Well there's your Morgan Weaver replacement. Four year deal is quite the contract! She was very, very good last year tho, carried Wake to the championship match Sophia Smith-style. Would almost certainly have been a top 5 pick next year if the draft still existed.
I think my high-level take on this is that this only strengthens the "2025 as a true rebuild year" outlook. My best guess is that they really don't know if they have a chance at retaining Soph (but kinda don't think they do) and want to get a good look at some high-potential kids in the meantime to prepare themselves for whatever ends up happening without putting down huge money on a replacement in case she does come back. Meanwhile, they have a whole posse of B-level forwards (Turner, Spaanstra, Tordin, Hanks, and Linnehan) to fight for spots. I'd prefer if the arbiter of that competition wasn't Rob Gale, but que sera sera.
I'd also note that while this has not been a perfect offseason by any means, they HAVE shown themselves capable of attracting some high level kids which I certainly was not prepared for. Tordin obviously starts for the baby nats, Perry was a key piece of one of the best defenses in the country, and Hanks was a Mac Hermann finalist who finished 2nd in Top Drawer's final college player rankings.
Perry would have been fourth on my list of college CB’s behind Rose, Reale, and Courtnall. That said, she’s looked better in preseason than I was expecting.
Convincing two high level juniors to forego their senior year is an impressive achievement. I thought both Hanks and Tordin would have been top 5 caliber picks in next years draft if it was still around
"My best guess is that they really don't know if they have a chance at retaining Soph (but kinda don't think they do)..."
Come on. I've not heard a single explanation supporting this obsession that Soph Wilson is planning to leave the Thorns. Why? Only because the Thorns are now lacking the fire power that they actually been lacking for the past two years? Or because the coach sucks and she's going to get a better one because there are better coaches all over the place (even in Houston. There is zero evidence that with no Morgan Weaver available, and Sinclair retired, Soph Smith Wilson wants out of Portland as soon as possible.
The dead horse has been beaten, and it makes no sense being a bummer when all Soph has been doing is staying quiet so as to not reveal that she's pregnant until it was sure and safely firm biology.
I mean, yeah, to start, pick either of the two very reasonable explanations you just typed out. But mostly, it's because she's a free agent so she can essentially pick wherever she wants to go. Even if she doesn't "want out," she might "want in" to somewhere else. It's perfectly reasonable to fear that a club who has been far from stable for a few years would struggle to fend off *literally the entire world* for her services when they have no leverage whatsoever.
But even more importantly, it's not at all a "beating a dead horse" conversation. Whether the org has confidence that they can get her to re-sign is a massive part of team building. Her salary on its own is likely to be around 30% of their cap if she does come back next season. As I explicitly mention in my comment above, that has a dramatic impact on whether the team goes out and spends big money in the summer. As someone who tends to slant much more optimistic than most of this board, I totally agree that assuming the worst isn't something to dwell on just to be a Thorns doomer, but it absolutely is worth discussing in the larger context of how the Thorns plan to build their roster and the decisions Agoos will have to make.
Ultimately, we all should want Sophia Wilson back in a Thorns uniform and it is up to the front office to make the compelling case for her to stay. The city and fan base loves her. She’s been a great ambassador for the game and the Thorns. She’s very grounded especially when you add the consideration of how great of a player as she is. I’m still blown away by her team orientation. In many ways, she reminds me of Jayson Tatum. She doesn’t do anything off the field that makes you question the person she is, but she’s utterly spectacular on the pitch
My hope is that the young players develop to where Coffey and Wilson decide this is the best place for them to continue their career. Will follow them regardless, but I’d like to continue them to be on the team I root for in a selfish manner
I don’t believe any fan has insider knowledge on what Sophia is leaning towards. There are lots of arguments for Portland or Denver or ACFC
If Soph is going anywhere as a result of free agency, it will be to Europe (rather than another NWSL club) where she can get big bucks and Girma's contract will look ho-hum by comparative star power. Girma is "steady eddy" to Soph's "light up the night!"
Sophia has been adamant and vocal that she can develop in the US. She’s going to make a ton of money wherever she goes and I doubt a new mom with an NFL husband is going to a Europe. Plus I believe she has been arguably the most commercially popular (post Morgan and Rapinoe) women’s soccer player driven by her popularity in the US. The most commercially successful players of the past 5 years have played in the NWSL and now that salaries are more on parity, there are less reasons for her to move to Europe unless it’s a “dream”.
That said, none of us know. I also didn’t believe she would have a child at this stage of her career but family should always be prioritized over careers
It’s the kids part that gives me hope, continuing from last year’s trend of targeting young, high-potential developmental players the organization seems to really be aiming to prepare for 2026/2027/on. Obviously some high profile veteran signings would be splashy and help fans relax a bit, as well as making this year a little less daunting, but the potential in a lot of the new faces is exciting!
Now, do we have a coach and staff that can develop that potential into proven talent? My hope and optimism has limits, but one thing at a time.
Yeah, to me, this is the new FO trying to establish a healthy floor/depth to continue adding some bigger pieces over the next couple years. I'm guessing we do see some splashes in the summer. Building with young high-ceiling players as a foundation is smart, so long as that's not the only plan. I think the best teams have a mix of stars, vets, blue-collar workhorses, and high-ceiling youngsters.
