What gets me is that the whole "keep the troops informed if you don't want troublesome morale issues developing" is kind of Management 101. Regardless of whether it's government or sports or business, being proactive about messaging - the message YOU want - is pretty universal and fundamental.
How hard is a weekly presser? You can placate the mob with generalities: "We've got (number) GM candidates in the interview stage, including two we're very hopeful about." "We worked with Kelli and her agent, and made what we feel was a very reasonable offer but were unable to reach an agreement." "We're currently looking over several promising player signings, including some NCAA players as well as pros currently playing overseas..."
Plus you keep the club in the news, keep public interest in the offseason. Win-win!
The club not taking this what-seems-simple-and-obvious way of doing this stuff is what makes me increasingly skeptical of the Bhathal's sports savvy, beyond the obvious boneheaded actions like Ken and Karina. This shouldn't be rocket science. But...
I agree completely. And proactive messaging, positive and ostensibly "informative" PR has been of such increasing and obvious importance over the past several decades that it's stunning to encounter monied interests who appear to be so oblivious to its value.
For heaven's sake, I would guess that college level public relations courses have drawn ever increasing interest for at least the past five decades. And I can think of numerous fairly prominent local examples where people have taken PR jobs upon leaving positions in media or government. Hire a pro to placate an uneasy fan base and this organization could well (or could have) stave(d) off a growing discontent among Thorns fans.
My tenure as Comms spokesbot would last one presser, where I'd respond to a question about the latest KenLoss with something like "Yeah, well, that WAS some kind of shitshow, wasn't it..?"
Is it possible they think Ken did a great job and that Thorns fans will turn out no matter how lousy the team performs? Maybe they think the average Thorns fan believes Ken is wonderful? I hope not, but the Bhathal's silence is making me worry more and more.
I think it's worth keeping in mind that we here are a tiny - and I mean TINY - sliver of the fanbase. Most Thorns ticketbuyers aren't terminally online like we are here. They probably know the club crashed out early last season, but have no idea what we're going on and on about Ken and Karina, etc.
I think the owners don't honestly care that much about us...
This is my conclusion as well. They seem to believe the organizational risk of not sharing information is negligible, with the upside being they don’t have to answer questions about their plans and processes because no one knows what they are.
Re: Hubly- While I think she’s someone whose individual issues were exacerbated by the shape/coaching problems over the last two years, she’s also a largely flawed player with very clear issues on the ball, speed-wise, and with her passing. I don’t want to hear the same people who bitched —often excessively and unfairly— about her for the last four years all of a sudden act like she’s some massive loss because it fits the narrative. I also couldn’t care very much less about how it makes Soph feel. If she’s already pissed, she wouldn’t have re-signed because Kelli Hubly is on the roster, and Hubly leaving won’t be the reason she leaves. I’d also offer that there’s a very real possibility that Kelli and Eryk will be in the same (not Portland) city next year.
The big issue, as ever, is with the organization and whether Smith (and all of us!) have faith that there’s some semblance of a FO structure given there’s less than a week until 2025. I’m not sure this changes anything for me in either direction.
Yeah I think they end up in SD together. And I don't think Kelli will be sad about it while she's drinking her wine on the beach lol.
As you've said....Kelli was really not good. For many seasons now. It's the fault of the FO for not upgrading that position for way too long (where have we heard this before?) and therefore her slip was really consequential when we had no other options. She should've been a depth CB for at least 2 years now. And with that lower expectation we prob would've kept her on. It's gotta mean that Provenzano is gone too because she's not better than Kelli and offers even less as depth. Norris and Gale have been terrible for the defensive unit as a whole, which hasn't helped. The thing with Soph just rubs salt into what is actually prob the best decision for the club. It's a little unprofessional imo, on Soph's end to make a sly comment online, because she has to know by now that A) Kelli was a FA (it's not like she was traded against her will), and, B) that this is the nature of being a pro athlete. Players get let go. Our defense being bad doesn't help her do her job better! We have to make changes. But they need to upgrade, still, at CB. There's been a ton of churn and I'm not sure we're really better off now.
Anyways...still need a GM! Still have Gale as our coach! So, they can keep rotating deck chairs but I don't see any appreciable change happening until those things are resolved...
Overall, in isolation I'm not sad to see Kelli go. Doesn't move the needle for me either. Having a big deal made about it online because Soph made a dumb comment is stupid...I just wonder who is reshaping this roster. My guess is Norris.
Hubly's achilles heel as a player is, imo, that she lacks speed of thought. Not that she's dumb; lots of smart people don't think _quickly_. But she's visibly slow to react/decide on plays on multiple occasions in every game I've seen her play. That puts her under a lot more pressure and I think is the primary cause of the mistakes she seems to make during games. It also makes her _seem_ slower than she actually is (Hina's just the opposite: her superfast decision-making makes her seem faster than her actual physical pace).
I know I’ve been sounding like I’m slagging on Hubs. But for all that I agree that she has performance issues she’s still an NWSL replacement-grade CB, a decent-enough squad player.
Which makes the really frustrating part of this not the move itself but the club’s silence.
Did she ask for Sauerbrunn-level free agent money? Then it makes perfect sense to let her go! Paying a squad player star-quality money is Financial Stupidity 101. “Replacement-grade” is just that; they’re around to be signed.
But. Did she make a perfectly reasonable salary ask and the club wouldn’t agree? That’s dumb if you didn’t have a replacement lined up ready to ink and the squad player is a piece of squad cohesion (which sounds like the case here - sounds like lots of her teammates like her and want her around).
And we have - and never WILL have - no idea which and are reduced to this ridiculous social media tea-leaf reading.
