The Stumptown Footy crew hop on the mics and all give a scathing review on the Portland Thorns' performance in the semifinals of the Concacaf W Champions Cup in Mexico.
So I'm curious what people's preferred starting 11 is right now. And I'm willing to allow for changed formations. Here is mine, based on a 4-3-3:
Bixby in Goal - She is healthy, and other than the one brain fart has been playing well:
Perry and Hiatt at CB - Its a decent pairing.
Reyes and Obaze at wingback - Obaze is here because while I like her at CB, she is versatile enough to play wide. It makes the formation more of a 3 back with Reyes floating forward.
Coffey and Sugita at CDM - The double pivot shouldn't be necessary, but both are etched in stone starters.
Moultre at CAM - Her best position, and she really needs to get the time there.
Hanks and Alidou as the wingers - Hanks is a potential superstar at wing, and I think Alidou provides skill and speed out there.
Turner at the striker - While I want to put Tordin there, I would also like to see Turner get a run at the striker position. I see this as a timeshare position though, until one of them grabs the position by the throat and doesn't let it go.
Fleming, Linnehan, Tordin and Mackenzie would be the primary subs off the bench. Just my ideas on the lineup.
Your personnel would be my starting XI also, for the most part. I am willing to give Turner a shot in the 9 over the course of several games- so she can get comfortable, but also so she can be seen across varying defensive structures. BUT, I honestly do see more technical skill/upside out of Tordin so far and would probably prefer to give her the run out first. But, I'm ok with swapping, so long as each gets a chunk of time. Swapping every other game isn't good for either player...neither can really establish any consistency and build off of performances.
Also, like, just reward players for playing well!! Tordin has been pretty hot with very limited minutes. It should be rewarded. Imo, this is how young players take bigger steps forward.
I agree with Liv at CAM, but I'd also be fine with Mimi there (but that would necessitate Linnehan starting at RW, and she's not a clear starter imo.) But having Liv there would push Mimi to play a more inverted RW, which is how I'd start also (so she'd more or less be playing as a second CAM next to Liv.) I really liked Mimi centrally with Tordin in the 9, though...they played off each other really well. I'm not sure if I'd love Liv under Tordin, because I feel like they would operate in the same areas. Every time we've seen Tordin pop off, it's been with Liv on the bench. It may be the case that if Tordin is in the 9, we have Mimi underneath, and if we have Turner in the 9, we have Liv underneath. Imo, we need to get rid of Deyna and Spaanstra and get a proper starting RW. Still some roster reworking that needs to be done for the M/F lines, esp considering Smith/Weaver for next season.
Obaze isn't a FB but I did like her there better than Torpey or McKenzie....but I don't think that's a solution that's gonna stick. For now, it's what I'd do.
If Arnold is healthy though, I'd start her. She's been really good this season so far.
Nice info about Mimi/Tordin, I hadn’t really thought about that. I also agree that Linnehan isn’t really ready to be a starter, so that is why I have Alidou at RW. Obaze is my preferred starter at CB, but the weakness at RB is pretty glaring right now it forces a position change for her.
The key thing is to let the forwards be forwards, to open up some space for the midfield to operate. Hanks does it naturally, and creates going to the endline. I would love to see something coming from the right side as well.
Great post. It does seem like both Tordin and Moultrie are top-of-the-box hold-up type players. Both are physical bullies. Neither seems inclined to make runs, diagonal or otherwise. Tordin seems better at headers, but that is expected based on their positions.
I keep having to remind myself that Alidou is 30ish years old. I like her as a player, but I'm playing Moultrie over her at the 10 and I'd probably be inclined to play Linnehan over her at RW to give her a legitimate look to see if she has starter quality in her. Some might say we have already, but I would still be starting her more to get a bigger sample size. Alidou is a great backup option at both the 10 and RW, though.
That's my preferred 11 as well except I'd have Arnold comfortably over Bixby if both are fit given Arnold has been, at worst, a top 3 NWSL keeper since joining last season. Totally fine with an open striker competition even if I think Tordin is probably already the best player (def the best finisher) of the three. Key is that Alidou should be playing over Castellanos, which, of course, means it won't happen :)
From what I see, Tordin is the best striker/9 on the team and, I think, by a pretty good margin. She can play back to the goal, she can bring the ball down into a position to shoot and quickly get her shot off, and she can dish well weighted balls to her teammates. In other words, she is a real soccer player. Turner can do some things, but I think she is nowhere as complete a player as Tordin. And it is not a good position for Deyna.
On acquisitions during the summer window, it seems to me the Club has committed itself to going young and building over time. Plus, I don't know how much money they have to spend with the salary cap. So I do not seem them bringing in an experienced star. I think they for sure need a right back -- oh how I wish Marie Muller were playing -- so I think that is what they go for, but I think if they do she will be young.
Regarding the beginnings of games, I thought against Tigres they tried to start playing hard and in fact did, but it seems not free flowing to me. Then, Tigres got the goal and the team seemed a bit psyched out. I wonder if they should sit back early and take some time to get free flowing.
I remember an earlier session you all did where you were hoping the Thorns would finish in the middle group in the NWSL but were worried they would be in the bottom group. So far, they have outperformed those expectations. There's lots of potential there, with the question being how soon they can realize it. I think at this point of the season they have progressed faster than I expected.
Agree that Tordin may well have "it" in that undefinable greater-than-the-sum-of-the parts special athlete sense. But she has to routinely start under Rob's purported system to find out if that's the case. What are the odds?
The discussion for me around Gale is increasingly becoming much more about his personnel choices than his tactical acumen. I say this because evidence is mounting --as far as I'm concerned-- that the Tordin/Alidou/Linnehan trio is simply *better* in most matches than the preferred Turner/Castellanos/Moultrie group. So, will he do the best thing for himself and play the team that gives himself the best chance at winning as he tries to make an argument for keeping his job long term, kinda like what Montoya did last season? Or does he continue to play the less effective group, including the player his assistant GM handpicked?
