Also, again: MLS, what are you doing? This is the oldest rivalry in top-flight American soccer, and the home team today was wearing...red and black, and the visitors were wearing...pink and white. I may detest the Sounders' particular shade of green, but what the hell are the teams doing both wearing third kits in a big rivalry game?
It's largely driven by the fact that MLS doesn't require a light kit and a dark kit. S**ttle largely has two dark kits this year. We've done that before (green and red). So our green kits and their green kits clash too much, as our green kits do with their dark red kits.
So at least for this year, it's their red vs. our pink, which is so weird with neither team wearing their traditional color.
MLS should require every team has a white clash 3rd kit, but nobody has 3rd kits of any type anymore.
Would our pinkish kits really have blended in with their bright green kits? To the point that the players wouldn't be able to distinguish between themselves, and even with the fans? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I guess I'd have to see it on the field.
It just seems like teams should always wear some form of their primary colors. On Saturday, it looked more like Real Salt Lake was playing Inter Miami.
I think there are a few teams - Seattle included - that are allowed a third kit, or at least they were for a while after that 2016 edict came down. Not sure if that's still the case but if I recall, Seattle, Atlanta, and LAG were allowed to have a third.
Per their website, they have 5 kits (not including the pride kit and ocean plastic kit, bringing the total to 7). That said, I think they are only allowed to use 2 of them as 4 of those 5 still have the old kit sponsor on them on their website. Their goat piss green is their "light kit", current version of which was introduced in 2022.
Even though it was on the road, Portland didn’t play midweek and Seattle was missing some players. If Portland is going to turn their season around this was a game they needed to win. I will still watch the games and root for them but I expect this season will look a lot like last season. Maybe we end up with the Cascadia cup again but I am not expecting much more.
I watched from home on the couch. And actually feel asleep around the 65ish minute. Imagine that. Falling asleep. To a Seattle/Portand match. And I'm RCTID. WTF? Imagine a neutral watching...
We had a friend in town so I was mostly watching on my phone as we were out touristing around. I was more bothered by the fact that I didn't know, until we got there, that Multnomah Falls is using a timed entry system now than I was by missing the 10 or so minutes of the match it took to figure out how to get an entry slot to the Falls.
The rivalry is always big; this one just felt a lot less...weighty because the Timbers are such a slowly deflating balloon these days.
At least the point means the Timbers are in the Cascadia Cup lead, so that's something positive.
That was a waste of an opportunity to get some points. Seattle was non threatening. Portland wasn't much better.
I've said it many times - our wing play is horrible. I love Asprilla - legend and all - but he is not a starter, even in MLS. He had one moment in the first half where he put in a pass in the box that was close but didn't find feet. Beyond that, nothing. Moreno looked lost. He's not a wing, Such a waste of talent. He's a 10.
Niezgoda was very good. He gives the team the idea to pass, because otherwise they look to do everything on its own. The times the team decided to go through him, he looked very good. I wonder what he would be like with good wings on the team. I imagine he'd be very effective.
Paredes owned the midfield on his own. He won so many balls it was ridiculous.
Whoever says Evander had a good game needs to get their eyes examined. He had one or two good plays, but then was non existent. He had a nice pass to Asprilla in the first half, but Asprilla really choked to not get it off.
Defensively, there wasn't anything to worry about from Seattle except one header in the second half. The problem was they didn't play out of the back. That was really annoying, because it was Timbers 2012.
Finally, Fogaca comes in and the one time they get it to him on the wing - yes, he is a wing so get over yourselves who think he is a forward - he takes it to the end line and gets a corner kick. Wow, the only time somebody did that the entire game, I have to wait 90 plus to see it. How is it that I can see he is a winger and nobody else gives him a chance until the 80th minute? The guy should be starting over Asprilla, who can do Asprilla things in the weird moments of the game, but not as a starter. Start Fogaca, please.
So disappointing that they were a better team than seattle, but Gio once again can't get it right in the personnel decisions. So done with him.
Although I agree with your Evander comment. I question if you need your eyes about nieazgoda. The guy is a ghost. Like, you can't push that narrative and people will believe it. We all have eyes. This team is terrible with nieazgoda and he wastes so much time for other player who could do more. The guy is hot dog water. He shouldn't be on this team and he needs to leave.
I get it Lefty, you are a huge Niezgoda fan and have been consistently so. Even in the face of him being ineffective since returning from his ACL 4 seasons ago. He scored 9 goals last year in 30 games / 1974 minutes, better than his half missed and rehab season in 2022 but still anemic compared to what is considered a good #9 in this league (0.41 g/90) which is Carles Gil, Ebobise, and yes - so far Boli type numbers. Star DP strikers in this league produce twice as much as his best. This year he sits on 0.17 g/90 which puts him 7th on the team, ahead of mostly defenders who have played a ton of minutes and scored 1-2 goals in 3x the minutes he has played. Strikers have to strike.
As for passing, I suppose I could give him more leeway if that passing was producing assists, incisive passing inside the box, but the guy has zero assists this year, had just 2 last year when was getting a ton more minutes (0.09 a/90 -- the only Timbers players who recorded an assist who had a lower output were Mabiala, Bravo and D. Chara - two of whom had the same number but played more minutes, Mabs fewer minutes and only 1 assist).
These are the reasons he rides the bench. He isn't mobile or athletic enough to be a target forward, he isn't fast enough to go chasing through balls to the corner, his passing isn't good enough to be an offensive fulcrum / set up guy, he isn't good in the air with his head, he isn't going to beat anyone 1v1. He is only going to succeed in a 2 forward setup where someone else can set him up ... he can score if given time and space, but that isn't the style of this team and even if we dumped Gio, I think it would take much longer than he has as a Timber because more important than anything, he is eating up a ton of salary cap space to be essentially the 2nd coming of Kris Boyd who just stuck around 4x as long.
I think he's the best we've got, and whatever happens next year is what it is. He was a big part of winning mlsib tourney, so we know he's got the ability. You make great points - he hasn't been effective and I had written him off after lackluster play earlier this year, but I am seeing signs that he is back.
He was a great release valve yesterday. They had the second coming of a Real Madrid counterattack in the first half due to his quick release and then it swung to Asprilla and because Asprilla has no pace he slows it up and the counter is over. Any winger would have licked his chops and taken it to the end line and whipped in a cross, or cut in and hit a shot, or fed the nine coming in for the kill. That was a joy to see the quick passing, and then killjoy.
I think folks don't see what he does. A nine doesn't have to do it all. He is good in the air - we've seen that.
I think you're right in that he would succeed with another forward type - like Fogaca, and definitely Blanco - guys who can get him the ball or he can work the ball to them. He's not selfish or slow with his plays. Granted, he makes mistakes like any player, but I think he gives the team a passing identity that they lack when he is not out there.