And to think some folks were actually holding out hope that the new ownership would begin a new era of relative transparency, given the brick-wall opacity of the Peregrine-era FO. With one (huge and absolutely critical) exception: a sense of player safety, this ownership change has been a perfect "careful what you wish for" scenario so far.
I just commented that what's so insane is how simple it'd be to hold a regular presser to put out the club's messaging. Plus keep the team in the news cycle to whet interest in the coming season. Makes me truly question the Bhathals' sports IQ...
I would be really quite surprised if Rob Gale isn't having a big say in how the roster is being shaped right now. I imagine he and KK planned the first portion of the off-season at the end of last season.
As always, all of this is made worse by the lack of any explanation from the club. Two centre backs are gone! They were already short of one. The franchise superstar is upset about the move. We have no actual idea who is making these decisions. All of this festers as long as there's no information.
Best way I can summarize my feelings about everything: If this was a new GM clearing out the vets and handing the reins to Coffey, Smith, and Weaver….I’d feel fine. Great, even. This team needed to shift eras one way or another. It’s the uncertainty and lack of faith in *waves at everyone* that’s the issue.
I will say that I’m not worried about the lack of signings. They’ll bring people in, just as they did last January. I don't even have any issues with the moves themselves, in a vacuum. I’m more worried about the distinct possibility that they’ll totally fuck up the stuff they need to get right and then that those people in turn will fuck up the personnel decisions.
My feeling is that by this point the Bhathals have earned the benefit of skepticism; I’m assuming any January signings will be meh, that Ken is here in March, that Smith will be GM.
There are some interesting observations on Reddit that some careful sideline observation indicated that Sinc's sendoff would be Kling's last game. If I recall, some of us here predicated that as well.
I wonder if they are just timing these announcements so that each player gets their moment on social media.
I said the same! There was a pic of her and Becky from (I think)) Craig Mitchelldyer (was club photog for Timbers/Thorns) after the game and she was losing it....and we had just won 3-0. She was also losing it while all the players were hand in hand during the rose ceremony at the end.
It seemed a reasonable conclusion and aside from that emotional final home match, the reality is Kling had achieved pre-retirement status on a team in deep need of help most of the year.
12 appearances, 2 starts, 248 minutes logged.
I'll miss her, everybody will miss her. Kling's my tiny Pittsburg spirit animal.
Nobody will be picking her up and I doubt she wants to go to another team. What the Thorns might do to honor her and Becky is anybody's guess. Kling is technically the final Thorn gone, from the first squad I ever watched, back in the day. A few others still play, elsewhere.
Re Hubly: isn't it also possible that it was Hubly who said "thanks but no thanks" to negotiating a new deal with the Thorns because of her family situation? She and her partner may be relocating and looking to start a family- maybe there's no bad blood at all. And even Smith's SM post could just have meant an understandable "oh no I wish my teammate/friend weren't leaving" ?
I get really strong “end of 2015” feels only “without the aggressive moves to fix the problems”. IIRC Parsons was here well before the 2016 draft and he and GW were working on the Morgan trade and the Henry deal.
Lot of senior leadership and culture setters among the players has departed this off-season. This stuff does matter, especially when you have a weak coaching staff.
Kling especially seems like she was a huge presence in the squad. Even from the bench she was the leader in every pregame huddle.
Hopefully this doesn’t rule out her (or Sauerbrunn, or both!) returning as ACs. I get that her playing days are over…but you’d think she still has and wants to contribute.
If she and ‘Brunn just bail? I think that’s a real big ownership red flag…
We now have 21 players under contract. Macca will be 31 in February. Bella will turn 30 in December. Hina turns 28 in January. Bella's been with the club since 2019. Moultrie been part of the roster since 2019, though she started here earlier than that.
The youth movement is on, as is the search who will step in what ways as the next generation of leaders.
Losing Sinc, Becky, and Kling all at once is an irreplaceable amount of practical knowledge in soccer, leadership, teambuilding, camaraderie, on and on.
Yeah, and it just pisses fans off further when we have no insight from the FO (whom STILL includes KK making decisions.) It's like her last FU because players didn't like her. Getting rid of the vets, even if they aren't starters doesn't feel good. Because yeah, as you say...is that why they think 'ol Galey couldn't figure it out? If they do all of this just to keep him...woof.
I don’t see this as a deliberate “Save The Gales” thing, but I can see him basically escaping because the organization is too goofed up to get the GM hire/promotion (and I’m getting similar creepy feelings that this whole farce is likely to end up with some internal hire like Norris or Martinez..!) done in time to replace him.
And how long will people continue buying tickets? They can coast for a while, but not indefinitely. And the worse they let things get the harder the rebuild will be, both on the field and at the box office.
2026? If this year goes similar or worse than last year, I could see an exodus of fans begin. It was hard to sit though 2024, and we made the playoffs.
Its beyond me how you could buy a club like the Thorns and not feel a sense of urgency.
I don’t know whether the best guess is Mark Parsons swooping in to save us after Horan’s wedding, or that Mike Smith and/or Mike Norris are being internally promoted.
The "dar" is unable to see what's going on...probably because nothing is. Well, at least nothing regarding Parsons.
Parsons is a man with a plan, and that plan will be cleaning house. However, cleaning house is no longer Thorns culture. The current culture now "happy talk" in a league where happy talk doesn't win championships.
I’m baffled. Has Parsons ever said anything about “cleaning house”? I agree that the Bhathals have been too slow sweeping out the Peregrine stables…but I’m not sure where or why Parsons is on record complaining about that. Is he?
I my knowledge Parsons has never said anything. On the other hand, I live a half-day's driving like a bat out of hell from Portland and, therefore, am unable to listen to the grape vine. Tea leaves don't blow in this direction either. So, all I can do is draw a chalk line from here to PDX based upon what I think I heard a comment from a while back that said Parsons once had to wrestle with the front office to get the players he wanted (one of whom was Soph Smith? and perhaps Moultrie?).