Another key point is that this isn't like last season when the talent pool was much thinner. He's not relying on Izzy and Spaanstra to be X-factors over Sinc, for instance. He has the talent even without Soph, now he's going to have to make the tough decisions.
The Castellanos issue continues to bubble to the surface. Its hard to place a lot of faith on a player who has started most games, but has contributed 1 goal and 0 assists. I get that raw stats are not the be all, end all of player evaluation, but at some point you have to produce if you are playing as a striker. But not only that, she is starting over both Turner and Tordin, who are more natural strikers. I would love to hear from Gale what he sees in her play that justifies the commitment he is showing her.
And you are correct, the talent pool on this team is pretty good. Its one of the reasons the inconsistency is hard to watch, because it feels like with some small tweaks the field could be opened up and the attack becoming more dangerous. At this point in the season inconsistency should show up less and less.
To me, Castellanos is a backup 10, that's it. I don't think she has another position (I think her best attribute is passing, often mid-range to long balls over the top) and I don't think she's starter quality unless it is a spot start for injury/call-up or 3 games in a week scenarios.
I think Moultrie should be the starting 10 and I wouldn't overthink it - just write it in pen. I think both Fleming and Hina are capable 10s as backups if they aren't playing another position at the time, so Castellanos is superfluous.
Castellanos has moments of brilliance, but I also think there is a reason she was available. Maybe someone else can get more out of her, but it won't be Gale. I don't know what she makes, but I think both the team and Deyna would benefit from her parting.
Agree about Tordin at the 9, she looks like a strong hold-up stud in the making. I think she should be starting. Edit: Even her profile picture on the Thorns site is badass.
I would guess a lot of people on this board wouldn't start Castellanos, but that isn't going to move the only 2-3 people where the decision matters. At least last year there was a reason that Gale started Sinclair so much, her experience was invaluable even if the contributions on the field were unvaluable. Castellanos doesn't even have a track record to look back on and make us think she will break out. That is why the decision to continue to start Castellanos is baffling, and hopefully one that someone will ask Gale about.
Also, Mimi is a 10 as well. I'm just not sure what the roster construction vision is here considering we seem to have so many redundant players. Mimi is best sitting under the striker imo, but she also can play an inverted wing pretty well. So yeah, I'd play Liv or Mimi in the 10 before Deyna even got a sniff of grass.
deyna was a flier they took because they lost Soph and she was available. That's fine! The problem this coach has is knowing when it's time to cut your losses
That would be concerning, but perhaps there is something there. Maybe she tears it up during practice and has earned the starting position that way? I can't really think of any other reason that she has been given so much leash to work with.
Yeah, I agree. But yeah def feels like he's trying to prove that it was still a good idea considering how much he talked her up when she was signed. Sunk cost fallacy. It's obvious that we have two 9's and two attacking mids who should be starting over her atp. It's just like....does he wanna win more games, or does he want to continue to try and prove a point.
ISTM that during this window Coffey has been cementing her starting position on the Nats while Moultrie hasn't helped her case much. The Moultrie we saw in these two games was the one that does a lot of dribbling and short-passing near the top of the box but doesn't really unlock the defense. We see this Moultrie in some Thorns games, though this year we've also seen the Moultrie who IS very good at generating prime chances. Not yet in the international game though.
Watching the USWNT game and thinking about how Sam bringing her college attacking traits and bit more athleticism into her game this season for club and country is some real infinity stone shit. Desperately hope we can find a way to keep her here for a bit longer cause she's starting to verge into some interesting territory in terms of "central midfielders in world soccer you'd want over her if you were drafting a team."
(and it's so cool to see her get her to play next to a full-stop six like Hutton for the nats like I've been begging to see for a year+)
the interesting thing about that is this development makes her less of a fix for the holes that some big clubs have right now. Like I don't think AWFC need another 6ish 8, they've already got 3 of them.
Based mostly on vibes and no real info, I'd imagine Sam either re-signs or goes abroad and Soph either re-signs or goes intra-NWSL.
I do wonder to what level the Thorns looking like a mostly competent mid-tier NWSL team with some upside instead of the disaster they very easily could have been affects player thought process. Gonna be an interesting summer.
One factor, and the one we don't really have any feel for, is how much the owners have to, and will, offer to keep them. My guess would begin at "what they're making now plus X%..?" but end at "less than what it would have taken to lure Girma here." but it could really be anywhere.
They're professional athletes, meaning they have to maximize their earning potential from a predeterminedly-short career, and that has to factor in. How heavily, compared to team form, potential prize money, enjoyment of venue I have no idea. But it has to be there, and that's where we're pretty much in the dark.
I would be surprised if money was the issue beyond whatever theoretical roster balance cap-related issues could exist: salaries are still not high enough to cause owners much heartache. I don't think there's a number an NWSL team could have offered to keep Girma in the NWSL, fwiw.
I imagine the biggest factor is still as simple as "do the players want to be in Portland?" If the answer is no, they won't be, if it's yes, they probably will.
So by that logic if a team in L1F, or the WSL, wanted Coffey, or Wilson, and were willing to offer GirmaBux the same metric would apply, no?
So while I won't disagree that the "pull" factor here might be the biggest, the "push" of "my agent can get me 2x this # from Chel$ki" could turn that yes into a no, eh?
I think Girma really wanted to go abroad and was pretty much gone as soon as Chelsea showed interest. I don’t think Soph has that same desire yet, both because she’s said she doesn’t feel the need to go abroad and because she has a partner —and soon to be child!— in the states
So yeah, I do think money plays a big role, but maybe slightly less of one when you’re at the level of the elite players and have a little bit more room to prioritize other factors than the players on the other end of the wage spectrum.
