- Vasconcelos: I have no idea where her burst came from after looking so utterly useless in preseason, but she had the ACFC RB on skates the whole first half. Really happy for her.
- Moultrie: I just love watching her play- It’s so rare for a 17 year old to step into a midfield and immediately exert control over it, but she’s rapidly becoming undroppable in my eyes. She’s a perfectly functioning metronome with outstanding technical ability.
-Reyes: Struggled a bit in the first half, excellent in the second. Tireless runner with developing skill on the ball. Think we might have Kling’s heir.
- Weaver: Beat the damn breaks off Spencer time after time after time after she came on. Looked like a completely different tier of athlete. Pretty cool goal too.
The bad:
- Nally/Provenzano: Impossibly slow. Cannot and should not be on the field together ever again. Directly responsible for the equalizer. No more please!
- The ref: Two out of the three times she got hit with the ball were because she wasn’t paying attention and had her back turned. Both times stopped great counter attack opportunities. Also missed the last corner go off of Soph, but I ain’t complaining!
Special mention to Porter, who was really steady in midfield, and Izzy who played a great ball into Vasconcelos, but missed two golden opportunities.
Also, Thompson is a beast. Her speed is simply amazing, and the effort she made to draw the penalty was great. To be able to stop on a dime and track back to the ball before Hogan could pounce was crazy. I will say that Nally should have put a body on her, but all credit goes to Thompson on that play.
Provenzano is the case study of just not fast enough. She was a great college player, but the foot speed is not there. I was hoping that anticipation would overcome it like it did with Becky, but I think Becky and Sam have made themselves more athletic over the years with drills. I wanted her to succeed, because she is a smart player. The USL might be a better place for her because she’s playing tentatively and those that watched Rutgers, that’s actually a surprise. I expected slow, but I also expected decisive
Agreed- She clearly has the right ideas, but the athletic disadvantage is too much to overcome. Even Coffey and Becky, while certainly not the quickest, are both in a completely different athletic tier than Provenzano (or Nally, for that matter).
Vasconcelos had a really nice game. I have been critical of her coming on over other players, but last night she showed she can contribute.
D'Aquila also had a really good game. The crossbar was really unkind to her, but that pass was a thing of beauty. The Keeper had a really difficult decision to make on that pass, and I don't think she wins if she stayed on her line.
It's great to see a quality athlete have a resurgence when her body is no longer holding her back. I know little about her and see she had an ACL tear in 2019 and has basically been rehabbing ever since, even while playing for various teams. This year she seems to have turned a corner, which is gratifying both for her and the Thorns, who will be desperate for strikers during WWC.
Interesting she was a scoring midfielder in college--30 goals, 27 assists at BYU. I'm more accustomed to seeing forwards reengineered into midfielders. First-rounder in 2017.
I had no idea she had so much flair to her game. She looks like someone who clearly had some gas in an earlier life, but still has justtt enough left in the tank to contribute. Trickier than she looks!
Early bedtime east coaster here. Saw this in my inbox this AM and before I could delete it, I saw what I thought was the spoiling "Things didn't turn out as Portland expected". Watching the replay, I was on the edge of my seat the last 3 mins of stoppage time, expecting an equalizer. Y'all trying to give me a heart attack? 🤣
I'm glad they won because I think these secondary contests are important for the Thorns to win if they can. Over the years they've won games due to their reputation. Sometimes because the other team gorks it or they remember who they are. Winning breeds winning.
Glad the players are still in the hunt for the Big Payday (other than that I’d be fine if the club went out in the group stage…)
Holy shit is ACFC bad; even against a heavily rotated Thorns they had nothing going forward except Thompson and were a mess in back.
That said, there’s something off in the Thorns (players and Norris) - tactics? headspace? both? - when playing from a lead. There’s no way in hell that should have needed a slug of starters to make 93rd minute magic. Forced to chase against that monster attack should have opened space the Thorns could exploit. Up 2-nil could have ended 5-nil but should at least have STAYED 2-nil. If this outfit could figure that out they’ll steamroll to another star.
Part of that is discipline - way too many people overcommitted and got skinned when they just needed to manage the match. Poor Nally is really struggling with that; she’s just not a clever player.
I thought Reyes looked good all evening, and D’Aquila was sharp for an hour (couple of late attempts she’ll want back, tho).
So…now the real thing looms; Seattle away. Let’s thump those wenches and get on the bus.
Y'all ought to drive up to Lumen and make yourselves loud pests. I would but....you know. Luckily, it's on CBSSN, "Where sports go to die" so I'm assured no viewing in any capacity.
Really curious which Reign and which Thorns show up for this one. Each has been schizophrenic this year. The wrong combo could easily yield a 4-0 match.
Yeah, I was poking around their records against common opponents and came away thinking "Talk about "form doesn't hold" here..." This one's going to be a real black box depending on which club(s) show up.
Yeah, I could really see it going super lopsided for either side. We can score but we can't defend. Reign can sometimes score and sometimes defends. Not sure I wanna watch it lol.
Well Thornando, I think you saw why some of the backend of the roster doesn't play much.
I thought tonight was invaluable. The Thorns played the same way as they do in a regular season game, and you could see clearly the issues that causes lesser center backs in Nally and Provenzano. I think it causes the first choice centre backs issues too, but it was glaring. Thompson wins a PK after burning both of them!
Norris talked about managing transitions, and the biggest thing, I think, is changing the balance to 4/6 or 5/5, rather than what it is right now, which is 3/7. So if that means sitting a full back deeper or dragging a midfielder next to the #6, so be it. Otherwise, transitions will keep killing the Thorns.
Transitions are definitely the underlying problem with the high FBs and midfield - I actually didn’t think it was a *huge* issue tonight in particular, but it got real ugly the one time Thompson got isolated on Provenzano and Nally without FB or modified help.
Regardless, “managing transitions” is your job, Norris: Its a tactical problem more than anything else, and it’s one that should be relatively straightforward to remedy.
Lets be honest, the first goal was good, but the defense did a poor job of closing out. You can't wait for a player to reach the box AND THEN retreat on defense. Good shot, but poor defense.
Yeah, I saw Kuikka get caught too far up waaay too many times in like the first 15 minutes of her playing. It really looks like it's a coaching thing.
But, she was culpable with that first goal. She gave her way too much space and time to get that shot off after the player just dribbled laterally into the box. WIth Nally and Prov as your CB's, you HAVE to do better than that.
Yeah, Rifer had the same reaction; I think his comment was that the Thorns seem to think that being up 2-nil means they should finish 5-nil. Nobody's transitioning to managing the match and tightening up in the defensive half. And that was against ACFC who, even at full strength, is not a very good side...
Ummm…that was Rifer’s comment; that the pushing up doesn’t seem to have an “off” button. Up one, two, three…they’re still pushing up. there doesn’t seem like a mindset to tighten up and see the game out.
It’s funny tho, because all last year the comments round here were all “why do they always turtle with a lead?”
Obviously there’s a happy medium to be found, but in this case I tend to think it is more tactical than mental for the reasons Rifer and others have observed.
right, I mean I disagree with the notion that it's a mindset thing. I think it's pretty obviously tactical because it's happened with different players and combinations.
Just because there is a player on the roster who is clearly the #1 in the positional depth chart is no reason why we should never see the #2, in some cases. I'd say that's true of Porter and Hogan.
It's also good to see, as you note, why some players don't see the pitch -- but, then again, why at this point are they even here? It's not impossible to buy out a squad player's contract.
Finally, it's nice to see folks you could put out there for a few minutes late in a match, building their confidence and rewarding their effort in training with seeing the pitch with at least some regularity. I'd put Betfort in that latter category. Every time I see her, I see glimmers of things, and obviously I see her size, but more than anything she just looks uncertain.
