chesky anyway), which I just don't believe is true. And it just makes them look petty.
Anyway, the thing I care about for the moment is that she'll be available against KC, so yay for that.
There have been some very good comments here, but I don't think any of us can be called a fair broker or a party with no bias. Many of us thought she didn't do anything wrong; some like me thought it was thoughtless and possibly unintentional, but the punishment was harsh, and others thought she was at fault, but a red card was unwarranted. I don't know if any of our opinions would be given a lot of weight. especially since almost everybody here is totally irate about the rules and the NWSL levying such a harsh measures.
I am not one to post negative thoughts generally, but I am on the record here below calling the NWSL, "harsh, stupid and lazy." No way to win people over to your view.
So I am hoping the people who write about the NWSL; Equalizer, The Athletic and the major bloggers have something to say. and that I think would be effective.
The issue is that wherever you stand on her transgression (whether she meant it or not etc), the subsequent punishment is nonsense. It's a bad rule, straight up.
I diagnosed and broke down in minute detail Soph's hand and arm movement and concluded that it was intentional, and wrote that several times. But it should be no more than ejection from the remainder of the NC match and suspension for the ensuing match, that's it. Why is this still going on???
Didn't see yesterday's match, but it sounds like it went exactly as I imagined it would without Smith, Coffey, Weaver, and Moultrie (and Obaze too, though Hubly has mostly played well since her return to the starting XI).
We're at the halfway point of the season, sitting 6 points behind 1st, 5 points behind 3rd, and 1 point behind 4th.
Given that we lost 3 of the first 4 matches, it's good on us that we've made up as much ground as we have.
Alas, Gotham have recovered from their own shaky start --going 6-0-1 after starting 1-2-2. They've better weathered their slew of injuries, and they still have a match in hand.
Although the outcome of a 26-match season does not come down to a single moment, I am going on record here to say that Sophia's actions-on-the-bench at the end of the NC match likely cost us 2 points yesterday, and that 2 points might well be the difference in points between finishing 4th and securing a home playoff match or failing to do so.
I see no reason to think that KC, Orlando, or Washington will come back to the pack.
I see no reason to think that Gotham will falter.
I see no reason to think that we're going to perform even better than we have over the past 9 matches (7-1-1).
However, I do think some club or clubs below us -- probably SD -- are likely to get on a run of good form.
Alright, here’s a distilled version of my big issue with the NWSL ruling beyond the fact that it’s bizarrely punitive:
“Frivolous” is a subjective term. By attaching an extreme punishment to a subjective term, you’re not being clear with your rules. I understand the goal is to dissuade appeals of obviously correct decisions, but this is an ABSURD, bush-league way of doing that.
Lastly, because I’m seeing a lot of blame (mostly from Rifer) being put on the Thorns for deciding to appeal:
Yeah, the risk management wasn’t great given the rule in place, but going after that aspect of the situation deflects blame from the entity which deserves it, which is the NWSL. The Thorns probably felt like they were protecting their star player, who gets targeted every week without protection from refs and probably told them she didn’t mean to do it. It’s a perfectly reasonable appeal under any circumstance but the one the NWSL curated and putting the burden of fault on the Thorns seems a little victim-blame-y to me, to the extent a soccer org can truly be a victim.
Also: The whole POINT of an appeal is that it’s subjective. The right to appeal is *because* referee decisions are subjective. Yet, somehow, the league has a rule that is intended to put the fear of god into a team thinking of filing an appeal just because they don’t want to have the disciplinary committee spend a few extra minutes on a denial? If your goal is to dissuade teams from making any appeal at all, I suppose this is one way to achieve it!
Just when I think this league is starting to get their act together…. JFC
Nadia Nadim just retweeted a similar sentiment re: the league getting their act together...
Probably didn't help that like the entirety of twitter, including all woso media/journalists/"journalists" loudly assumed Soph's motives after the fact and were making all kinds of assumptions about her character. It was amazing how few people thought it could actually be unintentional. I hope Soph goes god mode this weekend.
Nadia's been on the record for some time calling out the NWSL as a "joke." She's not wrong.