Soph's X factor is endorsement money, which far exceeds her salary by now. I expect staying the States leverages more, unless she's got the same public profile in Europe. No clue on that.
I think it’s helpful that Sam’s USWNT role is basically the same one she’s being asked to play for club….which, this evolution for club/country is pretty new and seems to have happened around the same time. I’m guessing this is intentional. On vibes, I kinda think Sam isn’t going anywhere. She’s talked a lot about just stepping into a leadership role and really shaping the team in Sinc/Kling/Becky’s honor and how the young players rely on her a lot. I just can’t see her bailing tbh. But, like why hasn’t a deal been done up to this point yet? Does she wanna play the market as a FA? Maybe it’s just to get as big a payday as she can?
It would be weird if the whole team knew their captain was leaving but had to still play cohesively for the whole 2nd half of the season. I know they’re all professionals and these things happen in this sport, but still…we’ve got such a young team with little leadership. Really hoping for some deals sooooon! Does a decision have to be announced July 1st? I forget the date. Or what the rules were with this FA date.
My understanding is that contracts still go to the end of the season, but the players have negotiating power starting July 1st. So technically we wouldn't HAVE to hear anything before she makes her decision....in theory, Sam could use the rest of the season and offseason to see how much money she could get in FA and/or explore options abroad and still come back, but I would think that they'd want to take care of it before it got to that point.
But yeah, I agree that it seems like she likes being here, which is why I think it's more likely she'd leave to fulfill a dream of playing abroad than ditch for the Courage or something.
Think I heard a piece on BBC about the difficulties girls/women had finding gender-specific boots that dove into the technical weeds about why mere sizing only scratched the surface of what they truly require. Can only say "good."
We used to make a yearly pilgrimage to Tursi to buy then Soccer Girl the latest $250 pair of Mercurials. Let the fall spending begin!
To play a little bit of devil's advocate re: the interview, I don't really disagree with him: They were the better team, they did generate more chances, and they did control the game. They generated nearly 3 xG and couldn't score. The Bixby error was atrocious. Sometimes the better team doesn't win. It happens in soccer.
My point in saying this isn't to defend Gale overall, but to remark that he needs to get much better at taking the bullet and having some accountability, even when there is a bit of bad luck involved. He could have just said a version of "I thought we were the better team but there there were a few choices I could have made differently," and that would have been a much more palatable response. There's also a bit of "boy who cried wolf" to his pressers: He's said that the Thorns deserved to win after losses when they definitely *didn't* deserve to win so many times that when it's actually true, he doesn't get any benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, this should be a weird weekend, because I imagine there will be a lot of int'l players getting more rest. I'm not sure if we can afford that, but all teams will be in the same boat. Having Hina and Coffey in the midfield is a necessity, and Coffey played a lot of minutes. It's essentially another 3 game week for her....coming off another 3 game week because of the Mexico tourney. She's prob exhausted but we need her to play most of the game. Jessie played a lot too, so I'm guessing she starts on the bench. Moultrie didn't play a whole lot and will likely start.
Minutes played for our int'ls:
Coffey played a full 90 on Sat, and then 60' on Tues. Hina played like 5 mins on Fri 30th, and then about 30 minutes on Monday, so at least her load is much lighter. On Sat, Mimi played 70' and Jessie played 75', and on Tues Mimi played 30' and Jessie played 65'. Deyna played 80' on Sat and 45' on Tues. Isa played a full 90' and then was subbed at the half in the second game presumably because Sweden had put 4 on them by the half (woof.) Torpey played 80' (as a mid/winger in a 442, I might add) and then played only like 20' in the second. Reyna played a full 90 in the first game, and sat out the second. So, Sam, Jessie, and Deyna played the most. Only Sam really needs to be starting though.
Still guessing we see the same ol with Deyna in the 9. Hey, she scored against New Zealand, so she's on the ascendancy(!) lol. But, she did play a lot also, so it would be a good excuse to leave her on the bench and play Turner or Tordin. It's against her former team though, so I'd bet she wants to see minutes.
"Okay Sam, I need you starting and like the announcers said, "this American squad is all in mid-season form."
Torpey returns with a fresh international goal under her belt, just like captain Sam.
Is Pietra on Emma's radar? She'd be right home on the U23 squad, which with this generation is dripping with talent. Interestingly, has been selected for both the Brazil and US U20s but only capped for the Americans (11).
Speaking of Deyna, as best as I can figure out of the travel ban mess, Venezuela is in the "visas restricted" category and not subject to an outright ban. She SHOULD be okay but it's not like this is my day job.
Tordin was at Hayes's Futures Camp back in January, so Emma at least knows about her, and since Hayes watches a lot of NWSL games, I suspect she sees Tordin's quality despite the limited minutes.
Didn't know until now that Tordin turned 21 just a couple months ago, and that her parents are Brazilian immigrants. She did actually play for the Seleçao U-20's, scoring in a 2023 friendly against France, and presumably she's still eligible for both the US and Brazil senior teams.
Does the USWNT currently have a 9 who plays like Tordin? When she plays as a 9, Macario might come the closest, but she's pretty different from Tordin overall and I can't think of anyone else like Tordin in the pool. Late-career Alex Morgan was a similar player but that was then. None of Triple Espresso fit the bill, nor do any of Thompson/Biyendolo/Sentnor/Cooper ("Quadruple Coffee" ?). Damn the Nats have a lot of attacking talent right now!
Looks like LoUta (Lootah?) is delayed because of... collective lack of interest? Potential for visual unpleasantness? Unavailably of Loovull players due to suspension?
If there's any player in the league who belongs on a different roster, it's Bianca St Georges. That girl should be playing for Loovull.
One would think that they could get in on it with a little vision and cooperation.
And I LOVE the fact that the Fire owner believes in private financing. Hopefully he means 100% private financing.
