So for all I think she porked the pup with Kuikka our favorite pink-coated GM has otherwise managed to fill in the roster pretty damn nicely, so overall? Take ten bucks out of petty cash, KK. Good job.
Now the real test begins.
Because we had a strong roster last season and several shortcomings - but largely on matchday and roster management - managed to trip the squad up in both vying for the Shield in the season and in the semifinal in the playoffs.
So the question becomes; is our head coach learning?
Presuming he and LeBlanc successfully sort out the RB question this should be a hellishly hard squad to beat this coming season.
Will it? I hope so!
We've got about 52 days before we begin finding out.
Becky provides a stability that helps other players improve. Kling started to reemerge when put next to her, because she makes the right decision almost always. She was the #1 retain from FA. Glad she’s back.
Some are talking about a 3-5-2, presumably with new signing Fleming opposite Reyes as a wingback. Thoughts? I pretty much irrationally hate a 3-5-2 and feel like people are just being sentimental about trying to get all of their favorite players on the field together at the same time rather than thinking about what works. I don't see Kling as part of a back 3. I don't want to sit Reyes for her at this point either. If we play her as a left wingback, does that relegate Reyes to the bench in favor or Fleming on the right? That's crap. Reyes has some growing to do but I don't think she should be on the bench now. Or, do we play Reyes as RB and Kling at LB? We'd still need fullback depth.
I'm not confident in our forwards/strikers behind Smith yet either. I just haven't seen enough of Izzy or Beckie to think they can score enough goals.
Also, I'm assuming Sinc is a supersub at this point, but she started more games than I thought she would last season. Is she a CAM or a forward now? If she starts, is it Hina or Moultrie sitting?
How do we look during the Olympics?
I hope we make more moves. I'm personally a bit annoyed at the retirement laps but I respect letting players say goodbye to the supporters and appreciate how valuable veterans can be in the transition to new ownership.
When do we need to panic about re-signing Smith? She's worth more than Swanson, yeah?
No, no, no, no. No No No. No. I never want to see a 3/5 back ever again unless Antonio Conte randomly decides he wants to start coaching woso in Portland, and Norris wants to play 4-3-3 anyhow. But even so:
- It would be Beckie as the RWB with Reyes on the left. Jessie Fleming ain't playing a minute of RB/RWB. Neither Reyes or Beckie have the pace to be an effective wingback.
- We only have 3 competent CBs (and that's assuming Obaze figures the league out relatively quickly), so there's no reason to have all three of them on the field at once
- Any 4-back formation gets all the good players on the field more effectively anyhow because defense is our weakest positional group. Assuming no new additions and barring any Sinc shenanigans, the lineup should be pretty straightforward: Hogan, Kling-Becky-Hubly-Reyes, Coffey-Fleming-Moultrie, Weaver-Smith-Hina.
Thanks, I had assumed that you need to have pacy wingbacks to play a 3/5 but wasn't sure. I can see the logic behind the opposite being true, though, in that since you have 3 CBs instead of just 2, that makes it less reliant on your outside backs being able to track down forwards on a counter.
It's because wing backs in 3-5-2 are really just wingers with added defensive duties, so they have to cover a TON of ground both offensively. 3/5 backs also often have super mobile sixes to cover the wings when the wingback is caught up field, and for all Sam's great atrributes.....she doesn't have the athleticism to cover the wings in addition to doing all the other stuff she's really good at.
3-in-the-back requires pace on the part of all three to work. That's just an unavoidable ramification of the extra space (unless the wingbacks are playing deep all the time, which negates the whole point). We have some wonderful players out of which to form our back line...but in several cases, pace isn't really in their toolbox. Even a later-career Menges is still fast enough (just not the absolute blur she was early on); no one else really is fast enough for 3-in-the-back.
It also calls for at least one fullback and/or defensive mid who is essentially a center back at times. That’s not Coffey, Kling, or Reyes but maybe Nally? We’d still lack speed, quality, and consistency though.
If we have the roster for a three-CB formation? Fine! Not sure we do, and not sure Norris would go there; he was pretty locked into the 4-3-3 last season even when it looked pretty clear that his roster worked better in a 4-2-3-1.
Sport - if it means anything - is about not giving away the gift. That means as a player you give your all…including knowing when your all is no longer good enough to help your team.
So to drag some beloved player around for some sort of farewell tour when that player is clearly barely replacement-level is unfair to the player’s teammates and, frankly, to the player.
Smith is signed thru ‘24. If she hasn’t extended by the end of the year? Then, yes; worry.
We have to show Sophia that Portland is the best place for her long term. It’s a quick flight to her boyfriend and family as well as close to Nike. The new ownership is off to a great start bringing in Fleming. I was worried about Smith’s stagnant comment.
With the versatility of Sugita and Weaver, I think the formation kind of morphs during the game.
I’m curious to see what they do. I could see them bring in a RB or move Beckie to RB. Her defensive press isn’t what I want in the position, and I’d prefer they don’t, but her offensive skill set is a fit there and Norris tends to focus on offensive roles.
would KK play the Canada card again and bring in CNT RB Riviere from Man U. From what I can tell she splits time there. Would she be an upgrade or level player?
She just signed a 3 year contract about a week ago. She would have been a target if not for that extension. My guess is we probably inquired and they locked her up
Which cost him in the end; both the final regular season matchday and the semifinal were defensive breakdowns. That’s only acceptable if Smith goes all Brazil and smart opponents know that and throw a rug over her.
Hopefully we’ll see a more complete tactical setup this season.
And it was usually true, tbf. The org doesn't have any motivation to raise expectations if they're not going to sign anyone, so I have no reason to think that it won't happen.
Parsons's analysis of Kerr is terrific, and his comment about the NWSL re: how a scandal within one club indicts the entire league is quite telling.
Conversation provides interesting perspective on the Fleming transfer from a Chelsea standpoint -- well-regarded, unbelievable athlete with a great engine, but she didn't ever really click and have the extra level at Chelsea, probably a better match for the NWSL style and is someone who needs to be on the ball. It's "a bit of good business" for Chelsea to get a large transfer fee for someone who, for whatever reason, wasn't a fit there.
Convo also describes the NWSL style as end-to-end in terms of energy and intensity, sprinting and transition rather than thinking and making calm decisions, and a mindset that any team can win any game.
Parsons says that from the youth level (ages 4-5), Americans always have to show out and prove themselves in tryouts, always are going 100%. The NWSL is trying to apply tactics and technique to turned-up speed.
Parsons talks about Portland playing Lyon in 2021, saying that Lyon played them full strength throughout and Portland subbed on starters in the 2nd half, and once they did Lyon couldn't keep up. Parsons claims Chelsea and Arsenal are closest to being like NWSL clubs from the physical standpoint.
Finally... Parsons says he would NOT try to do Netherlands and Portland at the same time if he had it to do over again. The grind was huge. Said it was unfair to everyone and didn't serve everyone's best interests for him to be doing both, even though 2021 was the Thorns "best season" during his Portland tenure.
I really like counter-pressed, but that "extra-level" comment rubbed me the wrong way, as did the typical euro-speak reducing Fleming to her athleticism and engine. Glad Parsons brought up her technical ability because that's really her strongest attribute,
I'm sorry, I watch quite a bit of Chelsea and Jelena Cankovic, Katerina Svitkova, and Melanie Leupolz are simply not technically better --frankly, not even close-- than Jessie Fleming. They fit Hayes' system (ironically, probably a relatively comparable system to some in NWSL) better, but Fleming's problem is not her "lack of an extra-level," so much as the coach has a lot of options and prefers other players- which is fine! It's Chelsea!
The reason is simply Emma Hayes preferred other types of midfielders in her team. We don't see that in NWSL because it's usually if you're good, you have to play because there are not better options in your team and NWSL teams typically can't afford to simply buy and buy.