Just positionally, we DO need another winger. At least one, tbh. We have a ton of central attackers but not a lot of wide forwards. To me, this is less a bellwether about any future Sophia decision, but more just an acknowledgement of needing to build behind (or in front of) Weaver because it's possible she doesn't come back looking the same. Lack of depth on the wings have been terribly apparent for years now, and again watching this last preseason game. Maybe he's playing Moultrie at LW because he didn't think he had a better option in his preferred formation and he just wants to get his "best" players on the field. I have no idea, but I'm guessing the writing has been on the wall that SInc, Izzy, or Liv were not a fix on the wing. And with Weaver now out long-term, it's something they have to face more immediately.
Look, she's still a rookie and only 20yo (and one that's going pro a year early), so my expectations are tempered. But she does look like she has the chops to be a high-level player in this league. It's more about how long that would take...I think it took Weaver 3 years to fully acclimate and be able to contribute. Believe me, I love me a pacy winger more than most. So, pretty exciting to get another high ceiling player to get to watch that story unfold. A 4 year contract signals a high level of trust from the FO. But, I'm not sure it really moves the needle much for this season. I do think there will be a culling of some of these F's at the end of the season. I think Spaanstra might be on the top of that list atp.
I don't think this on its own is an indicator of what Soph's plans are, but I do think this offseason to date has been a tacit acknowledgement -- especially if we don't see any big money attacking adds during the season-- that the FO is cognizant of the uncertainty around her contract situation, and in particular what it would mean if she *did* come back. I could be wrong and they might go spend a ton of money at some point over the next five months on another star-level attacker, but the reality of a salary cap league is that it's hard to spend 35-40% of your cap on two attackers and still build a good roster.
But yeah, they did need wingers and the four year commitment combined with Hanks' talent means they're clearly high on her long term potential. Plus, they gave her the #7 which doesn't *really* mean anything but also kinda does to me lol.
Yeah, I think it's all fair consideration. I don't necessarily think they need a STAR star if we still have Sophia...more like Ludmila, Portilho, Vine, Dufour, Purce, Kouassi, etc.... Maybe not a top dollar buy, but still a really good add to complement Soph + other winger. And I do think they could afford that, even if Soph did come back. With the roster we currently have, you don't think we could get like an Ajibade, even if Soph returns?
But yeah, of course they'll be wanting to gameplan for her inclusion or departure. Maybe they know she wants to stay and that's why they're holding out the cash. We just have no idea, but it does have pretty huge implications on roster building either way. I think it's still too early to try to read the tea leaves on Soph though, esp because other factors like the 3 sudden SEI's.
Also, yeah I read her taking the #7 the same way you do lol. But again, she is only 20! You think she's better than Linnehan on day 1, or where do you compare? I watched the college cup, but not much else otherwise.
I don't think it would necessarily preclude signing an Ajibade type, but it's possible that they might want to hold off on doing anything huge until they know what the deal is...but they also might know by summer. I do tend to think they'll make a sizable add at some point (especially if the season's going downhill fast), but I don't know where exactly that will be.
Hanks is definitely a higher caliber prospect than Linnehan and I'd expect her to start pretty quickly. They should really both start though.
Yeah, I think my only complaint at this point is they're not articulating that this is a re-build year after putting tickets up.
Obviously losing Weaver, Müller, and Soph makes it very hard for it *not* to be a rebuild year but this is also kind of what they've been doing since the middle of last year, and even dating back to last off-season.
Yeah, and it would be easier to do if they had a confident new coach who had the job security to just say "there are going to be some ups and downs this season, but we're excited to see our young players grow."
That said, they DO have a new GM who could easily express something along those lines without actually using the phrase "rebuild season."
Articulating that its a rebuilding year is for losers. Articulating that is to say to everyone, including your players, that there is rebuilding going on so its perfectly OK to relax, take it easy, and I (the coach and/or general manger) don't expect you to win or be an exciting team to watch. In other words, there is nothing gained by saying at a press conference, "This year we are rebuilding."
Unfortunately the alternative is "this year we're trying to win but we just suck major ass so we can't". That seems even less promising as a ticket-selling tool.
Seems like a hint of honesty - "there ARE going to be some tough times this season" - is okay. It's not raising the white flag, but it does acknowledge that losing quality of the Wilson &tc grade means we're behind the power curve...
"We've been unfortunate with absences, but we're sticking with our strategy. We've had to make our team younger because we've had to move on from the era of Becky, Kling and Sinc. There'll be some ups and downs but we're confident that this vision will bring long term success to Portland."
I was going to moan about "ANOTHER #9..?!?" but if she's a LW? That's fine. Young, but that's kind of a "rebuilding year" marker. I'm utterly unfamiliar with WF; did she play LW in a 4-3-3 there?
Yes, she's a two-footed LW/inside forward type. Far more polished and game-smart than Weaver was when she came out for my money, but a pretty similar player overall.
I still kind of shake my head at the way this club seems to stock the fishpond. Last season it was the teeming horde of keepers. This year? Forwards everywhere! This player, Linnehan, Turner, Spaanstra, Tordin (plus Castellanos if Ken runs her out as a 9/false 9...); the trees along 18th Avenue are positively dripping with forwards..!
So...nice pickup, Goose. But still...what the heck are you and Ken gonna do with all those OTHER forwards..?
Yeah, mentioned this in my original comment but they now have five different B/C level forwards + Moultrie all competing for two spots. If that doesn't scream "evaluation season," I'm not sure what does.