100%
I can see how it looked intentional, might very well have been intentional despite what I and others think, and it's certainly funnier if it was intentional....but I've seen red card appeals for obvious violent conduct and they weren't deemed frivolous!
No, frivolous is not a subjective term. It has a legal meaning throughout federal and state law. But... unless it's been clearly defined in the NWSL's rules on what counts as a "frivolous" challenge, you could well challenge that conclusion and criterion. Especially if it is at all subject to collective bargaining as pertains to players.
The established legal definition is “when the claim lacks any arguable basis in either law or fact.” Even if the NWSL is using that definition (it is not), the appeal itself isn’t frivolous.
But again, the definition or lackthereof is only one of the problems. The main issue is that this punishment exists at all. It’s disproportionate to an excessive scale.
Yeah, there needs to be a stipulative definition here. "Frivolous" is not self-evident.
Yes EXACTLY.
I have generally agreed with AB4 more than anyone else on this board. More likes than anyone else. But I really have to disagree here. This red card situation isn’t anything like an appeal for violent conduct. This harsh a penalty, upgrading the suspension and essentially a fine to the team, is the result of Smith showing up a ref, and the team going along with it by way of an appeal. In no way is this a defense of Chesky. She’s awful. But the league can’t have players showing up the ref. Given the rule already in place, the appeal was a dumb move by the team.
She was, at worst, wasting time. That’s not showing up the ref. Also, who gives a fuck? The penalty (a yellow card and subsequent red) is the penalty for the action the referee saw. They didn’t upgrade the suspension because of Smith’s actions, they upgraded it because of a shitty rule that is only in place because the league is too lazy to review appeals / doesn't want their referees getting questioned.
So yeah. It probably wasn’t very smart to appeal given the rule. But the vitriol should go to the league, not the the Thorns, because the rule is objectively bad. There's probably a greater societal lesson in here somewhere, but we have to stop focusing the blame on the entities subject to the shitty laws instead of those who created and enforce said laws. Chesky, for instance, will never be punished for her consistent awfulness....but the Thorns and Soph will because she got frustrated after getting punted around the field for 90 minutes.
True. And this is a league where there's a lot of (pardon the gendered phrase) on-field bitching about calls and non-calls. Lots of players sitting, standing, or wandering around with their arms above their heads, making a Y of their bodies while play continues. Yes, the officiating ABSOLUTELY needs to be better and more consistent, but every player knows you're not going to accomplish that by complaining during the match or showing up the ref. Period.
True, regarding officiating. Showing up the ref depends on whether you believe it was intentional or not. Fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Intentional or not, the league can’t risk the appearance of showing up the ref. That would make NWSL a bush league. In the end, the player’s appeal has Smith back on the field Sunday. The entire episode was dumb from beginning to end. Hope it’s over.
Appeals of disciplinary actions are *routine* in every other major sports league I follow. What is even the point of this rule that punishes teams for appealing? If I'm the NWSLPA, I'm calling up my friends in NFLPA and MLBPA and figuring out how to get this awful rule tossed in the trash in the next CBA.
I'm in the camp that fully believes Smith wasted time on purpose and I love that she was carded for it. I can't stand when players do this shit. But if you're not allowed to make your case dispassionately after the fact without risking a MASSIVE punishment, why even have an appeals process at all?
https://x.com/AbbyDahlkemper/status/1803824199879815630
Speaking of bad refereeing, I couldn't BELIEVE this wasn't a red in game. She went to VAR and everything!
I was absolutely shocked also. Like, clear crunching of the ankle! Game-changing also, in hindsight. If Gotham go down to 10, I doubt they win that game.
Abby Dahlkemper has a frickin' point. Does raising the question on Twitter warrant a league sanction?
Nah, only if she submits a frivolous appeal of the non-call ;)
What I was about to say lmao.
Hey, I posted another coach-watch candidate (but one actually linked to the NWSL, which prob means the Thorns) on the newest thread, but I'm interested in your opinion. I know you've been inclined to favor Euro coaches (and not necessarily just big names)...but would love to know what you think about Guarino.
All I know about her is that she's an ex-player who was pretty big in growing women's soccer in Italy after her playing career ended. I remember her being in the news every so often when she took over the Juventus job in 2017.