I thought his shape and his defense was very good - always making Seattle go backwards. Anyway, I'm all for Boli succeeding, but he's a different type of player than Niezgoda.
Last thing, Timbers didn't lose 4-1 like they did last week and were better than Seattle in many ways, and I think Niezgoda helped play a role in that.
I just can't anymore. Everything says nieazgoda isn't good. From stats to fans watching him, and somehow you keep trying to say it into existence that he is. It ain't happening. Nobody is going to agree with you.
He’s good in the air, when uncontested. Otherwise he’ll get beat. He has a good touch, when uncontested. Otherwise defenders just take it off him easily because he has no strength to keep defenders at bay. He can make some decent passes around the box and usually can’t dribble much. Was he a big part of MLSiB? He scored a good goal vs LAFC and a tap in vs Cinci, but other than that it was Jebo leading the line for us
I only watched about 40 minutes from him yesterday (I had things going on so I missed minutes 40-75, I hope to watch it later) so I can’t comment too much on his game, but for the little I saw from him it was... fine? “Fine” being a small step below “decent.” He definitely looks to have more energy and sharpness than he’s shown all year. And the fact that this was probably his best game in what feels like nearly 10 months says a whole lot.
It doesn’t feel like he’s a threat unless the ball comes to him in a dangerous area. Boli makes more runs in behind, he’s hungrier with his play, he shoots more, he gets involved more, he’s much much stronger, he can dribble and create chances on his own, and most importantly, he finds chances much more reliably. The defenders have to think about him. I hope Niezgoda can continue to improve and proves me wrong but for now I think Boli is the better option
I agree that Evander was not great and had a few lazy short passes, but I think he worked really hard on defense, which was needed since the Timbers spent a lot of time on their own half of the field. The whole team provided a solid defensive performance. Unfortunately, that extra defensive work might be why Evander looked very tired in the final 15 minutes and stoppage time. The team could use a healthy Blanco to replace him late in the game. But right now the Timbers don’t have Blanco, Williamson, Mora, Y. Chara, and Mosquera — all who can attack when healthy. And with Ayala also out as a replacement in the midfield, D. Chara and Paredes have to play the whole game, which they did well on Saturday.
The Timbers lived in Seattle's half in the first half, and I'd say it was more even in the second half. Evander plays up top in the defensive formation and maybe that is too much running for him. The defensive shape seemed to be solid, though, especially with Niezgoda.
I agree - Blanco would have been a great addition.
Overall, the biggest factor for me was not playing anything out of the back. All the ball winning went straight up the field and back to Seattle.
Evander turned it over a lot more than we’ve ever seen him do. He was off. It’s probably the first time he’s played on NFL turf, which may or may not have anything to do with it.
Lumen uses the exact same type of turf as Providence Park. It's worn a bit more because of the Seahawks/Reign/Sea Dragons (XFL) use of the same field, but it's the same stuff as down here.
According to an STH friend of mine, it's going to be replaced after this season. That surface gets way more use than PP's does, so it compresses faster and looks terrible most of the time. The Sounders don't own the building and so don't have a whole lot of say in how often it's replaced, that decision is up to the Seahawks.
I also think the multiuse / multipurpose stadium and constantly washing off lines and putting down new ones is really hard on plastic / rubber / sand fields. There are lots of examples of multiuse fields in high schools, parks, etc., where the lines are permanent and get much less care and attention from a grounds crew - and they hold up for 5-7 years in decent shape. But that seahawks stadium pitch is always (even when pretty new) just thrashed from the over-use and constant powerwashing disruption of the base of the field.
The two greatest things that could happen for soccer in the Northwest is that the money gets invested in a grass pitch in Providence Park and that the Shittle Flounders / Puget Sound Women's Soccer Team move out of that stadium to a place where they can control the pitch and possibly have grass too.
What is Lumen's turf on top of though? Providence Park/Peregrine Sports have made a big deal out of having some kind of e-layer or something. That probably doesn't matter when it comes to how the ball rolls, which may be more about the extra wear you mentioned before, but might make a difference in other respects.
Sounds just like every post you've written every week. Maybe you just saw what you had predetermined you'd see: fogaça is a winger, Asprilla isn't a starter, niezgoda is our best forward, Moreno shouldn't play out wide, etc etc. Cut and paste.
Totally agree about Nathan starting! Don't agree about Goda having a good game. Maybe I just dislike him so much that I miss what he does well. That said, the Timbers need to learn not to expect him to catch up to forward passes because he just can't do it.
Funny part is that most of our mids have passing accuracy stats in the mid 80s (defenders higher, but they gain the benefit of mostly unpressured passes in the back). Niezgoda's PTFC career passing completion is 68% (same as Boli and Nathan, much lower than Asprilla but he is listed as a forward in name only, mostly has been deployed as a MF).
I agree that we give up a lot of dumb balls at extremely inopportune times (final pass. in transition, etc) - and it has been a lot worse this year than prior years with mostly the same roster. We frequently try to force things that are just not there which I believe is because we are so committed to the quick counter as our only offensive weapon that we'd rather turn the ball over than rest and possess for a couple of minutes. That piece of things is a Gio thing - it is because GioBall is defend and quick counter and if quick counter doesn't work, then give the ball up and try again.
Ironic but the team that leads the league right now in passing accuracy is LA Galaxy and have 12 points and a GD of -13 to show for it. The worst team? St. Louis who are actually 2nd in the league on PPG (have only played 14 games) with a +18 GD. Ultimately it is about cashing in on opportunities vs squandering them.
I agree that the passing stats are fluffed up by the constant negative passing. It would be ingesting to see passing accuracy broken down by forward / negative passing, or by defensive/mid/attackig thirds. Some stat that reflects accuracy in various states of play. This iteration of PTFC seem pretty bad when they are on the move - particularly linking series of passes.
It doesn't go into a whole lot of granular detail, but the MLS match page for every game has a basic pass map that shows the overall shape and location of a team's passing. That map for yesterday is here:
Hovering over the line will give you a look at passes between the two points on that line.
FBRef also has some granular data about passing, it's not in visual form but the "passing" tab on the team stats page has a lot of info about attempts, completions, pass length, etc that paint a pretty good picture.
I'm mostly annoyed that all the "good" stats are not available to fans for free - teams and Opta collect waaaaaaaaay more granular info than this but us randos out here in the world don't have access to them unless we want to pay ridiculous amounts for an Opta subscription.
The highlights mention Asprilla several times but Niezgoda nonce, paints a familiar picture.
Evander had great moments, but was also flat-footed several times and just looked worn or uninterested.
I wonder if JDM had played if there would have been any difference, but I'm guessing not really.
Bravo does toe the line with overplaying and giving up fouls, never-the-less, I generally love watching him play and think the Timbers need a hard nose guy out there.