I don't because I don't think Moutrie is capable of playing that position at a the requisite level barring a formation change because of her defensive shortcomings. I do think there will be games where she plays over Fleming, however.
Don’t know salaries, of course, but seems like while Turner, Linnehan and Spaanstra might be up for evaluation among the forwards, and have their spots be dependent on what happens with Wilson and Weaver going forward, but the 4-year contract for Hanks seems like a bigger investment, and that she and the team expect her to be in the starting 11 eventually, regardless.
My problem is that when they stockpiled keepers they didn't appear to actually try and evaluate them...so I have a hard time convincing myself that this is what Ken's going to do up front. I get it - it's totally a "me" thing; it's just me being skittish about Gale, and hopefully you're nailing it and that's why the big woodpile at forward now.
Well it's harder to evaluate goalkeepers than forwards for a number of reasons, but the main one is that there's only one spot on the field at a time. It's hard to give multiple GKs time to show out.
Now, that doesn't mean that I trust Gale to get the attacker evaluation right in either the short or long term, but I do think that's what's happening.
Looks like there are three MAC Hermann Trophy finalists, so she was considered one of the top three players in the country last year. That's a good get!
Our Soph had what, a whopping 1.5 seasons interrupted by the ghoulish injury and also playing in the giant shadow thrown by Cat Macario. College Cup MVP to go with the cup itself, was the ultimate launchpad for her.
Sophia was awesome at Stanford in her own right, but Smith, Ashley Sanchez, and Alessia Russo were overshadowed by Macario, Castellanos, and Fleming.
I remember messaging Henderson when he had Sophia as 11th in his predraft ratings and telling him he needed to look again. Never did that to him, but did then. At the time, he was doing a podcast with the coach that Kelli Hubly had a problem with (Jon Lipsitz), but he made sure Henderson knew what caliber prospect Smith was on the old WOSO independent podcast and defended the Weaver pick as well.
Her play against UCLA that year was enough for me to be jumping up and down when we acquired her.
Weaver was my favorite college player that year and was happy when we bought her rights for allocation money and seconds, but Smith was an obvious talent and the NWSL route has positioned her as a star because she developed as a star instead of a secondary piece
Here's the highlight reel- Does a pretty good job at showing what she's about. Scored a lot of goals arriving late at the back post to finish square balls across. One of the most two-footed college attackers I can remember watching, which is always a plus.
That was my thought, too. Her teammate also vaguely reminded me of Liv here and there, and I could almost hear Rob saying "See, that's why Liv is our winger."
Rob's giving me Portland Thorns Stress Disorder and the regular season hasn't even started. But I'll be interested in watching the young talent develop, even if I end up biting half my tongue off.
So how long is Gale's leash? Three blowout losses? One win in six? All of 2025 regardless? Or maybe the real global search is already underway. I take door #4, only based on dreams.
For those who might forget. Tomorrow we have a listed 9:45 AM start time on ABC/ESPN+. Get up early for this game.
The block of time for the game goes from 9:30 to Noon. Either their is padding for potentially a lot of added time or this will actually start closer to 10 AM. Does seem there will be some pre-game coverage. Game should be nation wide but as always check your local ABC affiliate, ESPN+/NWSL+ for computers that are or appear to be outside the USA might be your only choice.
Tbf I think she very well may have been a back-up striker caliber NWSL player if she had, well, gotten to play any back-up striker. There's an argument that the Norris/Gale combo quite literally ruined her NWSL career, at least in the short term.
That’s fair. She is good enough to be on a roster. I’m generally more OK with position versatility, but she virtually had none.
If teams didn’t leverage position versatility, we would have never tried Coffey at the 6 and Muller/Reyes would still be midfielders
That said, managers need to be able to stop when it’s not working and that is one of my bigger concerns about Gale. He doesn’t seem to adjust to information.
Coffey sure, Reyes was drafted at the position she played in college (even if she did play some midfield at times) and Muller was almost exclusively a FB in Germany as well. I've always been prettty adamant that we'll never see Reyes in midfield in the pros.
Regardless, the key point is that you have to know what type of player you're getting when you sign them, and they clearly didn't with Izzy given the exact same limitations in college popped up in the pros. She wasn't a versatile player and that's why the upside of that draft pick was always limited. Complete top to bottom failure of scouting and coaching.
Versatility is great but it has to stem from ability and attributes. Sam's passing range made her a fit for playing number 6. D'Aquila didn't have a single attribute for playing wide.
I'm not sure which post to comment on because there's been so many the last few days (yay!), so I'll just post this in a couple places. Haven't been able to read it yet myself, but here's an ASA (American Soccer Analysis) season preview on the Thorns:
That post is pretty depressing, but as they said, a spreadsheet isn't needed to prove the Thorns on paper look pretty dire. But I am typically an optimist and I think this team could be pretty good. There is some talent and with a great coach they could be the Cinderella team this year. If they wind up in the bottom two, it will surprise nobody, on the other hand if they gel I can see them in the top six. I admit I wear rose colored glasses when it comes to the Thorns.
2nd least PPG in team history is deeply depressing and checks out as to how the entire '24 season felt. Remove the 4 desperation goals in KC and the year looks even worse.