Big euro teams like Chelsea have the luxury of bringing in a bunch of really talented players and letting the coach decide who they like better for their system. Say for some reason Norris didn't like how Weaver fit into his system- He still couldn't bench her because she's so clearly much better than every bench option. Emma Hayes can say "Jessie is super talented but I also have Erin Cuthbert, Fran Kirby, Jelena Cankovic, Katerina Svitkova, and Melanie Leupolz. I think they fit better into how I want to play."
Chelsea or Lyon or Barca riches don't seem possible under current NWSL constraints (except: are rules ever enforced? Let's not ask.) and picking among a zillion blue-chippers seems like an entirely different problem than NWSL squads face.
I'm excited for Hayes to helm USWNT because she has EXACTLY that issue to deal with here.
Parsons also makes an interesting comment about fielding the players who are performing the best. He says Hayes has done that at Chelsea, and then says there was "one club" in the NWSL last year who did that. I wonder who he has in mind. I'm guessing it was Gotham.
A couple of other bits: he's interested to continue coaching, in England would probably be best but also looking to the States. He's not naming any situation, but saying that there are several clubs both in WSL and NWSL that need to perform this year or there will be an opening.
Talks about Tobin's ongoing developmnent, how she went from being an inconsistent scorer to a consistent one over an 18-month period.
His daughter is now 10 years old. God, time flies.
What we don't know, tho, given the timing of Bixby's announcement, is whether there was any connection to her pregnancy.
The semifinal was on November 5, and Bella announced her pregnancy on January 13.
I just took a look back at Bella's announcement. She posted what appear to be second ultrasound images, which are usually taken at 18 to 22 weeks.
So, if that's correct, and then doing a little substraction here and there...
You have to look back at that October 15 match against Angel City and wonder, as she would have been maybe as far along as 9 weeks. Typical side effects/signs of early pregnancy at that stage include: extreme tiredness, feeling sick, mood swings, headaches, cramping. soreness, bloating and/or feeling bloated. The sun was right in her eyes a lot of the time, dealing with changes in sun/shade, she was slower than normal in reaction and movement, and it was hot (at least 80 degrees) that day. Hard to say.
And, once things get out of hand, they can really get out of hand, not just for the keeper but for the entire team. I mean... remember that 5-0 beatdown Portland applied to Jane Campbell and Houston July 24, 2019? Or the 0-6 drubbing that North Carolina applied to Portland and Franch on September 11, 2019? Flurries of goals in both.
LA Times article with interview with our new owners.
Feel even at 63 Mil they got a bargain scooping up the Yankees of women soccer. Considered minority share in LAFC but wanted their own majority stake so passed on that opportunity, but they have been looking for an opportunity since then to enter the league. They feel now was the time to join as the league expands and revenue is upward. So bit about how their father was progressive and the only sibling to not have an arraigned marriage.
“We want to win championships,” her brother added. “And we want to have a lot of fun.”
1. The "Yankees of woso" comment. Even if it's not necessarily true anymore, it does signify that they understand the value of the Thorns as an institution and want the org to get back to the top.
2. The comment about wanting to own their own team instead of being a minority investor in ACFC. From that, I take that they do have some legit ambition beyond investment and want to be truly responsible for the operations of the club.
Yeah, I read this article last night and the "Yankees" comment stuck out the most to me. It means they knew that they're purchasing the best, and with that, always comes the expectation and pressure to stay the best. I don't think they purchase if they weren't committed to those expectations...I just hope they hire accordingly to make that happen. We'll see soon enough!
And yeah, I agree about the second comment you mention. I remember seeing pictures of them schmoozing with some of the investors of ACFC at one of their Revitate events in the last year, so I'm not surprised by that. ACFC does do the business side mostly right, more so than most clubs, so hopefully they have a similar well of folks in the business and soccer worlds to recruit for positions when they fill out their staff. Although as I've mentioned previously, I think it's also super important to get some local names that folks trust in here as well. We need some community ties.
Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers--the three teams that have earned continual hatred, forever. And whose jerseys you spot on kids living in obscure nations with no internet because they somehow represent 'Murka, even not knowing what Cowboys represents..
For awhile the soccer edition was Man U but IDK if that's still the case.
It's more about the reputation, hate from other fans, and history than their current sporting success.....so from that perspective, it's actually a great comparison given the current state of the Thorns.
(but also yes, the Yankees famously don't allow their players to have long hair, dreads, or beards)
There's also the "Everybody hates us and we love to drink their tears of hate" aspect of owning the WoSo Yankees. This can be of use if you understand how to leverage it.
Junior ACFC partners would mirror their Kings gig, and I'm guessing they have some heartburn from watching a decade+ of floundering with no ability to grab the tiller.
Question, I’m confused: everyone keeps asking who we’ll sign with Rocky’s allocation money? Isn’t that presumably Fleming? Or is Rocky’s allocation in a different category than what we’ll use to pay for Fleming?
I think people believe we have Horan's money is still in reserves, and the normal 500Ks, and any unused rolled over allocation money, so the Rocky money is even extra on top of that. We do not have public accounting of the finances so it possible that some or all that money available is in contracts for players like Coffey, and probably Fleming to be above the maximum salary for a player.
From the outside looking in the Rocky money looks like bonus fun money. Especially as the league is phasing it out within a couple years. There is a desire to spend it now.
I've mentioned this a few times in other comments, but we need to shift how we think about NWSL spending now that allocation money is being phased out. Functionally, yes- They still probably have the Horan money in reserve (assuming Paulson didn't just keep it!), but that really doesn't impact how much money the club has to spend. That's entirely governed by the league's new spending and cap rules which are much more straightforward than the abstract allocation money rules of yesteryear.
Maybe, but it seems like the allocation money that was still rolling around is still like regular allocation money of old and doesn't quite count against the $500k limit in the same way as new transfer fee money. I'm gleaning this from the way the terms of the Rocky trade were worded with the performance based add-ons counting explicitly toward the $500k, but the rest just being allocation money.
Hmm, you could be right...but that doesn't really make a ton of sense with how the rules are written because they explicitly mention "intra and inter-league" transfers with no mention of an exception for transfers using allocation money. It was my understanding that "net spend" included all transactions.
If allocation money doesn't count towards your net spend, that drastically changes the playing field. Maybe I'll try asking Vincent/Kassouf/Linnehan on twitter unless anyone here has more knowledge.
The Thorns netted $65K from the Menges and Betfort deals - received $75K for Menges, paid $10K as part of the Betfort deal. (Most people, including me, misread the Betfort deal when it was first announced.)
Okay, sorry, confused again from both Danxp2 and you comments. Isn't salary money totally different than allocation money? So how would any of Horan, Menges, and Betfort's transfer fee go toward Sugita, who is already on the team, and therefore wouldn't need a transfer fee / allocation money? Or am I completely misunderstanding the system?
You can put allocation money towards salary as well as transfers, but there are restrictions on both the amount of salary a team can have ($2.75 million) and the net spend on transfers per year ($500K).
There’s also a difference in how much a team can legally spend under the cap restrictions and how much they *will* spend. I wouldn’t try to figure out how much money the Bhathals want to spend or exactly how much allocation money the Thorns have accumulated (we have no idea, though we can make a decent guess) but instead think about it in terms of the NWSL’s spending rules.
So, for the purposes of this year:
Menges+Betfort: $65K
Rocky: $275K
Fleming: -$315K
Obaze: ??? (Let’s assume -$150K)
Their net spend is therefore approximately $100K. So presumably, they have around 400K to play with unless Obaze’s fee is much higher than my estimate. We don’t know what the salary cap looks like, but I think we can assume they’re not very close to it given the relative lack of big name players on the roster.
Will they spend the rest of that money right away? Who knows!
Ah, okay! Thanks so much to both of you. I’m glad allocation is being phased out if only because it’s confusing. Great to know we have some money to play with to bring in a decent CB.
Allocation money can be used for two purposes. In trades like we did for Rocky and in salaries. The league has a max salary a player can earn. I haven't checked what it is for 2024. For 2023 it was about 70K if I remember correctly. To pay players like Swanson, Dunn, Coffey, Smith, etc. above the league max you currently use allocation money to pay them. This way their hit to your salary cap is only the 70K not the full 200K-400K.
