At this point, I kinda hope we fall below the red line. It'll give us a head start on hopefully a very very busy offseason. There is no chance in hell this team wins 3 in a row against the top teams, so we may as well get started firin' and hirin'...
Thorns need to stop trying to develop organizational talent from within. It rarely works out. That's what minor leagues are for. This is big league NWSL and if you don't have polished and proven talent managing the club you're going to get left behind.... and we have. Over the years it seems like the club went from having a few bad people who were pretty good at their jobs to having a few good people who are pretty bad at their jobs. It's time to get good people who are good at their jobs. Change needs to happen sooner than later too. Once reputation sets in fixing things becomes even more difficult.
No matter how he is as a coach, I like Ken as a person. I sincerely hope that his continued "illness" is nothing serious, especially given his prior health history. Many things can weigh on the emotional energy and focus of a team.
Props to Becky Sauerbrunn for her EFFORT on corner kicks in the attacking end of the field. She looked like the only one trying to crash through to get at the ball.
By the way, am I the only one who see the Thorns as lacking a strategy? It seems there is no movement.
No. Like I said earlier; last night was truly awful, but in general the Thorns under Ken - and Norris before him - lack any sort of tactical system to put players together. It often looks like a pickup game. WAY too many people moving and passing like they have no idea what their teammates are doing or will do.
Definitely but with the system it’s much easier to shut her down because she’s the only offensive threat. We saw her get shut out a bit yesterday. System puts her in a bad position
I noticed the lack of movement, too. Soccer is pretty f'ing simple when it comes right down to it. When your teammate has the ball, the two closest players need to move to open space to receive a pass, ideally creating a triangle. Lots of standing around off-the-ball as if to say, "Whatevs, you deal with it. Good luck."
"Macca looked uncomfortable most of the game and it paid off for San Diego."
My opinion is that Arnold has been uncomfortable since the first time she started. I think Shelby Hogan should get the job again. Hogan save % 70.7; Arnold 58.3 % according to FBREF.
Macca seems like a good person but she’s just not at the level this team needs. I haven’t looked at stats but she must be bottom three or the worst gk in the league right now. The first thing a new GM should do is find a way to transfer her. She was one of the big gk transfers this summer. And someone with her experience should not be spilling balls because she can’t catch it or being badly positioned. With a big signing like her she needs to be solid. That’s not the case.
I've said this elsewhere but I saw a pre-match interview with Horan during the Olympics before they played AUS, and she talked about how Emma Hayes told them to watch for rebounds and the GK spilling bc Arnold was prone to those...it was just after she was announced here and I was like UGH
Berger? She's an excellent keeper. Regardless, I didn't see that one. I saw it said in reference to the AUS game/Arnold and I specifically remember because it was the first time I was like "shit" in reference to our new keeper.
She just can’t hold on to the ball. It’s so predictable hit it hard enough and she will spill it. She’s also not very good at positioning and knowing where to be. She punches the ball instead of getting it and creates another opportunity for the other team. I think that KK saw her in the World Cup ( a very small sample size) and based everything on that. Her underlying stats at club are just not good .
Sounds like a very LeBlanc thing to do...she very much tries to take the path of least resistance. She didn't think for once "Why has she been on a bottom table WSL team and nobody else seems particularly interested in signing her...?" It's not like she's young and can grow out of bad habits or get that much better. She's already 30.
It's disheartening that this was presented as a big signing, but the problem is that Hogan should start over her. Arnold's not the best keeper on the roster. I think everyone's been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that only works while there's doubt.
But if you look at them against the shot overall - the best metric for that is "post-shot xG minus goals allowed per 90 minutes" Hogan is a net negative (about -0.18 goals per 90m) while Arnold is +0.37, so actually saving her club a little less than half a goal per game.
I think the stats are both misleading. I think Arnold has some bigger decision-making issues than a keeper of her experience should have, that shows in stuff like positioning and coming/not coming off her line. But so does Hogan, who's also really questionable in the air and had visible confidence issues.
Neither has looked outstanding this season.
I still need to review this one, but off the top of my head I'm not sure it shows anything about Arnold's "comfort" level. The second concession was an unsaveable deflection off her defender. The first was probably a poor charge off her line - she either needs to be sure she can get to the service to catch or box away or stay put - but not entirely condemnable. Not a great night, but Hogan had some of those this season.
Bottom line: for all that LeBlanc dredged up a shit-ton of keepers none of them are Murphy/Campbell/Berger (just to pick three the NWSL) grade. We have much bigger issues, but a truly top-flight keeper would be nice...
Arnold also had a couple of shots that she boxed, but not really away. They weren't as bad as in LA - a little farther from goal - but I was really glad Emslie was not on the field. It could have been 0-4.
Yeah, I'm not happy with her; don't get me wrong. It's just that, like the initial hype FOR her, her performances haven't been all that much more dire than Hogan's or Bixby's before that. She's real meh.
But you know what other top-class WSL keeper might be open to a transfer? Khiara Keating at ManCity. It's looking like Ayaka Yamashita has beaten her out of a job in the favored 11, despite the former being British (let's not kid ourselves: it matters in that league) and the rising young star. But Yamashita-senshu is the #1 keeper for one of the best international sides and at 29 is at the height of her powers.