It’s a combo. Since we love tiers around here, I’d put it this way:
Tier 1- Level doesn’t go down when they start: Moultrie, Reyes, Menges, Hogan
Tier 2- Good squad players who can do a job, but a noticeable drop off from the players ahead of them: D’Aquila, Vasconcelos, Porter, McGrady, Leon
Tier 3- Major liabilities when they play: Nally, Provenzano, Betfort (who I thought played her cleanest game last night), Beckman
In response to your question: Teams aren’t just the players that see the field in any sport, but especially soccer- They practice every day, socialize with the team, and are needed for actual game minutes every so often, as we saw last night. Most importantly, it’s their career: If NWSL squads didn’t have the number of roster spots they do, we’d have the WNBA problem where there’s tons of good players unable to make it in the league simply because there’s not enough spots. Like I’ve said before, the gap between the Thorns' top and bottom end is much more noticeable than than other NWSL teams- That doesn’t mean the bottom end shouldn’t have a roster spot.
I'm pretty sure the Thorns don't use their roster as a welfare system for players who will never play. It's more that they need break-glass-in-case-of-emergency players, ones who can adequately fill in if the several players ahead of them go down injured. If the injury picture remains okay, though, they may never see the field.
That’s not at all what I’m saying- It’s that the NWSL (and all soccer leagues) have players at the bottom of rosters that don’t play and make less money, but are still functional and important parts of the club and the league’s ecosystem. No team has 25 players you feel comfortable being on the field in competitive matches, but it’s important that the league has the ability to support the careers of those players....which obviously hasn’t always been the case in NWSL.
I also think it's an adjustment for us. Beckman and Provenzano are from maybe this regime's draft but at a transitional point from Parsons, and the HC who oversaw that draft is gone. From this year's draft, one draftee is already gone, the other is a goalkeeper, the other was a consensus first round pick.
This was something Parsons was great at and the back of that roster was probably a little better in quality. But I'd imagine all of these players have something about them that stands out; we might not see it here because of how they develop, or because of the coaching here.
Also, there are more teams now, which means more roster spots- Since the Thorns' Parsons era, the NWSL has added three expansion teams with two more on their way AND have a CBA that makes it more feasible for rookies and second year players to hang around while still making a half decent living.
AND: The 2017 team had 10 players (8 if you don't count Tobin and Morris) play less than 300 minutes. It's not like even Parsons was using the end of the bench all that much.
She's got Po no thoughts just vibes energy, and also a lot of running. Her set up for D'Aquila was a really nice bit of intelligent play, and I thought yesterday was the best we've seen of her combination of physicality and energy.
I did see some nice passing with her back to goal last night, which I don't remember seeing in her bag beforehand. It would make sense that would be how she'd play best, though, because she does seem pretty strong. I think it's a way to exploit her strengths better when she's on the field.
Initially when she was first getting minutes, they were just trying to use her as a typical 9 where they use her speed and send in crosses from the wing to her feet, but that really wasn't working because she's got a stone first touch and not a lot of control even after.
I'm also pretty sure she played a lot of CB in college as well, so she's a player that never really got to become a student of any one position. At least putting her at CF and having her be predominately there is less risky than putting her in defense also.
Culture and chemistry are about more than talent, no doubt. But...
if you have squad players that aren't good enough to see the field at all, then how much can they be helping you in training?
There are players whose value is measured more in terms of them being good on the road, good in the community, good in the locker room, etc., but usually those are seasoned vets rather than young players.
Miami and Golden State have these kinds of elder statesmen -- Udonis Haslem and Andre Iguodala. They don't play anymore, but once upon a time they COULD play and they're still around because they're great for the younger players.
I have a hard time imagining that our squad players who are major liabilities when they play, as you put it, aren't also major liabilities when they train.
But maybe there's more to it than just needing someone to move the piano and someone to play the piano. You surely also need someone to tune the piano. And perhaps you also need someone to listen to the performance and applaud it.
Beyond the fact that I do disagree that you need to be able to be a good NWSL player or a vet to have an impact in training and off the field, you’re not getting really useful players to fill out the bottom of an NWSL team. It’s just not going to happen. If a player is good enough to play real minutes, they won’t settle for being the 20th woman on the Thorns, or likely on any NWSL roster.
It’s important that the NWSL can support a real-sized soccer roster where the 20th woman feels like she has a shot in the league...but that also doesn’t mean that the 20th player (often a rookie) is going to be good enough to get minutes over established players who have shown themselves to be good enough.
The lower end of every roster has players that could be replaced and the level of talent that comes out of college every year should put some of these players at risk. I think the USL is going to show that there are more players that can be solid backups and maybe a few unseen starter quality types
Also some good news from Ryan Clarke earlier: "Becky Sauerbrunn (foot) trained in full today. Mike Norris said the Thorns are hopeful that she’ll be available for limited minutes on Saturday at OL Reign."
Vaguely confused how Ertz/Henry works structurally, but I suppose Mandy can play a little higher if needed. Gonna be bitch to play against if nothing else.
Not much of a foundation for the future with 34 year old Henry on a 3(!) year deal and 31 year old Ertz. Unsure exactly what this does.
I'm not sure Ertz continues after this year. I figure she has to play to play in the WWC, but I don't quite have the sense that she's there for the long haul.
No, you're right about that. It's just that she took a long time to come back and seems to have enjoyed not being on the hamster wheel. She only came back to play for ACFCNFT because Vlatko said she had to play for a club if she wanted to be able to play for country.
Yeah, her partner (and baby!) live in Arizona. I can't imagine she'd stay past this season simply for that reason...
I think she's playing simply to have her last WC hoo-rah and then will retire afterwards. Henry sounds like a more long term vision for AC, likely at the 6. It would be weird if they were both there. Side note, but also, how? I would've sworn they had no more cap space after Ertz, but Henry too??
I sure hope ACFC’s planning on a soon to be 34 year old on a 3 year contract acting as the backbone of their midfield! I love Amendine, but as we’ve seen, it ain’t easy to sustain that kind of level in your mid-late 30s, especially as a 6.
I actually thought Ertz was older than she was- I’d do whatever I could to keep her around if I were them, tho again, as Aidan noted above, I don’t think they have a real process.
I wonder if the three year contract is structured to back-load salary. Henry can't play at all for ACFC until Jun 28 when the transfer window actually opens, and now that Diacre is out of France, she's probably going to the WC around then. Most likely Henry is playing ~ 2 months at most. So pay a little as you can this year for cap reasons, and assume Ertz leaves and frees up space.
But honestly, I do not understand how ACFC has been doing their books. Press still on the SEI keeps cap free, but LeRoux and Thompson must be expensive too.
It should go without saying but Moultrie should be a nailed on starter. That she has to job share with Sinc, while likely inevitable, is a waste of a real talent.
For real... I hope Sinc finally gets her World Cup Gold and gets to do an extended victory tour around every province in Canada coming back just in time to unveil the massive statue of her that we have built spanning the Willamette during the Thorns' Cup and Shield wins.
This is interesting to hear, because I was complimenting Coffey's nice touch on free kicks recently. Pretty lucky to have two midfielders with such a great touch.
Why I'm hopping against all odds TGH comes back for One Last Season, because her tutoring Liv would help elevate and accelerate her game significantly. Their paths are pretty similar when you think about it, and Moultrie is still growing, becoming faster and more physical as she develops the soccer smarts. You can't tell at 17 but she could become a real midfield boss.
Also, #3 set piece option behind Kling and Sam? Not bad (although I kind of want her in the box, receiving the ball).
I was super impressed with the development of Weaver. She’s always created havoc, but not at this level. She still makes the frustrating play, but the level of opportunities she creates is really nice to see and I saw three shots in two games that she doesn’t make last year. That game ender is like she’s walking hockey
Moultrie starts. I now feel bad about my terrible take about not protecting her. I was wrong.