I don't really watch the women's Serie A, so I can't tell you much about how she coaches....but Italian soccer culturally -- to generalize-- tends to be very direct and not very possession oriented so I wouldn't be surprised if she coaches in that mold.
Better context than what I had...thanks! Sounds like the type of off-field persona they'd be looking for. I read that she considers herself an attacking coach first (which, striker duh.) But yeah, others (I think it was a Juve blog) said she was known for her direct style at Juve. Also read that apparently she left Juve because it was expected that the Italian Nat Team coach was to step down and she was going for that job, but looks like it was given to someone else. Don't know details, though.
Anyways, I saw the NWSL link (and her recent follow on IG) and was like well that's kinda only the Thorns, so worthwhile for discussion!
I wonder if Inside Video Review will cover it. I don't think week 13 is up yet.
I just rewatched Soph's first yellow to get some context for her second one, and then watched the second one.
Before that, I watched Ryan Williams's behavior when she picked up her second yellow. Didn't argue it and left the field quickly. That definitely matters here too.
Soph got her first yellow just seconds shy of the 90th minute.
Immediately prior to it, Soph pulled up in the 89th minute, looked at the clock instead of dribbling down into the corner, then played the ball back to Muller. Nothing wrong with that.
A few seconds later, she received the ball again, just paused and stood there, and then Chesky blew the whistle (offside?).
At that point, Soph tap-kicked the ball out of bounds instead of leaving it or giving it to NC, and Chesky immediately produces a yellow for timewasting. Interestingly, Soph never looked over at Chesky and didn't argue it at all.
Personally, I think the first yellow was petty, quick, and likely influenced by Chesky's subjective impressions of Smith's actions immediately prior and earlier in the match (Smith and Chesky had words several times, with Smith complaining a lot about getting manhandled out there). Earlier in the 2nd half, on a deadball (I think it was a foul situation), someone for the Thorns punted the ball from one sideline to the other. Chesky didn't issue a yellow on that, which shocked me.
Anyway, I think Chesky was looking for Soph to be guilty of timewasting. I think she'd already had enough of Soph by the 90th minute, and Soph had surely had enough of Chesky in allowing too much physicality.
Refs should be above losing their cool and being inconsistent.
But... having re-watched the second yellow in in-match context now too, including Muller's body language and movement from the front (able to see her face), I stand by my interpretation of what happened there.
As with the first yellow, Chesky again issued it very quickly.
Here's what I also see:
Soph stood and argued in disbelief and didn't leave the field quickly. I don't know if that can escalate a red to a longer suspension, but Soph very clearly didn't mind wasting more time and showing up Chesky after she'd already been hit with two timewasting yellows.
And the whole escapade took up about 90 second It went on from 100:05 to almost 101:40.
The ball went out at 100:05. Chesky issued the second yellow at 100:20. Soph didn't leave field, as ushered by someone wearing a t-shirt with an NWSL Pride shield on the front, until 101:15.
Chesky blew whistle I think at 101:40, issuing a yellow to Narumi. The match ended at 102:52.
Cooler heads did not prevail that night.
Chesky is officially in Drexler v. Jake O'Donnell territory. For all the self-congratulations being spewed forth by the league F.O., they need to address this persistently poor officiating pronto (as well as paying the sort of salaries that might attract more competent folks to the job).
Ya know, I was thinking of ol' Jake.
The other one that comes to mind is Scott Foster and Chris Paul.
"There is a lengthy history between Foster and Paul when the two are on the same court together. Foster has officiated 20 of Paul’s playoff games. In those 20 contests, the 12-time All-Star is 3-17; that included 13 consecutive losses at one point during that time span." Paul's team was favored 15 of those 20 games, yet lost by an average of 11.2 points.
And here's how a commissioner should work to resolve such matters: “Whatever the bad blood is between you two, you [Chris Paul and NBA Referee Scott Foster] don’t have to be friends but you both have to go out and do your jobs,” Adam Silver said. “That’s my expectation going forward.”
Week 13 Recap! Featuring:
- A deep dive into why it doesn't *feel* like the Thorns midfield is a major aspect of their attack despite generally pretty good on-ball numbers. I spent a few evenings combing through fbRef/ASA data in detail so I'd love to hear people's thoughts!