The entire concept of allocation money is being phased out. im 2026 the league has said to streamline salary cap usage. Don't worry about it to much.
For the most part, allocation money used to be the way that you could spend over the cap.
You get 150k in allocation money, you can go over the cap by 50k over 3 years or 75k over 2 years.
+272 USD: Horan
+275 USD: Rocky
+85 USD Menges/Betfort
That’s $632kand I’m not sure if any of the $200k we got for Yaz Ryan was left
($318k) USD - Fleming
($125k) USD - Obaze (from Soccer Donna)
That’s about (443k) USD
That leaves $190k excess. We could use that money to buy down someone’s salary against the cap or to acquire a player
What type of defender can you get for 150k of allocation for $175k USD. I’ve thought about Gabbe Carle out of Washington. She went to FSU, but is a Canada NT’r and I’m not sure if she is starting.
With respect to re-signing Tegan McGrady, she appeared in Bay FC's 2024 preseason roster as a non-roster invitee, so I'm guessing the Thorns are letting her go. I'm disappointed - I would have liked to see more of her.
I didn't see enough fo McGrady to have an opinion. If she plays CB, she's a bit short and we've got a lot of depth there. If she plays fullback...we actually need depth there, if not a starter. We got her in trade for Pogarch, which I think was basically personal reasons? So, I'm not attached, but I hope it's not a missed opportunity.
Part of me wonders if the Thorns plan was to bring Obaze in as a right back and Sevecke was going to be an important backup and now they are trying to figure out what’s next with the heart issues
Are there any fullbacks in the international transfer window that makes sense?
I’ve thought about former Arsenal FB Simone Boye Sorensen.
She went to college in the US (UTSA) and has played for three successful clubs in FC Rosengaard, Bayern Munich, and Arsenal before returning to Denmark.
Obaze isn't a FB and playing her there outside of emergencies would be malpractice. Yes, I know she started out as a FB as a kid, but everything about her game from her physical profile to her strengths in game screams "Centerback."
So.....I hope they didn't intend to play her there, because that would make me question their judgement even more than I already do lol
I have reason to believe Obaze might be looked at as a FB , fortunately or unfortunately. Sevecke was actually intended to be used as a RB from what I've heard....and Obaze is kinda the Sevecke replacement, so that leads me to believe it's possible, esp considering she has previous experience there...though, I think she was purely a LB? That would mean either her or Reyes playing outta position to play RB, which is def not ideal.
I think things will be clearer real soon if/when another CB or another RB comes in.
If that's the case, I really hope that I mis-identified Obaze's skillset -- specifically her weaknesses-- while watching her game tape... which is certainly possible! I think Sevecke, who played both CB and RB pretty consistently throughout her career, was/is more of a polished ball-playing defender than Obaze (who is good on the ball, but is a little rougher around the edges), so RB would have made a little more sense for Sevecke.
Ultimately, you're right: Things will be clearer depending on if they sign anyone and if they do, what that player's position is. Or, if we ever get a media day....?
(Also, if Sevecke was intended to be a RB, would that not indicate that they didn't want to bring Natu back anyhow?)
Ok. I’m just wondering if Sevecke was their first choice OR if they would have just brought both of them in and just went a different direction in the draft.
I find when we use extreme language about a players fit at a position, it is usually hyperbole.
Hina Sugita was outstanding at RW. Frankly, I thought she had a better year last year in a position she was supposedly not a fit at. Could she be better as a midfielder? I believe so, but she was better as a RW last year. Granted she did play a little regressed than a normal RW
Might even be a little bit of that with Beckie at RB if I’m straight forward. She’d be an asset offensively, hut the question is whether her defensive shortcomings would overtake the offensive benefit. Her passing and dribbling skills would be better suited at RB and it minimizes the shot inaccuracy issues. She certainly has the speed to it do it, but she’s been less aggressive in that role when I’ve watched her in the past. If she realizes that it’s her best path to starting, does she go all in?
I think they brought in Obaze to replace Menges personally
Hina works at RW because she's an exceptionally rare talent who is versatile enough to play 3-4 positions at a high level. Most players can't do that.
That doesn't mean teams won't play players out of positions, but it certainly doesn't mean they should...and Obaze and Janine are both examples of that imo.
At last I am so happy! Things are shaping up in a good way. Becky is a class act and with this team getting noticeably younger this year her leadership will be really important.
Brunn missed a chunk of ‘23 thru injury. Us old people are breakable, and center backs tend to get stuck in a bit. Plus the Peregrine organization seemed to have a troubled history with fitness.
So hoping that the new owners take a hard look at that, including possibly shopping for new physios, and Brunn can stay healthy this year.
I have that same concern. Major foot and knee injuries are not what you want on a 39 year old player who has logged a lot of minutes in her career. I also have concerns about speed on the backend with Bruun and Kling. Not sure what Obaze has for speed. Some will say speed isn't that important for CBs, but the league is only getting faster and if you are playing a high line, you need to be able to track down the over-the-top or long through play.
We also got her for 3 years with an option for the 4th, and she had just recently signed with Rosengard.
This deal almost unraveled at the 11th hour due to something amateurish our GM did. What that was, however, I cannot relay.
But when you combine it with the Kuikka situation and the fact that said GM was on vacay when both things happened... well, let's just say that yesterday's big day was important on many fronts.
Well, the Kuikka thing was not understanding the rules. Sounds like many execs have had similar problems (see e.g. the expansion draft snafu). But the other situation? Hoo boy...
Nadim is Loovull's all-time leading goal scorer. She's likely to be eclipsed by Borges or Demelo, of course, but wow... a woman limited to 19 matches in 2.5 seasons due to two ACL injuries STILL managed to net 10 goals. That's crazy.
A little surprised but happy she's still footballing. We already know her ability to swear in region-correct Italian will be better than half her new team.
OT comment on subscriptions: I just tried to sign up (sorry it took so long!), and wasn't able to complete the process. That's because the credit card info field requires the ZIP code. Unfortunately, it's only able to accept 5-digit numbers, and Japanese postal codes are 7-digit. I'd love to support STF, but I don't know a practical way around this. =( And staffers reading this that know a workaround, HMU, please!
On a related note, I probably delayed subscribing (or trying to...) because I wasn't sure if my "supporter-ness" would be at the same high level it's been since 2013 after moving half a world away and having local(ish) teams to support. I should have known better. PTFCTID (but might be buried in Verdy Beleza green...)!
Hey David, If you need help you could send me your details and I'll register you using my card. You can pay me back via Venmo or whatever or just good thoughts. rhamje56 at the googly mail if you want to give it a try
Also only 2 conflicts with Timbers games - not bad. On a side note, I find it interesting that there doesn't seem to be much crossover between fan groups, at least on STF. I am much more of a Thorns fan and WoSo fan in general, but I try to watch every game of both teams.
Pretty good schedule. Houston and Orlando away in May isn't too bad.
Seems very spread out, like way more than in previous years. Are we playing the same number of games? I know there is the Olympic break in the middle, but the rest of the schedule seems light.
Does anyone have trouble seeing many things on the Thorns site via Firefox? I disabled ad-block but still have issues. I can see everything just fine via Chrome so that's what I end up using.
On the Thorns site I can't see the roster or videos using Firefox. I can generally see news stories and other things. I've tried turning off tracking protection, but it makes no difference. I end up using MS Edge, because that's what I've got. I don't know whether it's my settings or just an incompatibility.
Ok, I'm glad it's not just me. I've been having other problems with Firefox lately (freezing requiring a restart) so maybe I'll finally switch browsers.
I posted this below, but I wanted to re-up given how important it is in terms of projecting what the org is trying to do moving forwards:
Do transfer fees paid for using allocation money count towards the 500K net spend cap? My assumption was yes, but as SalsaChoque pointed out, the wording of the Rocky transfer announcement seems to indicate that it doesn't.