Earlier in the season, she mentioned in a post-game that this was the first off-season that she hired a personal trainer to work with. And then yesterday she had the funny comments about 'Hina's Hip Mobility Class' she's been doing because she's actively working on how to use her body in different ways to score. She works so hard during games and always seems to have a great attitude, so it's great seeing it pay off.
If you've watched any of Moultrie's home training w/ a trainer over the years (even as a kid), it's something that she's always worked on. And, it shows. She's got amazing service and weight on her balls for the most part, in all different set piece scenarios. There was one corner she took last night that wasn't great, but I only see that once in a blue moon.
Henderson did the Challenge Cup heavy lifting to show xG graphs for the match: Izzy's # is top among all players and barely behind the entire ACFC squad.
I hesitate to write this, since opinion seems to be so anti-Nally, but I thought she did a pretty good job of containing Thompson. From where I sit on the west side it looked like she stymied her one-v-one in the corner several times in the first half. Henderson has Thompson's xG for the game at .11. I know she doesn't require a big xG number to score, and of course she did draw the penalty that led to Emslie's goal, bit still... If that suggests an overall bad job by Nally I'd honestly like to understand how.
She was fine in the first half- Kept up with Thompson once or twice. It helps having some speed next to her. Once she was paired with Provenzano is was all over.
I agree she's not fast, but she was very quick to react to Thompson's attempts to get around her, and she refused to commit. I'm not aware of a statistic for jockeying, but I thought she did that very well.
I agree with this. From our vantage in 121 I thought Nally did pretty ok, except on the two goals. I thought on the first she gave the shooter way too much space. On the play that ended up in the penalty Provenzano was beaten so badly with no backup by Nally. Those two cannot be on the back line together.
Thompson is an amazing athlete. Not many in the league with that speed
I was thinking about expansion protection last night (as one does), and was wondering how Janine Beckie would be treated with it. She's not even a starter, even if she was fit. But, I can't see KK spending all of that money for her to not protect her (also, I can't see her doing that to her friend.) But, who's spot does she take? A rhetorical question...I haven't worked it out on paper yet, so I have no idea who'd be on the bubble.
They could protect 9 in the last double expansion. Those players: Bella Bixby, Crystal Dunn, Lindsey Horan, Natalia Kuikka, Emily Menges, Olivia Moultrie, Raquel Rodriguez, Sophia Smith, and Morgan Weaver.
I honestly don't think Bella should get one of those protected spots, same with Menges. Worth mentioning that Coffey, Hubly, and the rest of the olds (we have several) were not protected. Very curious about Dunn, because she's a free agent next year, I believe. If she gives any indication she wants to go elsewhere, I think we'll see that in whether she's protected or not. In a recent podcast episode with her on, she's said she'd totally go back to Chelsea, if they'd have her. So, I don't think she's tethered to Portland, unfortunately. Horan, well, we gotta hear confirmation at some point soon from our FO, since her loan was up "through June."
If it's 9 again, who do you protect? Mine: Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Sugita, Moultrie, Kuikka, Dunn, Horan (if we have to? But losing her rights for nothing would be BS and bad FO work), Reyes. That's of course, if Dunn commits to staying. If she doesn't? Or if Horan is out? I'd choose between Rocky (29), Hubly (28), and Izzy (21). There's no way I can fit Beckie in there. I'm inclined to say Izzy because of her age and her ceiling seems high. I'd surely bet Bay FC would have their eyes on her...a former Bronco is an owner and would nab her in a second. But, I can't see us not protecting Hubly, or Rocky. Whew, gonna be a rough one....
A random side note that I thought was interesting....we've heard a lot of noise recently about her staying in France, but, only a few days AFTER all of that noise (6 days ago), the Thorns posted a couple pictures of her on their instagram wishing her a happy birthday. "Celebrating you on your special day! Happy birthday to The Great Horan" I think if there was a full transfer of her rights being negotiated, they wouldn't have put out this post to their social media. But, who knows?
I don't see that there has to be an expansion draft this time around. With the huge franchise fees being paid, the league could probably give each new team $5-8 million as a one-time "buy yourself a team" gift. Bear in mind that much of it would come right back assuming the noobs buy mostly NWSL players, essentially moving money from the left pocket to the right. Maybe toss in draft picks 1, 3, 5 and 2, 4, 6 (there could be a draw at the very start of the draft broadcast) to flesh out the roster. For the existing teams this would surely be a better way to keep your core together while maybe picking up $$$ for a couple front-of-the-bench players. For the new teams, they could pick up a couple flashy internationals, a flock of decent-to-good NWSL players and those three early-round draft picks.
Exactly this- There’s no reason for there to be an expansion draft. Give ‘em extra money and the entire first round of the draft and let’s get moving. There’s free-agency too, so there’s another way to add players.
For a league that professes to want player stability and autonomy, expansion drafts are ridiculously antiquated.
Expansion has never met its objectives. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the lambs get slaughtered (SDW aside). If you consider NCC as an extension of WNYF, then the only non-original NWSL club to take ANY trophy was Houston in a Challenge Cup. So even after ten years, the expansion teams are still being beaten with the wooden spoon.
I get your point, but I don’t fully agree- The top end has gotten bigger and better since expansion (which was always going to happen), and I don’t really think the bottom end has gotten any worse. The expansion teams *aren’t* getting slaughtered anymore because they’re the teams with dedicated owners with interest in generating real fan bases, and their branding and spend backs that up. The teams that are getting overrun are the existing teams with little interest in getting better and growing a fans base at the same pace the league is growing- Orlando in particular, but NCC as well.
I think you could argue that the gap in resources and pull has gotten bigger, but that’s the nature of bringing money and interest into the league. The bottom end of the league has more talent than it did 5 years ago- Hell, Houston certainly is pulling in more, Louisville is dysfunctional but has undeniable roster talent, and even Orlando seems to be gaining some on-field stability.
At the end of the day, it’s kinda put up or shut up time for the franchises that have just coasted along for years, and that’s been triggered by the entry of the three Cali teams and KC. In the meantime, we still have a five way race at the top of the table and more parity than ever, so I’m not too worried.
Worth pointing out that our protected list meant nothing because we did deals with both teams. We had to submit one because the deal with San Diego took a little time and wasn't complete by that deadline. I can't quite remember, but I think it wasn't done officially until after the expansion draft, and we're lucky that San Diego honored the handshake without taking a hostage.
I anticipate that everyone is going to do that route again. Expansion teams want players who want to be there and there is a growing push toward more player autonomy. The league gives expansion teams extra allocation money as a tradable asset, and free agency allows them to recruit in other ways too.
If you have to make a list: Smith, Coffey, Dunn, Reyes, Weaver, Moultrie, Hubly, Sugita, Kuikka with a few caveats. Moultrie will be 18 by then, so no longer under the mandatory protection required by the league. I wonder if she's planning to go overseas as soon as she turns 18 though and I think her contract is up this year? So maybe not worth protecting if you've had that conversation about her plans. Similar with Kuikka and Sugita, if the contracts are up end of season and they plan on leaving. I think we'd have to protect Horan if she's on loan, but really we need to sell her now, otherwise we probably getting nothing back for her. Next three protected for me are Rocky, Izzy, Beckie/Menges.
Yeah we always spend so much time discussing expansion draft lists and then it doesn’t turn out to matter on draft day. Players usually want to stay where they are and teams want players that want to be there.
I tend to think we’ll probably lose one significant rotation player- Could be Rocky, Could be someone else. Ultimately, it’s stressful knowing that someone is unprotected and the uncertainty leading up to the actual draft.