Here in the Rose City, the City is subsidizing the Moda Center and Rose Quarter updating/redevelopment, along with another $53 million bond for Memorial Coliseum improvements.
Then there's the massive cost of the Keller Auditorium renovation and new venue at PSU, with public funding and bonds, and the effort to get the State to issue $800 million in bonds for a MLB-attractive ballpark on South Waterfront. That's a lot.
I’m hugely skeptical of public funding for sportsball venues, whatever the type and wherever the location. The numbers never match the predictions the team partisans make, and even if they did, there’s so many other, better places to use tax dollars.
If the stadiums are that profitable? The team owners would be hoovering up the contracts themselves.
If this really is 100% private? Terrific! But color me doubtful until the ribbon is cut; those sweet public subsidies are so hard to resist…
Yeah I’m a huge nerd for urban stadium development so this gets me super excited. I’m sure there will be TIF-style financing mechanisms for the infrastructure improvements, but other than that it appears as though it is mostly private.
It does not seem like the Stars are involved (or will be involved) at all though, from the preliminary reporting.
Same! I have no professional training or education, but I love watching CityNerd on youtube lol. Urban infrastructure stuff is fascinating to me...urban stadium development included.
I wonder if this means the Stars might make a move to Soldier Field? Even if the Stars aren't included with this new development, maybe they'll enjoy some downstream perks with a vacancy there.
Not sure if you can see this twitter thread, but it lays out financing details about this new stadium. Only posting it bc it seemed relevant. The TIF stuff is way over my head, but thought you’d prob enjoy the read/breakdown.
Interesting. It seems like the owner is taking advantage of an existing TIF district to pay for most of the infrastructure because the area around the site is undeveloped. In short, public money for the infrastructure, but the stadium itself is entirely private.
So no, decidedly NOT 100% private, though that thread slightly mis-states what seems to happening in terms of the overall project. Like Chief says below, if there’s public money to be taken advantage of….it will be.
Thanks for breaking that down a bit. I couldn’t get a good read for whether the OP knew what they were talking about or not. I don’t have enough knowledge of that kinda stuff, but initially it did make it seem like “100% publicly funded” was a bit misleading.
And my guess is that if this happens the owners will ALSO lobby for various tax gimmes, like getting a bye on property taxes for a decade or some similar sketchy gimmick.
Then wait. After five years or so the formerly-new stadium is suddenly found to be in desperate need of a multimillion dollar fix - which is going to be predicated on public contributions.
There’s few things I’m more cynical about than stadium “deals”.
About that interview: Coaches need to win games. Because of that, their interview answers are targeted at influencing their team, not necessarily at speaking the truth or informing the public. Gale is no exception; he doesn't want a narrative of "the Thorns are having nightmare games" to permeate his team, so he highlights what went well - control, number of shots, getting in behind, and so on. He's trying to project some positivity in the face of an ugly defeat so his players don't spiral.
But at some point he needs to come closer to the truth or his players will stop believing him. It *is* a soccer nightmare when you run the game and gets loads of good shots, yet you still fall behind by two goals. To not acknowledge that is just delusional, and nice guy or not, he's going to lose the team if he keeps denying what everyone knows, and the players know what happened better than anyone around. I don't know if he's anywhere close to losing the locker room, but it could well happen some day.
Yeah, I think this is fair. I do get concerned with his public comments because I see no difference to how his team plays, and so I think he does actually believe it, but yes answers press conferences are for a) the team b) the front office c) journalists d) fans
12 points, 11 matches (assuming result holds - down 2-0 38th).
Maybe it goes a bit better today if Carter is available to help with Cooper and Chawinga, but Sonnett already has a yellow so this one could get uglier.
Ball and Rocky starting for KC today as Current work their way through injuries.
Reign win was really satisfying. Emma Hays was darn good at cracking the Rubic's cube of finding offense out of nowhere--two goals from players I never heard of--while frustrating what on paper is a much more powerful offense. SD had a whopping 63% possession.
ETA now let's see similar effort and results out of Gotham. No matter who's gaffing.
"Reign FC welcomes Japan’s Urawa Red Diamonds for a special International Friendly match at Lumen Field on Sunday, July 20 at 1 PM. Experience this unique match and the fierce spirit of Japan's WE League right here at home. Tickets are on sale now—secure your seat for this summer showcase!"
Guessing they can probably squeeze you in @ Lumen. Being Seattle, should be a hefty Japan fan turnout.
No because they’re playing the Thorns also! The dates were in SeatGeek, but now they just say TBD so I’m guessing they’re still working out deets. So far summer games against Seattle and Urawa.
So I'm curious what people's preferred starting 11 is right now. And I'm willing to allow for changed formations. Here is mine, based on a 4-3-3:
Bixby in Goal - She is healthy, and other than the one brain fart has been playing well:
Perry and Hiatt at CB - Its a decent pairing.
Reyes and Obaze at wingback - Obaze is here because while I like her at CB, she is versatile enough to play wide. It makes the formation more of a 3 back with Reyes floating forward.
Coffey and Sugita at CDM - The double pivot shouldn't be necessary, but both are etched in stone starters.
Moultre at CAM - Her best position, and she really needs to get the time there.
Hanks and Alidou as the wingers - Hanks is a potential superstar at wing, and I think Alidou provides skill and speed out there.
Turner at the striker - While I want to put Tordin there, I would also like to see Turner get a run at the striker position. I see this as a timeshare position though, until one of them grabs the position by the throat and doesn't let it go.
Fleming, Linnehan, Tordin and Mackenzie would be the primary subs off the bench. Just my ideas on the lineup.