I dont see being young so dire. yes Wilson was big loss. but looking at the spirit last year two of their most important players were first years in Bethune and Hershfelt. Will we see youngers step up and guide this team. Obaze looked great Reyes is in form, Coffey is Coffey, Hina...Turner, Castellanos, Flemingare all top level players in their own right. Just need the other pieces to be guided and to gel together.
I would not be to worried because good coaching can coach around and support those players. Always been a big the team should be greater than the parts. However, once again here we are saying if the coaching is up to par, knowing full well this is unlikely.
I've been reading up and I also just watched the highlight package on YouTube. Hanks wore #9 and worked through the middle as a somewhat withdrawn striker. She won the Hawaii state championship in the 200 as a senior in high school. She's covers ground. I agree that this is a terrific signing for a rebuilding team and an encouraging one for this somewhat jaded fan.
I didn't write a sentence correctly. I watched the highlights for the championship game against North Carolina. I'd be looking at Olivia Thomas for NC who banged in the only goal of the game off a direct free kick. She stood out in the highlights.
That was a pro-level free kick goal. Thomas really developed a lot this season and was a real beast in the college cup. Definitely worth keeping an eye on her.
So, either she got a green card or the Thorns editing dept continues to struggle. Would be nice if Phuoc could ask about this. Would be the difference between us having one available or not outside of Marie's injury.
That is interesting. I thought she was listed as INTL in a press release when we first signed her...Could see it being another mistake from this FO because they have been terrible with details, but having 2 more int'l spots would be nice. Although, one of those will be taken again when Marie comes off SEI. Still, I think it gives them some room for flexibility because I think a few of our INTL's have contracts up after this season. They could also just buy one from Louisville, since that seems to be en vogue lol.
As far as the signings go...I assume it'll be Kelley and/or Kemp but I'm keeping expectations low because it's nice to be surprised! Geyse availability still floating around out there...though I can't see us getting another winger/forward atp. Maybe we'll send a few on loan to the USL. Defense still needs help.
Speaking of being terrible with details, the FO's announcement of the current roster (https://www.thorns.com/news/portland-thorns-fc-announce-roster-ahead-of-2025-season) misspells Olivia Wade-Katoa's name. I sure hope the team's ability at player evaluation is way better than their ability at putting out a functional, accurate website.
At last something to get excited about on the issue of skill and talent on the front line.
Now maybe Rob Gale can stop imagining Moultrie as his Ashley Sanchez, a midfielder with the ability to make things happen with quickness, a deft touch on the ball, and able to score goals in unlikely situations.
Well there's your Morgan Weaver replacement. Four year deal is quite the contract! She was very, very good last year tho, carried Wake to the championship match Sophia Smith-style. Would almost certainly have been a top 5 pick next year if the draft still existed.
I think my high-level take on this is that this only strengthens the "2025 as a true rebuild year" outlook. My best guess is that they really don't know if they have a chance at retaining Soph (but kinda don't think they do) and want to get a good look at some high-potential kids in the meantime to prepare themselves for whatever ends up happening without putting down huge money on a replacement in case she does come back. Meanwhile, they have a whole posse of B-level forwards (Turner, Spaanstra, Tordin, Hanks, and Linnehan) to fight for spots. I'd prefer if the arbiter of that competition wasn't Rob Gale, but que sera sera.
I'd also note that while this has not been a perfect offseason by any means, they HAVE shown themselves capable of attracting some high level kids which I certainly was not prepared for. Tordin obviously starts for the baby nats, Perry was a key piece of one of the best defenses in the country, and Hanks was a Mac Hermann finalist who finished 2nd in Top Drawer's final college player rankings.
Perry would have been fourth on my list of college CB’s behind Rose, Reale, and Courtnall. That said, she’s looked better in preseason than I was expecting.
Convincing two high level juniors to forego their senior year is an impressive achievement. I thought both Hanks and Tordin would have been top 5 caliber picks in next years draft if it was still around
Hanks is a big get for Portland
"My best guess is that they really don't know if they have a chance at retaining Soph (but kinda don't think they do)..."
Come on. I've not heard a single explanation supporting this obsession that Soph Wilson is planning to leave the Thorns. Why? Only because the Thorns are now lacking the fire power that they actually been lacking for the past two years? Or because the coach sucks and she's going to get a better one because there are better coaches all over the place (even in Houston. There is zero evidence that with no Morgan Weaver available, and Sinclair retired, Soph Smith Wilson wants out of Portland as soon as possible.
The dead horse has been beaten, and it makes no sense being a bummer when all Soph has been doing is staying quiet so as to not reveal that she's pregnant until it was sure and safely firm biology.
I mean, yeah, to start, pick either of the two very reasonable explanations you just typed out. But mostly, it's because she's a free agent so she can essentially pick wherever she wants to go. Even if she doesn't "want out," she might "want in" to somewhere else. It's perfectly reasonable to fear that a club who has been far from stable for a few years would struggle to fend off *literally the entire world* for her services when they have no leverage whatsoever.
But even more importantly, it's not at all a "beating a dead horse" conversation. Whether the org has confidence that they can get her to re-sign is a massive part of team building. Her salary on its own is likely to be around 30% of their cap if she does come back next season. As I explicitly mention in my comment above, that has a dramatic impact on whether the team goes out and spends big money in the summer. As someone who tends to slant much more optimistic than most of this board, I totally agree that assuming the worst isn't something to dwell on just to be a Thorns doomer, but it absolutely is worth discussing in the larger context of how the Thorns plan to build their roster and the decisions Agoos will have to make.