I would be sad to lose Rocky. But not as sad if we lost Liv, Sam, or Hina. Someone said it earlier but if we do have to end up protecting players a lot should come down to what Hina’s and Natu’s long term plans are
I’d say protect Soph, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, Reyes, and Dunn no matter what, unless Dunn says she’s out.
- Horan: I’d rather lose her for nothing than protect her over a valuable asset. That said, I’d hope they sell her before this becomes an issue.
- I assume they protect Bixby, which they shouldn’t, but probably will.
- Reyes needs to be protected- She’s a young, high potential player in a position of need.
- So, the question (assuming Dunn stays) is who of Hubly, Natu, or Rocky gets the last spot? I’d actually go Hubly: I think she’s a huge part of the club, and is the most likely to be picked imo. It’s essentially a tossup between her and Kuikka for me, but I think I’d keep Kelli.
I'd protect Kuikka over Hubly in a heartbeat. I love me some K-Hubs, but Kuikka is one or two levels above. I think she's one of the most underappreciated players in the league, and it'd be easier to find a successor of Hubly's caliber than Kuikka's.
I certainly wouldn’t argue with you on Kuikka, though I do think Hubly is massively underrated as well. CBs over FBs from a positional value standpoint, and Kelli is one of the best CBs in the league. I don’t necessarily agree that it would be easier to replace her -- high level CBs are one of the most difficult things to find in NWSL-- though either would obviously be a big loss.
I also have no basis for this, but it feels like Natu would be more likely to go abroad instead of switching NWSL teams? I thought there were rumblings that she was considering leaving after her contract ends here anyways.
Regardless- Impossible choices all around: Abolish the expansion draft.
I am curious what the PA thinks. The relevant section:
"There will be a protected list of Players and an
unprotected list of Players. There will be no partial immunity, whether based on player classification, position, or any other criteria. Each Team may lose no more than one (1) Player for each new Team in the Expansion Draft."
If Lyon are saying she's staying, she's going to stay. I very much doubt the social media people are acting with intimate knowledge of front office conversations unless something is imminent, so I imagine the direction is continue to act as if she's our player until she isn't. But this is going one way, and also we should not protect a 29 year old Lindsey Horan with a bad knee if she were to return
I meant more so that it could point to a loan extension rather than a full transfer. But I absolutely agree, I wouldn’t protect her without knowing more info. It would be ridiculous to not get transfer money for her now, so I imagine her rights may have to at least be protected to get anything for her. All the more reason why I think they should just cut her loose now when her value is prob higher than it’ll ever be…
Agree 1000%. I think it would be exceptionally poor from the FO to not get a full transfer out of it now, before her value drops. Being on loan for 2 yrs does nothing for the club. We really need that for a CB or two in the very near future.
Also if we can sell Horan now, we can spend the money - which should be substantial if KK does her job - after the expansion draft. Cache the cash until it's safe to get another good player.
Yep, exactly my thoughts. We have no need to spend that money immediately. Spend the time scouting for a youngish long term CB, who may be needed by next season. Do the paperwork after the expansion draft. We still haven’t heard anything about Horan from the FO, but I expect we will soon because her loan is up by the end of the month.
Anyone have any idea what's going on with Natalie Beckman?
Just looked at all of the starting XI's, and Beckman hasn't been listed in the subs list for ANY of the games this year, CC or league, unlike other mostly unused players like Betfort or Provenzano.
It's so bad- I'm befuddled by how much praise it's getting. It looks like a baseball logo (literally, google the Detroit Tigers logo) with a lazy color scheme.
Shoulda gone with a clean UCLA blue/gold or a Stanford/Santa Clara maroon imo. I don't get how they pay a firm money and end up with this. There's so many California color schemes that work so much better!
Is it getting praise? Everything I've seen on twitter has been like 95% WTF lol, even from some more visible woso people. It's literally terrible lol. Like so bland. As a soccer fan, I would never wear any of that merch if it were my team...as you said, with the baseball-lookin' logo. Could've done so so so much more. The name, the branding, the colors...all bland. Is that supposed to be their crest? Baffling. Boring. Bland. Bad. So many B words., lol. Sorry, Bay FC.
Ahhhh, the royal blue and gold! I have a major soft spot for that, as it was my team colors for my city growing up (I have a literal trash bag full of yellow and blue soccer socks lol), but it was also the colors for my high school team....Quartz Hill Rebels (yes, a confederate soldier mascot in Southern CA.)
All, nah, much will be forgiven if their home is in the East Bay, but I'm guessing far away exotic San Jose. Stanford will kick their assess in friendlies, maybe Santa Clara too.
Man, I've done the drive up the 5 through CA so many times, and got stuck in Los Banos for multiple hours while getting my car fixed when the tire blew out on the road trip. Was headed to Oakland to visit friends.
Toward the end, she got tangled up with one of our players, and as they were getting up started to throw a punch. It didn’t connect but it was pretty obvious from my seat in 116
Ok, just before the 71st minute, shortly before KJ subbed on for Thompson. Porter took down Thompson pretty hard, they got tangled up, Porter pushed Thompson in the side too, and then Thompson shoved Porter in the chest up near the throat as she got up and walked away. Neither of them received a yellow. I don't know whether the ref talked to Porter about it, but she did talk to Thompson.
Wow, that's a problem. Maybe she should talk to Big Sister Soph about learning to handle the rough stuff she'll face without potentially getting herself a red card.
The good:
- Vasconcelos: I have no idea where her burst came from after looking so utterly useless in preseason, but she had the ACFC RB on skates the whole first half. Really happy for her.
- Moultrie: I just love watching her play- It’s so rare for a 17 year old to step into a midfield and immediately exert control over it, but she’s rapidly becoming undroppable in my eyes. She’s a perfectly functioning metronome with outstanding technical ability.
-Reyes: Struggled a bit in the first half, excellent in the second. Tireless runner with developing skill on the ball. Think we might have Kling’s heir.
- Weaver: Beat the damn breaks off Spencer time after time after time after she came on. Looked like a completely different tier of athlete. Pretty cool goal too.
The bad:
- Nally/Provenzano: Impossibly slow. Cannot and should not be on the field together ever again. Directly responsible for the equalizer. No more please!
- The ref: Two out of the three times she got hit with the ball were because she wasn’t paying attention and had her back turned. Both times stopped great counter attack opportunities. Also missed the last corner go off of Soph, but I ain’t complaining!
Special mention to Porter, who was really steady in midfield, and Izzy who played a great ball into Vasconcelos, but missed two golden opportunities.
Also, Thompson is a beast. Her speed is simply amazing, and the effort she made to draw the penalty was great. To be able to stop on a dime and track back to the ball before Hogan could pounce was crazy. I will say that Nally should have put a body on her, but all credit goes to Thompson on that play.
Provenzano is the case study of just not fast enough. She was a great college player, but the foot speed is not there. I was hoping that anticipation would overcome it like it did with Becky, but I think Becky and Sam have made themselves more athletic over the years with drills. I wanted her to succeed, because she is a smart player. The USL might be a better place for her because she’s playing tentatively and those that watched Rutgers, that’s actually a surprise. I expected slow, but I also expected decisive
Agreed- She clearly has the right ideas, but the athletic disadvantage is too much to overcome. Even Coffey and Becky, while certainly not the quickest, are both in a completely different athletic tier than Provenzano (or Nally, for that matter).
Vasconcelos had a really nice game. I have been critical of her coming on over other players, but last night she showed she can contribute.
D'Aquila also had a really good game. The crossbar was really unkind to her, but that pass was a thing of beauty. The Keeper had a really difficult decision to make on that pass, and I don't think she wins if she stayed on her line.
It's great to see a quality athlete have a resurgence when her body is no longer holding her back. I know little about her and see she had an ACL tear in 2019 and has basically been rehabbing ever since, even while playing for various teams. This year she seems to have turned a corner, which is gratifying both for her and the Thorns, who will be desperate for strikers during WWC.