- Naomi Girma's all-world performance and how the Spirit still have room to improve despite a hot start.
- Vlatko's YOLO six attacker lineup and why we should be patient with Chicago
https://www.theeaststandnwsl.com/post/nwsl-week-13-recap-chicago-frustrates-kc-and-the-worst-cascadia-derby-of-all-time
Poor Mandy. Imagine playing for a side that receives such a thorough whooping while the opposing keeper catches up on her beauty sleep. Now imagine enduring that in Utah.
Could bring one to binge a Biscuit Beignets bucket from Le Barril de Cracker
https://www.crackerbarrel.com/catering/desserts/biscuit-beignets?productid=40482494
Cracker Barrell: Biscuit Beignets served up by the dozen
Utah Royals: Goals served up by the half-dozen
Both come with butter pecan sauce "for dipping"
And then imagine having to play Portland after that lol. Although, I don’t think we have the horses to deliver the same whooping.
I know, Sinc can start delivering 2nd half bangers like Marta, with her brace.
I'll come in again.
I wish it were true but Marta and Sinc exist on two different planets right now in terms of ability lol.
Marta seems somehow BETTER. No idea how that's possible but living her best life, to everyone else's peril.
Orlando will be ironically rooting for Thorns Sunday so they can hold on to first place. Their goals scored and goal differential (16!) took giant bumps last night.
She intercepted so many passes last night to create chances high up and was very successfully pressing Utah and doing exactly was you want in a playmaker. Must be nice! Put a better attack around her and give her a good coach, and, well…
What's scary is that this could have been even worse.
Orlando had 21 SoG (out of 28), Haught made 6 saves, and 5 shots were blocked.
Utah kept it respectable for 46 minutes before it became Open Net Friday.
Here's something to watch out for: Orlando scored in the 47th and 48th, right after Betfort and Monaghan subbed on at halftime. They scored again in the 86th and 88th, right after Mozingo subbed on in the 83rd.
Kudos to The Oregonian's Bill Oram for his direct, funny and entirely apt takedown of the league F.O. re: Soph (great headline: "Sophia Smith is the NWSL's best player. Why did the league try so hard to keep her off the field?"). I also very much appreciate his comparing whoever is responsible for this debacle to a hall monitor.
I already prefer the guy to certain of his predecessors (cough, John Canzano, cough).
Whatever happened to ol "Bald Face Truth," anyway?
I believe he's gone to an online platform where he continues to tell life-long Blazers, Beavers, and Ducks fans how they really feel about things.
That must have been one sorry-assed appeal.
I know this isn't gonna be popular here, but I'm guessing our FO did a piss-poor job and was insulting to the offical and the league, and so we got slapped down hard for it.
By analogy, courts respond to "frivolous litigation," as defined under state and federal statutory law, with harsh condemnation and punishment.
Here's what the Oregon State Bar says about frivolous litigation (aka "bad faith claim"):
Frivolous is defined as “'without factual basis or well- grounded legal argument.
Here's another take on "frivolous litigation":
In the United States, frivolous litigation is defined as the practice of starting or carrying on lawsuits that have no legal merit or factual basis, and therefore have little chance of winning in court. These types of lawsuits are typically to harass, annoy, embarrass or intimidate the target of the suit.
And one more take on the topic:
"Frivolous litigation may be based on absurd legal theories, may involve a superabundance or repetition of motions or additional suits, may be uncivil or harassing to the court, or may claim extreme remedies. A claim or defense may be frivolous because it had no underlying justification in fact, or because it was not presented with an argument for a reasonable extension or reinterpretation of the law. A claim may be deemed frivolous because existing laws unequivocally prohibit such a claim...."
What are the typical consequences for having been found to have engaged in "frivolous litigation"?
"The consequences of filing a frivolous lawsuit or repeated frivolous lawsuits can include the following: Payment of all attorney fees and other legal fees incurred by the defendant as a result of the frivolous litigation against them. Contempt of court charges. Fines."
Why?
Because the legal claim is made in "bad faith" and so it "wastes the court's and the other parties' time, resources and legal fees." As a result, "sanctions may be imposed by a court upon the party or the lawyer who presents the frivolous defense or claim. The law firm may also be sanctioned, or even held in contempt."