Keating's a kid and thus might make some bad decisions as she accumulates experience, but we're getting that anyway. She's a really gifted shot stopper, though. She's just losing out to one of the best 'keepers in WoSo at City.
This is just by eyeball, so I could be totally wrong, but I thought Hogan improved over the course of the season, and that Arnold is more comparable to March-April Hogan. The fact remains that we need a real NWSL level keeper. Among other things.
I agree. She got the hook just when she was starting to look legit (minus distribution, which I think can be improved upon with good coaching). Now I wouldn't be surprised if her confidence is shot and it's back to square one.
She has never been the best shot-stopper or the best at crosses.
She is good at building from the back. That to me, was the long-term plan of this team. You buy Obaze and Müller, and already have Sauerbrunn and Coffey, and you add a goalkeeper who is comfortable with the ball at her feet.
If you're now building a team to soak pressure and counter, and play a back 5, you are starting the wrong goalkeeper. So she as much as anyone is suffering from the incoherence of the coaching staff's tactical set up.
I know it was barely 12 hours ago, but it's already difficult to recall what happened last night. "Moultrie fires futile shots from distance" comes to mind, as well as "Sauerbrunn skies over from the doorstep". Oh, and "San Diego gets a goal off someone's sports bra".
But that's it.
The rest of it? Feels like it was a pointless effort, just twenty-odd people running around a patchy semi-grass-covered rectangle doing...not much of anything. I'm having a hard time even getting pissed off about, it seems so random and disengaged.
I certainly hope the Bhathals are pissed off that their employees are tanking their investment. But OTOH...they kinda have themselves to blame. There are a crap-ton of smart people in the soccer biz in California. They could have gotten any number of them on the payroll during the sale. Showed up here with their own advisors and FO staff, started the process of cleaning out the Peregrine holdovers quickly and thoroughly.
Instead they chose to hang on to Paulson's staff and (presumably) take their advice - particularly LeBlanc's, despite the clear early indications (as PDXEll documented) that she is over her head professionally and (as the anonymous Reddit poster suggests) a divisive force personally. That LeBlanc is speaking for their organization suggests that they are unable or unwilling to look past her public image and see what's happening on the ground.
Likewise their coaching hires. Mike Norris is facially understandable; RW had just publicly crapped the mattress (tho between the way that made their own HRs incompetence clear, and the stench of their GM's doxing the players over their worries about it, how that didn't give the Bhathals the perfect excuse to do the housecleaning they'd put off until that point I have no words).
But the Gale promotion? And then lifting the "interim" tag in midseason for no reason?
That suggests our owners isn't learning.
So...while I hope the fan unrest will help them see it, I'm not confident that our plutocrats see the problems as urgently as we do.
I'll be curious to see if there's any significant reaction out of the stands next weekend.
It does feel like the Bathals thought they were getting a turn key operation. I can see why, as we finished in the top two for the last couple of years. This off season will be make or break for my opinion of them, for sure.
The only justification for keeping Leblanc initially that I can see, rather than smart people from CA, is the nuances of NWSL. We know MP was active as an owner and maybe they expected some of the knowledge of navigating the league would carry over. Obviously, that proved to be disastrously false. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
I think you are. Given the SDW/ACFC launches (as well as strong non-NWSL outfits like the Sacramento Republic) the Bhathals could have and should have had any number of people within easy reach to have advised them. MP's fuckery with people like GW and Mike Golub were well known in the biz, as was LeBlanc's initial reputation.
Tl:dr, they SHOULD have known. That they didn't is on them.
I will say. I am very angry that players who frankly gave everything they had two years ago despite the obstinacy of the previous owner, and his refusal to come clean about what had happened here, have been let down by this complete buffoon of a general manager.
And quite frankly if it continues to get ugly it’ll look bad for the WNBA team. The world of women’s sport is small. People talk.
And the bitter irony in that is that she was a "vibes hire" selected in no small part as a balm to the much put-upon players.
I can see your speculation about splashback on the WNBA team coming about, too. I don't watch hoops, so there's nothing personal for me riding on that team's success, but Portland as a whole doesn't need another shitshow.
Yeah she was a shield for MP despite having no experience. GW was supposed to train her on the job, but then he got fired and so we just had a rookie in charge of everything. And it hasn't gotten better, even after 3 years!
I think her popularity here in and after 2013 was a big piece, too. She was a visible part of the "2013 Feel-Good Story" that Paulson hoped would run interference for his fuckery. I can see Sinc bringer her name to Paulson and Paulson thinking: "KK? Everybody LOVED KK! That'll work..!"
Another Monday morning and radio silence from the Thorns ownership. No GM or coaching change. Apparently they're going to ride out what's left of this season and then "do something" afterwards. So we, the paying fans, can expect more crap on the field. I cannot imagine how disorienting and discouraging this is for the players, and for the fans it's a slap in the face for insane loyalty. Talk about a vacuum of leadership.
This is what we get from the billionaire class, who are always impressed with how smart they are which is rarely the case. In England we would boo and have signs castigating the ownership. We don't do that here, but the owners deserve it.
With the new players agreement why would world class players want to come to Portland now - no idea. This season did not have to go this way, but wow, it sure has gone to hell.