Interesting she was a scoring midfielder in college--30 goals, 27 assists at BYU. I'm more accustomed to seeing forwards reengineered into midfielders. First-rounder in 2017.
I had no idea she had so much flair to her game. She looks like someone who clearly had some gas in an earlier life, but still has justtt enough left in the tank to contribute. Trickier than she looks!
SCORPION
KICK
FOR
THE
WINNER
(that is all)
Early bedtime east coaster here. Saw this in my inbox this AM and before I could delete it, I saw what I thought was the spoiling "Things didn't turn out as Portland expected". Watching the replay, I was on the edge of my seat the last 3 mins of stoppage time, expecting an equalizer. Y'all trying to give me a heart attack? 🤣
I'm glad they won because I think these secondary contests are important for the Thorns to win if they can. Over the years they've won games due to their reputation. Sometimes because the other team gorks it or they remember who they are. Winning breeds winning.
Thoughts in no particular order:
Glad the players are still in the hunt for the Big Payday (other than that I’d be fine if the club went out in the group stage…)
Holy shit is ACFC bad; even against a heavily rotated Thorns they had nothing going forward except Thompson and were a mess in back.
That said, there’s something off in the Thorns (players and Norris) - tactics? headspace? both? - when playing from a lead. There’s no way in hell that should have needed a slug of starters to make 93rd minute magic. Forced to chase against that monster attack should have opened space the Thorns could exploit. Up 2-nil could have ended 5-nil but should at least have STAYED 2-nil. If this outfit could figure that out they’ll steamroll to another star.
Part of that is discipline - way too many people overcommitted and got skinned when they just needed to manage the match. Poor Nally is really struggling with that; she’s just not a clever player.
I thought Reyes looked good all evening, and D’Aquila was sharp for an hour (couple of late attempts she’ll want back, tho).
So…now the real thing looms; Seattle away. Let’s thump those wenches and get on the bus.
Y'all ought to drive up to Lumen and make yourselves loud pests. I would but....you know. Luckily, it's on CBSSN, "Where sports go to die" so I'm assured no viewing in any capacity.
Really curious which Reign and which Thorns show up for this one. Each has been schizophrenic this year. The wrong combo could easily yield a 4-0 match.
Yeah, I was poking around their records against common opponents and came away thinking "Talk about "form doesn't hold" here..." This one's going to be a real black box depending on which club(s) show up.
Yeah, I could really see it going super lopsided for either side. We can score but we can't defend. Reign can sometimes score and sometimes defends. Not sure I wanna watch it lol.
Well Thornando, I think you saw why some of the backend of the roster doesn't play much.
I thought tonight was invaluable. The Thorns played the same way as they do in a regular season game, and you could see clearly the issues that causes lesser center backs in Nally and Provenzano. I think it causes the first choice centre backs issues too, but it was glaring. Thompson wins a PK after burning both of them!
Norris talked about managing transitions, and the biggest thing, I think, is changing the balance to 4/6 or 5/5, rather than what it is right now, which is 3/7. So if that means sitting a full back deeper or dragging a midfielder next to the #6, so be it. Otherwise, transitions will keep killing the Thorns.
Transitions are definitely the underlying problem with the high FBs and midfield - I actually didn’t think it was a *huge* issue tonight in particular, but it got real ugly the one time Thompson got isolated on Provenzano and Nally without FB or modified help.
Regardless, “managing transitions” is your job, Norris: Its a tactical problem more than anything else, and it’s one that should be relatively straightforward to remedy.
Yeah, the Thorns controlled about 85% of this game, and it took a worldie and a pen.
Lets be honest, the first goal was good, but the defense did a poor job of closing out. You can't wait for a player to reach the box AND THEN retreat on defense. Good shot, but poor defense.
First goal was just Kuikka getting beat. Really poor from her
Yeah, I saw Kuikka get caught too far up waaay too many times in like the first 15 minutes of her playing. It really looks like it's a coaching thing.
But, she was culpable with that first goal. She gave her way too much space and time to get that shot off after the player just dribbled laterally into the box. WIth Nally and Prov as your CB's, you HAVE to do better than that.
Yeah, Rifer had the same reaction; I think his comment was that the Thorns seem to think that being up 2-nil means they should finish 5-nil. Nobody's transitioning to managing the match and tightening up in the defensive half. And that was against ACFC who, even at full strength, is not a very good side...
I don't think they're acting as if they're up 5-0 because it's happened enough when they're a goal up...
Ummm…that was Rifer’s comment; that the pushing up doesn’t seem to have an “off” button. Up one, two, three…they’re still pushing up. there doesn’t seem like a mindset to tighten up and see the game out.
It’s funny tho, because all last year the comments round here were all “why do they always turtle with a lead?”
Obviously there’s a happy medium to be found, but in this case I tend to think it is more tactical than mental for the reasons Rifer and others have observed.
right, I mean I disagree with the notion that it's a mindset thing. I think it's pretty obviously tactical because it's happened with different players and combinations.
Some of them, yes, but not all.
Just because there is a player on the roster who is clearly the #1 in the positional depth chart is no reason why we should never see the #2, in some cases. I'd say that's true of Porter and Hogan.
It's also good to see, as you note, why some players don't see the pitch -- but, then again, why at this point are they even here? It's not impossible to buy out a squad player's contract.
Finally, it's nice to see folks you could put out there for a few minutes late in a match, building their confidence and rewarding their effort in training with seeing the pitch with at least some regularity. I'd put Betfort in that latter category. Every time I see her, I see glimmers of things, and obviously I see her size, but more than anything she just looks uncertain.
It’s a combo. Since we love tiers around here, I’d put it this way:
Tier 1- Level doesn’t go down when they start: Moultrie, Reyes, Menges, Hogan
Tier 2- Good squad players who can do a job, but a noticeable drop off from the players ahead of them: D’Aquila, Vasconcelos, Porter, McGrady, Leon
Tier 3- Major liabilities when they play: Nally, Provenzano, Betfort (who I thought played her cleanest game last night), Beckman
In response to your question: Teams aren’t just the players that see the field in any sport, but especially soccer- They practice every day, socialize with the team, and are needed for actual game minutes every so often, as we saw last night. Most importantly, it’s their career: If NWSL squads didn’t have the number of roster spots they do, we’d have the WNBA problem where there’s tons of good players unable to make it in the league simply because there’s not enough spots. Like I’ve said before, the gap between the Thorns' top and bottom end is much more noticeable than than other NWSL teams- That doesn’t mean the bottom end shouldn’t have a roster spot.
I'm pretty sure the Thorns don't use their roster as a welfare system for players who will never play. It's more that they need break-glass-in-case-of-emergency players, ones who can adequately fill in if the several players ahead of them go down injured. If the injury picture remains okay, though, they may never see the field.
Unlike 2019 there seems to be no Purce-Charley WWC Surprise!!! kit on the bench.
If there is, then I shall indeed be surprised.
I think they are already playing. I could see Reyes-Izzy make that type of jump. Moultrie already has
That’s not at all what I’m saying- It’s that the NWSL (and all soccer leagues) have players at the bottom of rosters that don’t play and make less money, but are still functional and important parts of the club and the league’s ecosystem. No team has 25 players you feel comfortable being on the field in competitive matches, but it’s important that the league has the ability to support the careers of those players....which obviously hasn’t always been the case in NWSL.
I also think it's an adjustment for us. Beckman and Provenzano are from maybe this regime's draft but at a transitional point from Parsons, and the HC who oversaw that draft is gone. From this year's draft, one draftee is already gone, the other is a goalkeeper, the other was a consensus first round pick.
This was something Parsons was great at and the back of that roster was probably a little better in quality. But I'd imagine all of these players have something about them that stands out; we might not see it here because of how they develop, or because of the coaching here.