Your personnel would be my starting XI also, for the most part. I am willing to give Turner a shot in the 9 over the course of several games- so she can get comfortable, but also so she can be seen across varying defensive structures. BUT, I honestly do see more technical skill/upside out of Tordin so far and would probably prefer to give her the run out first. But, I'm ok with swapping, so long as each gets a chunk of time. Swapping every other game isn't good for either player...neither can really establish any consistency and build off of performances.
Also, like, just reward players for playing well!! Tordin has been pretty hot with very limited minutes. It should be rewarded. Imo, this is how young players take bigger steps forward.
I agree with Liv at CAM, but I'd also be fine with Mimi there (but that would necessitate Linnehan starting at RW, and she's not a clear starter imo.) But having Liv there would push Mimi to play a more inverted RW, which is how I'd start also (so she'd more or less be playing as a second CAM next to Liv.) I really liked Mimi centrally with Tordin in the 9, though...they played off each other really well. I'm not sure if I'd love Liv under Tordin, because I feel like they would operate in the same areas. Every time we've seen Tordin pop off, it's been with Liv on the bench. It may be the case that if Tordin is in the 9, we have Mimi underneath, and if we have Turner in the 9, we have Liv underneath. Imo, we need to get rid of Deyna and Spaanstra and get a proper starting RW. Still some roster reworking that needs to be done for the M/F lines, esp considering Smith/Weaver for next season.
Obaze isn't a FB but I did like her there better than Torpey or McKenzie....but I don't think that's a solution that's gonna stick. For now, it's what I'd do.
If Arnold is healthy though, I'd start her. She's been really good this season so far.
Nice info about Mimi/Tordin, I hadn’t really thought about that. I also agree that Linnehan isn’t really ready to be a starter, so that is why I have Alidou at RW. Obaze is my preferred starter at CB, but the weakness at RB is pretty glaring right now it forces a position change for her.
The key thing is to let the forwards be forwards, to open up some space for the midfield to operate. Hanks does it naturally, and creates going to the endline. I would love to see something coming from the right side as well.
Great post. It does seem like both Tordin and Moultrie are top-of-the-box hold-up type players. Both are physical bullies. Neither seems inclined to make runs, diagonal or otherwise. Tordin seems better at headers, but that is expected based on their positions.
I keep having to remind myself that Alidou is 30ish years old. I like her as a player, but I'm playing Moultrie over her at the 10 and I'd probably be inclined to play Linnehan over her at RW to give her a legitimate look to see if she has starter quality in her. Some might say we have already, but I would still be starting her more to get a bigger sample size. Alidou is a great backup option at both the 10 and RW, though.
That's my preferred 11 as well except I'd have Arnold comfortably over Bixby if both are fit given Arnold has been, at worst, a top 3 NWSL keeper since joining last season. Totally fine with an open striker competition even if I think Tordin is probably already the best player (def the best finisher) of the three. Key is that Alidou should be playing over Castellanos, which, of course, means it won't happen :)
From what I see, Tordin is the best striker/9 on the team and, I think, by a pretty good margin. She can play back to the goal, she can bring the ball down into a position to shoot and quickly get her shot off, and she can dish well weighted balls to her teammates. In other words, she is a real soccer player. Turner can do some things, but I think she is nowhere as complete a player as Tordin. And it is not a good position for Deyna.
On acquisitions during the summer window, it seems to me the Club has committed itself to going young and building over time. Plus, I don't know how much money they have to spend with the salary cap. So I do not seem them bringing in an experienced star. I think they for sure need a right back -- oh how I wish Marie Muller were playing -- so I think that is what they go for, but I think if they do she will be young.
Regarding the beginnings of games, I thought against Tigres they tried to start playing hard and in fact did, but it seems not free flowing to me. Then, Tigres got the goal and the team seemed a bit psyched out. I wonder if they should sit back early and take some time to get free flowing.
I remember an earlier session you all did where you were hoping the Thorns would finish in the middle group in the NWSL but were worried they would be in the bottom group. So far, they have outperformed those expectations. There's lots of potential there, with the question being how soon they can realize it. I think at this point of the season they have progressed faster than I expected.
Agree that Tordin may well have "it" in that undefinable greater-than-the-sum-of-the parts special athlete sense. But she has to routinely start under Rob's purported system to find out if that's the case. What are the odds?
The discussion for me around Gale is increasingly becoming much more about his personnel choices than his tactical acumen. I say this because evidence is mounting --as far as I'm concerned-- that the Tordin/Alidou/Linnehan trio is simply *better* in most matches than the preferred Turner/Castellanos/Moultrie group. So, will he do the best thing for himself and play the team that gives himself the best chance at winning as he tries to make an argument for keeping his job long term, kinda like what Montoya did last season? Or does he continue to play the less effective group, including the player his assistant GM handpicked?
Another key point is that this isn't like last season when the talent pool was much thinner. He's not relying on Izzy and Spaanstra to be X-factors over Sinc, for instance. He has the talent even without Soph, now he's going to have to make the tough decisions.
The Castellanos issue continues to bubble to the surface. Its hard to place a lot of faith on a player who has started most games, but has contributed 1 goal and 0 assists. I get that raw stats are not the be all, end all of player evaluation, but at some point you have to produce if you are playing as a striker. But not only that, she is starting over both Turner and Tordin, who are more natural strikers. I would love to hear from Gale what he sees in her play that justifies the commitment he is showing her.
And you are correct, the talent pool on this team is pretty good. Its one of the reasons the inconsistency is hard to watch, because it feels like with some small tweaks the field could be opened up and the attack becoming more dangerous. At this point in the season inconsistency should show up less and less.
To me, Castellanos is a backup 10, that's it. I don't think she has another position (I think her best attribute is passing, often mid-range to long balls over the top) and I don't think she's starter quality unless it is a spot start for injury/call-up or 3 games in a week scenarios.
I think Moultrie should be the starting 10 and I wouldn't overthink it - just write it in pen. I think both Fleming and Hina are capable 10s as backups if they aren't playing another position at the time, so Castellanos is superfluous.