Well, just because they've remained silent doesn't mean that we must, or should, do so.
Time to contact them via member services. Ask them for their plan and let them know that what has happened under their first 8 months of ownership is unacceptable.
I just got a reply from member services management:
"Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns. Your passion for the Thorns and dedication to the team are evident, and it’s clear that the performance and direction of the club deeply matter to you.
As you know, the club is now under new ownership, and while transitions like this take time, we are committed to building a brighter future for the Thorns. We understand the frustrations that you have expressed, and leadership is working hard to create the changes necessary to elevate the team both on and off the pitch.
Your support and involvement are invaluable as we strive to regain the proud standing of this club and continue to be a beacon for women’s sports. Your passion, loyalty, and continued support are the heart of this club. Thank you for being a fan and sharing your thoughts with us—we value your feedback as we work toward a better future together."
But all of this is for naught unless folks actually take the step to voice their displeasure directly, and in an organized fashion, at games and via communication with the organization.
Watching Bunnies Gunma FC vs AS Harima Albion right now...and it's a palate cleanser. The tactical cohesion and understanding of both of these 2nd-division teams makes the current Thorns side look like rec leaguers. These are SEMI-PROS (in Japanese WoSo, only the first division WE League is fully professional). Their athleticism as a good ways off the NWSL, but their technical skill is comparable (a function of the Japanese youth system's focus on that aspect) and their team cohesion is literally on a different level. This should NOT be happening.
Pretty much any WE League team would clobber the current Thorns. One of the elite sides, like Uwara, Kobe, or Beleza, would _eviscerate_ them.
I think that goes for a fair number of non-US leagues. It's difficult for us in the US to visualize the effect of the "win-now" pressure on the AYSO and NCAA clubs have on player development.
Young players can run all day, and if your young player can run faster longer than theirs? You can often beat them. So teaching technical skills - which 1) take time to develop and 2) aren't as easy for the median player TO develop - is less rewarding for a coach who HAS to win to justify their employment.
That changes immensely in an academy system. Barca's or Beleza's or Wolfsburg's or Chelsea's academies don't have to win. They probably often do, but that's because their training staffs are outstanding and their players are the best AND better trained. But if they don't? That's not their jobs. They're there to feed good players into the senior teams.
Try selling that to the head coach at Santa Clara.
Now...you CAN do both; look at Clive Charles production out of tiny UP, in both titles and alumni. But look at how many "Clive Charles" there are and you can see how damn difficult it is to balance the two imperatives, "win today" and "develop great players for tomorrow".
If it is really as bad as it seems behind the scenes, it's really hard to explain how much of a tremendous fuck up this is. As y'all know, I've been willing to be patient with the results because, well, the roster isn't at the point where it's ready to challenge the best teams, and every team goes through rough patches during rebuilds. But that's what makes this so much worse: I continue to think that they HAD the runway to have a shitty season on the way to a an actual rebuild and have, seemingly, totally fucked it with poor decisions and poor people management.
Which brings me to, if not the biggest, certainly the most upsetting issue: This isn't really based on anything but gut feeling (though the "ankle injury" and not traveling with the team doesn't help), but I think there's a >50% chance that Smith asks out sometime in the next two months. One player isn't a club etc etc, but *we just don't get to watch players like her play in Portland very often,* across ALL sports. She gave them a chance to show her the direction by signing that 1+1 during the really rough first few Norris games and they, again, seem to have totally fucked it up. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there's a decent chance they have to sell her for pennies to a Chicago, Bay, or San Diego or force her see out her contract....which is hardly better.
Anyway, like I said: I can take the losses, but the idea that our best players might be pissed off at management to the point of asking out is much more distressing. We'll see what ends up happening, but I think there's enough evidence of chaos that I'm pretty much at the point of "everyone out, now."
I don't think it's hard to explain at all. We've gone off a cliff. Karina's a talker, and the new owners don't know what they don't know. They're now front-and-center, though, to the fact that Karina isn't good at the job.
As for Smith, others of us have already come to those troubling thoughts.
That's why now is the time for annual members to contact the owners directly, not just to voice our frustrations or summarize the decline of the team, but ask them to share with us what their plans are to build the best women's soccer club in the world, as they promised. Because this ain't it, and it's only getting worse.
If we lose Sophia Smith in this new era of NWSL, it will be a very long time before Portland ever again wins a Shield or a Championship. Right now, this organization is not ambitious, and there are more attractive places to play.
Yes, I agree. My point is that if it was *just* on the soccer side, I don't think the situation would be quite as dire....but it doesn't seem to be constrained to the soccer side.
So yeah, I agree that losing Smith this offseason would be borderline catastrophic to any hopes of challenging in the near future, not just because of her talent, but because if they can't keep her around when she has a contract with the team, I don't see how they're going to get someone to replace her.
And yes: If ownership doesn't step up and fix things ASAP --whether because of not caring or general obliviousness-- it's not going to get better. Are y'all emailing the member email or is there a better one to contact?
I don't know whether it's on the Biz Ops side too. If there's anything to those Reddit posts ABell4 accumulated, then yes. But I think it's fine for us to focus on the Soccer Ops side first.