When viewed in that light, the "independent review committee" acted like a quasi-legal body, and they came down hard on the Thorns. Not only did they not buy Smith's excuse (and I personally do not either, as I have said multiple times), but they also treated the FO as having made a bad faith claim, and I'm not sure they're wrong.
The punishment seems incredibly harsh, yes, but courts and legislatures view frivolous litigation with every bit as much of a jaundiced eye.
Yap sure makes you wonder. I don’t like that FO’s get protected due to lack of transparency from the league. Questionable FO things have happened multiple times now for this club…if the league is gonna be so ruthless at least tell us why.
I blame the Thorns for my burgeoning prejudice against Canadian soccer.
Pretty clear top 4 teams in this league. We’re on the outside looking in. We haven’t lost to any dire teams yet, but there’s def been some points left on the table. In the second half of the season, we have 5 games against teams directly above or below us in my tiers (as opposed to 7 in the first half.) But also, we’ve played the bottom two tiers more in the first half (5 games) than we will in the second (3 games.) The glut of our games in the second half will come from my tier 4 (5 games) and tier 1 (5 games.) Doing this helps me visualize competition for the second half of the season, though I could’ve probably compressed it a little bit (like tier 3/4, or 3/4/5 even, but I guess I just went with initial gut instinct and memory- which ain’t perfect.) Although, with Olympics and summer transfers, team composition and quality of play can really make things vary a whole lot. Additionally we have multiple cups and many of those are midweek games between regular ones.
Tiers by gut feeling but not necessarily data (W-L-D):
1: KC, Orlando, Spirit, Gotham (record against: 1-3-0)
2: Thorns
3: Chicago, NC (record against: 2-1-0)
4: Racing, Angel City, SD Wave (record against: 0-0-1)
5: Houston, Bay (record against: 3-0-0)
6: Seattle, Utah. (record against:1-0-1)
This is pretty much where I thought we'd be at this point- Slightly below the best, but clearly better than most of the league. I'd say the top tier fully healthy is KC and Gotham and I'd put Orlando, Portland, and Washington in the same tier below.
Gotta build the roster out now over the next offseason! They weren't gonna fix everything in one year, but they do have to keep building.
No way to know, but I do wonder where we would stand if we had started the season with the kind of energy and style introduced by the coaching change. I think there's a real chance that we would have pulled 7 to 9 points out of those first 4 matches, instead of 1. Then of course there's the 2 left on the table in Seattle. Add 9 to 11 points to our total, and we're clearly sitting in 1st.
I think they probably would have picked up a few more points (Louisville stands out, maybe the Courage), but I tend to agree with ABell that Gale has really just brought the team back to stability --which is an achievement after what we saw in the first month -- more than legitimately improved the tactics beyond the double pivot tweak. I don't know that 27 points instead of 23 would make me feel all that much different about where they're at on a macro level, even though they'd definitely be more in the shield race than they are now.
Yeah, I don't think there's any way we win against KC. Maybe we get a few more points out of the other games...Racing as mentioned, but I don't think it alters things too much. Gale's steadied our defense, but again I haven't see more than 45' of good play from him yet, so I agree about your point from a macro level. I'd rather see good play building and not quite get the results, rather than get results despite mid play, and I think it's still been more of the latter over the 10 or so games we've seen from him. I couldn't see us being more than maybe 4 points up from where we are now. It's hard to say, though.
Yeah, unfortunately since we've been near the top of the table for several years now....I can really only describe it as a downgrade....I feel like we've kinda been on that track, but I really hope this summer/offseason we see some significant moves to get back on the right track. We have the foundation to be a very top team, but we need some holes filled both with starters and with first subs/overall depth. I hope KK knows the difference between a depth player and an actual starter for a top team in this league. I'm very curious how she'll handle Beckie's contract after this season...when she signed her, they paid a ton of money for her. I remember it reported as one of the highest transfers and/or salaries in the league at the time....and that is just not the player Beckie was, or has been for us. They also had to first pay Racing for her rights. Anyways, I'm trying to remain patient lol.