Castellanos has moments of brilliance, but I also think there is a reason she was available. Maybe someone else can get more out of her, but it won't be Gale. I don't know what she makes, but I think both the team and Deyna would benefit from her parting.
Agree about Tordin at the 9, she looks like a strong hold-up stud in the making. I think she should be starting. Edit: Even her profile picture on the Thorns site is badass.
I would guess a lot of people on this board wouldn't start Castellanos, but that isn't going to move the only 2-3 people where the decision matters. At least last year there was a reason that Gale started Sinclair so much, her experience was invaluable even if the contributions on the field were unvaluable. Castellanos doesn't even have a track record to look back on and make us think she will break out. That is why the decision to continue to start Castellanos is baffling, and hopefully one that someone will ask Gale about.
Also, Mimi is a 10 as well. I'm just not sure what the roster construction vision is here considering we seem to have so many redundant players. Mimi is best sitting under the striker imo, but she also can play an inverted wing pretty well. So yeah, I'd play Liv or Mimi in the 10 before Deyna even got a sniff of grass.
deyna was a flier they took because they lost Soph and she was available. That's fine! The problem this coach has is knowing when it's time to cut your losses
And AFAIK Castellanos wasn’t even his call, so you’d think if he wasn’t seeing something we’re not he’d be fine with trying something different.
So…maybe he does genuinely think she’s tearing it up..?
That would be concerning, but perhaps there is something there. Maybe she tears it up during practice and has earned the starting position that way? I can't really think of any other reason that she has been given so much leash to work with.
I'm guessing it kind of was his call
Yeah, I agree. But yeah def feels like he's trying to prove that it was still a good idea considering how much he talked her up when she was signed. Sunk cost fallacy. It's obvious that we have two 9's and two attacking mids who should be starting over her atp. It's just like....does he wanna win more games, or does he want to continue to try and prove a point.
ISTM that during this window Coffey has been cementing her starting position on the Nats while Moultrie hasn't helped her case much. The Moultrie we saw in these two games was the one that does a lot of dribbling and short-passing near the top of the box but doesn't really unlock the defense. We see this Moultrie in some Thorns games, though this year we've also seen the Moultrie who IS very good at generating prime chances. Not yet in the international game though.
Watching the USWNT game and thinking about how Sam bringing her college attacking traits and bit more athleticism into her game this season for club and country is some real infinity stone shit. Desperately hope we can find a way to keep her here for a bit longer cause she's starting to verge into some interesting territory in terms of "central midfielders in world soccer you'd want over her if you were drafting a team."
(and it's so cool to see her get her to play next to a full-stop six like Hutton for the nats like I've been begging to see for a year+)
the interesting thing about that is this development makes her less of a fix for the holes that some big clubs have right now. Like I don't think AWFC need another 6ish 8, they've already got 3 of them.
Based mostly on vibes and no real info, I'd imagine Sam either re-signs or goes abroad and Soph either re-signs or goes intra-NWSL.
I do wonder to what level the Thorns looking like a mostly competent mid-tier NWSL team with some upside instead of the disaster they very easily could have been affects player thought process. Gonna be an interesting summer.
One factor, and the one we don't really have any feel for, is how much the owners have to, and will, offer to keep them. My guess would begin at "what they're making now plus X%..?" but end at "less than what it would have taken to lure Girma here." but it could really be anywhere.
They're professional athletes, meaning they have to maximize their earning potential from a predeterminedly-short career, and that has to factor in. How heavily, compared to team form, potential prize money, enjoyment of venue I have no idea. But it has to be there, and that's where we're pretty much in the dark.
I would be surprised if money was the issue beyond whatever theoretical roster balance cap-related issues could exist: salaries are still not high enough to cause owners much heartache. I don't think there's a number an NWSL team could have offered to keep Girma in the NWSL, fwiw.
I imagine the biggest factor is still as simple as "do the players want to be in Portland?" If the answer is no, they won't be, if it's yes, they probably will.
So by that logic if a team in L1F, or the WSL, wanted Coffey, or Wilson, and were willing to offer GirmaBux the same metric would apply, no?
So while I won't disagree that the "pull" factor here might be the biggest, the "push" of "my agent can get me 2x this # from Chel$ki" could turn that yes into a no, eh?
I think Girma really wanted to go abroad and was pretty much gone as soon as Chelsea showed interest. I don’t think Soph has that same desire yet, both because she’s said she doesn’t feel the need to go abroad and because she has a partner —and soon to be child!— in the states
So yeah, I do think money plays a big role, but maybe slightly less of one when you’re at the level of the elite players and have a little bit more room to prioritize other factors than the players on the other end of the wage spectrum.
Soph's X factor is endorsement money, which far exceeds her salary by now. I expect staying the States leverages more, unless she's got the same public profile in Europe. No clue on that.
I think it’s helpful that Sam’s USWNT role is basically the same one she’s being asked to play for club….which, this evolution for club/country is pretty new and seems to have happened around the same time. I’m guessing this is intentional. On vibes, I kinda think Sam isn’t going anywhere. She’s talked a lot about just stepping into a leadership role and really shaping the team in Sinc/Kling/Becky’s honor and how the young players rely on her a lot. I just can’t see her bailing tbh. But, like why hasn’t a deal been done up to this point yet? Does she wanna play the market as a FA? Maybe it’s just to get as big a payday as she can?
It would be weird if the whole team knew their captain was leaving but had to still play cohesively for the whole 2nd half of the season. I know they’re all professionals and these things happen in this sport, but still…we’ve got such a young team with little leadership. Really hoping for some deals sooooon! Does a decision have to be announced July 1st? I forget the date. Or what the rules were with this FA date.