Last I heard, the Oregonian is no longer available by print subscription...and last I tried to write a letter to the editor via the web I think I was blocked because I'm out of state.
He may be a crap human but Gavin Wilkinson - the "front office" for a big chunk of Parsons' tenure - was a damn effective GM in NWSL 1.0.
Parsons and Wilkinson worked in harness to assemble Parsons' squads starting with the huge 2015-16 offseason. GW helped set up the deal with Orlando that landed the Smith #1 pick in 2020. He led the club's legal team in fighting to get Moultrie's pro contract approved.
IOW, while Parsons may have fallen out with the Peregrine organization in the end, his association with it was productive and profitable for years. And AFAIK he's said absolutely nothing about RAJ other than that he loves Portland and the club.
A few years ago, somebody who knows a thing or eleven about international woso told me that KK was going to set the franchise back several years and that whatever his failings may have been, Gavin was a very good GM.
With the caveat that GW worked in the pre-FA NWSL, yes. I don't think anyone would argue he was incompetent, just (like a lot of Merritt's pals) kind of a dick.
Which is why I REALLY want the Bhathals to hunt down someone who's been a solid success in a free agent/transfer league. No more retreads!
Bottom line? Lots of the same problems we saw with Kenball: crude tactics, WAY too much hoof-and-hope, pointless lateral passes and then a long rainbow that typically went nowhere. The midfield, when it saw the ball, never figured out how to pass through opponents. The backline never re-created the sturdiness of 2017, and the attack was often barren.
Parsons’ substitutions were often inexplicable or just plain bizarre, at times even making the game state worse rather than maintaining things as-is or improving the team position.
FWIW, if the FO wanted to hire Parsons, why haven't they? Dude's unemployed, he's got tons of connections here...it'd seem painfully simple to sign him if he and they wanted to.
Not saying it's not possible and that there may be issues we're not seeing that's held it up. But...you'd think it'd have been done weeks ago if Parsons was the original target...
It’s unfortunate we can’t post pictures in comments anymore, but I’m guessing he’s referring to MarPar’s IG story of being at the airport about to fly out. In fact, it’s virtually the exact same picture he took a month back at the same airline and then appeared in Portland the next day for Sinc’s final game.
It’s an IG reel, so I’m not sure if you can watch it here or if I did it right, but I tried lol. Here’s the full interview in video form, it’s from a couple weeks ago: https://youtu.be/DR5PloA_0Cc?si=5yg8GBIEDChqb9Of
You can tell that he really has an emotional tie to this club and this city. It's def nice to have him giving us free PR! Lol. He's at least someone who remembers when we were one of the best clubs in woso.
I've been expecting the new GM to be announced since the day we crashed out of the playoffs. As of now, that was 47 days ago. The continued silence, with not so much as a "we're working on it" statement, has gotten frustrating.
fwiw, it's been fairly widely discussed that Parsons was on at least one shortlist for a HC job in recent weeks. So I don't think it's just a case of if they wanted to get him they would've without any difficulty
Given that Parsons has insisted that he's not done coaching that makes perfect sense; he would see a Thorns GM gig as a fallback if he doesn't get the coaching job he prefers, so he'd d play hard-to-get here until/if he gets passed over wherever-there-is...
I think the obvious favourite for a high profile coaching job is on vacation with their family in Sweden and the Netherlands right now, but I imagine it's done relatively quickly, assuming that person wants the job.
However it’s happened, we should really have a ton of $$$/cap space for some decent signings. Sinc and Becky retiring. Maybe Kling retiring but out either way. And Hubly out. That’s a lot of vet $$$ off the books.
Judging from her IG post, it does appears she chose this....so at least there's that. "This isn't the ending I wanted, but it's the ending I chose." Is that retirement?
I just mean the players were literally mad and even 3 of Hubly's longtime best friends from Chicago were posting angry comments saying the club was clueless. Sam Coffey's dad even posted being upset lol. Meaning, it was def not what Hubly wanted...regardless of what we think about the decision.
Anyone wants to hear what Carlos Martinez-Gloria sounds like... because we're sure not going to hear it from the Thorns FO... you can hear him interviewed as Houston Dash Assistant GM here. Cue the podcast to 28:00. It's from 202 so a bit dated, but it's fairly open-ended and it offers a sense of who he is. He seems pretty chill, conscientious, detail-oriented, and like a real fan of the game and the players. Organizationally, he seems like a "glue guy."
My understanding from his positions both with the the Thorns and the Dash is that he's on the people management/player relations side, not so much the technical side. I'd bet he's not involved much in anything we see directly (i.e technical aspects like tactics, scouting, transfers, contracts etc.)
Something about the timing of flying to Horan's wedding is leading me to suspect that Parsons is not our next GM or HC. Just doesn't read "I'm moving to Portland." 🤷🏽♂️
If this is how things are going for an already-existing franchise that has been around for more than a decade, won three championships, and has one of the top strikers and top defensive midfielders in the world, I can't even begin to imagine how it's going in trying to build a WNBA franchise from scratch.
yeah, that's Mike Smith by job description, but Mike Smith doesn't have that job title. I don't doubt that he's having to fill the void right now. I have no idea whether Karina is still pulling the strings, though. If she is, then we're in deep shit. Not just because Karina's gonna Karina, but because agents won't want to work with us if they know that Karina - whom they rightly see as a problem - is still pulling the strings.
Yeah she said in another comment that the assistant GM is also the director of recruiting, so yes, Mike Smith.
So did we just make up a new position? Promote from within…again? Wtf is that FO doing? Sounds like we don’t even really have a FO actually lol. What a shitshow
There’s another set of comments under the Thorns IG post (this person is followed by Hubly, Bixby, Ang Salem, Po, Simone Charley, and Britt so knows many players) who says that “this decision was all Kk.”