Also, there are more teams now, which means more roster spots- Since the Thorns' Parsons era, the NWSL has added three expansion teams with two more on their way AND have a CBA that makes it more feasible for rookies and second year players to hang around while still making a half decent living.
AND: The 2017 team had 10 players (8 if you don't count Tobin and Morris) play less than 300 minutes. It's not like even Parsons was using the end of the bench all that much.
Betfort is an enigma to me. I love the hustle, and I see glimmers every so often. But I also don't see anything in most appearances.
She's got Po no thoughts just vibes energy, and also a lot of running. Her set up for D'Aquila was a really nice bit of intelligent play, and I thought yesterday was the best we've seen of her combination of physicality and energy.
I did see some nice passing with her back to goal last night, which I don't remember seeing in her bag beforehand. It would make sense that would be how she'd play best, though, because she does seem pretty strong. I think it's a way to exploit her strengths better when she's on the field.
Initially when she was first getting minutes, they were just trying to use her as a typical 9 where they use her speed and send in crosses from the wing to her feet, but that really wasn't working because she's got a stone first touch and not a lot of control even after.
I'm also pretty sure she played a lot of CB in college as well, so she's a player that never really got to become a student of any one position. At least putting her at CF and having her be predominately there is less risky than putting her in defense also.
Her touch was about as clean as I’ve seen it. Released Weaver into space a few times.
Culture and chemistry are about more than talent, no doubt. But...
if you have squad players that aren't good enough to see the field at all, then how much can they be helping you in training?
There are players whose value is measured more in terms of them being good on the road, good in the community, good in the locker room, etc., but usually those are seasoned vets rather than young players.
Miami and Golden State have these kinds of elder statesmen -- Udonis Haslem and Andre Iguodala. They don't play anymore, but once upon a time they COULD play and they're still around because they're great for the younger players.
I have a hard time imagining that our squad players who are major liabilities when they play, as you put it, aren't also major liabilities when they train.
But maybe there's more to it than just needing someone to move the piano and someone to play the piano. You surely also need someone to tune the piano. And perhaps you also need someone to listen to the performance and applaud it.
Beyond the fact that I do disagree that you need to be able to be a good NWSL player or a vet to have an impact in training and off the field, you’re not getting really useful players to fill out the bottom of an NWSL team. It’s just not going to happen. If a player is good enough to play real minutes, they won’t settle for being the 20th woman on the Thorns, or likely on any NWSL roster.
It’s important that the NWSL can support a real-sized soccer roster where the 20th woman feels like she has a shot in the league...but that also doesn’t mean that the 20th player (often a rookie) is going to be good enough to get minutes over established players who have shown themselves to be good enough.
The lower end of every roster has players that could be replaced and the level of talent that comes out of college every year should put some of these players at risk. I think the USL is going to show that there are more players that can be solid backups and maybe a few unseen starter quality types
Yeah, totally agree. Especially when we are up 2-0. Absolutely no reason not to tighten up at that point.
Also some good news from Ryan Clarke earlier: "Becky Sauerbrunn (foot) trained in full today. Mike Norris said the Thorns are hopeful that she’ll be available for limited minutes on Saturday at OL Reign."
Amandine Henry has signed a three year contract with Angel City. I don't like the idea of seeing her in an opposing shirt no matter the circumstances.
Vaguely confused how Ertz/Henry works structurally, but I suppose Mandy can play a little higher if needed. Gonna be bitch to play against if nothing else.
Not much of a foundation for the future with 34 year old Henry on a 3(!) year deal and 31 year old Ertz. Unsure exactly what this does.
I'm not convinced Angel City is running an actual process here.
I'm not sure Ertz continues after this year. I figure she has to play to play in the WWC, but I don't quite have the sense that she's there for the long haul.
Could be right- She’s not *old* old tho, and she’s a super competitor. I’d be surprised if she just retired.
No, you're right about that. It's just that she took a long time to come back and seems to have enjoyed not being on the hamster wheel. She only came back to play for ACFCNFT because Vlatko said she had to play for a club if she wanted to be able to play for country.
Yeah, her partner (and baby!) live in Arizona. I can't imagine she'd stay past this season simply for that reason...
I think she's playing simply to have her last WC hoo-rah and then will retire afterwards. Henry sounds like a more long term vision for AC, likely at the 6. It would be weird if they were both there. Side note, but also, how? I would've sworn they had no more cap space after Ertz, but Henry too??
I sure hope ACFC’s planning on a soon to be 34 year old on a 3 year contract acting as the backbone of their midfield! I love Amendine, but as we’ve seen, it ain’t easy to sustain that kind of level in your mid-late 30s, especially as a 6.
I actually thought Ertz was older than she was- I’d do whatever I could to keep her around if I were them, tho again, as Aidan noted above, I don’t think they have a real process.
I wonder if the three year contract is structured to back-load salary. Henry can't play at all for ACFC until Jun 28 when the transfer window actually opens, and now that Diacre is out of France, she's probably going to the WC around then. Most likely Henry is playing ~ 2 months at most. So pay a little as you can this year for cap reasons, and assume Ertz leaves and frees up space.
But honestly, I do not understand how ACFC has been doing their books. Press still on the SEI keeps cap free, but LeRoux and Thompson must be expensive too.
Agree. It's a business, I get that, but going to be hard to see her playing against us.
So, that Equalizer story about the Thorns recent run of form, called "Slump or Anomaly," with a picture of Menges.
Anomaly Menges?
Beats Anemone Menges.
Which also raises the question.... who is Slump?
Oh God! It's Captain Slump.
Seems like Moultrie was the designated free kick/corner taker for the Thornes. Thoughts on how she did, besides the obvious assist?
It should go without saying but Moultrie should be a nailed on starter. That she has to job share with Sinc, while likely inevitable, is a waste of a real talent.
For real... I hope Sinc finally gets her World Cup Gold and gets to do an extended victory tour around every province in Canada coming back just in time to unveil the massive statue of her that we have built spanning the Willamette during the Thorns' Cup and Shield wins.
She was great- She has the best delivery on the roster (Coffey included), and should be taking set pieces whenever she’s out there.
This is interesting to hear, because I was complimenting Coffey's nice touch on free kicks recently. Pretty lucky to have two midfielders with such a great touch.
They both have excellent on set pieces! Now if only we could be consistent on the other end of those....
Moultrie did the Horan-against-Louisville goal last night. Only difference being that there was a slight toe-tap by Izzy, apparently.
Why I'm hopping against all odds TGH comes back for One Last Season, because her tutoring Liv would help elevate and accelerate her game significantly. Their paths are pretty similar when you think about it, and Moultrie is still growing, becoming faster and more physical as she develops the soccer smarts. You can't tell at 17 but she could become a real midfield boss.
Also, #3 set piece option behind Kling and Sam? Not bad (although I kind of want her in the box, receiving the ball).
Paths and skill sets.
And, yes, I want her receiving the ball because she looks to goal and has lots of ideas about how to get it there.
I was super impressed with the development of Weaver. She’s always created havoc, but not at this level. She still makes the frustrating play, but the level of opportunities she creates is really nice to see and I saw three shots in two games that she doesn’t make last year. That game ender is like she’s walking hockey
Moultrie starts. I now feel bad about my terrible take about not protecting her. I was wrong.
Earlier in the season, she mentioned in a post-game that this was the first off-season that she hired a personal trainer to work with. And then yesterday she had the funny comments about 'Hina's Hip Mobility Class' she's been doing because she's actively working on how to use her body in different ways to score. She works so hard during games and always seems to have a great attitude, so it's great seeing it pay off.
If you've watched any of Moultrie's home training w/ a trainer over the years (even as a kid), it's something that she's always worked on. And, it shows. She's got amazing service and weight on her balls for the most part, in all different set piece scenarios. There was one corner she took last night that wasn't great, but I only see that once in a blue moon.