Sure, but I don't think the panic meter would be quite as high if it was just losses and lack of signings. Certainly mine wouldn't be.
Much more worrying if there's either leftover rot from MP (KK etc) or if it's gotten worse. On-field troubles can often make things look worse than they are because that's what the fans see, but off-field troubles are really what tend to cause players to look elsewhere.
I think the panic is high because several of us know, from well-connected folks in the worlds of NWSL and international WoSo, journalists, etc., that we're all seeing the same thing - that the team on the field is absolutely "unrecognizable." The reason for that is, at least, what's happening on the Soccer Ops side.
Yes, but I think that's where the disconnect is. If the Thorns were struggling (even "unrecognizable") on the field, but had a coherent plan going forward and hadn't hired Gale for no apparent reason, my level of concern would be much lower. Like, if they were struggling like this but Gale was still interim and there were no rumors of big issues behind the scenes, I'd still be saying "let's see how the offseason goes and who they hire." Most journos are focused on "oh no the big bad Thorns are suddenly meek" element, and I don't think that's the proper way to look at what's currently wrong with the org- Plenty of teams have awful years during a rebuild but don't have the same terrible vibes as the Thorns do atm.
tbf i think it is quite possible the ankle injury is real. She was grabbing at it in the midweek Concacaf game, she had it iced after the Bay game, and it kept her out of an Olympics game. But I definitely share your concerns that we're reaching a point where not just Soph but a bunch of others want out - Sam, Müller, etc.
I think it's for sure a real injury, but it's concerning (if very much in character) how ambiguous they're being about her status....especially combined with some of the rumors floating around.
And yeah- I'd be worried about Müller and Obaze in particular. This isn't what they signed up for. Maybe I'm being naiive, but I don't think Sam is the asking out type, though they do need to tie her down to a new deal sometime relatively soon.
The internationals are in a tough spot because they might want to leave but not be able to do so unless Karina finds a transfer fee that is to her liking.
Which, while I'm all for players holding their management accountable, is *mostly* how it should be. Unless the players feel unsafe in some way, of course.
My valuable hunch (free and worth every penny) is she returned from France with an unacknowledged injury--hinted at by her downtime before return to play--that might be further aggravated by recent league play.
A real demotivator for any more field time in this clusterflock of a season's end.
I would just shut her down for the rest of the season. Who knows, she might even appreciate that management is concerned about her physical well-being long-term instead of seeking short-term benefit.
Also, play Sinc 90+ every game and call it a Farewell Tour. With our current form, terrible roster construction, and Sugita out, we aren't doing anything, anyway.
By now I would expect Moultrie knows it's a rare day that Kailen Sheridan is going to get beat by shots from 20 yards out. I'm not saying never take that shot. But a half-dozen weak efforts I thought was lazy effort in attacking.
Yeah, that was frustrating. She is becoming a bit of a black hole. Then the one time I thought she should shoot from the top of the box, she tried a pass that failed.
So I didn't actually dream up that mess and it really happened. Was kind of hoping I'd fallen asleep and the actual ending was different. Seems to be 2024 in a nutshell.
Good news that Melina and you will be collaborating on a piece.
Please also consider merging into your original piece on the state of the Thorns with the research PDXElls produced today, and then republishing it.
If Revitate is currently using Karina as a keynote speaker, then it's probably going to take much more evidence as well as pressure to get the Bhathals to wake up and do what's needed.
At this point, I kinda hope we fall below the red line. It'll give us a head start on hopefully a very very busy offseason. There is no chance in hell this team wins 3 in a row against the top teams, so we may as well get started firin' and hirin'...
Thorns need to stop trying to develop organizational talent from within. It rarely works out. That's what minor leagues are for. This is big league NWSL and if you don't have polished and proven talent managing the club you're going to get left behind.... and we have. Over the years it seems like the club went from having a few bad people who were pretty good at their jobs to having a few good people who are pretty bad at their jobs. It's time to get good people who are good at their jobs. Change needs to happen sooner than later too. Once reputation sets in fixing things becomes even more difficult.
No matter how he is as a coach, I like Ken as a person. I sincerely hope that his continued "illness" is nothing serious, especially given his prior health history. Many things can weigh on the emotional energy and focus of a team.
+1.
Ken is quite obviously a good, kind and generous person and I wish nothing but good things for him, beginning with health.
Props to Becky Sauerbrunn for her EFFORT on corner kicks in the attacking end of the field. She looked like the only one trying to crash through to get at the ball.
By the way, am I the only one who see the Thorns as lacking a strategy? It seems there is no movement.
No. Like I said earlier; last night was truly awful, but in general the Thorns under Ken - and Norris before him - lack any sort of tactical system to put players together. It often looks like a pickup game. WAY too many people moving and passing like they have no idea what their teammates are doing or will do.
Reminds me of my daughters rec team in the early years were everyone clumps together instead of spreading out. Players tripping over each other.
The captain has been giving everything for this team. Effort is unmatched. I would say Sugita and Becky just try to do it all for this team
Weaver too, when she's healthy.
Definitely but with the system it’s much easier to shut her down because she’s the only offensive threat. We saw her get shut out a bit yesterday. System puts her in a bad position
Agree, but you can't fault her effort.