They also say “this was a personal decision from her, not one based on what’s best for the club. Disturbing (to say the least) that she still had input, let alone the power to make the decision. Owners are clueless….Buckle up cause of what I’m hearing about the next GM hire is true 😬”
Regardless what you feel about Hubly or the decision….I don’t love that an Academy staff person, as well as this other person who obv knows multiple players, are saying that KK is still making decisions, and/or that it’s her and Mike Smith. Like wtf are we doing, man? Where are the owners? Sounds like entire organization chaos.
I don't think RAJ are primarily interested in the Thorns. I think the Thorns were part of getting into the Portland WNBA opportunity. Nothing they've done this past year shows me that they're as committed or involved as Merritt was.
I'd be a bit surprised if so. Those of us terminally online know and fret over this stuff, but I'll bet the median Thorns/WoSo/soccer fan doesn't. Might be a drop if the poor play/results continue, tho.
What I have in mind would be if after this season Soph was to leave, and confirm or even hint that things are as dysfunctional as they seem, I can quite easily imagine a rapid drop in attendance. Even those median/casual fans wouldn't be happy w/ that scenario.
I'll confirm that Teubner's Twitter identified her as associated with the academy when I asked her about Smith. Now it doesn't, and I have no idea if she was misrepresenting herself initially or is now trying to disassociate herself having spoken out of turn.
Her twitter bio literally said she worked for the Thorns Academy like a half hour ago! Lol I have no idea but she just changed it. You can see her Thorns jersey in her profile pic still lol.
So, Sarah Teubner is a former collegiate soccer and basketball player who hails from Salem. She played soccer and basketball at Clark College, and soccer only I think at Grambling State.
Teubner says it's Mike Smith. But doesn't say "Mike Smith", instead responds to my direct question with: "Assistant GM is the director of recruiting, who’s also the youth sporting director and academy liaison…" So more word games from the FO.
Nobody, according to the club's website. Unless there's somebody who is listed under another job title who's doing GM work without the sign on the door?
What gets me is that the whole "keep the troops informed if you don't want troublesome morale issues developing" is kind of Management 101. Regardless of whether it's government or sports or business, being proactive about messaging - the message YOU want - is pretty universal and fundamental.
How hard is a weekly presser? You can placate the mob with generalities: "We've got (number) GM candidates in the interview stage, including two we're very hopeful about." "We worked with Kelli and her agent, and made what we feel was a very reasonable offer but were unable to reach an agreement." "We're currently looking over several promising player signings, including some NCAA players as well as pros currently playing overseas..."
Plus you keep the club in the news, keep public interest in the offseason. Win-win!
The club not taking this what-seems-simple-and-obvious way of doing this stuff is what makes me increasingly skeptical of the Bhathal's sports savvy, beyond the obvious boneheaded actions like Ken and Karina. This shouldn't be rocket science. But...
I agree completely. And proactive messaging, positive and ostensibly "informative" PR has been of such increasing and obvious importance over the past several decades that it's stunning to encounter monied interests who appear to be so oblivious to its value.
For heaven's sake, I would guess that college level public relations courses have drawn ever increasing interest for at least the past five decades. And I can think of numerous fairly prominent local examples where people have taken PR jobs upon leaving positions in media or government. Hire a pro to placate an uneasy fan base and this organization could well (or could have) stave(d) off a growing discontent among Thorns fans.
Chief, are you available for the GM job? Director of Communications? Both? How about HC?
My tenure as Comms spokesbot would last one presser, where I'd respond to a question about the latest KenLoss with something like "Yeah, well, that WAS some kind of shitshow, wasn't it..?"
Just stand in front of the entrance to the media room and do this:
https://youtu.be/GUfS_2UGftg?t=10
Is it possible they think Ken did a great job and that Thorns fans will turn out no matter how lousy the team performs? Maybe they think the average Thorns fan believes Ken is wonderful? I hope not, but the Bhathal's silence is making me worry more and more.
I think it's worth keeping in mind that we here are a tiny - and I mean TINY - sliver of the fanbase. Most Thorns ticketbuyers aren't terminally online like we are here. They probably know the club crashed out early last season, but have no idea what we're going on and on about Ken and Karina, etc.
I think the owners don't honestly care that much about us...
This is my conclusion as well. They seem to believe the organizational risk of not sharing information is negligible, with the upside being they don’t have to answer questions about their plans and processes because no one knows what they are.
Re: Hubly- While I think she’s someone whose individual issues were exacerbated by the shape/coaching problems over the last two years, she’s also a largely flawed player with very clear issues on the ball, speed-wise, and with her passing. I don’t want to hear the same people who bitched —often excessively and unfairly— about her for the last four years all of a sudden act like she’s some massive loss because it fits the narrative. I also couldn’t care very much less about how it makes Soph feel. If she’s already pissed, she wouldn’t have re-signed because Kelli Hubly is on the roster, and Hubly leaving won’t be the reason she leaves. I’d also offer that there’s a very real possibility that Kelli and Eryk will be in the same (not Portland) city next year.
The big issue, as ever, is with the organization and whether Smith (and all of us!) have faith that there’s some semblance of a FO structure given there’s less than a week until 2025. I’m not sure this changes anything for me in either direction.
Yeah I think they end up in SD together. And I don't think Kelli will be sad about it while she's drinking her wine on the beach lol.