This has major implications both for how much money the team has to spend, and also what their intentions are. Since allocation money can be used on contracts or transfers AND is getting rapidly phased out, this would mean they either have another transfer to make or are planning to use it on one or more contract extensions. $275K is A LOT of allocation money, and presumably it's less desirable because it is getting phased out.
For folks who are generally confused about all of this *waves hands*, could you explain each of the potential implications for either scenario?
My limited understanding of what you're laying out is that if it doesn't count towards the the 500K, then that's good and we should be sitting on a very good chunk of money (even after the JFlem acquisition), and, because allocation money is going away, we kinda wanna spend that sooner than later? Use it because we're gonna eventually lose it?
Any potentially attainable RB's you can think of who we could get with that $$$?
Side note, but: I mean, damn, couldn't they even try to find a RB who we could get on loan for the time being (maybe until summer or next offseason?) who may be buried in depth on a really good Euro team but are still good quality and would enjoy some minutes? That doesn't cost anything does it?
1. $500K transfer fee cap with 25% of any funds spent over that cap going towards the salary cap as a pseudo luxury tax.
2. $2.75mil Salary cap
3. Allocation money is "use it or lose it" before the 2026 season....so pretty much two years.
The question I have is whether allocation money goes towards the $500K limit. If it DOESN'T (as appears to be the implication in the Rocky transfer report) the reasonable interpretation of that move is that the org has real plans for the $275K fee because there is no real benefit to having more allocation money as it gets less and less valuable except to stockpile for an international signing or contract money. Because there are two years left to use it, the club could theoretically wait until next year to spend it (perhaps to a team that wants to spend it on salary or an international player). So, if my reasoning is correct, the implication is that they either need it for a transfer, want to use it on contract extensions, or both. This also raises another question: If the team used allocation money to purchase Obaze and/or Fleming, that wouldn't count against the limit either....but we don't know where that money came from.
If it DOES count towards the 500K, it means nothing more than they have plenty of room under the $500K cap to work with because the $275K from the Rocky deal +the $65K from Menges/Betfort offsets the Fleming fee.
We may be using a chunk to pay down salaries for Fleming and Obaze. There was lots of talk about the transfer fees but no talk about the actual player salaries. Did we match was Chelsea was playing Fleming? That could be a large number, like in the neighborhood of the transfer fee. Staying under the cap could be tricky.
And don't forget we re-signed Provenzano - I hate to think what that cost :-)
I honestly don't know if you can "pay down" salaries using allocation money anymore. They never released the full 2024 competition rules --just snippets-- so it's nearly impossible to tell what you can and can't do in 2024. You may very well be able to, but then what happens when allocation money goes away?
I expect we will see a DP rule, ala MLS, in 2025. I hope we don't get a homegrown rule like MLS' because that gets into the whole territory BS and would threaten our academies in LA and KC. I'd prefer that we be more aggressive about getting our talent signed before ACFC or KCC poach them. Stupid NCAA eligibility rules mean you can't sign them unless they plan to take the Alyssa Thompson route. Realistically, that caliber of player is few and far between. There should be a deferred "when you graduate, you're ours if you go pro" contract that NCAA could live with.
Eyeing the Spirit's preseason roster and not seeing Sheva or Brooks. I think it's possible we see either here...Sheva was in Portland in the early offseason for about a week. Do we really need another attacking midfielder though....prob not? Brooks would prob be a better CB sub than Nally and she's a former Thorn...
I'd take Brooks just for the experience, but she certainly doesn't help the lack of pace lmao. My prevailing non double-bird Amber Brooks memories of late are mostly of Soph getting predator eyes whenever she saw Brooks in the defense and absolutely cooking her (although so do most CBs not named Naomi Girma including both McKeown and Staab in last season's 4-2, so that's not necessarily her fault).
I had totally forgotten that she is a former Thorn (my memory is really bad). I don't think she's that great of a player, but as you say, she's better than Nally and would add a nasty physical presence to the back line. Does she play RB? I picked her in the Beer at PP Challenge to name the underwhelming player to replace Kuikka.
Probably not, but her experience would be nice to have. If something should happen to Bruun, which is a distinct possibility, I shudder at the idea of extended Obaze-Hubly or Obaze-Nally. Also like that she is a bruiser. To be clear, I'm not advocating for signing Brooks, quite the opposite, actually.
Love it. Not sure what is considered "prime" or "peak" age for female soccer players, but I know for male hockey players it is between 27-29 years old. I like the idea of having a young team. We can always bring in a veteran leader type if need be. Ideally that role would be in-house.
Hunch, like the "other football" it partly depends on position, e.g., the career average of an NFL running back is 2.5 years. QBs are 2X that and offensive linemen follow.
Guessing pure strikers have the shortest careers, keepers the longest and DBs 2nd longest. SWAGs all, and limited to the physical toll and positional demands. Mastering the technical intricacies of some positions is harder than for others.
I think it’s a balance. There are several teams in hockey that lack veteran leaders and still suck even though they have top prospects. Vets are important for culture
What a relief.
So for all I think she porked the pup with Kuikka our favorite pink-coated GM has otherwise managed to fill in the roster pretty damn nicely, so overall? Take ten bucks out of petty cash, KK. Good job.
Now the real test begins.
Because we had a strong roster last season and several shortcomings - but largely on matchday and roster management - managed to trip the squad up in both vying for the Shield in the season and in the semifinal in the playoffs.
So the question becomes; is our head coach learning?
Presuming he and LeBlanc successfully sort out the RB question this should be a hellishly hard squad to beat this coming season.
Will it? I hope so!
We've got about 52 days before we begin finding out.
Becky provides a stability that helps other players improve. Kling started to reemerge when put next to her, because she makes the right decision almost always. She was the #1 retain from FA. Glad she’s back.
Some are talking about a 3-5-2, presumably with new signing Fleming opposite Reyes as a wingback. Thoughts? I pretty much irrationally hate a 3-5-2 and feel like people are just being sentimental about trying to get all of their favorite players on the field together at the same time rather than thinking about what works. I don't see Kling as part of a back 3. I don't want to sit Reyes for her at this point either. If we play her as a left wingback, does that relegate Reyes to the bench in favor or Fleming on the right? That's crap. Reyes has some growing to do but I don't think she should be on the bench now. Or, do we play Reyes as RB and Kling at LB? We'd still need fullback depth.
I'm not confident in our forwards/strikers behind Smith yet either. I just haven't seen enough of Izzy or Beckie to think they can score enough goals.
Also, I'm assuming Sinc is a supersub at this point, but she started more games than I thought she would last season. Is she a CAM or a forward now? If she starts, is it Hina or Moultrie sitting?
How do we look during the Olympics?
I hope we make more moves. I'm personally a bit annoyed at the retirement laps but I respect letting players say goodbye to the supporters and appreciate how valuable veterans can be in the transition to new ownership.
When do we need to panic about re-signing Smith? She's worth more than Swanson, yeah?
No, no, no, no. No No No. No. I never want to see a 3/5 back ever again unless Antonio Conte randomly decides he wants to start coaching woso in Portland, and Norris wants to play 4-3-3 anyhow. But even so:
- It would be Beckie as the RWB with Reyes on the left. Jessie Fleming ain't playing a minute of RB/RWB. Neither Reyes or Beckie have the pace to be an effective wingback.
- We only have 3 competent CBs (and that's assuming Obaze figures the league out relatively quickly), so there's no reason to have all three of them on the field at once
- Any 4-back formation gets all the good players on the field more effectively anyhow because defense is our weakest positional group. Assuming no new additions and barring any Sinc shenanigans, the lineup should be pretty straightforward: Hogan, Kling-Becky-Hubly-Reyes, Coffey-Fleming-Moultrie, Weaver-Smith-Hina.
Thank you. Can you reword this argument for Timbers supporters as well?