The whole team was just blah today on rivalry weekend, does this telegraph something deeper or was it just an off day?
If I hadn't been following this team since 2001, I'd be a Thorns fan.
Many have said we need players mostly at CB and the 9 and I feel we need depth at those positions mostly CB. Personally, I feel a top flight LW is the priority. With Blanco questionable Loria not giving much and Asprilla and Chara, who will need more rest than his brother at box to box, both over 30, I would focus on left wing. Santi and Evander play off each other well and Mosquera can contribute too but may be gone next year, Im not sure that striker and CB are the top concern.
Yeah, wing play has been pretty lackluster this season. Asprilla has been very disappointing. He’s usually to be a beast in the air, but he’s had numerous headers where he’s been completely free in the middle of the box and he’s mistimed his jump or head snap every time. Loria is who he is at this point, and Moreno doesn’t seem to be as free as he often is (playing with a light injury all year I’m sure is contributing to that), though he’s still one of our best players. Yimmi is great but he’s been injured.
I was gonna say that “I assume we’ll get a DP winger once Blanco and Niezgoda are off the books at the end of the year,” but I’m not sure if that’s a good use of resources with Yimmi presumably still here and Moreno a definite starter. Whether you think Yimmi should be starting next year or not, having two DPs for one position isn’t great roster management
With Evander and Yimmi as the DP's going forward, we can choose where to sign the next DP on the team. If you see Evander as more of a forward, finding a CDM or CB would make sense. If you think of Evander as more a true mid, CB and Striker make sense. But if the FO is thinking of moving on from Gio then it probably makes sense to wait until a new coach is hired to fit what they would want to do. This is an actual reason to either move on from Gio or commit to him through the end of his contract.
For what its worth, I don't think wing is a position of weakness on the team. With Moreno, Yimmi, Asprilla and Loria we have a good stable of players. Asprilla appears to be slower and less decisive, but Loria is a low cost replacement for him. If you think of Moreno as more of a central player, then we do need to find a quality wing.
Has anyone seen the u-20 usmnt play? Man they are fun to watch! I have been watching them for awhile now and that team honestly plays a better system than the senior team. The senior team has better players but the system the u-20 team plays is excellent. The movement, the understanding of position and player. They just got knocked out from the u-20 world cup because of an own goal by a defender.
that is one coach I would love to see Portland go after. He isn't a "big name" but I think he is very attainable. I have heard a couple players say they love their time with the u20 team because they love the way they play. That's a big compliment from a player and I can't think of a bigger one for a coach.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MERRITT (I know he reads these) MAKE A CHANGE AND CONSIDER MIKEY VARAS
I'm with you on the U-20 play. That was a fun watch the past few weeks. The whole U-20 World Cup was exciting, as it looked like teams went out and played.
"Portland's scoreless draw against Seattle on Saturday was the third time it has failed to score in its last four regular season matches" + Last 3 v Dallas: L,D,D
Since we don't have an open thread, it sounds like Messi is going to come to MLS and play for Miami! I'm so bummed that we don't play them this year and probably won't next year as well. That would have been a treat for fans!
I would be heavily skeptical of Messi actually playing on FieldTurf, given the history of how elite European players have adapted to playing here. I do wonder whether, if that is the case, MLS/Miami would require him to travel with the team anyway, and take up a spot on the bench anyway, being that he's a guaranteed draw wherever he goes.
Also: This Messi is not in any way peak Messi. He is not going to run circles around every defender he sees at this point in his career. I kinda see his MLS tenure playing out like late-period Thierry Henry at NYRB; he'll stay fairly close to the center of the field and pick his spots, he'll conserve his energy 99% of the time but go all out when he senses a scoring opportunity, and he'll score a fair bit. But he won't singlehandedly revolutionize how Miami plays, or elevate the level of the league as a whole, at this point in his career.
He may not be peak Messi, but he is still a premier player. I would hope that he would travel with the team even if his minutes are managed. To be honest I am curious to see how a player of his caliber plays at the MLS level. He has shown that he is still an effective player, but he won't have the quality around him that he is used to. That being said, I expect to see Miami attract a number of players to their squad over the next couple of years to get the opportunity to play with him. I do expect to see more interest in MLS due to this.
Why is Messi gong to Miami? I can think of a few reasons - dominating the pitch, liking the weather, etc. - but it sure can't be the money. Especially considering what his Portuguese colleague is making in Saudi Arabia, the guy can surely acquire even more untold riches elsewhere.
Lionel Messi is coming to play for Inter Miami for a number of reasons.
To experience a new challenge. Messi has won everything there is to win at Barcelona, including 10 La Liga titles, 4 Champions League titles, and 7 Ballon d'Or awards. He is looking for a new challenge and believes that Inter Miami can provide that.
To live in Miami. Messi and his family have been looking for a new place to live for some time. They are attracted to Miami's warm weather, beaches, and lifestyle.
To be part of David Beckham's project. Beckham is a co-owner of Inter Miami and has been a long-time admirer of Messi. He believes that Messi can help Inter Miami become a top team in MLS.
To grow the game of soccer in the United States. Messi is one of the most popular athletes in the world and his arrival in MLS will help to grow the game in the United States.
Messi's arrival at Inter Miami is a major coup for the club and for MLS. It is a sign that the league is on the rise and that it is now a destination for top players from around the world.
I am completely fine with him going to Inter Miami. I guess the questions are, will the Designated Player rules change to accommodate his salary? Will his salary be paid by all the MLS teams? We'll see.
The DP rules won't need to change. They bought down one of their existing DP's to create a spot for him. Gregore is injured, so they bought him down below the threshold, which means Messi is a DP just like any other.
"Will his salary be paid by all the MLS teams?"
No. It will be paid by Miami's ownership. He will also apparently get profit incentives from Apple and Adidas (not subsidized by other teams, separately negotiated), and an equity stake in Inter Miami.
I'm just trying to see if there's a maximum salary the DP can go to. There have also been rumors (unconfirmed) of other clubs also paying his salary.
We'll see. I hope you're right. But if there is a sticking point, it's not like MLS won't introduce a new rule to let a player sign with a team they want them to sign with.
There isn't a ceiling, other than what a team owner can afford/wants to pay - that's literally why the DP designation exists. A DP's salary only counts as $651K for the purposes of the salary cap, but, for instance, Xherdan Shaqiri makes $8.1M, Lorenzo Insigne makes $7.5M, and Chicharito makes $7.4M. As long as a team has a DP slot open, or can buy an existing DP down to create an open slot, a team can pay that player whatever they want/can afford.
"There have also been rumors (unconfirmed) of other clubs also paying his salary."
I mean, I get that Messi is a draw for MLS as a league, but why would another team in the league pay, or want to pay, the salary of a player that will be competing against them? Messi will be well taken care of by Inter Miami and external sponsorships.