For sure , I’m so glad she’s back
Agreed, and it's always on both sides of the ball (same with Hina).
I noticed the lack of movement, too. Soccer is pretty f'ing simple when it comes right down to it. When your teammate has the ball, the two closest players need to move to open space to receive a pass, ideally creating a triangle. Lots of standing around off-the-ball as if to say, "Whatevs, you deal with it. Good luck."
You are def not the only one!
"Macca looked uncomfortable most of the game and it paid off for San Diego."
My opinion is that Arnold has been uncomfortable since the first time she started. I think Shelby Hogan should get the job again. Hogan save % 70.7; Arnold 58.3 % according to FBREF.
Macca seems like a good person but she’s just not at the level this team needs. I haven’t looked at stats but she must be bottom three or the worst gk in the league right now. The first thing a new GM should do is find a way to transfer her. She was one of the big gk transfers this summer. And someone with her experience should not be spilling balls because she can’t catch it or being badly positioned. With a big signing like her she needs to be solid. That’s not the case.
I've said this elsewhere but I saw a pre-match interview with Horan during the Olympics before they played AUS, and she talked about how Emma Hayes told them to watch for rebounds and the GK spilling bc Arnold was prone to those...it was just after she was announced here and I was like UGH
I thought that was in reference to Ann-Katrin Berger.
Berger? She's an excellent keeper. Regardless, I didn't see that one. I saw it said in reference to the AUS game/Arnold and I specifically remember because it was the first time I was like "shit" in reference to our new keeper.
Mmmmmm.... Berger.
She just can’t hold on to the ball. It’s so predictable hit it hard enough and she will spill it. She’s also not very good at positioning and knowing where to be. She punches the ball instead of getting it and creates another opportunity for the other team. I think that KK saw her in the World Cup ( a very small sample size) and based everything on that. Her underlying stats at club are just not good .
Sounds like a very LeBlanc thing to do...she very much tries to take the path of least resistance. She didn't think for once "Why has she been on a bottom table WSL team and nobody else seems particularly interested in signing her...?" It's not like she's young and can grow out of bad habits or get that much better. She's already 30.
And keepers are said to be at their prime at age 30. So, she's not going to get any better.
This is where I think stats fail when it comes to keepers. Too many variables that account for a goalie's overall performance.
"...she must be bottom three or the worst gk in the league right now".
tl:dr - no:
https://fbref.com/en/comps/182/keepersadv/NWSL-Stats#all_stats_keeper_adv
When Hogan last played the team GK numbers were negative overall. Arnold has brought us up - not very FAR up, mind! - but we're not ACFC or BayFC.
We need a better keeper. But we need a LOT of better things, so keeper is kinda "on the list"
It's disheartening that this was presented as a big signing, but the problem is that Hogan should start over her. Arnold's not the best keeper on the roster. I think everyone's been trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but that only works while there's doubt.
But if you look at them against the shot overall - the best metric for that is "post-shot xG minus goals allowed per 90 minutes" Hogan is a net negative (about -0.18 goals per 90m) while Arnold is +0.37, so actually saving her club a little less than half a goal per game.
I think the stats are both misleading. I think Arnold has some bigger decision-making issues than a keeper of her experience should have, that shows in stuff like positioning and coming/not coming off her line. But so does Hogan, who's also really questionable in the air and had visible confidence issues.
Neither has looked outstanding this season.
I still need to review this one, but off the top of my head I'm not sure it shows anything about Arnold's "comfort" level. The second concession was an unsaveable deflection off her defender. The first was probably a poor charge off her line - she either needs to be sure she can get to the service to catch or box away or stay put - but not entirely condemnable. Not a great night, but Hogan had some of those this season.
Bottom line: for all that LeBlanc dredged up a shit-ton of keepers none of them are Murphy/Campbell/Berger (just to pick three the NWSL) grade. We have much bigger issues, but a truly top-flight keeper would be nice...
I agree, the second goal was not entirely condemnable. Right decision, bad outcome. It happens. Good play by their player getting to it first.
You know what they say, when you have 6 keepers, you really don't have any (to borrow a phrase from American football regarding QBs).
Arnold also had a couple of shots that she boxed, but not really away. They weren't as bad as in LA - a little farther from goal - but I was really glad Emslie was not on the field. It could have been 0-4.
Yeah, I'm not happy with her; don't get me wrong. It's just that, like the initial hype FOR her, her performances haven't been all that much more dire than Hogan's or Bixby's before that. She's real meh.
There's a reason why the top keeper for a Top 10-ish international side is out of contract and available to sign.
Yeah, and from one of the worst teams in the WSL lol
But you know what other top-class WSL keeper might be open to a transfer? Khiara Keating at ManCity. It's looking like Ayaka Yamashita has beaten her out of a job in the favored 11, despite the former being British (let's not kid ourselves: it matters in that league) and the rising young star. But Yamashita-senshu is the #1 keeper for one of the best international sides and at 29 is at the height of her powers.
Keating's a kid and thus might make some bad decisions as she accumulates experience, but we're getting that anyway. She's a really gifted shot stopper, though. She's just losing out to one of the best 'keepers in WoSo at City.