As you've said....Kelli was really not good. For many seasons now. It's the fault of the FO for not upgrading that position for way too long (where have we heard this before?) and therefore her slip was really consequential when we had no other options. She should've been a depth CB for at least 2 years now. And with that lower expectation we prob would've kept her on. It's gotta mean that Provenzano is gone too because she's not better than Kelli and offers even less as depth. Norris and Gale have been terrible for the defensive unit as a whole, which hasn't helped. The thing with Soph just rubs salt into what is actually prob the best decision for the club. It's a little unprofessional imo, on Soph's end to make a sly comment online, because she has to know by now that A) Kelli was a FA (it's not like she was traded against her will), and, B) that this is the nature of being a pro athlete. Players get let go. Our defense being bad doesn't help her do her job better! We have to make changes. But they need to upgrade, still, at CB. There's been a ton of churn and I'm not sure we're really better off now.
Anyways...still need a GM! Still have Gale as our coach! So, they can keep rotating deck chairs but I don't see any appreciable change happening until those things are resolved...
Overall, in isolation I'm not sad to see Kelli go. Doesn't move the needle for me either. Having a big deal made about it online because Soph made a dumb comment is stupid...I just wonder who is reshaping this roster. My guess is Norris.
Hubly's achilles heel as a player is, imo, that she lacks speed of thought. Not that she's dumb; lots of smart people don't think _quickly_. But she's visibly slow to react/decide on plays on multiple occasions in every game I've seen her play. That puts her under a lot more pressure and I think is the primary cause of the mistakes she seems to make during games. It also makes her _seem_ slower than she actually is (Hina's just the opposite: her superfast decision-making makes her seem faster than her actual physical pace).
I know I’ve been sounding like I’m slagging on Hubs. But for all that I agree that she has performance issues she’s still an NWSL replacement-grade CB, a decent-enough squad player.
Which makes the really frustrating part of this not the move itself but the club’s silence.
Did she ask for Sauerbrunn-level free agent money? Then it makes perfect sense to let her go! Paying a squad player star-quality money is Financial Stupidity 101. “Replacement-grade” is just that; they’re around to be signed.
But. Did she make a perfectly reasonable salary ask and the club wouldn’t agree? That’s dumb if you didn’t have a replacement lined up ready to ink and the squad player is a piece of squad cohesion (which sounds like the case here - sounds like lots of her teammates like her and want her around).
And we have - and never WILL have - no idea which and are reduced to this ridiculous social media tea-leaf reading.
And to think some folks were actually holding out hope that the new ownership would begin a new era of relative transparency, given the brick-wall opacity of the Peregrine-era FO. With one (huge and absolutely critical) exception: a sense of player safety, this ownership change has been a perfect "careful what you wish for" scenario so far.
I just commented that what's so insane is how simple it'd be to hold a regular presser to put out the club's messaging. Plus keep the team in the news cycle to whet interest in the coming season. Makes me truly question the Bhathals' sports IQ...
I would be really quite surprised if Rob Gale isn't having a big say in how the roster is being shaped right now. I imagine he and KK planned the first portion of the off-season at the end of last season.
As always, all of this is made worse by the lack of any explanation from the club. Two centre backs are gone! They were already short of one. The franchise superstar is upset about the move. We have no actual idea who is making these decisions. All of this festers as long as there's no information.
I swear to god, this club keeps giving me Vietnam (movie) flashbacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo7lwU3ib4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SbLKl4C5Rw
Like look at this title, I can't even believe there's a news story about it already, it's so dumb lol:
https://prosoccerwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nwsl/2024/12/27/uswnt-star-smith-dismayed-thorns-announce-hubly-exit/77270389007/
"Portland has made one free agent addition thus far, signing center back Sam Hiatt from NJ/NY Gotham FC."
I'm confused?
We've only added one free agent so far, so that seems correct. I don't really consider int'l players included in that because they're all free agents.
Although, I do think Bella was a FA(?) and she re-signed. I dunno if that's considered an "addition", though.
Best way I can summarize my feelings about everything: If this was a new GM clearing out the vets and handing the reins to Coffey, Smith, and Weaver….I’d feel fine. Great, even. This team needed to shift eras one way or another. It’s the uncertainty and lack of faith in *waves at everyone* that’s the issue.
I will say that I’m not worried about the lack of signings. They’ll bring people in, just as they did last January. I don't even have any issues with the moves themselves, in a vacuum. I’m more worried about the distinct possibility that they’ll totally fuck up the stuff they need to get right and then that those people in turn will fuck up the personnel decisions.
My feeling is that by this point the Bhathals have earned the benefit of skepticism; I’m assuming any January signings will be meh, that Ken is here in March, that Smith will be GM.
I’d like to be wrong.
There are some interesting observations on Reddit that some careful sideline observation indicated that Sinc's sendoff would be Kling's last game. If I recall, some of us here predicated that as well.
I wonder if they are just timing these announcements so that each player gets their moment on social media.
I said the same! There was a pic of her and Becky from (I think)) Craig Mitchelldyer (was club photog for Timbers/Thorns) after the game and she was losing it....and we had just won 3-0. She was also losing it while all the players were hand in hand during the rose ceremony at the end.
It seemed a reasonable conclusion and aside from that emotional final home match, the reality is Kling had achieved pre-retirement status on a team in deep need of help most of the year.
12 appearances, 2 starts, 248 minutes logged.
I'll miss her, everybody will miss her. Kling's my tiny Pittsburg spirit animal.
Nobody will be picking her up and I doubt she wants to go to another team. What the Thorns might do to honor her and Becky is anybody's guess. Kling is technically the final Thorn gone, from the first squad I ever watched, back in the day. A few others still play, elsewhere.
Re Hubly: isn't it also possible that it was Hubly who said "thanks but no thanks" to negotiating a new deal with the Thorns because of her family situation? She and her partner may be relocating and looking to start a family- maybe there's no bad blood at all. And even Smith's SM post could just have meant an understandable "oh no I wish my teammate/friend weren't leaving" ?