They have given up so many points already this year, and it seems very reminiscent of last year, that I don't see any reason why it will get any better. Gio really can't get the personnel combos right.
It's weird that they drew today, and I am pissed, but Seattle was 12 year old dog breath bad and the Timbers acted like they couldn't play with the ball. Beyond disappointing.
Since the Timbers joined MLS in 2011, the average season points total for the last team to qualify for the playoffs in the Western Conference is 48. The Timbers thus would need 31 points from those 18 games, or a 1.7 PPG pace, to hit 48 and be confident of a playoff spot. They're currently playing at a 1.06 PPG pace.
The line has been lowered though. I guess, on a linguistic technicality placing 8th or 9th isn't "in the playoffs" as those qualify for play in games (for me that is the same thing).
I suspect the line to make the top 9 will be closer to 40, top 7 will be 46-48.
yeah, we'll see what happens - that average does take into account the different number of teams in the conference and the different number of teams who made the playoffs in any year, though.
I suspect you're right and the number will be lower, although I'm not sure how much.
But this also is an excuse for me to yet again mention my idea for the playoffs, which I've thought would be a great idea for years. MLS should, at the beginning of every season, set a per-conference points total, and any team meeting or exceeding that total makes the playoffs. That total could be based on the prior season, some sort of average of past seasons, or whatever.
Some seasons that might mean 9 teams make the playoffs, some seasons 6, and there'd need to be a way to account for odd-team playoff years and who fills any necessary vacancies, but I've always thought that'd be a fun way to determine playoff eligibility.
It should be like Europe. There should be no playoffs to determine league champions. It should be based on points and that's it.
That would force owners to be accountable for the product they are putting on the field. Playoffs give owners an excuse to go cheap, not invest in the team. If they know they can skimp into the playoffs and just get lucky on the day they could win a title. There is no incentive to put out the best product you can.
Playoffs are just a cash grab and that's it. The fact so many teams make the playoffs tell you just that.
As for tournament play, that's what the open cup and champions league are for. Or whatever the new one is. Those should be separate and should be concluded at the end of the seasons
The unbalanced schedule and soon to be 30 team league that only plays 34 games (even if you went to 38 like Europe it would still be unbalanced) means that will not happen. Relegation isn't coming any time soon either. There would have to be massive financial support of relegated clubs. You don't invest half a billion dollars on a US based 2nd tier team in the 3rd/4th most popular in person sport that still has low TV viewership.
I just don't think the American sports psyche has the space to care about 2-3 games for the worst 3 clubs in the league trying to avoid relegation and maybe a game or two in a close year for the best teams too (where the other 15 teams mostly no longer matter). American sports fans have a hundred plus years (except baseball before 55 years ago - something not many people remember at all) of having high stakes games for the best teams at the end. That is who we are.
I like the European system for European leagues. I like the playoffs for MLS. Playoffs are fun! The playoff tournament is essentially a second mini-season in which randomness can rule and odd results are a feature, not a bug, and I like that.
And unless MLS commits to playing a schedule like Europe's, there's no way to make a championship based solely on points any fairer than a playoff system, because strength of schedule would be as big a factor as quality of team.
"Playoffs are just a cash grab and that's it."
Literally everything about top level sports is a cash grab. American sports fans are culturally accustomed to the idea of a playoff tournament at the end of a regular season, so I see no need for MLS to do things differently. I may quibble around the edges - I don't think nine teams from each conference need to qualify - but I don't have a problem with MLS using a playoff system overall.
"fittingly produced the first regular season scoreless draw between the Timbers and Sounders in the MLS era."
I think ever? Not just MLS?
This was a nationally televised game that is, if you ask the two teams' supporters, the biggest rivalry in MLS. I don't think the rest of MLS fandom would agree with that, based on this display. Not that that matters, but this game was...bleak.
Bleak in so many ways, except Timbers were most dangerous team and are still unbeaten at Seattle in 7 years. But they simply can’t finish. So many chances wasted. Team not on same page.
True, but being the "most dangerous team" in this particular game is about as big an honor as being the best surfer in Wyoming. Both teams put up an xG of 0.3, and while the Timbers outshot the Sounders 11-5 none of those shots were particularly dangerous or threatening.
I mean, I'm happy they didn't lose, and a point isn't the worst outcome, but as you say, this team is not on the same page right now, and I will just add that to the list of things I blame the coaching staff for.
Both teams were so bad that the Timbers couldn't even double that terrible number and Shittle could only draw even with them? Teams putting out xGs of a third of a goal are hard to watch, obviously.
This is the worst start through 17 games in mls history. Worse than under Spencer, and that's saying something. They fired him, let's see what they do with gio.
That's the big question - does MP still give enough of a shit about the Timbers to do what's needed and clear out the coaching staff? It wouldn't cost much in the overall picture of Timbers finances, and it desperately needs to happen. I guess we'll see, but I think I know the answer, and the answer I think I know depresses me, because from where I sit the answer is status quo.
Also, again: MLS, what are you doing? This is the oldest rivalry in top-flight American soccer, and the home team today was wearing...red and black, and the visitors were wearing...pink and white. I may detest the Sounders' particular shade of green, but what the hell are the teams doing both wearing third kits in a big rivalry game?
Yeah weird watching RSL play. And with Rusnak on the team
It's largely driven by the fact that MLS doesn't require a light kit and a dark kit. S**ttle largely has two dark kits this year. We've done that before (green and red). So our green kits and their green kits clash too much, as our green kits do with their dark red kits.
So at least for this year, it's their red vs. our pink, which is so weird with neither team wearing their traditional color.
MLS should require every team has a white clash 3rd kit, but nobody has 3rd kits of any type anymore.
Would our pinkish kits really have blended in with their bright green kits? To the point that the players wouldn't be able to distinguish between themselves, and even with the fans? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I guess I'd have to see it on the field.
Didn’t MLS ban 3rd kits for all teams in 2016 and after? So weird when they also allow 2 dark kits.
It just seems like teams should always wear some form of their primary colors. On Saturday, it looked more like Real Salt Lake was playing Inter Miami.
I think there are a few teams - Seattle included - that are allowed a third kit, or at least they were for a while after that 2016 edict came down. Not sure if that's still the case but if I recall, Seattle, Atlanta, and LAG were allowed to have a third.
Per their website, they have 5 kits (not including the pride kit and ocean plastic kit, bringing the total to 7). That said, I think they are only allowed to use 2 of them as 4 of those 5 still have the old kit sponsor on them on their website. Their goat piss green is their "light kit", current version of which was introduced in 2022.
Sometimes a draw feels like a win and sometimes a draw feels like a loss and sometimes a draw feels like a miserable waste of an afternoon.