Ultimately, we all should want Sophia Wilson back in a Thorns uniform and it is up to the front office to make the compelling case for her to stay. The city and fan base loves her. She’s been a great ambassador for the game and the Thorns. She’s very grounded especially when you add the consideration of how great of a player as she is. I’m still blown away by her team orientation. In many ways, she reminds me of Jayson Tatum. She doesn’t do anything off the field that makes you question the person she is, but she’s utterly spectacular on the pitch
My hope is that the young players develop to where Coffey and Wilson decide this is the best place for them to continue their career. Will follow them regardless, but I’d like to continue them to be on the team I root for in a selfish manner
I don’t believe any fan has insider knowledge on what Sophia is leaning towards. There are lots of arguments for Portland or Denver or ACFC
If Soph is going anywhere as a result of free agency, it will be to Europe (rather than another NWSL club) where she can get big bucks and Girma's contract will look ho-hum by comparative star power. Girma is "steady eddy" to Soph's "light up the night!"
Sophia has been adamant and vocal that she can develop in the US. She’s going to make a ton of money wherever she goes and I doubt a new mom with an NFL husband is going to a Europe. Plus I believe she has been arguably the most commercially popular (post Morgan and Rapinoe) women’s soccer player driven by her popularity in the US. The most commercially successful players of the past 5 years have played in the NWSL and now that salaries are more on parity, there are less reasons for her to move to Europe unless it’s a “dream”.
That said, none of us know. I also didn’t believe she would have a child at this stage of her career but family should always be prioritized over careers
I thought it was interesting that she only signed thru 2025. Obviously she wanted her options open, only fueling our speculation
It’s the kids part that gives me hope, continuing from last year’s trend of targeting young, high-potential developmental players the organization seems to really be aiming to prepare for 2026/2027/on. Obviously some high profile veteran signings would be splashy and help fans relax a bit, as well as making this year a little less daunting, but the potential in a lot of the new faces is exciting!
Now, do we have a coach and staff that can develop that potential into proven talent? My hope and optimism has limits, but one thing at a time.
Yeah, to me, this is the new FO trying to establish a healthy floor/depth to continue adding some bigger pieces over the next couple years. I'm guessing we do see some splashes in the summer. Building with young high-ceiling players as a foundation is smart, so long as that's not the only plan. I think the best teams have a mix of stars, vets, blue-collar workhorses, and high-ceiling youngsters.
Just positionally, we DO need another winger. At least one, tbh. We have a ton of central attackers but not a lot of wide forwards. To me, this is less a bellwether about any future Sophia decision, but more just an acknowledgement of needing to build behind (or in front of) Weaver because it's possible she doesn't come back looking the same. Lack of depth on the wings have been terribly apparent for years now, and again watching this last preseason game. Maybe he's playing Moultrie at LW because he didn't think he had a better option in his preferred formation and he just wants to get his "best" players on the field. I have no idea, but I'm guessing the writing has been on the wall that SInc, Izzy, or Liv were not a fix on the wing. And with Weaver now out long-term, it's something they have to face more immediately.
Look, she's still a rookie and only 20yo (and one that's going pro a year early), so my expectations are tempered. But she does look like she has the chops to be a high-level player in this league. It's more about how long that would take...I think it took Weaver 3 years to fully acclimate and be able to contribute. Believe me, I love me a pacy winger more than most. So, pretty exciting to get another high ceiling player to get to watch that story unfold. A 4 year contract signals a high level of trust from the FO. But, I'm not sure it really moves the needle much for this season. I do think there will be a culling of some of these F's at the end of the season. I think Spaanstra might be on the top of that list atp.
I don't think this on its own is an indicator of what Soph's plans are, but I do think this offseason to date has been a tacit acknowledgement -- especially if we don't see any big money attacking adds during the season-- that the FO is cognizant of the uncertainty around her contract situation, and in particular what it would mean if she *did* come back. I could be wrong and they might go spend a ton of money at some point over the next five months on another star-level attacker, but the reality of a salary cap league is that it's hard to spend 35-40% of your cap on two attackers and still build a good roster.
But yeah, they did need wingers and the four year commitment combined with Hanks' talent means they're clearly high on her long term potential. Plus, they gave her the #7 which doesn't *really* mean anything but also kinda does to me lol.
Yeah, I think it's all fair consideration. I don't necessarily think they need a STAR star if we still have Sophia...more like Ludmila, Portilho, Vine, Dufour, Purce, Kouassi, etc.... Maybe not a top dollar buy, but still a really good add to complement Soph + other winger. And I do think they could afford that, even if Soph did come back. With the roster we currently have, you don't think we could get like an Ajibade, even if Soph returns?
But yeah, of course they'll be wanting to gameplan for her inclusion or departure. Maybe they know she wants to stay and that's why they're holding out the cash. We just have no idea, but it does have pretty huge implications on roster building either way. I think it's still too early to try to read the tea leaves on Soph though, esp because other factors like the 3 sudden SEI's.
Also, yeah I read her taking the #7 the same way you do lol. But again, she is only 20! You think she's better than Linnehan on day 1, or where do you compare? I watched the college cup, but not much else otherwise.
I don't think it would necessarily preclude signing an Ajibade type, but it's possible that they might want to hold off on doing anything huge until they know what the deal is...but they also might know by summer. I do tend to think they'll make a sizable add at some point (especially if the season's going downhill fast), but I don't know where exactly that will be.