Thanks, I had assumed that you need to have pacy wingbacks to play a 3/5 but wasn't sure. I can see the logic behind the opposite being true, though, in that since you have 3 CBs instead of just 2, that makes it less reliant on your outside backs being able to track down forwards on a counter.
It's because wing backs in 3-5-2 are really just wingers with added defensive duties, so they have to cover a TON of ground both offensively. 3/5 backs also often have super mobile sixes to cover the wings when the wingback is caught up field, and for all Sam's great atrributes.....she doesn't have the athleticism to cover the wings in addition to doing all the other stuff she's really good at.
Ok, that makes sense, thanks.
3-in-the-back requires pace on the part of all three to work. That's just an unavoidable ramification of the extra space (unless the wingbacks are playing deep all the time, which negates the whole point). We have some wonderful players out of which to form our back line...but in several cases, pace isn't really in their toolbox. Even a later-career Menges is still fast enough (just not the absolute blur she was early on); no one else really is fast enough for 3-in-the-back.
It also calls for at least one fullback and/or defensive mid who is essentially a center back at times. That’s not Coffey, Kling, or Reyes but maybe Nally? We’d still lack speed, quality, and consistency though.
If we have the roster for a three-CB formation? Fine! Not sure we do, and not sure Norris would go there; he was pretty locked into the 4-3-3 last season even when it looked pretty clear that his roster worked better in a 4-2-3-1.
Sport - if it means anything - is about not giving away the gift. That means as a player you give your all…including knowing when your all is no longer good enough to help your team.
So to drag some beloved player around for some sort of farewell tour when that player is clearly barely replacement-level is unfair to the player’s teammates and, frankly, to the player.
Smith is signed thru ‘24. If she hasn’t extended by the end of the year? Then, yes; worry.
We have to show Sophia that Portland is the best place for her long term. It’s a quick flight to her boyfriend and family as well as close to Nike. The new ownership is off to a great start bringing in Fleming. I was worried about Smith’s stagnant comment.
With the versatility of Sugita and Weaver, I think the formation kind of morphs during the game.
I’m curious to see what they do. I could see them bring in a RB or move Beckie to RB. Her defensive press isn’t what I want in the position, and I’d prefer they don’t, but her offensive skill set is a fit there and Norris tends to focus on offensive roles.
would KK play the Canada card again and bring in CNT RB Riviere from Man U. From what I can tell she splits time there. Would she be an upgrade or level player?
She just signed a 3 year contract about a week ago. She would have been a target if not for that extension. My guess is we probably inquired and they locked her up
Which cost him in the end; both the final regular season matchday and the semifinal were defensive breakdowns. That’s only acceptable if Smith goes all Brazil and smart opponents know that and throw a rug over her.
Hopefully we’ll see a more complete tactical setup this season.
https://x.com/Phuocerman/status/1750662763989651761?s=20
Posted on this thread too, because this must be spread like the gospel and Phuoc (or whoever asked this) is a hero
That's an answer that I remember Parsons giving at times too.
And it was usually true, tbf. The org doesn't have any motivation to raise expectations if they're not going to sign anyone, so I have no reason to think that it won't happen.
Long bench with Marsky Parsky, courtesy of The Ringer:
https://www.theringer.com/2024/1/25/24050410/mark-parsons-netherlands-nwsl-head-coach-interview
Parsons's analysis of Kerr is terrific, and his comment about the NWSL re: how a scandal within one club indicts the entire league is quite telling.
Conversation provides interesting perspective on the Fleming transfer from a Chelsea standpoint -- well-regarded, unbelievable athlete with a great engine, but she didn't ever really click and have the extra level at Chelsea, probably a better match for the NWSL style and is someone who needs to be on the ball. It's "a bit of good business" for Chelsea to get a large transfer fee for someone who, for whatever reason, wasn't a fit there.
Convo also describes the NWSL style as end-to-end in terms of energy and intensity, sprinting and transition rather than thinking and making calm decisions, and a mindset that any team can win any game.
Parsons says that from the youth level (ages 4-5), Americans always have to show out and prove themselves in tryouts, always are going 100%. The NWSL is trying to apply tactics and technique to turned-up speed.
Parsons talks about Portland playing Lyon in 2021, saying that Lyon played them full strength throughout and Portland subbed on starters in the 2nd half, and once they did Lyon couldn't keep up. Parsons claims Chelsea and Arsenal are closest to being like NWSL clubs from the physical standpoint.
Finally... Parsons says he would NOT try to do Netherlands and Portland at the same time if he had it to do over again. The grind was huge. Said it was unfair to everyone and didn't serve everyone's best interests for him to be doing both, even though 2021 was the Thorns "best season" during his Portland tenure.
I really like counter-pressed, but that "extra-level" comment rubbed me the wrong way, as did the typical euro-speak reducing Fleming to her athleticism and engine. Glad Parsons brought up her technical ability because that's really her strongest attribute,
I'm sorry, I watch quite a bit of Chelsea and Jelena Cankovic, Katerina Svitkova, and Melanie Leupolz are simply not technically better --frankly, not even close-- than Jessie Fleming. They fit Hayes' system (ironically, probably a relatively comparable system to some in NWSL) better, but Fleming's problem is not her "lack of an extra-level," so much as the coach has a lot of options and prefers other players- which is fine! It's Chelsea!
(Rant over)
Yeah, for whatever reason it didn't work out for Fleming there. That happens. Hopefully it does work out here.
The reason is simply Emma Hayes preferred other types of midfielders in her team. We don't see that in NWSL because it's usually if you're good, you have to play because there are not better options in your team and NWSL teams typically can't afford to simply buy and buy.
Big euro teams like Chelsea have the luxury of bringing in a bunch of really talented players and letting the coach decide who they like better for their system. Say for some reason Norris didn't like how Weaver fit into his system- He still couldn't bench her because she's so clearly much better than every bench option. Emma Hayes can say "Jessie is super talented but I also have Erin Cuthbert, Fran Kirby, Jelena Cankovic, Katerina Svitkova, and Melanie Leupolz. I think they fit better into how I want to play."
Channeling Mel Brooks: "It's good to be king."
Chelsea or Lyon or Barca riches don't seem possible under current NWSL constraints (except: are rules ever enforced? Let's not ask.) and picking among a zillion blue-chippers seems like an entirely different problem than NWSL squads face.
I'm excited for Hayes to helm USWNT because she has EXACTLY that issue to deal with here.
Re "Portland playing Lyon in 2021, saying that Lyon played them full strength throughout":
I gotta disagree. Lyon had a bunch of players missing, and looked to me to be playing it more as a friendly than we were.
Still happy with the W that day!
What they didn't ask, but what I have to wonder, is whether Parsons would leave Thorns if he had it to do all over again?
Parsons also makes an interesting comment about fielding the players who are performing the best. He says Hayes has done that at Chelsea, and then says there was "one club" in the NWSL last year who did that. I wonder who he has in mind. I'm guessing it was Gotham.
A couple of other bits: he's interested to continue coaching, in England would probably be best but also looking to the States. He's not naming any situation, but saying that there are several clubs both in WSL and NWSL that need to perform this year or there will be an opening.
Talks about Tobin's ongoing developmnent, how she went from being an inconsistent scorer to a consistent one over an 18-month period.
His daughter is now 10 years old. God, time flies.
Edie's player interviews during MarPar's final year were a treasure.
How many coaches would have tried Nighswonger at FB when they had O’Hara available and play Ryan over Mewis?
And a talented but young McGlynn over Betos in a championship run, perhaps too.
That’s basically the equivalent of Portland choosing to go with Hogan over Bixby. That should have happened last year IMO, but it’s tough.
What we don't know, tho, given the timing of Bixby's announcement, is whether there was any connection to her pregnancy.
The semifinal was on November 5, and Bella announced her pregnancy on January 13.
I just took a look back at Bella's announcement. She posted what appear to be second ultrasound images, which are usually taken at 18 to 22 weeks.
So, if that's correct, and then doing a little substraction here and there...