Even though it was on the road, Portland didn’t play midweek and Seattle was missing some players. If Portland is going to turn their season around this was a game they needed to win. I will still watch the games and root for them but I expect this season will look a lot like last season. Maybe we end up with the Cascadia cup again but I am not expecting much more.
If there ever was a game to win on the road in Seattle, this was it.
I watched from home on the couch. And actually feel asleep around the 65ish minute. Imagine that. Falling asleep. To a Seattle/Portand match. And I'm RCTID. WTF? Imagine a neutral watching...
And that's 1 goal in 4 games now.
Rose City Til I Doze?
So I wasn’t the only guy who fell asleep…around 65 mins.too. Wasn’t going to admit it, but since you did…
We had a friend in town so I was mostly watching on my phone as we were out touristing around. I was more bothered by the fact that I didn't know, until we got there, that Multnomah Falls is using a timed entry system now than I was by missing the 10 or so minutes of the match it took to figure out how to get an entry slot to the Falls.
The rivalry is always big; this one just felt a lot less...weighty because the Timbers are such a slowly deflating balloon these days.
At least the point means the Timbers are in the Cascadia Cup lead, so that's something positive.
That was a waste of an opportunity to get some points. Seattle was non threatening. Portland wasn't much better.
I've said it many times - our wing play is horrible. I love Asprilla - legend and all - but he is not a starter, even in MLS. He had one moment in the first half where he put in a pass in the box that was close but didn't find feet. Beyond that, nothing. Moreno looked lost. He's not a wing, Such a waste of talent. He's a 10.
Niezgoda was very good. He gives the team the idea to pass, because otherwise they look to do everything on its own. The times the team decided to go through him, he looked very good. I wonder what he would be like with good wings on the team. I imagine he'd be very effective.
Paredes owned the midfield on his own. He won so many balls it was ridiculous.
Whoever says Evander had a good game needs to get their eyes examined. He had one or two good plays, but then was non existent. He had a nice pass to Asprilla in the first half, but Asprilla really choked to not get it off.
Defensively, there wasn't anything to worry about from Seattle except one header in the second half. The problem was they didn't play out of the back. That was really annoying, because it was Timbers 2012.
Finally, Fogaca comes in and the one time they get it to him on the wing - yes, he is a wing so get over yourselves who think he is a forward - he takes it to the end line and gets a corner kick. Wow, the only time somebody did that the entire game, I have to wait 90 plus to see it. How is it that I can see he is a winger and nobody else gives him a chance until the 80th minute? The guy should be starting over Asprilla, who can do Asprilla things in the weird moments of the game, but not as a starter. Start Fogaca, please.
So disappointing that they were a better team than seattle, but Gio once again can't get it right in the personnel decisions. So done with him.
Although I agree with your Evander comment. I question if you need your eyes about nieazgoda. The guy is a ghost. Like, you can't push that narrative and people will believe it. We all have eyes. This team is terrible with nieazgoda and he wastes so much time for other player who could do more. The guy is hot dog water. He shouldn't be on this team and he needs to leave.
I respect your opinion but you are wrong.
He releases the ball so clean. He looks to pass, he makes this team see that they are not a bunch of individuals and can pass.
Yes, he is not served if that is what you mean by being a ghost. Agaibn NOOOOO Wing play.
I get it Lefty, you are a huge Niezgoda fan and have been consistently so. Even in the face of him being ineffective since returning from his ACL 4 seasons ago. He scored 9 goals last year in 30 games / 1974 minutes, better than his half missed and rehab season in 2022 but still anemic compared to what is considered a good #9 in this league (0.41 g/90) which is Carles Gil, Ebobise, and yes - so far Boli type numbers. Star DP strikers in this league produce twice as much as his best. This year he sits on 0.17 g/90 which puts him 7th on the team, ahead of mostly defenders who have played a ton of minutes and scored 1-2 goals in 3x the minutes he has played. Strikers have to strike.
As for passing, I suppose I could give him more leeway if that passing was producing assists, incisive passing inside the box, but the guy has zero assists this year, had just 2 last year when was getting a ton more minutes (0.09 a/90 -- the only Timbers players who recorded an assist who had a lower output were Mabiala, Bravo and D. Chara - two of whom had the same number but played more minutes, Mabs fewer minutes and only 1 assist).
These are the reasons he rides the bench. He isn't mobile or athletic enough to be a target forward, he isn't fast enough to go chasing through balls to the corner, his passing isn't good enough to be an offensive fulcrum / set up guy, he isn't good in the air with his head, he isn't going to beat anyone 1v1. He is only going to succeed in a 2 forward setup where someone else can set him up ... he can score if given time and space, but that isn't the style of this team and even if we dumped Gio, I think it would take much longer than he has as a Timber because more important than anything, he is eating up a ton of salary cap space to be essentially the 2nd coming of Kris Boyd who just stuck around 4x as long.
I think he's the best we've got, and whatever happens next year is what it is. He was a big part of winning mlsib tourney, so we know he's got the ability. You make great points - he hasn't been effective and I had written him off after lackluster play earlier this year, but I am seeing signs that he is back.
He was a great release valve yesterday. They had the second coming of a Real Madrid counterattack in the first half due to his quick release and then it swung to Asprilla and because Asprilla has no pace he slows it up and the counter is over. Any winger would have licked his chops and taken it to the end line and whipped in a cross, or cut in and hit a shot, or fed the nine coming in for the kill. That was a joy to see the quick passing, and then killjoy.
I think folks don't see what he does. A nine doesn't have to do it all. He is good in the air - we've seen that.
I think you're right in that he would succeed with another forward type - like Fogaca, and definitely Blanco - guys who can get him the ball or he can work the ball to them. He's not selfish or slow with his plays. Granted, he makes mistakes like any player, but I think he gives the team a passing identity that they lack when he is not out there.
I thought his shape and his defense was very good - always making Seattle go backwards. Anyway, I'm all for Boli succeeding, but he's a different type of player than Niezgoda.
Last thing, Timbers didn't lose 4-1 like they did last week and were better than Seattle in many ways, and I think Niezgoda helped play a role in that.
I just can't anymore. Everything says nieazgoda isn't good. From stats to fans watching him, and somehow you keep trying to say it into existence that he is. It ain't happening. Nobody is going to agree with you.
yes the players are to blame for the systemic failures of the club....lol.......
He’s good in the air, when uncontested. Otherwise he’ll get beat. He has a good touch, when uncontested. Otherwise defenders just take it off him easily because he has no strength to keep defenders at bay. He can make some decent passes around the box and usually can’t dribble much. Was he a big part of MLSiB? He scored a good goal vs LAFC and a tap in vs Cinci, but other than that it was Jebo leading the line for us
I only watched about 40 minutes from him yesterday (I had things going on so I missed minutes 40-75, I hope to watch it later) so I can’t comment too much on his game, but for the little I saw from him it was... fine? “Fine” being a small step below “decent.” He definitely looks to have more energy and sharpness than he’s shown all year. And the fact that this was probably his best game in what feels like nearly 10 months says a whole lot.