Hanks is definitely a higher caliber prospect than Linnehan and I'd expect her to start pretty quickly. They should really both start though.
Thanks for the background info. Agree this signing makes sense for a rebuild. Let the kids dook it out for the starting spots!
Yeah, I think my only complaint at this point is they're not articulating that this is a re-build year after putting tickets up.
Obviously losing Weaver, Müller, and Soph makes it very hard for it *not* to be a rebuild year but this is also kind of what they've been doing since the middle of last year, and even dating back to last off-season.
Yeah, and it would be easier to do if they had a confident new coach who had the job security to just say "there are going to be some ups and downs this season, but we're excited to see our young players grow."
That said, they DO have a new GM who could easily express something along those lines without actually using the phrase "rebuild season."
Yes, essentially the GM should be saying that.
"This is a young team that is going to grow this season" is a load of nothingness but it also actually helps set expectations.
Can you expand on that? Who do you want to articulate that this is a rebuilding year and what does that gain for the team, fans, whoever?
Articulating that its a rebuilding year is for losers. Articulating that is to say to everyone, including your players, that there is rebuilding going on so its perfectly OK to relax, take it easy, and I (the coach and/or general manger) don't expect you to win or be an exciting team to watch. In other words, there is nothing gained by saying at a press conference, "This year we are rebuilding."
Unfortunately the alternative is "this year we're trying to win but we just suck major ass so we can't". That seems even less promising as a ticket-selling tool.
Seems like a hint of honesty - "there ARE going to be some tough times this season" - is okay. It's not raising the white flag, but it does acknowledge that losing quality of the Wilson &tc grade means we're behind the power curve...
"We've been unfortunate with absences, but we're sticking with our strategy. We've had to make our team younger because we've had to move on from the era of Becky, Kling and Sinc. There'll be some ups and downs but we're confident that this vision will bring long term success to Portland."
no it isn't, come on now
I was going to moan about "ANOTHER #9..?!?" but if she's a LW? That's fine. Young, but that's kind of a "rebuilding year" marker. I'm utterly unfamiliar with WF; did she play LW in a 4-3-3 there?
Yes, she's a two-footed LW/inside forward type. Far more polished and game-smart than Weaver was when she came out for my money, but a pretty similar player overall.
Weaver was a freight train with size and speed who outworked everyone in college.
Hanks is a more polished speed merchant with a pretty deft touch.
She’s probably in the same caliber of prospect and I’m happy she’s coming to Portland
Okay, then!
I still kind of shake my head at the way this club seems to stock the fishpond. Last season it was the teeming horde of keepers. This year? Forwards everywhere! This player, Linnehan, Turner, Spaanstra, Tordin (plus Castellanos if Ken runs her out as a 9/false 9...); the trees along 18th Avenue are positively dripping with forwards..!
So...nice pickup, Goose. But still...what the heck are you and Ken gonna do with all those OTHER forwards..?
Yeah, mentioned this in my original comment but they now have five different B/C level forwards + Moultrie all competing for two spots. If that doesn't scream "evaluation season," I'm not sure what does.
at the very least, we should stop playing some of them out of position
I hope Moultrie is allowed to challenge Fleming, but we will see what happens.
I don’t see us having an embarrassment of riches at forward. I’m hoping two young players emerge at a minimum.
I don't because I don't think Moutrie is capable of playing that position at a the requisite level barring a formation change because of her defensive shortcomings. I do think there will be games where she plays over Fleming, however.
Don’t know salaries, of course, but seems like while Turner, Linnehan and Spaanstra might be up for evaluation among the forwards, and have their spots be dependent on what happens with Wilson and Weaver going forward, but the 4-year contract for Hanks seems like a bigger investment, and that she and the team expect her to be in the starting 11 eventually, regardless.
My problem is that when they stockpiled keepers they didn't appear to actually try and evaluate them...so I have a hard time convincing myself that this is what Ken's going to do up front. I get it - it's totally a "me" thing; it's just me being skittish about Gale, and hopefully you're nailing it and that's why the big woodpile at forward now.
Well it's harder to evaluate goalkeepers than forwards for a number of reasons, but the main one is that there's only one spot on the field at a time. It's hard to give multiple GKs time to show out.
Now, that doesn't mean that I trust Gale to get the attacker evaluation right in either the short or long term, but I do think that's what's happening.
She played a lot through the middle on the highlights I watched. However, I'd say she plays more like a #8 box-to-box midfielder. She's fast.
If you want to see how she plays, last year's NCAA College Cup final might not be a bad place to start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfqI4S2w4Fo
Theater minor? Thorns Tik tok game about to go into overdrive
Or goal cellys.
Nice! Like her intro video. Seems like a good person, and I'm always happy to hear when someone's excited to come to Portland (the city.)
We're #26!
Portland is the 26th largest metro area, edged out of the Top 25 by... Sacramento.
Damn you, SactoRick!
Transplants from SF-SJ, donchano.
Plus, we're now an MLB juggernaut, or had you heard?
Looks like there are three MAC Hermann Trophy finalists, so she was considered one of the top three players in the country last year. That's a good get!
I have Agoos bumps people.
Mother Agoos.
Very true. If Wake wins over UNC, does she get the nod over Kate Fassee? (Granted, Fassee had a monster tournament for NC.)