You have to look back at that October 15 match against Angel City and wonder, as she would have been maybe as far along as 9 weeks. Typical side effects/signs of early pregnancy at that stage include: extreme tiredness, feeling sick, mood swings, headaches, cramping. soreness, bloating and/or feeling bloated. The sun was right in her eyes a lot of the time, dealing with changes in sun/shade, she was slower than normal in reaction and movement, and it was hot (at least 80 degrees) that day. Hard to say.
And, once things get out of hand, they can really get out of hand, not just for the keeper but for the entire team. I mean... remember that 5-0 beatdown Portland applied to Jane Campbell and Houston July 24, 2019? Or the 0-6 drubbing that North Carolina applied to Portland and Franch on September 11, 2019? Flurries of goals in both.
What did the Thorns know and when did they know it? Inquiring minds want to know.
You might even begin to say that the ACFC performance could be related as well.
All I’m saying is I think Hogan has more upside and I’m excited to see what she can do. She should have gotten more playing time last year
https://x.com/ThornsFC/status/1750357827246514411?s=20
Footage!
Stumptown Footage?
WTF does "instance had been rate limited" mean. Elmo passing the collection plate?
https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/story/2024-01-23/portland-thorns-brother-sister-owners-nwsl
LA Times article with interview with our new owners.
Feel even at 63 Mil they got a bargain scooping up the Yankees of women soccer. Considered minority share in LAFC but wanted their own majority stake so passed on that opportunity, but they have been looking for an opportunity since then to enter the league. They feel now was the time to join as the league expands and revenue is upward. So bit about how their father was progressive and the only sibling to not have an arraigned marriage.
“We want to win championships,” her brother added. “And we want to have a lot of fun.”
Two things really stood out:
1. The "Yankees of woso" comment. Even if it's not necessarily true anymore, it does signify that they understand the value of the Thorns as an institution and want the org to get back to the top.
2. The comment about wanting to own their own team instead of being a minority investor in ACFC. From that, I take that they do have some legit ambition beyond investment and want to be truly responsible for the operations of the club.
Yeah, I read this article last night and the "Yankees" comment stuck out the most to me. It means they knew that they're purchasing the best, and with that, always comes the expectation and pressure to stay the best. I don't think they purchase if they weren't committed to those expectations...I just hope they hire accordingly to make that happen. We'll see soon enough!
And yeah, I agree about the second comment you mention. I remember seeing pictures of them schmoozing with some of the investors of ACFC at one of their Revitate events in the last year, so I'm not surprised by that. ACFC does do the business side mostly right, more so than most clubs, so hopefully they have a similar well of folks in the business and soccer worlds to recruit for positions when they fill out their staff. Although as I've mentioned previously, I think it's also super important to get some local names that folks trust in here as well. We need some community ties.
Yankees of WoSo? Does that mean Steinbhathal won't let them sport beards and long hair?
Shave those sideburns, Mattingly. https://youtu.be/gjHOtxCRhnw?feature=shared
I said NO long hair and beards, JChrist! Now bring it in high and tight, you hippie!
Lol I don't know anything about baseball so I have no opinion here...but I do know that Yankees were very good at some point, yes? lol
Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers--the three teams that have earned continual hatred, forever. And whose jerseys you spot on kids living in obscure nations with no internet because they somehow represent 'Murka, even not knowing what Cowboys represents..
For awhile the soccer edition was Man U but IDK if that's still the case.
It's more about the reputation, hate from other fans, and history than their current sporting success.....so from that perspective, it's actually a great comparison given the current state of the Thorns.
(but also yes, the Yankees famously don't allow their players to have long hair, dreads, or beards)
I'm talkin' 'bout the Yankees of WoSo!
https://youtu.be/RgLWTrWgDTI?t=120
Judges would also accept Shaft. Can you dig it?
You damn right...
There's also the "Everybody hates us and we love to drink their tears of hate" aspect of owning the WoSo Yankees. This can be of use if you understand how to leverage it.
Junior ACFC partners would mirror their Kings gig, and I'm guessing they have some heartburn from watching a decade+ of floundering with no ability to grab the tiller.
I will say the initial move they just made has me optimistic. It has risks to it, but I always target upside and getting the best player in the deal.
Dunn, Rodriguez, and Kuikka for Fleming and whom they sign with Rodriguez’s allocation money
Question, I’m confused: everyone keeps asking who we’ll sign with Rocky’s allocation money? Isn’t that presumably Fleming? Or is Rocky’s allocation in a different category than what we’ll use to pay for Fleming?
I think people believe we have Horan's money is still in reserves, and the normal 500Ks, and any unused rolled over allocation money, so the Rocky money is even extra on top of that. We do not have public accounting of the finances so it possible that some or all that money available is in contracts for players like Coffey, and probably Fleming to be above the maximum salary for a player.
From the outside looking in the Rocky money looks like bonus fun money. Especially as the league is phasing it out within a couple years. There is a desire to spend it now.
I've mentioned this a few times in other comments, but we need to shift how we think about NWSL spending now that allocation money is being phased out. Functionally, yes- They still probably have the Horan money in reserve (assuming Paulson didn't just keep it!), but that really doesn't impact how much money the club has to spend. That's entirely governed by the league's new spending and cap rules which are much more straightforward than the abstract allocation money rules of yesteryear.
Maybe, but it seems like the allocation money that was still rolling around is still like regular allocation money of old and doesn't quite count against the $500k limit in the same way as new transfer fee money. I'm gleaning this from the way the terms of the Rocky trade were worded with the performance based add-ons counting explicitly toward the $500k, but the rest just being allocation money.
Hmm, you could be right...but that doesn't really make a ton of sense with how the rules are written because they explicitly mention "intra and inter-league" transfers with no mention of an exception for transfers using allocation money. It was my understanding that "net spend" included all transactions.
If allocation money doesn't count towards your net spend, that drastically changes the playing field. Maybe I'll try asking Vincent/Kassouf/Linnehan on twitter unless anyone here has more knowledge.
The had 250k euros from Horan and 85K USD between Menges and Betfort deals. That’s more than the Fleming payout.
I’m sure they earmarked some of that money to Sugita.
They should have enough money to pay for a player. The question is how much when you factor in salary considerations.
The Thorns netted $65K from the Menges and Betfort deals - received $75K for Menges, paid $10K as part of the Betfort deal. (Most people, including me, misread the Betfort deal when it was first announced.)
Okay, sorry, confused again from both Danxp2 and you comments. Isn't salary money totally different than allocation money? So how would any of Horan, Menges, and Betfort's transfer fee go toward Sugita, who is already on the team, and therefore wouldn't need a transfer fee / allocation money? Or am I completely misunderstanding the system?
You can put allocation money towards salary as well as transfers, but there are restrictions on both the amount of salary a team can have ($2.75 million) and the net spend on transfers per year ($500K).
There’s also a difference in how much a team can legally spend under the cap restrictions and how much they *will* spend. I wouldn’t try to figure out how much money the Bhathals want to spend or exactly how much allocation money the Thorns have accumulated (we have no idea, though we can make a decent guess) but instead think about it in terms of the NWSL’s spending rules.
So, for the purposes of this year:
Menges+Betfort: $65K
Rocky: $275K
Fleming: -$315K
Obaze: ??? (Let’s assume -$150K)
Their net spend is therefore approximately $100K. So presumably, they have around 400K to play with unless Obaze’s fee is much higher than my estimate. We don’t know what the salary cap looks like, but I think we can assume they’re not very close to it given the relative lack of big name players on the roster.
Will they spend the rest of that money right away? Who knows!
Ah, okay! Thanks so much to both of you. I’m glad allocation is being phased out if only because it’s confusing. Great to know we have some money to play with to bring in a decent CB.
Allocation money can be used for two purposes. In trades like we did for Rocky and in salaries. The league has a max salary a player can earn. I haven't checked what it is for 2024. For 2023 it was about 70K if I remember correctly. To pay players like Swanson, Dunn, Coffey, Smith, etc. above the league max you currently use allocation money to pay them. This way their hit to your salary cap is only the 70K not the full 200K-400K.