Vibes are absolutely miserable rn lol
I get really strong “end of 2015” feels only “without the aggressive moves to fix the problems”. IIRC Parsons was here well before the 2016 draft and he and GW were working on the Morgan trade and the Henry deal.
Now..?
"Whiff of 15"
"Oh, man: you got some 2015 on your shoe."
Lot of senior leadership and culture setters among the players has departed this off-season. This stuff does matter, especially when you have a weak coaching staff.
Kling especially seems like she was a huge presence in the squad. Even from the bench she was the leader in every pregame huddle.
Hopefully this doesn’t rule out her (or Sauerbrunn, or both!) returning as ACs. I get that her playing days are over…but you’d think she still has and wants to contribute.
If she and ‘Brunn just bail? I think that’s a real big ownership red flag…
Nothing Kling has posted indicates she's retiring.
True. Other than all the stuff on IG about “closing” and “ending”….
Weak coaching staff and young group of players.
We now have 21 players under contract. Macca will be 31 in February. Bella will turn 30 in December. Hina turns 28 in January. Bella's been with the club since 2019. Moultrie been part of the roster since 2019, though she started here earlier than that.
The youth movement is on, as is the search who will step in what ways as the next generation of leaders.
Losing Sinc, Becky, and Kling all at once is an irreplaceable amount of practical knowledge in soccer, leadership, teambuilding, camaraderie, on and on.
It's gonna be a very interesting time next year.
Yeah, and it just pisses fans off further when we have no insight from the FO (whom STILL includes KK making decisions.) It's like her last FU because players didn't like her. Getting rid of the vets, even if they aren't starters doesn't feel good. Because yeah, as you say...is that why they think 'ol Galey couldn't figure it out? If they do all of this just to keep him...woof.
I don’t see this as a deliberate “Save The Gales” thing, but I can see him basically escaping because the organization is too goofed up to get the GM hire/promotion (and I’m getting similar creepy feelings that this whole farce is likely to end up with some internal hire like Norris or Martinez..!) done in time to replace him.
That’s…almost worse.
It's less incompetent and more indifference. They simply don't care as long as people are buying tickets and the club value is increasing.
And how long will people continue buying tickets? They can coast for a while, but not indefinitely. And the worse they let things get the harder the rebuild will be, both on the field and at the box office.
2026? If this year goes similar or worse than last year, I could see an exodus of fans begin. It was hard to sit though 2024, and we made the playoffs.
Its beyond me how you could buy a club like the Thorns and not feel a sense of urgency.
Hard to say just because we have no idea if they’re searching hard and getting no interest. That seems improbable, but we have no idea…
It looks like Phuoc knows something is coming soon…
https://x.com/phuocerman/status/1873445769673658547?s=46&t=Xqcn-ILJiYl3NWCnoazg7A
Or Phuoc just admitted he's leaving Dreamland and returning to Elfwood:
https://youtu.be/L_pj9fI7QAM?t=33
I, for one, would be thrilled if we signed Bean.
Let’s read far too much into this. I feel like Meghan Klingenberg is by far the most elflike person on the team
The NWSL now rightly frowns upon pre-game slappings on the bum-bum, full moon or otherwise.
Looks like she's returning to Elfwood.
…well
She can bring her gift bladder friend too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcG28tOaTk
It’s the name of the show…it’s on Netflix but I haven’t watched. I think it’s folks who worked on the Simpsons??
Correct! Simpsons and Futurama. Replete with multiple references to Beaverton.
I'm hoping we get a tuba-heavy Thorns anthem written by Mark Mothersbaugh,
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=896609892506564&id=100064726838947&set=a.557519446415612
Something Elfo-like in this visage, no?
I need to see the whole scene from Disenchantment to understand the context.
It's surprisingly hard to find a clip of Weirdo doing Weirdo. Shocko, on the other hand, readily available.
I don’t know whether the best guess is Mark Parsons swooping in to save us after Horan’s wedding, or that Mike Smith and/or Mike Norris are being internally promoted.
Ah, so it's not about Horan. It's about Sharon Horgan, aka "The Dag-marvelous Dagmar"!
only if he brings horan back with him
Anyone else’s Parsons-dar going off this morning?
Can we call it Pardar?
And get together for a couple beers and talk about it at a MarPar Pardar bar. Which for me, given my location, would be a far MarPar Pardar bar.
I'll see myself out...
Lol harharhar
The "dar" is unable to see what's going on...probably because nothing is. Well, at least nothing regarding Parsons.
Parsons is a man with a plan, and that plan will be cleaning house. However, cleaning house is no longer Thorns culture. The current culture now "happy talk" in a league where happy talk doesn't win championships.
I’m baffled. Has Parsons ever said anything about “cleaning house”? I agree that the Bhathals have been too slow sweeping out the Peregrine stables…but I’m not sure where or why Parsons is on record complaining about that. Is he?
I my knowledge Parsons has never said anything. On the other hand, I live a half-day's driving like a bat out of hell from Portland and, therefore, am unable to listen to the grape vine. Tea leaves don't blow in this direction either. So, all I can do is draw a chalk line from here to PDX based upon what I think I heard a comment from a while back that said Parsons once had to wrestle with the front office to get the players he wanted (one of whom was Soph Smith? and perhaps Moultrie?).
Last I heard, the Oregonian is no longer available by print subscription...and last I tried to write a letter to the editor via the web I think I was blocked because I'm out of state.
He may be a crap human but Gavin Wilkinson - the "front office" for a big chunk of Parsons' tenure - was a damn effective GM in NWSL 1.0.
Parsons and Wilkinson worked in harness to assemble Parsons' squads starting with the huge 2015-16 offseason. GW helped set up the deal with Orlando that landed the Smith #1 pick in 2020. He led the club's legal team in fighting to get Moultrie's pro contract approved.