I disagree about us being in the same tier as Washington and Orlando, though. I think you could probably fairly put either below KC and Gotham just because neither team has the depth that KC/Gotham has, but I still put them both above us, for multiple reasons. They've both still got multiple int'l slots left and they're doing really well with journeywoman NWSL players and their rookies. For us, I don't think we've drafted well over the last several seasons, and our journeywomen players are not nearly as effective. Generally for us, we don't have those types of players. I also think we've overused our int'l spots on some mid players and have been generally wasteful with them and so we don't have nearly as much room to improve the roster as these other already very good teams. Lastly, both teams are far better coached than we are (and they have knowledgeable GM's and $$$)...so yeah I still think we're clearly beneath all 4. But I agree based on having good coaches AND insane depth...KC and Gotham are clearly at the very top.
The Thorns are at the same level or better than Orlando and Washington in almost every metric (especially since the first four weeks), have beaten Washington, and probably should have gotten a point out of Orlando without Smith. Washington has similar depth problems to the Thorns- They don’t have a left wing and had to play Hershfelt at RB this weekend.
Not to psychoanalyze Thorns fans too much but I think it feels like we’re a tier below both because:
- We watch and root for the Thorns and see their warts every week.
- Orlando and Washington are clearly well run and on the way up after some lean years while the Thorns were at the top for so long and no longer are, though I do think the Thorns are on the way up too.
yeah, fwiw the Thorns are at .51 xGD/90, Orlando at .58 and Gotham at .45. Spirit are at .63 and KC are at a whopping 1.39, which would be the best total since the Courage's 1.34 xGD/90 in 2019.
Which to my mind: there is one truly elite team in this league, there are four good to very good teams, and the Thorns are in the bottom half of the very good teams
Yeah KC's really freakin good. They've already scored more goals this year (33) than the shield-winning SD team (31) did all of last season lmao. They've just dropped points in some truly stupid games because they can't seem to defend corners to save their life and are now without their best defender.
(I still have Gotham up there with KC because they've had the worst health in the league and are still a top four team, and their defense is awesome)
They paid $75k + change to City for Beckie. Regardless of her salary, from what I’ve heard she’s leaving end of the season anyway, so not sure it’s something to worry about.
I think they also paid like 100k to Racing just for her discovery rights. Regardless, including her salary it was an overpay for what we've seen in her 2 healthy seasons. I was never worried, though, more just curious given her connections in the club. I think she's great winger depth, but I think we need a starter with more production. Interesting about her leaving, though....that surprises me. Where is she interested in? I can't imagine she'd head to play in Canada for the league's first season...?
You don’t have to pay for discovery rights on top of player rights. That’s never been a thing. It’s one or the other.
She’s looking to be closer to the east coast as that’s where her fiancé is based, and she has a broadcasting contract with TSN in Toronto. She also has interest in Europe which honestly isn’t actually that far away from the east coast of the US as opposed to Portland if she goes back to England. She loves Thorns so she might stay - I don’t see her going anywhere else on the west coast for example - but there’s factors that will likely push a move.
Trying to conceptualize who on the east coast needs her…maybe North Carolina?
No, I didn't say it was both. They just had to pay Racing Louisville for her playing rights because she was on their discovery list...it was 75k + 25k additionally based on performance (see the release about it below.) That, in addition to her salary was all I said. But yes, they also had to complete the transfer from City, which according to the Thorns release, was in exchange for more allocation money but the number wasn't given there.
https://www.timbers.com/thornsfc/news/thorns-fc-sign-forward-janine-beckie-to-three-year-contract
https://www.racingloufc.com/news/2022/04/01/racing-portland-thorns-trade-for-beckies-playing-rights/
Her partner is in Miami, no? Yeah, I mean it's a rough go if he's based on the East coast...and a flight to western Europe isn't terrible.
I'm surprised you would move Orlando down a tier. They seem legitimately excellent, to the point where I have them as favorites for the Shield. That all changes if Banda gets injured, but if she doesn't they're quite good this year.
I love Orlando and I don't have any real issues with putting them in the top tier, but they don't have the same type of league-conquering depth as KC and Gotham do imo. Hines is my clear COTY though; he's done remarkable things with this roster given a ton of their key pieces were the same players on the really bad Orlando teams of the past.