Probably not. Fasse was the best scorer by a wide margin and was going to win the award regardless.
What I do want to warn people about. Sophia Wilson wasn’t the best college player, but she was an incredible player in her own right.
Our Soph had what, a whopping 1.5 seasons interrupted by the ghoulish injury and also playing in the giant shadow thrown by Cat Macario. College Cup MVP to go with the cup itself, was the ultimate launchpad for her.
Sophia was awesome at Stanford in her own right, but Smith, Ashley Sanchez, and Alessia Russo were overshadowed by Macario, Castellanos, and Fleming.
I remember messaging Henderson when he had Sophia as 11th in his predraft ratings and telling him he needed to look again. Never did that to him, but did then. At the time, he was doing a podcast with the coach that Kelli Hubly had a problem with (Jon Lipsitz), but he made sure Henderson knew what caliber prospect Smith was on the old WOSO independent podcast and defended the Weaver pick as well.
Her play against UCLA that year was enough for me to be jumping up and down when we acquired her.
Weaver was my favorite college player that year and was happy when we bought her rights for allocation money and seconds, but Smith was an obvious talent and the NWSL route has positioned her as a star because she developed as a star instead of a secondary piece
https://x.com/theACCDN/status/1874923626392080698
Here's the highlight reel- Does a pretty good job at showing what she's about. Scored a lot of goals arriving late at the back post to finish square balls across. One of the most two-footed college attackers I can remember watching, which is always a plus.
Nice! Her teammate who keeps feeding her from the right-side would be a nice “1-2 punch” addition too !!
That was my thought, too. Her teammate also vaguely reminded me of Liv here and there, and I could almost hear Rob saying "See, that's why Liv is our winger."
Rob's giving me Portland Thorns Stress Disorder and the regular season hasn't even started. But I'll be interested in watching the young talent develop, even if I end up biting half my tongue off.
Another meaning for PTSD—so true!
Emily Murphy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BP3iHYmsiA
edit: Looks like she signed with Newcastle United.
Sí Sí !!!
Wouldn't mind having a new Emily on the roster.
How many Emilys for a new wall? (And how many Picketts for a fence?)
Seems to have a quick trigger, too. No hesitation.
Parsing 2024, she really blossomed in both goals and assists over her prior two. Many against good-to-great teams:
Goals: Rutgers, Virginia, Syracuse, Florida State, Morehead State, SMU, USC.
Assists: Temple, UNC Asheville, Stanford, Syracuse, Pitt, Morehead State, Colorado, USC, Stanford again.
Pinged Runner Girl for any intel. Wake's not THAT big and she might know her.
She did attend several matches, including the tournament, and was enthusiastic about the team's quality as a whole.
Gutted when they lost the final. Sooooo close.
Get updates on Chris Paul and Tim Duncan while you're at it.
Toured their basketball palace and there are by gawd lifesize statues of both. Tim Duncan evidently a Very Large Human.
Henderson's blurb and some stats on Caiya Hanks: https://bsky.app/profile/chris-awk.bsky.social/post/3lk7dnrokit2b
Dope! Confirms Gale's top draft pick claim.
Alright good signing. Now Rob let’s see you change your coaching or goodbye. Give players the best chance to develop
So how long is Gale's leash? Three blowout losses? One win in six? All of 2025 regardless? Or maybe the real global search is already underway. I take door #4, only based on dreams.
For those who might forget. Tomorrow we have a listed 9:45 AM start time on ABC/ESPN+. Get up early for this game.
The block of time for the game goes from 9:30 to Noon. Either their is padding for potentially a lot of added time or this will actually start closer to 10 AM. Does seem there will be some pre-game coverage. Game should be nation wide but as always check your local ABC affiliate, ESPN+/NWSL+ for computers that are or appear to be outside the USA might be your only choice.
Well, $h!t... D'Aquila has 2 goals in 2 matches in the Svenska Cupen.
She scored for the Thorns too, just not against good teams. So, either something has changed or nothing has changed.
Malmo are also using her in lots of their advertising. She looks pretty happy. Hope it works out for her.
Hell, find me a reason to move to Sweden (or Norway, really any Nordic country) these days and I'd be utterly thrilled too
Oh, you've got reason. Question is: do you have opportunity?
She should do well against that level. She showed that she wasn’t an NWSL caliber player, but could dominate against lesser competition
Tbf I think she very well may have been a back-up striker caliber NWSL player if she had, well, gotten to play any back-up striker. There's an argument that the Norris/Gale combo quite literally ruined her NWSL career, at least in the short term.
That’s fair. She is good enough to be on a roster. I’m generally more OK with position versatility, but she virtually had none.
If teams didn’t leverage position versatility, we would have never tried Coffey at the 6 and Muller/Reyes would still be midfielders
That said, managers need to be able to stop when it’s not working and that is one of my bigger concerns about Gale. He doesn’t seem to adjust to information.
Coffey sure, Reyes was drafted at the position she played in college (even if she did play some midfield at times) and Muller was almost exclusively a FB in Germany as well. I've always been prettty adamant that we'll never see Reyes in midfield in the pros.
Regardless, the key point is that you have to know what type of player you're getting when you sign them, and they clearly didn't with Izzy given the exact same limitations in college popped up in the pros. She wasn't a versatile player and that's why the upside of that draft pick was always limited. Complete top to bottom failure of scouting and coaching.