IOW, while Parsons may have fallen out with the Peregrine organization in the end, his association with it was productive and profitable for years. And AFAIK he's said absolutely nothing about RAJ other than that he loves Portland and the club.
Now it can be told:
A few years ago, somebody who knows a thing or eleven about international woso told me that KK was going to set the franchise back several years and that whatever his failings may have been, Gavin was a very good GM.
Right on both counts.
With the caveat that GW worked in the pre-FA NWSL, yes. I don't think anyone would argue he was incompetent, just (like a lot of Merritt's pals) kind of a dick.
Which is why I REALLY want the Bhathals to hunt down someone who's been a solid success in a free agent/transfer league. No more retreads!
Okay..."unrecognizable" is kinda funny, since one thing that got Parsons his ticket out was his regression to the mean after 2016-17. I wrote a huge-ass article about that in 2019: https://rivetingpdx.com/2019/12/16/thorns-fc-final-grades-the-coaches-trainers-and-management/
Bottom line? Lots of the same problems we saw with Kenball: crude tactics, WAY too much hoof-and-hope, pointless lateral passes and then a long rainbow that typically went nowhere. The midfield, when it saw the ball, never figured out how to pass through opponents. The backline never re-created the sturdiness of 2017, and the attack was often barren.
Parsons’ substitutions were often inexplicable or just plain bizarre, at times even making the game state worse rather than maintaining things as-is or improving the team position.
So pot, kettle.
Well, let's just say I "like." Thus no reason to "delete." And "MarPar" is a fictional name anyway. No Names Named.
No. Why?
FWIW, if the FO wanted to hire Parsons, why haven't they? Dude's unemployed, he's got tons of connections here...it'd seem painfully simple to sign him if he and they wanted to.
Not saying it's not possible and that there may be issues we're not seeing that's held it up. But...you'd think it'd have been done weeks ago if Parsons was the original target...
It’s unfortunate we can’t post pictures in comments anymore, but I’m guessing he’s referring to MarPar’s IG story of being at the airport about to fly out. In fact, it’s virtually the exact same picture he took a month back at the same airline and then appeared in Portland the next day for Sinc’s final game.
Speaking of, randomly saw this recent short little blurb in which he gushes about Portland: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDL_vAXNXm2/?igsh=MW1uYXJ4cGdrbGpxOQ==
It’s an IG reel, so I’m not sure if you can watch it here or if I did it right, but I tried lol. Here’s the full interview in video form, it’s from a couple weeks ago: https://youtu.be/DR5PloA_0Cc?si=5yg8GBIEDChqb9Of
Wow! Gushing is right. You could turn that clip into a commercial to attract fans and players.
You can tell that he really has an emotional tie to this club and this city. It's def nice to have him giving us free PR! Lol. He's at least someone who remembers when we were one of the best clubs in woso.
I've been expecting the new GM to be announced since the day we crashed out of the playoffs. As of now, that was 47 days ago. The continued silence, with not so much as a "we're working on it" statement, has gotten frustrating.
fwiw, it's been fairly widely discussed that Parsons was on at least one shortlist for a HC job in recent weeks. So I don't think it's just a case of if they wanted to get him they would've without any difficulty
Given that Parsons has insisted that he's not done coaching that makes perfect sense; he would see a Thorns GM gig as a fallback if he doesn't get the coaching job he prefers, so he'd d play hard-to-get here until/if he gets passed over wherever-there-is...
Yeah, do you think that *other* spot is gonna announce who soon, or? I imagine one shoe drops immediately after the other…
I think the obvious favourite for a high profile coaching job is on vacation with their family in Sweden and the Netherlands right now, but I imagine it's done relatively quickly, assuming that person wants the job.
However it’s happened, we should really have a ton of $$$/cap space for some decent signings. Sinc and Becky retiring. Maybe Kling retiring but out either way. And Hubly out. That’s a lot of vet $$$ off the books.
Judging from her IG post, it does appears she chose this....so at least there's that. "This isn't the ending I wanted, but it's the ending I chose." Is that retirement?
As I replied below, tho; still doesn’t rule out Kling not getting an offer and “choosing” to retire rather than look elsewhere.
Yeah, that part is opaque. She does also say " And as every athlete knows, getting to choose your ending is a rare gift..."
Fwiw, the responses from the players (on her post) seem very different than with the Hubly news.
Two very different people.
Hubs seems like someone who’s “fun”…which isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
Kling is like the team spirit mascot…
I just mean the players were literally mad and even 3 of Hubly's longtime best friends from Chicago were posting angry comments saying the club was clueless. Sam Coffey's dad even posted being upset lol. Meaning, it was def not what Hubly wanted...regardless of what we think about the decision.
Whereas with Kling, it's all happy goodbyes.
Interesting.
Yeah, it isn’t really “controversial” to see a veteran hang ‘em up. Kling’s had a good run, and seems to be closing the door without rancor.
But to get a monster case of red ass because a squad player gets cut? Umm…
Anyone wants to hear what Carlos Martinez-Gloria sounds like... because we're sure not going to hear it from the Thorns FO... you can hear him interviewed as Houston Dash Assistant GM here. Cue the podcast to 28:00. It's from 202 so a bit dated, but it's fairly open-ended and it offers a sense of who he is. He seems pretty chill, conscientious, detail-oriented, and like a real fan of the game and the players. Organizationally, he seems like a "glue guy."
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/ari-lassiter-carlos-martinez-gloria--40679004
Are you thinking he’ll be our full time GM?
Not from what I just heard, no. But I'm guessing he's handling a bunch of stuff for the ex-GM who is acting as GM in absentia.
My understanding from his positions both with the the Thorns and the Dash is that he's on the people management/player relations side, not so much the technical side. I'd bet he's not involved much in anything we see directly (i.e technical aspects like tactics, scouting, transfers, contracts etc.)