I'm 50-50 between Gotham and KC for shield favorites right now, but the great thing about the NWSL is that any of the top four (and I wouldn't be mad if you tossed a healthy Thorns in there as well, though I think that's a long shot) have a real chance.
The only thing that gives me pause about Gotham, despite having insane depth, is the Olympics and then all the other games and tournaments they have scheduled. It's always very curious to me that Rose Lavelle seemingly pops up just before a major tournament and just starts killin' it...and then afterwards, she comes back broken and/or doesn't play much or with the same intensity. I think the same could be said for many of their US players, because many of them are bubble-ish players who have things to prove to Emma to be picked for that roster after the Olympics? I dunno, I can just see all of those players really fall off or not even play as much post tournament. Crystal really fell off here after the WC, and same with Rose (who again popped up just for the postseason games lol.) It's the only thing that gives me pause about Gotham in the second half of the season...also, their injuries are piling up.
Of the current top 4, I'd put Orlando as most likely to drop back, followed by Washington, then KC, then Gotham. Gotham came together much quicker than I thought they would, and they've really benefited from their depth of quality/quality of depth.
I think Orlando's style of play and tactical set up is better than the Thorns but like the Thorns they're a completely different team without their elite striker.
Agree with your tiers, though I might have SD one tier higher with Chicago and NC.
I'd be fine with that also, they've just seemed worse than, say NC for example, who have a lot of nice play and are well-coached but lack personnel in the attack. SD maybe has more potential or a higher ceiling bc they have a lot of depth, but they just look way outta sorts compared to their talent. I don't know wtf happened there...
Today, the NFL, in a surprise announcement declared that while coaches will still be given two challenge flags per game, they will henceforth be red ribbons attached to grenade pins, one grenade per coach's pocket.
"It is now up to the coach to ponder 'Do I really, really wish to challenge the referee?' knowing the possible consequences." stated Commissioner Roger Goodell. "It's for the good of the game, and the League as a whole."
While we're all focusing on the NWSL league rules, what power the NWSLPA wields, and litigiousness, here's a question I've been pondering this season...
Does the NWSL have policies regarding drug testing and use of PEDs?
Without naming names -- because that's not my point -- there are some players currently in the league who have undergone some *remarkable* transformations in their muscle mass gains, not just in their calves and thighs but also in the upper bodies. Transformations occurring either while playing in the NWSL or prior to coming to the NWSL, but in any case occurring in a relatively short amount of time.
It doesn't appear that the NWSL has any history of suspending players for PED use, and might not even test for them. If the latter is true, that's a problem.
Name names!
Nope. Not the point.
It’s my birthday
Happy Birthday!
Nope.
I gotta wonder if someone (named KK?) of the Thorns side got belligerent during the appeal process and the NWSL decided to get vindictive
Well honestly who would be surprised....honestly wouldn't be the first time KK didn't know the rules and it fucked over this club.
It's hard to know without more info, though. I get wanting to appeal if your star player says she truly didn't mean it, but also, it she knew the rules? It's not smart at all if you wanna mitigate very harsh consequences...
It definitely has the feel of more going on behind the scenes than we’re aware of, especially since the PA appeal was released almost simultaneously
Would be nice for more transparency to know where to direct my ire lol...
Wonder if the Bhathals were involved here. We've certainly seen moments when executives and owners overstep their bounds and get punished for it. We've seen refs issue red cards to execs after matches, and I think they've even punished owners for after-the-match behavior.
All this seems like a "protecting the officials, protecting the integrity of the game" type of punishment. Which would be fine if the officiating weren't so comically inconsistent and sometimes downright bad.
I mean honestly, why would they be involved? It’s something that a perfectly competent GM *should* be able to handle. In their moves so far, they seem to be pretty hands off, and have said themselves they’d “rather just hire folks to do the work that they don’t know.” They don’t really seem like the micromanaging type (even if they should be in KK’s case because she needs oversight.) Closest I could see them involved is if they were asked if it was ok to pursue the appeal…which they may have given their ok without knowing anything more about the consequences and allowing their GM to handle it.
Ditto
Well, it all happened last week before the game, so it makes a little bit of sense that there's been time for multiple processes to occur.