It doesn’t feel like he’s a threat unless the ball comes to him in a dangerous area. Boli makes more runs in behind, he’s hungrier with his play, he shoots more, he gets involved more, he’s much much stronger, he can dribble and create chances on his own, and most importantly, he finds chances much more reliably. The defenders have to think about him. I hope Niezgoda can continue to improve and proves me wrong but for now I think Boli is the better option
Excellent comment
every striker is anemic in this offense ding dong.
Gio: *plays a bad offensive soccer with zero discernible style for years, literally carried by Blanco's massive testicles*
PTFC fans: "man these players are garbo"
I agree that Evander was not great and had a few lazy short passes, but I think he worked really hard on defense, which was needed since the Timbers spent a lot of time on their own half of the field. The whole team provided a solid defensive performance. Unfortunately, that extra defensive work might be why Evander looked very tired in the final 15 minutes and stoppage time. The team could use a healthy Blanco to replace him late in the game. But right now the Timbers don’t have Blanco, Williamson, Mora, Y. Chara, and Mosquera — all who can attack when healthy. And with Ayala also out as a replacement in the midfield, D. Chara and Paredes have to play the whole game, which they did well on Saturday.
The Timbers lived in Seattle's half in the first half, and I'd say it was more even in the second half. Evander plays up top in the defensive formation and maybe that is too much running for him. The defensive shape seemed to be solid, though, especially with Niezgoda.
I agree - Blanco would have been a great addition.
Overall, the biggest factor for me was not playing anything out of the back. All the ball winning went straight up the field and back to Seattle.
Evander turned it over a lot more than we’ve ever seen him do. He was off. It’s probably the first time he’s played on NFL turf, which may or may not have anything to do with it.
Lumen uses the exact same type of turf as Providence Park. It's worn a bit more because of the Seahawks/Reign/Sea Dragons (XFL) use of the same field, but it's the same stuff as down here.
When was it last replaced? It always looks like total shit and seems like it plays worse than Providence Park.
According to an STH friend of mine, it's going to be replaced after this season. That surface gets way more use than PP's does, so it compresses faster and looks terrible most of the time. The Sounders don't own the building and so don't have a whole lot of say in how often it's replaced, that decision is up to the Seahawks.
I also think the multiuse / multipurpose stadium and constantly washing off lines and putting down new ones is really hard on plastic / rubber / sand fields. There are lots of examples of multiuse fields in high schools, parks, etc., where the lines are permanent and get much less care and attention from a grounds crew - and they hold up for 5-7 years in decent shape. But that seahawks stadium pitch is always (even when pretty new) just thrashed from the over-use and constant powerwashing disruption of the base of the field.
The two greatest things that could happen for soccer in the Northwest is that the money gets invested in a grass pitch in Providence Park and that the Shittle Flounders / Puget Sound Women's Soccer Team move out of that stadium to a place where they can control the pitch and possibly have grass too.
What is Lumen's turf on top of though? Providence Park/Peregrine Sports have made a big deal out of having some kind of e-layer or something. That probably doesn't matter when it comes to how the ball rolls, which may be more about the extra wear you mentioned before, but might make a difference in other respects.
Sounds just like every post you've written every week. Maybe you just saw what you had predetermined you'd see: fogaça is a winger, Asprilla isn't a starter, niezgoda is our best forward, Moreno shouldn't play out wide, etc etc. Cut and paste.
lolololololol
That's fair. I'm gonna give it a rest.
Totally agree about Nathan starting! Don't agree about Goda having a good game. Maybe I just dislike him so much that I miss what he does well. That said, the Timbers need to learn not to expect him to catch up to forward passes because he just can't do it.
They could play to feet - that's a concept;)
Lol you’d have to have players that can pass accurately. That’s not a “Gio Thing”…
Funny part is that most of our mids have passing accuracy stats in the mid 80s (defenders higher, but they gain the benefit of mostly unpressured passes in the back). Niezgoda's PTFC career passing completion is 68% (same as Boli and Nathan, much lower than Asprilla but he is listed as a forward in name only, mostly has been deployed as a MF).
I agree that we give up a lot of dumb balls at extremely inopportune times (final pass. in transition, etc) - and it has been a lot worse this year than prior years with mostly the same roster. We frequently try to force things that are just not there which I believe is because we are so committed to the quick counter as our only offensive weapon that we'd rather turn the ball over than rest and possess for a couple of minutes. That piece of things is a Gio thing - it is because GioBall is defend and quick counter and if quick counter doesn't work, then give the ball up and try again.
Ironic but the team that leads the league right now in passing accuracy is LA Galaxy and have 12 points and a GD of -13 to show for it. The worst team? St. Louis who are actually 2nd in the league on PPG (have only played 14 games) with a +18 GD. Ultimately it is about cashing in on opportunities vs squandering them.
I agree that the passing stats are fluffed up by the constant negative passing. It would be ingesting to see passing accuracy broken down by forward / negative passing, or by defensive/mid/attackig thirds. Some stat that reflects accuracy in various states of play. This iteration of PTFC seem pretty bad when they are on the move - particularly linking series of passes.
It doesn't go into a whole lot of granular detail, but the MLS match page for every game has a basic pass map that shows the overall shape and location of a team's passing. That map for yesterday is here:
https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/mls-regular-season/2023/matches/seavspor-06-03-2023/stats
Hovering over the line will give you a look at passes between the two points on that line.
FBRef also has some granular data about passing, it's not in visual form but the "passing" tab on the team stats page has a lot of info about attempts, completions, pass length, etc that paint a pretty good picture.
https://fbref.com/en/squads/d076914e/Portland-Timbers-Stats
I'm mostly annoyed that all the "good" stats are not available to fans for free - teams and Opta collect waaaaaaaaay more granular info than this but us randos out here in the world don't have access to them unless we want to pay ridiculous amounts for an Opta subscription.
The highlights mention Asprilla several times but Niezgoda nonce, paints a familiar picture.
Evander had great moments, but was also flat-footed several times and just looked worn or uninterested.
I wonder if JDM had played if there would have been any difference, but I'm guessing not really.
Bravo does toe the line with overplaying and giving up fouls, never-the-less, I generally love watching him play and think the Timbers need a hard nose guy out there.
The whole team was just blah today on rivalry weekend, does this telegraph something deeper or was it just an off day?
If I hadn't been following this team since 2001, I'd be a Thorns fan.
Asprilla was terrible - please.
Niezgoda brings a sense of order to the team.
Jaro? That you?
no just a fan of good soccer
Oh burn!
I wasn't praising Asprilla, but Niezwho?