I feel pretty confident that it’s going to be an internal promotion. Again.
I'm slowly coming to that conclusion too. The club is in youth movement/rebuild mode, with which internal hires would plausibly coincide.
fwiw, Mark Parsons is currently in Colorado Springs.
Hit me with your best theories.
I was gonna guess he was helping Joe Kenda with a cold case (private joke from an ID addict).
Horan's wedding
Bullseye! She's definitely at the same place.
Nice! Good for Lindsey.
Visiting the Air Force Academy?
Skiing? It's raining ATM in the Sierra so Tahoe vacationers are miffed.
Something about the timing of flying to Horan's wedding is leading me to suspect that Parsons is not our next GM or HC. Just doesn't read "I'm moving to Portland." 🤷🏽♂️
I think this is probably true.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!
ROFL
If this is how things are going for an already-existing franchise that has been around for more than a decade, won three championships, and has one of the top strikers and top defensive midfielders in the world, I can't even begin to imagine how it's going in trying to build a WNBA franchise from scratch.
Sarah Teubner (who works in the Thorns Academy), says (sorta) that Mike Smith is "Assistant GM", by which I think she means "Acting GM": https://x.com/sarahteubner22/status/1872859346729877719
yeah, that's Mike Smith by job description, but Mike Smith doesn't have that job title. I don't doubt that he's having to fill the void right now. I have no idea whether Karina is still pulling the strings, though. If she is, then we're in deep shit. Not just because Karina's gonna Karina, but because agents won't want to work with us if they know that Karina - whom they rightly see as a problem - is still pulling the strings.
Someone who knows many past/present players (ie players are following them) commented that it was still Karina on their IG post…(they weren’t happy)
Yeah, I know one agent who doesn’t want to work with her (separate from the one you know lol.)
And we thought 2024 was a down year....
But when I ask directly she says "I can't answer" my speculations on Smith.
Yeah she said in another comment that the assistant GM is also the director of recruiting, so yes, Mike Smith.
So did we just make up a new position? Promote from within…again? Wtf is that FO doing? Sounds like we don’t even really have a FO actually lol. What a shitshow
https://x.com/sarahteubner22/status/1872826583322640778?s=46 who the hell is the assistant General Manager?
There’s another set of comments under the Thorns IG post (this person is followed by Hubly, Bixby, Ang Salem, Po, Simone Charley, and Britt so knows many players) who says that “this decision was all Kk.”
They also say “this was a personal decision from her, not one based on what’s best for the club. Disturbing (to say the least) that she still had input, let alone the power to make the decision. Owners are clueless….Buckle up cause of what I’m hearing about the next GM hire is true 😬”
Regardless what you feel about Hubly or the decision….I don’t love that an Academy staff person, as well as this other person who obv knows multiple players, are saying that KK is still making decisions, and/or that it’s her and Mike Smith. Like wtf are we doing, man? Where are the owners? Sounds like entire organization chaos.
I don't think RAJ are primarily interested in the Thorns. I think the Thorns were part of getting into the Portland WNBA opportunity. Nothing they've done this past year shows me that they're as committed or involved as Merritt was.
They don't care about the WNBA either. They care about getting in on the Rose Quarter redevelopment deal.
Right you are!
The puzzle is starting to make sense. These owners don't give two shits about the Thorns. Wonder if Paulson gets a cut of the deal?
But hey, at least we got rid of Merritt Paulson (and basically soured him on football in general), eh?
Yeah, I didn't take it as a good sign when the Thorns FO was suggesting giving season tickets as a Christmas gift.
When I read that, I was reminded of the old Dennis Miller punchline:
"Hey folks, two of shit is shit. If they really wanted to fuck you they'd give you three of these things."
If things continue along these lines, I'm thinking there'll be multiple four digit attendance figures at Thorns home matches for the first time ever.
I'd be a bit surprised if so. Those of us terminally online know and fret over this stuff, but I'll bet the median Thorns/WoSo/soccer fan doesn't. Might be a drop if the poor play/results continue, tho.
What I have in mind would be if after this season Soph was to leave, and confirm or even hint that things are as dysfunctional as they seem, I can quite easily imagine a rapid drop in attendance. Even those median/casual fans wouldn't be happy w/ that scenario.
Also, now looks like Tuebner changed her bio, which used to say she worked in the Academy.
Now it says “once upon a time I worked for a soccer club”
Wtf?! Mess!
Once I built a railroad, I made it run
Made it race against time
Once I built a railroad, now it's done
Brother, can you spare a dime?
I'll confirm that Teubner's Twitter identified her as associated with the academy when I asked her about Smith. Now it doesn't, and I have no idea if she was misrepresenting herself initially or is now trying to disassociate herself having spoken out of turn.
This is weird, even for Thorn World.
Have Teubner and Nasello ever been spotted in the same place at the same time?
Strange, but...
I think she worked/works for Washington Timbers.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-teubner-861607160
Her twitter bio literally said she worked for the Thorns Academy like a half hour ago! Lol I have no idea but she just changed it. You can see her Thorns jersey in her profile pic still lol.
Seems like she's spilled tea and is in over her head.
Yeah seems so, whoops!
But damn, what a mess lol
So, Sarah Teubner is a former collegiate soccer and basketball player who hails from Salem. She played soccer and basketball at Clark College, and soccer only I think at Grambling State.
Teubner says it's Mike Smith. But doesn't say "Mike Smith", instead responds to my direct question with: "Assistant GM is the director of recruiting, who’s also the youth sporting director and academy liaison…" So more word games from the FO.
Nobody, according to the club's website. Unless there's somebody who is listed under another job title who's doing GM work without the sign on the door?