The entire concept of allocation money is being phased out. im 2026 the league has said to streamline salary cap usage. Don't worry about it to much.
For the most part, allocation money used to be the way that you could spend over the cap.
You get 150k in allocation money, you can go over the cap by 50k over 3 years or 75k over 2 years.
+272 USD: Horan
+275 USD: Rocky
+85 USD Menges/Betfort
That’s $632kand I’m not sure if any of the $200k we got for Yaz Ryan was left
($318k) USD - Fleming
($125k) USD - Obaze (from Soccer Donna)
That’s about (443k) USD
That leaves $190k excess. We could use that money to buy down someone’s salary against the cap or to acquire a player
What type of defender can you get for 150k of allocation for $175k USD. I’ve thought about Gabbe Carle out of Washington. She went to FSU, but is a Canada NT’r and I’m not sure if she is starting.
With respect to re-signing Tegan McGrady, she appeared in Bay FC's 2024 preseason roster as a non-roster invitee, so I'm guessing the Thorns are letting her go. I'm disappointed - I would have liked to see more of her.
https://bayfc.com/press-releases/bay-fc-announces-2024-preseason-roster-to-open-training-camp/
I didn't see enough fo McGrady to have an opinion. If she plays CB, she's a bit short and we've got a lot of depth there. If she plays fullback...we actually need depth there, if not a starter. We got her in trade for Pogarch, which I think was basically personal reasons? So, I'm not attached, but I hope it's not a missed opportunity.
She's a fullback, but I guess 2 years and like 2 minutes is probably not what she's wants in life so my guess is she asked to leave.
Part of me wonders if the Thorns plan was to bring Obaze in as a right back and Sevecke was going to be an important backup and now they are trying to figure out what’s next with the heart issues
Are there any fullbacks in the international transfer window that makes sense?
I’ve thought about former Arsenal FB Simone Boye Sorensen.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Boye_Sørensen
She went to college in the US (UTSA) and has played for three successful clubs in FC Rosengaard, Bayern Munich, and Arsenal before returning to Denmark.
Just curious if anybody has seen anything?
Obaze isn't a FB and playing her there outside of emergencies would be malpractice. Yes, I know she started out as a FB as a kid, but everything about her game from her physical profile to her strengths in game screams "Centerback."
So.....I hope they didn't intend to play her there, because that would make me question their judgement even more than I already do lol
I have reason to believe Obaze might be looked at as a FB , fortunately or unfortunately. Sevecke was actually intended to be used as a RB from what I've heard....and Obaze is kinda the Sevecke replacement, so that leads me to believe it's possible, esp considering she has previous experience there...though, I think she was purely a LB? That would mean either her or Reyes playing outta position to play RB, which is def not ideal.
I think things will be clearer real soon if/when another CB or another RB comes in.
Then we're gonna need another centre back. Either way, we need another defender.
They have the means, but I’m curious to see what they do. If they sign a forward, my guess is some will be questioning what that means.
If that's the case, I really hope that I mis-identified Obaze's skillset -- specifically her weaknesses-- while watching her game tape... which is certainly possible! I think Sevecke, who played both CB and RB pretty consistently throughout her career, was/is more of a polished ball-playing defender than Obaze (who is good on the ball, but is a little rougher around the edges), so RB would have made a little more sense for Sevecke.
Ultimately, you're right: Things will be clearer depending on if they sign anyone and if they do, what that player's position is. Or, if we ever get a media day....?
(Also, if Sevecke was intended to be a RB, would that not indicate that they didn't want to bring Natu back anyhow?)
Ok. I’m just wondering if Sevecke was their first choice OR if they would have just brought both of them in and just went a different direction in the draft.
I find when we use extreme language about a players fit at a position, it is usually hyperbole.
Hina Sugita was outstanding at RW. Frankly, I thought she had a better year last year in a position she was supposedly not a fit at. Could she be better as a midfielder? I believe so, but she was better as a RW last year. Granted she did play a little regressed than a normal RW
Might even be a little bit of that with Beckie at RB if I’m straight forward. She’d be an asset offensively, hut the question is whether her defensive shortcomings would overtake the offensive benefit. Her passing and dribbling skills would be better suited at RB and it minimizes the shot inaccuracy issues. She certainly has the speed to it do it, but she’s been less aggressive in that role when I’ve watched her in the past. If she realizes that it’s her best path to starting, does she go all in?
I think they brought in Obaze to replace Menges personally
Hina works at RW because she's an exceptionally rare talent who is versatile enough to play 3-4 positions at a high level. Most players can't do that.
That doesn't mean teams won't play players out of positions, but it certainly doesn't mean they should...and Obaze and Janine are both examples of that imo.
At last I am so happy! Things are shaping up in a good way. Becky is a class act and with this team getting noticeably younger this year her leadership will be really important.
Big concern (for me, anyway); durability.
Brunn missed a chunk of ‘23 thru injury. Us old people are breakable, and center backs tend to get stuck in a bit. Plus the Peregrine organization seemed to have a troubled history with fitness.
So hoping that the new owners take a hard look at that, including possibly shopping for new physios, and Brunn can stay healthy this year.
I have that same concern. Major foot and knee injuries are not what you want on a 39 year old player who has logged a lot of minutes in her career. I also have concerns about speed on the backend with Bruun and Kling. Not sure what Obaze has for speed. Some will say speed isn't that important for CBs, but the league is only getting faster and if you are playing a high line, you need to be able to track down the over-the-top or long through play.
We paid 114k euro according to the Soccer Donna in transfer fee for Obaze. We obviously think she has some talent
That’s about what Reign FC paid for Sam Meza. To be fair, my guess is they had Meza rated higher than the 17th pick.
We also got her for 3 years with an option for the 4th, and she had just recently signed with Rosengard.
This deal almost unraveled at the 11th hour due to something amateurish our GM did. What that was, however, I cannot relay.
But when you combine it with the Kuikka situation and the fact that said GM was on vacay when both things happened... well, let's just say that yesterday's big day was important on many fronts.
In reality, she atleast needs to have someone in the org who understands the rules if she doesn’t.
Yesterday, bought her time to get the necessary support. If she’s smart, she will get it,
She’s not my first or second choice to run the org, but if she puts the right people around her … she has NOT shown that she can’t do the job.
I will suggest it was looking pretty dire there until she signed Fleming
Well, the Kuikka thing was not understanding the rules. Sounds like many execs have had similar problems (see e.g. the expansion draft snafu). But the other situation? Hoo boy...
OT: Dr Nadim's signing with AC Milan now official.
https://www.instagram.com/acmilanwomen/p/C2mX3_MMD85/
Nadim is Loovull's all-time leading goal scorer. She's likely to be eclipsed by Borges or Demelo, of course, but wow... a woman limited to 19 matches in 2.5 seasons due to two ACL injuries STILL managed to net 10 goals. That's crazy.
A little surprised but happy she's still footballing. We already know her ability to swear in region-correct Italian will be better than half her new team.
Unfortunately, Denmark didn't qualify for the Olympics. Then again, neither did Sweden. So, Nadia and Kosovare will have the season to focus on.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39372660/uswnt-transfer-grades-2024-nwsl-moves-mean-americans
Interesting recap!
OT comment on subscriptions: I just tried to sign up (sorry it took so long!), and wasn't able to complete the process. That's because the credit card info field requires the ZIP code. Unfortunately, it's only able to accept 5-digit numbers, and Japanese postal codes are 7-digit. I'd love to support STF, but I don't know a practical way around this. =( And staffers reading this that know a workaround, HMU, please!
On a related note, I probably delayed subscribing (or trying to...) because I wasn't sure if my "supporter-ness" would be at the same high level it's been since 2013 after moving half a world away and having local(ish) teams to support. I should have known better. PTFCTID (but might be buried in Verdy Beleza green...)!