Versatility is great but it has to stem from ability and attributes. Sam's passing range made her a fit for playing number 6. D'Aquila didn't have a single attribute for playing wide.
I'm not sure which post to comment on because there's been so many the last few days (yay!), so I'll just post this in a couple places. Haven't been able to read it yet myself, but here's an ASA (American Soccer Analysis) season preview on the Thorns:
https://www.americansocceranalysis.com/home/2025/3/11/2025-nwsl-previews-portland-thorns-and-north-carolina-courage
That post is pretty depressing, but as they said, a spreadsheet isn't needed to prove the Thorns on paper look pretty dire. But I am typically an optimist and I think this team could be pretty good. There is some talent and with a great coach they could be the Cinderella team this year. If they wind up in the bottom two, it will surprise nobody, on the other hand if they gel I can see them in the top six. I admit I wear rose colored glasses when it comes to the Thorns.
2nd least PPG in team history is deeply depressing and checks out as to how the entire '24 season felt. Remove the 4 desperation goals in KC and the year looks even worse.
I dont see being young so dire. yes Wilson was big loss. but looking at the spirit last year two of their most important players were first years in Bethune and Hershfelt. Will we see youngers step up and guide this team. Obaze looked great Reyes is in form, Coffey is Coffey, Hina...Turner, Castellanos, Flemingare all top level players in their own right. Just need the other pieces to be guided and to gel together.
The young players are going to drive success (and failure). Their midfield should be good enough to drive some level of competence.
There are a few holes that I’m not crazy about
I would not be to worried because good coaching can coach around and support those players. Always been a big the team should be greater than the parts. However, once again here we are saying if the coaching is up to par, knowing full well this is unlikely.
I've been reading up and I also just watched the highlight package on YouTube. Hanks wore #9 and worked through the middle as a somewhat withdrawn striker. She won the Hawaii state championship in the 200 as a senior in high school. She's covers ground. I agree that this is a terrific signing for a rebuilding team and an encouraging one for this somewhat jaded fan.
I didn't write a sentence correctly. I watched the highlights for the championship game against North Carolina. I'd be looking at Olivia Thomas for NC who banged in the only goal of the game off a direct free kick. She stood out in the highlights.
That was a pro-level free kick goal. Thomas really developed a lot this season and was a real beast in the college cup. Definitely worth keeping an eye on her.
https://bsky.app/profile/tayvincent6.bsky.social/post/3lk7bzb4a5c23
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, could just be NRIs, but also could be something else!
(Also, Castellanos is not shown as an international anywhere: Spotrac, the Thorns official press release, or Vincent's screenshots)
Re: what I was saying in my other comment-
First press release about her signing (Jan 24th), she's not listed with INTL next to her name: https://www.thorns.com/news/portland-thorns-acquire-venezuelan-forward-deyna-castellanos
Press release immediately after about their Coachella roster (Jan 27th), she IS listed with an INTL next to her name: https://www.thorns.com/news/thorns-announce-2025-nwsl-preseason-roster
So, either she got a green card or the Thorns editing dept continues to struggle. Would be nice if Phuoc could ask about this. Would be the difference between us having one available or not outside of Marie's injury.
Just more press release lols:
She isn't even listed at all in the press release about signing Carissa Boeckmann: https://www.thorns.com/news/thorns-sign-midfielder-carissa-boeckmann
And in the Morgan Messner press release, Arnold is the only player listed as an INTL:
https://www.thorns.com/news/portland-thorns-sign-goalkeeper-morgan-messner
Deyna has a green card!
That is interesting. I thought she was listed as INTL in a press release when we first signed her...Could see it being another mistake from this FO because they have been terrible with details, but having 2 more int'l spots would be nice. Although, one of those will be taken again when Marie comes off SEI. Still, I think it gives them some room for flexibility because I think a few of our INTL's have contracts up after this season. They could also just buy one from Louisville, since that seems to be en vogue lol.
As far as the signings go...I assume it'll be Kelley and/or Kemp but I'm keeping expectations low because it's nice to be surprised! Geyse availability still floating around out there...though I can't see us getting another winger/forward atp. Maybe we'll send a few on loan to the USL. Defense still needs help.
Yeah I can confirm this. Will let you know when I hear back.
Thanks Phuoc, that would be great! It's been wishy washy in many of their press releases.
I am posting an update shortly so everyone can see it on socials.
Speaking of being terrible with details, the FO's announcement of the current roster (https://www.thorns.com/news/portland-thorns-fc-announce-roster-ahead-of-2025-season) misspells Olivia Wade-Katoa's name. I sure hope the team's ability at player evaluation is way better than their ability at putting out a functional, accurate website.
Castellanos was listed as an international in the initial press release when she was signed, but she isn't on the one they released today. https://www.thorns.com/news/portland-thorns-fc-announce-roster-ahead-of-2025-season
Also Müller tore her ACL so she won't be coming off the SEI list this year and they don't realllly need to plan ahead for next season just yet.
Green card?
Sorry, I'm only familiar with the Yellow Card and the Red Card.
shes noted as a forward on the screen shot ...
2 more INTLs available.
At last something to get excited about on the issue of skill and talent on the front line.
Now maybe Rob Gale can stop imagining Moultrie as his Ashley Sanchez, a midfielder with the ability to make things happen with quickness, a deft touch on the ball, and able to score goals in unlikely situations.