"Niezgoda nonce" ??
Obv the player most mentioned in the highlights was match MVP, everyone knows this.
Classic Gio Snoozerball. I guess it’s good they didn’t give up a stupid goal at the end or whatever.
I was about to say at least they defended with some grit!
Many have said we need players mostly at CB and the 9 and I feel we need depth at those positions mostly CB. Personally, I feel a top flight LW is the priority. With Blanco questionable Loria not giving much and Asprilla and Chara, who will need more rest than his brother at box to box, both over 30, I would focus on left wing. Santi and Evander play off each other well and Mosquera can contribute too but may be gone next year, Im not sure that striker and CB are the top concern.
Yeah, wing play has been pretty lackluster this season. Asprilla has been very disappointing. He’s usually to be a beast in the air, but he’s had numerous headers where he’s been completely free in the middle of the box and he’s mistimed his jump or head snap every time. Loria is who he is at this point, and Moreno doesn’t seem to be as free as he often is (playing with a light injury all year I’m sure is contributing to that), though he’s still one of our best players. Yimmi is great but he’s been injured.
I was gonna say that “I assume we’ll get a DP winger once Blanco and Niezgoda are off the books at the end of the year,” but I’m not sure if that’s a good use of resources with Yimmi presumably still here and Moreno a definite starter. Whether you think Yimmi should be starting next year or not, having two DPs for one position isn’t great roster management
With Evander and Yimmi as the DP's going forward, we can choose where to sign the next DP on the team. If you see Evander as more of a forward, finding a CDM or CB would make sense. If you think of Evander as more a true mid, CB and Striker make sense. But if the FO is thinking of moving on from Gio then it probably makes sense to wait until a new coach is hired to fit what they would want to do. This is an actual reason to either move on from Gio or commit to him through the end of his contract.
For what its worth, I don't think wing is a position of weakness on the team. With Moreno, Yimmi, Asprilla and Loria we have a good stable of players. Asprilla appears to be slower and less decisive, but Loria is a low cost replacement for him. If you think of Moreno as more of a central player, then we do need to find a quality wing.
Has anyone seen the u-20 usmnt play? Man they are fun to watch! I have been watching them for awhile now and that team honestly plays a better system than the senior team. The senior team has better players but the system the u-20 team plays is excellent. The movement, the understanding of position and player. They just got knocked out from the u-20 world cup because of an own goal by a defender.
that is one coach I would love to see Portland go after. He isn't a "big name" but I think he is very attainable. I have heard a couple players say they love their time with the u20 team because they love the way they play. That's a big compliment from a player and I can't think of a bigger one for a coach.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MERRITT (I know he reads these) MAKE A CHANGE AND CONSIDER MIKEY VARAS
I'm with you on the U-20 play. That was a fun watch the past few weeks. The whole U-20 World Cup was exciting, as it looked like teams went out and played.
As much as folks are ready to move on from Gio, I would make a far worse coach, but if I were, I'd be tempted to roll this out:
.......Fogaca/Boli/Niezgoda**
Moreno Evander Mosquera
..........Paredes Chara
Bravo*................................Miller
..........McGraw Zuparic
....................Ivacic
* Y/C accum
** Let's be inclusive
But Moreno and Mosquera aren't wingers! So what? They are dynamic and effective and Moreno can still come inside and play creatively at times.
Ok, got my plastic tarp and shield, fire when ready.
Ah, the fabled 2-2-2-3-3 formation 😂
Just joking, btw. That looks like PTFC’s strongest 11 for sure.
Any thoughts about the Dallas game? Apparently we've only lost to them once, in 2016.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/competitions/mls-regular-season/2023/matches/porvsdal-06-11-2023/
"Portland's scoreless draw against Seattle on Saturday was the third time it has failed to score in its last four regular season matches" + Last 3 v Dallas: L,D,D
Signs are unclear
My favorite AI says
Portland Timbers -115
FC Dallas +290
But my expectations are rock bottom, per recent performance. I'm actually gonna make it to this one, let's hope that doesn't jinx the team :/
Since we don't have an open thread, it sounds like Messi is going to come to MLS and play for Miami! I'm so bummed that we don't play them this year and probably won't next year as well. That would have been a treat for fans!
I would be heavily skeptical of Messi actually playing on FieldTurf, given the history of how elite European players have adapted to playing here. I do wonder whether, if that is the case, MLS/Miami would require him to travel with the team anyway, and take up a spot on the bench anyway, being that he's a guaranteed draw wherever he goes.
Also: This Messi is not in any way peak Messi. He is not going to run circles around every defender he sees at this point in his career. I kinda see his MLS tenure playing out like late-period Thierry Henry at NYRB; he'll stay fairly close to the center of the field and pick his spots, he'll conserve his energy 99% of the time but go all out when he senses a scoring opportunity, and he'll score a fair bit. But he won't singlehandedly revolutionize how Miami plays, or elevate the level of the league as a whole, at this point in his career.
He may not be peak Messi, but he is still a premier player. I would hope that he would travel with the team even if his minutes are managed. To be honest I am curious to see how a player of his caliber plays at the MLS level. He has shown that he is still an effective player, but he won't have the quality around him that he is used to. That being said, I expect to see Miami attract a number of players to their squad over the next couple of years to get the opportunity to play with him. I do expect to see more interest in MLS due to this.
I get the feeling that he genuinely loves to play soccer, and will certainly want to be on the pitch.
Why is Messi gong to Miami? I can think of a few reasons - dominating the pitch, liking the weather, etc. - but it sure can't be the money. Especially considering what his Portuguese colleague is making in Saudi Arabia, the guy can surely acquire even more untold riches elsewhere.
The Google "Bard" AI tells me
Lionel Messi is coming to play for Inter Miami for a number of reasons.
To experience a new challenge. Messi has won everything there is to win at Barcelona, including 10 La Liga titles, 4 Champions League titles, and 7 Ballon d'Or awards. He is looking for a new challenge and believes that Inter Miami can provide that.
To live in Miami. Messi and his family have been looking for a new place to live for some time. They are attracted to Miami's warm weather, beaches, and lifestyle.
To be part of David Beckham's project. Beckham is a co-owner of Inter Miami and has been a long-time admirer of Messi. He believes that Messi can help Inter Miami become a top team in MLS.
To grow the game of soccer in the United States. Messi is one of the most popular athletes in the world and his arrival in MLS will help to grow the game in the United States.
Messi's arrival at Inter Miami is a major coup for the club and for MLS. It is a sign that the league is on the rise and that it is now a destination for top players from around the world.
I am completely fine with him going to Inter Miami. I guess the questions are, will the Designated Player rules change to accommodate his salary? Will his salary be paid by all the MLS teams? We'll see.
The DP rules won't need to change. They bought down one of their existing DP's to create a spot for him. Gregore is injured, so they bought him down below the threshold, which means Messi is a DP just like any other.