This is just by eyeball, so I could be totally wrong, but I thought Hogan improved over the course of the season, and that Arnold is more comparable to March-April Hogan. The fact remains that we need a real NWSL level keeper. Among other things.
March-April Hogan was a hot mess. Arnold is...not that bad. Keep in mind that the September Thorns squad is a hot mess. That makes everyone look bad!
But, yes. We need a better keeper, too.
I agree. She got the hook just when she was starting to look legit (minus distribution, which I think can be improved upon with good coaching). Now I wouldn't be surprised if her confidence is shot and it's back to square one.
My take on Arnold is two-fold:
She has never been the best shot-stopper or the best at crosses.
She is good at building from the back. That to me, was the long-term plan of this team. You buy Obaze and Müller, and already have Sauerbrunn and Coffey, and you add a goalkeeper who is comfortable with the ball at her feet.
If you're now building a team to soak pressure and counter, and play a back 5, you are starting the wrong goalkeeper. So she as much as anyone is suffering from the incoherence of the coaching staff's tactical set up.
I know it was barely 12 hours ago, but it's already difficult to recall what happened last night. "Moultrie fires futile shots from distance" comes to mind, as well as "Sauerbrunn skies over from the doorstep". Oh, and "San Diego gets a goal off someone's sports bra".
But that's it.
The rest of it? Feels like it was a pointless effort, just twenty-odd people running around a patchy semi-grass-covered rectangle doing...not much of anything. I'm having a hard time even getting pissed off about, it seems so random and disengaged.
I certainly hope the Bhathals are pissed off that their employees are tanking their investment. But OTOH...they kinda have themselves to blame. There are a crap-ton of smart people in the soccer biz in California. They could have gotten any number of them on the payroll during the sale. Showed up here with their own advisors and FO staff, started the process of cleaning out the Peregrine holdovers quickly and thoroughly.
Instead they chose to hang on to Paulson's staff and (presumably) take their advice - particularly LeBlanc's, despite the clear early indications (as PDXEll documented) that she is over her head professionally and (as the anonymous Reddit poster suggests) a divisive force personally. That LeBlanc is speaking for their organization suggests that they are unable or unwilling to look past her public image and see what's happening on the ground.
Likewise their coaching hires. Mike Norris is facially understandable; RW had just publicly crapped the mattress (tho between the way that made their own HRs incompetence clear, and the stench of their GM's doxing the players over their worries about it, how that didn't give the Bhathals the perfect excuse to do the housecleaning they'd put off until that point I have no words).
But the Gale promotion? And then lifting the "interim" tag in midseason for no reason?
That suggests our owners isn't learning.
So...while I hope the fan unrest will help them see it, I'm not confident that our plutocrats see the problems as urgently as we do.
I'll be curious to see if there's any significant reaction out of the stands next weekend.
None of what I saw last night would ever beat Girma and Sheridan.
I'll be curious to see what the difference between our xG and PSxG are. Pretty big, I'll bet...
It does feel like the Bathals thought they were getting a turn key operation. I can see why, as we finished in the top two for the last couple of years. This off season will be make or break for my opinion of them, for sure.
The only justification for keeping Leblanc initially that I can see, rather than smart people from CA, is the nuances of NWSL. We know MP was active as an owner and maybe they expected some of the knowledge of navigating the league would carry over. Obviously, that proved to be disastrously false. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
I think you are. Given the SDW/ACFC launches (as well as strong non-NWSL outfits like the Sacramento Republic) the Bhathals could have and should have had any number of people within easy reach to have advised them. MP's fuckery with people like GW and Mike Golub were well known in the biz, as was LeBlanc's initial reputation.
Tl:dr, they SHOULD have known. That they didn't is on them.
I will say. I am very angry that players who frankly gave everything they had two years ago despite the obstinacy of the previous owner, and his refusal to come clean about what had happened here, have been let down by this complete buffoon of a general manager.
And quite frankly if it continues to get ugly it’ll look bad for the WNBA team. The world of women’s sport is small. People talk.
And the bitter irony in that is that she was a "vibes hire" selected in no small part as a balm to the much put-upon players.
I can see your speculation about splashback on the WNBA team coming about, too. I don't watch hoops, so there's nothing personal for me riding on that team's success, but Portland as a whole doesn't need another shitshow.
Yeah she was a shield for MP despite having no experience. GW was supposed to train her on the job, but then he got fired and so we just had a rookie in charge of everything. And it hasn't gotten better, even after 3 years!
But we got all those cute kid walks around the stadium. That's just as good, right?
The kid is a human shield at this point. I can't boo her with the little one there.
Let’s be crystal clear: she was hired because she’s one of Sinclair’s best friends.
I think her popularity here in and after 2013 was a big piece, too. She was a visible part of the "2013 Feel-Good Story" that Paulson hoped would run interference for his fuckery. I can see Sinc bringer her name to Paulson and Paulson thinking: "KK? Everybody LOVED KK! That'll work..!"
And I hope they doooo!
Another Monday morning and radio silence from the Thorns ownership. No GM or coaching change. Apparently they're going to ride out what's left of this season and then "do something" afterwards. So we, the paying fans, can expect more crap on the field. I cannot imagine how disorienting and discouraging this is for the players, and for the fans it's a slap in the face for insane loyalty. Talk about a vacuum of leadership.