Henderson did the Challenge Cup heavy lifting to show xG graphs for the match: Izzy's # is top among all players and barely behind the entire ACFC squad.
https://twitter.com/chris_awk/status/1664451002018197504?cxt=HHwWgMCzlcTXqJkuAAAA
I hesitate to write this, since opinion seems to be so anti-Nally, but I thought she did a pretty good job of containing Thompson. From where I sit on the west side it looked like she stymied her one-v-one in the corner several times in the first half. Henderson has Thompson's xG for the game at .11. I know she doesn't require a big xG number to score, and of course she did draw the penalty that led to Emslie's goal, bit still... If that suggests an overall bad job by Nally I'd honestly like to understand how.
She was fine in the first half- Kept up with Thompson once or twice. It helps having some speed next to her. Once she was paired with Provenzano is was all over.
I just didn't watch her closely so have no big takeaways from viewing the match on teevee.
Looking at the NWSL stat gizmo, Nally among the four starting Thorns defenders:
6 clearances of 10 total
7 recoveries of 27 total
0 interceptions of the 1 total
0 defensive blocks total
0 tackles lost of 2 total
2 tackles won of 5 total
36(?) successful passes, 10 unsuccessful passes, none of which was dangerous (backward or towards goal)
Just numbers but I do not see either underachievement nor a preponderance of mistakes in the data.
Also, still can't teach speed.
I agree she's not fast, but she was very quick to react to Thompson's attempts to get around her, and she refused to commit. I'm not aware of a statistic for jockeying, but I thought she did that very well.
She's useable alongside Menges or Becky or Hubly. Not great, but a perfectly adequate professional player who can do a job for a game.
Alongside Provenzano it's a disaster.
I agree with this. From our vantage in 121 I thought Nally did pretty ok, except on the two goals. I thought on the first she gave the shooter way too much space. On the play that ended up in the penalty Provenzano was beaten so badly with no backup by Nally. Those two cannot be on the back line together.
Thompson is an amazing athlete. Not many in the league with that speed
I was thinking about expansion protection last night (as one does), and was wondering how Janine Beckie would be treated with it. She's not even a starter, even if she was fit. But, I can't see KK spending all of that money for her to not protect her (also, I can't see her doing that to her friend.) But, who's spot does she take? A rhetorical question...I haven't worked it out on paper yet, so I have no idea who'd be on the bubble.
They could protect 9 in the last double expansion. Those players: Bella Bixby, Crystal Dunn, Lindsey Horan, Natalia Kuikka, Emily Menges, Olivia Moultrie, Raquel Rodriguez, Sophia Smith, and Morgan Weaver.
I honestly don't think Bella should get one of those protected spots, same with Menges. Worth mentioning that Coffey, Hubly, and the rest of the olds (we have several) were not protected. Very curious about Dunn, because she's a free agent next year, I believe. If she gives any indication she wants to go elsewhere, I think we'll see that in whether she's protected or not. In a recent podcast episode with her on, she's said she'd totally go back to Chelsea, if they'd have her. So, I don't think she's tethered to Portland, unfortunately. Horan, well, we gotta hear confirmation at some point soon from our FO, since her loan was up "through June."
If it's 9 again, who do you protect? Mine: Smith, Weaver, Coffey, Sugita, Moultrie, Kuikka, Dunn, Horan (if we have to? But losing her rights for nothing would be BS and bad FO work), Reyes. That's of course, if Dunn commits to staying. If she doesn't? Or if Horan is out? I'd choose between Rocky (29), Hubly (28), and Izzy (21). There's no way I can fit Beckie in there. I'm inclined to say Izzy because of her age and her ceiling seems high. I'd surely bet Bay FC would have their eyes on her...a former Bronco is an owner and would nab her in a second. But, I can't see us not protecting Hubly, or Rocky. Whew, gonna be a rough one....
A random side note that I thought was interesting....we've heard a lot of noise recently about her staying in France, but, only a few days AFTER all of that noise (6 days ago), the Thorns posted a couple pictures of her on their instagram wishing her a happy birthday. "Celebrating you on your special day! Happy birthday to The Great Horan" I think if there was a full transfer of her rights being negotiated, they wouldn't have put out this post to their social media. But, who knows?
I don't see that there has to be an expansion draft this time around. With the huge franchise fees being paid, the league could probably give each new team $5-8 million as a one-time "buy yourself a team" gift. Bear in mind that much of it would come right back assuming the noobs buy mostly NWSL players, essentially moving money from the left pocket to the right. Maybe toss in draft picks 1, 3, 5 and 2, 4, 6 (there could be a draw at the very start of the draft broadcast) to flesh out the roster. For the existing teams this would surely be a better way to keep your core together while maybe picking up $$$ for a couple front-of-the-bench players. For the new teams, they could pick up a couple flashy internationals, a flock of decent-to-good NWSL players and those three early-round draft picks.
Exactly this- There’s no reason for there to be an expansion draft. Give ‘em extra money and the entire first round of the draft and let’s get moving. There’s free-agency too, so there’s another way to add players.
For a league that professes to want player stability and autonomy, expansion drafts are ridiculously antiquated.
Expansion has never met its objectives. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the lambs get slaughtered (SDW aside). If you consider NCC as an extension of WNYF, then the only non-original NWSL club to take ANY trophy was Houston in a Challenge Cup. So even after ten years, the expansion teams are still being beaten with the wooden spoon.
I get your point, but I don’t fully agree- The top end has gotten bigger and better since expansion (which was always going to happen), and I don’t really think the bottom end has gotten any worse. The expansion teams *aren’t* getting slaughtered anymore because they’re the teams with dedicated owners with interest in generating real fan bases, and their branding and spend backs that up. The teams that are getting overrun are the existing teams with little interest in getting better and growing a fans base at the same pace the league is growing- Orlando in particular, but NCC as well.
I think you could argue that the gap in resources and pull has gotten bigger, but that’s the nature of bringing money and interest into the league. The bottom end of the league has more talent than it did 5 years ago- Hell, Houston certainly is pulling in more, Louisville is dysfunctional but has undeniable roster talent, and even Orlando seems to be gaining some on-field stability.
At the end of the day, it’s kinda put up or shut up time for the franchises that have just coasted along for years, and that’s been triggered by the entry of the three Cali teams and KC. In the meantime, we still have a five way race at the top of the table and more parity than ever, so I’m not too worried.
Giving the entire first round is brilliant! You know they would trade 2/3 of those picks, which is the idea of course.
Worth pointing out that our protected list meant nothing because we did deals with both teams. We had to submit one because the deal with San Diego took a little time and wasn't complete by that deadline. I can't quite remember, but I think it wasn't done officially until after the expansion draft, and we're lucky that San Diego honored the handshake without taking a hostage.
I anticipate that everyone is going to do that route again. Expansion teams want players who want to be there and there is a growing push toward more player autonomy. The league gives expansion teams extra allocation money as a tradable asset, and free agency allows them to recruit in other ways too.
If you have to make a list: Smith, Coffey, Dunn, Reyes, Weaver, Moultrie, Hubly, Sugita, Kuikka with a few caveats. Moultrie will be 18 by then, so no longer under the mandatory protection required by the league. I wonder if she's planning to go overseas as soon as she turns 18 though and I think her contract is up this year? So maybe not worth protecting if you've had that conversation about her plans. Similar with Kuikka and Sugita, if the contracts are up end of season and they plan on leaving. I think we'd have to protect Horan if she's on loan, but really we need to sell her now, otherwise we probably getting nothing back for her. Next three protected for me are Rocky, Izzy, Beckie/Menges.