Hey David, If you need help you could send me your details and I'll register you using my card. You can pay me back via Venmo or whatever or just good thoughts. rhamje56 at the googly mail if you want to give it a try
Thorns schedule now posted: https://www.timbers.com/thornsfc/schedule/#competition=all&date=2024-02-24.
Home breakdown is this: Friday 7PM (5), Saturday 7PM (5), Saturday 4:30PM (1), Sunday 4PM (1), Sunday 1PM (1)
Also, free sign-up for NWSL+ platform!
With the Olympics donut hole, summer home matches are scant.
Mmmm, donuts.
Also only 2 conflicts with Timbers games - not bad. On a side note, I find it interesting that there doesn't seem to be much crossover between fan groups, at least on STF. I am much more of a Thorns fan and WoSo fan in general, but I try to watch every game of both teams.
Pretty good schedule. Houston and Orlando away in May isn't too bad.
Seems very spread out, like way more than in previous years. Are we playing the same number of games? I know there is the Olympic break in the middle, but the rest of the schedule seems light.
Does anyone have trouble seeing many things on the Thorns site via Firefox? I disabled ad-block but still have issues. I can see everything just fine via Chrome so that's what I end up using.
On the Thorns site I can't see the roster or videos using Firefox. I can generally see news stories and other things. I've tried turning off tracking protection, but it makes no difference. I end up using MS Edge, because that's what I've got. I don't know whether it's my settings or just an incompatibility.
Ok, I'm glad it's not just me. I've been having other problems with Firefox lately (freezing requiring a restart) so maybe I'll finally switch browsers.
Well, I have not been having the freeze problem. Reinstalling Firefox might help with that.
occasionally so, yes.
I posted this below, but I wanted to re-up given how important it is in terms of projecting what the org is trying to do moving forwards:
Do transfer fees paid for using allocation money count towards the 500K net spend cap? My assumption was yes, but as SalsaChoque pointed out, the wording of the Rocky transfer announcement seems to indicate that it doesn't.
This has major implications both for how much money the team has to spend, and also what their intentions are. Since allocation money can be used on contracts or transfers AND is getting rapidly phased out, this would mean they either have another transfer to make or are planning to use it on one or more contract extensions. $275K is A LOT of allocation money, and presumably it's less desirable because it is getting phased out.
For folks who are generally confused about all of this *waves hands*, could you explain each of the potential implications for either scenario?
My limited understanding of what you're laying out is that if it doesn't count towards the the 500K, then that's good and we should be sitting on a very good chunk of money (even after the JFlem acquisition), and, because allocation money is going away, we kinda wanna spend that sooner than later? Use it because we're gonna eventually lose it?
Any potentially attainable RB's you can think of who we could get with that $$$?
Side note, but: I mean, damn, couldn't they even try to find a RB who we could get on loan for the time being (maybe until summer or next offseason?) who may be buried in depth on a really good Euro team but are still good quality and would enjoy some minutes? That doesn't cost anything does it?
You have two seasons to use it.
1. You can use it to buy a player under contract
OR
2. You can give it to a player on a 2 year contract and go over the cap by 1/2 your allocation amount per year
OR
3. You can give it to a player on a 1 year contract and go over your cap by your full allocation amount
OR
Some combination of 1 and 2 or 3
I have a bit of time on my lunch break, so:
The new competition rules added three main items:
1. $500K transfer fee cap with 25% of any funds spent over that cap going towards the salary cap as a pseudo luxury tax.
2. $2.75mil Salary cap
3. Allocation money is "use it or lose it" before the 2026 season....so pretty much two years.
The question I have is whether allocation money goes towards the $500K limit. If it DOESN'T (as appears to be the implication in the Rocky transfer report) the reasonable interpretation of that move is that the org has real plans for the $275K fee because there is no real benefit to having more allocation money as it gets less and less valuable except to stockpile for an international signing or contract money. Because there are two years left to use it, the club could theoretically wait until next year to spend it (perhaps to a team that wants to spend it on salary or an international player). So, if my reasoning is correct, the implication is that they either need it for a transfer, want to use it on contract extensions, or both. This also raises another question: If the team used allocation money to purchase Obaze and/or Fleming, that wouldn't count against the limit either....but we don't know where that money came from.
If it DOES count towards the 500K, it means nothing more than they have plenty of room under the $500K cap to work with because the $275K from the Rocky deal +the $65K from Menges/Betfort offsets the Fleming fee.
We may be using a chunk to pay down salaries for Fleming and Obaze. There was lots of talk about the transfer fees but no talk about the actual player salaries. Did we match was Chelsea was playing Fleming? That could be a large number, like in the neighborhood of the transfer fee. Staying under the cap could be tricky.
And don't forget we re-signed Provenzano - I hate to think what that cost :-)
"Hey, you put a One and two Zeros in front of that or we pass!"
"How much did you get?"
"One thousand and one pesos."
I honestly don't know if you can "pay down" salaries using allocation money anymore. They never released the full 2024 competition rules --just snippets-- so it's nearly impossible to tell what you can and can't do in 2024. You may very well be able to, but then what happens when allocation money goes away?
I expect we will see a DP rule, ala MLS, in 2025. I hope we don't get a homegrown rule like MLS' because that gets into the whole territory BS and would threaten our academies in LA and KC. I'd prefer that we be more aggressive about getting our talent signed before ACFC or KCC poach them. Stupid NCAA eligibility rules mean you can't sign them unless they plan to take the Alyssa Thompson route. Realistically, that caliber of player is few and far between. There should be a deferred "when you graduate, you're ours if you go pro" contract that NCAA could live with.
Thank you for taking time to explain this!! I hope you get some answers from someone and report them here, if so!!
Curious to see what they do. I assume one more move is coming with an international
Eyeing the Spirit's preseason roster and not seeing Sheva or Brooks. I think it's possible we see either here...Sheva was in Portland in the early offseason for about a week. Do we really need another attacking midfielder though....prob not? Brooks would prob be a better CB sub than Nally and she's a former Thorn...
She also knows how to count to two on both hands!
I'd take Brooks just for the experience, but she certainly doesn't help the lack of pace lmao. My prevailing non double-bird Amber Brooks memories of late are mostly of Soph getting predator eyes whenever she saw Brooks in the defense and absolutely cooking her (although so do most CBs not named Naomi Girma including both McKeown and Staab in last season's 4-2, so that's not necessarily her fault).
I had totally forgotten that she is a former Thorn (my memory is really bad). I don't think she's that great of a player, but as you say, she's better than Nally and would add a nasty physical presence to the back line. Does she play RB? I picked her in the Beer at PP Challenge to name the underwhelming player to replace Kuikka.
I don’t believe Amber Brooks at this stage of her career is that big of an upgrade to Meghan Nally,
Probably not, but her experience would be nice to have. If something should happen to Bruun, which is a distinct possibility, I shudder at the idea of extended Obaze-Hubly or Obaze-Nally. Also like that she is a bruiser. To be clear, I'm not advocating for signing Brooks, quite the opposite, actually.
Happy to see so much dealing. At least KK is doing things, which I was beginning to wonder about.
Asisat Oshoala, Nigerian from Barcelona rumored to be headed to NWSL. Great to see her Thorn gear.
This time next year, Kelli Hubly might be the only Thorn age 30 or over.
Let that sink in.
Love it. Not sure what is considered "prime" or "peak" age for female soccer players, but I know for male hockey players it is between 27-29 years old. I like the idea of having a young team. We can always bring in a veteran leader type if need be. Ideally that role would be in-house.
Hunch, like the "other football" it partly depends on position, e.g., the career average of an NFL running back is 2.5 years. QBs are 2X that and offensive linemen follow.
Guessing pure strikers have the shortest careers, keepers the longest and DBs 2nd longest. SWAGs all, and limited to the physical toll and positional demands. Mastering the technical intricacies of some positions is harder than for others.
I think it’s a balance. There are several teams in hockey that lack veteran leaders and still suck even though they have top prospects. Vets are important for culture