Honestly, I'm completely on KK's (or whoever made the appeal on behalf of the Thorns) side here. If she knew the rules and broke them to stand up for her player, good on her. If she didn't, I'm more inclined to blame the NWSL's lack of transparency in process. And that's not to mention that it's not just the GM who makes the decision on whether to appeal or not.
(Fwiw, can you think of a time we've really needed to successfully appeal a decision?)
Yeah, no you're right. I was just thinking in risk management terms....but hearing that Soph insists it was an accident makes it even more ridiculous the league came down so hard. Literally every club would back their star player if they said the same. And there's been no precedent for this in the league so how'd they know it'd be so harshly punished....still wish we had more insight into it all.
The article I saw on OregonLive said that the PA, not the team, appealed the red card. Is that wrong? If it was the PA, how does it make sense to punish the team? (Stupid question really, cuz none of this makes much sense.)
No, the club appealed the red per normal avenues.....the PA appealed a part of the draconian punishment that the league handed down (in which Soph was fined double and would miss an additional match.) So, Soph won't miss a second match, thanks to the PA, but the rest of the harsh punishment stands. The club won't be able to appeal another card for 2 damn years, along with other terms of their punishment for the club.
If they don't want appeals, they should just change the rules.
Really, though, I think they think Soph was laughing at them (well, at Chesky anyway), which I just don't believe is true. And it just makes them look petty.
Anyway, the thing I care about for the moment is that she'll be available against KC, so yay for that.
Can we all just collectively laugh at Joe Montemurro at OL though, at least? At least he's off the table.
That is actually super funny lmao
Don't complain here, complain to the league:
info@nwslsoccer.com
Seriously, they need to hear everything that we're saying about how bush league this makes NWSL look.
There have been some very good comments here, but I don't think any of us can be called a fair broker or a party with no bias. Many of us thought she didn't do anything wrong; some like me thought it was thoughtless and possibly unintentional, but the punishment was harsh, and others thought she was at fault, but a red card was unwarranted. I don't know if any of our opinions would be given a lot of weight. especially since almost everybody here is totally irate about the rules and the NWSL levying such a harsh measures.
I am not one to post negative thoughts generally, but I am on the record here below calling the NWSL, "harsh, stupid and lazy." No way to win people over to your view.
So I am hoping the people who write about the NWSL; Equalizer, The Athletic and the major bloggers have something to say. and that I think would be effective.
The issue is that wherever you stand on her transgression (whether she meant it or not etc), the subsequent punishment is nonsense. It's a bad rule, straight up.
I diagnosed and broke down in minute detail Soph's hand and arm movement and concluded that it was intentional, and wrote that several times. But it should be no more than ejection from the remainder of the NC match and suspension for the ensuing match, that's it. Why is this still going on???
Didn't see yesterday's match, but it sounds like it went exactly as I imagined it would without Smith, Coffey, Weaver, and Moultrie (and Obaze too, though Hubly has mostly played well since her return to the starting XI).
We're at the halfway point of the season, sitting 6 points behind 1st, 5 points behind 3rd, and 1 point behind 4th.
Given that we lost 3 of the first 4 matches, it's good on us that we've made up as much ground as we have.
Alas, Gotham have recovered from their own shaky start --going 6-0-1 after starting 1-2-2. They've better weathered their slew of injuries, and they still have a match in hand.
Although the outcome of a 26-match season does not come down to a single moment, I am going on record here to say that Sophia's actions-on-the-bench at the end of the NC match likely cost us 2 points yesterday, and that 2 points might well be the difference in points between finishing 4th and securing a home playoff match or failing to do so.
I see no reason to think that KC, Orlando, or Washington will come back to the pack.
I see no reason to think that Gotham will falter.
I see no reason to think that we're going to perform even better than we have over the past 9 matches (7-1-1).
However, I do think some club or clubs below us -- probably SD -- are likely to get on a run of good form.
I'll generally go along with this, but:
1) The Olympics are a wild card; there's no knowing how returning players will be affected.
2) As always a few key injuries could upend the whole table.
Good point. 2019 proves that point.
The relative good news is they don't play a league game until the end of August - two weeks after the Olympics are over.