My understanding is that contracts still go to the end of the season, but the players have negotiating power starting July 1st. So technically we wouldn't HAVE to hear anything before she makes her decision....in theory, Sam could use the rest of the season and offseason to see how much money she could get in FA and/or explore options abroad and still come back, but I would think that they'd want to take care of it before it got to that point.
But yeah, I agree that it seems like she likes being here, which is why I think it's more likely she'd leave to fulfill a dream of playing abroad than ditch for the Courage or something.
This is interesting:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/44837916/women-specific-cleats-usl-super-league-players-injuries
Kang is an investor in the company, IDA Sports.
Think I heard a piece on BBC about the difficulties girls/women had finding gender-specific boots that dove into the technical weeds about why mere sizing only scratched the surface of what they truly require. Can only say "good."
We used to make a yearly pilgrimage to Tursi to buy then Soccer Girl the latest $250 pair of Mercurials. Let the fall spending begin!
To play a little bit of devil's advocate re: the interview, I don't really disagree with him: They were the better team, they did generate more chances, and they did control the game. They generated nearly 3 xG and couldn't score. The Bixby error was atrocious. Sometimes the better team doesn't win. It happens in soccer.
My point in saying this isn't to defend Gale overall, but to remark that he needs to get much better at taking the bullet and having some accountability, even when there is a bit of bad luck involved. He could have just said a version of "I thought we were the better team but there there were a few choices I could have made differently," and that would have been a much more palatable response. There's also a bit of "boy who cried wolf" to his pressers: He's said that the Thorns deserved to win after losses when they definitely *didn't* deserve to win so many times that when it's actually true, he doesn't get any benefit of the doubt.
Let's see, Friday
Utah at Loovull. Nope.
Reign at Wave. Can a team that never scores bunker a +9 team to a draw, on the road? Cooler says nope.
Saturday
KC at Gotham. Can the bats do this? Big maybe feels.
Dash at Orlando a.k.a. the Humidity Bowl. Season's biggest mismatch? Not while Chicago still exists, but still.
PTFC at San Jose. Ignore the aircraft traffic and steal the points. Winnable. p.s. Start Tordin.
Chi at LA. Nobody can explain AC but they can't possibly screw this up. Right? Right?
Sunday
NC at DC. Expecting a repeat of last year with Ashley Hatch taking charge and bossing Courage around. Never mind the coaching thing.
Yeah, this should be a weird weekend, because I imagine there will be a lot of int'l players getting more rest. I'm not sure if we can afford that, but all teams will be in the same boat. Having Hina and Coffey in the midfield is a necessity, and Coffey played a lot of minutes. It's essentially another 3 game week for her....coming off another 3 game week because of the Mexico tourney. She's prob exhausted but we need her to play most of the game. Jessie played a lot too, so I'm guessing she starts on the bench. Moultrie didn't play a whole lot and will likely start.
Minutes played for our int'ls:
Coffey played a full 90 on Sat, and then 60' on Tues. Hina played like 5 mins on Fri 30th, and then about 30 minutes on Monday, so at least her load is much lighter. On Sat, Mimi played 70' and Jessie played 75', and on Tues Mimi played 30' and Jessie played 65'. Deyna played 80' on Sat and 45' on Tues. Isa played a full 90' and then was subbed at the half in the second game presumably because Sweden had put 4 on them by the half (woof.) Torpey played 80' (as a mid/winger in a 442, I might add) and then played only like 20' in the second. Reyna played a full 90 in the first game, and sat out the second. So, Sam, Jessie, and Deyna played the most. Only Sam really needs to be starting though.
Still guessing we see the same ol with Deyna in the 9. Hey, she scored against New Zealand, so she's on the ascendancy(!) lol. But, she did play a lot also, so it would be a good excuse to leave her on the bench and play Turner or Tordin. It's against her former team though, so I'd bet she wants to see minutes.
In other words, Coffey played the most minutes of all and is the one we need the most.
Yup! That’s what happens when you have a super important player with a pretty large dropoff in talent below them!
When you put it that way....
"Okay Sam, I need you starting and like the announcers said, "this American squad is all in mid-season form."
Torpey returns with a fresh international goal under her belt, just like captain Sam.
Is Pietra on Emma's radar? She'd be right home on the U23 squad, which with this generation is dripping with talent. Interestingly, has been selected for both the Brazil and US U20s but only capped for the Americans (11).
Speaking of Deyna, as best as I can figure out of the travel ban mess, Venezuela is in the "visas restricted" category and not subject to an outright ban. She SHOULD be okay but it's not like this is my day job.
Tordin was at Hayes's Futures Camp back in January, so Emma at least knows about her, and since Hayes watches a lot of NWSL games, I suspect she sees Tordin's quality despite the limited minutes.
Didn't know until now that Tordin turned 21 just a couple months ago, and that her parents are Brazilian immigrants. She did actually play for the Seleçao U-20's, scoring in a 2023 friendly against France, and presumably she's still eligible for both the US and Brazil senior teams.
Does the USWNT currently have a 9 who plays like Tordin? When she plays as a 9, Macario might come the closest, but she's pretty different from Tordin overall and I can't think of anyone else like Tordin in the pool. Late-career Alex Morgan was a similar player but that was then. None of Triple Espresso fit the bill, nor do any of Thompson/Biyendolo/Sentnor/Cooper ("Quadruple Coffee" ?). Damn the Nats have a lot of attacking talent right now!
The more I watch her the more excited I get about Tordin.
TordinTime™ make the shirt already.
Tordin Heath?
Looks like LoUta (Lootah?) is delayed because of... collective lack of interest? Potential for visual unpleasantness? Unavailably of Loovull players due to suspension?
If there's any player in the league who belongs on a different roster, it's Bianca St Georges. That girl should be playing for Loovull.
https://bsky.app/profile/chicagosports.bsky.social/post/3lqpdnwg2ik2z
This is so sick. Shame the Stars won’t be a part of it (I assume).