This is what we get from the billionaire class, who are always impressed with how smart they are which is rarely the case. In England we would boo and have signs castigating the ownership. We don't do that here, but the owners deserve it.
With the new players agreement why would world class players want to come to Portland now - no idea. This season did not have to go this way, but wow, it sure has gone to hell.
Yes reputation matters and this investment could go sideways if decisive action isn't taken soon.
The Thorns collapsing could also bruise their rep for the new WNBA team. If it were me, there is enough at stake to motivate some reflection.
Well, just because they've remained silent doesn't mean that we must, or should, do so.
Time to contact them via member services. Ask them for their plan and let them know that what has happened under their first 8 months of ownership is unacceptable.
I did exactly that yesterday. Have yet to hear back.
I basically told them unless changes are made, I won't be renewing my season tickets. Crickets so far.
I just got a reply from member services management:
"Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns. Your passion for the Thorns and dedication to the team are evident, and it’s clear that the performance and direction of the club deeply matter to you.
As you know, the club is now under new ownership, and while transitions like this take time, we are committed to building a brighter future for the Thorns. We understand the frustrations that you have expressed, and leadership is working hard to create the changes necessary to elevate the team both on and off the pitch.
Your support and involvement are invaluable as we strive to regain the proud standing of this club and continue to be a beacon for women’s sports. Your passion, loyalty, and continued support are the heart of this club. Thank you for being a fan and sharing your thoughts with us—we value your feedback as we work toward a better future together."
Looks like a corporate boilerplate. At least it looks like they have put something together knowing they will have to send it to a lot of people.
Clearly, we need more defenders like this one: https://x.com/ChiitanNagoya/status/1817093643720867846
Why they do #12 like that?
Tell me that isn’t Kelli Hubly
Probably Shea Groom based on the form...
Player's parents on instagram liking posts asking for the GM and manager to go...incredibly bad vibes. christ.
But all of this is for naught unless folks actually take the step to voice their displeasure directly, and in an organized fashion, at games and via communication with the organization.
Even the parents of players who used to be here but are now elsewhere...lol.
Yeah I've personally had parents and relatives of players like posts here and elsewhere saying similar....in the last couple months especially.
Please come back as GM Mark Parsons and find a competent coach to come with you.
Watching Bunnies Gunma FC vs AS Harima Albion right now...and it's a palate cleanser. The tactical cohesion and understanding of both of these 2nd-division teams makes the current Thorns side look like rec leaguers. These are SEMI-PROS (in Japanese WoSo, only the first division WE League is fully professional). Their athleticism as a good ways off the NWSL, but their technical skill is comparable (a function of the Japanese youth system's focus on that aspect) and their team cohesion is literally on a different level. This should NOT be happening.
Pretty much any WE League team would clobber the current Thorns. One of the elite sides, like Uwara, Kobe, or Beleza, would _eviscerate_ them.
I think that goes for a fair number of non-US leagues. It's difficult for us in the US to visualize the effect of the "win-now" pressure on the AYSO and NCAA clubs have on player development.
Young players can run all day, and if your young player can run faster longer than theirs? You can often beat them. So teaching technical skills - which 1) take time to develop and 2) aren't as easy for the median player TO develop - is less rewarding for a coach who HAS to win to justify their employment.
That changes immensely in an academy system. Barca's or Beleza's or Wolfsburg's or Chelsea's academies don't have to win. They probably often do, but that's because their training staffs are outstanding and their players are the best AND better trained. But if they don't? That's not their jobs. They're there to feed good players into the senior teams.
Try selling that to the head coach at Santa Clara.
Now...you CAN do both; look at Clive Charles production out of tiny UP, in both titles and alumni. But look at how many "Clive Charles" there are and you can see how damn difficult it is to balance the two imperatives, "win today" and "develop great players for tomorrow".
*Doomer Mode Activated*
If it is really as bad as it seems behind the scenes, it's really hard to explain how much of a tremendous fuck up this is. As y'all know, I've been willing to be patient with the results because, well, the roster isn't at the point where it's ready to challenge the best teams, and every team goes through rough patches during rebuilds. But that's what makes this so much worse: I continue to think that they HAD the runway to have a shitty season on the way to a an actual rebuild and have, seemingly, totally fucked it with poor decisions and poor people management.
Which brings me to, if not the biggest, certainly the most upsetting issue: This isn't really based on anything but gut feeling (though the "ankle injury" and not traveling with the team doesn't help), but I think there's a >50% chance that Smith asks out sometime in the next two months. One player isn't a club etc etc, but *we just don't get to watch players like her play in Portland very often,* across ALL sports. She gave them a chance to show her the direction by signing that 1+1 during the really rough first few Norris games and they, again, seem to have totally fucked it up. I hope I'm wrong, but I think there's a decent chance they have to sell her for pennies to a Chicago, Bay, or San Diego or force her see out her contract....which is hardly better.
Anyway, like I said: I can take the losses, but the idea that our best players might be pissed off at management to the point of asking out is much more distressing. We'll see what ends up happening, but I think there's enough evidence of chaos that I'm pretty much at the point of "everyone out, now."