"Will his salary be paid by all the MLS teams?"
No. It will be paid by Miami's ownership. He will also apparently get profit incentives from Apple and Adidas (not subsidized by other teams, separately negotiated), and an equity stake in Inter Miami.
I'm just trying to see if there's a maximum salary the DP can go to. There have also been rumors (unconfirmed) of other clubs also paying his salary.
We'll see. I hope you're right. But if there is a sticking point, it's not like MLS won't introduce a new rule to let a player sign with a team they want them to sign with.
There isn't a ceiling, other than what a team owner can afford/wants to pay - that's literally why the DP designation exists. A DP's salary only counts as $651K for the purposes of the salary cap, but, for instance, Xherdan Shaqiri makes $8.1M, Lorenzo Insigne makes $7.5M, and Chicharito makes $7.4M. As long as a team has a DP slot open, or can buy an existing DP down to create an open slot, a team can pay that player whatever they want/can afford.
"There have also been rumors (unconfirmed) of other clubs also paying his salary."
I mean, I get that Messi is a draw for MLS as a league, but why would another team in the league pay, or want to pay, the salary of a player that will be competing against them? Messi will be well taken care of by Inter Miami and external sponsorships.
I reckon he is so f*ck off rich the salary will just be a formality to him.
So there are 18 games left in the regular season, 10 of which are home games.
Today's clusterf*ck puts us in 11th place with 17 points, 3 shy of Minnesota's 20 and the playoff line.
Is it possible yet to determine how many home games we can afford to lose and still end in the top seven?
They have given up so many points already this year, and it seems very reminiscent of last year, that I don't see any reason why it will get any better. Gio really can't get the personnel combos right.
It's weird that they drew today, and I am pissed, but Seattle was 12 year old dog breath bad and the Timbers acted like they couldn't play with the ball. Beyond disappointing.
Since the Timbers joined MLS in 2011, the average season points total for the last team to qualify for the playoffs in the Western Conference is 48. The Timbers thus would need 31 points from those 18 games, or a 1.7 PPG pace, to hit 48 and be confident of a playoff spot. They're currently playing at a 1.06 PPG pace.
So yeah, they've got a lot of work to do.
The line has been lowered though. I guess, on a linguistic technicality placing 8th or 9th isn't "in the playoffs" as those qualify for play in games (for me that is the same thing).
I suspect the line to make the top 9 will be closer to 40, top 7 will be 46-48.
yeah, we'll see what happens - that average does take into account the different number of teams in the conference and the different number of teams who made the playoffs in any year, though.
I suspect you're right and the number will be lower, although I'm not sure how much.
But this also is an excuse for me to yet again mention my idea for the playoffs, which I've thought would be a great idea for years. MLS should, at the beginning of every season, set a per-conference points total, and any team meeting or exceeding that total makes the playoffs. That total could be based on the prior season, some sort of average of past seasons, or whatever.
Some seasons that might mean 9 teams make the playoffs, some seasons 6, and there'd need to be a way to account for odd-team playoff years and who fills any necessary vacancies, but I've always thought that'd be a fun way to determine playoff eligibility.
It should be like Europe. There should be no playoffs to determine league champions. It should be based on points and that's it.
That would force owners to be accountable for the product they are putting on the field. Playoffs give owners an excuse to go cheap, not invest in the team. If they know they can skimp into the playoffs and just get lucky on the day they could win a title. There is no incentive to put out the best product you can.
Playoffs are just a cash grab and that's it. The fact so many teams make the playoffs tell you just that.
As for tournament play, that's what the open cup and champions league are for. Or whatever the new one is. Those should be separate and should be concluded at the end of the seasons
The unbalanced schedule and soon to be 30 team league that only plays 34 games (even if you went to 38 like Europe it would still be unbalanced) means that will not happen. Relegation isn't coming any time soon either. There would have to be massive financial support of relegated clubs. You don't invest half a billion dollars on a US based 2nd tier team in the 3rd/4th most popular in person sport that still has low TV viewership.
I just don't think the American sports psyche has the space to care about 2-3 games for the worst 3 clubs in the league trying to avoid relegation and maybe a game or two in a close year for the best teams too (where the other 15 teams mostly no longer matter). American sports fans have a hundred plus years (except baseball before 55 years ago - something not many people remember at all) of having high stakes games for the best teams at the end. That is who we are.
I like the European system for European leagues. I like the playoffs for MLS. Playoffs are fun! The playoff tournament is essentially a second mini-season in which randomness can rule and odd results are a feature, not a bug, and I like that.
And unless MLS commits to playing a schedule like Europe's, there's no way to make a championship based solely on points any fairer than a playoff system, because strength of schedule would be as big a factor as quality of team.
"Playoffs are just a cash grab and that's it."
Literally everything about top level sports is a cash grab. American sports fans are culturally accustomed to the idea of a playoff tournament at the end of a regular season, so I see no need for MLS to do things differently. I may quibble around the edges - I don't think nine teams from each conference need to qualify - but I don't have a problem with MLS using a playoff system overall.
"fittingly produced the first regular season scoreless draw between the Timbers and Sounders in the MLS era."
I think ever? Not just MLS?
This was a nationally televised game that is, if you ask the two teams' supporters, the biggest rivalry in MLS. I don't think the rest of MLS fandom would agree with that, based on this display. Not that that matters, but this game was...bleak.
Bleak in so many ways, except Timbers were most dangerous team and are still unbeaten at Seattle in 7 years. But they simply can’t finish. So many chances wasted. Team not on same page.
True, but being the "most dangerous team" in this particular game is about as big an honor as being the best surfer in Wyoming. Both teams put up an xG of 0.3, and while the Timbers outshot the Sounders 11-5 none of those shots were particularly dangerous or threatening.
I mean, I'm happy they didn't lose, and a point isn't the worst outcome, but as you say, this team is not on the same page right now, and I will just add that to the list of things I blame the coaching staff for.
Halftime xG was PTFC 0.16, Flounders 0.04.
Both teams were so bad that the Timbers couldn't even double that terrible number and Shittle could only draw even with them? Teams putting out xGs of a third of a goal are hard to watch, obviously.
The coaching staff should be worried about employment.
This is the worst start through 17 games in mls history. Worse than under Spencer, and that's saying something. They fired him, let's see what they do with gio.
Spencer's team had 19 point in 17 games, 2 more than Gio's.
He’s under contract until end of 2025. Would Paulson OK buying him out?
That's the big question - does MP still give enough of a shit about the Timbers to do what's needed and clear out the coaching staff? It wouldn't cost much in the overall picture of Timbers finances, and it desperately needs to happen. I guess we'll see, but I think I know the answer, and the answer I think I know depresses me, because from where I sit the answer is status quo.