One would think that they could get in on it with a little vision and cooperation.
And I LOVE the fact that the Fire owner believes in private financing. Hopefully he means 100% private financing.
Here in the Rose City, the City is subsidizing the Moda Center and Rose Quarter updating/redevelopment, along with another $53 million bond for Memorial Coliseum improvements.
Then there's the massive cost of the Keller Auditorium renovation and new venue at PSU, with public funding and bonds, and the effort to get the State to issue $800 million in bonds for a MLB-attractive ballpark on South Waterfront. That's a lot.
I’m hugely skeptical of public funding for sportsball venues, whatever the type and wherever the location. The numbers never match the predictions the team partisans make, and even if they did, there’s so many other, better places to use tax dollars.
If the stadiums are that profitable? The team owners would be hoovering up the contracts themselves.
If this really is 100% private? Terrific! But color me doubtful until the ribbon is cut; those sweet public subsidies are so hard to resist…
Yeah I’m a huge nerd for urban stadium development so this gets me super excited. I’m sure there will be TIF-style financing mechanisms for the infrastructure improvements, but other than that it appears as though it is mostly private.
It does not seem like the Stars are involved (or will be involved) at all though, from the preliminary reporting.
Same! I have no professional training or education, but I love watching CityNerd on youtube lol. Urban infrastructure stuff is fascinating to me...urban stadium development included.
I wonder if this means the Stars might make a move to Soldier Field? Even if the Stars aren't included with this new development, maybe they'll enjoy some downstream perks with a vacancy there.
Not sure if you can see this twitter thread, but it lays out financing details about this new stadium. Only posting it bc it seemed relevant. The TIF stuff is way over my head, but thought you’d prob enjoy the read/breakdown.
https://x.com/reformussoccer/status/1929994482608402778?s=46&t=e8Gx9bM3HEyE6UzYl-Lilw
Interesting. It seems like the owner is taking advantage of an existing TIF district to pay for most of the infrastructure because the area around the site is undeveloped. In short, public money for the infrastructure, but the stadium itself is entirely private.
So no, decidedly NOT 100% private, though that thread slightly mis-states what seems to happening in terms of the overall project. Like Chief says below, if there’s public money to be taken advantage of….it will be.
Thanks for breaking that down a bit. I couldn’t get a good read for whether the OP knew what they were talking about or not. I don’t have enough knowledge of that kinda stuff, but initially it did make it seem like “100% publicly funded” was a bit misleading.
And my guess is that if this happens the owners will ALSO lobby for various tax gimmes, like getting a bye on property taxes for a decade or some similar sketchy gimmick.
Then wait. After five years or so the formerly-new stadium is suddenly found to be in desperate need of a multimillion dollar fix - which is going to be predicated on public contributions.
There’s few things I’m more cynical about than stadium “deals”.
About that interview: Coaches need to win games. Because of that, their interview answers are targeted at influencing their team, not necessarily at speaking the truth or informing the public. Gale is no exception; he doesn't want a narrative of "the Thorns are having nightmare games" to permeate his team, so he highlights what went well - control, number of shots, getting in behind, and so on. He's trying to project some positivity in the face of an ugly defeat so his players don't spiral.
But at some point he needs to come closer to the truth or his players will stop believing him. It *is* a soccer nightmare when you run the game and gets loads of good shots, yet you still fall behind by two goals. To not acknowledge that is just delusional, and nice guy or not, he's going to lose the team if he keeps denying what everyone knows, and the players know what happened better than anyone around. I don't know if he's anywhere close to losing the locker room, but it could well happen some day.
Yeah, I think this is fair. I do get concerned with his public comments because I see no difference to how his team plays, and so I think he does actually believe it, but yes answers press conferences are for a) the team b) the front office c) journalists d) fans
Classic Chesky game. Feels familiar.
Dad-Pun Fun with current and former Thorns names:
Tordin, Heaps, Tobin Heath
Go kick BFD's butts today, Thorns!
Time to pronounce the corpse: RIP Gotham 2025.
12 points, 11 matches (assuming result holds - down 2-0 38th).
Maybe it goes a bit better today if Carter is available to help with Cooper and Chawinga, but Sonnett already has a yellow so this one could get uglier.
Ball and Rocky starting for KC today as Current work their way through injuries.
Per the NWSL Availability Report, Arnold is still out. So it'll presumably be Bixby in goal.
Sounds right. Also:
Ouestionable—Deyna Castellanos (back), Isabella Obaze (illness)
Maybe file under fate giveth/fate taketh away.
Loovull have won 4 of 5 and have passed us on the table, at least temporarily, though we have 1 match in hand. And Seattle just took down SD.
Reign win was really satisfying. Emma Hays was darn good at cracking the Rubic's cube of finding offense out of nowhere--two goals from players I never heard of--while frustrating what on paper is a much more powerful offense. SD had a whopping 63% possession.
ETA now let's see similar effort and results out of Gotham. No matter who's gaffing.
* Laura Harvey ?
Yeah, I keep doing that. Plus, she wasn't sitting on the cooler last night, further confusing me.
It's true you never see "Laura Harvey" and "Emma Hayes" together at the same time.
Anybody hauling themselves up I-5 for this?
"Reign FC welcomes Japan’s Urawa Red Diamonds for a special International Friendly match at Lumen Field on Sunday, July 20 at 1 PM. Experience this unique match and the fierce spirit of Japan's WE League right here at home. Tickets are on sale now—secure your seat for this summer showcase!"
Guessing they can probably squeeze you in @ Lumen. Being Seattle, should be a hefty Japan fan turnout.
No because they’re playing the Thorns also! The dates were in SeatGeek, but now they just say TBD so I’m guessing they’re still working out deets. So far summer games against Seattle and Urawa.