I don't think it's hard to explain at all. We've gone off a cliff. Karina's a talker, and the new owners don't know what they don't know. They're now front-and-center, though, to the fact that Karina isn't good at the job.
As for Smith, others of us have already come to those troubling thoughts.
That's why now is the time for annual members to contact the owners directly, not just to voice our frustrations or summarize the decline of the team, but ask them to share with us what their plans are to build the best women's soccer club in the world, as they promised. Because this ain't it, and it's only getting worse.
If we lose Sophia Smith in this new era of NWSL, it will be a very long time before Portland ever again wins a Shield or a Championship. Right now, this organization is not ambitious, and there are more attractive places to play.
Yes, I agree. My point is that if it was *just* on the soccer side, I don't think the situation would be quite as dire....but it doesn't seem to be constrained to the soccer side.
So yeah, I agree that losing Smith this offseason would be borderline catastrophic to any hopes of challenging in the near future, not just because of her talent, but because if they can't keep her around when she has a contract with the team, I don't see how they're going to get someone to replace her.
And yes: If ownership doesn't step up and fix things ASAP --whether because of not caring or general obliviousness-- it's not going to get better. Are y'all emailing the member email or is there a better one to contact?
I don't know whether it's on the Biz Ops side too. If there's anything to those Reddit posts ABell4 accumulated, then yes. But I think it's fine for us to focus on the Soccer Ops side first.
Sure, but I don't think the panic meter would be quite as high if it was just losses and lack of signings. Certainly mine wouldn't be.
Much more worrying if there's either leftover rot from MP (KK etc) or if it's gotten worse. On-field troubles can often make things look worse than they are because that's what the fans see, but off-field troubles are really what tend to cause players to look elsewhere.
I think the panic is high because several of us know, from well-connected folks in the worlds of NWSL and international WoSo, journalists, etc., that we're all seeing the same thing - that the team on the field is absolutely "unrecognizable." The reason for that is, at least, what's happening on the Soccer Ops side.
Yes, but I think that's where the disconnect is. If the Thorns were struggling (even "unrecognizable") on the field, but had a coherent plan going forward and hadn't hired Gale for no apparent reason, my level of concern would be much lower. Like, if they were struggling like this but Gale was still interim and there were no rumors of big issues behind the scenes, I'd still be saying "let's see how the offseason goes and who they hire." Most journos are focused on "oh no the big bad Thorns are suddenly meek" element, and I don't think that's the proper way to look at what's currently wrong with the org- Plenty of teams have awful years during a rebuild but don't have the same terrible vibes as the Thorns do atm.
I think her fiance plays for Arizona still? I could see a record breaking deal to Angel City as Press ages out.
Or SD with her best friend right after Morgan just retired…
tbf i think it is quite possible the ankle injury is real. She was grabbing at it in the midweek Concacaf game, she had it iced after the Bay game, and it kept her out of an Olympics game. But I definitely share your concerns that we're reaching a point where not just Soph but a bunch of others want out - Sam, Müller, etc.
I think it's for sure a real injury, but it's concerning (if very much in character) how ambiguous they're being about her status....especially combined with some of the rumors floating around.
And yeah- I'd be worried about Müller and Obaze in particular. This isn't what they signed up for. Maybe I'm being naiive, but I don't think Sam is the asking out type, though they do need to tie her down to a new deal sometime relatively soon.
The internationals are in a tough spot because they might want to leave but not be able to do so unless Karina finds a transfer fee that is to her liking.
Which, while I'm all for players holding their management accountable, is *mostly* how it should be. Unless the players feel unsafe in some way, of course.
My valuable hunch (free and worth every penny) is she returned from France with an unacknowledged injury--hinted at by her downtime before return to play--that might be further aggravated by recent league play.
A real demotivator for any more field time in this clusterflock of a season's end.
I would just shut her down for the rest of the season. Who knows, she might even appreciate that management is concerned about her physical well-being long-term instead of seeking short-term benefit.
Also, play Sinc 90+ every game and call it a Farewell Tour. With our current form, terrible roster construction, and Sugita out, we aren't doing anything, anyway.
Well let's all pray that's all it is!
By now I would expect Moultrie knows it's a rare day that Kailen Sheridan is going to get beat by shots from 20 yards out. I'm not saying never take that shot. But a half-dozen weak efforts I thought was lazy effort in attacking.
Not just Moultrie. Fleming too. And others. Not going to beat Sheridan and Girma that way.
The problem was they couldn't hit the upper 90s. almost all the shots were high, wide, or easy saves, many near-post or right at Sheridan.
Yeah, that was frustrating. She is becoming a bit of a black hole. Then the one time I thought she should shoot from the top of the box, she tried a pass that failed.
So I didn't actually dream up that mess and it really happened. Was kind of hoping I'd fallen asleep and the actual ending was different. Seems to be 2024 in a nutshell.
Good news that Melina and you will be collaborating on a piece.
Please also consider merging into your original piece on the state of the Thorns with the research PDXElls produced today, and then republishing it.
If Revitate is currently using Karina as a keynote speaker, then it's probably going to take much more evidence as well as pressure to get the Bhathals to wake up and do what's needed.