Yeah we always spend so much time discussing expansion draft lists and then it doesn’t turn out to matter on draft day. Players usually want to stay where they are and teams want players that want to be there.
I tend to think we’ll probably lose one significant rotation player- Could be Rocky, Could be someone else. Ultimately, it’s stressful knowing that someone is unprotected and the uncertainty leading up to the actual draft.
I would be sad to lose Rocky. But not as sad if we lost Liv, Sam, or Hina. Someone said it earlier but if we do have to end up protecting players a lot should come down to what Hina’s and Natu’s long term plans are
I’d say protect Soph, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, Reyes, and Dunn no matter what, unless Dunn says she’s out.
- Horan: I’d rather lose her for nothing than protect her over a valuable asset. That said, I’d hope they sell her before this becomes an issue.
- I assume they protect Bixby, which they shouldn’t, but probably will.
- Reyes needs to be protected- She’s a young, high potential player in a position of need.
- So, the question (assuming Dunn stays) is who of Hubly, Natu, or Rocky gets the last spot? I’d actually go Hubly: I think she’s a huge part of the club, and is the most likely to be picked imo. It’s essentially a tossup between her and Kuikka for me, but I think I’d keep Kelli.
Final “what I’d do”: Soph, Weaver, Coffey, Hina, Moultrie, Reyes, Hubly, Dunn, Bixby
(Caveat that I would not protect Bella, but am almost sure that the club will).
I'd protect Kuikka over Hubly in a heartbeat. I love me some K-Hubs, but Kuikka is one or two levels above. I think she's one of the most underappreciated players in the league, and it'd be easier to find a successor of Hubly's caliber than Kuikka's.
I certainly wouldn’t argue with you on Kuikka, though I do think Hubly is massively underrated as well. CBs over FBs from a positional value standpoint, and Kelli is one of the best CBs in the league. I don’t necessarily agree that it would be easier to replace her -- high level CBs are one of the most difficult things to find in NWSL-- though either would obviously be a big loss.
I also have no basis for this, but it feels like Natu would be more likely to go abroad instead of switching NWSL teams? I thought there were rumblings that she was considering leaving after her contract ends here anyways.
Regardless- Impossible choices all around: Abolish the expansion draft.
do we know what the rules are yet?
It’s the NWSL what do you think lol
I am curious what the PA thinks. The relevant section:
"There will be a protected list of Players and an
unprotected list of Players. There will be no partial immunity, whether based on player classification, position, or any other criteria. Each Team may lose no more than one (1) Player for each new Team in the Expansion Draft."
If Lyon are saying she's staying, she's going to stay. I very much doubt the social media people are acting with intimate knowledge of front office conversations unless something is imminent, so I imagine the direction is continue to act as if she's our player until she isn't. But this is going one way, and also we should not protect a 29 year old Lindsey Horan with a bad knee if she were to return
I meant more so that it could point to a loan extension rather than a full transfer. But I absolutely agree, I wouldn’t protect her without knowing more info. It would be ridiculous to not get transfer money for her now, so I imagine her rights may have to at least be protected to get anything for her. All the more reason why I think they should just cut her loose now when her value is prob higher than it’ll ever be…
There is no reason to do a load extension. Take the transfer fee and her salary / start filling other gaps.
Agree 1000%. I think it would be exceptionally poor from the FO to not get a full transfer out of it now, before her value drops. Being on loan for 2 yrs does nothing for the club. We really need that for a CB or two in the very near future.
Also if we can sell Horan now, we can spend the money - which should be substantial if KK does her job - after the expansion draft. Cache the cash until it's safe to get another good player.
Yep, exactly my thoughts. We have no need to spend that money immediately. Spend the time scouting for a youngish long term CB, who may be needed by next season. Do the paperwork after the expansion draft. We still haven’t heard anything about Horan from the FO, but I expect we will soon because her loan is up by the end of the month.
Anyone have any idea what's going on with Natalie Beckman?
Just looked at all of the starting XI's, and Beckman hasn't been listed in the subs list for ANY of the games this year, CC or league, unlike other mostly unused players like Betfort or Provenzano.
Phuoc, do you have any info?
https://twitter.com/NWSL/status/1664335912287739925?s=20
YUCKKK WHAT IS THIS DETROIT TIGERS-ASS LOGO?
Colors suck too. Boo.
BFC? BFD.
Where's my KFC?
Meh. I give it an 11, er, I mean two fingers up.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fxis-DFaQAYWmmy?format=jpg&name=small
Seriously, tho, here's their website: https://bayfc.com/
They're going with that GG Bridge Orange.
Welcome to the NWSL! We hate you already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kpb8eu1pEY
I was saying Boourns.
Yes! Lol
More like BORING FC.
How underwhelming a rollout can you have lol. Glad we'll have another blue, red/orange, and white color scheme....
It's so bad- I'm befuddled by how much praise it's getting. It looks like a baseball logo (literally, google the Detroit Tigers logo) with a lazy color scheme.
Shoulda gone with a clean UCLA blue/gold or a Stanford/Santa Clara maroon imo. I don't get how they pay a firm money and end up with this. There's so many California color schemes that work so much better!
Is it getting praise? Everything I've seen on twitter has been like 95% WTF lol, even from some more visible woso people. It's literally terrible lol. Like so bland. As a soccer fan, I would never wear any of that merch if it were my team...as you said, with the baseball-lookin' logo. Could've done so so so much more. The name, the branding, the colors...all bland. Is that supposed to be their crest? Baffling. Boring. Bland. Bad. So many B words., lol. Sorry, Bay FC.
Ahhhh, the royal blue and gold! I have a major soft spot for that, as it was my team colors for my city growing up (I have a literal trash bag full of yellow and blue soccer socks lol), but it was also the colors for my high school team....Quartz Hill Rebels (yes, a confederate soldier mascot in Southern CA.)
I saw a decent amount of praise when it first got published, but good to hear I'm not crazy!
You are not!
Bet that package cost tens of dollars.
All, nah, much will be forgiven if their home is in the East Bay, but I'm guessing far away exotic San Jose. Stanford will kick their assess in friendlies, maybe Santa Clara too.
I'm calling it now: Vaca Villa FC
Los Banos FC lol...
Man, I've done the drive up the 5 through CA so many times, and got stuck in Los Banos for multiple hours while getting my car fixed when the tire blew out on the road trip. Was headed to Oakland to visit friends.
They'd out-windy the Windy City, probably outdraw them, too.
Lived here more than a decade before figuring out Vacaville is a literal Cowtown. Don't get me started on Manteca.
Someone please correct me: Did Alyssa Thompson throw a punch at Porter (or maybe weaver?)
My partner said the same thing, but I didn't see it...!
Coach Nori is blocking the view I had in the P+ recording, but I'd say Thomson should be taking less personal mentoring from Julie Uhrman.
Wouldn’t call it a punch. More of a push/shove- Not too big a deal imo.
Where did you see that, or hear that?
Toward the end, she got tangled up with one of our players, and as they were getting up started to throw a punch. It didn’t connect but it was pretty obvious from my seat in 116
Ok, just before the 71st minute, shortly before KJ subbed on for Thompson. Porter took down Thompson pretty hard, they got tangled up, Porter pushed Thompson in the side too, and then Thompson shoved Porter in the chest up near the throat as she got up and walked away. Neither of them received a yellow. I don't know whether the ref talked to Porter about it, but she did talk to Thompson.
This is what I saw. Although it happened so fast I thought it was Reyes, not porter
Okay, I didn’t notice the Porter shove. From my angle it looked like Thompson closed her fist, but could be wrong.
I just watched it back a few times. That's what I saw.
Wow, that's a problem. Maybe she should talk to Big Sister Soph about learning to handle the rough stuff she'll face without potentially getting herself a red card.
I don’t think that’s what her yellow was for but it was just minutes before